To answer wait2long's question from another thread "why aren't Benzo's allowed with Suboxone & Subutex?":
Between the time my doctor suggested I begin Suboxone to the time I started, I read EVERYTHING I could find online about it. I waded through some pretty heavy medical stuff, medical dictionary in my lap. While certainly no expert, I think I'm pretty well-read on the subject.
As I recall, I read an explanation of the "No Benzo's" rule in the PDR and other sources as well. This is my understanding of it:
Buprenorphine, the active drug in Suboxone and the only drug in Subutex, has been around for many years. It was used only for pain, usually postoperative, and was only available in injectable form. Only in recent years has its value as an opiate detox drug been recognized.
As usual, it was used in European countries long before our FDA approved it for detox and maintenance. Americans are usually the last to get new, useful drugs. In the beginning of the AIDS crisis there were several new drugs being used in Europe successfully, but the FDA said "too soon, we're not done testing!" That's when the "Fast Track" program began, to force the FDA to speed things up and get important new meds to Americans who needed them.
Before Suboxone and Subutex was being used in US, it seems two or three junkies in France died from shooting up huge quantities of buprenorphine along with huge quantities of a Benzo. That is the only explanation I have read. I told my doctor this, what I had read, and he didn't tell me I was wrong; all he said was "well, it's against the protocol."
My conclusion is that's how the "Big Benzo Rule" began, from the FDA looking at a couple of cases in France. So with one stroke of the pen, they disallowed all Benzo's from the Suboxone program, before they would be willing to approve it. The FDA didn't want it in the first place, but received so much pressure from addiction specialists, they gave in. Another thing the FDA did at that time was change buprenorphine from a Schedule V to a Schedule III controlled substance. The drug certainly didn't change, just the FDA's attitude.
My doctor knew I was in no danger taking Suboxone along with 1.5 mgs. of Xanax a day. He knew I wasn't an IV drug user, and that Suboxone contains naloxone, which precludes IV abuse. But he wasn't happy about it, knowing he was breaking the rules. This went on for about a year and a half, and I tested positive for Benzo's every time. I was about ready to end the Suboxone program, because I was down to 2 mgs. a day (I began with 16). Finally he said "choose one or the other, I just can't give you both anymore. It's against the rules and I could loose my DEA license." I ended Suboxone a little sooner than I planned, but it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, coming off of 2 mg./day.
Another comment about buprenorphine in France: there it's used in liquid form, put under the tongue with an eyedropper. It's absorbed much better that way, so patients there require lower dosages. I guess the FDA doesn't trust us to measure drop-by-drop, we're too stupid, and so we get tablets.
So, if anyone reading this is into IV drug use, and you have a whole lot of pure buprenorphine and a whole lot of Benzo's, don't shoot it all up together! You might die! Du... (That’s my sarcastic dig at the FDA, the SOB's!).
I took Suboxone and Xanax together every day for a year and a half. I don't believe I risked my life in the least at any time. I can't help but wonder if the FDA's true attitude about Benzo's is: "Well, okay, we'll let the junkies have their Suboxone, but we can't have them being too comfortable, can we? They deserve some anxiety for becoming addicted in the first place. They can't be trusted with any controlled substance; after all, they're addicts!" In other words, we're being punished.
You really did your homework! I must say, you are lucky that you could stop the Suboxone. I was down to one pill a day and the Dr told me I could quit. But I still got sick, and took half a day for a week, then only a quarter for a week. I tried to stop that last night but I had w/d--sweats, cold shivers, body shakes and spasms and, of course, I couldn't sleep. It's almost like when I was weaning myself off the hydrocodone. Everytime the Dr reduced the dosage in liquid form, two days later the w/d came. It's been a year and I have to get off the Suboxone so I can have more surgery. I wear a clonodine patch and take all sorts of vitamins and supplements but the w/d just won't quit. I'm going through hell only to begin again with the next surgery.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! you just relieved a lot of stress and anxiety i have been having over this, a good friend said her doctor made her sign a statement saying she would not and could not take ANY benzos at all whatsoever, and his explanation to her was because of it causing heart problems...so i have been a little freaked about this mainly because i have been having trouble with severe edema for about 4 months now, its almost gone now but totally unexplained, but edema can be related to heart problems so you can only imagine where my mind was taking me with this,... because i too did tons of research and never heard of this...so you just verified what i already THOUGHT i knew...but when you hear other conflicting advice from a doctor, it gets a little scary...i am on a low dose of benzos...1 mg per day of klonipin, and in the morning i even break my tablet in half so its only .25 mgs...and at night .5 mgs....so thank you so so so very much!!!!
I live in the u.k, & alot of doctor's give vallium, Nitrazipan, Ect while on subutex. You have to be clean form methadone & herion for 48 hour's before they will give you a script for the subby's, But we also get them in tablet form. Another thing i don't agree with in the u.s Addict's have to pay for there medication?? mad. I work & i still don't have to pay. So what choice;s have addict's got there?. You have to really want to be clean enyway we all no that,
But i no that if the u.k was like the u.s wher you can just go & get a script fo r strong pain med's form a few different place's this place would be over run with pill addict's.
They have brought out a bill in the comman's last year that say's enyone that isn't lalraedy on benzo's will not get them ( unless for menal health reson's ). & then you only get say 3 5mg of vallium a day. But those who have been on them a long time Have to start reducing, It dosn't matter how long it take's as long as effort is show, Which is far enugh i suppose. I did drop 2mg every 2 week's.
But just to be able to g.p hop is amazing, Mind blowing even
Peace nat. I like people that do there honework first lol. As there can be so much wrong info out there, But back to subject benzo's have no effct on your subby's ( as far as i no ). I haven't done my homework on that lol
Peace nat xxxx
i have had 2 friends die in the last year in their sleep.the only thing they had in common was subs and zanes.i unfortunately do the same thing and wouldn't be on this sight searching for an answer.but i think the cold hard truth is that we can't have our cake and eat it too.we are the ones who just dont want to beleive these things will kill us.but maybe this time they're right.I hope i didn't recommend 2 of my friends to die...
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