Sub- does it help pain at all & need other pain relief advice

as i think I mentioned in my relapse post, i considered the possibility of Sub for the first time ever since I have been struggling so many years now with this addiction, and the fact that I do suffer from chronic pain (bad back). Im on day 8 now and getting pretty depressed that my back still hurts as bad as it does today. I was hoping it would subside more since my leg pains and other bodyaches have passed from the WD, but my spine stuff just wont go away. I am wondering again about Sub... because I cant go back to vicodin or its ilk, I cant take it as prescribed and I end up right back in teh same stupid boat every time. my main question is DOES SUB HELP WITH PAIN much?? I have heard differing opinions on this here, but if my memory is correct it seems that most people have said that it doesnt help that much with serious pain? Is that right? Also I know I've asked this here before over the last 2 years, but I will repeat it again- what have some of you chronic pain sufferers found that actually helps your pain that is not narcotic??? anythign?? God I hope I find something! Any input would be greatly appreciated here..

[ImGettingClean]

Hi Trouble, as far as Sub, I really dont know, but have you tried Yoga? Stretching and weight training really helps...also, if you can go swimming, helps tremendously...

Sorry if i couldn't be of n e more help...it's tough to deal with pain, especially when we know we can't just pop a pill and make it go away. :(

Nick

[Ali1226172]

Hey there... I may not be of much help but I am currently on suboxone after weening off oxy.  So far NO withdrawal and now ACHES.... just a bit emotional!! I too have a bad back and so far I am feeling alright... IDK if this helps!  Basically the Subs help with the withdrawal symptoms but they actually BLOCK pain meds from attaching....so if you NEED pain medication suboxone is not for you...
Have you tried Naxopren??  My mom taked that as NEEDED for her back and it does not produce any kind of high (Trust Me I've tried it lol)... GOOD LUCK TO U!!!!!!!!

[flmagi]

Sub does block pain to a certain extent, it also (like other opiates seem to do) blocks symtoms (symptoms) of flu , cold etc.  Doesn't do a thing for my migraines though....huh? wonder why.

[christos24]

i was on suboxone at its highest effective dose of 32mgs daily for over 9mths, i never relapse once, it was for a terribly heavy and severe addiction to heroin/oxycontin and i can tell you that suboxone is a very potent pain reliver..theyre are two types of subs, theyre is subutex which is purely the opioid drug--buprenorphine and then theyres suboxone which has buprenorphine then a small amount of naloxone, which is used as a way to deter ppl from abusing suboxone,cuz if they do try shooting it up the naloxone will become effective and naloxone is an opiate antagonist which is used for opiate overdoses in hospitals, but if taken properly sticking it under your tongue and let it dissolve which takes about 5 minutes only the buprenorphine is effective.
So in regards to your chronic pain, I actually think suboxone is the best choice for you because not only does it help incredibly with opiate addictions, but it also is a very potent long lasting opioid, its 25 times stronger than morphine so you ca imagine how much pain relief that would give you...just look up a suboxone doc or therapist and depending on how they feel after explaining your past with opiates, they will decide whether or not suboxone or subutex would be the best for you..that would the greatest thing you can do to solve your problems you are having...the only other pain reliving opiate that also treats addiction is methadone, which is very strong, has a higher level of dependency and addiction than suboxone and takes alot longer to wean off of, so i really think suboxone would be the best bet for you, but def. visit an addiction specialist and let them know what you are going through theyre there to help you..and also this forum is also a marvelous forum full of amazing people all helping each other, sharing experiences, and giving advice, were all a big family, and that right there aids in the mental aspect of addiction, so let me know if you need anything or any advice,and keep me posted on how your doing or what you are deciding what to do, i wish you the best of luck and im certain you'll be able to solve this with very little trouble whatsoever...Christos

[avisg]

sub is very expensisve .I would try everything you can before going back to the hydro or sub for the pain

[122 Tactical Fighter Group]

I tried it years ago as the European formulary Temgesic for pain......It didnt cut the mustard for pain for me.......but then again I developed a strong hydro habit instead.....IDK try the yoga, stretching, heat,cold.....all those things until you find the combination.  I also use Lidoderm Patches (lidocaine transdermal) stuff numbs you up similar to what the dentist would do.... I also had medium luck with the Capsaicin (pepper juice?) stuff that Walgreens carries.....Might want to think of a yoga ball for exercises if you dont have one.

