Subutex/Suboxone withdrawal after long term use, HELP!!!

[tommm70]

I am in day 4 of Subutex withdrawal. I was on it for 5 months. The first 4 at 4mg a day, the last month gradually tapering down to .5 mg.

I am in withdrawal HELL. No energy, I take vitamin B supplements, which help very short term. I am taking clonidine, which helped some as well. But the RLS is driving me insane. HOW can I stop this? And when will I start to feel better. Can long term sub users who have gone through withdrawal please help me?

I was always told the withdrawal would be very mild, and this is a miracle drug. I will say, my life and habits have changed. I have no desire to use any pills at the moment, and I don't expect that to change. I was abusing hydros after 2 shoulder surgeries. Counseling and support from friends and family (who I was deathly afraid to talk to) has been amazing. My best friends wife came over and took my hydros from me, and basically helped save my life. I am lucky to have them.

[avisg]

welcome ,
the fourm is alittle slow on the weekends , people will post so hang in there . I think that it is going to be very much like the withdrawl from hydros...... I am hoping you will start feeling  better soon , my only concern is the half life is sooo much longer so it may take longer to go threw withdrawl. I am glad you are posting ,we have a few people here on sub that have been told they wont have much along the lines of withdrawl when they go off of it . If they taper .... I had heard withdrawl could be pretty bad . I have heard if you stay on it for no longer the 21 days you can bypass the withdrawl.......

[tommm70]

Im freaking out here. I wanna puke, I am having makor hot flashes, sweating. THIS IS HELL.
I thought I could do this, but I am in so much damn pain right now. I dunno what to do.

[avisg]

I so feel you . YOU CAN MAKE IT THREW THIS.... when you are not having the hot flashes .an electric blanket can be great for the aches and pains .

[krashing_now]

Hello
the RLS does get better in time  thats hard to hear I think it is different for each person,
you say that you have no disire for any pills yet I think you said your taking clonopin ( I still take them myself  wish I didn't)
and I think  there is s slight difference between Subutex/Suboxone  but it can be life saving for people like myself who had a long term methodone addiction  which is hard to kick but it can be done .
Stick with it .

[tommm70]

Actually it is Clonidine, it is used to lower blood pressure, but does provide some relief for opiate withdrawal. It is not addictive, or at least that is what the doctor told me. But she told me the withdrawals would be mind too!

And Subutex and Suboxone are the same. The only difference is Suboxone has an ingredient added called Naloxene to prevent crushing the tablet and injecting it. I never used IV drugs, so they gave me Subutex. I definetely agree the drug is a life savor to help people stay off the bad stuff.

I do thank you for your comments though.

[tommm70]

Thank you for all of your suggestions and support. It is helping.

[wait2long]

maybe instead of just stopping...hear me out...
you were on .5 mgs right, you took you last dose 4 days ago...
this is how i am going to do it when it is my time to gt off the sub, and i have done it this way with other drugs with SOME good results...
EXAMPLE:
TAKE .5 MGS EVERY OTHER day for 2 weeks, then take .5 mgs every third day, then every fourth day...then every 5th day...etc...until your off them...also you can even get your dose to lower than .5 mgs in this time also, i have heard of people cutting it right down to .25 mgs and even less...maybe .5 mgs was just too high for you?  as everyone is different...
can i ask why your anxious to get off it? do you feel ready and strong enough to be without it now?  if so, then your doing the right thing...
i am sending you a private message right now, watch for it...ok?

[tommm70]

Thank you so much for the reply. I did not see the PM :( I am really new here, and am still trying to figure things out.
I am going to avoid taking it and work through this. I was given the option to start skipping days, but i declined.
I guess I just had an epiphany last Sunday and made the decision that it is time for me. I am having a very difficult time, but I have a piece of paper above my monitor that says. "What doesn't kill you will make you stronger, and YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS" I know it may sound corny, but honestly I stare at it sometimes and it gives me a vision of a life without pills, and dependence.
Basically it is just my time. I know this may last 2 weeks, and honestly, I was ready to cave in today, but I am staying strong. I have to. It has to end sometime for me. I have lost so much, and am not the same person I was before this injury. (Like many others, this started with a horrible shoulder injury and broken collar bone almost 2 years ago). I am going to get my life back, and I hope this is a life lesson I can share with others, and make myself a better person.


Again, it means a lot to know I am not alone, and I am very thankful for every reply I get. I hope I can make some friendships here. This forum is getting me through the day.

[wait2long]

do you have your profile set up here?
if not go to "my medhelp" at the top of the page...you should see all of your options there, along with any PM's that have been sent to you...
and you can set up your profile from there, if you want to...

[worried878]

Hats off to you....not as familiar with this detox as W2Long and others...they will be here tomorrow and W2L is here now...just want u to know I am praying and plugging for you...keep posting

[Penelope14]

I,ve done tons of research on suboxone, as I was kinda thinking about going down that road, but after finding out that it does have some drawbacks that mimic methadone, or any other drug, I changed my mind. The withdrawals can last somewhere up to two weeks maybe more, but from what I,ve heard, if you taper down low enough they are mild, but from what your saying I now question that therory to? Wow, whats a person supposed to believe? Lots of Luck, Penelope

[tommm70]

Well it is Sunday, and day 5. I think I feel a little better. I have also been taking the Clonodine every 6 hours as prescribed, so that may be a big reason. I was able to sleep pretty well thanks to that.

I ate about a dozen bananas yesterday, lol,  and took a potassium supplement, and the RLS seemed to be a little less. I guess it really does work.
I am still very, very tired, been taking vitamin b energy "shots". By shots I mean the the little bottles of energy drinks that have all of the vitamin B, plus other pick me ups. It does seem to help.

One new symptom today is a horrible headache. I know my doc said headaches are part of it. I took some advil, so hopefully that will be help.

We shall see how the day goes, the bad stuff seems to come in waves.

Thanks again for all of your help and answers.

