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Suboxone for life?

Hello, I was taking four Vicodin es for seven years.  I have been on suboxone 2 mg for over four years. I have tried to taper off and I have gone cold turkey for three days but I felt terrible and went back to suboxone.
I work 70 hours a week and I have a family to support so going to a rehab is out of the question. I would love to get off this stuff and be free of it but I am afraid of going back to pills. How long can you stay on suboxone and what long term harm will it do?

Thank you for any advise.
Sparky
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Avatar universal
I started taking subs after being on lortab for 2 years for endometriosis. I took only as prescribed and never took more than one pill every 6-8 hrs. I had a hysterectomy and planned on stopping all together. But I had no one to help me figure it out. While my obgyn was a great dr, he didn't even mention that I'd need to taper off them. I'll try to sum this up as quickly as possible. I ended up panicking and going to a quack sub dr ,paid a fortune , then , when I wouldn't take all the other pills he wanted me to take and bc he had this idea that all people dependent on pain meds are liars and took at least twice the ammount they claim. Fast forward .. I went to another dr bc I was feeling so achy after a few months of not taking suboxone on and off. The dr said he didn't think I was having withdrawals but it was more than likely that I'd been masking the pain from Fibromyalgia while taking the lortab,(I had been diagnosed with fm several years prior). Anyway, the dr said if the sub helped that it was a safe way to treat the pain and I could take it forever if I needed to. So I've been taking one film a week for years now. I was taking a little more the first few years but I've been taking1- 8mg sub/week for the past few years. In this time I've had 4 drs. Two moved out of town and I switched from one bc it was literally in the ghetto. Two of the drs charged only a regular office visit but the others all take advantage and charge $500 first visit , then $250. And... you must see them every month bc of dea laws ect , so they say. So Ive been paying $300 a month for 4 subs. That is nuts! First off,  let me say that it's been my experience that most drs don't know a damn thing about suboxone. The dr I've been seeing most recently is convinced that I could stop cold turkey bc I take so little , it's in my head. NOT TRUE! Currently , I've been off of sub for 7 days and had gallbladder surgery 6 days ago. The surgery was hell bc they had a hard time in recovery getting my pain under control. I remember the nurse telling me that I must have a low pain tolerance. I had told the surgeon, the anesthesiologist and my GI dr that I took 1mg of sub a day and none of them were concerned about the meds working after surgery. Well, guess what? It's been hell! I had absolutely no pain relief for the first three days post op and the pain from laparoscopic surgery is so bad. I'm a thin person so I don't know if that makes it worse or not, but I do know that most ppl I know who have had theirs removed are obese and they act like the surgery was a breeze for them. It hasn't been for me tho. So.. bc I needed the relief from pain I decided to tough it out. I knew if I took the sub it wouldn't be strong enough to help at any point. But ,if I waited three days post op and then tried the narco (the surgeon gave me 30/ 7.5mg) that I might just be able to get off the suboxone and get pain relief from the surgery. I stopped sub on Sunday, had surgery on mon and by thurs I finally got some relief, however I've been really tired and swollen. One other thing I should note, my surgeon assured me that the surgery was super easy and that i would be gtg back to work on thurs after having surgery on Monday. I also told him I'm a hairstylist and my work is hands on with no breaks. He said I should be fine. So I went back to work on thurs doing twice the work of most normal days since I'd been off for two days for surgery. I worked thurs, fri and sat non stop. I'm exhausted but I made it through. I actually didn't feel pain on thurs , then on Friday I could tell that after about 6-8 the norco work off and I had symptoms of withdrawals. I've been trying to take as little as possible since I have no idea how long this will last and I only got 30 pills from the surgeon. Also, I was urged to take 15mg after surgery bc I was hurting so bad, needless to say .. I wasted at least 8 of the pills bc they had no affect. The past two nights I've basically spent in my bathtub soaking In hot water( against drs orders bc of incisions)  bc that is the only relief I get from the aching and restless legs and arms feelings I get at night. I feel like I'm slowly seeing the light at the end of the tunnel tho because I've noticed things that I haven't felt in years. Like how good the shower felt on my aching shoulders, the wind on my arm when I roll down the car window. . Feelings!!! This medicine has dulled my senses and taken my feelings from me and I wasn't even aware. I swear that my eyes are brighter when I catch a glimpse in the mirro, even tho I still have hours of feeling awful when I don't take the norco as soon as one wears off. I was wondering if anyone had had a similar situation or used hydro to get off sub? If so, how long did the sub withdrawals last? We're there any problems getting off the hydro? I can't say that I actually feel the hydro, but I can tell that the pain from surgery and withdrawals subside after I take a pill so this makes me think that the two meds are different enough that this plan of mine might work. I could save myself even more pain, I think, and take the hydro more often but like I said, I'm afraid I'd run out of pills before I'm done with the withdrawals since I have no idea how long it'll be before they stop. I think that suboxone should only be used if you're taking high doses of opiates and it's the only option. It should never be long term. I hate this medicine and the way it's made me feel , the money it's cost me and the anxiety I've feel every day for years because of it. I've made it a week without taking a sub and there's no way I would turn back now!
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Avatar universal
Sill information!
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Avatar universal
Wow you are giving out WRONG info!  I have been on Sub for 5 3-4 years now and I love it as it helps me stabilize my life and motivate to do things.  I am sure during your 26 days especially the first two weeks, you didn't want to do anything but be alone, stay in bed and didn't eat well, etc.  That is NOT healthy!  You need to cut down slowly and always feel comfy.  For me, I personally think it is better that I take sub for the rest of my lives because I feel great so I don't relapse or feel ****** getting off of it.  Zombie effect after being on long term is a JOKE and no such a thing.  I am sure many people agree at least majority of them.
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Avatar universal
You have that right. I was on Methadone for over 7 years and after detoxing for 10 months, I finall broke down emotionally and physically. I started taking 8 mg of suboxone after dr giving me info that being on sub would allow my Mu receptors to heal and then detox off of sub. I've tried twice and it is worse than methadone. Emotionally flat, anhedonic, indifferent are relevant descriptive words. You guys on lortabs, percs, even hydro/oxymorphones should stay away from these (sub-meth). They marry for life!
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Avatar universal
On the question at hand, I wouldn't suggest anyone taking Subs full time, as weaver said they block to much of our natural and take to much away from us, I noticed a BIG change in friends over the years who continued with them, not in a nice way either. In my opinion Subs should only be prescribed as a tool to break a relentless cycle of misery and nothing else. I went on them to break away from Heroin and criminality, they saved my life in more ways than one, but if I had the chance to do it again, I would have detoxed from H. I'm still on the fence as to how good a drug it is, only time will answer that one for me. I do feel great now, still have anxiety in the am and sleep patterns are still off but i can live with that. If I were you I would drop slowly and get as low as possible before jumping making it as easy as possible on yourself, I jumped from 4mgs which is way high and I suffered because of it, get as low as you can my friend! I wish you all the best in the future, grab your life back.
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Avatar universal
I'm so happy to hear your getting some sleep Killer, it's a wild ride my friend. It sounds like you turned that corner, it's so much easier isnt it. Once you realise fighting it doesn't help and you start to just roll with it, let it play out so to speak everything falls into place and time becomes a word you don't fear, (as much), lol. Well done my friend, truly, ;)
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Avatar universal
I never answered the question about life long use of subs. I have noticed that most begin to describe a zombie effect, or flat affect is the technical term. 4mgs of sub block up to 80% of the emotional transmitters in the brain. In Latin America, subutex is the fastest growing street drug, Scandanavia too. In Mexico they call the abusers bupe zombies. I am not saying that 2mg a day will cause those effects, but it is possible. A detachment takes place that makes people not want to live that way any longer, even while taking it. There have never been clinical studies longer than a year, and only a few longer than a 1-3months. The public is the guinea pigs that are slowly finding the actual answer to that question. Hope that helps.
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6541568 tn?1382412751
Hey Sparky,

