PLEASE READ! IMPORTANT!
Listen I have'nt posted much, but, I have been reading daily.This Suboxone is serious stuff, no joke. I'm posting this because I've seen alot of interest in SUBS lately. When I first heard of it I reseached it for at least a month before I even asked anyone about it.Mostly I've seen misinformation on the forum here mostly. I'm not gonna debunk all the myths but here's one (the life of suboxone is 37hrs) That means as you dose it compounds in your system, buils up as you dose. please get all the info you can. If I offend anyone or anyone wants to dispute or argue over my post, dont waste your time or mine. i'm not doing this for entertainment or pleasure. Those of you who know me and do give proper advise on subs and taper know how serious this is. So, PLEASE don't guess at answering posts just to posts.Let people get the right answers. The slogan for this post is (IF YOU DONT KNOW, DONT TELL) Thenks Teddy
ps. my name is teddy, and I approve of this message!
anyway we can be more specific? i'm gonna be taking suboxone soon. btw, i've been taking methadone for about a year now, i'm down to 15mgs a day, started at 60. suboxone cant be any worst than methadone. if it's at least a little less difficult to come off of, than i'm game..
Hey Jess, If I came across as putting down suboxone I'm sorry. That was'nt my intent. Jess I've been watching your struggle with meth for a while now, I think sub is purfect for you. You'll definately lose that up and down you get often, you know what I mean. Recently I've been helping a friend switch over. Like you he tapered the meth down to 20mg, Thurs he did his meth in am, then on fri at about noon he started the sub at 8mg, dude, he never had a single w/d symtem. Last night he called and said he felt great, he said fri was nothing, sat, sun, mon no w/ds. and last night he said he even got wood now. you know what iI mean. almost 4 yrs hes been on meth, He couldnt stop thanking me, His 5 yr old son said Dad is full of energy, frisbee, baseball cut grass, he hasnt sat down all weekend, except to sleep.So go for it brother.
Coolio, I was just trying to dispell any myths that people start or continue, I'll tell you whatever I know about it, but if I don't know something I'm not gonna guess at it, Thats what I've been seeing alot of guessing and misinformation. When I said SUBOXONE was serious I meant it in a good way. Serious enough that you must read as much as you can about it so when you do give facts about it you can at least spell it right. How you doing on the sub? I'd like to know. Teddy
Magi, How are you, Whats your dose now? I know what you mean about the sideffects. I'ts bad when it affects your brain the most. Like registering to vote for OBAMA, ARE YOU SERIOUS, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING! YOU BETTER GET OFF THOSE SUBS NOW! THEY'RE CLOUDING YOUR JUDGEMENT! QUIT NOW SO BY THE ELECTION YOU CAN COME OVER TO THE REAL TEAM!!!! I'm joking ya Obama is fine with me, I just couldnt resist the ribbing. It's your right so vote for your choice, everyone has to VOTE. Teddy
I guess I agree here and disagree. Everyone on here will have different opinion about sub. I don't think people are purposely trying to mis-educate on Suboxone. I think they are just stressing their own views/experiences. For me, I try not to comment on anything I don't personally have experience. Like, even if I have "heard" of it, and what it can do to you, I still wont comment on it unless I have personally had experience with it.
So I understand your point here. However, Sub can be very very beneficial if USED PROPERLY. That is key. You get people that come on here who buy Sub on the street and complain about its massive withdrawal. So you really can't go by everyone. Any dr, should tell you that punch that Sub packs. And it can be a very hard and heavy W.D. But if its used correctly and tapered off correctly, then it can be very useful. Yes, its a powerful drug, but when used correctly your not abusing now are you? I mean, you can abuse sub, but that;s up to the addict NOT the drug.
Just my thought on this...
And I have used Sub - Successfully (dr.prescribed) and not so successfully (on the street)...
Great post - we all should continue to post more info on sub routinely. As someone taking it I try to give what I know and my experience to others in the hopes of helping people in the same situation. Unfortunately there's not an abundance of clinical/scientific research to dispell or confirm 'myths'. The best knowledge we have comes from the people who have taken it, as most doctors are largely misinformed. Although people can react differently to a medication and it's side effects, some aspects of suboxone usage/side effects are pretty uniform. Making the decision to start suboxone/subutex and setting up a plan is very serious and people should not take it lightly. Suboxone can be a great tool to help people in their recovery, but it is not a cure all and comes with risks and side effects that people should be informed of before they start treatment. Hopefully more people will read this post and ask questions.
