Today I just realized something.... When I first started my taper off of 15/Norco day, I was hurting bad. I kept thinking...
"I'm at 6 Norco/day and feel this sh*tty. That's still a pretty high dose. What's wrong withe me? I must be weak. What's going to happen when I hit 3 Norcos/day. What am I going to do when I take the jump to ZERO!?!"
The anxiety was paralyzing at times. The withdrawals were toying with my emotions and burning through my body. Recently I posted a question about Suboxone because I have an entire bottle of it here at home. In between my knee surgeries, my doctor gave it to me to help with the pain. Not knowing what I was doing really... I continued my ongoing 15 Norco/day habit and ON TOP started taking 4mg of Suboxone a day. I didn't realize how potent it was. I mean I had read online that it was strong, but since it didn't give me any sort of high - It seemed sort of "fake" to me... I felt like it was harmless and wouldn't affect me in the long run. I thought my Norco addiction was my only devil. For 2 -3 weeks leading up to my last surgery, I took 4mg of Suboxone everyday. After I had my procedure, I stopped the Suboxone CT. I didn't think a thing of it. Now I wonder if part of my withdrawal symptoms have been because I took this medication. I mean, I quit taking it 3 weeks ago, so maybe now, that too is seeping out of my body. Perhaps I'm wrong - because I only took it for 2 weeks... I just don't know.
So now, on Day 6 of being at 6 Norcos/day - here's where I am:
I got through the entire night without waking up or needing a bath... YES! I think that means I'm heading in the right direction, right? I hope so... I still hurt A LOT in the mornings and off and on throughout the day. I still have lots of cravings... And the anxiety - sometimes I wonder if that will ever go away. but I can deal with it and I got to keep going. Now I need to figure out when I should taper to 5 Norco/day and I'm SO torn what to do.
I just got 2 cortisone shots this morning and was told I'd be in pain for a couple days or so, I also have 3 grueling sessions of physical therapy this week, AND I have to go to a full-weekend function in Pebble Beach for my husband's company on Friday — where I'll have to hob-nob like I'm "normal" with all the executives. UGH!!! Now, I'm thinking I'll do my taper to 5 Norco next Monday instead of this Wednesday as I had planned.
I hope that doesn't make me weak. I hope prolonging the taper for a bit longer than I had planned doesn't mean I'm not committed. I hope I'm not mind-screwing myself to think... "Oh I'll taper later because I can't cope with less Norco this week" I feel like I have genuine reasons to hold off on the next taper. But I also feel like ALL addicts come up with an excuses not to keep pushing through.
I'm disappointed in myself right now. Maybe I should cut down to 5 Norcos on Wednesday regardless of my post-surgery knee pain, regardless of my travel obligations, regardless of the physical therapy. Ugh... I don't know what to do... Haha, I don't know why I'm even posting this... I know my problems are minor to other people's issues. I just needed to VENT. That's all.
Your problems aren't minor compared. We are all in the same boat!
That being said, yes you will find excuses, and I have no experience with taper, if going down puts you in really bad wds like CT does.
But I firmly believe you have to take time to do this. In that I mean..
My CT for instance. I would have not put it off for cortisone or PT, if you have real pain issues, you have to realize they are still going to be there. Cortisone shots are uncomfortable, but when I got them prior to being on opiates, they didn't Rx anything, just told me to take 4 OTC iburporfen ( equal to one Rx ibuprofen)
PT is grueling yes, I have been through it for my back, and years ago for a car wreck. I had to do OT too, as I was having memory problems.
I also took someone to all their therapy sessions for knee replacement, I saw her pain, she is 66 and did it without pain meds.
You're going to be in physical pain regardless. I'm on day 33 and still waiting on the true pain evaluation the vets of the boards speak of. Im in a lot of pain every single day.
