Suboxone advice!

[headies]

I have been off and on Suboxone for the year. I went cold turkey off the subs 8 months ago after only 15 days of Sub use, and I had 25 days of w/d.

Since then I have been okay I guess. But 6 months ago I recreationally started using subs again. I wasnt on any drug before I started the subs, I just liked the feeling the subs gave me at first.

Well the feeling is gone, and over 6 months of sub use, 2-4 mg a day, I have lost 35 lbs. I weigh 118 now. I also have no sex drive or ambition.

Its been about 4 full days since my last 2 mg dose, but I have been taking Dilaudid K4's just to get through the day. I have my first pyschiatrist meeting tommorow. I cant decide if I want to be honest, and tell him I am abusing subs and want to be weaned off by a doc, or just blow off the appointment and just find some hydros for the next week or two.

Sub w/d can be hell, and if I am going to go through hell, it might as well be three to five days of hell vs 25-35 days of sub w/d.

I dont drink anymore, or get high in anyway. I am not getting high off the opiates either. I just want off.

I sat at 2 mg of sub for 3 weeks, but my body just wont allow me to go any lower without me being a mess.

I think Suboxone was the worst thing I have ever taken. 6 months of sub use means 6 weeks of PAWS.

But what if I took opiates for three weeks without the sub. Would the receptors in my brain adjust to the opiates after 2-3 weeks, or will it just double the trouble.

I honestly think 3-5 days off opiate w/d sounds like a walk in the park compared to 35 days.

What do you guys think? Should I just let the doc wean me off subs slowly, or should I just use hydros for two weeks then tuff out the hydro w/d?

Anyone here been prescribed opiates during sub w/d? I have heard some docs do that!

[theeagle]

You should probably be brutally honest with the psych appointment and have a  real Pro help you out.  I doubt that you would get anything opiate for sub withdrawal. In the US a Doc may DISPENSE.......but not PRESCRIBE narcotics for three days for addiction. There are ways around this and there are Docs that will circumvent the letter of the law. But not many since they risk their license for it.

[headies]

Thanks for the advice. My friend, who provided the subs to me, is now being weaned off his subs with 10mg Oxys his doc prescribed. I have even seen the bottle he had, so this was why I was curious. Some people can shake off sub w/d better than others, but myself it is very hard for me.

Last time I went through this sub w/d, which was 8 months ago or so, I ended up punching wholes in the wall, shoved my girlfriend of 5 years onto the bed, but never hit her, just shoved more or less, and smashed a 1958 Gibson Les Paul into a million pieces. The guitar was then worth about $25,000. So I have these horrible memories of last sub w/d. As I should!

Fortunately for me, I want to quit. I want nothing more than to be normal.

So along with the 10mg Oxy's my friends doc prescibed, he also wrote him a script for 2 Xanex bars a day. This just sounds crazy to me.

Unfortunately I am worried if I am 100% honest with my new shrink tommorow, he wont give me anything, and I will be buying pills blackmarket style.

Why is it so freakin hard to go from 2 mg of sub to 1 mg of sub? I went from 8 down to 2 with zero w/d. But if I take any less than 2mgs a day of sub, I dont eat, work, or really do anything.

I honestly think no matter what I tell my doc I am in for a rough 30 days ahead.

Maybe I deserve it. I guess its gods way of using Karma to remind me I have been living the wrong way.

Guess it could be worse, I could be on methadone. But hopefully, I will have picked a compassionate doc who will wean me down to where I dont go crazy.

I cant afford another $25,000 guitar mishap.

[theeagle]

Its so hard to go from 2 to 1 because you are dropping 50% of your dose at one time. Even 8 to 2 is 25% - - -  Sub isnt a normal animal you know.  Its a beast.  And be very careful with a hydro addiction to quit the sub........possibilty that you would need a bunch of hydro to replace the sub. Sub is incredibly strong. Your buddy is playing with fire with the zanax bars. Probably better to have a sub/hydro habit than a benzo habit. Hope that he knows this and doesnt get too carried away.    Some advice that is on the web said to dissolve the sub in solution and use a measured eyedropper to administer even microgram doses. More detailed than that; but you should get the idea. And you may have to take the initiative yourself. Some of the Docs dont know enough about what they are trying to do......  

