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Tapering
I am not in near as bad a position as anyone here, especially as I'm dependent versus addicted. But I hate pain meds so I taper off whenever I can. I had to go back on last year when my blood pressure just wasn't being well controlled by two BP pills. They felt that no matter how much BP medicine I was taking, it wouldn't help because my pain was poorly controlled.
My pain is still not well controlled so I started tapering down. Learned my lesson from when I tried to CT and tried to taper too fast off too many meds.
My biggest symtpom is just the malaise and muscle aches. Now I don't really know if this is from my taper or from a fibromyalgia flare or both. I am dropping my dose again on Tuesday, though the doctor thought taking my long acting med at a lower dose 3 times a day rather than twice might be helpful. Also told me to play with the ibuprofen dosage and BT meds. I'm basically only going to drop 10 mgs and will hold there for two to three weeks.
What ***** about tapering is you are just in and out of mild to moderate withdrawals. I have no energy or motivation so the house is messy, laundry is backed up and all I can do is just look at it. I'm doing the bare minimum to keep everyone healthy and fed.
My kids are older and thankfully know what is going on so even though they don't actually help in the sense of doing more than they should they at least are taking care of their own laundry. I have my dad who is 86. He's a bit annoyed, especially because last month I wasn't here for 5 or 6 days because my son was in the hospital. But he needs to get over it. (I have a sister and brother but they don't do much for my dad.)
I don't really know how long this taper will last. Last week I was having terrible anxiety but posting on it helped. I have also switched to taking 5HTP. I had been using Valerian root but you have to take 5 pills and it smells bad. I did not know that 5HTP helps with blood pressure, so hopefully that will go down a bit.
I have told myself no matter how bad I feel I will go to the gym Tuesday and at least start some exercising. It's a big cycle of achey muscles and joints and not moving enough because it hurts to doing enough to try to build things back up. I had been in amazing shape. Best shape of my life really. But a really long fibro flare coupled with terrible menopausal symptoms nearly drove me batty. So it will be a steep hill to climb to get back to where i was.
Right now just staying in the day and trying to not worry about tomorrow's withdrawal.
My pain is still not well controlled so I started tapering down. Learned my lesson from when I tried to CT and tried to taper too fast off too many meds.
My biggest symtpom is just the malaise and muscle aches. Now I don't really know if this is from my taper or from a fibromyalgia flare or both. I am dropping my dose again on Tuesday, though the doctor thought taking my long acting med at a lower dose 3 times a day rather than twice might be helpful. Also told me to play with the ibuprofen dosage and BT meds. I'm basically only going to drop 10 mgs and will hold there for two to three weeks.
What ***** about tapering is you are just in and out of mild to moderate withdrawals. I have no energy or motivation so the house is messy, laundry is backed up and all I can do is just look at it. I'm doing the bare minimum to keep everyone healthy and fed.
My kids are older and thankfully know what is going on so even though they don't actually help in the sense of doing more than they should they at least are taking care of their own laundry. I have my dad who is 86. He's a bit annoyed, especially because last month I wasn't here for 5 or 6 days because my son was in the hospital. But he needs to get over it. (I have a sister and brother but they don't do much for my dad.)
I don't really know how long this taper will last. Last week I was having terrible anxiety but posting on it helped. I have also switched to taking 5HTP. I had been using Valerian root but you have to take 5 pills and it smells bad. I did not know that 5HTP helps with blood pressure, so hopefully that will go down a bit.
I have told myself no matter how bad I feel I will go to the gym Tuesday and at least start some exercising. It's a big cycle of achey muscles and joints and not moving enough because it hurts to doing enough to try to build things back up. I had been in amazing shape. Best shape of my life really. But a really long fibro flare coupled with terrible menopausal symptoms nearly drove me batty. So it will be a steep hill to climb to get back to where i was.
Right now just staying in the day and trying to not worry about tomorrow's withdrawal.
Thanks, Vicki!!! You are always so much help. We dropped 10 mg but I'll be taking 10 mg 3 times a day versus 20 in the am and 20 in the pm. He's hoping (and I am, too) that this may give better pain control while still reducing my dose (because you know how my head gets :) I'm hoping that between that and the 5HTP plus my 2 blood pressure meds the BP will come down. That's been my biggest struggle. My primary, who I love and trust and who knows my concerns, felt I was going nowhere getting my blood pressure under control and the only thing that was left was the pain was causing it to spike. If this is a good fit, I'll stick with it for about a month. (And it's hard for me to sometimes distinguish between the achey muscles of w/d versus the fibro. If it's the fibro, it should be relieved when I start increasing the exercise on Tuesday. I've been swimming but it's not really enough. But it's what's easiest on the joints.) (I've found the 5HTHP works much better on the anxiety than the Valerian root ... and it doesn't smell!)
