The Disease Of Addicition

[Danielincc]

I have studied the effects of the disease of drug addiction. I give treatment and have received treatment for this deadly disease. I am eight years clean from having to worry where my next dose will come from. I have gone through all the miseries people write about on this forum. What puzzles me Doctor and readers, is why with all the help out there. Why do people refuse to get the help they need to put this horrible disease in check?
Why do people continue to do everything but correct thing! I see people on this forum joke and glorify their addicition. Is it simply because people or participants do not understand the seriousness and deadliness of this disease? Please respond doctor/readers.
My Best To All..                                        Danielincc

[IrishRose]

Okay Danielinnc,
     I have read your posts several times and until now have kept silent as others have done so well in addressing your "concerns" with folks on this forum. First of all, if you are an addiction specialist as you claim to be, what's the deal? Slow day at work? You don't have enough to do there without trolling the net to save more of us? If you do indeed read this forum as you claim to you will notice that no one is refusing help. Many, myself included have been through treatment programs and participate in 12 step programs. Sometimes the road to being clean is not always a straight and narrow one and yeah not all of us are meant to make it even. But no one appreciates having their thinking corrected as you are attempting to do. Didn't your mamma ever tell you honey draws more flies than vinegar? If people's descriptions of their use offends you, skip their posts, don't try to make them" see the light". Jeezus, don't you think someone hasn't already tried to do that? Most of the people on this forum have a great deal of insight into their problems and struggles with addiction. I have been clean a few years now myself and haven't been one of those blessed folks I listen to in meetings who claim to have had all desire to use removed from them. I still miss it like you'd miss an old lover but I do stay clean and attempt to work a program. Seems I recall hearing in one of those rooms, "progress not perfection". We're addicts, for chissakes. What do you expect us to talk about? If you read this forum as you claim, then you would have noted some lively discussions about dogs, tupperware, music, books, family and many of the other good things in life. We are not one dimentional dope fiends.  All are welcome on this forum Danielincc and I don't mean to alienate you but this forum has saved my heinie and the sanity of someone I love, whose posts no doubt are among those that offend you. But please don't judge, label us and condemn us or try to save us.

[SHOTSY]

Thanks for responding to my earlier question. My insight is probaly limited being as I haven't had to deal with the problems some people have had.I think one thing that isn't dealt with in the medical field is genetic predisposition to this problem of addiction. One day we may have the technology to run a scan (like in Star Trek) and be able to assess a person as a whole. That to me is the biggest down fall in medicine today. Is the lack of interaction amongst dr.s in the well-being of a patients TOTAL well being. How many times have you been sent to a "specialist" only to find your p.c. hasn't heard anything, doesn't know anything.Plus you have a lot of dr.s that forgot the Hippocratic oath. They're in it for the money, the nice, car, the nice home...Which don't get me wrong, I believe that is their right, IF they are good dr.s. Nowadays it's seems you have to scratch and fight to get good health care.And you have to know alot about medicine and things just to protect yourself. And the pharmaceutical companies today don't always seem to have our best interest at heart. Just watch t.v. and all the class action law suits going on today. The makers of Baycol, so they'll have to pay out a few million for the 30 people they killed. How many millions of dollars did that company make? I believe they need to go back to doing more long-term studies on these drugs. Before they are put into the mouths of people to make a profit.I'm all for trying to help people but jee wiz, could you imagine someone  you love dying that way. But I do see this forum as a type of therapy. And sometimes 45 min. twice a month at a mental health facility isn't cuttin' it.Here you get empathy and sympathy that some of of us aren't getting in our everyday life. I feel this forum serves a function and purpose for all.Now here is another little saying that puts my life into perspective-"If you know all the answers, you probaly misunderstood the question."                                                      Sincerely, Shotsy

[Danielincc]

I am simply saying treat this disease as you would any other killer disease. I see nothing wrong with sharing your ups and downs on this forum. It's good to share these feelings with supportive people. But for the sake of goodness don't tempt fate by continuing to abuse the substances that will eventually kill you. If a person is suffering from chronic pain, at least try and treat the pain by not abusing the very substance that stops the pain. Abusing these substnces defeats the purpose of pain control. I have lost close friends to drug abuse. And I will not SUGAR COAT my thoughts on this matter. I have a right to speak my mind here just as everyone else. I am only hoping to help someone "see the light" that takes this killer disease lightly.
Sincere Best Wishes,
Danielincc