[headies]

I have heard of the eye dropper route. But honestly, I am wondering if anybody has ever switched from sub to opiates and had success. Will the receptors eventually adjust to the opiates, and then the sub just go away? Would I have to take hydros for 35 days while my receptors get use to no sub.

So far even if I take opiates, I cant feel any high or pleasure. It just makes me normal. I honestly have forgotten what an opiate high feels like. And thats a good thing!

I was thinking of telling my new doc my idea.

[headies]

Bout to leave for the shrink! I will tell you guys how it goes! I am going to be brutally honest!

[headies]

Well, I went to the doc, told him the truth. Told him I wanted off everything asap. He said okay lets start you on 24 mg's a day.

I lost it. I said, "Well I am fine with 2mg's now, so why would I take 24 mgs a day? I want offf, not on for years and years.

He then told me he had over 100 patients currently on Suboxone. I then asked him how many have succesfully weaned off with little w/d.

He said 4 people so far.

He offered xanex, but I turned it down!

I filled the script, and so far havent even taken anything for the day. Just knowing I have pills now, makes me less crazy now.

I plan on going from 2 mgs a day to 0 within 40 days.

[mom_of_two136]

24 is really high. I started a year ago on 16 and have reduced down and jumped yesterday from a crumb. I did a slow taper but friends of mine reduced 25% every four days and then started skipping days toward the end (2 - 1.5 - 1 - 0.5 - 0.25). I did the same but at a slower pace. I had minimal problems. I am not suggesting a dosage schedule for you (only your doctor can do that) but this is what worked for me. Alittle trouble sleeping but thats all so far. What ever you choose to do good luck!! You can do this. I think it is a great idea to stay at 2mg, IMO, 24 seems crazy if you know that 2 will hold you. Again, best wishes

[theeagle]

Well as long as you may use the sub and not have it use you; I would think that you are approaching things properly. Just be very careful that you can avoid making the sub a new DOC..... Crazy to want to start you on 24mg when much lesser was currently working for you. I understand where he is coming from - - but this isnt McDonalds - - and you are an individual and not a cookie cutter patient. You probably want to taper like you cant even imagine right now. Way down to 1/4mg and less. And then on every other day and etcetera......  I would have gotten the zanax just in case - - - -   Keep in touch here - - - I am praying that you get along just fine...............

[mtgoat911]

wow, i can relate to your post so much!! everything you said i have felt!
it sounds like you know how hard it is to detox off sub., after using it for 15 days it took you 25 days of wd before you felt somewhat better
so i vote no with the sub for detox purposes unless you are going into a facility
i am a big fan of using short acting opiates for detox, but i am still on the fence about the at home detox, i see both sides of that arguement
its hard for an addict to taper themselves off pills, some people can taper at home but others fail miserably
also the return to use after detox can be a problem when you dont have some kind of recovery program to turn to once all the narcotics are out
and i also wanted to mention that a suboxone doctor is always going to suggest more suboxone for a longer period of time, most of these doctors have given up on complete sobriety for opiate addicts, our statistics are not good, i am proud of you for turning down the increase in your dose, i have been on a daily use of 34mgs a day and let me tell you life sucked, those sub wd's sent my butt running back to the methadone clinic
its just one of those things i had to escape to find some sense of a normal life,
eagle love the mcdonalds reference, super high me doctor
hehaw

[headies]

I feel great today. 2 mg's was just right. I am going to go exersise, eat right. I am just glad I didnt except his giant dose.

The guy even had the nerve to say "Hey you know the 8 mgs pills are much cheaper, so maybe we should start you on two of those a day."

I litterally said "Why?"

I am fine on 2 mgs. I dont need any xanex, and I only I dont need any depression medicine.

He was just trying to pump me full of drugs I would get hooked on.

I asked him for some advice on how to quit smoking pot, and he said we had limited time and I should seek out another doc for that kinda stuff. He just handles the medication part.

He litterally handed me a script of Suboxone 20 minutes after I had introduced myself. He was running a little late from his previous patient, so I got the short session. I actually have a 10 minute appointment tommorow.