However, I would not have chosen a CT with such a big function ahead like you have. I think that lends to failure. But, without sounding harsh, I know how important functions like these are, so maybe don't taper if you think it will put you in relapse ( taking more than your taper)
But there comes a point you simply need to clear your schedule and do it. Sooner rather than later.
I have read your posts over the days, but with all the people posting have a hard time remembering specifics. Sorry!
Does your hubby know you are doing this? Can you tell him, after this event, to plan no more until you're done? Because you must take time to get well.
What led you to wanting to stop?
I didn't taper. Sometimes I wish I had, if it would have helped the anxiety. But you seem to be having it on taper. I personally lurked here and a couple other sites for a couple days, and in reading decided to get it over with.
But had I had to go to public events, I couldn't have done it I don't think. I went into this blindly, thinking 5-7 days of the flu, like I had been reading. Instead, I got none of that really, just paralyzing anxiety.
But I knew for sure I needed a clear calendar.
I know it's not possible to clear it all; but social functions you can. You must take time for you to heal. And not put it off. The pain, you have to deal with in other ways. I realize that's not always possible, it's mental.
But can you at least not agree to social stuff for awhile, after this weekends stuff?
You wouldn't be expected to do social stuff post surgery or if you had the real flu, this is no different! Take time for you to get well!
What concerns me is that you are making excuses not to follow your plan. There will always be something. You need to wrap your mind around getting this done, no matter what.
Do not beat yourself up. Stay positive, it goes a long way.
Think of this: You are complaining about going to Pebble Beach this weekend. I would KILL to be sure for the golf tournament and I would pay to hob-nob!! Turn your attitude and maybe you can enjoy yourself. I hope you do.
Whatever you do or however you do it--we will be here to support you.
Don't let the anxiety and fear of the unknown get the best of you... I tapered and stayed focused. As far as social events it is actually the fear of the unknown that is worst than anything else.. Really you could attend the function and be semi social : ).. I know when I had to chair and present at my meeting without a Vicodin the apprehension leading up to the actual meeting killed me ( in my head) my meeting was actually fine no different than those I would have taken a Vic for.. Also, the social aspect isn't that bad either I managed a business lunch with a client and colleague my 2nd day after taking nothing once my taper ended.. I actually tried to come up with every excuse as to why I was going to blow off the luncheon portion and ended going because my colleague/ employee stopped me in the morning and reminded me about lunch and I had anxiety all morning and wanted to get out of going.. Dropping from 6 to 5 won't be that bad.. You will be fine.. As for the suboxone try to stay away from that; I don't know much about it but it kind of scares me.. PS I just booked my travel plans for March totally opiate free and I feel relived that I don't have to count my prescription and book travel around refills LOL it is actually liberating.
Thanks Everyone!!! I'm an addict. I make up excuses. AND THANK YOU FOR CALLING ME OUT ON IT!!! BTW, I'm never taking Suboxone again - I'm just wondering if that's why I'm still feeling so damn crappy, because I'm getting that out of my system too.
Now to be fair, I am actually going against my Orthopedic's wishes being in any sort of pain during my physical therapy. I have a serious condition where I develop scar tissue at rapid rates. My PT is crucial to be avoiding another surgery... I went last Friday and because of my taper, I was unable to perform my exercises :( My physical therapist was upset and insisted I go get cortisone shots or do something, so that I can push through. The tissue in my knee gets so swollen it pushes on my nerve endings. My thigh muscle is so weak from atrophy of not using for 8 months, that my knee cap scraps into my femur bone every time I extend it. My surgeon gave me ANOTHER script of Norcos today to help in my rehabilitation. I gave the script to my husband to hold immediately. He is the one in charge of my pill intake... and he is strict about it. Honestly, this weekend is soooo important to his business, he wants me to keep on the dose I'm on so I don't have a panic attack or get the runs while I'm talking to the CEO.
Now, LOOK. Look what I've done.... I'm still giving excuses not to cut back more through this weekend. I LOVE all the support I get on this site. I want to follow your advice as you are all free of this narcotic nightmare!!! But, regretfully, I might have to stick to the 6 Norco/taper until next week.
