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Scheduled to start suboxone
Hi all- I've been reading through the threads and doing some general research on suboxone because I've made the decision to begin treatment on Tuesday. I've had an opiate addiction for about 12 years and have gone through several WD's. It's funny how we wouldn't wish that agony on our worst enemy yet somehow, some of us turn back to old habits leading us to face the agony again. I'm trying suboxone because I have clearly failed with my other attempts. I'm scared, nervous, excited and anxious all at the same time. After care has already been arranged. I'll see a cognitive therapist and attend NA meetings. Digging up the root of my addiction problems terrifies me but then again, those deep feelings could be the very thing that has been pulling me back into this lifestyle.
I understand that I will need to be in mild to moderate wd when I first start suboxone otherwise it will only intensify it to the millionth degree. My appointment is scheduled for Tuesday morning at 9am, today is Saturday. I don't typically take MS Cotin 30mg extended release, however, if that's my only option, I'll do it. Well that the case with today and tomorrow. I don't know or understand how half lives work so I was hoping someone might be able to give me some general information on what I should and should not do. My plan was to take two of these tomorrow morning (Sunday) and that would be it until I see the Dr on Tuesday morning meaning I will go all of Sunday night and all of Monday with nothing. I have to work on Monday which isn't optional but I really fear withdrawing through work. Is that enough time for the MS Cotin to leave my system? If so, is taking the same dosage (2 30mg extended release) on Monday morning an option? Being a full time working single mother is not something I can necessarily take time off of, nor is it something that can be done during wd. I ideally want to make this as easy of a transition as possible so any advice/feedback is welcomed.
Thanks everyone!
I understand that I will need to be in mild to moderate wd when I first start suboxone otherwise it will only intensify it to the millionth degree. My appointment is scheduled for Tuesday morning at 9am, today is Saturday. I don't typically take MS Cotin 30mg extended release, however, if that's my only option, I'll do it. Well that the case with today and tomorrow. I don't know or understand how half lives work so I was hoping someone might be able to give me some general information on what I should and should not do. My plan was to take two of these tomorrow morning (Sunday) and that would be it until I see the Dr on Tuesday morning meaning I will go all of Sunday night and all of Monday with nothing. I have to work on Monday which isn't optional but I really fear withdrawing through work. Is that enough time for the MS Cotin to leave my system? If so, is taking the same dosage (2 30mg extended release) on Monday morning an option? Being a full time working single mother is not something I can necessarily take time off of, nor is it something that can be done during wd. I ideally want to make this as easy of a transition as possible so any advice/feedback is welcomed.
Thanks everyone!
Something in me told me to check for responses, so here I am.
Thanks Mary. I think the bigger issue is that there appears so be a division on how people think about suboxone. If you look at some of the responses, some were short and to the point about whether or not it helped them. I think that was done for the sake of not having a debate about it...but I could be 100% wrong. Weaver was really helpful though and I do appreciate that.
and IBKleen- thank you. You are definitely one of the names I recognize. And hey, don't bust my chops about being 1% off...I was close! I completely understand why it would be hard to build relationships and I commend you for sticking around to provide what help you can to others, even if you never talk to them again. I think that speaks volumes about your character and it's one to admire. I'm sorry if my waling away scared you. I think I just had my hopes up a little to high. I'm doing really good though. I've started my treatment, I'm getting back into the hang of doing daily things that I completely let go of, I'm seeing a cognitive therapist, I've gone to a meeting every day this week and I'm just enjoying my outlook on life right now. I found an online support group for people who have used or are currently using suboxone treatment and I think it makes it easier for me. To your point, I guess I wouldn't want anyone who hasn't used that method to give me advice. The community is great, they have long time members like yourself and it's good to hear from people in all different stages of treatment. I suppose my previous post was a bit immature, my apologies! I still do wish everyone the best though and I still would even if nobody responded :)
Thanks Mary. I think the bigger issue is that there appears so be a division on how people think about suboxone. If you look at some of the responses, some were short and to the point about whether or not it helped them. I think that was done for the sake of not having a debate about it...but I could be 100% wrong. Weaver was really helpful though and I do appreciate that.