[wait2long]

there really is a HUGE difference between methadone and suboxone/subutex, the 2 are totally different drugs,
methadone is a FULL AGONIST,
suboxone is a PARTIAL AGONIST....
going cold turkey off methadone, even at the dose i was at 20-30 mgs daily i was looking at up to 6 weeks of withdrawals, even when tapered down and jumping off at 2 mgs, it was PURE HELL...methadone is similar in make up and compared to heroin in its addictive qualities and how hard it is to come off..and never mind if your have been on it for an extended tome, you CAN suffer PAWS for up to 3 years, which is another reason people USUALLY do not obtain success when coming off methadone completely, the withdrawals are NOTHING compared to any other withdrawals i have ever felt, worse than heroin, percocets and oxycontins, thus my reason for switching to suboxone.
suboxone is nothing like this, it is not to be compared to methadone, i have been on both and the difference is HUGE. although i am still on suboxone, i WAS at 32 mgs daily (because sub wasnt even strong enough to over ride the WD symptoms of methadone completely until 6 weeks was over) when my 6 weeks was up, i immediately tapered to 10 mgs, with NO ISSUES AT ALL, no withdrawal symptoms at all. i HAVE gone up in dose to try to combat chronic pain and it does help SOME, but not all pain is diminished.
when it is time for me to come off suboxone, i will go as low and as slow as i can, no rush (and if it takes me months to do it properly, than i will), and i KNOW it will be nothing compared to methadone at all. there are plenty of success stories of people coming off long term maintenance of suboxone with mild discomfort...that i can do, this is attainable ...
methadone i couldnt.
they really should not be compared with each other, unless your talking about how they both over ride WD symptoms of other opiates and are used to treat addiction.
another thing...i could get pretty blitzed of methadone...suboxone i dont and cant.

[poetrygirl1960]

This is my first comment in this forum I just signed up so I am new as well.  I had an injury 15 years ago and was injured badly 5 years after that.  I've been a pill popper this entire time and even had a two year dependency on heroin within that time period.  I've never been a big drinker and the only other drug I had this problem with is Xanax, and even though my run with that wasn't as long it wreaked havoc on my body and nervous system.  I have also battled depression the entire time I have been addicted to opiates, which I don't know is or is not related to my addiction.  I tried several times to quit c/t, to taper off, and went to rehab 6 years ago.  I had resigned to the position that I was forever going to take narcotic painkillers, that I would eventually die and be free from my addiction and pain, and I believed 100% that nobody else could understand opiate dependency but me.  Not only is that incredibly stupid, but it is no way to live.

I had never heard of suboxone until 5 weeks ago when I entered treatment again.  This time I did it because I had a husband that cared about me.  He was very distressed over my addiction and on and off bouts with depression, so he finally spoke to our family physician about it who then referred me to a doctor that I am so blessed to know who specializes in pain and opiate addiction.  I spent 1 week in the hospital detoxing from darvocet, percocet and xanax.  I learned so  much in that one week of time.  Toward the end of my stay he prescribed suboxone to me and my life has changed in a million and one ways.  I have energy, I get things done, I am not in pain all of the time and even when I am in pain I deal with it.  My husband, kids and other family members have someone they can depend on now, who is there and not in "la la land" (as my mother put it) all the time.  I take 12 mgs. a day right now.  I'm still fresh in to this so I'm not looking to wean off any time soon, but I have been reading some of your entries here and it has been really encouraging.  You are all very brave and generous to help people by telling your stories.  It gives me hope which is a very new word in my vocabulary I'm using a lot of lately.

I do have a few questions if someone wouldn't mind answering:

What does RLS stand for?
What is PAWS?
How do you get to the point where you know when you're ready to start coming off of suboxone, because I'm not feeling even close to that point yet?

[tommm70]

RLS is restless leg syndrome. Basically while laying in bed you shake them and can't stop. Very annoying!!
PAWS is Post accute withdrawal syndrome. I am not familiar enough with this to give you an answer. If you do a search in the forum, I am sure you will find alot of info.

As far as when to come off of it, it is up to you. For me, I just decided it was time. Everyone is different. You and your doctor can figure it out together. The best thing about sub,. is it allows you to do the things you need to do to be pill free. I was unable to do that on hydros.
I have a support system built around me right now. This weekend I am literally on the phone once an hour talking to friends and family. But this is my story, you will have your own success story to write, and I wish you the best. Please keep sharing.

[wait2long]

PAWS.. post acute withdrawal syndrome...go to greatgreebos profile, she has a lot of information posted in her journal there about PAWS....
although generally from what i hear, PAWS doesnt happen with suboxone, could be wrong though...
in short paws is when you have some clean time under your belt, and 30 days, 60 days, 90 days or even a full year later you will feel like you are having withdrawal symptoms, even though you have no logical reason to be having them because of the amount of clean time..it can cause relapse for some without them really knowing why they were feeling this way...it is EXTREMELY common with methadone....that i know.
i have been on sub since may...IT SAVED ME!
good to see you post, and congratulations on getting your life back!!!
it feels good doesnt it?
if you ever want to chat, send me a private message ANYTIME!!!

[EnDoFsUbS]

Hey mate let me know how ur doing now as its my day 5 and i was shocked that i seemed to get no withdrawl at first (half life) but since if i didnt take my reg dose in the morning i would get it normally after sometimes only 8-10 hours which must have all been in my mind - i think! I was on 4ml daily now (or before i quit 5 days ago) down to 2ml unfortunatly ive had to obtain it through a friend so havent had any other help other than family coming off the stuff. I found the clinic wasnt able to suit me as i have worked at jobs through all my addictions even Crack and Heroin times, and i wouldnt be able to make an app so boom i miss 2-3 days worth of Subs. Anyone else found that when ur working a full time job which is shift work these clinics who promote "Back to work" really fall flat on thier faces? Fek the RLS its the worst part, well with the sweating hot/cold bits too.

Do u or anyone know what meds i can get in my local chemist which may help? I read about the vitamin B comment posted above and just cant see that working with this.

Did anyone else kind of come out of thier shell as if a massive blanket had been shrouding them on this?? Maybe its just me but everything seems brighter apart from the night when my leg is all i can think about lol.