I am a 6+ year suboxone user and am currently at 26 days clean from it.  I was at 2 mg/day when I jumped.  It is definitely a long hard detox which I'm not done with.  If you have no sick time or vacation time saved up, tapering down even further is what I would advise.  Initially going down to 0.5 mg/day was my plan, but life and circumstances intervened and for me I had to go ct at the 2 mg/day mark.
Suboxone is not meant to be a long term fix, but a crutch to help folks get off high dosage opiate usage.  Unfortunately it seems to me doctors tend to put addicts on it and since we don't need to escalate while on it and it does act as a pain killer they leave us on it for way too long.  The sooner you get off the easier it will be.  
Unfortunately it won't be that easy.  We all have had to pay a price for our usage.  Your doctor can and probably will be able to help you with the wds and hopefully you can try to minimize the symptoms.  I don't want to lie though, some discomfort will be had, mainly for me is the insomnia and rls.  At day 26 I'm still only sleeping maybe 2-3 hours a night, but I think it is getting better and I don't have anything prescribed to me from a doctor to help.  I'm just taking my vitamins and drinking water and I am thankful everyday when I'm clean 1 more day.  
You must decide and then act.  When you are ready go for it and know it is ultimately the best thing you can do for yourself.  Try not to put expectations on yourself as to when things should be over, better, or what not.  Roll with the punches and know that in this case, time does heal the wounds.  Your brain has to reset as well as your body and subs hold on so hard it takes a while.
I wish you all the best and encourage you to continue to keep coming here, posting, answering questions you can and just participating.  Knowing you truly are not alone can carry you through when you really are going minute to minute.  Trust me....I've been there....recently.

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Avatar universal
With the sub half life, your last dose is gone in 21 days. I find it best to drop after that amount of time. Many doctors suggest getting down to .5mgs before you quit. I assume you are using the 2mg film, if not, I would ask for them at your next visit. They are easy to cut and take a small amount off each drop. Loooonggggg and sssllllooooowwww, it best. Ask your doctor if this would be an appropriate method for you.
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Avatar universal
I agree with clean_in_ks.  Subs are strong and go down slow.  They are a powerful opiate!  I wish I would have known that a couple years ago when a doc put me on them to get off of norco and trams.  Talk to your doc and work out a taper plan.
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3197167 tn?1348968606
Have you talked to your sub dr. about weaning down slower....and lower than 2 mg?
2 mg of subs is equivalent to about 60 mg of hydrocodone....here's a conversion chart that may help:

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/18499/Conversion-table-other-drugs-equivalent-to-sub

Since subs are synthetic and linger in the fat cells and tissue.....it is harder to get out of your system than hydros.  Getting involved in some aftercare for addiction recovery and weaning down lower than 2 mg may help.    
Helpful - 0
4626633 tn?1382597122
Hi and welcome. I'm going to bump this up. I have no experience with subs, but several here do, and have come off.

Others will be along shortly! :)
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