STILL trying to help a Vicodin addict

[jam]

I live with someone who is battling Vicodin addiction (see my posted a question regarding this about 1 month ago) He still claims that he isn't using, however,he still goes through the process of obtaining scipts both via doctors and the Internet. He says that this is how he "copes" He goes throught the motions, but once the prescription comes, he throws it out. He has gone to psychiatrits and has been put on anti-depressants, but he doesn't follow throught with any kind of counseling because he doesn't feel like that helps him, He thinks this coping game of his works for him because the end result is that he isn't using (which he swears to). He won't tell me that he is or has received prescriptions despite the fact that he PROMISED to be honest with me in order to rebuild the trust that his lying for a year destroyed.  Well, he has now decided that he can't be honest with me because he want's to do this on his own and not let me be involved, even though he knows that I need his honesty to make our relationship work. Where to I go from here???

[gee]

Hi Jam.  I'm really sorry for what you're going through.  I've been on the other end, I was addicted to codeine, and I can assure you that even though you promise to be honest and tell your loved one if it becomes a problem, you don't.  You don't because you know that they will make it stop and you don't want that.  

It's a hard thing to stop, but it can be done.  The key though, is he has to want it.  You can try to help, but he has to be the one to do the work.  I also know from experience that, even though your intentions are the best and all you want is to help him, the feeling he'll have is resentment.  

Maybe you can get him to read this board.  If he's still getting scripts, he's probably not throwing them away.

Sorry to be so direct, but unfortunately, that's the reality of addiction.

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

Gee hit the nail on the head.  I too was the one in the relationship using, and I said whatever I knew my fiance wanted to hear in order to do exactly what I wanted--keep using without her interference.  As someone much wiser than me once said, don't look at what someone SAYS, look at what they DO.  From his behavior he is clearly not ready to quit.  Sadly, most addicts will not get help until they either hit rock bottom or have enough negative consequences to REALLY want to change.  Until then there is NOTHING you can do for him.  What you must do is protect yourself (your psyche) and for that, I would strongly advise you to consider Dr. Steve's advice.  Good luck.

[Rebecca]

i have been in such a relationship, and belive me they have to want it bad to quit. This relationship left me in depression because i used all the energy i had in making it work and at the end (of course) IT DIDN T. Get out fast before the same happens to you!, at the end its not your problem to solve.

[jam]

Although this piece of our relationship is challanging and has exhausted me mentally, I hate to think that there is no other solution besides getting out of the relationship. This is truely the one area that has presented us with problems. He is a wonderful person and besides this problem, I couldn't have asked for more in a person. I understand that addiction and recovery are extremely difficult for someone to go through,and makes a person do and act in ways that they normally wouldn't.  I just want to do what I can to help him and hopefully get past this and move ahead with our lives. I know that recovery is a life-time committment, I just want to be able to trust him again. Maybe that will never happen, but I am willing to try as long as he is willing to help as well. I really don't want to give up, but lately I'm afraid that is my only option left.

[Joe]

Jam,
Go to Al-Anon before it is too late and your resentments and anger destroy your relationship. I didn't, and I lost my wife who was going through recovery. I did not learn how to cope with a recovering addict and I let my anger destroy the relationship. She of course did have a big part in all of it.You need to express how you are feeling with others who have been there. Do not keep his using a secret. Talk to your friends, family, and by all means, other co-dependents in Al-Anon. Get it out in the open and a huge burden will be lifted from you. You need to learn how to act and what is and what is not acceptable behavior on your part. GO TO AL-ANON MEETINGS. Go through the checklist that Al-Ano has on the web titled Do You Need Al-Anon. I finaly did after one year and checked off 22 of 25. A year earlier, I never would have admitted any of it to myself.

One other word o wisdom, even if your addict were to stop using today, his addict behavior will continue. In my case, I did not see any real changes in her outlook on things except that she was no longer using. Complete recovery can take many years. Remember, addicts minds are fried and they may never behave as you and I.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I think you are right on about the addict's mind being fried and may never be right again.  I come from a long line of addicts on both sides of my family which are ironically all in the medical profession.  I grew up with a lot of alcohol and pills and thought it was normal.  I remember experimenting with all of it as a child fourty years ago.  My father was an alcoholic and my mother used barbituates and benzos.  