All the best Tommm, i think u know as i that ur too far through to give up now mate i mean all this **** which will only be slightly longer or an easy way out back to the beginning to start the pain all over again another day?
GL :)

[EnDoFsUbS]

Sorry forgot to mention does anyone know if its worse the longer ur taking Subs 4 as i have been on them for 3-4 years now and just wondered if thats why im still not feeling ok yet??
Cheers

[marcatj]

Tomm.. just wanted to say that i've been reading your posts and i think you are truly strong, and very courageous. I wish you the very best of luck and a speedy.. "getting-over" of any side effects.. i bet you feel great really, really soon.  Kudos to you for what you've done, and for your courage..

EnDof - from what i know, yes, the longer you take them, the longer the w/d's.. so the slower you can taper, the better.  And good for you too, for getting off all the sh**! And if you meant when you stopped taking street drugs or narcotics the dark blanket lifted - YES!  that's exactly what it felt like for me, too.

Good luck to all...

[tommm70]

Thanks to everyone. Today starts day 7!!! I can hardly believe it! A week ago today I took my last sub..... Wow.
Anyways, I woke up very tired today, which has been usual. Once I took my vitamin B drink, I got some energy, and got ready for work. As I sit here now, I remember how I felt Friday when I was typing on here. It is a world of difference. I feel so much better. I still feel these withdrawals, and it still comes in some heavy duty waves, but it about half of what it was last week. I just hope that I can be a lesson that long term sub use does have withdrawals, and they can be severe. And this in my story.

Wait2long, thank you for asking the tough questions. As addicts, we have to do that. When asked how I will know if I can staff of the hydros,  guess my answer is my strength in God, and the fact I can have the life I once lived back again. I miss my old happy self. And so do my friends. When Gina came and took my hydros away from me last august I HATED her, WHO does she think she is? Well she is my angel for God. This is the wife of my best child hood friend who saved my life.

Thank you everyone else as well. I have a long way to go. I know that being free of pills is really only a tiny beginning. I can make up as many excuses as I want. "oh, I won't do that again, I beat this", or "well maybe just one pill to take the edge off", or my latest urge of "I will have my energy back if I go back on hydros' See??? This is my mindset. I go to NA tomorrow, and my friends and family are on top of me.

And I look forward to hearing all of your stories.
Thank you all again.
You are all angels from God. This site got me to today, I swear I wold not have made it this far without the support of some of you. you know your value to help those who want it.

I still have a major battle ahead, but I will win.

[wait2long]

YES!!! you WILL win this!!! your doing great hun...
stay strong!!

[flexpert]

good morning. this is my first post as i just found this site. i am on day 5 of cleaning out from subutex. i am sort of ok during the day. not much overall strength but manageable. i am finally eating ok. pretty well actually and holding it down. no more diarrhea either. that was a horrible 2 days. my first 2 days clean i slept almost nonstop and couldnt keep my eyes open. now i am awake nonstop and cant sleep.
i do pretty good all day but i can tell its not really me yet. then at night, i cant sleep. i dont get RLS. or maybe I do but it is in my arms and shoulders. i feel very edgy and almost "creepy-crawly" in my shoulders and arms. my legs are alright though. i only sleep 45 minutes at a time and have very strange dreams.
my last shot was saturday morning at 730am. (i did Sub different, which i wont explain becuase i dont want anyone to do anything as completely stupid as I did. but basically i was able to turn it into an injection from the pills and took it frequently in small doses)
but since then, no sub. i threw it in the trash and threw the trash into a dumpster. plus i left town for a company retreat for a week!
Someone, please, can anyone tell me how long this may go on? How long before I can get through a night of sleep? How long before I can walk more than a block and not have to stop and breathe heavy? When does the w/d really stop? I just want to be normal again.

[worried878]

u sound determined....and I know u will be fine....keep moving forward

[EnDoFsUbS]

Dude ur so lucky u havent got RLS but unfortunately i heard injecting can be a little more addictive when u mix the sub with water and put direct into a vein, i am on day 8 and had to go home from work today but i feel ok at this exact time. I wouldnt advise this as it can be worse but i got a small amount of diazipam and tamazipam however even that doesnt help with my sleeping. Im hoping im at the last stage and have been taking 4 mil Sub for 3-4 years b4 i quit and had got down to 2-3 mil when i did quit which is still pretty high to come off it straight away. How much where u on if u added up all ur injections daily?
Good luck man!

[tommm70]

I dunno when the withdrawals stop completely. Like someone said, the longer you are on sub, the longet the w/d's. This is day 8 off of sub for me. I can honestly say the worst IS behind me. Still have RLS pretty bad at times. Still have chronc fatigue. and from what I have read, the fatigue can last a long time. But the other symptoms are gone. Oh except I still get pretty bad headaches. No more creepy crawls, shakes, hot flashes.


Also, if you ever feel you have to go back on sub, tell your doctor to give you suboxone, you cannot inject that. Well you can, you will just get very sick.
But you are doing awesome so far!!!!! If you stick with it, it will get better, it will just take time.
KEEP GOING!!!!!

[flexpert]

if i added them all up i think i was taking probably 2-3 ml per day as well. maybe up to 5 in a rough day. but the last week i was barely taking 1.5 and the last 3 days i only took about 1 per day. in fact it was a bad mixture that landed me in the hospital saturday which helped me decide i am done. i had a huge fever right after taking my shot tht morning, which happened to be 1ml. it got to 104 and i lost my stability and got very dizzy. when i went to the hospital they were able to fix me up with an IV solution of 2 litres through a few hours.
havent taken anything since 730am on saturday. i dont have alot of symptoms, just tremendous fatigue. i have zero energy. i literally cannot walk 2 blocks without wanting to go to sleep. i will say as for sleep
monday night i slept in 45-60 minute bursts. waking up very shaky and anxious. tuesday i slept 5 hrs straight. and today i came back from work midday and took a 2 hr nap. i am relying on some vivarin to get me through the day as i am on a work retreat and cant be too lazy. but man, i just want to be better. it was my childs birthday monday and i spent the day in a near catatonic state from severe exhaustion. i cry everytime i think of how boring it must have been to be with me that day. i am quitting for me. but i am also quitting for my children. i cant be this person anymore. i want my life back.
so here i am, day 4.5. im fighting. i have called a Dr. back at home and if i cannot beat this by next week when i get back i am going to a suboxone dr for the 3 month course. if i cant do it on my own i will have a professional help me do it right.
please keep your comments coming. i need them. i am fighting here and i need to know there is a light at the end of this tunnel. thank you so much

