Tapering experiment...(Interesting) results

I have always chewed my pills....instead of swallowed.

well here is the deal...last night I took my last 7.5 mg pill at 9 pm...by 2 am..WD's were bad....I slept till 9 am..woke up in full WD's.

I am trying to taper down before my next surgery....

so I decided to start swallowing the meds...to my surprise....Hydro Half Life is 3.8 hours...

so 20 percent gets absorbed as hyrdromorphone..however lets ignore that.

I took a 10/325 hydro at 9:10 am...WDs stopped at 9:30, never felt buzz..but felt good and normal until 11:15 am..rapid onset of WD's...I fought it until 11:45 am..when I was driving I was getting blurry vision...based on Half Life of Hyrdo...at 11:45 am when I swallowed 2nd  10/325...there should be 6.5 mg of hydro in my system or so left.....within 20-30 min WDs were gone and I felt normal and calm again...at the peak of this time frame about 14 mg would be in my system at peak time..it is now 2:40 pm...nearly 3 hours from last dose..and I feel min WDs....I thought by now I would feel terrible...I am starting to notice them...but only slightly...based on Hydro Half life...since hydro breaks down at a constant rate....I should be around 8-9 mg left in my system..if 6 mg or so is the magic number of severe WD...then they should be on-setting shortly and nailing my by 3:15 pm..in which I will take another 10/325...so unlike this morning.....WD's have taken much longer to affect me...now I know..once I take the next dosage..it should last till somewhere between 6:00-6:30 pm..I will be very interested to see how the next dosage takes.

I always felt like if I took a larger first dose....then I could take less all day and get by....now it makes complete sense....and since I didn't chew the pills..the hydro is broken down slower...so while I may not get the ephouric effects...I Will get longer relief from the WD's.

[vicki595]

Very interesting...

Keep posting about this!

Vicki

[Frivolousz21]

It is 5:30..and I haven't taken another dose yet...the first signs of withdraw are starting...a bit earlier then before...but I have also eaten much more then before.

I was tempted to take a 5 mg pill now..then a 10 at 7...but I will wait until 6 pm and see where this takes me..

I can't believe its almost 6 pm and I have only taken 3 pills so far and have had a normal day...

[vicki595]

Well..this is great so far...and a normal day,too. Keep track of this.  Who knows,you may be on to something!!!


Vicki

[Frivolousz21]

I held out until 6:20..by then I was yawning with a lack of energy....again, the relief came about 30 min later..right now I have a bit of a headache but feel ok with everything else....I feel a bit down today....as expected...but I am very happy this was so seamless so far....I am going to take my last one around 9:30-10...then go to bed about 11 pm.

tomorrow I plan to do the same except wait 3:30 min in between doses no matter how bad I feel....

[leeisgettingclean]

yep---keep putting more time between doses!

[Frivolousz21]

I took my last 10 mg at 9 pm...if I WD to bad before bed..since I am staying up late tonight about 12-1..I will take a 5 mg..before bed so I can sleep.

5.5 then total or 5.0 total...not bad at all and I had a great day.

[Frivolousz21]

I woke up in bad WD's...slept 9 hours..

10 am
12: 45 pm
3:50 PM
7:20 pm doses so far...

not bad...as the day goes on they get longer.

I am taking a 7.5 mg instead of a 10 mg at 10:30 pm

so I will have taken 4.75 mg down from 5.5 yesterday...not bad....getting there..I hope to be at 4 mg by Wednesday..and 3 mg by Sunday

[Frivolousz21]

I ended up taking 5.25....I couldn't sleep and then the WD's kept me so restless...I took a 5 mg and in 20 min passed out....I woke up about 7 am soaked in bad WDs....then went back to sleep and felt terrible...I woke up again at 9 am..and took a 10 mg then...today I will wait till 12:15 no matter how crappy I feel...remember the 1st dose is the shortest because there is less hydro in my system..pretty much none....

by staying consistent with doses....overtime maybe a week or two...my body will adjust to this dose...once that takes place..I can lower the dose more...I hope its less then a week...I am going to try to push to 4 hours between doses and not suffer 2 hours of bad WDs.