You're not an addict as far as I'm concerned but I probably know you better.
I agree with the doctor but I'm wondering why you're dropping 10mg at a time. Was that your choice? Or is it that it can't be broken?
I agree with the doctor but I'm wondering why you're dropping 10mg at a time. Was that your choice? Or is it that it can't be broken?
I wish I could be somewhat addicted to exercise. Joking aside, though, what happened to your friend with the duragesic patch is terrible. There was a time that a certain brand was releasing too much of the medication and a lot of people OD'd because of that. I was on the Fentanyl patch and I really believe it caused all kinds of havoc with my body. It made me crave sugar, something I normally couldn't stand. It was not easy to come off that. I know they use it in pain management a lot but I honestly think it should be an end-of-life medication. It also caused me to have a terrible short-term memory. I always had a very sharp memory, never needed to write anything down; I just always remembered names, appointments, things that happened 20 years ago. I still struggle with my short-term memory and I don't know if it will ever be the same again.
A lot of people, myself included, put their entire trust in their doctor and sometimes these doctors are not making good decisions, for whatever reason, ignorance or money. I hate to think of doctors writing scripts indiscriminately for money but I know it happens. I think my surgeon just had a focus on surgeries and pain meds. When I got to a medical endpoint with him, he sent me to pain management. I don't think anyone in that pain management group intentionally gave me too much medication. I think that I had a difficult case, many surgeries going on, and I think my doctor was really trying to help my pain. She offered multiple modalities and I took advantage of any procedure or non-narcotic offered. But I think she lost sight of me the person and she was just treating the pain.
I'm sensitive to most medications so for me, the side effects cause me to want to take as little as possible. And I really ruined my stomach by taking (by prescription) too much ibuprofen without taking something to protect my stomach. As a result, I very often feel nauseous and narcotics tend to make that worse. I don't find anything pleasurable from them. There were times they made me sleepy when I first took them.
A lot of people, myself included, put their entire trust in their doctor and sometimes these doctors are not making good decisions, for whatever reason, ignorance or money. I hate to think of doctors writing scripts indiscriminately for money but I know it happens. I think my surgeon just had a focus on surgeries and pain meds. When I got to a medical endpoint with him, he sent me to pain management. I don't think anyone in that pain management group intentionally gave me too much medication. I think that I had a difficult case, many surgeries going on, and I think my doctor was really trying to help my pain. She offered multiple modalities and I took advantage of any procedure or non-narcotic offered. But I think she lost sight of me the person and she was just treating the pain.
I'm sensitive to most medications so for me, the side effects cause me to want to take as little as possible. And I really ruined my stomach by taking (by prescription) too much ibuprofen without taking something to protect my stomach. As a result, I very often feel nauseous and narcotics tend to make that worse. I don't find anything pleasurable from them. There were times they made me sleepy when I first took them.
Ok Mary. Point taken. Glad you are exploring options and doing what's best for you. Leanne :)
That's okay that you don't believe me. The only one that really has to believe me is me. I've been honest in all dealings with my doctors, family and here. And there was a time that I wasn't really sure if I was addicted or not. I spent a lot of time looking into that. There were people here who helped me explore it and it was something I also talked to with my surgeon and pain management doctor as well as my primary care doctor. I also saw a pain psychologist for a time and discussed the whole dependence vs addiction issue with him.
I'm not saying at all that it couldn't happen to me. I know it can happen to anyone. I certainly hope I never cross that line. I don't know that there is anything else I could put in place to be more vigilant.
And the fact is that right now I am tapering again and feeling physically just like anyone else that is tapering, not great. I post here for the same reasons as anyone else.
I'm not saying at all that it couldn't happen to me. I know it can happen to anyone. I certainly hope I never cross that line. I don't know that there is anything else I could put in place to be more vigilant.
And the fact is that right now I am tapering again and feeling physically just like anyone else that is tapering, not great. I post here for the same reasons as anyone else.