I just seem to get addicted to everything from speed to opiates and alcohol.  My life has been less than substandard as a result!
Right now I am fighting alcohol again with cirrohsis of the liver and it seems to be a losing battle.  Some people get cancer for no reason and are able to deal with it and get better.  With me it has been a thirty year battle that is seemingly unending and hopeless.  Is there any hope that I will lead a "normal life" ?  

John B.

[Brighty]

I come to this forum alot looking for answers, information and support. I generally get all 3. I do feel very inadequate that I am not an addict and maybe have no qualifications to reply to anyone who asks for help. I live with an addicted adult child. I can only give you my opinion. Yes, there is much hope that you can live a normal life. I think maybe you will have to define normal but I think you simply mean without your addiction controlling you. Again yes, because addiction is not reversible but it's really "healable". One thing I see more and more is that people are trying to "cure" the addiction and may not know if they have other mental health conditions that fuel the addiction. Sometimes the use of chemicals does indeed fry the brain and creates the other mental health problems that really complicate the control of the addiction. I know this because now that my daugher is on medication to control mood disorder she is able to focus on recovery. She was certainly not bi-polar before she started using drugs. The doctor thinks it may have been something that was already covertly developing or even created by chemical abuse... but its still a problem. Maybe it will go away someday if she can stay clean and maybe it will require lifetime medication. But until this was determined through a thorough mental health evaluation we were beginning to fear she was a hopeless case. So you may want to consider if you have undiagnosed mental conditions, or other imbalances in your physical chemistry. There is a book that has been around for years called "You Can Heal Your Life" by Louise Hay. There are also lots of other motivational or inspirational tapes and books out there to assist. I will pray for you John. Love, Brighty

[Brighty]

Your comments were right on target. Like myself you have lived with an active addict and there are no words to describe the irrational behaviors that are ever present. These drug related behaviors are so ingrained that it takes years of recovery sometimes for them to go away, even long after the person is not using. To me this was the most important thing you mentioned to JAM because often it seems like if your loved one would stop using then everything would get better. WRONG !! JAM, this is a spiritual illness and the physical is the easiest part to cure. Some of us have long term commitments to a child, parent or spouse that we knew long before they became addicted. We want to see that person back again. If you are just starting with someone who has been addicted since you have known him then you may not have a clue who he is... will the real "JAM's boyfriend" please stand up ?? You are a wonderful loving person. It's hard for me to believe you can get what you deserve from this relationship until you see him well into recovery. I could not abandon my daughter... that is for life unconditionally... but if she had been someone else I would have given her to God and gotten on my way. Prayers to you and your boyfriend.

[little d]

Hi my name is little d (Don B) and I am an addict in Texas. Was surfing the net and found this spot. Seemed like a spot to stop off at share. I am an addict in recovery. I guess as far as quantity goes I was worse than some (took 30-50 Lortab-10) a day. I have found in my experience that the drugs were not the problem, but my mind was. It takes a lot of courage to admit that you are an addict. Not something you want to put on a resume or share with your girl friends parents. I am married and my in-laws know so I really do not give a **** now. Recovery is not so hum and glum provided it is just that recovery. If you stop with the thoughts of restarting - or I can over come this you will fall on your face. If liver damage does not kill you the pressure you place on yourself in your addiction will. That pressure is there 24/7 and your despiration will only increase. As far as my family, they did not start to recover till I did. Some of my old behaviors my wife still has. Please contact your local 12-step meetings (AA, NA, etc) Sorry to sound like captain recovery. I was surfing for LAMM use in Lortab addicts and came across this. Pretty neat. See ya little d

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

Thanks for sharing your experience.  Good luck in your continuing recovery.

[janie]

Hello

    If there are anyone out there that can talk to me about my husbands  Lortab/Vicodin addiction PLease email me at ***@****  I am wondering if this could make him sterile!  And if not could it hurt my baby if I was pregnant

Please respond!!