[Frivolousz21]

Dosing day 3:

9 am: 10 mg
12:15 am: 10 mg
3:00 pm: 10 mg
6:00 pm: 7.5 mg
9 pm: 10 mg.

getting there.

[moonshyne777]

That's great, your doing well with your taper.

[Mike_B_]

I like your plan.  I too have always chewed my pills when I take them.  I take 4 10/500 per day.  I have been wanting to stop so I think I will try it like you are doing.  Let me know how it works out for you.

[Frivolousz21]

It has definitely helped.... I took a 7.5 mg at 9:15 am i am def WDing now....the mental toll is starting to weigh on me...that urge to get high is there...so I am going to take a 7.5 mg at 11:30.

then a 10 mg at 2:30.

I know around 2 pm...I am going to start feeling it hardcore...but I can do this..I have to do this.

[sweatinit]

I ahve been following your post as it is very interesting to me. Good job and thanks for sharing it. I know the mental part is really tough, but keep pushing through it. It does get easier...i promise :)

Keep us posted pn how you're doing. we are all wanting to see u suceed!!

[Frivolousz21]

thanks...

the hardest part is how slow the taper is..
but it does work.

[Mike_B_]

I woke this morning around 3:30 AM and could not go back to sleep.  My back was hurting really bad.  I got up and chewed me a pill and turned on the tv.  I laid there until it was time to get up and start to work.  I decided to work from home today.  I just now took my noon time pill and I did not chew it up.  I will let you know if it lasts longer than it normally does.

[Lawsonsdad]

I am trying this but its taking a long time. For the past year ive been taking 10/500 Watsons. I suffer from an inoperable back injury. I take anywhere fron 10 to 15 a day. Now im down to 6 to 8 so its working. Thanks!!!!

[sweatinit]

Good Luck with your taper Mike.

Friv~ I know about the slow tpaer. I had to do it as well and it can be torture...the mind that is.

[vicki595]

I know you're working hard at this...

As Lee said...try to get some more time between doses.  This works well, also, because right now you're hitting peaks and valleys.  But,if you can get 5 hours between doses around the clock you may not feel that w/d so severely.  You can also break those 7.5's in half...
In addition,you're having a hard time with the mental stuff.That will be around for a while;you need to work on that.  I'm not sure if taking 7.5 at 9:15 and 7.5 at 11:30 and 10 at 2:30 is the best thing to do.  Just my thoughts but your last post sounds like you're giving in to the mental cravings...

Vicki

[Frivolousz21]

Thanks to all...

yeah today I have def. been a struggle..but I figure I win if I don't use more then I planned..I know there will be very hard days.

I figure
7.5
7.5
10mg(230)
10 mg(600)
10 mg(930)


So I finish with 4.5 tens again....One thing I hate is sleepign with WD's...but I have a feeling....WDing at night..every night is good..and will help bring my tolerance down....you gotta thing...if I take a 10 mg at 930 pm....by 1230 pm I am WDing....that is 8-9 hours of starving my body of the drug..overtime..when I wake up....the morning dose should satisfy that need....I have noticed that I get more of a buzz with a 10 mg then I did 4 days ago....thats why I dropped to 7.5 mg today..it did work...just not as long..which makes sense given the Half Life of the drug.

[Mike_B_]

FYI, I did the 10/500 whole at 11:30 AM and then again at 6:00 PM yesterday.  I only took a half of one around 8:00 PM plus the early morning dose like always.  I made it through the night ok.  So I have cut my dose from 4 a day to 3 1/2 a day on the first day.  Wonder how many days I should do that before I cut it down to 3 without much trouble?

I tell you the last time I tried this I was taking Ultram at the same time and it was pure hell.  I cut out the Ultram about 2 years ago and now I guess it's time to start cutting down on these now.  I do have a lot of health problems and the pills help me to deal with the pain.  

