Suicidal Thoughts

I have been seriously considering suicide for the last few days.  I can't stay off the drugs for longer than 2 weeks at a time and I don't see a positive future for myself anymore.  Maybe all this is because while I was on vacation in germany I was mixing oxy, xanax and alcohol.  Whatever the reason I just don't want to live anymore death would be so much easier.

[IBKleen]

You are scaring me David. NOTHING is worth that. NOTHING.

You have to get back on track. Relapse is not the end of the world. It is a bump in the road right now.

You told me you were going to go to a meeting. Did you? What about counseling? Do they offer anything at work?

You need help. I know it, and you know it. And there is help for you. Please say that you will give it a try.

[hopsing94]

hold up man that is no way to think, first that the easy way and cowards way out and i don't think that is what you wanna do. If you are having thoughts like that you need to get some help. There were time when I would think of it but now way I could. Getting clean is not easy but is sooooo soooo worth it and it can be done. You've got to quit thinking like that,thats the drugs not you. Please get some help
John

[buttercups]

Oh man :(

David, you have to realize that the depression WILL subside. It's only temporary, but you need help. Talk to a doctor, counsellor, ANYBODY!....
One of my relatives used to say "Suicide is a permanent decision to a temporary problem"

Please, please try to remember how good life is without drugs.You can get there again!

And keep posting...anything that helps get it out.

[taekwondo_fighter]

taking your life because of some stupid pills is not worth it.  read all of the forum posts..  WE ARE ALL HAVING A DIFFICULT TIME WITH THESE PILLS!!.   you are not alone..  we're all here for you...  you can get off of this ****.. so please do not think suicide..  its not worth it!! stay strong!!  just the fact that you can go 2 weeks without anything is an AWESOME start!!  I cant do that yet!!
" life does not give you obstacles that you can not handle "..  this is just a hurdle you need to jump over.....

[nogie1717]

You aren't alone in your suicidal thoughts.  I was suicidal, but I couldn't bear the thoughts of hurting my mom, grandma, wife, etc.  It was just to selfish.  

Addiction is horrible and can make us think irrationally.  If you can't stop by yourself, go to meetings, counseling.

I take Suboxone and it has helped me tremendously.  Am I truly clean?  I suppose some would say no, but I live a healthy life and that is all that matters to me.

There is hope.  Check your options and please, keep us posted.

[david0263]

I did go to 3 meetings yesterday, but this feeling just won't go away.  I also talked to my sponser last night and he wants to see me this afternoon.  I need professional help.  I suffer from deep depression sometimes and this is what this feels like.  I don't think it's about the relaspe although that may be part of it.  I think its more about beginning step work and its bringing back feelings that i don't want to deal with.  I thought I dealt with that pain long ago but I guess not.

[avisg]

There are so many people in your life that would disagree with you ,
about it being easier .You have people that LOVE you. It would not be easier for them . Dont you dare let this addiction take your life .Relapses happen, I had a three week one in aug. After months of being clean I fell off the wagon .I could not dwell on that I had to get back on track life is wonderful clean and believe me when i say you deserve it YOU REALLY DO!!!!!!!! It is time to talk to someone about this ....... we are here to help.
avis

[IBKleen]

If the step work is getting you like this---stop it! Talk with your sponsor. Get honest with him and tell him that you are not ready. Geez David, I was two years clean before I did my first 4th step. If I would have done it before that, I KNOW I would have relapsed. All I could do for the first two years was go to meetings. Even that was hard. I could not face my demons that early on in recovery.

The good news is that you know you need help and you know how to get it. I think a trip to your doctor is also in order. If you need to be on anti-depressants, there is nothing wrong with that. Depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain. It needs to be addressed. There is no reason for you to suffer like this.

I am worried for you. Please post later and let us know you are ok.

[1234betterlife]

you need to get in and see a physician. first, let me tell you the side effects of xanax and alcohol absolutely produces feelings of helplessness, depression and suicidal thoughts. this is not uncommon. you need to discuss with your doctor or a new one and get you on track away from these meds and onto some that will get you through this severe depression and life reflection.