and IBKleen- thank you. You are definitely one of the names I recognize. And hey, don't bust my chops about being 1% off...I was close! I completely understand why it would be hard to build relationships and I commend you for sticking around to provide what help you can to others, even if you never talk to them again. I think that speaks volumes about your character and it's one to admire. I'm sorry if my waling away scared you. I think I just had my hopes up a little to high. I'm doing really good though. I've started my treatment, I'm getting back into the hang of doing daily things that I completely let go of, I'm seeing a cognitive therapist, I've gone to a meeting every day this week and I'm just enjoying my outlook on life right now. I found an online support group for people who have used or are currently using suboxone treatment and I think it makes it easier for me. To your point, I guess I wouldn't want anyone who hasn't used that method to give me advice. The community is great, they have long time members like yourself and it's good to hear from people in all different stages of treatment. I suppose my previous post was a bit immature, my apologies! I still do wish everyone the best though and I still would even if nobody responded :)
Virgo, I am also sorry that you felt no one responded. There may be several things going on.
One, statistically only 1% of the members here stay here. the remaining 99% get on with their lives or relapse. We will never know what those two categories are.
Two, it is slow here on certain days of the week and definitely slow on the weekends. People are not ignoring you--they are living their lives.
Three, people who are not on Suboxone or who have not done the program don't post. Praise The Lord for that one. Would you want someone to comment who has no experience? I wouldn't.
Last, your waling away is your disease talking and that scares me. You may not know what I mean by that and I hope you don't find out because you will be in for a long battle. I hope you come back and get the support from the good people here.
One, statistically only 1% of the members here stay here. the remaining 99% get on with their lives or relapse. We will never know what those two categories are.
Two, it is slow here on certain days of the week and definitely slow on the weekends. People are not ignoring you--they are living their lives.
Three, people who are not on Suboxone or who have not done the program don't post. Praise The Lord for that one. Would you want someone to comment who has no experience? I wouldn't.
Last, your waling away is your disease talking and that scares me. You may not know what I mean by that and I hope you don't find out because you will be in for a long battle. I hope you come back and get the support from the good people here.
Sorry you feel so unsupported ... this site can be slow @ times. It seems to me you got lots of great responses. I hope you'll keep posting.
This line for "support" is disappointing to say the least. I understand that some of you who have been around for years (and I know some of you have been because I recognize the names) see people come and go on a daily basis. They pop in asking for tips to withdrawal with as much ease as possible and then they drop off. I'd guess that 2% sticks around....if that. It's probably hard for you to build relationships based of that alone. I wanted to be apart of that 2% but as I can clearly see, I'm just one of the thousands upon thousands who have posted in this forum and my story is no different than the rest. Frankly, it's too cold here for my liking.
I wish everyone nothing but the best with either regaining or maintaining your sobriety.
Goodluck~
I wish everyone nothing but the best with either regaining or maintaining your sobriety.
Goodluck~
Hope that you are feeling ok! You're doing great with your plan to reclaim your life.
Keep us posted, good luck!
Keep us posted, good luck!
Hey everyone-
Just wanted to let you know that I had my induction today. It's the first day of the rest of my life and I am pretty freaked out about it!!
Just wanted to let you know that I had my induction today. It's the first day of the rest of my life and I am pretty freaked out about it!!
I was coming off 200mg of methadone, so my experience was way worse than what it would be like for you. I felt like I had gone through the acute withdrawal, vomiting, severe cold sweats, delirium, uncontrolable shakes, etc., by the time my sub taper ended. I started having PAWS after that, couldn't eat, diarrhea, insomnia, mental fog, low energy and motivation. Methadone is way worse of a detox. If I where to guess about hydros, it would be like you made it through the first week and then pick up the withdrawals from there. Dr. Scanlan at Palm Beach Outpatient Detox Center has a good suboxone article at the bottom of his web page. He prescribes subs for 1-3 weeks, he doesn't prescribe it long term. He has found that strong aftercare is the key to recovery and he himself is an addict. Your last sub dose is in your system for 21 days, so a week on a low dose of subs is usually sufficient to detox from hydros. He uses a 3 week taper for heroine and methadone. I think the best thing you can do is try not to anticipate too much, that makes it worse. If you do decide you need subs for longer than 21 days, I suggest you talk to your doctor about being on as low a dose as possible. Consider that 1mg of sub is similar to 40mg of morphine or 60mg of hydro. You where taking 200-250mg of hydro and 4mg of sub is similar to 240mg hydro. Subs build up in your system over the 21 days it takes for them to leave your body. I would discuss this with the doctor and make sure he understands that you want to be totally clean, not increase your opioid intake. To describe how strong they are, I was at 200mg of methadone, last dose was 160mg, and 8mg of subs made me feel fine for 24hrs, especially after taking them for 3 days. I am not telling you how to use the subs, but giving you some science and experience to equip you for your appointment. Let us know how it goes and what you decide.
