Suboxene the "NEW" methadone

[godezzofchaos]

Is it just me or does it seem like Suboxene is NOW , what methadone used to be?  I just read a post that said "what is the harm in staying on it , at a low dose if it keeps you clean"  well that is EXACTLY how (my clinic anyway) looks at MMT(methadone maintence). I for one think there is absolutly nothing wrong with taking it everyday if you use it the way it should be...addiction is a disease, that perhaps we have finally found the treatment for.  No one downs a diabetic for taking their insulin??  Just a thought.  It will be interesting to see what the consensus is on Suboxene 10 years from now...as we all know ..hind sight is 20/20!!!

[avisg]

I think you will be correct .I would like to see them add some type of addiction therapy requirement to continue to use it .

[LB5060]

Suboxone has saved my life and given me a normal life again. If I need a maintenance dose the rest of my life then I will definitely take one as needed.  I have tried to quit opiates SO MANY TIMES and failed repeatedly and this is the only thing that has worked for me.  I am already slowing down my Suboxone dosage and I am almost two months clean. I do think with Suboxone you have to truly want to be clean because I  know people who only use it when they can't get opiates and that is really heartbreaking to me but I guess it is just because they are still searching to alter their mind in some capacity and Suboxone doesn't provide that feeling.  I do worry about long term side effects but to me, right now, the risk of them is so incredibly low compared to the ultimate death I face if I return to a life of pills.

[Larry090]

You are now addicted to Suboxone, its the devil,  your just fooling yourself thinking your clean.. Your not, and the WDS are torture. Suboxone should only be used on a short term taper ( 10-20 days ) Myself the Suboxone worked OK for 4 months, but then started making me sick and always tired. I wanted my life back not a new addiction. I went back on Norco to get off Suboxone then beat Norco with a taper and much torture. Good Luck you'll need it.......

[avisg]

Why is it that when ever a discussion on sub comes up that people can not respect others opinions .If it works for LB and it what he/she has chosen then while some might not agree every ones opinions need to be respect there is no reason that we should not be able to discuss this without major drama.Agree to disagree .

[Kova]

hi all,

i agree with avsig.  this Sub conflict has been raging since i've been posting.  although i do agree that it is addictive as well and i think it has actually prolonged my WDs from methadone, it is a highly indiviual choice and has seemed to have helped some people live a better life.  who am i to deny anyone that choice?

Kova

[Coolio Hernendez]

Come on LARRY.....that was a little harsh.

What you ment to say was......Suboxone is really addictive so be careful  i beat it by going back on norco once i had myself under control thanks to suboxone.

I'm sure that what you ment to say.

LB really helped save my life and was there with the info i needed to make the hard choice and i will always have her back for that.

[theeagle]

The whole debate is screwy....you need to do what works for you. For some that will be cold turkey - for some a good taper - others may use sub (preferably not for multiple years) or methadone just as sub would be used. I tried each way myself.....relapsed every time until I myself (operative word here is I)  was truly ready to quit. And the last time (over a year ago) it was plain cold turkey that worked for me.......Sometimes I feel like we are fighting each other --- we should not do that - but the feelings are so strong with this issue that it goes nuclear as soon as its brought up -  come on folks....support each other !!! That doesnt mean that you cant have an opinion.................eagle

[avisg]

good post

[Coolio Hernendez]

Yeah...it turns into people picking sides.....Suboxone on one side and CT on the other side. Its like politics the left and right.

Now we gotta get past this....People who dont believe inusing subs...just get on and let the person know your concerns and people who believe in subs just let people who dont express thier views.

We are all in this together and it always boiles down to one thing when you are hear....you were looking for advise on a forum about drug addiction......We all seem to have that incommon.