[Angel929]

I think everyone that has responded  so far is right.  It is not the answer.  I think you are looking for help, and you have started in the right place, but you also need to speak with a doctor.  What your feeling could be the result of a bad reaction to the meds.  Please dont give up!!!  A lof of us have been there where I hope starts running thin, but it can get better. A doctor will be able to help you with the withdrawals and with any depression issues you might be experiencing also. PLEASE take this advice!!!!!!!!! Concerned! Angel

[bandnmom]

You said you can't bear the thought of hurting you mom, wife etc....what do you think that would do to them. Someone close to me took his own life several years ago and i'll tell you what, it hurts. His suffering is over but those he left behind suffered even more. Go talk to someone, get some help. You are a good person with an addiction. You will overcome this!! It will get easier!!

[GoingToMakeIt]

When I was that depressed, I saw my Dr. He put me on anti-depressants. It was amazing the difference it makes. If you go this route talk with your Dr. If you don't feel better within a week or feel irritable etc. Let the Dr know. It sometimes takes several tries on different formulas to find the one that works best for you. Whatever you do...Get Help. There is nothing wrong with bettering yourself. It is nothing to be ashamed about either. Keep us posted.

[liscamdave]

Oh dear, please David, please dont feel that way. I am so sorry to hear that. I can tell you this, I have been there my friend. I have been there many a time. Especially, when I lost my Husband, David. He was my life. And I loved him dearly. And he lost his life to his pills. I almost can't believe it to this day. But it is my reality. And a hard lesson learned for the aftermath of drugs. I am so sorry you are in the place you are. But please, if I can get through that, then this time in your life will also pass. God does not give us anything we can't handle. And maybe your depression is your body and your mind, pleading with you to stop. We are here for you my friend..........always....

Lisa

[david0263]

I went to a noon NA meeting today and shared my suicidal thoughts.  It did not make the depression go away but I'm not dwelling on death either.  I received help from other addicts and that is comforting.

A lot of you have mentioned God in your replies.  That is part of where my problem lies.  I am trying to work the third step and turn my will and my life over to God.  I can't do it.  I know that most everyone on this forum had a  troubled childhood in one form or another as did I.  I wrote about my stepfather putting broken glass in my bed so i would jump in and get cut.  Many years later I found out he also molested my sisters.  I blame God and myself for allowing this to happen.  How can God allow things like this to happen.  How could I not know this was going on.  I know, because I was so screwed up on drugs that I could barely function.  If God does not give us things that we can not handle then I sure wish he would help me find a way to handle this guilt I feel. This is what made me who I am today, a bitter, angry drug addict.

Lisa, you are a brave woman.  God dealt you something that would make the avaerage person fall apart.

David

[liscamdave]

Omg, you have given me chills. I cannot belive that monster did that to you and your sisters. I too, can comprehend your situation without getting too graphic. However, I know exactly what you mean. After I lost my mother to her DOC, I decided that God was no longer on my side and could not imagine how he could take a mother from her children, but to this day I cannot blame him for her, my father or my husbands deaths. I can only blame the poisons they put into their bodies. The very same poison I was putting into mine as well. In my eyes, god has nothing to do with it. He didn't put the drugs in our hands and he certainly can't take them out. Well, I am here if you want to talk, that is for sure....

Lisa

[IBKleen]

I have chills too. You just brought up some bad memories for me as well. I am so, so sorry that you had to endure that David. NO CHILD should have to endure that. NO CHILD!!

I know a lot of people who struggle with the concept of GOD, or of him at all. I know a lot of atheists in the rooms. Some of my dear friends do not believe. What they have done is to turn they will over to the rooms of NA. The point is that you turn it over. It is a GOD of your understanding. It can be the meeting---it can be a chair if you so choose. I know this is confusing and I wish I could help you. I just don't want this to be a stumbling block for you to move forward.

I am here as well, if you ever want to talk.

Please be good to yourself.

[marcatj]

buddy.. i am so, so sorry...

that is horrible.  what i will tell you is this: i do know you can get past this kind of hurt through therapy, through counceling.  it can truly help you work through this horrible pain and trsuma you have been through and then move on to a happy life...

have you tried this yet?  any kind of therapy/psychotherapy?  i promise you - i PROMISE you - a good therapist will change your life.  there is a way... and you can get past this trauma and grief...

it takes work.  hard work.  but the feelings and rewards from the process are indescribable.  it really can set you free..

that is too much to process on your own, and without a professional.  there is no shame in that - most i know who went through childhood traume, the only way they got past it was through this means...

please, please try it. if you haven't already.  and if you have, try again, with someone new.

i promise you it can heal you...  it healed me.

with luv,
mj

[Vikki57]

Dear David,
You posted what I had no guts to say!   And everyone that has responded to you is absolutely right.  What you are feeling right now will go away.  I dont mean it wont take a lot of courage, but just reading your post, sounds like you have a lot of courage or you wouldnt be here today.  Look at the steps you have already taken.  