A. I don't want to mess up my physical therapy... ugh I should have told my doctor that I'm scared about my dependency on Norco I take. BTW, I DO take 600mg/day of RX Advil to help control my inflammation and pain management. It hasn't ever helped me. I did it after my first surgery and still needed a second one...
B. I don't want to ruin my husband's weekend. I want to be there for him. And as is, I'm still feeling sh*tty as hell and it could be little rough. Haha!
Anyway, there's my confession. So be it. Now if I'm feeling good this weekend and can skip a pill with no issue, trust me I WILL!!!! Promise. I just had to be honest with you all...
IBKleen... you're right. I sound like a brat. Here I am going to watch a celebrity golf tournament and I can't be happy about it. Thus is issue with addition and of course, an injury.
Hi BarbRTR - To answer your questions, yep - my husband knows and keeps my arse in line... I have no control over my pill intake anymore! I decided I wanted to quit taking pills because I'm DEPRESSED and I just lost it one day - I was shaking and crying to my husband that I had lost myself... I lost my identity. I used to be in ballet for years, then I became an aggressive runner. While I did drink socially and party when I was younger, my "high" for the last 8 years was my running, hiking, hell walking around the mall and shopping gave me joy. Granted I did do some of those things on Pills RX'd to my husband, so I do know I have an addiction to the feeling of them as well. But man, I LOVED to run and it actually helped me get off pills in the past. Now look at me... unable to walk without a limp for 8 months and told today I may never run again. I decided to get off the pills for GOOD in part because I'm losing my mind. Haha! And also so I can have a baby... and focus on the joy of a family my husband I really want to have. The problem with a steep taper, or any withdrawals - as you know is the aches and lethargy. So, going to my PT has been soooo hard. I hurt everywhere on top of my knee pain (which I'm sure is intensified because I have a stupid dependency)... anyway, that's me in a nutshell. WOOT WOOT! Thank you for your long, detailed message. You guys are lifesavers!!!! xoxoxo
IBKleen, lol, I think my long responses have to do with the fact I'm on day 33 only, I decided what the heck and quit my Anti depressant and ADD meds as well, so my thoughts are racing everywhere! Normally, I write well, but now I can't seem to articulate!
Ann, I only mentioned cleaning the social calander because of the anxiety Miss Creative is already experiencing. It's different for everyone. My physical wasn't so bad, but the anxiety was paralyzing. Reading back then how you chaired a meeting was incredible to me!
Where are you traveling to pill free? Congrats!
I canceled my girls weekend away for this month, still to nervous. But, I have suffered anxiety all my life, and have been through spells like this lasting up to 6 weeks in the past. ( Thank heavens for FMLA) it may be a coincidence it's happening at the same time.
And to the OP, is there and end to your pain in sight? A fix? I certainly hope so!
Glad your hubby's on board, though asking you not to go down is strange, unless this type of event is rare, and not an every month thing?
This was actually an informative post to newbies, an inspiration..
Because I'm with you at only day 33, I would dread such an event right now. But remember back when I would have looked forward to it, and seeing IBKleens post is a reminder to all of us that we can look forward to stuff like that again once we are clean after awhile, like IBKleen is!
Ok there's my book lol!
Good luck, and I hope you do at least enjoy the event.
This event is a once a year thing... and his company had to pay a LOT of $$$ for us to be there and we committed to it a year ago. It's the Pro-Am Golf Tournament in Pebble Beach and a plays major role in the advancement and good graces of his career, because of all the executives that are there. It's a great honor that he's invited to attend each year. If this stupid thing weren't such a big deal, I wouldn't go. He is a sweet man and said if I am feeling awful, I don't have to attend the events. So... we'll see... maybe I'll skip it and just sit on my couch connected to my icing machine and sulk! Really, how can I walk around the golf course anyway... I have to use crutches right now if I go long distances. Me = Party Pooper!!! :)
In all seriousness though, I understand life changing medical diagnosis.
