SAM-e (S-adenosylmethionine) for depression?

[happytoday]

I am now almost 4 mos. clean of an oxy addiction where I was using around the clock for close to a year. While I work the program of NA, I am feeling so much better and happy to be sober today. However, I deal with a feeling of the blahs, on an almost daily basis.

Another addict, who is now my sponsor, in recovery, suggested I watch my diet and exercise to battle the blahs. While this always seems to help, it still does not totally cure that down feeling that I experience so much.

I do not feel my depression is major, yet I do experience it to some degree. I am now taking SAM-e, an Amino Acid based "over the counter" supplement. I swear it really is helping me a lot!

My question: What are the good and bad of taking SAM-e, if any bad exists. And, can this really making me feel as good as it seems lately. Any thoughts?

[AmberHunter]

SAM-e is one supplement that i believe does good. but even if it is a placebo effect just be grateful that you are feeling better!! lol!

if it weren't for the expense i would have tried it a long time ago! but having read your post i may have to go out and buy some and give it a shot!!!

peace,

amber

[Hopefulone]

SAME is a wonderful andidepressant.  In Europe it is only available by Doctor's prescription, but here it is over the counter. It is expensive but worth it, and also helps with chronic pain.

I take 400mgs twice a day, that is the dose that worked for me, and the dose the clinical trials were done on in Europe.  I can attest that it does work. It is light sensitive, so get the kind that comes in blister packs. So does 5 HTP, an amino acid that is a precursor to seratonin.

By the way everyone, I'm day 2 off of my suboxone detox. I took it for 5 days, and pretty much feel fine today.  I did have trouble sleeping but took some trazadone that worked.  The suboxone is a miracle med if you stay on it very short term. Last time I tried it, I stayed on it over a month and the withdrawals from it were so bad I relapsed on hydro.  I"m totally amazed and proud that I"m 2 days clean from opiates. Now comes the hard part, staying clean!  

I do have to get off the valium, but I only took that 'cause the Docs said it would be best for my back spasms, benzos aren't fun for me, but I still want off.  I take 10mgs every night and have been waiting to be opiate free before tapering off the valium. If anyone has valium tapering advice, I'd LOVE to hear it.

It is a miracle that I'm clean from opiates with virtually NO withdrawal symptoms. I was taking 200mgs of oxy a day.  Then when I ran out it was about 200mgs hydro a day, then I went straight to the suboxone, starting with 4 mgs a day for two days then tapering down to one a day.  I felt a little tired, and I don't have all my natural energy back (I barely remember what that even feels like) but it made it doable, as I don't think I could hack cold turkey again. I"m going to NA, have a sponsor, and pray that just for today, I keep making the choice to stay clean.

Karen

[vikequeen]

I am so envious of anyone who can get a hold of suboxone. It seems to not exist here in Md. In my area anyway I live in Montgomery county supposedly one of the richest counties in the USA but only a handful of Docs are lisenced to RX it and then you get into the whole search for a pharmacy thing. This drug is like the holy grail for me and I will not give up my search but its frustrating for me to hear how its a miracle drug for everyone but me !!!!!!! wahhhhh I will stop my whining now lol Baddgirl

[grandpabill]

just wondering....any withdrawal effects if i stop taking  ritalin cold??Taking 100mg a day for 3 months...thanks all

[Jennibean]

