Suboxone or Methadone?????

Yeah, I'm thinking about treatment for opiate dependance. And I've heard a lot of mad things about methadone, and good things about suboxone. I have goverment insurance and I'm really having a hard time tryin to find a doctor that will take my insurance it's really expensive. Now I don't mind spendin the money if it really works and its worth it because my habit's at least $50 a day, if not than I shake,sweat,nausea,vomiting,dirreaha, and I've also overdosed and went into seizures on ULTRAM twice because I wanted to feel better and had no pain pills and no way to get any. Does anyone know if insurance companies are paying for the suboxone or methadone. I have a new baby 9 months old, 6 year old, and 11 year old. I've had 3 surgeries in the last 8 weeks. So I really need help any feedback will be greatly appreciated. Also, is it true that methadone is nothing more another monkey on your back and another battle with dependance???

[leeisgettingclean]

wellcome to the forum. you prob should try to keep all your post on one tread, it makes it easier to help you. I am going to give you my option and leave it at that. If you are only addicted to pain pills---you do not need sub or methadone. Why would you wanna jump from the fryin pan into the oven? I mean pain pill w/ds are only a few days a week at the tops--after that you get soem aftercare, learn about addiction, research, stay ahead of it, stay active in a program and work everyday at staying clean. Now option two, you get up every morning and rush to drop your kids off at school cause moms gota make it to the clinic, stand in lane--take your med-in front of them pay 14$ and go home, only to repeat the same thing the next day and the next day and the next day and the next day--------hey, doesnt that sould like active addiction----getting up, looking for pills, waiting on dealer, pay money,  go home, start all over next day---I mean really, is this what you want?  And not to mention the w/ds---3-7 pain pill w/ds---laughable compared to this beast---your talking months maybe even a year of tapering--and feeling it a couple days at each drop untill you fanilly have to jump at a certain dose---its like being smaked in the face by a train---w/ds that are 10xs worse than  pills and you think 3-7 is bad haha, try a month or more----and i mean feeling rough that whole time. I am telling you right now that IMO it would be a hugh mistake and only take your addiction from a lower level to an insanely high level.  Sub is about the same way----only differance is i dont think you gota go get dosed everyday---thats prob cause sub doesnt get you high--------but everything else is pretty much the same. IMO, your best option is just to lay those pills down and be down---prepare yourself for a few not so good days and just get it down. If you are considering sub or meth PLEASE do YOUR OWN researce on it-----dont trust doctors and stuff when it comes to this---cause i can tell you one thing for sure---u r messin with fire. Good Luck, Lee...email me if you need anything

[marie1966]

thanks for your responce and feedback. But on a normal day I can take 30-40 pills a day, and I cant do it on my own I've tried. my friend gave me a sub one day and i swear the next day i wanted another one of those instead of the pains

[gnarly_1]

HI Marie...well I cant speak for sub but I can about methadone....it is a road you dont want to go down...I was put on a low dose for pain management 10mg 3 times a day this worked out for over a yr then I had a falling out with the pain management doctor over
some spinal shots that I refused to take anymore...if you dident go with the whole program you dident get the meds...so out of desperation I wound up at the local methadone clinic
I quickly built up a tolerence to the stuff and wound up on 150ml of it in a mater of of a few yrs and then it quit working for pain control...so I was left with a huge addiction to break free from...it took 8 1/2 mo of agonizing tapering to get off the stuff going in and out of withdrawals along the way...when I finely broke free of the stuff it wasent over yet it took a good 90days to start to come back around and get past all the withdrawal symptoms...methadone is a dead end street and my story is not uncommon coming off it....all it will do is put your addiction on hold your then chained to the methadone
and a much more sever withdrawal then it would be if you just went off the pills
sub from all I have read on this forum does the same thing it only puts your addiction on hold the withdrawals are also he11 to break free from and it also requires months of tapering.....if I was in your situation I would try and taper down your pill intake and get it down to a much lower level then jump ship ....any way you go your going to have to taper off....you could just C/T off the pills and bit the bullet for a week and be done with it also.....there is no get out of jail free card anywhere you are going to have to face withdrawals sooner or later it up to you if you want it over in a week or so or you choose the methadone or sub route and then you stuck tapering for months and the final withdrawal can go for months....you really need to research this more b/4 you do anything...good luck and God bless......Gnarly    

[jamajessie]

Sub is the best option out of the two. For most people as soon as you take your first dose most of the withdrawal symptoms go away. I know for me all my symptoms went away. For me Sub was a life saver.Sub isn't just a pill you take, its a program. Sub also has a higher success rate than meth. As long as you follow the treatment plan your Dr's has you on, you will do fine. Don't let some of these people discourage you. You do what you think is good for you.  I know sub is expensive.Some  Insurance  will pay for the Sub rx but not the Dr visit. So maybe that will help. I know my Dr charges 140.. a month  but my ins pays for my meds. If you were spending 50 a day on your habit you could swing your sub visit costs easily.

