Suboxone how hard is it to come off of .

I have seen any in the last week considering suboxone .We have many that are still taking it .I think it would really helpful for  many posters trying to research whether it a good chioce for them to hear what people that are now off it have to say .
Did you take it short term or long term? How long if at all did you have WD going off it?.If you had to do it all over would you make the same choice?

[liscamdave]

I used it twice. Once I took it for about little over a month and did not taper, and the w.d was 10x's worse then when I went c.t from about 15 80mg oxys a day. Then I tried it again and did another short term treatment, but this time tapered down to about shavings every other day, and the w.d was not too bad. I do not think it should be continued as long term. I don't personally consider someone as physically clean while on sub. And I am NOT saying this in a mean way..I merely mean that physically, your body is dependant on the sub, as well as the previous opiate you were on. The difference is with Sub you aren't acting like an addict and aren't in active addiction where you spike doses, steal, lie, fake pain, dr shop...pretty much all of the above.

I think it is helpful for short term purposes. I mean, I understand the need to use it long term, because people don't want to relapse into their old Drug. But you don't relapse because you are already getting an opiate? I mean, most dont get that. When the sub is stopped, and you don't relapse back to your old Drug or the Sub, then you are clean. Aftercare is a huge part of recovery. Probably the hardest part.

Anyway..Yes. I would use it again. But NOT high amounts and NOT longer then a few weeks...my opinion only...

Lisa

[ochooked]

Thanks Avis for posting the question.  Sometimes I fear that I may sound like a broken record with my cautions about taking Sub.  I  started on Sub and only stayed on it for 21 days. I took my last crumb of Sub 42 days ago and I think I am finally clear of most of the symptoms of W/D.  It was pure he11 for the first 2 weeks or so - then got progressively better.  I was still having periodic W/D's (tremors/hot/cold/runs, etc) up until two days ago, but now the only problem I have is tiredness.  I think I have finally gotten through the rough part.  It would have been so much better to continue my taper on Hydros or Percocets and then jumped.  Knowledge is power but at the time I got on Sub, I really didn't know any of this horror story.  Of course when I was in such agony I began to read posts from others who had the same problem.   I know that most people do not look past the first page on the site so every few days there are totally new posts ----- so, I have tried to share my experience with the board so that others may know what I went through.  It will be interesting to see how many others respond to this thread.  All the best.

[avisg]

OC I am glad you are telling you experience I know there are alot of different opinions and this subject can get heated but I really think that people that are considering going on it need to be aware of the good the bad and the ugly .That way they are making the most informed decisions they can for what is right from them .As long as the thread remains calm it should be very helpful for members .

[refusingbondage]

Yes, thanks Avis.  ochooked, I feel the exact same way, but you know what, I don't care.. If I can prevent one preson from going through it, then Ill say it over and over.  After a 9 year addiction to anything painkiller, I ended up on suboxone.  Was taking anywhere from 20-30 10mg percocet or 7.5mg vicoprofen a day and I needed to quit.  I started to research detox facilities because I knew the wd would be bad, had done it many times before and didn't want to go through it alone again.  I came across the gov site for suboxone.  I was very thrilled to know I could avoid withdrawal and thought it to be a miracle and an answer to my prayers.  Saw doctor, told me sub is a relatively new drug which is wonderful and helps addicts avoid withdrawal.  Perfect.  I started 16mg a day.  I tapered down every few months.  I was supposed to taper 2 mg/month but I got stuck a few times.. some months tapering even 2mg gave me wd so I talked to the doc who said up the 2mg and try again next month.. eventually almost 2 years later I jumped off at 1mg.  At my last dr. visit he promised me little to NO wd at all.  I am on day 34 off subs and I am still having wd.  The first, I'd say 18 days, were an absolute living nightmare.  NOTHING at all like any detox I'd ever been through.  All the normal wd stuff - shakes, shivers, fever, goosebumps, aches, pains, stomache issues, RLS, insomnia, headache - but magnified by 100.  My legs went numb.  I fell a few times because my legs were numb.  All very unique to this experience alone.  I slumped into a very deep depression and had such a heavy sadness on me, like Ive never experienced not even when my father died. Crying.  Literally suicidal. Then panic attacks.  Never had one in my life till sub detox.  Couldnt breath, catch my breath.. all of a sudden my chest would feel like it was caving in.  All unique to this detox experience alone.  I too wish I would have just sucked it up 2 yrs ago and went c/t off the painkillers.  At day 34 I am a lot better.  I am still freezing all the time, I still have goosebumps a lot, I am very tired and I sneeze a lot, but it's getting better.  I have heard it referred to as the "suboxone spanking"  well to me, its the "suboxone sucker punch".. its a roller coaster - one day, not so bad.. the next.. pretty bad.  I too try to share as much as possible without discouraging anyone from wanting to quit.  There is use for sub, but its not a miracle.  It will not keep you from having withdrawal and there is a GREAT risk that you will suffer more from it.        