Sarah - Depending on the length of time someone is on sub there can absolutely be wd symtoms after stopping or tapering.
He Got "WOOD" Now if thats not an incentive........I don't know what is......lol.
I totally agree about the mis-information. I think people are sometimes more concerned that a post be answered---even if the info. is half-a$$, and that is wrong. But, everyone has an opinion, but facts are facts. I've read things on here that literally scare me. Not much you can do about, except to always recommend someone do their own research. Esp. if they are not under a doctors care. We all know sub is out on the streets and people are getting a hold of it and self-medicating. I think there are people out here that have good knowledge, but some......uh, not so good. ...i'm rambling........
I couldnt agree more lifesaride...i never comment on anything unless i have personal experience with it...there has been some nonfactual information given out..and i think its quite dangerous if they arent informed themselves...theres nothing like experiencing something yourself to gain that knowledge. unfortunately people think they can read it and pass on info, and it just doesnt work like that, IMO. when it comes to suboxone nothing compares to firsthand experience.
making yourself as informed as possible before you make the decision to take the suboxone route and this also goes for anyone thinking about methadone-which having been on it myself, i could never recommend it for anyone looking to eventually get clean, its just too darn hard to get off, but i commend anyone who has done it,....i wouldnt change my decision to take this route in a minute...or i would still be trying to figure out how the hell to get off methadone...which was nothing but hell anyway i tried...suboxone gave me that chance and i have also have been very successful at my taper so far, without a problem, while learning all i can with counseling to change the addictive behaviors that i lived with for so darn long. and i really think WHERE you get your information makes a huge difference too, there are 3 websites i depend on for information...learning how suboxone actually works in the brain compared to other narcotics and that it cannot be compared to any other narcotic as it is not a full agonist like all the others are... and why the naloxone is in one and not the other and the ceiling effect it has, there really is a lot this medication does that many are not aware of...its a lot of information to digest in just a few days, its something you should research, read and ask people that are on or have been on sub about their experience with it, time should really be put into the research of sub... as no 2 stories are the same...it seems to effect everyone in much different ways. i have had no side effects or bad experiences with it to date, except during my induction stage, because i transitioned from methadone, it is NOT the same as an induction from a short acting opiate at all, but others have not had the problem i did during a transition from methadone and that is something i have heard and read a lot about from personal experiences. some have had worse experiences than me, others had no isues at all.
and i truly believe aftercare and "during' care is a MUST for long term success. get to the root of the problems as to why and how we turned to addiction to begin with...
its the most important thing you can do for yourself...
and i dont think doctors are misinformed, i think it may have a lot to do with what i mentioned - about no 2 stories are the same and you just cant predict how someone will do with suboxone, no one can predict what will happen for the individual.
i researched it and talked to my sub doctor for about 3 months before i made the decision and appointment to go for it, and to this day i am glad i did...
i just wish everyone the best of luck here...
The subutex has been working great for me !!!! I only do 1-2 mg a day and i have had no cravings at all for pills. I also get wood and am using the bathroom way more normal....you know what i mean.... I just dont know if i should taper off and quit ...or just stay on a small amount for a long time.
well are you confident you wouldnt relapse?
thats what i base my taper on...and how much more support and therapy i might need...
IMO, for ME...i would rather stay on a low dose for life than ever go back to where i was headed in life, but thats for me, and a personal decision you will have to make for yourself...but i wish you luck whichever way you go...
Sub is a great medication if you use if as a tool to get you of not for long term, MY OPINION I been on in for over 6 months and had a relapse of 2 weeks about 2 weeks ago back on sub and back to my great life, what I found out is that when I went back to using the pills I didn't like it at all I was put back because I had a tubelpregnancy the of course started to abused them right away, I hate it everything so I went back to sub after 2 weeks.
To my sub is a great tool to get your life back in track.