The other thread was full sorry to break in here. Just commenting on some of the Suboxone comments. Indeed you must taper off of Suboxone when you are done and nobody is even telling me that there will be no type of withdrawal from it but what my Dr did was he got permission in writing from some patients that he was treating and put me in touch with them. Several had already tapered off the Suboxone and in the literature and what I got from these people is that the withdrawal from Suboxone is basically a joke compared to oxycodone etc..If you have never experienced withdrawal from a opiate that was a full agonist(oxycodone etc.) then I suppose you could think suboxone withdrawal was bad. But Suboxone is also an antagonist and blocks certain receptors that I think are responsible for alot of the withdrawal we go through. I think the most important thing to remember here though is that as bad as withdrawal is and as much as we hate it most of us have made it through withdrawal more than once the hard part is later being able to break your habits and stay off. For me Suboxone is giving me the time I need to work on breaking those habits. I am not shoving pills in my mouth several times a day, instead just once in the morning, therefor I am not watching the clock anymore I am not having to rack my brain constantly thinking about what Dr to call to get enough and going to see 10 different Dr' every week. Using pills is very time consuming so I am learning to use that time differently while at the same time the Suboxone has me feeling great and before the craving for the Drug was so awful after withdrawal was all done that I didn't seem able to break all of these habits long enough before the craving had me back on it. I just really think if you look at the big picture in my case at least the Suboxone is doing so much good. Also there will never be a Magic pill and we probably don't deserve a magic pill, that would mke it too easy to quit anytime we wanted and we would probably be more likely to relapse knowing we could easily get off at any time. I am just finding that life is good and most of all I feel good about myself and I hope that because the Suboxone is taking the craving away completely that I will have my head straight and realise that I just don't want to go back to that life. I could never stay off of the pills long enough before to come to these conclusions. My Dr will wean me slowly and from what the other patients have told me is that the way I felt the first three days on Suboxone while the percocet was leaving my system is sort of what the withdrawal from the Suboxone is like and while I didn't feel great and I was tired it was nothing like my skin crawling, no energy, diarrhea, sweats, insomnia etc that I have when I come off of percocet cold turkey or with the help off joke meds like clonidine. They did say the worst withdrawal symptom from Suboxone (buprenorphine) was fatigue for a couple weeks. Also I have used methadone for detox three times and I can say for sure that I feel and felt so so so much better on Suboxone, no comparison for me. Anyway enough abut that, I just wanted to share my excitement and also make sure people know that it isn't just about getting through withdrawal it is about taking your life back and Suboxone giving you the time to do that without those cravings ruining it every damn time!!! The other good thing is that Suboxone blocks certain receptors so if you want to relapse you have to wait at least 48 hours before you drug of choice will even work! That means no quick stupid decisions or instant gratification. You have to plan a relapse and hopefully by the time you have waited 48 hours you have changed your mind!

Jen

[mrmichael67]

Thank you for your post.  I was just trying to put up an experience one person had as we really don't see anyone commenting on it from the withdrawal perspective.  Well, that was number two that I know of.  The butterfly is the other one I know of and she didn't have rave reviews either.  Everyone that I see has either just gotten on it or are still on it.  Well, the few that are on it here.  I think bup in any form is an excellent alternative and I am dying to see some feedback from someone experiencing withdrawal from it.  If you could get those people here and posting, that would be great.  I think you are right about people not experiencing bad withdrawals from an agonist.  If they don't have much to go on, then they will think they are going through hell.  It really could be a big nothing.  This one guy I know at the clinic is contemplating going on it as well.  I am hoping to get some valuable info from him as he is a heroin addict with a good tolerance.  So, that will be the big agonist test for me.  Plus, he has been on mmt for almost six years now.  I will definitely share the info if I ever get it.

[rodewc]

I haven't see you post in a long while. I worry when that happens. All ok? rwc~

[suummerrwwinnd]

Please help!!!!I left 6 day detox on 4-20-03 & immediately took my klonopin and ambien to sleep.  Have discontinued, Ultram,& Clonazepam 11 days ago.  I am still taking Ambien at night.  I have been having severe anxiety since before I quit taking the klonopin. I am also on neurontin and last night my psych. put me  on trileptal.  I'm going crzy and can' take anymore.
Thakns

[Curtisman12]

i am a viet vet who has been strung out over 30 yrs on and off. while in 12 step recovery i needed bak sugery. after docs refused percoset etc. i went to the street. it was horrible and never again. i spent 7 yrs. on 80 mgs. of mmtp per day in new york city in 70s. that stuff id bad. suboxone has saved and given life back to me. jeff

[Hopefulone]

Hi folks,
Michael, I am currently on day 3 of suboxone withdrawal, so I can tell you first hand what it feels like. I have gone cold turkey in the past so I do know how to compare the two.

I took the suboxone for only 5 days, from a 20 to 30 per day norco habit.  My Doc told me to expect to be on it for 2 to 3 weeks, but I truly felt ok after the 5th day, so went off.  For the first day, I felt pretty much ok. Just a little fatigue. Yesterday and today, I am experiencing INTENSE fatigue. Last night, even with trazadone I could not sleep a wink.  Basically this feels exactly like the post acute withdrawal lethargy phase that we go through after cold turkey. Lethargy and exaustion and difficulty sleeping.  Doc said that I could go back on the suboxone if this happened, but that eventually no matter how slowly I weaned this part is unavoidable, so I'm sticking with it till my body's ability to produce it's own endorphins and neurotransmitters comes back online.

So, the bottom line is this.  Stay on suboxone long enough to get the original opiate out of your system and then get off as soon as possible. Anything longer than 2 to 3 weeks will cause a worse suboxone withdrawal syndrom (syndrome) (I've been there, was on it a month once and going off it was so bad that I relapsed).