I definitely think there is a difference in being addicted and being an addict. My ex-girlfriends mother was addicted to vicodin but she never ran out and never took 10 pills at a time and all that. We would steal them from her but she never went crazy over the loss of them like an addict would. She later overdosed from being put on the duragesic patch. I think the doctors thought she was more addicted than she was and she died from it. Iv'e never been able to get a bottle of oxy that said take 2 a day and not take 10. I'm just not satisfied with 2. I want them all. I think knowing if your an addict or not is pretty easy to realize. Most likely your going to have other addicting properties ie: cigarettes, stealing, sex, food, exercise. Us addicts usually like to do most things in excess. It's up to the person to decide if there an addict or not.
Bright, you posted at the same time as me so I didn't see your comment. But I think that's my point: I have seen people slide into addiction without even knowing it was happening. I've seen it in my work and I've seen it with family members. I don't know if being hypervigilant about what you take, taking medication holidays to reassess your pain and trying whatever non-medication remedies that are available will prevent addiction.
All I know is that I have never run out of my medication, never taken anything that wasn't prescribed, never taken it more than I was supposed to, never asked for an early refill. Other than trying to make sure I don't do anything that will contribute to becoming addicted I'm not sure there's anything else I could do.
I have struggled with knowing what's best for me: being unable to live my life due to pain versus being on pain meds. I know people have talked about hyperalgesia and it's something I've asked my doctors about. They've said they don't really know why that happens and why it happens to some and not others. My goal is to manage my pain so I can at least minimally take care of my kids and my dad. My last medication holiday was interrupted by my blood pressure being out of control due to the pain. When it was put to me that I was running high enough to be concerned about stroke, I went back on. I'm trying other things to bring my BP down but not having a lot of success.
If I only had myself to care for, I would likely not use any meds. But I have kids to be there for and try to be active in their lives. I don't like taking any medications at all. I would prefer more natural things. I've never been someone who's used drugs or alcohol in my life. I don't think alcohol affects me like it does other people. I don't find it relaxing or fun. More than one drink makes me feel nauseous and it makes me feel ill and lazy the following day. I figure if other people felt like I did when drinking, they'd never drink again. I smoked pot twice when I was 19 and the first time was mildly unpleasant and the second time I had a bad experience.
I also think that due to my own experiences with family addiction that I never liked to think I would ever be out of control. I always felt like someone needed to be aware of what was going on.
My experience with medical situations is a combination of doing medical malpractice work for years and also working in a hospital for a time. But I don't think anyone's familiarity with medications either makes it more likely to become addicted or protects them from addiction. My feeling is that there are people way smarter than me that went down that path. I don't ever want to do that. The physical part alone, for me, is difficult enough.
All I know is that I have never run out of my medication, never taken anything that wasn't prescribed, never taken it more than I was supposed to, never asked for an early refill. Other than trying to make sure I don't do anything that will contribute to becoming addicted I'm not sure there's anything else I could do.
I have struggled with knowing what's best for me: being unable to live my life due to pain versus being on pain meds. I know people have talked about hyperalgesia and it's something I've asked my doctors about. They've said they don't really know why that happens and why it happens to some and not others. My goal is to manage my pain so I can at least minimally take care of my kids and my dad. My last medication holiday was interrupted by my blood pressure being out of control due to the pain. When it was put to me that I was running high enough to be concerned about stroke, I went back on. I'm trying other things to bring my BP down but not having a lot of success.
If I only had myself to care for, I would likely not use any meds. But I have kids to be there for and try to be active in their lives. I don't like taking any medications at all. I would prefer more natural things. I've never been someone who's used drugs or alcohol in my life. I don't think alcohol affects me like it does other people. I don't find it relaxing or fun. More than one drink makes me feel nauseous and it makes me feel ill and lazy the following day. I figure if other people felt like I did when drinking, they'd never drink again. I smoked pot twice when I was 19 and the first time was mildly unpleasant and the second time I had a bad experience.
I also think that due to my own experiences with family addiction that I never liked to think I would ever be out of control. I always felt like someone needed to be aware of what was going on.
My experience with medical situations is a combination of doing medical malpractice work for years and also working in a hospital for a time. But I don't think anyone's familiarity with medications either makes it more likely to become addicted or protects them from addiction. My feeling is that there are people way smarter than me that went down that path. I don't ever want to do that. The physical part alone, for me, is difficult enough.
ImDONENoMore, it doesn't matter if you don't believe me.
To the others, thank you for your input. Barb, the fact that you can go from dependent to addicted is ever present in my mind and one of the reasons I come here. My own life has been impacted by addiction. I also worked in superior court and saw so much heartache with addiction. So many people that started with legitimate pain and wound up losing everything.
