Taper suggestions/schedule

[taperme]

Hi
So, here is my story...I have been taking various opiates for several years now. Started with various aches/pains/back problems/HORRIBLE menstrual pain, etc. I was finally diagnosed with Fibromyalgia 2 years ago. At my highest point I was taking 2 80 oxys a day, and up to 10 norco for breakthrough pain. This was along with various other non-opiate medications. I don' t think I am an "addict" in the sense that I've never abused any of my meds. However I know I am definitely dependent physically on them. I got off the oxys about 2 months ago except for the VERY occasional 40mg when in sever pain. I am also down as of this week from 10 norco to 6 per day. I may have made that jump down too quickly because I've had headaches every day since I downed the dosage.
I am just tired of being on this crap and want off. Also...there is a non-narcotic medication that my hormone doctor would like to try me on. I need to be completely opiate free for 10-14 days before I can start it.
Does anyone have any suggestions for me? A good taper schedule? As of this week, I am taking 3 norco in the late morning, pushing it as long as I can and then 3 in the late afternoon. I can't take them too late in the evening or they screw up my sleeping. I'm at the point that I don't even feel a "high" from them anymore, so I am open to any suggestions as to a taper schedule. Also, I should point out that I have two young children I need to be available for so anything with the least side effects would be best...I'm sure everyone says that! Also...my husband has no idea the extent of the opiate medication I had or am taking. If I could get through this without having to have that discussion I would be very grateful.
Thank you so much for your help.

[taperme]

Thank you for all your insight. I am going to make a plan based on all your schedules today. Here's a new wrinkle....hubby and kids are taking a weekend trip without me to visit his parents. Would this be a good weekend to just go cold turkey? Or do you think that it would be so difficult that it would discourage me vs. taper? If I do decide to go cold turkey, what should I have on hand before the weekend (today).


Also...for the record...I have never SNORTED, CHOPPED, or knowingly spiked my doses. That's not me. I have never taken more of anything than my doctor allowed. Never refilled early, etc. According to him, I could safely take up to 3 norco at a time when in BAD pain. Now, I'm not saying I didn't like the high at the begining, but truly I haven't done any of the things you mentioned earlier. In fact when I was taking the full aresenal of meds my doc wanted me on, it made me VERY uncomfortable and I cut back on my own. I dropped 2 80 oxycontin pretty quickly after a very quick/short taper.

Gotta get kids ready for school....will be back later in the day to do a bit more research and make a plan for the weekend. And also to further explain this non-narcotic med.  Wanted to respond to you all since you obviously put a lot of thought into your posts and I appreciate it!
Thanks again for all the insight.

[Greatgreebo]

Are you there? Do any of our taper schedules sound like they might work for you? Talk to us and let us know how you are doing. If you use the taper schedule you should be able to get through this with out having major WD symptoms. You will feel a bit puny and probably some anxiety. Remember to keep moving. Get lots of excercise-it really helps with the anxiety and the leg aches etc. Be sure to get yourself some multi-vitamins, B vitamins, some GABA to take in the evening, zinc and LOTS of vitamin C. I like to use Emergen-C-the cranberry flavor. It mixes up into a nice fizzy drink which helps if your tummy is feeling icky. I totally understand you not wanting to have 'that' conversation with hubby. You should definitely find a therapist or counselor or someone you can trust so you do have someone to confide in. Like my post says above. You can taper down and you will not be incapacitated-you'll just feel a little icky-but it is totally doable. Remember to keep a POSITIVE attitude about the whole thing. Do not stress yourself out or psych yourself out-it's gonna be fine, you can do this, and you will be able to take care of your kids during this.
What non-narcotic is your doctor trying to put you on? I'm curious.
Stay strong,
Greebs

[worried878]

what is the Non-Narcotic pain med u r going to take?  Be sure u check into this drug before u take it..always good to know what u r putting in ur body

like greebs said..small doses spread out thru the day are easier to stop than large doses a few times a day...ie///a 100 mg user will do better if they took 2 pills 5 x a day than a user who took 5 pills twice a day//it is the bombardment on the brain by large doses which makes it tougher to stop..and as mentioned..a swallower will have an easier time than a chewer, snorter, shooter etc...it is the fast bombardment on the brain which causes it to build those extra receptor sites that crave to be fed when u take the outside endorphin source away
Tapering is not pain free...for sure...some can do it..some can not...\it is more of a long drawn out suffering vs CT...alot depends on the person and also on whether the user is mentally addicted or not....if someone has probs sticking to their taper and keeps upping their dose//it can be better to flush and get the whole thing over with///we r all different

why do u have to stop for a few weeks to start this non-narcotic medication?