Yesterday, I wouldnt go upstairs cause all that I wanted to do is get the razor and end my life.  I was lucky cause I have a therapist that talked me down and explained what was going on.
I am only starting day 6, but the people here are honest, beautiful and strong.  Post often, and remember that if you got thru (which you did) your awful childhood, then this can be done too.  Sounds like so much awful hurt you have buried.  
Time to start healing you.
Write if you want to.  
Nora

Been there and still here

[gigi1173]

Hi David, first off, I just want to tell you how brave I think you are for trying to stop these pills you are taking. It is going to be a long, hard road, but you are going to make it. When things don't go our way in life, I call them little speed bumps in the road. I know you don't think things look so good right now, but they will get better.... I promise. I suffer from anxiety/panic disorder... I can't say I know exactly what you are going through, but I did suffer for quite some time. It was to the point where I was almost afraid to leave the house. I was so scared to death & I really wanted to die. Then I found a REALLY good psychiatrist & I beleive that she saved my life... along with meds of course! These medications that they have these days for depression are unbeleivable & let me tell you,  I would almost bet that when you find one that is right for you, that you would feel wonderful! Please don't even consider this... life is a gift... it's too precious. Please get some help so you can start enjoying your life again. God bless you.

[addictedme]

The 3rd step doesnt say we turned our will over to a god of our understanding,,it says we made a decision to turn our will over to a god of our understanding. I prefer higher power because that creates so many more options like the power of the group." we develop this willingness over time",,"the willingness we experiance in our early recovery is valuable even though we may be willing only to a certain degree". I take that to mean that we all have our doubts in the beginning. I look at it like religion,,theres  hundreds or more different religions all believing in different gods of their understanding,,the commen denominater ? They all believe in SOMETHING." the decision we make in step 3 requires that we move away from our self will",,,so for instance I"m in early days of recovery and my will that day is to go to the er and get pills,,I go to a meeting 1st and share about it,,the groups will is that you dont go to the er and they share that with you and with that support you dont go to the er,,,that was your higher powers will ( the group). When I 1st went to na to get clean I felt that anyone with a day more then me clean was a higher power and I wanted to know how they did it.The forum is the same. People come in here and express cravings and helplessness and the people here reach out and guide them in the right direction using there own experiance,strength and hope.A higher power for now. Does this make sense? I hope I"m not just rambling but bottom line,,,believe in something and I think people like the ones here are a good start. gl to ya

[david0263]

I have to say that that was a great explanation of using the group as a higher power.  I have such a hard time understanding Gods will and my will.  I got up and decided to go to a meeting today (Gods will).  Tonight when I get off work I think I'll rob a store (my will).  God allowed me to do both of those things, one good and one bad.  I just don't understand the difference.  I've been told that i don't even have to worry about that.  I just need to get a higher power and believe that my higher power wants nothing but the best for me.  If I am truly working the will of my higher power then good things will start to happen.  This is a huge leap of faith for me and it will not come easy.

[BlotOutTheSun]

suicide isnt an answer to anything, all it will do is hurt family, friends, co-workers, etc. somehow someway you have to get this under control, if you were completey sober for at least 1 month do you think youd still feel this way, drugs alter the mind and make you think irrationally, just stick with it, alot of people battle their addictions for years before they succeed, one day youll look back upon it and wonder why you ever thought this way, good luck, stick with us, personally it isnt gods will or your will, a part of you wants to change your life and the DRUG'S WILL is whats making you think this way, it will get better, dont give totally give up on yourself, there is a part of you that wants to be normal again and eventually it will overcome the drugs, hope that made sense, please stick with us and think of all the reasons you have to live, not all the reasons you want to die, ive heard alot saying they have no reason to live, there is a reason you just havent found it yet keep trying

NEVER NEVER NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!!