I got mine a year, year and a half before I started pain meds.
I could no longer work ( my identity, my feel good) physically only leave home a few days a month, and even at home, be bed bound much of the time. Also know my life span will be reduced by about 20 years, if I run into no complications. I figure I have 15-20 years left. I do hold faith the med community will find a cure.
I had to find new ways to be happy. I started a home business, and am doing decent with it. I hope that being clean will kick start it from decent to great. I learned over the last couple years to be grateful if I got a good few hours, to go to dinner or the movies. Take my daughter to a concert.
You have a goal too, a baby. The best goal ever. So, I know you feel anger. I do to still sometimes. But I must stop and think of all those so much worse off. A cliche yes, but true.
It's so wonderful you have a supportive hubby. It's hard for him too, he doesn't want to see you in pain. It's actually probably really hard for him not to give you more. Kudos to him.
Keep fighting. I'm so very sorry to hear about your dr saying you may never run again. But they aren't always right.. Far from it. They told my Dad he would never walk again after overnight sudden onset of MS. He told them they were wrong. Went on not only to walk again, but counsel other newly diagnosed MS patients, and a long story why, but about 6 years later actually thank God for getting the MS. He found a reason for it, strange as that may sound. If I wrote it all out, it would be a book!
Hugs.. Here to talk anytime you want.
My name is Barb btw. RTR stands for my football team. Roll Tide Roll :)
hey girl slow and steady will win the race, don't worry if the taper is longer than you thought. I understand pain and PT and all of that mess i have been there many times, take Aleve and ice before PT it does help. Im glad your hubby has the pills, i believe in a taper but to be honest its so hard to do, so you really need to be strict with yourself. Whatever you do, don't take more. So if you feel you need a few more days on 6 a day, thats ok, also being on a taper is not going to make you feel normal, you will feel wd's just mild compared to CT. Keep up the work, and drop when you are ready.
Hi I am actually going on a Celebrity Cruise 8 days and spending a few pre and post cruise days in South Beach.. If you asked me in December if I would have gone any where it would have been a big noooooo! I didn't even go to the grocery store without popping a Vic... Hair appt pop a Vic ...Nordstrom pop a Vic it was insane and I finally realized it last summer but kept going I went away this past October and counted my pills daily ...I agree the physical was not as bad as the mental for me the fear was huge! I truly had no business taking the pills a year after successful back surgery but I did. I def thinks she should clear her social calendar as well ad just get this done it will be easier in the long run.. I know I dramatized and magnified the physical symptoms with my taper but no exaggerating the anxiety s@$&!? for the first week or so.. My husbund fortunately travels for weeek pretty frequently so it was just me becuase after work I was a miserable b!?!? after the firstbweek. i saw my husband that first week and his mere presence irritated me he caught bronchitis and would cough i was like shut the F!?! up and I normaly have patinece..As far as work I had no choice but to handle it I have been in my career for 19 years since I graduated College @ 21 almost 22 years old .. There was no way I could ever disclose this at work.. The only person who knows is my husband and he thinks I " dramatized" my dependence and does not get it! He took a Perc after a minor knee surgery and vomited I of course said I would get rid of them ; straight in to my purse.. Def dont cancel your next girls weekend it will be good for you!
You saw right! He did give me that news today... thank you for sharing the story about your Dad. And your own personal story... I'm sorry to hear about your illness and what it has done to you. I feel like a dope whining about running. I will adjust to my challenges. Tapering off a long addiction to pills while going through a major injury might not have been the smartest thing I've ever done. But OBVIOUSLY it's not the dumbest. Thanks Barb! I wish you all the best with your business and health :)
Thanks Dane! Even if I do keep tapering through everything this weekend... it's refreshing to hear that hey, I can slow it down if I need to... as long as I don't up my dose (which my husband would NEVER let me do)... I didn't think it was so bad. I've been on pills for over 3 years. I've been on LOTS of pills for 8 months. I'm a week into my taper.... there's a lot of damage I've done to my body over the course of 1000+ days on narcotics. I'm only 6 days going off of them. Maybe I just need to quit being so hard on myself :) xo
Exactly don't even worry about it right now. As long as you're not going up, you are doing great. Think about what you have done, not what you haven't. You are moving in the right direction.