Good Luck

Jessica



. To those people in this post telling you sub is like methadone.Those that haven't even took sub... oh but they know everything about it. To that person that told this woman not to trust Dr's I'm sorry to break this to you dear but all Dr's aren't the same. There are good ones that care. If your Dr was so bad maybe you should have found one that you liked instead of complaining about him. Should have done something about it.

[leeisgettingclean]

I didnt say dont trust doctors. What I did say is dont trust doctors on this--do you own research---I stand by that. No one should walk in a sub doctor blindly willing to acept whatever the doctor says. I didnt have a  bad doctor cause i bought 100% of my pills off the street. Anyways, glad the sub worked for you.

[salsinator]

Hi marie,

Not sure where you are located, but suboxone is often not covered by insurance.  Of the two - sub is definitely the better way to go.  At the dose you are on right now, going CT is going to be pretty rough - but you also want to consider that being on sub for more than a few weeks will have some withdrawal too.  Check all of your options - but if you are spending $50/day on your current habit, then a few days of that will pay for the sub doc and the meds.  Keep posting and let know how you are doing.

[jamajessie]

You hit the nail right on the head. Hell with the suffering through withdrawal. Life is too short. If we can make suffering easier I say go for it.

[leeisgettingclean]

I have no bad feelings.  This is a forum and the point is to state YOUR opition----thats all i am doing!  I am glad that sub is working fro you---it sounds as if you found a good doctor and that you are active in a program. I do know some that claim sub has saved their lives--for that I take my hat off to it, on the other hand i hear some that say it ruined their lives, for that i am unsure of it. But you see, this is all just IMO--I just know that you say "hell with suffering through w/ds, i say if there is something easier go for it" and OMG do I not agree with that-----however, I am not so sure sub is that easier thing, You do at some point have to come off the sub and its a dark ride through hell from what i have heard--so at some point you will have to suffer through the w/ds---I know people that tapered off sub so far down to crumbs and when they quit takin even that tiny crumb they w/d harder than anyone I know of from comeing off a heavy pill habit. However, I do not think the intention of sub is to "make w/ding eaiser" I believe its more so about maintaining your addiction through a maintness drug while you get very active in recovery--learn about addiction, learn how to cope, get past the strong overwelming desire for pills, learn to live as if you were clean and prepare yourself for a life without drugs and after you accomplish those things you should be more prepered to handle the w/ds....however, the w/ds are gona come and no they are not going to be easier just hopefully through your recovery program you have become more likely to make it through them.
    Again, this is just all IMO---no one has to read my post or if you do and you dont agree just dont listen. I also though think debate is healty and i have no problem with doing so. I do admire your desire to be drug free and it does sound as if you are on the right track. Good Luck, Lee

[Stevo977]

Hey, to answer your question about insurance, I'm not sure where you live, but I'm in TN and covered. I pay 30 per month doctor's visit and 30 per month for 60 8mg pills. Beats the heck out of $50 a day!

I don't want to be dependent on any "maintenance" drug, but I have relapsed so many times that I found that to be the best option for me and that's what matters most is what works for you. Like others have said, do you own research, find a doctor first that will take your insurance, and one that will give you all the facts about it and not try and just sell you it.

[mellie4]

Just to comment on "do your own research," that makes sense for going to any doctor.  You have decide what's in your best interest.  There will be people who say methadone worked for them and others who will tell you to stay away from it.  The same with the suboxone.

Personally, I'd stay away from the methadone.  I've been doing some research on it, as my pain management doctor mentioned it as a treatment for chronic pain.  I didn't know very much about it in any respects.  From what I've learned about it here, both on this forum and the pain management forum, as well as other sites and talking to my pain management clinic and a friend who is a nurse practitioner who works in orthopedics and rheumatology (which includes dealing with a lot of patients with chronic pain,) I've come to a conclusion that methadone would not be right for me.  I'm too afraid of it after what I've learned.  

The subs seem to have their own barrel of monkeys to deal with, but it seems as though with certain programs, you can use it for a very short time to get off your DOC and then get right off them.  Though if you're on them longer than that, the withdrawals can also be very difficult.