It is easier, and feels like magic when you are on it, but stopping is not a free ride to feeling fine and normal again. The lethargy phase sucks big time, but I'm at work, dragging myself around, but somehow managing.  

Any questions, feel free to email me at ***@****

Karen

[Erika_Ann]

Hey----what do you think about that for my depression? Having been on almost everything Im really needing to try something new. Ive been on paxil cr now for awhile and it does NOTHING. Should I try this? Im asking your opinion cause I trust your judgement!
Thanks!!!!!Erika

[mrmichael67]

Thank you for your input.  I do hope things start to come around for you.  I do see from time to time where someone posts about buprenorphine as if it is some sort of magic bullet or something.  Seeing as Suboxone has just recently been approved this past October by the FDA, not many have commented here on what withdrawal from it is like.  People like you, sharing your experience, allows others to get a realistic view of what happens and what one can expect.  I am also going to state, again, that I AM pro bup.  It is an excellent alternative (for some)and any input helps those contemplating its use.  Thanks again.

[Hopefulone]

Thanks for your support Michael. I may not sound like it, but I'm REALLY needing kindness and support right now. I feel so alone in this despite NA. I have to trust that I will feel better eventually, yet tears come easily, I'm hypersensitive to whatever anyone says, and to top it off I have very high chronic back pain.  I wish I could take pain meds responsibly but have tried several times, even giving the meds to someone else to dole out as needed, but I always found the bottle.

I also feel such intense shame for my relapse, which doesn't help matters any. Ugh.  Please someone tell me I'll feel better again someday! Even if it's not true! lol

Karen

[Thomas03]

Thanks for a look at the other side of the suboxone experience.

You mentioned that you were ashamed at relapsing. That is the single most disturbing statement I hear from recovering addicts. Shame is society’s solution to problems it doesn’t want to take the time or effort to understand. Shame kills. It never heals. Shame is hatred and violence disguised as morality. And it has no constructive role in your recovery. Hang in there. You’re among friends who understand you and are proud to know you. Let us know how things go in the next few days.

Thomas

[mrmichael67]

I have had two lumbar fusions and have chronic pain as well.  I take methadone for it.  I can't take meds responsibly either and went to the clinic.  Don't worry, there is plenty of support here.

[Hopefulone]

Thomas thank you.  I have read your postings on shame in the past and so agree with you. And when I was clean I repeated it over and over. But in relapse, the fear and shame of telling anyone was bigger than I could fight during those hellish months.
It was shame that kept me in relapse for so long. If I had just TOLD someone, and reached out, rather than isolated, maybe I'd be singing a different song now, rather than feeling 90 at my spritely 40.

How are you feeling these days? I lurked for a while and read that you were clean for a few months. If you are still clean are you feeling ok yet, sleep, mood, etc?  My first time I felt fine in about 2 or 3 weeks, but I'm worried this time will be longer.

Again, thanks for reaching out. I need it and am not ashamed to admit it. I will contemplate your words on shame and do my best to let my heart believe them, 'cause my head knows you are right, but my heart........doesn't yet.

love,
Karen

[mrmichael67]

How does the suboxone work for the pain?

[Hopefulone]

I had a fusion too. And it didn't work and the pain is strong. An 8 out of 10. I know it warrants treatment and pain itself is very bad for the body, but I don't know how to use pain meds responsibly.  Does the meth get dispensed to you daily or do you get to take it home? My Doc recommended meth once I've been off everything for a month or so, when we see what my true unmedicated level of pain is. He says my pain may be intensified right now due to the withdrawal and lack of natural endorphins.

But I'm so reluctant to take any opiate again,(ignoring the fact that I'd KILL for one now to take away my discomfort, lol)  as I never want to go through withdrawal nor screw up my brain. My doc says that I can screw up my brain and my life if I live in this much pain all the time and he'll work with me to find a solution.  Man it's rough, huh? I"m sorry you have the chronic pain too. There are so many of us who are addicts and chronic painers. That's how I got hooked. Never had an interest in any drug until this back problem started and I got my first taste of hydro. I was in love with the world, until tolerance kicked in and I needed it to just stay out of wds, and it wasn't even working for pain anymore. It's a dark, dark path when misused, as I did.

love,
Karen

[terter]

It doesn't seem like it but you'll get through it. Whats your story? I'll listen if you need to vent. You don't sound very good right now but there is an end to this. seems like forever but not really, almost everyone here has gone through this in one way or another. Please write back I'm worried. Thanks TER

[mrmichael67]