[Greatgreebo]

You can chop on of your morning pills in half and break the afternoon one up too...this way you are getting small amounts every 2-3 hours. If you get up at 7 a.m and you go to bed at 10 p.m. you are up for 15 hours. You can take 1.5 pills when you get up (7 a.m.), three hours later take half a pill (10 am), three hours later take another half (1 pm), another three hours another half (4 pm), three hours later take another half (7 pm) and then at bedtime take 1.5 pills (10 pm)...the slightly larger dose will help get your through the night....anyway-doing it this way is way better than taking 3 pills at once. That causes a dose spike and makes WD's harder. I've got another taper schedule further down in this post. Pick the one that makes you most comfortable. Either way, keep at a dosing level for 3-4 days and then bump down....and so forth until you are ready to quit.

Having said that, it's time for some technical talk... One of the things which increases "dependence" is a spike in drug blood plasma levels. Addicts do this on purpose to get a "high". They do it by Snorting (Very fast delivery), IV Injections, Chewing up meds and taking on an empty stomach.

The above all produce the most amount of drug in the blood in an attempt to get a buzz. These spikes are one of the reasons we addicts get hooked faster than a COMPLIANT Chronic Pain Patient.

Being compliant means they take only as directed. The goal of compliance is to maintain an even blood plasma at the minimum amount to treat PAIN and NOT to produce euphoria (a high).

Since the blood plasma levels are lower, the levels of dopamine at the synaptic cleft do not spike so the receptor sites do not downregulate or decrease in number in response to the initially MUCH higher level of dopamine released as a result of spiking.

Addictive dosing behaviors, the large doses associated to Spike the blood plasma level, vs the lower low dosing and more often which is the KEY factor to the physical changes the brain makes which cause dependency.

Dependency is the actual physical changes to your body which cause withdrawal. Addiction is the BEHAVIOR of taking the drugs to get high, not as prescribed, and when not needed for clinical reasons. It is the un-manageable behaviors associated with lack of control.

Which comes first... Dependence or addiction? Usually it's addiction, but it can be the other way, but the key issue which causes the progression of addiction are the behaviors.

Addiction is what makes you take more and more, spiking doses, etc. This in turn increases dependence. The higher your dependence the higher the tollerance... Round and round you go. The addiction merry-go-round.

How to break the cycle? The only way is to change the behavior. That is a very difficult thing. Pain is usually a very good motivator. So is Euphoria. When the pain out weighs the euphoria one starts to consider breaking the cycle. Unfortunately the pain being eliminated by the drug is a driving force. Then the addict associated the RELIEF of th pain to the drug instead of the drug being the CAUSE of the pain.

SOoooooooo what to do? Break the cycle.

Many have to hit bottom to do that. That's the point where the pain of using overwhelms the relief of using. It's an emotional point which is different for different people. Not every one has to hit a bottom to quit. The sooner you quit the less pain and suffering you have to experience.

For folks who are on smaller doses and their disease has not progressed very far, they have not felt the extent of pain addiction can cause. Only conceptualizing how bad it can get may not be good enough to motivate a person early in addiction to quit.

Intellectually we know what lays ahead. We hear the truth from others, but yet we continue to use. It is not until we get a glimpse of the pain that lays ahead do we become to believe we need to quit. One HAS to believe that in fact addiction does lead to the loss of everything and eventually Jails Institutions and Death.

Addiction is a lot easier to nip in the bud physically but maybe not emotionally because one has not experienced the pain first hand. Some need more pain than others to quit. Some don't make it and end up end stage and their addiction wins.