I think it boils down to there is no easy way out of any of it.  It's important that you feel like you've made the best decision for you and that you have no regrets with that decision because once you commit yourself to one of them, there's no real going back.

Good luck with making that decision; it's a tough one.  But whatever route you decide to go, remember that you can do this.  You are in control of your life and that you can find support here and with aftercare.  Many, many people have successfully overcome their addictions and you can, too!

[paintedangel]

Lee...Its all good man...we don't have to agree on everything do we? I will have to correct you though...Suboxone was created for SHORT TERM use ONLY and by short I mean no more than 10 weeks...its entire purpose was to get people off narcotics,keep them from having the discomfort of withdrawals and prevent short term relapse (by inclusion of naloxone which throws you into precipitated wds if you abuse any kind of opiate.Anything less than 10 weeks should avoid all but the most minimal withdrawal. Yes I know a lot of docs are Prescribing suboxone long term and they are going against the inventors direction and purpose. Sometimes I wonder if they get kickbacks from the manufacturer! Hey I know that happens! My brother is an ob-gyn and he tells me stories about drug reps trying to bribe him into prescribing their drugs even if the patient does not want or need them. But no...subs are meant for getting people Off drugs not keeping them ON.And really Lee, ya just don't need to be so defensive, you are a valued member here and your opinion is important (even when you are wrong! LOL!!!)

[leeisgettingclean]

Hey, Its cool--parhaps my massage come off as being defensive but  I wasnt meaning to be. You are abuslotly correct about us not haveing to agree on everything. I know that you are rite and sub was at first thought to work best when used short term however, doctorshave now after long term trails found that this is not best for the pataint.
First, let me say that this is only my opinion, and that there are other opinions. I DO think that my opinion benefits a bit from being an addict myself– but maybe it is the opposite and my opinion is LESS valid. So… I will leave that issue for you to decide.
wh ile buprenorphine has been around for pain treatment for 30 years, using Suboxone to treat opiate dependence is new. As many people probably noticed, there was initially some hype about using Suboxone for a few months, as a detox tool. three years ago 30% of the scripts were written for long-term use. Now, 70% are for long-term use, or ‘maintenance’. The reason: studies showed that people who took Suboxone for less than 6 months had very high rates of relapse. Another reason, in my opinion, for the change in prescribing pattern was the increase in the patient cap to 100 patients, from 30 patients.
  So as I see it, doctors now see that keeping a pataint on sub long enough to learn new ways of living has a better outcome instead of the whole short term purpose---but anyhow, I am not against sub or meth as long as the pataint has done  their researce and has tried all other options, and as long as they understand that it does not take away w/ds it simply puts them off till a later date

[laurel453]

Paintedangel, i'm really curious to see that thing of not having to go through any wd's after a short term use and i'm already waiting for the 10 weeks time ...

do tell us about it, please...  

[leeisgettingclean]

yeah---I would like to see that aswell---I am sorry but if you use sub in any amount for 10 weeks you will have w/ds----and they will be much more severe than any tab/perk/norco addiction. I am not saying this without any knowledge, I know a girl that used sub under doctor care for only 8 weeks and she was not wanting to continue on it---she followed his taper and she still w/d for 2 weeks---And I mean w/d worse than i did after my 150-200 mg tab addiction that i quit cold turkey. This is all I am gona say about sub thing---this debate breaks out on here about everyday---I have been here for a year so i feel like its beating a dead horse--I am not anti sub--I do think it has its place hoiwever, I feel that its a very small place and only for hardcore oxy//H//morphine and the higher up opaite  addictions, and only after all other options have failed

[DaisyMay3]

I took Hydrocodone for about 5 years.  After that time, the Hydro was not cutting it any more so they add, to my 10 mgs every 4 hours a Fentenal patch, after a year or so they increased the Fent patch mg along with the Hydro.  I got so tired of feeling the need for the pain meds, I finanally found a Dr. to subscribe Suboxone.  The Suboxone was wonderful but after over 2 years, the reality hit me that I was now dependent on the Suboxone.  My Dr. and I did a slow decrease in mgs.....to less than 1mg per day.  I was not able to give up small amount on my own.  I went to my family Dr. and for the past 8 days I have been taking Clonidine to deal with the withdrawls.  I tried to do the same type of mg decrease with the fent and Hydro but it was so bad I could never get past the 5th day.  The Suboxone is no different to kick than the fent and hydro.......the only thing different for me this time.....the Clonidine.  It does not work great, it only helps with the leg spasms and restlessness.  The side affects from the Clonidine are almost as bad and the wd's.  No sleep, can't catch my breath, depressed, can't work.....the list goes on.  I hope I am coming to a close on this thing.  