[avisg]

thank you for telling your story

[JENZ_N_RECOVERY]

hey i started taken sub due to the fact that i was doing oxyz intaveinously..and about 5 80mg and 5 30mg ones a day..shootin them mite i add and i took sub for a month and we had a bad hurricane here and when i ran out the dr.s r the pharms here had no elect. so i had to get off and i never had the 1st w/d symptom...i never felt any different....sub is the only reason im clean to this day! it saved my life! and i thank god that i got on the sub treament....but when i got down to my last 10 subs i started to take a 1/2 then a 1/4 then just a crumb..and then none  i was off no w/d and have never felt better in my whole life! it was my saving grace!!! so thats my story ms avisg! love ya gurl! and you and my mom make the BEST CLS!!! yall rock on gurl!!

[worried878]

good post....Hopefully good info will be shared and people can ask questions and not be afraid to ask or anyone be afraid to express their opinion....

[refusingbondage]

I am always amazed when I hear good sub stories-and JEALOUS!  It is so strange to me that people can have such a vast difference in their experience with it.  I am happy to read your post - it truly makes me feel like others who are on it and wanting to come off can indeed have a good experience with it and not have to go through what I did.  Great positive story.  Thank you putting it out there.  There are many people here who are about to drop off the sub and are nervous.  I know your post is giving them hope.  By reading these posts, they can hope for the best and be prepared for the worst. Take care.

[avisg]

Jenz,
Thanks girl ,I a glad it work so well for you .I know most of the people taper all of the way down to a crumb seem to have a much more smooth time getting off .I have also heard much better experiences with shorter term usage.

I wish OChooked had be as lucky he did short term and had a very bad time of it . It goes to show who everybody's body reacts differently .

Its great to see both positive and negative this is what I wanted  to have here.

[liscamdave]

I think alot of the reason that people tend to stay on sub long term, is because they actually feel good on the sub, not high but "normal" or what they remember feeling normal is. For me, I felt unstoppable on the sub. I was alert, had energy and had NO desire to go back to Oxy's. I was unaware at the time that I was infact still ingesting partial opaites, just not acting as an addict would. Being that you are no longer paying for drugs off the street, forging scripts, dr.shopping, snorting, shooting up, spiking...counting pills..lying, stealing..pretty much everything we do as addicts. We feel as though because we aren't doing these things we are clean and in recovery. And while I do agree you are in recovery, because you are working towards getting off your DOC and getting clean. I don't really think you are home free yet. To me, you know you are clean, when you can wake up for one full week, get though every day, without taking your DOC and/or the sub.

I have heard of many stories, both good and bad, of people who tapered down to as little as they could and had no w.d other then headaches. And then some who also tapered down to little and had massive w.d. I don't personally believe you can just by-pass w.d. I think that we all want to find a way to do that and its just not possible. But reading Jenz story, I guess it has to be. I believe that the mind sometimes makes your w.d a little harder. Becuase I can remember being in full blown w.d from Oxy's if my dealer was out, and when he would call and say he got them in, I would instantly feel better knowing I was going to get them soon? I mean, I would go from NOT being able to get out from underneath the covers cause I had chills so bad, to getting that call that he had them and being able to get up, get dressed, drive to the bank and go get the pills. So I think some of it, not alot, but some is in your head.

No matter how you slice it, addiction and w.d is just plain horrible. And I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. But I think most are not seeing that the w.d is not the hardest part, its staying clean. I have had my share of relapses and this is the longest I have been clean to date. So I hope I can continue on. There are good days, and bad days. And this forum helps me stay grounded. Aftercare people....its the best way to stay clean.

But this is a good topic and like you said Avis, if we keep it calm and rational, it will be very informative for some people. I think we all get so caught up in our own opinions and what WE think is right, we lose sight of what's important and that's to educate anyone who may not know anything on Sub.

Anyway..my story is above and if anyone has any questions about my story, please feel free to ask.

[avisg]

btt

[xru11]

Day (7) of Sub Withdrawal

I posted this elsewhere but I wanna make sure that anyone thinking about subs as the way out know what I am going through.  So if you seen this elsewhere sorry, just ignore it.  If not, and you are thinking about Subs talk to your Doctor, do it right and get off them a soon as possible once you start.

I want to proffer my personal experience to others.  This is just me.....others might have had a different experience, but in researching this Suboxone/Subutex thing on this site  I find similarities between my experience and others.....

AS ALWAYS SEEK A QUALIFIED AND CARING DOCTOR'S CARE NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!!!!!

I was on and off hydrocodone for about 3 years never more than 2-3 10s a day.  In january 07 I tapered and went cold turkey. It lasted about 3 months clean when I got hit with a tremendous amount of stress in my life and found myself working late nights.  To keep focused and energized I got back on Hydros.  Then in Oct/ Nov. of 2007  I did some research and found out about subutex.  I seemed to be a miracle drug!!!!! NO WITHDRAWALS!!!!!  NOT TRUE!!!!! Well I didn't know that then.   I got on Subutex and it seemed like a miracle drug!!!  It worked just as promised!  I had an easy time getting off hydros with little or no withdrawal effect.  Unfortunately I developed a Subutex habit instead!  Almost a year later (September 25, 2008)  I decided to quit.  I started to taper.  I got down to a little less than .5 a day for a week from about 1mg the week before.  On October 2, 2008, I jumped off.