[addictedme]

You have a good attitude,you shouldnt believe in anything blindly.  Have pataince,go slowly,and absorb everything and you said it,,my will in active addiction is the oppisite of ANY gods will lol. You have a higher power in this forum right now,,use it until when and if you choose another.Have faith in yourself,,faith is just trusting in something,,,it sounds like your ready to create a foundation for recovery. By the way,,na does not discourage professionel help nor do they look down on it.

[GoingToMakeIt]

God is not a puppeteer. He doesn't make us do anything. He gave us a free will, to decide what to do or not. He allows both good and bad to happen. As you give yourself over to him, he will guide your steps, but you can still make wrong turns. He does however make his will known to us. He gave us a conscience. He gave us a bible. He makes it clear that killing ourselves is not his will. He makes it clear to love your neighbor (Those you feel close to) AS yourself. (we are to love ourselves too). To do harm to yourself is wrong.

It really is simpler than you think. You already know what is right. It is inside you. Good Luck. Keep getting free. Seek help for the depression and hang in there.

[anotherfinemess1]

David, I have also felt the way you do right now.  Regarding your reluctance to render yourself helpless and powerless to some superior being-- I feel the same way.  The jury is still out as to whether or not I believe that "being" exists.  The good news is-  you do not HAVE to believe -.  There are other paths to recovery and spiritual contentment. So don't let this hinder you.  You are depressed because of the drugs-- you're in an altered state-- your neurotransmitters (seratonin, etc) are MIA.  Please talk to a counselor or, if you can, an addiction specialist.  This is all manageable, I promise.  What stopped me is not belief in some higher power that I doubted was real; it was the realization that, if I took myself out of this world, those left to grieve and suffer (my family, my little nieces) would be forever wounded and grief-stricken and hurt, and THAT would be very real.  Please keep talking to us, getting it out is cathartic, and know that you are not alone.

[CatGoddess]

suicide is a permanant solution to a temporary problem.. god put you here to helps others and live your life.. stay with us.. stay with us

[Savas]

Try not to obsess on step three. It's a bit hard to work on something that big when you feel like your life is down the tubes. I don't believe the steps are to be done in specific order and it can be years (with clean time) of getting through some of them.

Have you also been checked out by a doc? Serious depression can have a physically treatable source. I'm not suggesting going on med's, but knowing your depression is coming from an uncontrolled source is a great relief to some. It makes it less personal.

The only other thought I can add is try not to focus on the big issues. Just let yourself "be" for a while. Focus on the simple accomplishable tasks in life you can get some feeling of success from.
A trick to happiness is; happiness and contentment breeds happiness and contentment (ever noticed when you've got a new girl/guy it seems like everyone's hitting on you, yet when you just break up you can't get a date to save your life? :)  ).

If you can learn to take pleasure in just a few things throughout the day, and not let the negative drag you down, generally, things will slowly fall into place. It helps to take a long view picture in this. Think in terms of weeks or months, not days.

[addictedme]

Thats what I like about referring to a higher power. When you use god the next thing is "superior being" and then it goes to "does this being exist" and rendering yourself helpless rather then just needing help and then as another says it goes to a higher power BEING god and doubting if its even real. The group and the support in the forum is real so why doubt it. Again no one said that refering to a higher power is refering to a god except one.The na basic text says "the pain forces us to seek a power greater than ourselves that can relieve our obsession to use". Thats why people come to the forum.If you were sick would you go to a dr because his power to heal you is greater then your own and does that render  you helpless  or  mean he is god? no it just means that at that time hes a power greater then youself and your not helpless you just need help.Whenever we reach out for help to whoever were admitting that were stuck,we need help from someone who has the ability to help,,does that have to be god or a superior being,,I think it can just be someone with the experiance,strength and hope to help you to help yourself

[addictedme]

I think the post you should really pay attention is the one by savas although I do think the steps should be done in order as each step prepares you for the next but I think savas is saying to keep it simple right now and concentrate on yourself and getting clean regardless of higher powers,god or anything but you

[marcatj]

guys... he's not just battling addiction.  he faced some serious trauma in his childhood.  big stuff.  you just can't discount that part of the equation...

with luv,
mj

[david0263]

I made an appointment with my addiction counselor but can't see her until Monday.  I went to another NA meeting tonight and shared my depression and suicidal feelings.  Talking about it really helps.  A lot of the "old timers" really shared some good stuff with me.  I've been on Lexapro for years but it is not working anymore.  I also have a DR appointment on Monday and will ask about changing my meds and also fess up to my addictions.  It's hard to believe that at the age of 44 something that happened a long tome ago is having such a profound affect on me today.  I have been covering this up with drugs and now I am naked and exposed and I don't know what to do.  I am going to get help with this because I will never be able to stay clean if I don't.