I am in the midst of helping someone withdraw off of sub....she is hooked...bad...it has taken the place of her DOC...not everyone wants to be without a narcotic and may need it for life...others do not want to be on something for life...it is their decision..and what they can handle psychologically....but really...How do you know who has tried sub or used it for detox? not everyone talks about every aspect of their life on here...many are here to help people and not to share the details of every up and down they have experienced in their life such as using suboxone...i think any information is good information if it is experienced based/and also people who know and understand medications as well and understand the mechanisms of how they work..if u are lucky enough/ or rephrase that Unlucky enough to have both, knowledge and experience/then u can help alot of people and understand what they r going thru as well
A question, as I'm a newbie here. I've been given suboxone several times to help detox. My experience was I got quite high off the sub, even a tiny amount. My dr. says that's unusual.
Is he right? I understand it's a serious opiate so of course it's addictive, but is it really so rare to get high from it? It was extremely frustrating to me, because I thought I had found an easier way to detox, rather than yet another substance to get high on. And I know it has helped lots and lots of people. I'm not complaining--it's just my bad luck--but I am curious.
This is a great thread.....it is so important for people to share their experiences, so that others can make an informed decision about Sub.
I agree that the Sub docs have a BAD habit of seriously downplaying the w/d's. A few have actually told me that there would be NO w/d at all...lol. Give me a break!
I also think it is worth mentioning that people reading about a med (or anything really)....need to remember to try to allow themselves to have their OWN experiences to an extent and not try to be overly influenced either way...good or bad.
Knowledge is power, and whether it be Sub, Methadone, a new antidepressant med...what have you....the more one can educate themselves, the better position they will be in.
amen...google, google and google..ask eeryone u can..learn about any med u take be it a blood pressure med or a pain med...in this day and age there is very little reason to be uneducated about a drug u take..especially if u have a computer...there is the pharmacist u pick up from as well who know lots...just goota ask..and learn
and yes it is possible to get a buzz "jump" off of sub..especially if u r a low quantiry user..i have seen people on 40 mg of lortab a day go on sub..almost for sure they felt a buzz..a 140 mg a day oxy user I helped felt a buzz off 4 mg of sub...it depends and everyone is different
Annie, trust me you didnt get (high) on suboxone. This is exactly why I started this post. It is not possible to get high on Suboxone. Incase you didnt hear that, You cant get high on Suboxone. Not to get technical, suboxone is a compound med, besides pain reliever, and a couple other ingrediants, it has a blocker in it to keep you from getting high.
And any information is good information is not a good idea, look I'm not talking about personal experiences here, I'm talking about blatant bad info, like sub last 72 hrs, not even spelling it right, now I'm no english major but from the first time I looked it up I read enough to at least know how to spell it, and disspell all the myths about it also.
Incase no one heard me Suboxone is serious stuff. So take it serious. And use it to get to the WHY your useing and abusing.
and u r right to do so...and after this i will follow ur lead, sad...it never turns into anything useful...these discussions are very negative part of the forum as a matter of fact...why even bring it up? most members on here are not on sub...it is almost as if those that are have a complex and i dont understand why! let the people choose what they want to do...there are plenty of sites for them to go to to learn about it without people advertising how great it is here..if someone asks...tell them what u know and tell them to educate themselves..why tell them it is better than honey and gives people a boner!... educating people, verses encouraging people to do a drug are 2 different things...if someone came on here and started pushing trams to taper with or replace their DOC, or to use methadone to replace their DOC or taper with...everyone would have a cow! sub is another addictive narcotic...no matter how u slice it..if someone wants to stay on a narcotic for life...i do agree it is better than using off the streets or taking 40 pills a day...I just dont agree with a forum like this that is supposed to be for helping people with addiction...trying to push it on people cause they can get a hard on in a few days...that is just a bit out of the "helping people get clean" aspect that the forum was meant to be......sorry...no offense to anyone but we all are allowed to stae how we feel
Thats what I mean SO I GOT SOMEONE A LIL IRRATATED. Well no surprise there. But that boner comment was meant to go to the person it was addressed to, See, I followed that persons up and down over the last 6 months and knew that might cheer him up a bit. The misconception now is that sub gives you a boner thanks to your interpation of that post. WRONG AGAIN! See that person happens to be on methadone, and most people know isnt very good for sexual drive. The fact that suboxone puts you into a more NORMAL state was my point.