He really was your typical "Dont care about the patient type doc!" He spen more time going over prices and scheduled visits than he did with any info about sub.

This is why there are people strung out on Sub for 5 years. Becuase somebodies gotta pay for his Porshe, and his assistants new breats!

[christos24]

you should really go to that appointment, you are at such a low dose of suboxone if you follow a treatment plan that is suited to how you feel, your body, your mind, then you won't have to deal with any WD for a month and half or any discomfort at all...The reason why your WD the first time lasted so long was because you went cold turkey..Suboxone which is 8mgs buprenorphine and 2mg Naloxone( which is ineffective if taken properly) has a really long half life at 37 hours so even after 1 dose wds generally dont start until 3 days later, but if one was to go cold turkey from its use you will be asking for a long ride through hell with WD lasting at least a month a half. It is milder than methadone wds, but is very reminiscent and last around the same length of time and is relentless, that is why the last thing you can ever do while on treatment opioids such as suboxone or methadone is go cold turkey, and that is also why you need to get suboxone through a doctor so you have the security of having your daily dose their, you avoid dealing with buying from the street or through dealers/friends etc., the whole point of going on suboxone treatment is to give you an alternative opioid treatment med that erases any wds, almost completely gets rid cravings, and allows addicts to start their lives over by working again, getting back their families, going to meetings, learning about their disease, and stopping the vicious cycle of day in day out slaving over dope or pills.
Yeah io understand taht going through a week of pure hell wds from dilaudid beats a month and half wds from suboxone, but if you even remotely take them normally and allow yourself a taper plan when getting off you wont have to worry about wds at all, you wont even have any discomfort at all, if you ween off at your bodies own pace you avoid wds and other problems similar to that. So why go through wds at all? You have an appt. with a psychiatrist that can prescribe you a month's worth of suboxone and you can start going to meetings, see an addiction specialist, cuz suboxone is definitely not an opioid to abuse or take every once in a while to get messed up or have fun! woohoo! It's treatment medication along with methadone.
Its sad just in the past 3 months in my area two students one girl an upcoming freshman in college and a sophomore in college bought suboxone like they had before and took em to get messed up and have a good time and drank with them and theya re now both dead...Its so sad and terrible.
If youa re going to take suboxone get it prescribed taking a medication from the street or from a friend is not treatment nor does it allow you to truly avoid wd in the end. Keep that appointment and get on a stabilized dose of suboxone so you get on with your life, enjoy your life, just not having to worry about having to buy them from the street or through friends..man it kills me knowing that these treatment meds are being abused by a whole group of people, that right there will only cause more overdoses, tighter control on the medication, and then once the government will probably stop it and there goes another form of good treatment thousands upon thousands of fathers, mothers, daughters, sons, have been able to use properly to stop their addiction to opioids and get their lives back...I really do wish you the best of luck and hope you go to that appt. explain what your past with subs and opiates are and go from their, they will be able to help you get in control of your life and regain it w/o fear of WD and relapsing back to other opioids...Christos

[worried878]

like eagle said..sub is a potent puppy..or bull dog to be more descriptive..people often make the mistake of switching from a drug they coulda handled wd from to a drug they find virtually impossible to get off of...mainly due to fear of wd...fear can paralyze u and put u in a bunch of doo doo...at the time it seems like an easy way out..but then when the addict tries to let go of sub the yucky part starts...but looking back and wishing u had done anything differently serves no purpose..u r where u r....and getting off the sub is ur goal,,,,baby steps...sub tapers r long and slow..often to slivers and then even every other day doing a sliver for some..it depends on how much u can handle...but u can do this..cos i hear it in ur post that u want to do this...keep posting

[whitie]

what a nightmarish drug.


and what a total buffoon of a doc, to be just throwing that replacement narcotic out to people like its no big deal. the money grubbing sub system in its finest hour.


ofcourse, we all know what happens when you get addicted to a powerful narcotic opioid...........apparently that doc does not care to let his patients know that.


you need to get off the $#!^, take the time and do the work its going to take with out the sub. flush it out of your life.