The first 4 days were horrible.  I mean REALLY horrible.  In desperation I found this place, set up an account and started posting.  Many of you folks  gave me some hope and some tips.  But the more I learned about this Sub thing the more I realized I was in for long and rough ride.  This Subutex has quite a grip on you (37-hour half-life).

On my Day (6).  I rode a bike 7.5 miles this morning at 8:30 am.  I have been doing everything I can think of to make this easier nothing really really works completely.  I STILL FEEL KINDA BAD ALL OVER AND NOW I HAVE AN EVER-PRESENT HEADACHE.  Lots of things work a little,... like:

Exercise
Lots of water
Vitamins
Veggies Fruits
Aminos
Hot baths with scented oils
rest
sex (ENDORPHINS)
IBUFROFEN
dark chocolate
motivating music
crying

But really, this IS BAD. Getting off  Hydros was rough but for me after 5 or 6 days I was over the worst of it.  Come to think of it it took me 11 days before I was totally okay after hydros!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Wait a minute!  There's hope, may on day 11 I will be okay this time too!  I hope so....


Problem is,...search this site for subutex withdrawal and you will find that the consensus is that subutex really bites back hard.  Its a good way to get off hydros and perhaps other drugs IF AND ONLY IF YOU STICK TO THE THREE WEEK PROGRAM THEN TAPER AND JUMP OFF!!!!! DON'T GET HOOKED ON SUBS!!!!!  As always seek out a good Doctor and take his or her advice. Unfortunately, I didn't realize at the time that the Doctor I went to in Vegas was pretty much just a pill-pusher.....or maybe he just doesn't know how rough Subs can be.... but him and his over-tanned and leathery receptionist just kept telling me to tak your time no rush, let your body heal take as many as you need,....etc.  I am very angry at this so-called practice.  But look,  I'm no Doctor... But I really care about others walking down this road.  When I had nowhere to go you people gave me solace and courage and some comfort.  I feel obliged to share back for others!

On a good note, today is my Day (7) off Subs and I feel pretty good.  I've got a tinge of stomache pain but not bad, a lurking headache not quite discernible given 800 mgs of Ibuprofin I took an hour ago and of course cutis anserina (goose bumps).  I'm gonna ride a bike today.  I'm shooting for 10 miles mostly flat surface and Im gonna try to be productive today.

Good Luck to those of you contemplating the seduction of Subs.  Its a powerful thing bu respect it.  The horror stories are far less pronounce if you minimize the term of usage.  But even after only three weeks I have heard of some bad Wds.

[liscamdave]

That was really informative and I pray that people read this. You sound like you are determined and have come a long way. Congrats on getting clean and fighting the demons....awesome...

And also, welcome to the forum...its a great place for suppor, advice and knowledge....

Lisa

[avisg]

Just the fact that they put you on sub for 2 or 3 hydro's a day is scary .I wish they had a better set of guidelines  for use .Thank you for sharing this can help any thinking about using sub .

[flmagi]

I'm still on the Suboxone. It's been 8 months now and I flip between 4 -6 mgs per day. And like Liscamdave said..I feel normal, not high.  I don't get the high energy from it, maybe a little in the first few months.  I should be trying to taper from it, but I have not given any real attempts at it. I think I fear the depression I'll probably experience more than the withdrawal symptoms. I'm also on Cymbalta for depression, which I have been tapering off of.  I'm going to switch to Zoloft soon.
Anyway... Would I do the Sub again?   Yes, I think I would, of course I haven't gone thru the withdrawals yet.  And if I could do it over, I would have at least gotten down to a much lower dose in the first month or so. I have a lot more tapering to do than Mary, who did get way down on her dose early on.
Would I recommend it?  I have 2 versions of criteria for recommendation.
1.  If you have tried over and over again to get clean, really tried, only to relapse again and again, and your addict behavior is putting your life or your families welfare in serious jeopardy, legally, physically, and financially. You truly believe you have run out of options.
2. Circumstances beyond your control do not allow you the luxury of the down time needed to go thru the worst part of withdrawals and would only need to use it for a week or two. And would not have any major problems dealing with the left over withdrawals after that.
I have certainly come to terms with the fact I'm going to be in for a pretty ruff time when I decide it's time to come off the Sub. I've accepted that.
My biggest regret, (other than getting addicted in the first place) is the last time I got clean. I was clean for 3 months and feeling great except for depression. I tried to wait it out, hoping it would go away. My depression got extremely severe and caused me to relapse. Had I gotten on some anti-depressant before I let it get so bad, I honestly think I would not have relapsed and I wouldn't be on Sub now.
I'm not happy that I'm on Sub...still on it. But this is where I'm at.
I get very concerned when I hear people asking about the depression after the withdrawals. My advise is to get to the doctor and get on an anti-depressant. Even if it's just for a short while. Much better than relapsing or ending up on Sub. Every effort must be exhausted before going the Sub route.