Keep me in the loop on how your doing and if you want to send me a message that would be fine too.  Good luck to you.

[Frivolousz21]

THanks...

slow cuts are good...so we don't cut to fast then binge later.

my surgery date is March 25th, 2010.

I plan to be completely drug free on March 23rd.so I get 2 and half days clean....before I go in..this will hopefully shut my tolerance some.

ANYWAYS...yesterday I had the same dosage as before.

the most amazing thing is...this morning...I actually felt somewhat better..not good, not great..but not horrid...I got up at 9 am..and didn't dose till 10:10...I showered, played on the cpu, dropped my gf off at work, and then went and got a gas station soda...my energy was low and my chest was tight..but nothing else really..not that can't function feeling...I bet the overnight WD's are helping out a ton.

[Mike_B_]

You know it's tough when you have real pain and try to keep your dose as low as you can.  I have had surgery many times and now that I have gotten older it has affected me where I am in pain a lot and take the pills so I can function and do my work without complaining about the pain.  

I have gone 2 days taking 1/2 a pill less each day.  I know that does not sound like a lot but I think if I can do that again after 3 days I may be on to something.  I've added Advil to help with the pain and I take a lot of vitamins so that helps.  Keep posting so I will know how your doing.

[Frivolousz21]

I didn't take a 2nd pill until 2 pm today....that was 4 hours apart...wow that hour was rough....after the breakthrough WD period....I felt ok.. no yawning..just a little hazy and out of it.

now I feel normal again....I am going to push for 6 pm for the next pill..then 10 pm and see if I can make it on 4 pills...would be quite a feet for me.

good luck buddy..the pain does get pretty sharp when I am not on the pills...however the WD's for me at least overshadow that quite a bit.

[Mike_B_]

I take mine just opposite from you.  When I get up in the morning I am usually hurting so I take one and lay back down until it starts working normally around 6 AM.  I then take one around 12 and then I was taking another one at 3 and 6.  After going a couple of day of missing the one at 3 and taking a half at 8.  I am going to try to skip the half tonight, and see if I can get through the day with just 3.  It's hard to believe a pill can make it where you have pain or function without the pain.  But, like everyone on here you just get tired of taking these darn things.  Making sure you don't run out early because you know you will have to call the doc and ask him to ok an early refill.  I try not to do that but I have.  I had 4 kidney stones from late Dec until I passed the last one last Feb,  I had to take a few extra during that time,  I used to take the 7.5 but they got to where they just where not working anymore and my dr did not want me taking to much Tylenol so I switched to the 10/500.  I am trying to do some natural things to help with the pain and I am having a little luck with that so I want to see if I can cut back or even stop if I can.  Good luck to you.

[Frivolousz21]

How are you doing?

Yesterday I took 4.5 mg again.

once again I took my last one at 9:30 pm and was WDing pretty hard by 12:30...and all night....i felt pretty good this morning when I got up at 9..and I waited until 10:15 to take a pill....the all night WDing every night is surely helping...wether your a sleep or working...the body WDing is Wding.....so that is a great help to get a good 10 hours of it a day.....I am sure that will help lower my tolerance and day time WDs.

[Mike_B_]

I'm still at the 3 1/2

10mg at 6AM
10mg @ 12PM
I have been skipping the one I used to take around 3 PM
10mg @ 6 PM
5mg or 1/2 pill at 8PM

I have done this for 3 days now.  I may try to skip the 1/2 at 8 the next few days.  I have read on here where some people start taking 1/2 pill four times a day.  And then 1/4 pill 4 times a day.  If I could get down to that mark I wonder how hard it would be to just stop?  or would you need to try 1/4 3 times a day and so forth?

The thing that bothers me the most (not counting the pain) is not being able to sleep too good.  I don't sleep well now because my back hurts.  My wife says sometimes I moan at night and she knows my back is hurting because I tried to do more than I should have, stood up for too long or washed my car.  It's things like that that make it where I really have a hard time controlling the pain even with the pills.  I've been taking 4 a day for so long now that I feel pretty good about just going down 1/2 a day and not having any problem doing that?  We have a wedding to go to tonight and my daughter is singing so I can't miss it.  I'm hoping that sitting for a long time on a hard pew won't convince me to take the other half today.  It would be nice to not have to go to the drug store on the day my refill is due, and to go maybe a day late.  Let me know how you are doing over the weekend.