[refusingbondage]

I feel the worst thing concerning the subs is the lack of truth to what they are selling.  this drug was given to me to "cure my addiction" by a doctor I trusted very much.  i was told the entire time i was on it (about 16 months) that it was a very mild drug used to treat wd and non addictive.  i was told i would have little to no problem getting off of it.  i did a little research on it and all the 'officical' information and literature I read seemed to support that (I should have come to this forum in the beginning).  I cannot say I dont believe in using the subs and I am sure it is the only way for some however the doctors who are toting this as a miracle drug are not being honest with us.  for me personally i would have just gone ct off the drugs cause I only sought out subs to not feel wd. but i was ready to quit back then.  and now having to quit the subs brings the worst wd ive ever had.  again this was not represented to me by my doctor.  not once over the whole 16 monhs..its very much a wolf in sheeps clothing in my opinion.

[Shelwoy]

There has been significant advances made medically with addiction and how it affects the brain.I am sure there will be new methods of treatment and hopefully they will be even better than the one's we have access to.There is talk of vaccines for certain addictions.My greatest hope is that it gets better.
I strongly advise anyone who is in medically assisted treatment to educate themselves on any drug they put in their body.I would never fully trust a doctor without getting my own information, and everyone else should do the same.If a doctor tells you this is a cure, they are wrong!! Educate yourself.Suboxone is a recovery tool-nothing more.

[godezzofchaos]

HURRAY!!  Thus debate is EXACTLY WHY I posted this comment!  I have heard the same negative comments towards me about my choice to use methadone and it always baffles me how anyone could negate my sobriety as not legit!  I had to still make different choices, I had to pick different friends, I had to NOT use anything else...I appauld anyone who makes the choice not to use ILLEGAL drugs or legal drugs ILLEGALLY....methadone did for me what the earlier poster says Suboxene is doing for them..so to that I say CONGRATULATIONS, and do not let anyone steal your THUNDER!!!

PS>  AMEN AVISG!!!  Opinions are like A55holes...everyone has them!!!

[Coolio Hernendez]

Are you sober now ?

Just wonder.....My brother-in-law has a major opiate problem and has no way to afford Suboxone but his doctor can do the methadone treatment.....I have never heard anything good about methadone and i heard you get high on it...That would be bad for this kid cause he will abuse it if it gets him high...

[theeagle]

Goddezz mentioned previous post that she's doing 150mg methadone now. Dont know if you consider that sober. For myself, if she got away from what brought her here - most likely other opiates - then she is good to go.............

Good post earlier. This is a fight that we need to be united on. We just waste ether when we squabble about picky stuff......you may not have heard much good about methadone - but - how much good have you heard about a solid opiate habit?

[sadinmichigan]

what ever happened to old fasioned guts a determination with quitting drugs? it's not easy and in most cases we did it to ourselves..even if first taken for pain. What if these other addicting drugs (more addicting)such as methadone and suboxone were not available?? I am not saying that methadone and suboxone do not have their place..but they are both over prescribed and to people such as myself that was simply taken hydros..just a thought. i am not bashing so there is no need to be defensive..you all know how I feel and have been respectful of that and i thankyou..

[avisg]

i agree with sad there really needs to be a criteria for when these drugs are used .i am sorry but someone going off of say 50mg of hydro and are given sub or methadone are jumping from frying pan into a very large fire .

[BULLDOGSOUTH]

if you are gonna take sub. or methondone you mine as well be on the other pills you were taking before as both of them are just as bad in my opinion your still on pills

[BULLDOGSOUTH]

you cannot take an opiate replacement a say your clean you can argue till your blue in the face but you are not clean

[avisg]

Why does it matter .. If you are not taking either of these meds. I cant see where it should matter what others do or say .They are taking care of there recovery the way it works for them .

[BULLDOGSOUTH]

THATS NOT RECOVERY IS WHAT IM SAYING THATS JUST USEING A NEW DRUG

[scarlett_nothing]

i find the often spoken of diabetic/insulin argument a little flawed. i used to quote it myself as a reason why i needed to stay on methadone treatment for my opiate addiction, and even drug workers use it- they say, think of yourself as a diabetic who needs insulin shots for their body to function, you have a chemical imbalance that needs methadone maintenance to help you function..
but in the end, diabetics will die without their insulin. opiate addicts, whilst w/d is horrid, it will rarely kill. our bodies will eventually repair and adjust to no opiates, a diabetics, particularly type1, will not. they will die.

i do believe mmt probably did save my life, at the time, and i am thankful for that, but i was upped way too high, unnecessarily, and stayed on way too long, believing i couldn't live life without it. these withdrawals are horrible, but i will repair.

