Sleep? Hello? You There...?

Come out come out wherever you are... alright last night I got a good nights sleep but right now it's 4:10am and .... Well you get the idea! But nothing like that can shake my resolve in getting through this. If I have to be reminded of this experience once or twice a week by not sleeping then it's still a small price to pay. I can deal with it. Not because I enjoy this experience but because I was faced with a decision regarding life or death. I was already killing myself piece by piece each day. Either I stopped and try to get back to a more productive life or I Die! That simple to me. I don't want to die so 27 Days ago I chose to Live and 27 Days later i am beginning to Live again!     Miss Opiate , you seduced me , I bit the bait , but your true colors were exposed. Never again will you reign over me ****.   ;))

[NeverDreamed]

I love this... so true!   That Opiate **** got me too, I fell into its head game 100%.  However, fool me once shame on you.... im at day 14, so she wont fool me twice...especially with all the support here.. I control my life, no one else.  Good decision 27 days ago!  Keep it up friend.

[Addicted2long]

She was a real ****. I put her in her place though. 60 sumthing days ago. :) Keep it up man good job on the 27 days. 3 more and u got a month. Wooo. Thats huge. U going to a meeting that day? Its like a bday.

[Sarah11212]

Oh Mike!    
How I love your posts and really couldn't imagine a day without seeing at least 1!
I swear I have been sending the sleep fairies your way!  Darn them!
I wish I could understand what your going through w/ the whole sleep issue but, I have been getting lots in the week. Eeek, sorry.  
I will have a chat w/ those little fairies tonight!
Have you tried any type of an OTC sleep aid or the melatonin?

[snakejones]

Hey, Mike, opiates are not female, nor are they dogs!   ;-)  They are one of the greatest gifts of God---we at this forum just don't use them correctly. But I suppose if you wanted to pin an evil spirit on it, it should probably be neuter! Hope you get a little more shut-eye before work......

[IwillDoThis]

Sleep, what is that?  I thought I saw it in the bedroom but when I went in the little bugger slid under the bed and ran out to play hide and seek in my house.  I thought I had this creature cornered in the kitchen but I was distracted by my left over chinese.  Now I haven't seen him in a couple of hours.  I hope I find him soon.......................................AAAAAAAHHHHHHH this part kills me.  Here's hoping sleep finds you, me and anyone else on here suffering this slipperly creature.

[MikeInFrance]

Great posts to read first thing in the morning!  Any temptation to me at all in life is now viewed as Miss Opium **** in disguise. Because she comes in so many forms. And after sitting here for a couple minutes to decide if i wanted to say anything I decided I will ... And it's about snakes above response.  There may be a valid reason for someone to take this drug although I could never view it as a dream drug

[gnarly_1]

Hey Mike I totally understand what you say but for 90 % of the people out there these things never become a problem
it is us the ones that get the euphoric from it or energy that wind up in trouble it kinds funny how it destroys one person and the next can take 24 and never pick them up again go to prove what I say the pills are not the problem it is the escape we are after you need to figure our what demons you are running from that makes you so uncomfortable you choose to medicate addiction is a complex animal you truly do need to learn how to think and reason all over again our best thinking got us here
just some food for thought......Gnarly  

[MikeInFrance]

Always hungry for your info Gnarly! Always always makes sense. Hard as dog-sh*t frozen on the arctic floor sometimes but makes perfect sense to me! ;)      ... (not the frozen ds ... Your comments.... Lol )

[broken142085]

anyone else out there on day4?

[sandstone27]

You know Mike, I used to like reading your posts....USED to.  Your initial and subsequent messages on this thread - and I read them before the Moderators cleaned them up - I found offensive and disrespectful.  The words you chose to humanize an inanimate object, one that you clearly hate offends me as a female ( and no, the male counterpart isn't any better).  

So much for MikeInFrance's thought provoking posts - I for one won't be reading them anymore...and it makes no difference to me if  I'm the only person on this forum who feels this way - although I'm sure there are others.

Nice job Mike.  

S.

[MikeInFrance]

Sorry u feel like that...was never intended to offend you. I am just working through something here the way that best works for me. I keep going in life and pushing forward through my addiction trying to come out on the other side where I was before it started. So again, sorry u took offense to it and if all it took was one comment to stop u from reading my "thought provoking" posts then I am kore sorry for that.  Good luck to you in all you set out to do. Just do it for you first!  :)

[lulu747]

Yes Mike...
  Opiates help MANY people suffering extreme pain, particularly those in palliative care at the end of their lives. To them, it is the only reprieve from an intense amount of suffering.   Also, referring to your DOC in a demeaning sexualized way, as a woman and activist, I find this extremely offensive.