If you go cold turkey or if you use Suboxone......just know what your options are and remember every person is different with regard to medication.  Which is why only Dr's can perscribe them after they KNOW you.  

I am determined to do this but as day 8 is coming to a close.....

[vicki595]

Laurel~  I like your style...  Bueno mi hita !

[paintedangel]

I really dislike it when people twist words. I did NOT say there would be NO withdrawal for EVERYBODY I said that if used as intended there should be little or no wds. A close relative was a heroin user for over a year..tried everything then her probation officer told her to do the sub thing...she kicked successfully with NO wds except a runny nose and was off the sub in 7 weeks (tapering) she has been clean for nearly 2 years. About the studies and surveys...you can find a study that says exactly what you want to hear about any subject...by MY research short term sub plans work much better w a much higher success rate. Now I don't trust studies and etc...most are biased one way or another...I do trust ME so all I can do is remain steadfast and trust my dr and we will see what happens after week 10... and believe me I will be posting here on that day to tell you how it went. If it doesn't work then I go back on methadone...I now have that choice, But I am hopeful and have faith so we will see!Until then I will be here learning all I can and hopefully havin fun arguing with Lee! J/K Lee!

[vicki595]

UGH!   Time to pick up the toys and stop arguing. Everyone gets it...and please don't argue with Lee. It's an argument that's moot right now.

V.

[LeaAnn807]

Ok, I have to put in my two cents.  I think this is being beat to death!  Sub?  No sub?  WD?  No WD?  Methadone vs Sub???

Here's the deal.  And this is just the way I see it.  Just get the WDs over with, and move on.  Don't try to cover the WDs with something that is FAR harder to detox from later on.  Sub and methadone are options.  We all know that, but I also know, from personal experience with some SERIOUS drugs, that it can be done without either one.  I have seen ONE person on this forum who I thought could benefit from long term, maybe lifetime, use of suboxone.  I don't understand why anyone who "wants off drugs" would get on something TWICE as hard to come off of????!  Not trying to be sarcastic, but I just don't get it.  The WDs off most opiates would be a BREEZE compared to methadone or sub, right?  Someone correct me if I am wrong, ok?

Carry on peeps! : )

[vicki595]

I cannot correct you. I am afraid of you.     I think the price has gone up from two cents.
Inflation or something?

Anyway,I'm with you sister!

xo

[GA Guy]

By the way, to those that say that "you'll eventually have to come off the Sub"....no you don't. Many people are staying on Suboxone indefinitely.

[GA Guy]

And, I don't understand the whole argument that Suboxone is only for certain opiates. 50 hydro a day is much more deadly that 2 80mg Oxys a day for people with tolerances because of the tylenol alone. The decision to go on Suboxone should be tapered to the individual and their levels..not sequestered to a certain drug.

[LeaAnn807]

Vicki, Be afraid.....be VERY afraid!!!

GaGuy I think you're right.  I am scared for those people when they have to get off of it, or it runs out.

Before anyone goes crazy on me....I know that everyone is different.  Some people need things that I don't, and I need things that they don't.  Now, having said that, the only thing that MOST of us need, indefinitely, is some form of aftercare, so that our addiction is in remission!  

[vicki595]

Tram~   I wish you hadn't been sick all day!!   Could have really used your wisdom...
mine goes out the window when I'm emotionally involved and then I get deleted....!!

I'm scared for the people who never get off or are on indefinitely as Guy said.

Remember the man who got so sick of sub that he went off of it and became psychotic
on us. Whew!!

[LeaAnn807]

OMG.....I guess I'm crazy (and I'm admitting that, ok?) but I thought sub was designed to just help in an inpatient setting to detox people off of harder opiates and then OFF!  Sub isn't a lifestyle.  It's a drug....and one that people should be very careful with.  Aftercare, counseling, meetings, whatever you want to call it....that's what keeps you clean.  I have seen NUMEROUS people on here since I joined in January who were on opiates, and they went from those to sub.  THEN......they had to go back on a short-half-life opiate to get off the sub....HELLOOOOOOOOOOOO.....what am I missing?  Call me a dumb blonde, but I don't get it!