By the way didnt I begin this post by saying this was not up for debate or an arguement.
THIS IS ABOUT GETTING SERIOUS ABOUT LIVES, I'm am not advocating anything other than not to misinform and educate. Teddy
Buprenorphine is different from other opioids in that it is a partial opioid agonist3. This property of buprenorphine may allow for;
less euphoria and physical dependence*3 (states less)
lower potential for misuse*3
a ceiling on opioid effects*3
relatively mild withdrawal profile*3
At the appropriate dose buprenorphine treatment may:
Suppress symptoms of opioid withdrawal2
Decrease cravings for opioids2
Reduce illicit opioid use2
Block the effects of other opioids2
Help patients stay in treatment2
this is from naabt.org...the bible for sub users and the pharmaceutical site that sells the drug...true it has LESS euphoria than a full agonist like oxycodone...but it is a partial agonist and a high is produced especially for those without an extremely high tolerence..it is a partial agonist but a strong narcotic...it is a scheduled drug..which means a controlled substance
Lisa, hey there, miss ya, Your methadone struggle is just as valid and your posts and helpfulness on this forum is exactly why I started this post, we need more of it. Cuz you know how serious this is and fighting for life is valid. It rips my heart out reading some of these crys for help posted here. life is just a ride! how you gonna ride? Teddy
LOL..I said I hate getting involved but since I was on methadone i feel like I do have something to say..lol just haven't been feeling strong enough lately for the "drama'..but at every methadone clinic they are now pushing sub..they did at the one I was at..so to my mind..it spells danger..the big thing I keep hearing about sub..is IF you use it just so..it will be ok...if not..look OUT..the meth clinic that I went to just pushed suboxone because it cost 150/wk rather than the $80 for methaodne..they promised (in their own brochures) that you will be free and clear in 12 weeks...another lie..because most everyone that posts about it is still on it and the very few..like less than 1% have gotten off it..I just don't get it either...
no hate mail please..just my opinion..I did my methadone time and suffered..(not from you worried)
I know that even methadone no matter how bad it screwed me up..has it's place..as does sub..I am very glad that you posted this..you know i think you rock..lol oh yeah..and I am riding on that softail..lol
Lisa why no mood? SO, I'm doin 1) 8 mg a day now, I'll cut it by half tomorrow and we'll see what happens. In the am. I'll do 1/2) 8mg and try that or a week, maybe I'll be off by the end of the month.
i hope so..i have been posting here with u for a long time...i know we dont communicate much but i do hope the best for u...believe it or not...I know more than u think about all of this...but it was in my past and i dont want to go there....and i want only the best for u and i see u post about trying to go down on ur dose here and there......and i want u to do that...do it slow...and when u r ready ...i did not mean anything personal nor did i mean to target u at all...u r doing what u have to do the best way u can do it...life can be a real trial sometimes....and we gotta play it by ear
*i'm replying to teddy from way back in the conversation, sorry to confuse.*
i didn't think that you were putting down suboxone, i was only asking to be more specific because i'm really trying to get all the information i can this time. when i was giving methadone for the 1st time, i jumped off the mountain and then realized i couldn't fly. with sub, i wanna at least have some wings before i jump. at this point, i just want to be rid of it all. but i've been saying that for about a year now.. so i'm cossing my fingers with the sub... -jesse
Thank you so much for your replies! I was dumbfounded to read above that I was not getting high on suboxone. Really? Sure felt like a high to me...first kinda warm and happy, then my problems don't matter anymore, then I'm just plain euphoric. If that's not high, then I guess my vocabulary has some problems.
It makes sense that the Narcan is there to block a typical high from one's DOC. And I guess also from the opiate component in the suboxone. Just doesn't work that way for me, that's all. Makes it a little bit harder than it might be.