Everything you've said thus far makes total sense and I truly appreciate your honesty. You give me hope! Of course it was a little bit of a let down to hear that you still had withdraws even after the 21 day taper. Mind if I ask what you experienced? I'd rather be prepared, ya know?
Today was the last day of taking any pills and I didn't take nearly enough for a "high", just enough to keep the full swing of withdraws away. I'm already uncomfortable and I know tomorrow will not be any fun but in the bigger picture, I found myself contemplating on taking more for one last hurrah but every time I felt tempted, I came here instead and now I've made it to where they are no longer accessible...ever. If I learned anything through my many relapses it's that the mental side is much harder that the physical side. Without that willpower to push through, I'm nothing so today is as good of a start day as any. I already know that tomorrow will be he**, especially because I'll have to go to work but I'm doing everything I can to stay focused on today and deal with tomorrow once it's here.
I know there is a lot of controversy around subs but for me, someone who has relapsed time and time again...it gives me hope. It has to start somewhere....
Today was the last day of taking any pills and I didn't take nearly enough for a "high", just enough to keep the full swing of withdraws away. I'm already uncomfortable and I know tomorrow will not be any fun but in the bigger picture, I found myself contemplating on taking more for one last hurrah but every time I felt tempted, I came here instead and now I've made it to where they are no longer accessible...ever. If I learned anything through my many relapses it's that the mental side is much harder that the physical side. Without that willpower to push through, I'm nothing so today is as good of a start day as any. I already know that tomorrow will be he**, especially because I'll have to go to work but I'm doing everything I can to stay focused on today and deal with tomorrow once it's here.
I know there is a lot of controversy around subs but for me, someone who has relapsed time and time again...it gives me hope. It has to start somewhere....
So now you know the pros and cons of subs. They saved my life, but there is a chance you will be stuck on them for a long time. I did the 20 day sub taper and it gave me the mental break to set up aftercare and get my affairs in order. It did not prevent withdrawals, but I had the mental strength and support system to help me through the withdrawals when the subs where gone. I don't think there is a way to avoid withdrawals entirely. As long as an opiate or opioid is blocking the brains receptors, that part of the brain doesn't start to heal. Subs are a partial agonist, so some of the healing begins, but complete sobriety is the only thing that forces natural brain chemistry to activate. I usually don't recommend subs for people addicted to hydrocodone. With proper aftercare, I feel that a taper is an easier option. I believe that if a person continues to relapse or is on stronger opiates, subs are a good option. Even with the sub taper, I had to rely on my support to get and stay clean. If you need a longer time to work on the whys of your addiction, then a period of time on subs can be helpful. Another thing I noticed, I didn't realize how much the subs effected me until I was off of them. Subs block the emotional center in the brain, I could feel that I was still detached while on them. If you choose to do a short sub taper, you won't form a new addiction and the subs leave the body slowly preventing the rapid ups and downs of fast acting opiates, but withdrawals will happen eventually. I came real close to taking subs again, but I stuck with my plan and am glad I did. This is truly a personal choice. I will support you no matter what you decide. Don't be scared but determined, a positive attitude goes a long way. Now you are equipped with knowledge and will have some good questions for the sub doctor. I hope my experience helps in some way.