[leeisgettingclean]

sure you can stay on sub your whole life, you can also stay on tabs or herion your whole life as well...I dont know many that would choose that path--I mean I would think that the idea would be to eventaully be off everything. I never said that no one should use sub--I just think that it should be after all else has failed---I also dont see the point in going from hydro to sub unless you have unsuccessfully tried all other methods with no good outcome---now to go from hydro to sub and stay on it the rest of your life, that to me is inrational---hydro w/ds are a week or so, the rest is aftercare and working a program. But yeah, this subject is beat---some chose sub, some methadone, some cold turkey and some taper----is anyone better than the other-----absolutly one is, and thats the one that works for you!

[GA Guy]

What you're missing is that for many, many people...the end result of addiction is death. Some people never grasp the aftercare solution..and many overdose before they hit that acceptable bottom that makes 12 step programs a solution. Yes, Sub is a drug, but so is insulin. They both keep people alive. Far be it from me to tell someone they have to abstain from Sub or risk dying. Sorry to be so blunt, but it's the reality of the disease.

[leeisgettingclean]

If your a dumb blond then so am I. I am not sure what sub was first manufactured for but yeah, I thought it was something you use to help you get from active addiction to non active addiction....kinda like a bridge, I am not sure why one would stop halfway and decide that they would just stay on the sub for the rest of their lives.

[leeisgettingclean]

  I agree with you. I never tell anyone that they have to abstain from anything--If sub is what works fro you then by all means you should take advantage of it---but I also think that while using it you should be always preparing yourself to get off of it as soon as possible, but again your rite---if sub is what is keeping you alive it would be nonsence to stop takin it. I am just stating my thoughts here.....I am not a doctor or a expert---I am just telling what i know or atleast think i know about differant options--I am not trien to offend anyone or knock anyones recovery plan--I say to each his//her own...IF SUB WORKS FOR YOU I AM HAPPY FOR YOU____IF YOU CHOSE TO TAKE SUB THE REST OF YOUR LIFE I AM HAPPY FOR YOU

[jamajessie]

What happened to my post I didn't get to read Lee's reply?

[PerfectlyBroken0]

I was a heroin addict for 3 years. then took subs just to get through the withdrawals and then quit taking them. i was on them for about a week, maybe a week and a half. i had mild withdrawal symptoms but not really anything. i could still go to work and sleep at night! so my advice is to take the subs for like a week to get through the withdrawals and then quit taking them. then see a counselor after that. talking about my addiction makes me feel like a huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders.

[laurel453]

Ok, paintedangel, sorry if i misunderstood you, i didn't "twisted your words" with intention.But  I see now that your first post has been deleted ( don't know the reasons) where i understood that you were saying that suboxone was a  ¿wonder drug ? and that  you didn't understand the reasons why people went c/t  ( maybe we liked the pain and misery ? something like that ? ) when you can have sub and so.

After your answer to me and from the other two posts who were written before, i understand that you are saying that if used as intended ( i understand  well that you always  implied "short term"  when talking in those terms) there should be little or no wd's.

so i'm still curious about this thing of not having to go through any wd's ( or very little ) if used short term ( sorry if i'm "twisting" your words again). And yeah, i would like hearing about your experience here. True is that i think your expectations are too high with sub so the fear would be  for me that as you said if it doesn't work you would be back to methadone....I would think you would not have the worst wd's even on the case of having them but, pls, don't give up because of them.

...i have no experience myself with sub. I have friends here that after several relapses, are on sub and i understand completely their good reasons to use it. As it has been said i agree that it can be a very useful tool for them  to work on their recovery while leaving behind active addiction , etc. I have some friends too that their experiences have been very hard after using it for a long time. Another one is fighting greatly after a long use and doing quite well ( with wd's and so on, but he's fighting everything with a great spirit and don't think has a negative experience from the sub). The worst experience i have ever heard come from someone who jumped from a very high dose and this is something nobody should ever do as we all agree here..........

there are all kinds of experiences from what i know since i'm here but i've never heard of anyone  talking in such positive terms of suboxone ...i know you are on your first week  and it's been positive for you so long  .... and these are your expectations from what you have researched and what you've been told by your doctor so you have to experience yet that it's this way......, but nevertheless, i'm curious to know more about and that's why i'm so interested.

[vicki595]

Jessica~

Your post was deleted.

Vicki

[vicki595]

Painted~

Your posts were deleted by MedHelp Forum Moderators. They are the only ones who can delete anything. Forum members don't have that ability.  Usually a Moderator will send a poster a private message explaining what they believed to be a forum violation.

Vicki

[paintedangel]

Nope no notification...wonder how I offended...Gotta think about this...I may just say bye bye.