[liscamdave]

Great Post......well said and EXACTLY to the point....

Hope you are well honey..

Lisa

[botchedup]

I've always been a bit leary about antidepressants as a whole.  However, I think you've got it right about post w/d depression.  There seems to be much confusion out there regarding depression whether personality types are more suceptible etc.   There's not enough info out there about straight up "chemical depression".  When your body is depleted for chemical reasons rather than emotional.  I've had two experiences with celexa--one horrible one good.  The first was celexa and tramadol--prescribed by a doctor that resulted in a very scary experience/hospitalization.  The other is when w/d ing from Subutex.  My doctor explained to me the chemistry of w/d, serotonin depletion, and how to use celexa as a TOOL to boost levels in order to achieve regeneration and balance.  I took the celexa---with nothing else but .05 clonidine at 8pm.  20mg celexa in the AM, with the UNDERSTANDING that I would give it 2 wks to see how i felt, and 4 months total of use.  Right at the two week mark, maybe even a few days before, I felt the lifting.  After 3 months I had energy, felt clear headed,and began the last month taper.  Had no w/d's and have been "emotionally balanced" ever since.  that was 2005.  the only time I ever felt like the malaise was returning was when I had to take those damn percocet for a fairly painful procedure.  But even then, I never felt the urge to overtake, or "get some energy".  In fact, In the absence of physical pain, the familiar peak and valley was easily felt but this time didn't "trigger" me.  I know some are sensitive to "supportive meds" but I find that to be more of an emotional judgement rather than good science.  Same w/subs, have a plan, a time frame, and support and it will be a softer landing.  

[liscamdave]

Good point...they should NOT have put him on sub for that little an amount.

[botchedup]

It's not the mgs only, that matter to a doc&patient choosing sub.  It's also the reactions physically, emotionally, and behaviorally that the patient has to his or her meds.  I have used sub for breaks between surgeries at what seem to be considered fairly low doses.  i was still dependent and addicted, and no way near able to take a month or two or three to detox and w/d.  Everybody's different yes, and no one solution will fit all.  I guess my point is, Please don't go chewing up 30 more mgs a day because you feel like your "addiction isn't big enough to use Sub."   Eventually it will be.  We have to take into account everything...not just how many mgs.

[Lynn79]

   My story is very strange, and I'll keep it as short as I can (although my post exceeded the character limit, so it will be a two-parter). I was a pothead. I didn't even like pills. In college, I had experimented with everything here and there, such as a few months on Ecstasy, a few months of trying cocaine, shrooms and acid here and there, marijuana, and a Perc here and there, given to me by the dishwasher at Applebee's to help us work faster. It felt good but it wasn't my thing.  I was a daily weed smoker for about 4 years. I smoked every day through college, and the year after  I didn't know at the time, but this was self-medicating a whole lot of issues, because as things happened in my life I was already feeling good so I didn't need to deal with them.
   Then my parents decided to sell the family home I grew up in, I was accepted as an instructor at a prestigious tennis camp in Maine, and I had an application in to the Master's program at Florida State. A lot of life changes were on the horizon, but I was excited about them. About three weeks before I was set to leave for Maine, I decided to stop smoking pot so I could get in shape (I know... three weeks was NOT enough time, but I was cocky then). THE VERY NEXT DAY, my life changed and has not been right since. I woke up with this horrible feeling that I couldn't explain to anyone. I felt wierd all over my body and I felt like I had to concentrate on my breathing. Have you ever had that? Where you're focused on your breathing? Because then you know that once you start you can't stop. Then the panic attacks came and I took myself to the ER. They ran all kinds of tests, including an EKG, but everything was normal. At one point, I was PRAYING it was hyperthyroidism, because something like that is treatable. I had never been an anxious person, so I didn't chalk it up to anything mental at all. In fact, I had ran out of marijuana many times in the past, and had gone without it for weeks at a time before, and I felt fine.
   Friends were making fun of me because "marijuana isn't addictive." Bullsh*t. It had a psychological hold on me, and now that I had it in my head that I didn't want to do it anymore, my body was reacting negatively. Of course, I didn't know any of this at the time, this is all hindsight. So I spent 4 months in complete agony. I couldn't go out with friends, because I was afraid of having a panic attack or some other breathing problem. I couldn't sleep. I was focused on every single body feeling that I had. I would lay in bed, propped up because it was found that I had Acid Reflux and I was hoping that this was what was wrong with me. I would finally drift off to sleep, then wake myself up with a panic attack. I woke up every morning by 7am, and all I could do was go on the computer to the Anxiety Forum that I found back then.
   I was in hell, and I couldn't understand why this was happening to me. The worst part was that it was impossible to explain to anyone, and when I tried people just said, "oh you're probably just tired, or stressed." Needless to say, I cancelled tennis camp because there was no way I could have functioned there. I was unemployed so I had my days free to just pine over how I was feeling. Some days I thought that if someone had told me I would feel that way forever, I would surely kill myself. At least I had hope.
   So I started taking Xanax here and there, but all that did was make me tired, and I tried Lexapro but that didn't help either. I dealt with it for 3 years. I didn't have any kind of normal life.
   Then I had dental surgery, and was prescribed Vicodin. This was the first time since being "afflicted" with this horrible ailment that I would be taking a painkiller. It IMMEDIATELY made me feel normal. I felt like I had years ago, before even smoking weed. The fact that Vicodin made my mind and body feel normal again, proved to me that my affliction was drug related. If there were any other cause, then taking a drug like that wouldn't help, right? So now that I had found what I thought was the perfect medication for my illness, I took one every day. Soon I got used to feeling back to normal. At one time, I was actually angry that I had tried Xanax and Lexapro, because here was this miracle drug. And that's how my addiction began.
   After a year, I was up to 3 10mg pills every morning, and 3 at night before bed. I had stolen a stack of scripts from my dentist's office, and perfected her signature, so the flow of pills was not a problem. Then my girlfriend of 4 years found them, and I was done. She threatened to call the dentist, and the pharmacy, if I didn't quit. She also made me flush everything I had, which I did. She didn't know that I had some scripts left in the trunk of my car, but I went three days without the pills. I was a waitress then and working during withdrawal was pure h*ll. My girlfriend took the pills away on Friday. Monday morning I was at Walgreens filling a new script.