[ochooked]

I suppose that the debate sometimes gets a little intense ----- there seems to me to be two sides on the Sub question ----- One is from those who had a nightmare experience with it and the other side is those who are still on it.   I have seen very few post a positive experience after coming off Sub----- why is that??  I know that many on the site post their negative experience with Sub, but I really feel that they do so in an attempt to help others --- not to criticize or do harm.  That was my case as I am having such a difficult time since it has now been 24 days since my last Sub 'crumb', and I still have W/D's.   I agree that there are some who overdo it on the debate, but please - just lets be civil -- not silence anyone who may feel strongly for or against Sub.  All the best guys.  This is still the premier site for addiction that exists on the internet.  All the best.

[godezzofchaos]

Wow, thank you so much everyone for the respectful input, I truly enjoy hearing everyone's view. I would like to say a sincere thank you to Sad especially. While I am WELL AWARE of her view on this matter, and I think by now she knows mine, she is always classy and respectful in her responses...this is a lesson Bull might need to learn.

Now, to answer Coolio ..I am sober. Since begining my treatment in 2000 I have never touched another drug or alcohol for that matter...in fact, I only need visit my clinic once a month because I have always had clean drug screens and good "bottle checks". I do agree that methadone should not be used arbitrarily, I myself was a herion addict. I chose the methadone program  because I was/am a single mom, with NO family or friends (moved to TN not knowing a SOUL) and could NOT lay sick. It worked for me. Now yes, it is 8 years later and I am stronger and now the time is coming for me to conquer the next battle in this war.  But to answer Sad's questions.."true guts", just wasn't an option back then,

Thank you all for your opinions and let's take a lesson from SAD, AVISG, KOVA and all the others who participate in these discussions with the same common goal...to support and be there for one another!!  We have all been "judged" for so long...let's not do it here!!!

[sadinmichigan]

thankyou so much..I really do appreciate you saying that..and we are both well aware of what we believe..I am not bashing at all and I think (or hope ) you know that..there is a place for these drugs and in such cases..I do believe that they help some people..and I am all for someone getting off a dangerous life style that may end in their death if they continued. I certainly understand that..and even more so since I have heard some very heart shattering accounts. But..I think it (sub and meth) is way over prescribed and many many people like myself have been tricked into thinking it is the end all to their drug addiction.For me..it was the last chance..I was begging for help with the mainstream medical community and they would not help me unless I was inpatient..which my insurance just covered a portion. I begged on my hands and knees for somene to help..then..i found a woman that told me about methadone. I wish I could blame her 100%..but I can't. I knew it was used to help heroin addicts..but I felt desperate.  I wasn't thinking...i had a guy write me a letter recently to ask me  what was I trying to prove???? I wasn't trying to prove anything. I had no med-help  I had nobody that even knew I was taking methadone..including my own mother to talk to..i was all alone. I listened to heroin addicts daily at the clinic...that said all they had to say..and scared me to death. I decided..that I had to take the plunge..like I have stated over and over..i did NOT know..to the extent in which I would be sick...so please...make an informed decision...and a special thanks to Godezz for being such a class act..

[godezzofchaos]

Aww and thank you!  I 100000% agree with you that this medication is WAYYYYY over prescribed. I am astonished at the number of patients my clinic has grown to ..well over 3000 PLUS patients since I began in 2000. This is not an exageration, we are numbered when we begin and my number is in the low 2000's and they are now numbering in the 5000's!  I looked around and see YOUNG (late teens, early 20's) joining and even know of one case where the girl was too young and her parents had to sign..to me this is a TRAVESTY!  As I said, I was/am (40 next month) and really had no other recourse.  Now, I do believe and opiate is an opiate, whether it be in pill form or heroin...and I don't think one is easier than then other to "kick", but I DO think that rather than having an open door policy , stiffer requirements should be inacted and more education should be provided for those considering this route. From what I see this seems to be the same for Suboxene as well (although I admittedly know NOTHING about the drug).