I don't have personal experience with suboxone, but I was in group therapy where the majority of people there were on it. I saw the changes in so many of them, from the time they came in, to the time they had weaned off on it. They came in with their lives completely destroyed, and with the help of the group, education, and one on one counseling, they got the tools they needed to stay sober after they came off the subs. Of course, some people relapsed, but the ones that were committed to sobriety have been successful thus far. It was a miracle for some people, who never dared to believe they could escape opiates.
I feel bad even saying chiming in, because I have never used subs myself, but I have seen some positive results in friends who are now in recovery.
I feel bad even saying chiming in, because I have never used subs myself, but I have seen some positive results in friends who are now in recovery.
I don't have a long post...all I gave to say is I owe my sobriety to suboxone...it was a miracle worker for me and I recommend it highly. This is my opinion and experience only....
Aftercare is important. But so is cutting all sources. As you know, even with some clean time - as you're working to understand the whys of your addiction - your head will start talking to you and any excuse will lead to relapse if meds are available. A highly stressful situation is not a reason to use; it's an excuse that your addicts brain latched on to. And finally, you can't keep your addiction to yourself. Tell your secret - a trusted friend or family member. You'll need support for on going recovery.
If subs help you through detox, then great. But once it's over, if you don't do anything different this time you will eventually relapse.
If subs help you through detox, then great. But once it's over, if you don't do anything different this time you will eventually relapse.
Ok so I went over and read some of the threads under Suboxone including FAQs and other people's experiences. There definetly seems to be more negativity around it, however, one poster mentioned another site where some posters flock to because this approach worked for them. There, I saw alot of positive stories. So where does that leave me??? Scared Sh!tless! Ugh...here I am living in the what if's again. I hate wishing I never got myself here...it does nothing but tick me off.
Anywho- So from what I gathered, subs basically mask the majority of the DOC's wd's because it is an opiate itself....minus the high. But it's a double edge sword. Because it's an opiate, you're body becomes dependent which is why they suggest the 21 day taper method.
Hear me out and let me know what you think...If the "normal" wd from norcos/perks/etc. is 5-7 days...then couldn't I just take the subs for 2-3 days? I read that the life of it is around 36 hours and that each dose stacks. This probably makes no sense but if I don't ask and get feedback, I'll always wonder about it. By the time the 2nd or 3rd day of subs wears off, the inital DOC's wd's would be ending, right? And 2-3 doses of subs wouldn't create a physical dependence, would it? Clearly, that's either too good to be true otherwise others would do it or I'm just making myself look stupid with this type of rationality. Hmmmmm....thoughts anyone?
Ps: I've relapsed before because of several reasons. Several times because I couldn't bare the wd's and then once, when I actually had some clean time under my belt, I relapsed in a highly stressful situation BUT I didn't have after care at that point. Regardless of how I get there...aftercare is already arranged and will be used to the fullest.
Anywho- So from what I gathered, subs basically mask the majority of the DOC's wd's because it is an opiate itself....minus the high. But it's a double edge sword. Because it's an opiate, you're body becomes dependent which is why they suggest the 21 day taper method.
Hear me out and let me know what you think...If the "normal" wd from norcos/perks/etc. is 5-7 days...then couldn't I just take the subs for 2-3 days? I read that the life of it is around 36 hours and that each dose stacks. This probably makes no sense but if I don't ask and get feedback, I'll always wonder about it. By the time the 2nd or 3rd day of subs wears off, the inital DOC's wd's would be ending, right? And 2-3 doses of subs wouldn't create a physical dependence, would it? Clearly, that's either too good to be true otherwise others would do it or I'm just making myself look stupid with this type of rationality. Hmmmmm....thoughts anyone?
Ps: I've relapsed before because of several reasons. Several times because I couldn't bare the wd's and then once, when I actually had some clean time under my belt, I relapsed in a highly stressful situation BUT I didn't have after care at that point. Regardless of how I get there...aftercare is already arranged and will be used to the fullest.
Kyle brings up a good point, make sure you are clear on how you are going to use the subs and really work the sub program. Reading the suboxone/subutex FAQs at the bottom right of this page is a good place to get some general sub info and different approaches to their use. I suggest you educate yourself on subs as much as you can, so you are prepared for the discussion with the sub doctor. Subs are much stronger than the pills you where taking, so make sure you are clear on your short and long term goals. Chronic relapse is a good reason to use subs, but it is still important to know what you are putting in your body.