Just a thought...Instead of playing the blame game, why don't  you work towards accepting your addiction, stop blaming it on the pills, and do some real work in aftercare?...You've had this huge life lesson and you have another shot at bettering yourself and therefore the world around you.  Please take it for the gift that it is and put it to good use.

Lu

[dominosarah]

Opiates have a place in this world.  My father was allowed to pass peacefully as he was ravaged by cancer.

I agree with lulu.  You have blamed these pills long enough.  Time for you to step up to the plate and place the blame where it needs to be.  Hold yourself accountable for your actions.  Aftercare would help.

[NeverDreamed]

I took this post as a frustration with no sleep, and kind of a comical way of lightening the mood.  I am female, a proud, strong, very assertive, take no BS kind of person.    I was not offended as you see in my post below his.  I feel at times for me, knowing I did this to myself by choice, knowing I damaged so many things in my life, it is heavy, it is hard..and if we can make ourselves smile for a moment during the early stages, i'm all for it.  I don't feel Mike or anyone else (including myself) meant it as a form of any kind of disrespect to women.  I also apologize if anyone was offended.  
For me, I understand the pills didn't do this to me, I did this to me.  For me it wasn't an escape, I truly just liked the way they made me feel, that warm euphoric feeling.  My life is Great...I have no complaints, I have the most amazing family, friends, husband, I have a great job, great income..  I originally started them for pain, then I just liked the high.  I don't believe Mike or myself really blames the pills, obviously they did not jump down our throat on their own.  I made the decision to take them, and now I make the decision to stop.  Day 15, and feeling better and better each day.   MIKE the sandman found me last night, i'll send him your way tonight.  
Good Luck to all, and thank you for all the support.  

xoxo

[broken142085]

The world out there all forgot to tell you that narcotics give you meth mouth.  it just takes years, but trust me it isn't worth loosing all my teeth.  i bet them drug companies laughed all the way to the bank. makeing sure they are (feeling sad for then..)    looking up when they walk past homeless and thinking to himself "junkies".  never to realize "parma-copia", big freaking drug companies   PUT THEM THERE!!!!!!!  AND WE ARE EVERYWHERE!!!!!! we are  bankers, babysitters, bus driver, and my personal doctors and even some presidents.
  Did you know that in the begging the (drug sales men) touted to doctors everywhere that oxycodone was not addicting and had little abuse potential.
its only recently putting a "protective" time-release coating making it impossible to iv.  the pill just turns to jello-ish. to show they tried.  then the flood gates opened, and doctors were/are writing scripts, most of which are  
good honest people, to everywhere  Now Grannie and Granddad  are hooked on some form of oxy.

[snakejones]

Hi again, Mike---
As an RN of 34 years, believe me, opiates are the---THE---single greatest of God's gifts to medicine, as well as one of the most ancient. I have witnessed---and personally felt---their power and glory, the last time only three weeks ago when I had reconstructive foot surgery (5 bones broken with a bone cutter, set, plated, and permanent titanium screws drilled in to hold them together). Even with the entire surgical site infiltrated with Marcaine, a long-lasting anesthetic, I still had to have 4mg. of IV Dilaudid and a little later, two Norco to give me enough lead time to get home and into bed before the next pain wave hit. I would have never dared to have that surgery without opiates, even though things had gotten so bad that for the last 6 months I was limping with every step.
I've seen a lot of people die, Mike, and opiates helped relieve their terrible pain; some of my patients had suffered for years with mind-blowing pain that got even worse as they approached the end of their suffering. And I was right there with the morphine and a smile for them, and they smiled back. Some died with that same smile of relief and joy on their face. God reserved the most beautiful death experience I have ever witnessed for my own mother; after a tiny, single dose of morphine, she delivered up her soul so triumphantly that you could feel it rise up out of her like a physical entity. She died in a state of joy.
I also witnessed a horrible death due to unrelieved pain. It was a 10 year-old girl with bone cancer. She'd been through hell for two years, and had the worst kind of pain there is. She was on a tiny dose of IV morphine every two hours, and it  never even took effect, much less held her until the next dose. Her specialist, the one who had ordered the morphine, was 100 miles away, so I had to telephone him. I pleaded with him and reasoned with him, but even with the child's moans and cries in the background, he refused to change the dose. I finished my shift, went home in tears, and learned later that afternoon that she had literally died screaming in her mother's arms. This is why I will never say anything bad about opiates. To me they are not just a gift, but a sacrament.
I have also abused opiates---hydrocodone and Ultram, to be specific. I successfully tapered down from 18 Ultram per day to 8, and have never had a problem since. The Lorcet 10 I was taking at 15/day; in November I stopped them cold for 2 1/2 months to prepare my body for surgery so they would work for postop pain. I am currently taking none, for the first time in 16 1/2 years! I finished my bottle, and that's that. I cannot say for sure that I will not take them again, as I was taking them for severe osteoarthritis. Due to my foot surgery having a four-month recovery time, I'm spending a lot of time in bed, so of course my osteo is getting a rest, too, and doesn't hurt too much. When I resume my active life, I'll just have to see. But I will always have to be very careful around them.
I understand that to you, opiates are evil incarnate! And that's okay if it keeps you away from them. I am so proud of your progress that I smile every time I see you post. And while I disagree about opiates being objectified as a female entity, that's your prerogative, too. You aren't the first to feel that way---the word "opiate" derives from the Greek word "opos", which means "juice", or in alternate translations, "milk", or "milky juice of plants". Therefore, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to see the poppy plant as a mother entity!