[addictedme]

A dr,na meetings,a counsler,,sounds like your making good decisions on where to go from here.When ya think about it theres alot of things that happened way back that effect you now both good and bad. My dad recently passed away at 83 and I"ve been coming to grips with alot of things that happened over 40 yrs ago.Not nearly as traumatic as what you experianced but its how we let it effect us that counts.Do you continue jumping in that glass or do you say ,,enough and thats a hard thing to do so pro help can only be a good think dont ya think.Lets face it,we could probably all benifit from a pro to talk to,,your one of the ones that have the courage to do it,,,congrats to you,,your my higher power right now

[marcatj]

ah buddy... it can, and it does, effect many of us.  until we get the right help...

try to look at it this way: you are getting help at 44 for something that hurt you a long time ago.  well, many don't ever get help, and live their entire lives in misery.  you have the insight to know this is something that impacts you (no matter what age you are) and ALSO, have the courage to do something about it.

so i say, kudos to you... feel good about the fact you have the courage to face it..

and you will get better.  the only way past is through.. as cliche as it sounds. but it is true.

again, feel good buddy, about having the strength to face your demons.  that is HUGE.... really huge.

hang in there my friend.  and you have many new friends here who will always be around, whenever you need...

with luv,
mj

[NoMore444]

We have all been there my friend.  Please do not let your demons win.  You are loved and needed.  We all feel alone at times, but are truly never alone.  Here is a big HUG to you from me.  You are on my mind.

[Savas]

I know what you mean. I think that's one of the things that happens to us that are stopping around that age.

Usually you'd end up getting hit by all that at around 25 or 30, but the drugs help stave it off. By the time we hit 40 we get tired of running from ourselves. You stop the drugs and it all comes out.

Look at it this way, you've stopped running with the tide and you're turning around to face your demons. And it's terrifying and painful as hell.

But hey, that's alright. You were strong enough to stop and turn around, and that took enormous strength.

You're still standing and that tide hasn't knocked you over yet. Now you've got to push on through it. As long as you're still trying you're going in the right direction. You're feeling pain, and that's terrific because it means you're still alive. And as long as you're alive there's endless possibilities. Death is a finality, the ending of all possibilities.

So keep on trying to move against the tide.

but watch out for that undertow. :)

[anotherfinemess1]

wow, savas, you hit the nail on the head: death is the end of all possibilities.

[momwhosseenitall]

You are taking a big step and the most important one to recovery...TALKING ABOUT IT and letting people help you.  You dont realize it, but you are also helping others!! there are many in your groups that feel the exact same way and are afraid to say so. Please realize that your feelings will pass and get easier as you get healthier. focus on that fact..".I hate the way I feel now but I will not always feel this way because I am taking a step to recovery and getting my life back."  google info on 5-htp it is a natural antidepressant and get on good multivitamins.  Suicide is not the answer.  My son attempted suicide by hanging at age 15, he was 5 months clean, but did not have the life skills to deal with disappointment, anger, setbacks. He was only alone for 15 mins and he made a bad decision that would change his life and all those around him forever!   You have no idea how important you are to those around you, even those in your AA/NA groups. He lived, but has no brain cells left to control his body functions like talking and eating, etc.  I saw first hand how many people who were effected, good and bad, by his actions.  God is the only way we got through it!!!
As others stated, God gives us all free will to make decisions and you have lived with people who did not know God and were fighting their own demons.  God is standing by just waiting to come to your rescue, but you have to ask. Life is so much easier when you realize you dont have to face it alone, you can let someone else take control of it.  He never gives you more than you can handle and can take every bad situation and use it for good. He is already allowing you to help others by sharing what you have been thru. Every situation you have been thru has helped to make you a stronger person, learn from your experiences. Be aware of what works and what doesnt and try not to repeat mistakes.  There is lots of help out there, seek it. Your brain is the most powerful tool you have, avoid negative "self talk" and wake up everyday and tell yourself "I am an important person, worthy of having a wonderful life and today is going to be a great day"!!  keep saying this until you believe it and it will come true.  I pray God's help and comfort upon you.  You Can Do This, Hang in There!!