I was at 15 Norco 10s a day when I went cold turkey. It was hell but detox was over in about 5 days. Mentioning this because for some, subs become a problem. There is a post on the forum now about someone struggling with sub withdrawal. Be careful. Sounds like you're doing it the right way - doc supervision, etc., but then most of us started using meds while under a docs care and it still got out of control.
Thank you so much Weaver! I'm sure you understand how meaningful words of encouragement can feel in the mist of desperation. And thanks for the COWS tip and I LOVE the quote! :)
Like I said, I'm terrified of what's to come but with hard work, it's gotta be better than this. It's great to know that I'm not in it alone and I look forward to someday being some one else's voice of reason. But until then, I'll be here taking it one day at a time...
Like I said, I'm terrified of what's to come but with hard work, it's gotta be better than this. It's great to know that I'm not in it alone and I look forward to someday being some one else's voice of reason. But until then, I'll be here taking it one day at a time...
It's never TO LATE to be who you might have been.-George Eliot
OOPS, forgot to proof read.
OOPS, forgot to proof read.
It's never to be who you could have been. - George Eliot
You will forgive yourself and learn to deal with those grudges and resentments. I was a chronic relapse person and didn't realize how much I lied and cheated my way through my addiction until I was clean awhile. You're ahead of the game. Subs gave me a break from my addiction insanity and aftercare has helped me build coping skills. You'll do great. It's impossible to know how long it will take for you to be in moderate withdrawal, but you can google COWS scale and that will tell you what symptoms you should be having for sub induction. You will have as good an idea of how long it takes to reach those symptoms. You've been taking opiates long enough to have run out a few times. I was coming off 200mg of methadone and tapered down to 160mg. I couldn't take it anymore and took 8mg of subs. I was amazed at how fast I felt better. The fellowship of 12 step meetings and the tools from Cognitive therapy have changed my whole life. I'm actually glad I was so addicted, it made me reach down deep and find out who I really am and want to be. I hope you stick around and share your experience, strength, and hope as they develop. Keep posting with questions and for support.
You will forgive yourself and learn to deal with those grudges and resentments. I was a chronic relapse person and didn't realize how much I lied and cheated my way through my addiction until I was clean awhile. You're ahead of the game. Subs gave me a break from my addiction insanity and aftercare has helped me build coping skills. You'll do great. It's impossible to know how long it will take for you to be in moderate withdrawal, but you can google COWS scale and that will tell you what symptoms you should be having for sub induction. You will have as good an idea of how long it takes to reach those symptoms. You've been taking opiates long enough to have run out a few times. I was coming off 200mg of methadone and tapered down to 160mg. I couldn't take it anymore and took 8mg of subs. I was amazed at how fast I felt better. The fellowship of 12 step meetings and the tools from Cognitive therapy have changed my whole life. I'm actually glad I was so addicted, it made me reach down deep and find out who I really am and want to be. I hope you stick around and share your experience, strength, and hope as they develop. Keep posting with questions and for support.
I hit Post accidentally. Anyways...I won't continue to ramble. I was just going to say that the cycle has to stop. I just need the tools because I'm honest going to be lost without them.
Thanks Weaver. I called the Dr yesterday and they explained the process. She said to be in mild to moderate withdraw and to plan on being there all day for induction. She said that each patient varies but it could last all day. Then she explained the appointments there on after, that meetings and counseling were both required as well as drug tests during each visit. For me, these are all going to be key in maintaining sobriety. For the first time, someone will hold me accountable for my actions and I NEED that structure in my life. Can't lie though, I am shocked at the price for the initial visit as well as each one afterwards! wow!
Kyle- Anywhere from 20-25 10mg perks or norco's per day. I've tried tapering but I've never been successful. I always told myself "next time, make them last" but they never do. I can't imagine how my liver has held up all this time. It's sickening to know what we do to ourselves....because we're powerless. I have managed to completely isolate myself from the world other than work. I've lost some much weight and not in a good way. I at times would get sick because of how much I took but do you think that stopped me the next day? Nope. That's sad. I've lied, I've stolen and quiet honestly, I feel that I have cheated my way through life. Well, not my entire life but you know what I mean.