[10356]

I just wanted to say what a great post Snakejones. I have seen for myself what you speak of in my own family with the use of opiates. My heart broke when I read of the lil girl How very sad. My mom had bone cancer and had a very compassionate Dr. 1 nurse did not agree with the amount of morphine that was given thru the pump. but without the amount she was given her suffering would have been unbearable. my mom in law who had lung cancer. I was sitting with her in the hospital she was just depleted and done fighting. I was not ready to let her go as she became sick months after my mother's passing. I told her mom you have taken the liquid hydro do not take anything else ok while I was at the store getting a spray for dry mouth she received a shot of morphine for pain I came back She was in good spirits was telling a funny story, in the middle of it she stopped looked at me said my name and passed.. she was ready It was a Blessing. My lil sister had bone cancer also she did not suffer due to the opiates and passed peacefully.. My eldest sister has stage 4 breast cancer It has been a year and things are not as bright as they once where without opiates I do know she will suffer.. It has attached to her breast bone. So Yes they are a Blessing...
I want to wish you well with your foot and a speedy recovery I also have a lot of hardware in my right foot If I can suggest 1 thing when you get off that bed Do not carry anything heavy grocery bags and whatnot.. The last thing you need is extra weight on your foot. I wish you a speedy recovery and a lifetime of walking :)

Hi MikeInFrance.. You are so close to a Month !! Congratulations !!! I did not take offense to your post as I have called Heroin many names and some of yours were choice :) Keep your eye's forward and if it takes making a enemy out of your Doc You do that for as Addicts it is the Enemy.. You are doing Great ! Make sure you take everyone's advice ok and seek some face to face support It helps.. lesa

[MikeInFrance]

Snake...that post was awesome! I would just like to say that if someone on their deathbed is in severe pain then by all means give them as much of any narcotic that they need. They won't have withdrawals and have to retrain their brain. I hope that doesn't sound bad to say I am simply responding to my comments somehow being misconstrued as I am anti anything with opium in it. If I was on my deathbed in pain I would definately want it for myself.  And to say that I am blaming the pills for my problems is ludicrous. I am always the first one to say that I had no legitimate reason whatsoever to be taking oxynorms and that I did it for stricly recreational purposes and j got hooked and a year later I didnt like what was happening to me so I decided to stop. And thats when I met you all almost 28 Days ago. If I wanted to play the blame game then I wouldn't start with an object .... I' start with the doc and pharmacies, etc I am almost puzzled as to how u understood my comments ro reflect that. Especially since you all say you followmy posts daily. So you should def know better than to think that about me. But like I said...at the end of the day I have to face myself in the mirror and I know at those moments that I am better person today for not taking any more .... Anymore what? Pills ...I that's me blaming the pills then it's what working for me. To me if i hate something (and I hate opiates) it's a sure bet i'll stay away from it! When it comes to me and my recovery...it's all about me....

[NeverDreamed]

I am so sorry you lost both of your mothers so close.  I could not imagine.  and to SnakeJones, I'm also so sorry you witnessed the loss of that little girl.  I would not want my family to suffer through any pain, and would do ANYTHING  in my power to prevent their pain or suffering.  Therefore, I do agree with pain meds in many situations.  I also feel doctors not all but many script them out too quickly and by the bucket full.  I myself feel I should have been strong enough to take them as prescribed, as look at the situation i'm in now.  and like 10356 stated, if I need to call my DOC names, and make it my enemy, get mad at it to give me strength to stay the hell away from it, then more power to all of us for whatever is working to keep us clean.    My thoughts and prayers are with you all.  Thank you for yours.  
xoxo

[MikeInFrance]

Thanks lesa! ;)

[NeverDreamed]

Amen Mike....