[flexpert]

well i was able to get a small nap and felt better. i went back and was able to actually be pretty active and work out a bit. i felt strong and felt full of energy. of course i think that was more of the vivarin than anything else because i am tired now. but not the same type of tired that i was. i am just plain tired. not the extreme lethargy that almost hurts. this is more like, blah, tired. and i have a stirring in my belly. i feel slightly nauseated but can still hold down food. i had a grilled chicken sandwhich for lunch with some pretzels and water. i also was able to drink a bit of coffee. its just the head game of being tired when i look around and see all these people who i used to consider at my level or even under me (due to my conditioning. i train very often and teach muay thai). so it is hard to see them all look so strong and full of energy bouncing around when i am so dead on my feet.
my children. my wife. and my life. that is why i am doing this. because if i dont, i will lose all 3. i cant wait tommmy. i cant wait to be on day 8. if i am like this on day 4 coming into day 5. which isnt great but isnt terribly either. then by day 8 i should be twice as good. and maybe by day 30 i will be me again and my history will only be a part of my memory. please continue supporting those of us trying to beat this. your messages are inspiring. i do run to the comp. to check for them when i start feeling really bad.

[tommm70]

Hey, we will ge through this. Day 8 is about over, when I wake up it will be day 9! And day 5 for you.
One thing you wanna avoid is caffeine right now, I know you are tired, so am I. And it is nor a normal tired. It is a can't get out of bed or move tired. It sucks!!! But caffeine is going to make you feel like $hit.  I am actually going to the store tommorrow and am gonna start that amino ocid regiment that FLaddict has in her profile. It sounds promising.

Another day. We will beat this.

[flexpert]

i just got back from the pharmacy. i picked up some immodium becuase i read on another page that it has properties that help to get rid of some of the more uncomfortable aspects of w/d. not just the diarrhea part but some of the others. and i got some bendryl because it helps with the runny nose and sneezes and watery eyes. its the squirelly arms and shoulders and neck that i cant stand. i guess that is my RLS except it doesnt hit my legs.

[tommm70]

Well it is day 9 off of subutex. As usual, everyday is a little better. It is just wierd, Certain symptoms like the creepy crawlies and hot flashes come and go through the day. I thought I was past thatm but it still hits, but not as bad as before.

Still suffering from MAJOR fatigue, wow, it is indescribable. I can barely get out of bed.

Like I said yesterday, I am going to start that amino/vitamin program today after I hit the GNC. I hope it can all be bought at GNC.

To everyone going through w/d's, If you stay with it, it will get better!!! Sub is a longer than normal w/d if you were on it a long time, but it is getting better.
RLS, head ache, still there and strong.
I will update every day to those who asked.

Good luck to all.

[tommm70]

DON'T use the Imodium (immodium) for long, it is addictive as well. I would use it for 6 days or less. I used it and it did really help the first coupe of days. I guess it is kind of an opiate based substance, but it does not get you high.

[flexpert]

maybe i didnt use enough immodium. i woke up so many times last night that it was almost not worth it to go to bed. i had the rls symptoms in my arms all night driving me crazy and a burning in my chest like i wanted to throw up or something. the imodium (immodium) didnt help at all with the symptoms. but i only took 2 tablets so maybe that wasnt enough. and the tylenol PM that i took to sleep didnt help at all. its going to be a long day.

[tommm70]

See if your doctor will prescribe Clonodine. It is a blood pressure maintenance drug that is used for opiate w/d's. I'm telling you it really works!!!!
Don't confuse it with Clonopin, which is a benzo. I was actually given a benzo on Sunday night for a panic attack. it calmed me down, but thats all. I am out of those now, and feel the same as when on em.

Also watch how much imodium (immodium) you take, it is possible to O/D on it. It can suppress your breathing.

So try and get Clonodine. Try that amino acid/vitamin program, it sounds awesome. Call you doctor, tell him you are suffering. he may be able to help.

Stay strong!! you will beat this!!

[flexpert]

my regular doc has no sympathy for me. i did the sub sort of on my own so he is kind of being pissy about it. i have a sub doctor appointment on monday so i am going to try to work with him on how to do this the right way and come down properly. i have come to the conclusion that stopping cold turkey was not too smart. i am about to lose my job from screwing up so much this week and my coworkers are getting tired of covering for me. its up to me to recognize that i cant do this alone. i need the help of a professional. the dr i talked to welcomed me to visit him monday and he said he can and will help me to get me clean and free of this life.

[feohmoon]

Just noticed your post and wanted to say hello.  This forum is a wonderful place.  The people are very supportive and caring.   Best of luck to you.

[marrkymarrk]

Dear Tom
  I was using subutex to come off short term heroin, but because I was afraid of the withdrawels it took me three years. I have failed two detoxes before, but I am now on day 13, most people are different, but it does seem like it is never going to end, but it does because my friend did it! I feel better. the longest time it took me last time was 19 days, but as I say thats 3 years subutex dependancy and coming off at 2.8mg. My mate did it all in 6 days. It all depends on your matabolism.

[tommm70]

Thanks, I agree. It is getting better. This is my third week pill free and I still struggle with energy, RLS and depression.
Every day is a labor to function. But I do. I fight, I will not stop until I am myself again.
I have no more cravings for pills, and I have started to work out with passion. I am learning that exercise is so important to a healthy life style.

Subutex is tough to come off of if you take it long term. That is the lesson learned for me. I know it is a life saver to bring people off of pills and heroin. But my doctor lied to me. She said withdrawals will only last 2 weeks, and will be very mild. Those are exact words. I ASKED her how long I would be on it. Automaticaly she said 6 months to a year. I almost wonder if some of these doctors are in the drug makers pockets. But I dunno. I am just upset that I may have been fine with 10 days and NA meeting.  But what is done is done. I will not look back.

This board helped me get past this. And I hope it helps keep me past it. I am going to share as much as I can, and offer any help I can. AvisG, wait2long, and others did it for me. I want to do that for someone else.