[Frivolousz21]

1:30...still holding out...getting easier day by day!!!!!!!!!

[MarilynH52]

Hi Mike and Frivilous
so glad to read your posts I'm going through exact same thing.
Have been at 5mg 6 x per day, so every three hours

Today trying to 5 mg 4 x per day..

Yukk I feel sickly and the pain is burning...but I think we can do this..

Hang in there
Stretching the doses farther apart is a challenge...

[MarilynH52]

PS I have been on them for pain since 2001.  I used to be on Oxycontin and oxycodone 130 mg combined.  In 2008 I reduced to 80 mg of Oxycodone...then stayed at that til February of this year when I did a reduction to 30 mg of oxycodone

I fed up with  these pills..I want them done..but don't want to be terribly sick from stopping too fast.  So I'm tapering again...and hope to be finished in about two weeks.

[MarilynH52]

Hi Mike,
I think it will be too difficult for you not to take your .5 at 8pm.

It would likely be easier to remove a .5 from one of your other doses tomorrow....and then don't taper again for a few days..

Just my thoughts from my experience.

[Frivolousz21]

Hi there Marilyn.

I think streching then dropping dosage is the best way to go.

Today I made it to 2:15 before I took a dose..

I still don't feel WD at 4:30 pm.

but it will come soon...

so if I take one at 5:30 pm..then take one at 9 pm....then I am down to 4.0 if I can not take a 5 mg before bed.

that will be hard.

from 1;45 to 2:15 that was so hard....but 5 days ago....I could barely make it 3 hours before I felt terrible...now I made it a bit over 4.

good this weekend to all.

a Friend of mine who has endimetrosis..misspelled..gets 60, 5 mg vicodin every month....her doctor used to give her 120 a month..she told him she didn't need all of them....so she got less.

she tried to get her script filled after 3 weeks...and the nurse there wouldn't do it...while the doctor was out of town..and told her to take Tylenol and it would help with the pain...and the vicodin is over-rated.

well 60 pills in 3 weeks is 3 per day..that is 15 mg a day.

So I gave her a few of mine that I saved from the taper....it is really concerning that people work with meds who are that uninformed.

On either side of it

[MarilynH52]

thank you Frivolous..you are doing great, making it to 2:15.  Every minute counts I think...when you are stretching out :-)  
I have stretched the 3 hours I used to do to 4 hours today, but it is really hard isn't it?  I'm so glad to hear it is getting easier for you to stretch day by day....

I took .5 at 8:30
          .5 at 11:15
           .5 at 3:15
           .5 at 7:15
I am having a really hard time, and don't think I will make it without another .5 about 11 pm.
I am hoping tomorrow will be easier....

[happynessbythekilowatt]

Hmm this is interesting but pills do build up in your system the more you take, that may be why the WD's aren't as harsh after the 2nd pill in the day. I wish I could just take one or 2 in a day but it doesn't work like that for me so my only option is cold turkey. Once I take 1 it just makes me want to eat 5 more and I obsess over it. We are all different though.

So keep up the good work and keep cutting down doses.

[Frivolousz21]

How has everyone done so far last night and today?

Last night I was up late and caved..I took a 7.5 mg vic at 12:30 am...my last pill before that was 8:30 pm..I tried to sleep at 11 pm..but the kids stayed up..by 12:15..I was WDing to bad to sleep..I tried so hard..but I had to get up with the kids...so sleep was important.

so after taking that pill...I got very warm and relaxed..and my sharp pains from the infected cyst..subsided.

I got up at 8:30 am...and felt decent...weird since I had bad WDs at 6:30 am.....I felt them at 10 am..by 11 am I was feeling terrible...I held out until 11:30 am...I can't believe I went 3 hours without it....wow...it was so hard to resist..now I feel relief...I will wait until 3:30, then 7, then 10:30 and only take 4 today....