[snakejones]

So wonderful to read these powerful posts of love, pain, compassion, addiction, struggle, death, loss---and ultimate triumph. I treasure each of you and always will be your well-wisher. Life is hard, and we need to support each other as much as we can. Some of us have no one else to tell of our daily struggles or our joys. And without knowing it, a person's post can offer powerful lessons to others and even be the catalyst for change that someone was waiting to hear.
To 10356: what a beautiful post, one that was very hard for me to read in places. You have had a lot of loss, and my heart goes out to you for what you and your loved ones have suffered. I pray that your dear sister will live each day in physical comfort and in as much happiness and spiritual harmony as one heart can hold. I'm sure you will be a powerful advocate for her. If I may ever help you, I would be honored. Write anytime. Oh, and you received such a blessing being with your dear mother-in-law at her passing. To die in the middle of relating a funny story is beyond wonderful. And she said your name. That's a blessing and a benediction, if ever there was one......Oh, and thanks for the tip about groceries. Dear husband is going to be the pack pony for awhile--he's wonderful!
To neverdreamed: That was a very perceptive post. Yes, doctors give out way too many prescriptions for addictive meds. I've also seen some that were so spooked about their license and legal ramifications that they never gave anything, even when it was badly needed. They did some of their patients a grave disservice, no doubt. The solution lies somewhere in the middle, and it definitely lies with the doctors. The pharmaceutical companies cause their own brand of trouble by messing with the doctors and tempting them. My friend worked in a multi-doctor office and said that the drug company sent the doctors on a trip to the Caribbean, all expenses paid, due to their writing prescriptions for so many drugs for that company! But ultimately, the doctors need to be discerning in their use of opiates and other addictive drugs---they're the only ones that can write the prescriptions.
To Mike: You are right about doctors needing to shoulder a lot of the blame--again, they are the ones who write the prescriptions. But in the here and now, that doesn't help us much, does it? We need to address our own situation to get through all the uncomfortable days and nights ahead. (Even after being off the Lorcet 10 for over two months, I had exhausting dreams every #$#!!**%! night about them, right up until surgery day. I finished my postop Norco yesterday, and like clockwork, last night a dream about trying to steal some from an old man's basement! I wish I knew what to do to keep it from haunting my dreams.) We need this forum, and we need each other in so many ways. I like you because you are positive and upbeat, and many times, freaking hilarious!  I didn't mean to infer that you were against opiates in every way--I just got kind of carried away trying to show you their beauty and value! And of course, if you were in a car wreck or had to have emergency surgery, you'd probably need some. But for now, you hate them; that's what works for you, and it's okay with me. I just want you to know that I've also seen the hideous side of addiction firsthand, and it included murder. If you want me to tell about it, I will.
I am thankful for each one of you!

[Addicted2long]

There are some awsome posts of here. I appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts and stories with us. Everyone's appreciation for opiates is going to be different. For many of us, we were never even prescribed them and took them illegally. So in that aspect we do not see the true necessestiy of them and how much they can truely help a person in need. I know that they have saved thousands of lives and prevented people from passing away in terrible pain. My grandma and grandfather both died a peaceful death on morphine. I am thankful that they were able to not be suffering when they passed. Doctors have the difficult task of giving people these strong opoid medicines. All the people that are abusing them illegally just make their job more challenging and difficult to do. With all the young people dieing from pain killer od's after getting them from someone who is prescribed or taking them from a family member really hurts there true colors. It is sad that they (painkillers) have been given such a bad rap over the years and are not more difficult to get for those who really need them. Pain patients are now looked upon as addicts and dont even abuse there meds. I feel bad that I was ever a part of it and wish that people didnt blame the ones who really need the meds and arent doing anything wrong. I know doctors are really hesitant to give out anything now and many have to suffer. Times have really changed over the years. Imagine back in the day when even heroin was legal to purchase and morphine. Now we have pharmacys that have to use time locked safes because people are robbing them and people are getting hurt. Its crazy. The epidemic in this country is growing and I don't think that this country has truely recognized or faced it. The days of cocaine and weed are over and now highschool kids and even younger are abusing prescription drugs. I know that when I was at college 2 years ago the only drugs really going around were oxycontin and xanax. It was easier to find those then it was anything else. I do not know of anyone that has ever died from anything from opiates. Not saying it doesnt happen because it certainly does but the dozens I have known who have died was from heroin or oxys. These deaths could have in my opinion been prevented. I was never warned of the dangers of pills when I was younger. All we heard about was alcohol and dangers of driving on it and marijuana. Its sad that we focus so much of our anti-drug program in this country on weed. The real killer is in our familys cabinents and our kids have access to them whether it be at grandmas house or from a friend. There needs to be more preventative measures in place to help with this. Nat Geo is noticing the issue and has been airing shows about pain killers such as "pill nation". But where is the talk about it in schools? If we could fix the problem with kids and using these drugs then we could take the blame off the doctors and stop making it hard for real pain patients to get there medicine.