[girlybuff]

You can go to opiatedetox DOT com and read stories and suggestions from people coming off Suboxone and Subutex.
If you are on this stuff for more than 21 days or so the acute withdrawal lasts about 2 weeks (the physical stuff) but the lethargy and PAWS last a lot longer then that from pain meds.  It's a very powerful drug and the doctors don't realize how hard it is to get off so they prescribe it wihtout warning their patients.  Honestly, it's not the miracle drug it's made out to be.  Theyh are finding out more and more about it.  
Bottom line is no one is getting off easy with this.  It's a crappy ride at the amusement park of addiction but you CAn eventually get off and start a new ride, the ride of life.
Good luck to you!

[marrkymarrk]

Day 15 and still feel bad. I have had an emotional crash today! Is there anyone out there who can confirm this does not last forever?

[wait2long]

hun, your almost there...your doctor DID lie to you...i have heard people who expect to have NO withdrawals at all according to their doctors, thus the horror stories begin, it is so very important to educate ourselves about anything we put into our bodies..i already learned MY lesson with methadone and what a nightmare i caused for myself because i didnt take the responsibility to educate myself about it.  
but it does end and your almost there...it does not last forever..although addiction might always be there, you can fight it, make sure your in aftercare and you can beat any addiction...tend to your issues with knowledge...your almost there...stay strong!!
we are here for you ANYTIME.
avis is having surgery today...so send her good thoughts!!!
and thank you for the kind words, i appreciate it!!!
your a sweetheart!
keep us posted !
wait2long

[wait2long]

tomm,  how are you doing?  havent seen you post?  i wonder how your feeling now?

flexpert,  did you go to the sub doctor?  what did they recommend for you?


and please...there ARE success stories out there...if you got off drugs because of sub...it did its job, if your still clean that means you got the aftercare needed and you did your job...it takes both, no miracle will do this.  dedication, commitment and hard work!
there are success stories...people able to stop their addictive behaviors and stay away from their DOC that was wreaking havoc in their lives, is success...

[marrkymarrk]

Day 16 from withdrawels from 2.8mg subutex and have had an emotional crash, god how long do these last for! What a roller coaster on Good Friday (more like feeling **** Friday) How long does the emotional and sleeplessness last?

[allaboutmary]

So sorry I'm not sure , but at 16 days I would think it should be easing up soon.  Can I ask why you jumped off at such a high dose ?

[marrkymarrk]

Is it me or does everyone feel like they are having a nervous breakdown! Arggghhh, keeping strong and I WILL Beat this S.O.B

[marrkymarrk]

Day 18 withdrawels easing off, but sleeplessness and fatigue quite bad! Still hanging in there it is getting better!

[marrkymarrk]

Tom are you okay? Not heard from you in a few days. Does anyone know?

[wait2long]

NO, i havent heard from Tomm70...have you??

Mary had a good question...why did you jump off subutex at such a high dose?
just curious...?

[marrkymarrk]

I came off at 2.8mg because I had been reducing from 8mg slowley the smaller the amount the worst I felt, so I thought I may as well do it instead of prolonging the agony. Today is day 19 and apart from lack of sleep and fatigue. Most of the withdrawels and pain have gone. So yes there is a light at the end of the tunnel after all! Not sure how long the fatigue lasts? Anyone know and sleep patterns?

[Want2Live111]

Hi.  I am new to this post.  I have been on 10mg of suboxone for 8 months, and having recently lost my insurance, I am doing my best to wean off with the remainder of the 2mg pills I have left.  Like most doctors, my doctor prescribed much more than was necessary, so I am lucky enough to have some left.  After reading many blogs, I read that the best way to come off was to cut your dose in half, cut that in half in two weeks, so on and so forth, to crumbs, every other day.  I have cut down to 4mg a day, and it is now day 6.  The RLS is killing me, the night sweats, the anxiety.  Does anyone know if it makes much of a difference to just stop and sweat it out, or prolong it over the next month or two?  I really have no support, my family would disown me if they knew I had relapsed again.  Any responses would be much appreciated.

[allaboutmary]

4 mg is still a pretty high dose to jump off of.  I take 2mg a day and I personally could not jump off it.  If you have enough sub I would continue to slowley taper. I think it will lessen the chance of relapse and be alot more comfortable for you. Be patient you'll get there.   Mary

[wait2long]

how were you tapering before you jumped off?

[youk9520]

I have found that when reducing Subutex if symptoms result the reduction is too much and should be readjusted. By reducing over longer times by the smallest increments successful withdrawal without any pain has been possible for me, Usually as the last astep I don't have to go less than .5mg every other day for a few days to stop with no side effects whatsoever. Have you found this to be true for you as well?

[youk9520]

Only my opinion but, both of the above descriptions seem to deal with abrupt discontinuation or a drastic taper. When a person transitions from a short acting drug to a long acting drug the purpose is to reduce the freequent drug seeking behavior that comes as soon as the short acting opoid wears off. You trade this behavior for an addiction to a long acting drug (you crave less often) that is harder to withdraw from (in terms of the symptoms lasting longer and being more severe). However if you titrate down the dose so that you feel no pain, stabilize and then repeat you can get to a low enough dose and infrequent enough so that the final withdrawlal is painless. Think of how long it takes to become addicted, to come off of a drug painlessly may take as long. If a person feels terrible pain they are probably reducing too much, too fast. At one point I was reducing .25mg per week, and maybe I could have done it faster but I felt no pain.

[confused456]

Catchiec.....DO YOU HAVE A FLIPPING POINT????????????????

[wait2long]

is there ever a point?  LOL!  has there EVER been a point?  she must have been bored because i wasnt here.
every story mentioned above (copied and pasted from only god knows where or written by the above poster themself, who knows, who cares) is because of drastic drops of suboxone or jumping off at a high dose...jumping off at 32 mgs?  no wonder they were sick...LOL! they even stated its was because of "their own ignorance of the drug"...i wonder how many people even read it...when the same thing is posted over and over again, its usually just ignored anyway...LOL!
no worries sweetie confused...