I can;'t believe I am down to 4 pills.

[MarilynH52]

Hi there
4 today for you..GREAT

I feel like crap today...
I did take 5 mg about 11 pm
then 5 mg at 9:30 am (when I woke up)
then 5 mg at 12:15
trying to go to 4:15 for the next 5...

Sometimes I think it would be easier to just stop and be sick for 5 days...I just don't know..So I would be way more sick for a shorter time..I guess this way my brain is adjusting too...but I feel like I'm in partial withdrawal all the time...
Currently I can't be sick for 5 days have too much to do..Or am I at a low enough dose now,that I won't be sick for 5 days...the trouble is I've been on it for 8 years....

[Mike_B_]

How did you make it through the weekend?  I'm still at 3 1/2.  I should try just 3 today.  I'm going off tonight so I am not sure I can do it but I'm going to give it a try.

[Mike_B_]

I didn't hear back from you.  Are you still cutting back?

[AJRC323]

I don't know how you guys are doing this, I've been taking 10mg a day for almost a week, after about 10 days on 20mg and a decent taper from higher doses, and I still feel like ****. What's really confused me is how I start to have withdrawal about 2 hours after taking a 10mg pill, when I was on higher doses I could stretch the time out for 5-6 hours if I had to, and that was after just the first dose.

Sorry for the rant. It sounds like you guys are doing great, keep it up =)

[Frivolousz21]

How is everyone doing?

I am still on track..

Yesterday I had a really bad day with pain...my cyst swelled up....so I took an extra 10 mg in the evening and got really sick...seems my tolerance has dropped...I got so tired I could barely stay awake..geez!

today I plan on taking 5 doses of 7.5 mg!!!

how about everyone else?

[Mike_B_]

It's good to hear your still on track.  I tried cut back to only 3 yesterday.  I took my last one of the day around 6 PM and woke up at 1:30 AM with my back hurting.  So I got up and took a half of one.  

I am going to try to not take more than the 3 1/2 again today and then try 3 again tomorrow.

It's hard to believe that just cutting down that little made a difference.  I thought I was doing fine.  I had 6 hrs between doses but I knew I was not going to be able to go back to sleep after I woke up at 1:30.

[Frivolousz21]

I know how you feel..i woke up at 5 am last night in a ton of pain and couldn't get back to sleep..I took a 7.5 mg pill and fell into that lala land and was out like a rock till the alarm rudely woke me up :)

today I took a 10 mg at 9;20 am..and I am starting to Yawn a lot.so the WD are coming..I am going to wait until 2:30 if I can....that would be 5 hours...I can't believe I might make it 5 hours.

[Mike_B_]

I went 6 hrs between doses yesterday, skipping the early afternoon dose I normally take and then had the problem in the middle of the night.  But I guess on a positive note I only took 3 and a half again yesterday.  And if I look at it like that over a week that is 3 1/2 less pills I took for a week or 15 in a month.  I read on here somewhere that one guy tapered down over a week at a time.  Cutting down a half each week and then when he got to 3 he cut them in half and took 4 half's a day for another week, then 3 half's for a week and so forth until he just stopped.  What I liked about what he said was when he was past the 3 half's down to 2 half's a day he would almost forget to take it and the withdrawals were not too bad after that.

I might try to just take a half of one this afternoon and then a half before I go to bed and see if I can make it through the night.

To AJRC323 : have you tried breaking them in half?

[Lawsonsdad]

It almost four oclock and i havent had one today not untill bedtime. This is the second day like this (sunflower seeds).

[Lawsonsdad]

I feel bad my whole body aches. My bones hurt but im two days clean cant remember ever feeling this bad but so far im strong enough.

[feelinghopeless18]

Any suggestions on the mental part of the taper method? My husband has done ok with the physical w/d. Other than the mental part sneaking in and making him think that he is in more pain than he can handle.