[Lynn79]

   Thus began another run with the pills, and I was keeping the bottle under my mattress in our bedroom. I was sleeping there by myself because things weren't good at that time, due to my lying and the pills and a lot of things, so she was sleeping in the guest room. I would say I was on the pills for another 4 months. I walked into my bedroom after a shower one day, and my empty pill bottles were laid out on top of my bed. My heart completely sank. I couldn't go out there and face her the whole day, I just stayed in my room thinking of what to say. When I went out there, I tried to explain how withdrawal feels, and that I need to taper and not quit cold turkey, and that I needed some kind of help. She screamed a lot about my being a liar, and I just kept explaining that I couldn't do it cold turkey. I'll skip a lot of drama here, but this time the pills were taken away the day before starting my new job!!! The first day was easy because it was orientation, and I was pretty much plopped at a desk and left there to explore on my own. The next two days, however, I was supposed to be in training. The first day, I played sick and left early.
   It was here that I found out about Suboxone, and read up on it, and then begged my girlfriend to lend me the money to get started. She played a good game, saying why should I help you, you did this to yourself. She finally caved, because I was getting a paycheck in two days anyway, and she took me to the doctor. Incidentally, I was on day 3 of withdrawal, so there was no question about not waiting long enough. The doctor gave me the script, and $310 later I had my Suboxone. I took a 4 mg pill right there in the car, and we drove home. My girlfriend and I layed on the couches in our living room, and I can still remember what it felt like. I was in full withdrawal, shaking and moving all around because I couldn't get comfortable, and that aweful tunnel breathing feeling I get. After 15 minutes, I felt able to lay down and relax, which I did, and then I didn't even notice when it took its full effect. I was just all of a sudden feeling better. I could not believe how much better I felt. Here I was again, finding that miracle drug for my ailment. But no one told me that it wasn't a medication for addiction, but a partial opiate, designed to keep the receptors full.
   I will have been on Suboxone for one year on October 29th, and I feel like I have my life back. But I feel like it is a false life. And lately reality has been sinking in that this can't last forever. I want to have children soon, and be pregnant, and I can't be on this medication. It is also becoming quite a burdon, having to wait for ten minutes every morning while the d*mn thing dissolves, and then trying not to gag when brushing my teeth right after. It's becoming redundant, and I am starting to resent it. It would be great if it came in simple pill form, but the process has just taken its toll on me over the past year. The thought of getting off of it doesn't scare me simply because the withdrawals are bad, or because I'll need aftercare. Believe me, if someone told me that they knew for certain that when I go through detox and withdrawal that I will start to feel better... And I don't need to feel "better" like normal people feel, just the way other addicts describe feeling when their withdrawal symptoms go away, then I would gladly embrace the process today. But I feel that when I let go of the opiates, I will have the same issue that I had 4 years ago to go back to, because did that ever really go away? I think I've just been masking it. And that really was the most horrible feeling, and the most horrible time in my life. I CANNOT go back to it, or I will simply not make it. I have the dream job I have always wanted, as a case worker with the State, and I am successful. I don't have the time and energy to go back to a bout of anxiety and depression, and breathing problems like I had before.
   Part of me has faith that perhaps this time will be different, if my mindset is different, and if I go to substance abuse counseling. But the other part of me is skeptical, thinking "what can they really do to fix this way that I feel?" I just don't see how it's possible to heal someone's mind when it is this badly damaged. I hate the fact that I ever thought drugs were okay, and I hate my father for being a drug addict and passing the gene down to me, and I hate myself for starting in the first place. So now I am just maintaining myself, and buying time, to figure out what to do. I believe that Suboxone could have saved my life, if I used it as a short term detox method instead of a year-long crutch.