[vicki595]

Painted:

Yours were not the only posts that were deleted. I can only speculate as to the reasons.
But,it's not for me to say. I'm just another member here,attempting to help others in the most friendly(and sometimes humorous) way possible.

Best of luck in your journey toward wellness~

Vicki

[leeisgettingclean]

just keep on your journey to get clean----rather you stay or not! Your post were prob deleted because the tread started getting a lil neg and thats not helpfull for anyone--it was not just your post---heck i even had one deleted, so no its not just at random. Anyways, stay if you will----but either way stay  clean. Good Luck, Lee

[Dav125]

Geez, looks like I missed out on the best part of this spirited conversation..If I may add something, GAGuy probably said it best. Everyone is different. Needs vary from person to person. Some can afford to take time to fight wd's cold turkey and other's just can't handle it..Its up to the individual to decide whats best for them based on what information we learn from each other in describing our own times and trials. There's two sides to the coin. And we all don't reside on the same side at all times :)  Peace

[Violetblossom]

I am just going to give MY OPINION on this.  My DOC was Perks, but after that battle I got hooked on Sub too.  Not thru a doc, a friend was giving them to me and she found a way to have the sub make you feel a "high"  I will NOT go into that...but I got addicted to sub for about 5 months.  I have been free of it 2 weeks today.  The WDs were HORRID I don't care what anyone says, it was just as bad as all the other opiates.  I've been thru WD many times, so I know the drill.  The worst part of sub is it's half life is longer so it took forever to get the hell out of my system.  I swear that was my ROCK bottom I will NEVER touch an opiate again.  The fun uplifting feeling went away a long time ago....now I"m trying to see who I really am without any opiates.  I don't even know because basically I've been taking them for 3+ years seadily.  


So my opinion on SUB is not good, but that is because I didn't use it the way you are suppose to.  But it IS addictive.  I know NOTHING about Methadone...so I cannnot say.  I say if you can, just get off it ALL....and try try try to stay clean.  

Good luck!!!  

[vicki595]

I wonder what happened to Marie1966,the original poster,remember her??

Marie~  Come back!

xo

[leeisgettingclean]

well said. I am sorry that you had to go through this and learn this way. Like you said, you did it  own your own and without a doctor so parhaps it would  have had a differant outcome had a doctor been involved, who knows---but what cant be denied is that sub is addictive, an you will have soem major w/ds comeing off of it. I do also think Ga Guy said it good when he says that for SOME its all they got--it is their last resort---and to those people I say " Great for you" I am all about addicts doing whatever to get clean even if that means doing the work and paying the money and doing everything that is involved for getting on sub. Also, I do understand that soem will have to stay on sub the rest of their lives--I admire those people aswell--because they could have just as easy choose to stay on their DOC their whole lives aswell. We are all addicts and we all take a differant journey to get clean. IMO if you are using sub correctly and under doctor care --I feel that you aer cleaN, i know some might disagree with that and thats alright---becuase again this is just all IMO

[Dav125]

I'm going to take a moment to copy over a comment that was made in a different thread concerning the subject matter. I'm not endorsing nor disregarding. I'm just trying to reaffirm how two sided this issue is..Comment quoted below:



by HenryS354 , Jun 11, 2010 04:43PM
To: paintedangel
Sub is quite amazing that first dose isnt it?  There are going to be all kinds of awesome things that you realized your life was lacking the further you get into your sub treatment.

I was on suboxone for 2 years, 16mgs daily.  All I can say is use this gift the sub is giving you as an opportunity to fix the things in your life that need fixing.  Fix those things, and the mind heals as well...

I came off sub from 3mgs 24 days ago.  There were certainly wd's, and I wouldnt wish to go through it again anytime soon, but it waqs nothing unbearable like oxy or hydro wd's.  No puking or anything like that, and no real pain... just a lot of discomfort and irritability.  Its certainly tolerable, by day 10 I wasnt 100%, but was able to work a 20hr work day, and head overseas for work for 15 days. (Im a flight attendant)

Sub wd's are manageable, but dont worry about all that.  Enjoy what the sub has given you, and take advantage of this time.  This is the way sub was meant to work for addiction... to be used in adjunct with other recovery care.  It takes away the cravings, wd's, and erratic behavior so that you can focus on fixing why you used in the first place.  Just stay on the lowest dose that alleviates wd's and cravings, and work your recovery plan!