[helpme000002]

Hi everyone! I am an addict and have been for a minute. Let me just tell you all that this for me is the worse thing in the world I could have done to myself. I hate myself on a daily basis and would do or give anything to have the old me back! I am so terrified of the withdrawals though that I keep right on abusing prescription drugs. I don't use because I want to or because I like the way the make me feel. I use because I am too big of a chicken **** to go through the withdrawals again. I went about 4 days without any and on the 4th day I woke up in complete hysterics because I had already been in bed 3 days and all I wanted to do was get up and get moving and take care of my family responsibilities so what did I do? I started taking the damn drugs again, just to feel normal! Now here I sit feeling like **** and taking these stupid pills and for what? They don't help me feel better they just allow me to get out of bed, I am severely depressed I can't seem to get anything done, I can't clean or pay bills or anything else. Hell even the act of brushing my teeth is enough to make me want to crawl under the covers and sleep for ever let alone cooking dinner for my family. So if anyone out there has any advice for me PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!!!! HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ga Guy]

You have posted to a very old thread. I am going to provide some general info, but please post a new question and ask again there. You will get more responses. Sometimes these older posts go ignored. Also, tell us more about what you're taking, how much, how often, and for how long. Below is some general information. Put any questions you have in your new post..

This is a work in progress...something I've been working on off and on for the last couple of weeks. It's not considered complete, but has lots of info from lots of sources. If any of the "old timers" have anything to add, let me know and I'll add it to the document. I hope to use this to post a general "how to" every couple of days or so.

Listed below are suggestions for detoxing and quitting an opiate addiction. They are just suggestions compiled from the detox plans of people that have gone through cold turkey detox before. They are just that, suggestions, and any detox plan is best when done under a doctor's care. Consult your doctor before trying any of the suggestions below.
This is prewritten for anyone who is beginning, or planning on beginning, a cold turkey withdrawal to opiates. This includes drugs such as tramadol (Ultracet and Ultram) codeine (Tylenol #3, #4), Darvocet, Hydrocodone (Vicodin, Norco, Lortab and derivatives),  Oxycodone (Endocet, Percocet, Oxycontin), Morphine, Demerol. Fentanyl, and Dilaudud. There are many other opiates not listed, so if you don’t see it listed, you can still use these suggestions if it’s an opiate based addiction. None of these apply to benzodiazepine based addictions. These addictions should never be dealt with by going cold turkey. Always consult a doctor for a detox plan for benzos.

First of all, opiate withdrawals are uncomfortable, but rarely life threatening. You may think you’re going to die, but most of the withdrawal symptoms are just very uncomfortable. If possible, take some time off work or schedule a week or so in order to fully detox. You will honestly not feel like doing much anyway. Opiate withdrawal symptoms usually start 12-24 hours after your last dose. But, the timing of withdrawal symptoms depends upon the drug taken, length of time you’ve been taking it, and how you react to medications. The physical withdrawals usually last 3-7 days, with days 3 and 4 being the worst. Once again, this is all dependent on the person. You can expect these symptoms. Dilated pupils, diarrhea, runny nose, goose bumps, abdominal pain, stomach cramps, sweating, agitation, anxiety, nausea, vomiting, leg cramps, general aches and pains, and sleeplessness. This list is not absolute. You may experience all of these symptoms, only some of them, or other symptoms. Again, we are all different. Below is the famous Thomas Recipe. It gives some general information along with supplements that help with the withdrawal symptoms. The only thing I would add to this list is a blood pressure drug named clonidine. It effectively lowers the blood pressure and lessens many of the withdrawal symptoms. Most any doctor will prescribe it if you’re honest as to why you need it. Discuss dosages and frequency with your doctor.

Thomas Recipe:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (immodium) (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:
Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5. During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.
Use the Imodium (immodium) aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it. At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help. With breakfast, take the mineral supplement. As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

[noblindfaith]

I personally know somebody in the exact same boat as you. Im not sure if you got any help sence last year, but i still want to help if not. Let me just start off and saying your a wonderful person and you have the capibitly to change. I understand your afraid of the withdraw symptoms but sweetheart at first its going to be hard, but at the end of everything its going to be worth it. I think you should get a small job if you dont have one. So you could start helping your family with the bills.
Than youll be able to feel like your acomplishing something, its a good step. It`ll distract you and you wont have so much free time thinking or wanting the drugs.Stopping cold turkey is very hard but isnt impossiable. Keep trying the drugs are temporary. You feel good when you take them but how long does that last? At the end of the day you hate it. Please i beg of you dont stop trying. I hope the best for you and if you ever need anything or just somebody to talk to. Dont be shy. If anybody else needs to talk and tell me about there issues with vicodin or any other kind of drug im here..

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