[lovepat906]

I have posted before here re my son's successful detox off Methadone using Sub. It was a slow and low taper over a three month period and he had some mild WDs-  never missed work. 3 months later he is still completely well.
I think there are lots of experiences out there. I wish that everyone journaled their journey and particulars so we could compare and see if there are any similarities among good experiences vs bad. Sometimes I think we might be comparing apples to oranges.  If you are interested in reading MANY good experiences, I recommend Naabt.org. Lots of sub users migrate to that site because of their positive support for sub users.

[avisg]

Pat I am curious are the stories over there all positive or do they have a mix of both ?

[worried878]

just seems...and again...just seems...when someone is sick and tired and ready to be done...they will do it....if sub is in the picture then they will still do it....a methadone addiction...a heroin addiction...an extremely high oxy or hydro addiction.....sub may help..but only if the person is DONE with the whole thing...I do not think sub will sabotage someone who is simply over this whole mess....unless they think it is a safe narcotic..it is not...a person who knows what they r doing can use this effectively but most do not know how to do this and the doctors as of now do not either....Sticky drug...scary drug...and if u dont know what u r doing and u r not dead serious...stay away from it..that is just my opinion which doesnt mean a hill of beans

[botchedup]

Well y'all, looks like our FDA is strongly considering the drug lofexedrine--non narc, non addictive, adregenic alpha 2 agonist....Eases w/d symptoms,,,not all but lots.  Now this one raised my eyebrow because it is NOT an opioid in any sense of the word, action, or mechanism.  Not as far as I can find researching, and I only started REALLY looking into it hoping for all of us.  PM me Anybody if you have or find any info....besides that from the meds website itself...I'm looking for med-journal-articles,R papers, etc.  Can you imagine????Won't we all be pissed when it does pass and Europe has had it for 10 or so years now.:)    Simma-down!:)lol

[worried878]

the drug u speak of is very similar to clonodine without the severe bp effects...will not replace sub anytime soon...money is in the air...where money is to be made...a racquet will grow....steering folks from methadone clinics to spend tons on sub...the new detox drug that will soon become the old detox drug with the same label as methadone...then people in chronic pain will be able to take their methadone with no label anymore...could be a good thing...sub will become the detox label....methadone is an effective drug for pain/and still is/ the usa decided to label it as a detox drug...if someone sees u r on sub...u r lableed as an abuser...ur pharmacy intake is on the computer for all to see...for the rest of ur life..u go to a new pain mgt doc and he decides to pull up ur history and he sees sub ur screwed/labeled...something to think about/as any doctor can do this anytime he wants to do it....methadone is legal/approved for pain as well so it does not label u like sub does/sub is not approved for pain in the us.....just an fyi for those who want sub for a week or 2...if u fill it it is on ur records forever

[mr.lucky66]

Sub and methadone when used long term as reffered to as "harm redution therapies" by professionals. Neither one really help you get over addiction , they just put in on hold but allow you to stop drug seeking. I prefer methadone for this purpose as it more tried and tested but they are similar. I think there is a big profit motive for the doc who perscribe and learn about it at a weekend seminar and really don't seem to know how addictive sub is. I think it is a good detox drug when used for very short periods. It seems like the opinion here if more against it for long term here judging from people's experiences.

[marcatj]

you won't know until you try..

counseling changed my life - completely. and many, many others i know... psychotherapy is life changing with the right therapist.  my addiction counselor has been truly great, too.

it will be a shame in my opinion if you don't at least try.  to discount it without trying could mean the difference - literally - of a great life, vs. a very unhappy one.

i hope you give it a try...

good luck,
mj

[avisg]

I am going to take everyone's experiences and make an heath page so members can have a better idea what the suboxone both on and getting off experience is like.

[liscamdave]

I didnt at all mean that he or anyone for that matter should feel they need to take more mgs to be able to qualify for sub.. But sub itself is highly addictive and very strong. Once it is started, your body becomes dependant upon it. If you are only addicted to 30mgs a day, why would you want to be put on something that is much stronger and the w.d will be much worse? That was my only point. I was addicted to Oxy Contin and taking between 800-1200mgs a day of it. For almost 4 years. My dr.put me on 16mgs a day of sub. My best friend was addicted to 40mgs of Percocet. That same dr. put her on 16mgs of sub a day. Does that make sense? I understand an addiction is an addiction, no matter how big or little. But in my opinion, why start another med that is stronger then what you have been taking. It would have been better (in my opinion only) to taper him down to as little as possible then discontinue altogher. Rahter then start him on something much stronger and taper from that. But I guess with Sub your not getting high and/or acting as an addict would. But I do also understand your point. Just letting you know I didn't mean it like that. Hope you are well.

Lisa

[lovepat906]

The Naabt site has a normal curve of sub stories, Some great, some, not- some in between. But they do have long threads of folks who have made it with sub. Here more folks seem to have have made it w/o sub. My view is "whatever works'. I am a great advocate of never giving up.Nothing beats a try but a failure- and keep on trying until you find your magic bullet.