If you want to get off of the pills you have to change your behavior.

1) STOP SNORTING your pills!
2) Stop spiking your dose!
3) stop taking enough to get high

You will never quit until you do that. Weather you can or not is up to you.

You have to come to a point where you make the decision you want to quit. The en you have to make a plan then you have to execute that plan. SIMPLE .... but not easy.

The solution from a clinical point of view for you at your point of addiction is so easy. A simple taper, and change the behavior. In short break the cycle.

How to do a taper is easy. Changing the behavior is the HARD part, but you have to want to change.

If you are taking 6 pills a day... then start taking them in even doses and don't take like 3-4 at a time. 24 hrs divided by 6 = 4 hrs. So only take one pill every 4 hrs. Then take 5 pills in 24 hrs. That's 4.8 hrs. Then 4 pills a day... break pills into 1/2's so you have 8 1/2 pills. and take 1/2 a pill every 3 hrs. Etc.

If you can't stick to a taper give the pills to a friend to dispense.

Mean while .. you have to start changing the way you think and the things you do... You should educate yourself... Good place to do all of that is NA or AA. It's FREE and takes up time. It forces you to be doing something other than sitting around with nothing to do and just thinking about using.

It's not the only way, but it's a good place to start. Take what you need from it, and leave the rest.

If you take the same amount or less every day and don't spike your dose you will eventually quit.

30 mg of Hydro can be tapered to 0 in 2-4 weeks painlessly. The PAWS will be minimal too.

The ball is in your court. We can not make you do anything. Only YOU can.

When you are ready is up to you. If you need to stay "out there" using and see for yourself how bad it will get that's up to you.

My recommendation.. Start to QUIT now! It will be a whole lot easier


Stay Strong,
Greebs

[avisg]

Band gave great info .Sometimes going slower helps too if you have alot of things you have to do and kids even dropping one pill every week or two whatever works for u and fits the best in with your life style.Welcome to the forum

[bmdad]

First off, welcome to the forum. You will get so much support and advice from all the wonderful people on here. I was taking two oxy 80's for back pain awhile back and switched back down to norco and then tapered off from there. Tapering really does help if you can stick to the taper schedule. Many do not have the willpower as it can be all too easy to take that one extra to feel better both mentally and physically. One thing I think I would is start by spreading the doses out instead of taking three at a time. Since you are taking 6 a day right now maybe try and take two each time three times a day. Well, not 6 a day, but drop it to 5 a day so you can start the taper. I would take 2 in the am, 1 in the afternoon, and 2 at night. After about 3 to 5 days I would then drop another. Maybe drop your morning dose to 1, then 1, then 2. After another 3 to 5 days go to 1, 1, and 1. I would then go 1 in the morning, 1/2 in the afternoon, and 1 in the evening. Then go 1/2, 1/2, and 1/2. After another 3 to 5 days go 1/2 in the morning and 1/2 in the evening. You could probably make the jump from there or even go 1/4 in the morning and 1/4 in the evening. You just kind of have to let your body do the talking. If you feel 3 to 5 days is to quick between drops, you can try a week in between drops. I would also check in to the amino acid protocol. You can find that in the health pages in the bottom right hand side of the page. It lists some vitamins and supplements to help your body get back on track. While on pills are bodies end up lacking nutrients and these will help. Also be sure to push the fluids, eat healthy, and exercise. Exercise works wonders.
If you want to get it over with faster, you can just go cold turkey. The worst of the withdrawals usually last about 5 days or so. The first time I went cold turkey I was Mr. Mom due to my back injury. I had to care for my two young children. Although it wasn't easy, I made it through. You can too if you put your mind to it. I'm sure your husband knows you are taking some opiate pain meds so it shouldn't be a surprise if he knows you aren't feeling well if you tell him you decided to stop taking them. Anyone will become physically dependent on them if taken for long enough.
Just stick around this forum and post as much as needed. It is a great place for support. It will also give you something to look back on to keep you from going down this road again.
I wish you the best of luck and if you need anything, please let me know!
Brian