[momwhosseenitall]

I forgot to add to the above comment that you should be aware that if you have abused alcohol, marijuana, or other depressants, that your brain has adjusted to that "depressed" level and thinks it is normal. If I start to get depressed my body will realize it as abnormal and will send natural brain chemicals to bring me back up. You will have to go to a very low low before your brain realizes anything is wrong.  Your body cycles thru these highs and lows every 30 days!!!  Long after you are off of drugs, your body will still go thru this high and low cycle.  My point is this.....if you are aware of it, you can deal with it!  Know that when you are feeling really low that if you just get through that day that the next will be better.  Plan things to keep you up and happy on your 30 day anniversarys and be aware of your feelings. And for all the days...find things that make you feel good about yourself and make you laugh to replace the highs the drugs gave you.

[loriegurl]

Hi and welcome to the forum. I want to take a moment to point out that your post about going to a na meeting (gods will) and robbing a store after work(your will) is right on. what your step dad did to you and your sisters was HIS WILL and there was NOTHING that you could have done to prevent it. He was evil and he will pay for what he did. At the moment though, YOU are paying for what he did. Stop struggling with that and let it go. Why are you punishing yourself for the "punishment" you have endured all your life?? You are here for a purpose and I pray that you find that purpose and that you dont let the evil win.
I hope this makes sense to you and that you get the point I am trying to make. I know that you are hurt, angry and bogged down by this and you have a right to be!!! But DONT let it be your demise. You are better than that. You are already touching soooo many lives and people just in this forum. I can just  imagine what you have to offer the rest of the world. God can and will restore to you what satan has taken from you!!  You are in my thoughts and my prayers. Please keep your head up and find a good counselor to help you thru this time. That evil man has taken so much from your life and it is time for you to take back what is yours!!!!!

[marcatj]

you are one strong, and wonderful lady....

:)
mj

[markoclean]

Some one shared at a meating the other night . its beter to stay clean for at least a year so at least you know who  you are killing
you own your self that much .give it some thought

[david0263]

Thanks for all of the encouragement.  It has helped me see that being alive this morning is a blessing.  I am going to get help and will let you know how things are progressing.  Just for today I will not use drugs.

[gizzy32]

good morning, you have put a smile on my face just knowing you are ok now and thinking clearer. believe me i have felt the way you do, in fact i have prayed for death at the end of my drug use. things will get better and please continue to keep us posted on here. take care david

[anotherfinemess1]

david, I'm so glad you're feeling better.  Things will improve, you'll see.
momwhosseenitall-  you are a total inspiration, your contributions to this forum are priceless...

[1eagle]

got to give you a huge 'WELL DONE" troop - these aren't the easiest of issues that we all look at some side of...take that good advice from Savas and the whole group. And just trust me on this one - there is always a good reason to draw another breath...if you were ever exposed to things like people being blowed up around you, you would have a different attitude. But you got a good attitude that will see you through - glad that you are making the right decisions.

[Missinghim]

I came here today, looking for help for myself... and I am so glad to read through each of your posts here and find you looking up and forward by your last one. 4 months ago I buried my best friend, my love, my children's father. Haunted by demons from his childhood as the son of an alcoholic father, he took his own life over a stupid situation. Each day without him is worse than the day before, and there is no going back. Over 600 people came to his funeral-he would never believe that his loss would hurt and affect so many. Each night I rock his son, his best buddy to sleep. He is gone. A wonderful life over. He was not the addict. I am the one finding myself turning to my prescribed painkillers (I have RA) for an escape from a beautiful life turned nightmare. Because they help me not think about it for too long. I am so very glad and grateful that things are looking up for you.

[IBKleen]

Missinghim....I have chills.

You have come in on someone's else's post. That is not a bad thing, I just want to make sure everyone sees what you wrote. I would like to see you start a new post. Go to the top of this page and hit the Post A Question button. Follow that thru. Post exactly what you did here.

Hope to see you out there.

[Greatgreebo]

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.


You can't take it back.

[troubleinohio]

where is David today? has he posted today?? I hope he is ok