Good luck
Henry

[marie1966]

well today was day 3 quitting cold turkey, I had a really rough night and felt like I was going to die this morning. So went and bought pills I'm also coming off 150-300 mil a day of hydro and been taking that much for about 2yrs. I have 2 boys and a baby 9 months old so i cant funtion if i don't find a doc for sub. I feel like thats my only option, i'm also worried about having more seizuires if quiting cold turkey. not positive they were caused by the ultram or from withdraws. i'm alone all the time with my baby and 6 yr old and afraid having another one holding her or alone with them.

[laurel453]

Dav, when i mentioned several friends in my post and their experiences with sub, Henry is one of them. The one who was doing quite well with wd's and with a great spirit after a long time with sub...I'm sure he has done things very responsible and has fixed all that he needed being fixed and taken care of his recovery meanwhile.

marie, i wish  you all the best and all the luck now , that's the reason you are here....to find what works best for you :)

[LeaAnn807]

Marie, you need to get some help with your kiddos, ok?  That is a lot of responsibility to have while detoxing.  I know how hard it is, and I had a lot of help with my kids.  The ultram can cause seizures.  I had several of them from taking too much.  It lowers the seizure threshold.  

Talk to someone, ok?  Get some help!  You can do this!

[vicki595]

Marie:  Are the pills you bought Sub.?  I'm not clear on that but I'm assuming yes.

You were on a pretty high dose of hydro. 30 tabs of 10 mg a day?

You need a good Sub doctor... Avisg is a great resource for that. She she be around at some point and will help!

High doses of Tram will cause seizures. You've eliminated that right? (Yes...I re-read your post and see you have...)

Do you know how much Sub to take now? To start?

I agree with Tramahater,find some help with the kids for now. I hope you can..

Hang on~

Vicki  xo

[Emily_MHModerator]

Hi Everyone -

There have been some questions about deleted posts.  In general, we (the moderators)  remove posts when they violate our Terms of Use (http://www.medhelp.org/termsofuse.htm) or the Forum Guidelines (posted at the very top of the topics listing or http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Addiction-Substance-Abuse/ADDICTION-SUBSTANCE-ABUSE-COMMUNITY-GUIDELINES/show/1129973).  Sometimes, we remove a post if they responded to another post that has been removed, and without the first post, it makes no sense.  We try to maintain a flow to the thread.

We try to let people know when we have deleted a post, but sometimes that's not always possible.  

While we can't address anything specifically about certain posts in this (or any) thread for confidentiality reasons, please know that we only delete when necessary.  It's ok to disagree (and sometimes that's a good thing because it allows the person to get all kinds of opinions/info which allows for an informed decision), but remember that it is certainly possible to disagree without being disrespectful.

There is an old saying that I use a lot, and forgive me if I am not quoting it exactly, but it's something to the effect of "Long after people forget what you've said, they will remember how you said it and how it made them feel."  People will pay a lot more attention to your message if your delivery of the message doesn't make them feel bad.

[paintedangel]

Vicki...Let me clarify...when I mentioned arguing with Lee I WAS OBVIOUSLY JOKING!!Damn shame ya can't reread that post but it was DELETED. I will be sure and make it plain when I am joking in the future...I think ol Lee got it though!

WOW they deletedmall those posts because they were getting NEGATIVE? That is the most patently ignorant thing I have ever heard. Healthy debate sometimes is by its very nature a bit negative...I mean come on here....I reread that entire post and I saw NOT ONE instance of name calling or insulting behavior and did not think it approached being "heated" not even lukewarm. If the powers that be here are going to be that overly sensitive to healthy friendly debate and I feel like I have to walk on the proverbial eggshells then fells I am outta here....its ridiculous.
Marie I wish you the best of luck dear...I wish I was closer maybe I could help.

[Emily_MHModerator]

Paintedangel -

No where did I say we deleted posts because they were "negative".  I said they were deleted because they either violated the Terms of Use or the Forum Guidelines, or because without other posts, they wouldn't make sense.

Please PM me if you have specific questions.

Emily

[vicki595]

Painted~  That post is still there,I read it,and I was joking as well.  

It's fine if you want to address your dismay toward me but I have no control over what
MH deems offensive.

You can contact them by scrolling down and clicking on the "contact us" icon written in blue.

V.

[leeisgettingclean]

IMO we all need to get back to the origanal person that posted this. If you are more concerned about why and how the mods operaite there is a specific forum called "Improve medhelp forum" your concerns might be better addressed in that forum---

[vicki595]

Lee~  I sent Avis a PM about Marie 1966. Avis has a lot of resources for Sub doctors and locations etc..
Marie is taking Sub on her own...

Marie...post on the forum and let us know how you are now...