[wait2long]

WELCOME and CONGRATULATIONS!!! so happy to hear of your success with suboxone. and in working on getting your life back!! i would love to hear your story if your willing to share...you can PM me if you would like...again congrats!!

your opinion is usually fact, this has been done successfully, and CAN be done successful with very mild, at most symptoms.  your account is actually the norm of what i hear and read when done properly.  hey lets face it, you get sick from ANY addictive drug when you stop abruptly...so again the above "copy and paste, or made up post" is just  validating what you, I and plenty others say...low and slow leads to success.

like i stated above all of these "accounts"  real or made up, are all of people jumping off at high doses or a rapid taper, yes, people DO get sick this way, i have gone all the way from 32 mgs to 10 mgs with no ill effects, NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH...LOL!
but this is just another "repeat" post...nothing that even gets read, it gets skipped right over because its been seen too many times already. no one cares to read it AGAIN...

[marrkymarrk]

Day 25, coming off from around the 2mg mark and most of the W/D'S have gone. Sneezing a little, funny smells and headaches, but the bad stuff although it disapeared at a snails pace, has gone! (There is light at the end of the tunnel after all). All I have to contened with now is my insomnia. Detoxing is a long and drawn out proccess, filled with pain and horrible nights, but boy ws it worth it. Keep busy, keep a journal to remind you of the nightmare so you do not repeat it and like everyone says try to reduce slowley, I just wanted it over, but suffered.

[wait2long]

I am so happy to hear this...congratulations to you!!!
yes, your right tapering would have been easier on you...but if you decided to get over with and just be done with it and were able to do it, then your one tough cookie...congratulations to you!
insomnia is the longest lasting symptom of withdrawals it seems...
have you tried any melatonin?  or maybe even ask your doctor for some "SHORT TERM" sleep meds, just enough to get you in the habit of sleeping again...?
i am glad your over the hump and are on the other side now...!

are you having any cravings or any problems with your addiction now? ( just wondering for my own knowledge for future use)

[marrkymarrk]

I was only on Heroin for 6-8 months and hated it, it was the Subutex which I really became addicted to so no cravings. I always said I would need a week clear from being ill and I would never touch them again. My nose went a little mad yesreday, very sensative could smell really strong smells and was sneezing. I have zoplocone mild sleeping tablets and have now bought some herbal sleepers to help, getting there. Has anyone heard from Tomm70 yet hope he is okay?

[marrkymarrk]

Day 27, still can't bloody sleep and my heads pounding! I wish I could just have a good sleep this is sending me mental!

[wait2long]

no, still no word from Tomm...i hope he is well too, i have been curious to see how he is doing and hoping hes past this now, but no word...

what is zoplocone?
i am glad your better hun...and you sound well!!
just have to tackle that sleep, but i really think it will come with time...keep me poted hun and lets hope Tomm checks in with us!
W2L

[Kathy1010]

I am on day 10 & still miserable,but better than a few days ago.I got off subox at 2 mg and was told I would be fine.I'm glad I got off though,because the pain was horrible when I was still taking it.The pain is much better except for my back.I'm also taking Clonodine & it helps with RLS but seems to make me feel weaker.Maybe because my blood pressure is really low to begin with.

I have some flexeril for my back but haven't taken it.Do you think that would be a bad idea?I thought it might help with sleep but don't know how it interacts with clonodine.

[marrkymarrk]

Any tablets your unsure about ask your doctor, keep hanging on in there. The worst of it goes around 16-18 days. I am on day 28 and still have a bad stomach, but the other stuff has gone and I came off over 2mg, well the last week was 2.8mg then dropped the last three days to something like 1.6mg! The first three weeks are the worst part to 21 days, then you start feeling better. The insomnia can last a few months, but I am on 28 days and getting some sleep. Your body will go to sleep when it needs to, I just watched a load of Dylan DVD's lol. You think your the only person on the earth suffering and it is a nightmare, but keep in there. There really has to be a different life for you and me!

[marrkymarrk]

This is the 33rd day and I cannot believe I am still feeling some (minimal) withdrawels? How long do the little things last for, because it is really getting on my nerves and feels like it is never going away! I was told two weeks tops? Sweating under armpits small shivers aches and my eyes are still watering! All the bad stuff has gone, but the lack of sleep is still a problem and I reckon I am now addicted to sleeping pills! I spent three years on Subutex, so perhaps it just takes longer? Anyone know?

[macuan]

i want to get off contin and dilaudid. IV user. Somebody tells me have I tried suboxone or some such thing. Never hear4d of it. then I see these postings of suboxone withdrawals.
i'm not going sub anything in. My whole life has been one big addictiopn. I kicked H back in '92 I surely can getoff this. tho I filled the heroin void with other things. enoughBS

[worried878]

May be a good idea to repost this and call it like "I need info on Sub"  this is anolder post and people can look at yours fresh...i have no experience with sub but many do and can help you

[Malibu70]

I stopped taking Suboxone 6 days ago and am having a hard time. Here is my drug history. In 1997 I got addicted to pain pills. The rehab clinic that I went to told me that Methadone would help me get off the pain pills. Boy was that the biggest mistake of my life. Two years latter I was still on Methadone . in 1999 I finally kicked the Methadone. It was hardest thing I have ever experienced. For me, the withdrawals lasted almost a year. If I wasn't consumed with law school I probably would not have been able to deal with the withdrawals. Anyway, I stayed clean for 4 years and then decided to screw my life up again. A year an a half ago I decided to take Suboxone. I started at 8 mg. Three months ago tapered to 4 mg. Two months ago a tapered to 2 mg. From 2 mgs I went down to 1 mg and finally stopped at .5 mg.

HOW I FEEL NOW?

Well the withdrawals are no where near as bad as Methadone. Not even in the same ball park. Anyway, I have very little energy, I cannot sleep, I have RLS, and I am sneezing a lot. Yesterday seemed to be the hardest. Today, I feel bad, but not as bad as yesterday. My doctor prescribed me Clonidine and Bental. They seem to help a little. I have been working everday which also seem to help. In fact, I thing working (although really hard to to with no energy) helps the most.

NOW FOR THE QUESTION: Can someone tell me when they started feeling better? I was told that the first week off Suboxone is the worst . I was told that after the first week I would gradually feel better and by week three I should feel close to normal. Does this sound accurate? Also, I was told that Imodium (immodium) AD helps with the wd. I realize that Imodium (immodium) is a type of opioid. If I took Immodium would it make the withdrawals last longer?  

[NickUK1981]

Hi My name is Nick.