Anyway, again, I thoroughly enjoy your point of view and reading your journals SAD, I do know and respect your view and as we all learn more and see thru  other's eyes, only then can we hope to one day find a cure that works for us ALL!  

[sadinmichigan]

thankyou so much...it really means lot to me..

[worried878]

great discussion....sub can be a great tool for getting clean...but in reality...*** for tat...it is no better/nor worse than methadone if used correctly/they r both the same type of narcotic/long half life and neither is easy to get off of when addicted//a real bear/and both provide not much of an high and block receptors/just different dugs with methadone having a bad reputation probably just becuase it is an old drug with more stats behind it /methadone was originally a pain control drug in europe that the USA used as treatment due to the long half life//methadone is not a great high or u would have lines in front of every clinic/it is a pain drug used for maintenence/or pain considering the circumstance/ just like sub///a sub user is no diffferent than a methadone user...the forum has always been anti-methadone and...so so on sub...a friend of mine  is on methadone long term..she posted once and was bashed and never came back..."methadone is so evil...it will take forever to get off '  etc....i do believe both have a place in recovery....no reason for "bashment" of either...But also realizing/understanding what u r on..the strength of it and the wd that are iminent if u choose to stay on either one of these drugs long term is imperitive to the person who chooses this route..sub is .'Glorified"  maybe...people often dont look at being on Sub the same way as being on methadone...but it is the same if u understand the mechanisms of each...they r very similar...just some stigma associated with methadone more so than sub...ten years from now it will be sub that carries the stigma...neither here nor there....both have their place in recovery...whether it be short term or long term....educating urself that skipping wds from a relatively low quantity a day habit because u fear discomfort for a few days can be dangerous if u dont know what ur doing/with eitherdrug...to me they r in the same category...education and circumstances vary...everyone is different

[godezzofchaos]

I totally agree with you WORRIED...in 10 years SUB will have the stigma. I am sorry for your friend's experience and perhaps we can encourage her to come back, as I think through mutual respect we can ALL gain knowledge and KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!  I feel her pain, I have been on methadone for 8 years at the SAME dose of 150mg, I too get "bashed" from time to time, but I just have to chuckle to myself and remember .."those who live in glass houses ..should NOT throw stones!!"

[sadinmichigan]

LOL..I have to say. i think this is the first time that we were all able to have a calm discussion about this. I am happy about that..job well done my friends..As we all have stated..we need to help each other and inform one another best we can with respect and kindness, since we are all here for a common goal. Love you all...Lisa

[godezzofchaos]

Well, ya know it all comes down to INDIVIDUALIZED treatment. With this disease there is no BLANKET way that works for everyone. It's only through discussions and sharing ideas and experiences that we can hopefully one day find something that cures this disease ONCE AND FOR ALL!  Until then , my friend SAD said it best....WELL DONE!!

[avisg]

yeah hopefully discussions like this can contue this helps people understand and make informed decisions that is the best for them .There is no reason this can't continue people should not be afraid to voice there opinions out of fear of being attacked

[ochooked]

Totally agree with Avis 100% ----- This has been one of those threads where, for the most part, everyone can express their view and no one gives or receives offense --.  This is the 'model' for the whole site and I am proud to be here --- -- I received so much from the people on this site as I had a chance to see 'big' hearts ----- and I received so much help and encouragement ---- I am so impressed with those who got clean and then returned to help others who still struggle.  All the best.

[godezzofchaos]

So glad you all enjoyed the thread..ya never know when ya post a comment. Thanks for the love and support everyone, as a current methadone user I cannot tell you how refreshing it is to FINALLY have support...being in AGREEMENT with my choice is different than SUPPORTING my choice, once we all learn and know the difference true acceptance can be had.  I have that from you guys, and especially from my new and hopefully lasting friendship with SAD. She and I are on complete opposite sides of the spectrum, a sort of "RECOVERY ODD-COUPLE" but we agree to listen and support and I value her views and input, as I know she does mine. Thanks again!!

[Coolio Hernendez]

Yeah...this post is what its all about.