Vicki  xo

[avisg]

Emily great post the moderators have guidelines they have to go by .They also have HUNDERDS of forums they have to moderate .Gnarly ,myself and Sara can try to help the forum members as much as we can  ,However the moderators have the hard part .If you have a post removed and you don't get anything from med help if you ask the CLS we will do our best to find out way ..
avis .

[vicki595]

Painted~  Of course!!   No problem with that!!!

Here's an idea : Can you post on the forum and start a new thread?  That way we know a little about you,how you feel,etc...you can help and we can help and all be a family again!!!!  Okay??

I'll watch for your post~

V.  xo

[vicki595]

LOL  !       Just click on the profile picture and then click on edit.  You should be able to change it then. Let me know~

V.

[keith600]

Maybe those who have been succesful using sub should post more (title the post sucess on sub or something ) cause it usually seems like there are 2 posts on sub,,should I take it or how do I get off it. I also think that each persons option should should be ct/aftercare,,sub/aftercare,taper/aftercare, whatever/aftercare

[vicki595]

Painted~   Good!!!   How was it being a girl??  Fun,huh?     LOL


Keith~Good idea!

V.

[laurel453]

keith, good suggestions , the one abot sub and about those options ( ct/aftercare, sub/aftercare, taper/aftercare...whatever/aftercare ...)



btw, paintedangel.....i see you're now a bluepaintedangel ..

[vicki595]

Laurel...LMAO...you are a funnygirl!!!   (I have my pearls on)!!


Marie???   Come back...

[vicki595]

Laurel~ Who said I don't??   LOL     I'm wearing what I call my "sleep and play" clothes.
Very classy with the pearls,though,and lipstick...  :)

[vicki595]

OH....I never wear mascara...I don't need it.  I tattooed the liner and dyed the lashes
years ago... Now the hair................CURLY.   YUUUCCKKK  !

[Emily_MHModerator]

Let's calm down everyone and try and stay on topic for marie, should she choose to come back.  :)

Emily

[marie1966]

No pills i bought were hydro. however i have great news i seen a wonderful doc today and now am on sub. this is a amazing drug i feel great no more wds and i feel great. and he was cheao only 70 for first visit and 40 now on.he started me on 4mg twice for today and i go back tomarrow and hes suppose to up the dose then i go back in a week and then every two weeks. thank you everyone out there for all your support and concern. sometimes it feels good just to know that someones out there and understands what your going through and not being judgemental. i'll keep everyone posted on my recovery.

[vicki595]

Oh Marie!!!   This is wonderful news.  How did you find him???  He sounds perfect!!

Everyone is going to feel so good about this and happy for you!  Please stay in touch
about how you're feeling,how long the plan will be,what you're doing for recovery care,the kids,everything!!!

All the best to you!!
Vicki  xo

[Tammie2412]

I've been through Suboxone withdrawal & to be honest, it was much easier than opiate withdrawal  (for me anyway, everyone's different). Unfortunately, it didn't work as well for me as it seems to for many & I relapsed. I ended upon Methadone & have been clean for 3 years. Methadone has a lot of BAD side effects & I've heard is terrible to get off of unless you taper off sooo s-l-o-w-l-y. I've heard at the end you can switch from Meth to Sub to avoid the withdrawal. Once you are down to a really low dose on the Meth. Does anyone k ow if that's true? Im getting ready to have surgery, after that, I'm going to start tapering off. Methadone kept me clean for the past 3 years & probably saved my marriage & my family.

[medicineman668]

If you don't want any w/d try the Weismann detox procedure.  they put you in a ketamine coma for 5-7 days untill your w/d symtoms (symptoms) are gone.  people say they can go back to work the day after the procedure is done.  only a few states do this procedure because they put you in an induced coma for more than 1 day.  You are pretty much sleeping through your w/d's while being fed through iv and when you wake up you are w/d free and it is up to you to stay that way because it's a $5000 procedure. I think california does it and i know Mexico and Europe does it for $5000.  The ketamine infusion has been clamied to reset your pain reseptors so if you take meds for pain and want to get off pills this might work for you. I get a 1 day ketimine infusion for pain 2 times a year and it helps with my pain receptors. . I was on Methadone for 2 years 7 10mg tabs three times a day it made all other drugs stop working.  It took me a month to taper off and ive never felt better now that im off of methadone. I think methadone and sub are really bad drugs that I Wish i was never percribed.  Good luck to you All

[ufindme2008]

Great Advise

[ufindme2008]

From experience....I agree with Lee. SUBOXONE IS A DRUG FROM HELL