Yeah, I know what you mean.  I was on percs for a little while and got off of them.  Then about a year later, my back went out for good and that was it.  The first doc butchered me and the rest is history.  I had the second fusion with rods and screws (pedicle screws) to just make everything stable and he tried to decompress the nerves again.  I have a ton of adhesions in my lower back just from the surgery that is squeezing my nerves.  I just couldn't be responsible with my meds.  I was taking a months worth of ms contin in two weeks.  I was prescribed 540mg a day.....three 60mg tabs, three times a day.  So, double that and that was my daily intake.  I took oxycontin or duragesic in the between period at an equianalgesic dose.  When I went into the clinic, I was an absolute mess.  I had run out and I was in really ugly withdrawals.  Things are much better now.  I haven't had a prescription since last August.  Now, I get anywhere from good relief to decent relief from the methadone.  I also haven't been in withdrawal since last August.  That is so liberating.  If I hurt, it is usually at night and in the morning before I take my dose.  About an hour after I take my dose, the pain goes away for the most part.  I get the shooting pain down my leg still, but the aching in my hips goes away.  It creeps back at night sometimes and sometimes it doesn't.  I have good days and bad days.  If you are going to be hurting for the rest of your life, you might want to consider it.  When I was on morphine or oxycontin, I was very lethargic and had no zest for life.  I really didn't do much or want to.  Now, I get out much more because I want to.  The urge to do things has come back.  I am not going to get into it on here, but if you would like me to email you a page about dole and nyswander and a study they did, I will.  It is very interesting and I have found it to be true.  I felt I had to go to the clinic just to get my life straightened out and I need to take something for the pain.  I just flat out couldn't function without it.  And, I have tested the waters too to see where my pain is at.  And, after about the tenth doc said I am looking at pain for the rest of my life, that sold me.  I have no intention of hurting like that.  Not if I can help it.  And, the way I am doing it is the only way I could see doing it responsibly.  It has to be responsible.  It couldn't keep going the way it was.  I was going down in a hurry if I didn't straighten up and fly right.  I am not saying everyone should go to a clinic, but I just felt it was what I needed to do at the time.  And, it certainly wasn't a hasty decision.

[theGolden1]

Dear Summer ... try to research some of the meds your doctor put you on. Go to WebMD.com and type the names into the box on top. It sounds like alot of meds but you are working with a doctor. It sounds like he is changing you too quickly. A week makes a big difference. Tell him you want to slow down a bit .. antidepressants take 3 weeks to work ... anyway, I will pray for you ... ***@****

[theGolden1]

dear mrmichel ... I just had some xrays of my back and it showed degerative disc disease. After reading up on it, they say it is a part of the aging process and is not always painful. I do not have lower back pain, but sometimes when I try to lower my dose of ultram, I get a pain in my upper back between the shoulder blades. What can I do to prevent this condition from getting worse? Also, I'm looking for a way off ultram ... a 5 day dose of something. I'm thinking maybe methadone would be good. Would I be hooked after 5 days of a very low dose? I'm sorry to hear what happened to you. It's so scary. Can anything be done about scar tissue? I had surgery on my hands and as soon as I began to heal the scar tissue formed and I had to massage and massage for 2 months until it melted back into my skin or whatever. I thought it would never end. I went to hand therapy for months. I hope things get better and better for you .... Goldie

[mrmichael67]

When I get insurance again, I am going to see a very good pain doc where my mom works.  He does a procedure called lyses of adhesions with a Racz catheter.  That should help some of it, I hope.  Methadone will not get you dependent in five days.  If you are going to do it, get on it and get off it.  DO NOT mess around with it.  Five days should do you just fine with the ultram.  But, keep it at that.  It would take a while to get dependent, but I would rather see you use it for what it is intended and then get away from it.

[Lil Chilly]

In response to the question of "Suboxone Withdrawal" I would like to tell you my experience with it.  I have been on16mg daily sometimes more for 4 months.  I tried to taper and quit.  When I did I experienced withdrawal equal to my withdrawal to heroin.  It was awful, and it lasted alot longer too.  With the heroin I was sick for about 5 days and slowly began to feel better, not altogether right,but better.  With suboxone, it just continued on and on for a month, it seemed there was no end to the withdrawal syndrome.  So to all of you out there I suggest a short term on the suboxone!  Otherwise you might end up regreting it.  There is no quick cure really and you will experience withdrawal from any opiate abuse, but this particular withdrawal from bup is rough, let me tell you.  I wound up back on junk and am now on suboxone, again... I think I will just take the long term maintenance with it.  I need to build the courage to try to get off of it again... Good luck to all <>< Peace