Just fund this forum! I'm on day 1 of coming off of Subutex! (so the last pill took was yesterday morning) So far all seems ok!! have been a bit worried about work and how I'm going to be.....I was on it for about 11 months and started at 8mg for about 6months then to 6mg for another 3months, and I decided to go down quite quick after thats so 4mg for a month then just been on 2mg for 3 weeks.....so I'll be checking in here with my progress BTW the reason I was on it in the first place was pain killers (codeine) addiction from about 4-5years taking at my peak about 40 pills a day!...today was strange not going to the chemist in the morning  (I got quite friendly with them!)....but it's really nice not to be taking anything at all.....I recently quit smoking , unaided!!! will power alone (and Buddhism!!). If your will  and your heart are strong anything can be overcomed! anyways speak soon. Nick in sunny London  England (Not!)LOL!

[allaboutmary]

Welcome to the forum.  I'm afraid you will experience withdrawal. 2mg is a high dose to jump off of. Can you get more and break it into pieces , then take it every other day, then every third day etc...   I don't want to discourage you because you sound so ready to be done with this. Just wanted to warn you what could happen.  Any way you go, this forum is a great place for support.  Congrat's on quitting smoking. That's something I have wanted to do for some time, with no luck.  

[lovinlifenyc]

I have been on Suboxone for more than 5 years and have tried many many times to quit, mostly cold turkey, from 2-4 mg/day.  While cold turkey is not the way to go, i can tell you that each time i tried, it gets a little easier.  Right now, i'm trying once again, and I"m 7 days free, and day 7 = not so bad.  Day 4-6 = hell!! But, it slowly gets better.  I have an appointment tomorrow to get another prescription, which I plan to do, but at this point, i'm not sure that I'll take them. If it helps anyone, each time i've tried, i think my receptors have "learned" from the last time and have slowly started to produce dopamine a bit more rapidly.  With some more time, I'll be free for good!  Hope this helps someone who is struggling with this.

[avisg]

Hi this is an old thread why dont you copy your post and start a new thread

[Cindy83]

Have been on subutex for 20 months. I was down to 1 mg every other day. Stopped completely 10 days ago. I just want to jump off a building! My psychiatrist is out of town and I have no one to call for help. Went to my primary care doc and he prescibed ativan. Feel like I am on the road to relapse. Doing meetings but have not talked to anyone else about this - HELP!

[worried878]

this is an old post..a new one would draw more attn to ur needs...sub wd can be lengthy but many survived it here...ochooked can help u with it....2 weeks seems to be the worst of it so u r close....that drug has tentacles that hang on for dear life....earlier someone posted how well they were doing after a year or so and now at 0.5 mg...i thought o myself  ":if they only knew what it is gonna be like when they drop that final .5 mg?  ouch and i feel for those who get on this drug without knowing how strong it is...0.5 mg is equal to 5-10 mg of methadone...15 mg of hydro...7-10 mg of oxy...0.5 seems so minute in amount ...but it is not in the world of super synthetic narcotics like sub

[hitout]

I am currently on .5mg subutex and have 5  -  2mg pills left before I jump. Since I can't take time off from work I have to do this while I am going to work. Hope to jump off thursday and take friday off. Hopefully the first 24 hours would not be that bad. Any siggestions?

[hitout]

Also, Does someone know how to reduce Sweating / Hot flushes. That seems to be the most symptom that bothers me most.

[hitout]

Also, I have been on Subutes for 6 weeks. Started at 4 Mg a day and then did the taper to .5mg. Have had very minimal discomfort during the taper (might have imagined the discomfort). When I jump off - how bad is it going to get?

[LaurenB5101]

I have been on subutex for 5 years. I am tired of the doctor saying he is going to get me off and 5 years later he did nothing. I did it all myself.  I stopped taking it Monday night and today is Thursday. I was taking approx 4mg a day. I have lost my insurance and I do not have $800 to fill a script.  I am cold turkeying it.  Help.  I need suggestions.  I know it is not going to go away but I need something to talk the edge off.  I have a 1 year old and it is so hard to take care of her like this

[JasonSATX]

Lauren- I have been on 8mg of SUBOXONE for 14 months and for the past month have tapered down to 2-2.5 mg a day. If you are going to go cold turkey than i would DEFINATELY SUGGEST A TON OF EXERCISING IN THE EVENING. It WILL  help you sleep. You will also need to take a very hot shower/bath after working out!!! If you know anyone who has Valium, Xanax, or even muscle relaxers these will help in the evening. You are doing great to be on day 3 or 4 so stay strong mentally. So- lots of coffee in the morning (take a HOT shower in the a.m. as well) try your best to stay active, work out in the evening- as much as you can handle, and if you can get some Valium, Xanax, etc. Let me know if this helps. -J-

[Royboy614]

I just read this entire thread starting Mar 01 2008 and now I'm scared ********. I've been taking suboxone and subutex for about a year now. A friend gave it to me to help me get off of alcohol and it worked wonderfully. I didn't drink anything for 8 months and when I did, it didn't feel like it used to and couldn't drink very much.  I'm not going back to drinking since I'm a severe alcoholic. I get life threatening DTs and can't stop drinking every day all day until I'm near death.  This is the longest I've been sober from alcohol in years.  I'm very afraid to stop taking subutex or being cut off from it. I had no idea that it was this difficult to get off of. My life was totally screwed up before I started taking it, and now I'm afraid it's going to go down hill when I stop taking sub.  I've just felt normal taking this stuff, with the exception of a "boost" shortly after I take a half.  I'm not even sure how much I take a day besides a 1/2.  I guess I'll ask.  I'm also taking a very small dose of Clonazapam (Klonipin) for anxiety.  I believe that I naturally have very low dopamine production and have been anxious and depressed most of my life.  But, about 5 years ago I went on a drinkng binge and someone introduced me to crack.  Two weeks later and in the same motel room... My 18 year career is gone, my family gone, my house gone...  Wow. Now I'm basically living off of my girlfriend and I'm so ashamed of it.  I do PC/Laptop repair from our home, but got in some trouble with the law while I was on my big binge 5 years ago and now I can't seem to get hired anywhere and IT is the only thing I know. I'm such a nervous wreck I can't wait tables anymore. I did that for a couple of years ago. I fear that I'm going to end up institutionalized or in a shelter.  I thought nothing of getting off of sub and I can't believe the horror just after a couple of days.  I have horrible horrible dreams. I feel like my entire life has been a failure and I have zero happy memories.  I never used to be this bad.  I fear that I'm going to go completely insane if I have to get off of sub.  Sorry to ramble on.. I still have my supply of sub, but one bad day and it could be gone instantly.  I want to get off of it and am very afraid now..  Thanks for all of the great advise and sharing your personal experiences.  I feel like I'm a much mentally weaker person than the average joe, but that's that terminal uniqueness popping up.  I'm sure lots of folks have felt worse than I have.  I haven't established a user name yet, but look forward to knowing you folks.  I'm sure I'll desparately need you soon / someday..  I also wonder what happened to the guy named Tommy...  Did MarkkyMark make it?  I skipped down a bit..