[troubleinohio]

thanks so much you guys for your input! Christos Im glad to hear it has helped you so much. I remember you from way back on this forum and you always have a good in depth reponse to things! I appreciate it so much. I am very much re-considering this Sub option. Its so weird to me because I used to be against it pretty strongly. I just thought it was kinda silly to switch one addiction for another and that you have to go off it eventually anyways and suffer WD.   But when certain people get to a point where they are absolutely mutilating their livers to mush, depleting every dollar and cent, ruining their lives and families over their pills,  then another lesser evil may be the only way out. At least with Sub, there's no Aceto to kill your liver with anymore, it cures the cravings, the WD symptoms and apparently helps with pain too.  Can anyone give me ideas on price range? I know its very expensive, but exactly how expensive is it??

[122 Tactical Fighter Group]

You have me a bit confused here, trouble..... are you looking for multi-purpose therapy - - or take for pain med - or take for addiction situation?  Methadone is also a viable alternative for pain and for addiction.  Dont recall the price of sub .....but I think methadone is cheaper....  The reason methadone is used more for pain these days is because its so user friendly. I suppose a large thing to consider would be what long term goals are..... whether or not you are taking it with the intention of not taking it at some point in time. If its for pain, is the pain curable? And is it chronic? Sounds like you are doing your homework....thats the best thing to do - - check out all of your options ..... Every SubDoc has to take a couple free patients as part of their agreement - - if you qualify keep checking around until you find one that still has an opening........ I believe SUBOXONE.COM has most of the information......

[allaboutmary]

The 8mg sub runs about 6 dollars a pill. Just a ruff guestimate you would probably need 4mg per day. (that's just my guess from what I remember about your intake of pills).  Just trying to give you an idea of what it would cost per month. .......the doctor visits seem to vary greatly though.

[troubleinohio]

Eagle- i guess i would consider it multi-purpose therapy/maintenance. I have a very bad back- multiple bulging/*(ruptured?) discs, DDD, arthritis of entire spine, mild scoliosis and something else I can remember the name of that showed up on MRI too. I have constant daily back pain and also bouts of excrutiating 'back attacks" that leave me laid out flat for 5-10 days at a time unable to breathe even the pain is so bad. thankfully those attacks have been less frequent than they used to be, but i do get them still sometimes. But mainly, I have the every day pain predominantely in my lower back but also upper and neck. The lower back is what does me in though. Any housework, chores, prolonged walking/standing/laying aggravates it. Anyhow-- I cant get anything done due to the pain without something for relief- HOWEVER, no matter how hard I try, I cannot seem to stick to prescribed dosages of narcotics. Whenever I get them, I start going overboard and before I know it, Im back to where i was 2+years ago, eating them like candy and not able to hack the WD's and go back to using every time.  The last round, I even had a family member dole out my daily doses, but i ended up finding another source for extras and just went wild with them.  So i made myself quit yet again, 8 days ago now. my back is killing me again, and im scared I'll end up going back to the narcotics yet again and I CANNOT keep doing that. I CANT. My liver must be nearly junk by now and Im scared to even get any bloodwork done to find out.
soooooooo this is why I am seriously considering Sub. If it works the way its supposed to, I guess it would take away my cravings AND most importantly help my pain without killing my liver.  ANother question is this-- if it doesnt help my pain as much as I'd hoped it would--and i was on it for awhile-would i be able to take a narcotic again if i had a bad back attack or other serious injury that required immediate pain relief? How long does it stay in your system? Since it blocks other opiates, it kinda scares me if i were on it and something happened where i needed immediate severe pain relief , i wouldnt be able to take anything until the Sub wore off?  I have alot of questions about Sub still. I guess I will find a website that explains it thoroughly before I start searching for doctors in my area and making a final decision. I really appreciate everyone's input so far!