The whole idea of tapering isso you don't put your body into withdrawals, so the slower the better.
Be proud of yourself. You are doing the right thing.
You have asked about maybe still having some residual effects of being on the suboxone and you also used the word taper in a way that confuses me.
I know your future plans are to go from 6 norcos to 0 and you'd like to be off all narcotics in 2 mos I think you said. But aren't you really just starting the taper now? Seems like you kinda radically JUMPED from 15 to 6 and are now talking of doing a slow taper? Don't know....maybe I didn't get that right.
I think its possible that you are having more pronounced w/drawal symptoms right now because you were on 4 mg of suboxone at the same time you were still taking 15 norcos/day even tho you said you only took that combo for 2-3 wks. You didn't know much about the subs when you were taking them so you didn't know that the suboxone was binding to your pain receptors, therefore blocking most of the effects of those 15 norcos every day. Also, sinced you started asking about subs in the last few days, you have learned the ratio of subs to norcos of 1 mg = 60 mg.
So while you were taking 4 mg subs (240 mg) and 15 norcos (150 mg) you were putting about 390 mg into your body each day!! So that's why I think by stopping the 390 mg and going to 150 mg and now down to 60 mg you are having such a time of it, girl.
Now that you have more information about all this, you can attempt a slow taper and see if that's something you can do. Remember as you do your PT, your shots, your taper and all...that you pain level will not be the same as when you are totally off pain meds for awhile. After my accident and then my following back surgery, my pain actually got WORSE before I finally got off the hydros. It takes time to heal pain receptors and neurotransmitters....as we've been jackin w/ them for a LONG time.
Hope this helps....you definitely have put yourself thru some extremes in the last 6 weeks......give yourself time to level out and heal some.
Have fun in Pebble Beach......soak up some sunshine for me~
Clean_in_Kansas for the win! haha. I say that because yes, you nailed it. I'm probably not explaining myself as well as I could because I'm, well, going through a rough time and my head is foggy. You are correct after years of recreational abuse of pain killers... I got up to taking 150mg/day when I blew out my knee. And I stayed on that amount through a surgery... and then I added a bunch of Suboxone to the mix when I was still limping around. I was up to almost 40 pills a day just one month ago! And since there are no secrets here, some days I'd take up to 8mg of Suboxone. I'm so STUPID. And that's about 63 Norco pills a day. I can't believe I just wrote that. OMG. I'm shocking myself right now. Not that my behavior is excusable... but my surgeon said my knee had turned to concrete. One of the worst cases of tissue hardening he's seen, and this guy is a pretty famous Ortho who works on the sports teams here in SF. I was spiraling and desperate to escape my hell. I wanted to run away (LITERALLY) from my addiction. But neither my knee or my dependency would let me exercise to heal. As I read this comment, I see how emotional I'm getting... which means I'm no LONGER numb anymore! I would never have spent the day crying over this before. Now I'm a freaking faucet of tears. I don't even get me started on that Clydesdale commercial from the Superbowl last night. Buckets of tears. Anyway, I think I've put my little body through enough and I can maybe just hold strong at 60mg/day for a bit longer. I only weigh 115 pounds... I don't know if that makes a difference in how narcotics affect you. But I think I just need to breathe for a bit.... slow it down... THANK YOU AGAIN!!!! I'm going to go cry over something stupid now like an old photograph or another commercial now ;) xo
Ann, you will have so much fun! I'm happy for you!! My girlfriends and I do a trip every year. A few years ago we flew to South Beach. It's another world down there! I love it! This year because of my health we got a chalet on the ski slopes.. Not a far drive, and I can use the hot tub on the deck while they ski. I may try to go!