[worried878]

very true...some will have to use sub or methadone to get clean....it is better than not getting clean...just be sure u have to use these before u do it....no easy ride...i have used both...sub in a pinch to hold me over til pills arrived...methadone for pain short term...never had an addiction to either that i had to kick so i can not add to the struggle of kicking either...i knew better than to do either for long....but i do know that sub gave me a jolt/a high that methadone never did...never was a high quantity user so tolerence never was extreme...2 mg of sub would pop me into life with a sweet energetic high..the kind i liked...so i am afraid of it...methadone never did that to me at up to 25 mg a day...no jolt/no buzz...just a pain relief and peace without craving...but i am scared of methadone too...but i am more afraid of sub...and that is me and we all are different...fact is..be safe

[HenryS354]

Hey all,

  I wont get into my history of drug use,as the point is I used IV pharmaceutical opiates. I used a lot for 7 years, went the methadone route, and even underwent Ultra rapid anesthesia assisted detox, and now I am on sub.

Sub saved my life, but it is a real B**** to get off of.  I have been taking sub since March 25th, 2008 inducted at 16 mgs daily.  I am now at 1mg daily and having a hell of a time getting off.  I dont know if the wd's for me are worse than ct or just different.

I have noticed that people coming off sub either have one of two experiences... Pure hell or a cakewalk.

For me my sub wd's consist of Itching, sleeplessness, depression, and a lot of RLS, tremors, and aggitation with a lot of nervousness/jitteryness.  

I do believe that naivity can play a huge role in wd symptoms.

My personal experience the first time I wd from my DOC was unique, but i hear this from others from time to time.  The first time I ct'd I was using somewhere around 1200mcg's of IV fentanyl every 2 hours round the clock.  This went on for roughly 4 months until I got caught diverting drugs from work.  (I was a surgical tech)

At that time I didnt know what wd's were.  The ONLY symptom I got was some dizziness if I stood up too fast, or turned my head real fast.  And that was all.  It wasnt until I started researching and reading all the horror stories and pain that people go through with wd's that I started having symptoms the next time I ct'd or tapered my doc.

For me, sub wd's at this point in my life hit me a little worse than they should.  Im taking some time off from medical school (2 years left) And I wanted to see the world, so I took a job as an international Flight attendant.  Its hard for me to wd and taper as I am gone on extended trips overseas usually 18-26 days in length.  I travel through many different time zones daily so my sleep and internal clock is already messed up.  Somedays I will start my day in Keflavik, Iceland where the temperature is 40 degrees farenheit and get on a plane and fly to Kuwait where the temp is 120 degrees.  I spend many hours in a VERY dry and pressurized enviroment where oxygen intake is limited.  My eating schedule is all out of whack. And the worst part is lets say I have a flight Early Monday Morning at 2am, I fly all morning and all day into the evening (Usually 18 hour trips) get back around Midnight tuesday. I sleep late into the morning tuesday, then Im up all night cause I slept all day.  But the problem is now Wednesday I have to fly again in the early Am.

Its so hard for me to go through wd's because my body is so messed up.  

For the time being Im going to stick to 1mg until I end my fling career which will be soon.  Once I have some stability in my life, then I will attack this taper with full force, and finally get truly clean.

Best of luck to everyone out there, and many thoughts and prayers for the addicts and their families out there that are still suffering.

Henry

[sunshinedaydream3]

this makes me scared to even use the 2 sub pills i have

sheez

i may just say the heck with it and use the muscle relaxers to sleep and chill out

ahhh this ***** though cuz i GOT to go to school and work this week

[learning2befree]

what & how much are you withdrawling from

[Shelwoy]

Unless the brain and body have had enough time to heal from our opiate abuse- withdrawal from Suboxone will have difficulties.There was a time when I tried to wean to 4mg from 8mg,and I had some physical issues- decided to go back to 8mg for a few months.I tried again at that time, and did not experience any problems at all.Now, I can comfortably take 4mg every other day.
Sometimes, our bodies tell us we are not ready to taper, and as much as we want to be off of Sub, we have to wait.Choosing this type of treatment has ups and downs, and the sad part is, allot of doctors prescribing it don't know **** about it.Then people feel mislead, and say how awful this drug is.It is not the drug- it is the miseducation behind it.

[marcatj]

i agree 100%....

[mr.lucky66]

Do you really think sub saved your life? You could have gotten the same "lifesaving effect" from other longer acting accesible narcotic. I glad it helped you but I generally don't believe in drug solutions for drug addiction, but who knows. all the best

[Gunny_Highway]

I would say that you should only use Suboxone according to what and how you are using.  If you're on Hydros or something similar, have a steady RX for them, then I wouldn't bother with Suboxone, you can taper down with your own supply, because that is essentially what you will be doing eventually with suboxone.  If you're living day to day trying to stay ahead of the wd's on heroin or Oxys and doing risky **** to keep the habit going, then you should get on Suboxone imo.   Getting on Suboxone gives you the chance to stabilize your life and make changes, then when you're ready you can make the jump to sobriety.  