And what's even worse is I had a 21 year old brother who passed away from an OD 6 years ago leaving behind a 3 month old daughter. I can't bare the thought of that being my son but yet I STILL continued. I have another brother who is an addict, however, I'm proud to say that he is 2 years clean! I rode him and rode him about his addiction and what it was doing to our family and all the while...I was living a lie. I was a complete hypocrite. I know that there are alot of things from my past that has directly contributed to my addiction but I also know that every turn I've made in my life has led me to where I am now. I absolutely hold myself responsible for this...for all of it. I've always been one to hold a grudge because of all things, that's one I can do very well. I need to somehow learn to forgive myself because if I don't, not only will I continue to live in agony but I'll be bringing my son down with me and I cannot let that happen. My grandparents were adicts,
Kyle- Anywhere from 20-25 10mg perks or norco's per day. I've tried tapering but I've never been successful. I always told myself "next time, make them last" but they never do. I can't imagine how my liver has held up all this time. It's sickening to know what we do to ourselves....because we're powerless. I have managed to completely isolate myself from the world other than work. I've lost some much weight and not in a good way. I at times would get sick because of how much I took but do you think that stopped me the next day? Nope. That's sad. I've lied, I've stolen and quiet honestly, I feel that I have cheated my way through life. Well, not my entire life but you know what I mean.
And what's even worse is I had a 21 year old brother who passed away from an OD 6 years ago leaving behind a 3 month old daughter. I can't bare the thought of that being my son but yet I STILL continued. I have another brother who is an addict, however, I'm proud to say that he is 2 years clean! I rode him and rode him about his addiction and what it was doing to our family and all the while...I was living a lie. I was a complete hypocrite. I know that there are alot of things from my past that has directly contributed to my addiction but I also know that every turn I've made in my life has led me to where I am now. I absolutely hold myself responsible for this...for all of it. I've always been one to hold a grudge because of all things, that's one I can do very well. I need to somehow learn to forgive myself because if I don't, not only will I continue to live in agony but I'll be bringing my son down with me and I cannot let that happen. My grandparents were adicts,
If it is your first appointment with a sub doctor, it is usually an informative visit and you will have to return for sub induction. The two doctors I went to for subs told me to keep myself comfortable until my first visit. It really helped, as I would not have had the clarity to learn about their program. Unless the doctor advised you otherwise, I would wait until after the appointment to begin withdrawal. Then you can find out exactly what they are going to recommend and induce at a time that will allow you to adjust and stabilize. The first doctor sent me away and I was in withdrawal, I felt very disappointed because of all my anticipation. It is important to be very honest with the sub doctor and counselor, there's nothing to be nervous about.
It sounds like you are really doing it right by setting up aftercare and counseling. Subs can be a useful tool as a small part of a complete recovery program, the aftercare is the real key to recovery, subs just give you the time to do it. Let us know how it goes and congrats on taking the steps to gain back your life.
It sounds like you are really doing it right by setting up aftercare and counseling. Subs can be a useful tool as a small part of a complete recovery program, the aftercare is the real key to recovery, subs just give you the time to do it. Let us know how it goes and congrats on taking the steps to gain back your life.
Oh! My apologies! The last thing I want to do is get anyone, including myself, in trouble. But nonetheless, thank you! I look forward to seeing my smile again :)
Congratulations on taking your life back. Be sure to stick with the counseling and the fellowship and take the time while on Suboxone to get to the core issues. Learn coping skills and relapse prevention. Learn all you can before you come off of it.
I am sorry but it is a violation of our guidelines to advise on how to take medications. It is also dangerous for you to be asking this on the internet. You should be discussing this with your prescribing physician and let him/her tell you how and when to stop the pain medication.
I wish you the very best. Let us know how you are doing.
I am sorry but it is a violation of our guidelines to advise on how to take medications. It is also dangerous for you to be asking this on the internet. You should be discussing this with your prescribing physician and let him/her tell you how and when to stop the pain medication.
I wish you the very best. Let us know how you are doing.
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