Clean_in_ks, I feel like any time I can put some space between medications and my pain is a good thing. I figure if the pain isn't manageable or gets worse, I can always go back on something but I have a huge fear of someday needing something for a surgery or something and having a hard time because of developing a huge tolerance. I did not know about not taking 5HTP when taking other things. I always check with the pharmacist about any supplements that I want to add in. I've been taking a multi-vitamin and Fish Oil for years.
Vic, I am going to look into dietary things. I've heard some foods are bad when you have inflammation. Right now my diet is not great. I'm not eating right or enough. When my exercise is in the right place, my diet generally follows easily enough.
I've always taken less than I was prescribed. Even though I was given incorrect information by my surgeon about pain killers, it never made great sense to me. (His feeling was when you had "real pain" you don't become addicted.) When I went to my first pain clinic, I told them about my fear of addiction. She felt I wasn't at risk. I also have a friend who is a nurse practitioner in pain management and I always run things by her. She gave me a great book on addiction and pseudo addiction. She's been a good source when I've been offered medications or procedures that I don't know much about.
I hope by being honest with myself and with my kids and here that I can avoid ever going down the path to addiction. I'm not sure what I believe as far as becoming addicted, i.e., you have to have that gene or personality in order to become addicted or if you take something long enough, you will become addicted regardless.
I also think that whether you're addicted or dependent that the medications used change your personality. Now, maybe it's a combination of the pain and the meds but I am not the same as I was before I had the rsd. I dealt with fibro since 1999 without using any pain medications. I had tried some other medications but they didn't help so I found what worked for me by trial and error.
To the others, thank you for your input. Barb, the fact that you can go from dependent to addicted is ever present in my mind and one of the reasons I come here. My own life has been impacted by addiction. I also worked in superior court and saw so much heartache with addiction. So many people that started with legitimate pain and wound up losing everything.
Clean_in_ks, I feel like any time I can put some space between medications and my pain is a good thing. I figure if the pain isn't manageable or gets worse, I can always go back on something but I have a huge fear of someday needing something for a surgery or something and having a hard time because of developing a huge tolerance. I did not know about not taking 5HTP when taking other things. I always check with the pharmacist about any supplements that I want to add in. I've been taking a multi-vitamin and Fish Oil for years.
Vic, I am going to look into dietary things. I've heard some foods are bad when you have inflammation. Right now my diet is not great. I'm not eating right or enough. When my exercise is in the right place, my diet generally follows easily enough.
I've always taken less than I was prescribed. Even though I was given incorrect information by my surgeon about pain killers, it never made great sense to me. (His feeling was when you had "real pain" you don't become addicted.) When I went to my first pain clinic, I told them about my fear of addiction. She felt I wasn't at risk. I also have a friend who is a nurse practitioner in pain management and I always run things by her. She gave me a great book on addiction and pseudo addiction. She's been a good source when I've been offered medications or procedures that I don't know much about.
I hope by being honest with myself and with my kids and here that I can avoid ever going down the path to addiction. I'm not sure what I believe as far as becoming addicted, i.e., you have to have that gene or personality in order to become addicted or if you take something long enough, you will become addicted regardless.
I also think that whether you're addicted or dependent that the medications used change your personality. Now, maybe it's a combination of the pain and the meds but I am not the same as I was before I had the rsd. I dealt with fibro since 1999 without using any pain medications. I had tried some other medications but they didn't help so I found what worked for me by trial and error.
Mary, I have to admit, I'm kind of with ImDONE. And that's not to 'gang up' at all. You said so many people 'slide in' to their addiction without even knowing what's happening. Are you one of those people? Again, you sound like you have lots of experience with meds and have been on here for a while...but, we are all human.
You keep repeating how you are "dependent" vs. "addicted".. I don't believe you.
You got some Great Info and I did read not to long ago what clean_in_ks said. I would like to go another direction here. There is this book called "Living Lean" I could go all into it but my main purpose is to tell you he has you cut a lot of sodium out..Like if you look at all the cans. boxes, frozen food it is all processed and full of sodium. I did this for many reason. It has been proven that it can lower BP, help with Diabetics, Heart attaches, Mr Art, Fibro, and so many more health issues. It is some great info and I know from first hand how it change me for the best back when I was not so out of control with my meds. I also loss so much weight and it helps you have LOTS of Energy. The way we eat can be causing all of these signs besides just detoxing or having these illnesses.