There is no magical fix for opiate addiction, it takes work and there will be discomfort at times- but Suboxone gives you a good chance to get sober again.  Going to the clinic, getting on Methadone and then switching to Suboxone, saved my life.  There are going to be painful moments, you are going to feel like **** at times, but if I added up all those painful moments they still wouldn't equal one day of going cold turkey off of a bad Oxy habit.  I've been going the clinic 9 months, started off on Methadone and tapered down to 30mg of that, then switched to 6mg of Suboxone. Tapered down to 2mg and Today is DAY 6 of being totally off of everything, and I'm feeling pretty damn good, very light wd's (no sweating, no chills, no  runny nose) but mild aches and RLS.  

The best advice I can give on Suboxone is keep your dose as low as possible, it truly is a 'less is more' kind of drug.  I would also go to a clinic if there is a decent one in your area, the support structure there has been vital to me, and they are allowing me to continue to see my counselor and go to meetings after I finished the program.  Some of the **** I've read about the Dr.'s that prescribe Suboxone is ridiculous, they don't know what they're doing, don't know anything about addiction or even much about Suboxone itself- giving you a bottle of pills and hoping you'll manage.  I've been to my regular doctor and an endocrinologist while I was taking Suboxone and neither one of them had a clue what it was.  Scary

[outotown]

I have detoxed c/t from both but when i followed dr's orders this time it was much eisier but was on it 13 months and did ezcatly as he said, it GAVE ME, BACK TOO ME. I think it saved my life, b/c i could not work until i got on it, today is day seven. GOOD FOR ME

[ga24473]

I have a 40 yr old friend who came off heroin with methadone (she took the methadone for about a year) and has been on 8 mil of sub for about a year. She wants to stop and is coming to my house from 800 miles a way to do so...I know nothing about this drug and do not know anything about the withdrawls but from what I have read on these postings...What do I need to know or do to help her???

[kim715]

bump

[dizzy83]

I've been on subutex 8years now and i'm so **** scared of my detox in 6weeks .

My doc says i'll be drugged up to the max not to notice the withdaws but i don't believe that one bit no detox is painfree.

I'm on 16mg and i get given 2x 8mg tabs and they're only small and i can nver judge the amount they brake into once i razor them into little bits.

has anyone got any ideas to minimise my wiothdraws and do a comfprtable taper ???

[Sophie08]

I have been taking Subs since Feb. 20, this year.. I started out on 4 mg. and I'm down to 2 mg., dropping to 1 mg. in 2 days. I plan to do that for 2 weeks then cut em.  I feel like I have the flu for about 5 days after dosing down then I seem to feel better. Can I probably expect the same thing when I stop them?

[Midknight777]

Everybody that puts suboxone down needs to ask themselves If suboxone did not exist where would I be today ? That's not too hard to figure out. You would be where most other "long term" addicts are, DEAD or PRISON . Suboxone saved my life and I thank God for it.I know alot of people who took suboxone and tapered off to completely quit. Every person is different but one thing remains the same A SLOW TAPER. My Doctor never told me coming off suboxone was easy,because I never asked.I wanted off the pain meds and the living hell that comes with them.I took 3- 8mgs. a day for a year. The next year I gradually went to 1/4 of a 2mg to literally a crumb a day for several weeks. Did I experience W/Ds? Hell yes I did for about 2 weeks.If it wasnt for suboxone I would not be posting this I would be in the spirit world. That is my experience with this "evil" bla bla bla drug.

[ranman249]

I am ready to quit subs ive been on the for over I year,now I buy them off the street cause I dont have the money to go to the dr. before subs I snorted about ten perc 30s a day im glad im not on those anymore im just ready to get all the way clean not half way im just wondering if anyone knows the best way to quit thank for any advice

[GA_need_help]

HI,
I am in the same situation.  I am going to try to taper this week.  I am considering going back to rehab (I just got back 2 weeks ago--I got off Opana ER).  I had tapered a lot on Opana--for 4 months.  I will private message you some more info.

Marie

[kentuckydoll]

hello  my name is diane an im from kentucky my daughter  just started  suboxones today april 17 2012  im glad your ok  my daughter is 28  with no kids  but has a boyfriend  that dose drugs  i told her it is going to be hard forn her   with this if her boyfriend still dose them  what am i looking  at as  she gos thought this with suboxones u know  what im asking i hope  so im not into none of the drugs  or drinking  how hard will it be  on her about two weeks ago she was in the hospital over dose  that about killed me  i sure dont want to go thought that no one

[sqweenkenby]

I don't get what u mean by " u'r not getting high &/or acting as an addict would?  I've never been an addict, so am i acting? & yes it does make sence because your friend is 16mg instead of 40mg. Good luck with everything

[sqweenkenby]

I don't get what u mean by " u'r not getting high &/or acting as an addict would?  I've never been an addict, so am i acting? & yes it does make sence because your friend is 16mg instead of 40mg. Good luck with everything