[refusingbondage]

First --- Dont be afraid of anything.  You have made huge accomplishments and strides in your life.  You have a year sober from alcohol and that is something to be proud of!  While Ive never heard of suboxone being used for alcholism (alcoholism), I think it for sure helped your cravings.  I was on suboxone for drug addiction and I can say for sure that I rarely ever wanted to have a drink on it and when I did drink on it, alcohol had very little effect on me at all.  I am generally not pro sub but I do know for certain it has its place in recovery and can be an extremely useful tool.  Are you going to AA meetings?  Do you have some other recovery support?  This will be key in helping you get off the suboxone. For me, cravings for drugs on suboxone were pretty non-existent however they did return after coming off of it.. While on it, its a great opportunity to get a recovery plan in order to help you live life sober and clean once your off of everything.  You have nothing to be ashamed of.  Sub has given you freedom from alcoholism.. now USE this time to seek help, counseling, meeting, support.  There is no time limit on sub use.  Use it as you need it.  You've been on a while, so if you do plan on coming off, you will need to slowly taper down to nothing, a tiny crumb or sliver of sub, before you quit.  But its nothing to be afraid of.  When the time comes, just do it and be strong and confident -- it wont kill you.. and LOOK how much you've already accompplished!  Alcoholism is a whole different monster in my eyes and I am amazed by recovered alcoholics.. some of the strongest, toughest people Ive ever met have not been able to beat the alcoholism demon.   And I would strongly urge you to do this with help.  We will help you here for support for sure, but it would be good to talk to a doctor as well..See a counselor, find a meeting, find a sponsor.. there is so much that goes into recovery.. Best of luck!  Keep posting and let us know how your doing.

[foreverannie]

I am currently 3 days off of suboxone. I was taking less than a milligram, nut I have been on Sub for over 4 years for pain pill addiction. I have been experiencing sweats and Restless Leg Syndrome at night that leaves me exhausted during the day. Last night I found myself sleeping in the chair and taking a bath at 3:00 A.M. I never thoughht that I would experience this from only taking less than a milligram.
Sometimes I feel nutty. I have two small children to take care of and a part time job as a substitute teacher- so I have has this my addiction for many years and have felt very guilty for even being in this mess- proof that addiction could happen to anyone.
As everyone else, I just want to feel normal again. I don't want to have to go to the Sub clinic at 5 in the morning which is all I can think about! I can't even remember the days where I didn't think about some kind of pain pill. I did take a Darvocet today to help me walk with my legs. It rained hard last night and the weather seemed to make it worse. I feel so guilty about taking that pill, but I didn't know what to do and I felt a mild pain pill will help. I found this website encouraging, but I am starting to wonder about those who have quit journaling. Did they give in. I don't want to be that person. God give me strength!

[etchtech]

I became addicted to Opiate's in Nov. 2006 after a hip surgery.  I have now been on Suboxone for 13 months.  It has given me my life back.  I no longer have cravings for opiates.  After leaving a 4 day detox in March of 2008 I was prescribed 8mg 3x/day.  I have only managed to taper down to 20mg/day.  I am beginning to feel like I have been on this medicine for too long now.   Are there any long term side-affects of Sub?  I guess I just dont know if I should try and get off of it or if I can stay on it indefinitely.  Suboxone has also taken away my desire for alcohol.  I am an alcoholic who was 3 years sober, and went to meetings every day.  I couldnt go a day without a drink unless I was in jail or a detox.  I guess what I'm wondering is whether or not this "drug" can be taken for many years without major physical or emotional side effects.......

[nikki729]

ive come across this forum after looking for long term side effects from suboxone , ive been taking suboxonw now for a little over 3years defenitly ..  a wonder drug  i  dont think i could of  done it with out the help , well anyway i hope all of you on subs or coming off the best of luck its one heck of a roller coast ride but well worth it !!!

[camp3boards]

This is my 14th day off of subs. i definitely feel better then the first week. still not sleeping well and have absolutely no energy. I take a clonidine every night before ed and it helps me sleep for about 6 hours which i must say is better then the 45-60 minutes i was getting on days 2 and 3. I have been taking daily vitamins and exercising 3-4 days a week  by weightlifting. For all those who  have bad RLS the best thing to  do is leg presses, squats, and go for walks. Themore you exercise the better your body feels and the more tired your body gets naturally. After all that is what u are trying to do is return your body to some state of normalcy. I think the worst is behind me and now is more about being mentally tough because I know that if i take an oxy I will sleep like a baby. Hang in there everyone it does get better each and every day. From what I hear, most people feel 100% after a month of this. So I feel like I am half way there! i will post again at day 30 to let everyone know the difference between 2 weeks and a month

[Lamboxash]

While you take subs after stopping the opiates you need to give your receptors and thus your brain time to heal...I was on subs for almost 2 months. Relapsed twice. But when I tappered Down from 2mg a day to 1mg a day I went cold turkey. Withdrawal *****. There is no way around it. You caught brain damage from doing pills too long. You just need to try and find that zen in you and know that over time everything heals and so will your mind and soul. Everyday you stop all pills is another climb out of the hole. Before you know it there will be no hole but a pretty little flower in the spot it once was.

Stay strong, and stay tough. During withdrawal also take two advil in am two Tylenol in afternoon and two advil before bed. It won't eliminate the pain but it will help the climb.