[122 Tactical Fighter Group]

I need to look at this more closely myself, also. SubDoc Jeff on the expert side has always said that he has patients discontinue sub immediately prior to an operation....... but you cant very well schedule all your pain or else you would avoid it!!  Sub has been used for pain in Europe for a few years. Its being prescribed for pain more often in the US and there are a huge amount of clinical trials going on for pain management.........But it didnt work for me back when I tried it. For some of the reasons that concern you.....its not a "take as needed for pain" type of medication.   I should think that methadone would be my choice for long term use today - - although everything that I did try was before I got off the other narc's - so who knows? May even work for me today!  Keep doing your homework - - you have to arm yourself with knowledge these days - - the company site is SUBOXONE.COM - - so be on the look out for propaganda also..... Its really so refreshing to see an intelligent pro-active patient!  Would be nice if there were more of you around, trouble  - - -  Oh yeah .....  dont ever forget that heat/cold - and stretching work very well..... I already know that you exercise vigerously every day!!

[mtgoat911]

hey troubleinohio, i am not up the events leading to this relaspe, so i am just speaking in general terms , most of the people i know who abused pain medication also do the same with their matience drugs, it may take a year or 10 years but most of the time tollerance builds and the need to take more becomes over-whelming, once one graduates to methadone or suboxone their tollerance becomes very high, out of all the opiates i have ever been on these drugs were the strongest and hardest to get off of,
i only mention this because you have explained on previous post that you know you cannot sucessfully take narcotics in any form
at first they helped with pain,(back, neck, sport injury and hep) then i needed more and more, when i started on sub my doctor told me that i would not build a tollerance on the drug, went into ceiling affect and many reason why this drug does not induce a tollerence, but it did, i went from needing 2 mgs a day to 32mgs a day in less than a year,
at first it helped with pain, then i started having problems with my vision, liver levels, energy, and mood, i was depressed and tired all the time, eventually i got so sick i had to stop it, i am grateful i did take the suboxone, because my experience has benifited others,
so maybe you need to experience the sub detox to get to where you are heading in life, i dont know, but i do know it takes what it takes
latley i have been looking for alternative treatments instead of running to western medicine everytime i have a problem, now when i am feeling sick or in pain i can usually follow it back to something in my life that is out of balance, when my pain flares up now its usually because i need to exersice or relax, but early in recovery i did experience a good bit of rebound pain,
these are all just thoughts that i have, addiction is so difficult to treat, add a chronic pain or illness and the matter becomes complicated, to sub or not to sub is really a personal choice, no one can tell you what to do, only share what they have been through

[mtgoat911]

is sub really only 6 bucks a day now? 5 yrs ago it was 30

[Allicat0117]

I am on 8mg of suboxone/day and it does help with my back pain. Occasionally I will have to take some tylenol if I am doing some heavy duty cleaning  or something. Of course it does not help as well as the hydros but it does help for me. It is expensive though. My script is well over $300. (not as expensive as my drug habit though)

[tryinhard78]

Hey there I just wanted to add my 2 cents here..I take 8 to 10 mgs of sub a day ( Dr wants me on 16 but way to high of a dose) and it helps alot with my pain and I have no cravings for anything else...About a month ago my back went out and I couldn't walk or stand without someone holding onto me so I did have to take 3 roxis for the pain...My Dr approved me to take them and I only needed the 3 and they did help with the pain I did not crave anymore after I took those. The main reason I decided to go on sub was because I couldn't take the pain meds as prescribed and I was always in w/d or relapsing...Dr.'s do not recommend sub for detox anymore so you would be hard pressed to find one to do short term use...If you do choose sub you will more than likely be on it for awhile so its good to do your homework on it. I know for me it has saved my life.

        Sub is pretty expensive my script was running over $500 a month but more and more ins. companies are starting to cover it and I have heard a generic is coming out in the fall. I was able to do mail order this month and it only cost $48...Huge difference. I wish you luck with whatever you decide...I struggled with to sub or not to sub for about 2 years so I know how you feel. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
  Good Luck, Susie

[troubleinohio]

just wanted to update a lil...i decided not to go the Sub route for many reasons. Im going to have to make it without any drugs and just pray my back doesnt make me want to shoot myself. Im 2 weeks clean again now and Ive had about one day so far where my back wasnt killing me so maybe theres hope I CAN have some good days without debilitating pain. It does hurt pretty bad again today but thats cuz its so humid out and rained alot yesterday.