[kstuebin]

What exactly is this killer disease we're talking about here?  I read this forum daily and hear from lots of people taking meds for pain. And struggling to lead normal lives. What are they supposed to do?  Lay in bed and suffer?  Exactly how does a narcotic kill you, short of an overdoese?  I will admit the tylenol might be hard on the liver but there are probably formulations without it.  I don't know.  I don't use pain meds, except rarely for pain.  I take benzos for anxiety and insomnia. And I like them. They work. I can act like a normal person. So guess I'm an addict and am in the process of killing myself. In my younger years, I abused drugs (it was the 60's) and alcohol and went to AA which was a creepy experience to be quite honest. Program was okay, if anyone can ever get thru all 12 steps, but the people were like aliens. I had one woman I had seen one time in my life at a meeting come up to me in a crowded gym and start going on and on about "how you know we do this," and "we always do that." Can you say anonymity? I felt like I was in a cult. I only talked to program people about the program all the time when I wasn't reading the Big Book. I actually got worse, not drugwise - I was clean, but psychologically. There was a real emotional investment in "how bad I was," and "how much my life has improved in all these healty acceptable ways." I mean come on people, lighten up. JMHO. "But I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now." Incidentally, my father was an alcoholic who died at 86. Of lung cancer.  Different killer addiction, I guess. I'm a risk junkie myself. There's a real killer addiction for you.  Been thinking of joining the army and volunteering for Afghan.

[SHOTSY]

It seems to me you have suffered a great truama with this problem. And I respectfully understand your postion. I believe all the people here in some form or fashion are dealing with their problems. You just have to read between the lines.                                                 Respectfully,Shotsy

[Thomas]

most of us who contribute our opinion to the issue of using first share our own story of addiction with the forum -- no sugarcoating, either. If you want credibility here, start by giving us your "credentials," and I don't mean your license to work as an addiction councellor. So, you understand us, know where we've been and where we're at? --Then prove it. Let's hear your story and please make it the R-rated version.

Thomas

[skipper]

danny:
i think irishrose posed a good question which you have failed to
answer, "slow day at the treatment center." i do not speak for anyone else on this forum. i do have the right to speak for myself (or is that just reserved for "addiction specialist?")

you will have to pardon some of us for not swooning at your feet
and begging for you to "correct" our thinking. When I first got
clean back in 1978, people with caustic attitudes and little re-
guard for others feelings were delt with in a more direct and physical manner at the AA meetings I attended. see danny-boy, i had the privildge of being exsposed to some real honest to goodness founding fathers of AA. i will never really know for sure, but i bet a few of them would have straightened your pompious attitude and blatant disreguard of other people's feelings.

danny-boy do you really think your the only one that has lost
friends to this disease of addiction? Do you believe that all the
rest of us folks are too stupid to realise what deadly malady this illness is?

danny boy, i could go on and on about how i "feel" about you. my
feelings are quite insignifcat. what i will do for you though, is
pray for you!! i will ask god as understand him, to bring you a
little loving acceptance of other people with the disease of ad-
diction. maybe you won't be such a lonely and angry person. to
sum it all up danny-boy, i'm going to love and care about you no
matter what, and you won't be able to do one damm thing about!

kip

[cindi]