Hello all; I read this thread with great interest and wanted to add my own comments about the effects of Sub. I am currently on day 8 since I last took a 'crumb' of Sub. I used it to help kick a ten year 140 mg/day Oxy addiction. I do acknowledge that there are people on this site who believe that it is necessary for them to stay on Sub for many months or even years. For those whose DOC was heroin or Methadone, perhaps long term use of Sub is appropriate. However, if anyone doubts that this is one major powerful drug, then I must respectively disagree with them. This stuff (SUB) is still kicking my butt - after 8 days --- and it does NOT clear the body in 37 hours -- - that is only the half life. You guys who studied chemistry know that means only half of it is elliminated in that time and then it takes another 37 hours to clear half of what's left and so on. Worried878 is exactly right in her posts -- this lady speaks from knowledge and having helped many people who thought Sub was going to make W/D's disappear altogether ---- It doesn't ----- Here again is my opinion - If anyone thinks that they will not suffer, they are badly wrong ---- it is part of getting clean -- I still, after 8 days, have periods of sweating, hot/cold, weakness, etc. Sub was a tool I used, but not a magic bullet. Now, the hardest part of getting through this whole nightmare is the lack of energy - lethargy. I have been faithfully taking the Thomas Recipe and Amino Acids --- However, there is one more thing that I found that helps me more than all of the vitamins combined ---- The name is Provigil. It enhances Dopamine receptors in the brain and gives a non-caffeine type boost ----- You can get a prescription for it - very expensive -- about 6 to 10 bucks per pill but worth every penny. You can also Google it and find it on line. I love the fact that people on this site like Avis and Worried878 and several others have beaten their addictions and still come here to offer their help. May I also state with absolute certainty that there are also pharmacists and nurses who lurk on this site and offer advice from time to time. I know that many health care professionals also have been bitten by the same demon of addiction and know personally what everyone is going through - -- they have a whole career to consider but still return to this site to encourage others. Anyway, enough of my bloviating. Bottom line - Sub is a tool and in 99% of cases should only be used in a 21 day period of tapering. Anything longer only changes your DOC. IT IS VERY ADDICTIVE. All the best to my fellow travelers on the road to recovery. Blessings - - ochealed, formerly ochooked
NAABT stands for The national Alliance for Buprenorphine Treatment it is an information site and also has a forum where you can speak to actual members that are on it or have been on it...it does not "sell" or even mention the maker of Suboxone or subutex, which is Reckitt Benckiser...they are not even mentioned on naabt...and it is not just the "positive" side, if you go there and read the forum, you would see this. i only go there for information, as it provides the best possible information available on every aspect of how suboxone works, how subutex works, chemical make up etc...they even have the clinical guidelines that doctors use available for you to see and read...all of the TIP sheets are available in PDF format.
another good information site is SAMSA which stands for Substance Abuse and Mental Health Administration. which is put out by United States Department of Health and Human Services., tons of information, and not just about addiction...
there are plenty of sites i use FILLED with information to learn all you can before you make any decisions. i suggest to go and read them ALL before any informed decision can be made...nothing can be more important than to educate yourself FIRST not after...
I couldn't agree more that Sub is only a "tool" on the long road to recovery. If there was a magic "pill" to kick a habit, there wouldn't be such an addiction problem in this world! Right?
Aftercare is SOOOO important, and as long as someone enters in to Sub Rx with full disclosure of what is to come...then they can make an educated decision to take it or not.
Sadly...I don't think nearly enough Sub docs and/or clinics tell even a 1/4 of the true story. An addict takes the first Sub....and for most...it wipes away the horrid w/d's and takes away the cravings. Problem is....down the road..you're still stuck suffering in one way or another. I know some people have come off Sub with minimal w/d's, but those people, IMO..are definitely in the minority.
It just comes to facing the cold hard truth either NOW or LATER. Coming off any addictive drug is going to s**k! Not many ways around it!
Also...for some people...like ochooked mentioned.....it may be a good trade off, even if Sub becomes a long term treatment. If you're talking about decades of addiction and many failed recovery attempts...taking a low dose of Sub daily may truly be the lessor of two evils.
But again...I just wish that every single person considering Sub could dome to a site like this and get the REAL story from people who have, and ARE living it! Just like the Tram debate....if people had been given the whole story behind that med...and KNEW that it could cause a horrid addiction and awful w/d's...I betcha a LOT of people would have never taken even one pill. :0(
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