Its cool that someone on methadone got to tell their story without being attacked. I bet this post will really open some eyes and change the way people comment here...i hope

[sadinmichigan]

I felt the need to bring this post..BTT  because this is the way these discussions about methadone and suboxone should go.....a few may want to take note...this is the nicest post I think we have had on this subject since I have been here since January..thanks again Goddezz for posting this..you rock..

[LB5060]

Thanks to those of you that understand what I am saying and for having my back (Coolio you ROCK!). I am not adicted to the Suboxone and even if I was it is a hell of a better choice than being addicted to opiates! I am no longer draining my bank account, doing crazy **** to get pills, doctor shopping, lying to everyone, spending my entire day trying to make a deal happen and I could go on and on but anyone who has been really addicted to opiates knows what type of life that is.  I honestly don't care what anyone thinks of me for using Suboxone but I know it has changed (saved) my life and if I had continued down the path I was on that I would be facing imminent death.  The only reason I am posting to defend my choice is the fact that I would hate to see someone come to this board looking for help and read what a few ignorant people have posted about Suboxone (or methadone) and then make a choice to stay on the opiates instead of getting help because they feel like Suboxone/methadone is evil, etc.  Whatever works to keep you off the pills has got to be a better choice.  I extensively researched Suboxone and the doctors that prescribed it before making my decision and I am 100% confident that I made the right one.  

[GoingToMakeIt]

Good for you getting your life back! You have made a very good choice. It is for your type of use and addiction that Sub should be used. Personally I oppose it's use for the person who is not a 'hardcore' addict or has not even tried to quit a couple of times yet.

[godezzofchaos]

FIRST, Thank you SAD for your continued and unwavering support...you are the best!  I cannot take the credit for this post, although I began the orginal thread, everyone has been so respectful in listening to each other's stories...I applaud you all!!

LB5060, my story is very similar to yours in that methadone did for me what Suboxene did for you, so I fully support your choice.  I think what this entire thread has succeded in doing is bring the fact that EACH PERSON and SITUATION IS DIFFERENT, therefore their detox and recovery will be as unique as they are.  

I'm proud of everyone, and wish there were more people like the ones who shared here..YOU ALL ROCK!!

Regards,
Cyndi

PS>  Sad you are an inspiration and I admire your character. I'm proud to call you a friend!

[LB5060]

My doctor has told me that wd from Suboxone does not have to be miserable if it is done correctly.  In the past people were treated with Sub for about 20 days and then barely tapered and then stopped and the wds were horrible and the patient ends up seeking the opiates again to not be sick.  My doctor is a firm believer in doing it EXTREMELY slow and I have talked to many people now that did the very slow tapering method and did not have ANY withdrawl symptoms at all so that is encouraging to me.

[avisg]

LB, slow is the best way I truly hope you have little or minimal wd .We have had  long term users have there fair share of wd coming off of it. Everybody's body is different as well as having different doctors. I hope it goes smoothly for you when you decide to stop taking it .

[LB5060]

Our situations are a lot alike! Who are we to tell anyone that the way they got sober is wrong?  I personally tried quitting many, many times and was not able to do it.  I also didn't have the time to lie around for 2-3 weeks (or longer because I was a HEAVY user)and be sick because I have kids, job and responsibilities and nobody to help.  I once quit for an entire week and saw no end in sight with the withdrawls so I made one simple phone call and within an hour I had my pills and felt great again and I was right back in that sick world.  I have been researching Suboxone the last few years and once I was ready I was extremely fortunate to find a compassionate doctor that isn't in it just for the money.  The key to any success program is to truly being mentally ready. If you aren't there mentally then I don't think you will be successful long term with any program. You have to do it for yourself.
To everyone on here who is sober...regardless of how they got there...you should be very proud of yourselves.  To anyone that is needing help and turns to this forum please know that it can be done. Research different options and find what will work for you and we will all be here to support you!

[Sunnyd210]

Well since we are having a nice discussion :) I wanted to share that I used methadone to get off norcos and it worked great for me. I think both sub and meth are great tools if used correctly and unfortunatly drs dont prescribe them the right way and it ends up making things worse. I was on a low dose of methadone and tapered weekly for a month. I still went through withdrawels from the norco but not as bad as I wouldve w/out the methadone.