I am going to have to agree with every person that has responed to you,,,you have never once came to this forum and offered encouragement and support to those still suffering...all you have done is display your anger towards those people that are suffering from addiction,,,Perhaps you are frustrated. but,,,you can't save the world,,,how do you know these people here are not trying to get help or are in treatment..I don't know of anyone that glorifies durg use here..sure ,,,people do admit they like the way the drugs made them feel,,,why the hell would we have started using in the first place.  then there are those of us that were in treatment that have been "clean" but..have to take narcotics of various kinds for various reasons....long term and then we become "involuntarily" dependant on the drugs...which long term pain management with narcotics will do,,,,to anyone whether they are an addict or not.....noone here should be judged...so many people that come here do so asking for help,,,so why do you feel that they are not doing what they need to do?  so many other people that are in recovery or are trying to get there ask for alternative pain meds instead of the narcs...so they are damned if they do and damned if they don"t  when you were in treatment did your counselors work with you on your control issues?   we don't need people telling us what to do   most of us know what do to,,,,what we need is support, encouragement, perhaps guidance for those seeking help...not coming in here blasting people because you don't think they want help......they wouldn't be here if they didn't want help    unless they are here offering what you should be offering    I was loved back to life 12 years ago,,,are you capable of doing that? support, encouragement and loving ?  we here on this forum are capable of doing that....along with sharing our experience, strength and hope and I will be along side of kip when he cares about you and loves you  and there is nothing you can do about it......love to all               cin

[jule1]

Where do I start with you.  Hey you asked for it.  I was at my wits end when I came to this forum.  I had called 2 hospital programs for addiction called one addiction specialist.  Then I got real desperate called NA was given two numbers one out of service the other with no one there who spoke english what was my problem?  Ultram addiction!!!  All of those I called had never heard of Ultram or told me they were unable to help me. I also called and left a message for a specialist who never even bothered to call back.  I made it to this forum and found many others who had been through the same thing and had great ideas to help me quit.  So guess what the professionals don't always have what it takes.  

I totally agree with Thomas that you should share your story.  I truly don't understand what brings you here and what makes you constantly criticize us.  There is no one formula that works for all addicts and if this forum has helped even one person then it has served its purpose however I know it has helped many.  Why don't you read down to Beths post and look at her picture I have so much more to say to you but my sone is crawling on me wanting Thomas the tank engine on the computer.

[katie r]

My first question to you is.....how long did you struggle with your addiction before you got help? You seem to think that we should drop what we're doing and rush to a NA meeting. As far as the joking goes....I'd advise you to skip over the posts if you don't like what you read. I know I'm addicted to opiates and there are some days I come here looking for someone to make me laugh. Durings my  darkest days, I came here in tears and leave with a smile on my face.There are tons of people in the USA   that are overweight. Everyone knows that diet and exercise are the proper way to lose weight.....and yet.....obesity is still a problem. My point here is.....you think you have all the answers...but I don't hear anyone asking you any questions. Are you sure this is the right forum for you? You don't seem too popular here.

[Witchywoman]

Daniel, you truly puzzle me.
I don't know that I believe that you actually have a degree or training in Therapy of any sort. If you did, you'd know the first tenet...that judgement, and assumptions, do not a therapeutic relationship make.

How dare you assume that the people here are not willing to do what it takes to treat their addiction? How dare you believe that you know the only way?

I'm really tired of trying to be respectful of you. You constantly go out of your way to belittle folks here. These folks saved me from the pits of despair. I'm coming up on 2 months clean because of the wonderful people here, who did not judge me or tell me what I had to do. They just simply cared about me.
Yeah yeah, I'm also in therapy, and I"m a therapist myself. Go ahead and do your best to discredit me like you tried to before.

But please, stop taking our inventories for us, and work your own program.

WW

[Milo]

Tell us your story. You'll never find a kinder, more understanding and supportive group of folks than right here on this forum. Tell it all -- the addoction, the anger, the rage -- if you're honest, we can handle it. I think you'll be surprised by the reactions you get. - Li'l Milo

[Witchywoman]

Hey Kristen... are you still reading the forum?
I've just been wondering how you are doing, and missing your words, and hoping that you are ok.