I understand the biatch thing. I'm usually so sweet, I wondered if I changed for good!
Ricart, I haven't ever said the name of my disease. It's probably silly, but I came on here, and it said don't use your name or anything.. Well my dx is so rare, that the Drs are treating me free. I'm kinda a test dummy. They are coordinating with the one of the few Dr's that studies it. He's out of state and I hope to visit soon. I was working at a hospital, a huge one, when this hit, and most of my co workers, including Dr's, had never heard of it. It's not even on this site. It took 6 months for a Dx. There is a positive test for it, just no treatment really. I know I'm being paranoid not saying, but I have no idea who's lurking. You all have become my family, but this Internet is ink. Hope that makes sense!
Miss_Creative, you have gotten the best advise here by these other members. As long as you don't go up, you're doing great on your taper. It takes a strong person to taper. And you are strong!! And don't ever say your whining. This is a heck of a fight your in. To have your Dr tell you that you may not be able to do what you love is devastating! We are all here for you. Keep posting. I truly believe you can have all the support in the world, but sometimes, most times during these early days, you need other's that have been there or are there and know exactly how you feel!
I tapered from almost 20 norco to 10 in a few weeks and jumped off 10 , 7 days ago! Immodium, Advil , heating pad, Epsom salt. Lots of Gatorade and listening to the 80s while sitting in the sun. Now it's not peaches and cream , my legs felt like jello and agitated as heck but read positive affirmations . Kept saying " I can do this" I'm doing this"
Barb, you're story - wow. Just wow. You are really overcoming so much. I pray they find a cure for your illness. I don't know if stem cells is something that would help - but we are getting closer to curing many diseases through that research (through animals and cord blood and synthesized stem cells as well, if stem cell is a touchy subject for religious reasons) - I hope science can make this breakthrough as it will help so many people that are living with chronic illnesses. All of you guys have come so far - how proud you must be :) Ann, have a blast on your trip! And Enuffisenough, yes! Good job my friend. Every success story inspires me to be a better person. Sorry if I'm not responding to all that posted - I can't keep up, but I re-read your answers all the time as I go to bed at night. Who am I kidding? I read them all day long over and over. THANK YOU THANK YOU EVERYONE! xo
Take it slowly....you dident become addicted overnight you wont get cured that way ether taper is slow and dilbert you cant go by how you feel with pills you just got to go slow and stedy wins the race ....when I tapered off methadone it took 8 1/2 mo to do it so keep your eyes on the prise YOU CAN DO THIS......Gnarly
When you made your original taper plan, did you consider this event and still decide to taper on the Wed before? If so I would stick with it but just go down a 1/2 a pill until the event is over. I have the same tendency to find excuses to avoid tapering. After this event I think clearing your schedule would be a good idea.
Copyright 1994-2016 MedHelp International. All rights reserved.
MedHelp is a division of Aptus Health.
This site complies with the HONcode standard for trustworthy health information.
The Content on this Site is presented in a summary fashion, and is intended to be used for educational and entertainment purposes only. It is not intended to be and should not be interpreted as medical advice or a diagnosis of any health or fitness problem, condition or disease; or a recommendation for a specific test, doctor, care provider, procedure, treatment plan, product, or course of action. Med Help International, Inc. is not a medical or healthcare provider and your use of this Site does not create a doctor / patient relationship. We disclaim all responsibility for the professional qualifications and licensing of, and services provided by, any physician or other health providers posting on or otherwise referred to on this Site and/or any Third Party Site. Never disregard the medical advice of your physician or health professional, or delay in seeking such advice, because of something you read on this Site. We offer this Site AS IS and without any warranties. By using this Site you agree to the following Terms and Conditions. If you think you may have a medical emergency, call your physician or 911 immediately.