[godezzofchaos]

I hope I am misunderstanding your post LB5060..I NEVER HAVE TOLD ANYONE THAT HOW THEY GOT SOBER IS WRONG!  Perhaps I am misunderstanding..lol, alot gets lost over a keyboard!  

Our stories are very similiar and I am glad to hear that others have had success with such controversial drugs!  

I'm at work..gotta run! Sorry if I misunderstand your post, perhaps I'm PARANOID!!  lmao

[theeagle]

About just using your DOC instead of going on a substitute ... whomever said that (BULLDOG) does not know the physiological differences between long term use of hydro, oxy or whatever compared to the use of either sub or meth.....the others are much harder on your body....thats a good reason to switch....

[godezzofchaos]

^5 EAGLE!!  

[worried878]

Eagle and I talk about these choices often/hope u dont mine my sharing/ (:  we are both chronic pain patients with a past addiction....i have told him that if i ever have to use to keep working..then it would also be a choice for life as I would not plan to detox..so i doubt this decision will ever be made ...but if i had to i would choose methadone due to the higher pain relief properties/it would be my only reasonable choice...meth is hard t get off of but so is sub with long use /high doses...like i said that would be when i knew i would never quit...and it is fiction to me as i hope that day never comes

[mr.lucky66]

Long term sub and methadone are viewed as harm redution therapy by the medical community. They are supposed to be used as a treatment of last resort for the addicts who have failed mulitple times. If someone fits that criteria, I think it's fine to take these drugs instead of the alternitive. I can't say if someone is clean or not while on sub or methadone and that's for them to decide. Most people on the meth clinics I was on weren't clean as they smoked pot, drank , took pills ect along with the done. I'm all for someone if they take sub or done because they can't stop as long as they don't get high on other drugs.

[botchedup]