-As for the argument about this post being sexist and disrespectful towards women. I do not think that Mike meant anything against woman and I know I certainly didnt in my post after his. People my age refer to these drugs in names like that. Cocaine is often called "lady" or "white girl" and this is simply a name and not meant to be offensive. I think its the generational difference that is causing the confusion. But I will certainly watch the way I say things in the future and with all respect apologize for any issues this caused.

Hope everyone has a wonderful weekend and keeps focused on their own recovery. Take care and god bless

[lulu747]

Everyone-
Thank you for sharing these beautiful, thought provoking, and emotionally stirring posts.  It is important to look at everything from all sides and it is truly one of the many wonderful aspects of this forum.

I work with women and girls who are survivors of sexual violence.  In my work, I've become very aware of the role language plays in our society. I know that no one meant to be offensive, I just wanted to bring awareness to the power of the words that we use.  

Again-thank you all for sharing your experiences...You touch my soul and I want to wish you all a wonderful weekend...
Lu

[minn66]

Mike, I have enjoyed reading your posts and your progress is inspiring.  I did not interpret your commrnts as demeaning to women at all.  I wish you well on your journey and am proud of how far you have come.

God bless and may the Sandman visit you tonight.

Minn

[sandstone27]

Thanks Lu, for reiterating the point(s) that were made earlier with regard to using terms that are personally  offensive to some.  We don't have to agree on this topic but we DO have to respect each other on this forum and post accordingly.  

@Mike - You may want to dominosarah's post again...it's just possible that if you put more time into aftercare and less time into "complaining" about a little pill, you'd sleep better at night.  

Just my opinion.

S.

[sandstone27]

With regard to this being a generational issue - I'm 27, you're 25, not much of a gap there.  Enough said.

[Addicted2long]

Well at least he doesn't waste time preaching on a "substance abuse forum" how godly-like opiates are. I suppose there are websites like bluelight and opiaphile to do that no? The people here are suffering from addictions to them..many have lost their family, friends, homes, freedom and sanity because of them. And over 30,000 people in the US die each year because of them. More than alcohol and all illicit drugs combined. We dont preach or glorify drugs..we preach recovery. This is a place to realize the pills caused the devastation and destruction in our lives. And we are argueing over the simple context of refering to a drug as a miss. I dont think he meant anything of it and I think you know that. I think you just wanna make a fuss about it and make your point. Your obviously on this website for a reason..they couldnt have been too much of a gift from god if your looking for help getting off them. Maybe im lost...

[sandstone27]

you obviously have me confused with someone else; I have never once preached how God-like opiates are.  Please post to the correct person.
Or not.  

S.  

[Addicted2long]

Sorry your right i meant that to snakejones

[kyle505]

The way I see it - I can't blame the pills or the docs for my situation. The very first time I took vics I knew I was hooked. The second time it was my decision as to how my future would unfold. I chose to use and abuse pain meds. I chose. The pills didn't jump into my mouth. The doc didn't drop by my house with refills. So I can't blame anyone or anything for my years of abuse but me. You know that you're an abuser. I couldn't look in the mirror after awhile. I take responsibility for my behavior.    

[MikeInFrance]

Nobody , certainly not me, is blaming the pills, docs, pharmacies or anyone else. Addicted2long said it best in this thread. I find it compelling to point out that some of us have been to the lowest of the lows but now we argue over a word.  Had this been a battered womans forum or someone woman's rights forum  u can be sure I never would have weighed in like I did. But it's not...we are addicts...when I / u are able to overcome our addictions and are ready to take on another challenge then we can discuss describing heroin as 'boy' coke as 'girl' or any other descriptions.

[MikeInFrance]

Kyle ...right on with what you said...I agree completely!