I sure wish you the best and I always like it when you are on here.
Bless
I sure wish you the best and I always like it when you are on here.
Bless
Sounds like you are making progress....and have a plan in place.
Just having a new plan and beginning to carry it out can relieve stress and give us hope. We ALL gotta have hope!
I, too, have been checking out some new alternative ways to deal with my pain and current circumstances. I re-visited the use of Amino Acids again....and just started some new ones yesterday.
It makes sense that the 5HTP has relieved some of your anxiety...in our Health Pages here on MH, in the Amino Acid Protocol article, we are told that 5HTP is what trytophan gets turned into prior to being turned into seratonin in our brains. Seratonin is what is usually depleted if we are depressed or anxious. (both of those VERY present on this forum).
Just wanted to note for those that may not know....you cannot take 5HTP if you are on an SSRI or Tricylic antidepressant and cannot take SamE if you are taking 5HTP either.
You have a lot on your plate, Mary, but your new plan sounds full of "relief possibilites"~
Blessings to you,
Connie
Just having a new plan and beginning to carry it out can relieve stress and give us hope. We ALL gotta have hope!
I, too, have been checking out some new alternative ways to deal with my pain and current circumstances. I re-visited the use of Amino Acids again....and just started some new ones yesterday.
It makes sense that the 5HTP has relieved some of your anxiety...in our Health Pages here on MH, in the Amino Acid Protocol article, we are told that 5HTP is what trytophan gets turned into prior to being turned into seratonin in our brains. Seratonin is what is usually depleted if we are depressed or anxious. (both of those VERY present on this forum).
Just wanted to note for those that may not know....you cannot take 5HTP if you are on an SSRI or Tricylic antidepressant and cannot take SamE if you are taking 5HTP either.
You have a lot on your plate, Mary, but your new plan sounds full of "relief possibilites"~
Blessings to you,
Connie
That dependent versus addiction sure can change fast though. I took mine exactly as RX'd the first two years. Year three, I don't know what happened, but I crossed the line. Not saying you will, but I think it's nice you're here, and aware of what can happen.
What stinks is dependent or addicted only, they still do the same things to our bodies. It's so very smart of you to give your body breaks from them.
Does 5HTP help with relaxation? I use Valerian and yes, it does stink lol! Glad to hear you're anxiety is better.
What stinks is dependent or addicted only, they still do the same things to our bodies. It's so very smart of you to give your body breaks from them.
Does 5HTP help with relaxation? I use Valerian and yes, it does stink lol! Glad to hear you're anxiety is better.
I just wanted to add my support and tell you I think you are doing a great job. I know how hard this is when you are having several legitimate pain issues on top of the withdrawal symptoms. Stay strong and keep at it. It will be good to get a true assessment of your current pain level after you have distanced yourself from the pills for a little bit. Then you can see what needs to be done from there. Just know that we are all in your corner cheering you along. Sending hopes for strength and well being as well as a big hug your way! :)
Thanks. Sometimes I feel like this isn't the right place for me since I'm dependent versus addicted BUT this is where I got all the help when I was on such a horrendous taper (my own fault) before. And even though it seems as though I have no addictive tendencies, I've seen so many people slide into their addiction without even knowing it was happening. I feel like being here helps me in a lot of ways. And I feel like any time I can get off the meds is helpful. I don't want to keep building a tolerance or increasing meds. I am interested to see how less at 3 times a day works for me. It may be a good fit. If I can be stable there, I'll taper the BT meds.
I had terrible anxiety last week and posting about it and the suggested solutions really helped me tremendously. Not sure if it was the posting or the starting of 5HTHP or both but my anxiety is very nearly non-existent for the moment!
I had terrible anxiety last week and posting about it and the suggested solutions really helped me tremendously. Not sure if it was the posting or the starting of 5HTHP or both but my anxiety is very nearly non-existent for the moment!
Hi there Mary. That's all you can do is take it day by day, right? Great plan to get to the gym, when the time is right. Remember, take it slow and easy with the exercise. Taking care of your parent can be a challenge. Sounds you have a lot on your plate but are doing the right thing.
PS- I'm here and not in a bad position at all! I'm in a great place, actually. So are many of our MH friends :) I know you didn't mean it like that, but just wanted to throw it out there.
PS- I'm here and not in a bad position at all! I'm in a great place, actually. So are many of our MH friends :) I know you didn't mean it like that, but just wanted to throw it out there.
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