The fear of and the torture of withdrawals (add to that chronic pain) and we all have ourselves in a bit of a pickle don't we?  After multiple surgeries, hospitializations, plastics, Anesthesia,morphine, pain pills, patches, doctors, clinics, etc., I can pretty much say with much assurance that suboxone can be a  decent recovery tool HOWEVER, you need to take the time to educate yourself on dosage, half life, agonistic properties, etc.  With chronic pain dependence is inevitable, and when one's dosage for pain is losing it's efficacy you have a few choices.  Time released long acting opioids, methadone, or Bupe.  Of course Buprenorphine (Subutex/Suboxone) produces analgesia, it's been used in European countries for decades. It produces no euphoria and causes constipation.  When I was facing more surgery, I had to w/d off of Bupe using Oxycodone7.5/325, only instead of prescribing the 3 to 4 a day, the Doctor wrote the script for double my original dose.  I was NEVER told that the the Bupe was so much stronger( six months on it), only that it was "different" due to properites and mean half life.  There are MANY reasons why dr.s aren't giving the specifics-too many to list but $$$, DEA, FDA, and $$$!.  I was introduced to Bupe in 2005, Stigma's here kids.  Just last spring there was an article in my local paper about it, no mention of "miracles", tried and true european analgesic, just a newbie to the black market of junkie's and drug addicts. My  Dr.'s office for the longest time did not require me to sign any contracts because he feared the stigma I would suffer at the hands of other doctor's and surgeons.  Another Doc who filled in one time told me she wasn't comfortable with the Bupe because of it's ceiling effect and that addicts were overdosing, I was horrified because I thought taking a pain pill on sub would throw me into w/d's, but no, it's just blocked some so you feel it just enough to maybe start that "frequent dosing" that can be VERY dangerous.   Needless to say the nurse was not happy that she told me that.  So, I was definitely led to believe wrong information so I wouldn't "mess up".  So Doc prescribes it  "off label" for pain.  There is nothing like it for chasing away the withdrawals, and having to be in FULL W/D makes that first Bupe appt feel like a miracle.  You instantly feel how you did before you ever took one! That's the thing,,I am a chronic pain patient but I know that what opiates do to our brains is inevitable.  PROPER opiate therapy has been proven to actually cure chronic pain but that is only when it is supervised by a doctor and is opiates not opioids.  I'm sure that there are not many doctors in the US who are able or willing to do this so again, facing chronic pain?  legal choices are: time released long acting synthetics (ms contin) or time released long acting synthetics (methadone).  Chronic pain is a disease just as addiction is.  For the chronic pain patient, they go hand in hand.  Many refuse to admit this but eventually, if you are 60 yrs or younger, and have non-cancerous chronic pain, you're going to have to make the decision to be a lifer, or to find another way to deal.. I do not say this lightly or without compassion, I am missing body parts.  Bupe definitely has antidepressant properties as well. The w/d's are a bit reminiscent of how you feel when your doc puts you on tramadol/ultram to deal with issues of your tolerance or his license:)  Until the jury is in, ( or Harvard Med School proves it) on whether long term opiate/opioid use permanently changes brain chemistry, My experience and opinion is this:  Opiates occur naturally in the body, If any human takes any amount at regular intervals, in the absence of moderate to severe ACUTE pain, dependence and addiction set in.  I've heard it put this way, (figuratively) "Taking opioids, with no pain present, the brain 'grows' receptors that need to be fed".  Nobody needs to be a hero when it comes to quitting opiates either.  Withdrawals are inevitable....common sense says, the slower the taper, the easier it is. I assume this accounts for most of the testimonials that w/d's are easier on Sub, but I 'd bet it's probably more likely the doctor and the office setting, Insurance covers it for most and if not it pays out the ###!  I'd bet as well that the most torturous withdrawals have been at the hands of many a medical professional with no humanity and 3 credits of "abberrant drug behavior" taught now to medical students under the Bush administration.  Nice huh? I digress.  Knowing in your heart and planning for the length of time the withdrawals will last.  So to my peers out there in "wondering about Suboxone-Subutex-Buprenorphine, In my humble(and I do mean humble) opinion:  For me:  If you've had a > or =  30-50 mg habit of 6mo - 5 yrs, and you are on your way up, having symptoms of hyperalgesia, you have a doctors office, and you want to maintain, or HAVE to maintain but truly want to feel "normal" and "sober" even, and you will, AND you are willing to accept that you are by most people's standards not really clean, (not that you should care but always be prepared for stigma in any type of "recovery") AND depending on your dose and frequency, may possibly be putting something even stronger in your body, I'd say go for it.  Any taper is tough and with Bupe and a GOOD doc, It's no worse and no better than coming off a short acting full agonist, they both suck!  And to top it all off, I'd say for every year of toll on the body, there's six months to repair, so 7 years--3 1/2 to fully recover.  Remember tho, the body doesn't like shock.  Prepare and plan your withdrawal carefully, don't be afraid to ask for help, be patient and treat yourself like a patient, baby yourself, say no to others, take this time for yourself so you can go on being there for your loved ones for years to come.  One last important thing: I know I know we hear it all the time but tis true:  Exercise is a great replacement for anything but especially for us, endorphins do naturally what opioids do synthetically, endorphins make you feel high, and give you long lasting boosts of energy.  Fill that void with exercise and you'll have a leg up on it I promise.  

[rhino21]

I think that our situation,limits and dictates our options ,Goddezz,hasnt the luxary to just drop everything and detox off methadone...but I think she would if she could.
Ideally we all want to reclaim the ability to wake in the morning,only having to face the things life throw at us before drugs entered our lives.and deal with day to day events.
To get back home is often impossible.So,we go forward the best we can.
Rhino

[LB5060]

Yes, you misunderstood and I typed that line in the wrong place...sometimes my hands type faster than my brain thinks and often I am too lazy to go back and proofread what I just wrote before posting!

That statement was not directed at you....it was just a general statement and should have been for another post :-)  I was just stating who am I (or anyone) to judge another person? We all have the same goal in mind and how we get there is a personal choice and journey and I want everyone to be supportive of an individual's choice :-)

[avisg]

LB its happens to  all of us   my hands are so much slower then my brain its funny for me to sometimes look at what have have written my brain will be a sentance ahead of what I have written .one of these days I am going to get one of the progarms that I talk and it types LOL