Just thought I'd check in.

love,
WW

[cindi]

How about someday my joy will come   my vicodin and Val-i um

[skipper]

dannyboy (or is it dock-boy danny):

well cogratulations, you sure "pulled one over on a few of us at
the forum! before you get your toes too curled up, i'ld just like
to add, that many people have got one over on old kip here. to be
pefectly honest many people will in the future will get one over on old kip! this is the consequences one must pay for honesty. when i speak of honesty please don't confuse it with cash register honesty, or never lied to a cop, MD, or parole officer honesty. i'm talking about the kind of honesty that allows me to bare the "dirty little secrets" that kept me stoned for days, weeks, years.... I'm talking about the kind of honesty that allows me to (at least at this forum) show you things in or about old kip here that he never could before with out fear of others judgement.

i can tell you dannyboy, that i love and care about you, and there isn't a damm thing you can do about it. how does that make you feel to hear that danny boy? does it make you fear something? the first time i was told that it scared the **** out of me. why? because i wasn't able to return that kind of concern to another human being, let  alone a fellow addict. i didn't feel worthy of
anyone's respect or love. i mistrusted anyone who didn't treat me
like the piece of dirt **** i knew i was.

well dannyboy things have changed, at least for old kip here! see
i've been able to clean up my hand enough to see that it all be-
gins with learning how to love yourself---everthing about your-
self. yeah, all the good and bad **** about yourself. see until
you can do that, you won't have any repect, not from yourself or
anyone else.

How 'bout it dan? can you show us folks here at this forum some-
thing real about dan? can you show us something of yourself that you have never shown another human being? can you? well you know the answer to that, not me. if you can't do this dan, you truly
deserve my pity, because you sure don't deserve my respect!!!

there is an angel that would love to be on your shoulder!
kip

[cindi]

Well said my friend     hey BTW  I enjoyed the phone conversation with you and yours  you guys are way cool and great people  love you both           cin

[katie r]

You guys hijacked Dopey Dan's thread!!! With any luck...he'll get mad enough to stay the hell away from here. I'm gonna double hijack it....we bar-b-qued tonight......ummmmmm.....I washed my car today......
Oh well.....I tried.
Man, he's a jackass. I think I may have dated him at one time....during my drinking days, when I didn't know **** from wild honey.
On a serious note...Thomas? You haven't answered my emails....have I offended you? I hope not! Still buddies?
Cindi!!!! You crack me up! Smack me on the ass and call me Sally! I love it! I'm gonna use that next chance I get....maybe someone will take me up on it!! LOL LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Witchywoman]

Well Thomas...our dear friend Daniel is a bit of cliche.
There are several formally named defensive structures that fit his behavior.  But what you are referring to is, if I"m not mistaken, called "projective identification". That is where someone unconciously projects the stuff about themselves that they don't want to admit to on to other people and then criticizes it to no end.

But what it comes down to in normal language is lack of compassion rooted in fear.

I tried to be kind and at least unruffled in my responses to him in the past, but I have my limits! Good Goddess he's a piece of work!

I've got my stuff, lord knows I'm as neurotic as anyone, so I'm not pretending to be better than Dan or anyone. I do like to think that I at least own up to my stumbling blocks.

oi!

my love to you Thomas...hope you are doing ok, and I"m sorry to hear that you had to endure withdrawals yet again!

WW

[Witchywoman]

Well Thomas...our dear friend Daniel is a bit of cliche.
There are several formally named defensive structures that fit his behavior.  But what you are referring to is, if I"m not mistaken, called "projective identification". That is where someone unconciously projects the stuff about themselves that they don't want to admit to on to other people and then criticizes it to no end.

But what it comes down to in normal language is lack of compassion rooted in fear.

I tried to be kind and at least unruffled in my responses to him in the past, but I have my limits! Good Goddess he's a piece of work!

I've got my stuff, lord knows I'm as neurotic as anyone, so I'm not pretending to be better than Dan or anyone. I do like to think that I at least own up to my stumbling blocks.

oi!

my love to you Thomas...hope you are doing ok, and I"m sorry to hear that you had to endure withdrawals yet again!

Shotsy, I don't think you need to apologize for giving folks the benefit of the doubt. I'd rather be open to all, and get burned a few times, than be closed and hard hearted. Yeah, you may pay a high price a time or two, but the rewards of the wonderful folks that you connect with outweight the risks, in my view.

lots of love,
WW

[jule1]

WW - Hi my friend I havent really written to you recently and reading that it has been 2 months already kind of suprised me.  You really are the WOMAN!!!  I am so so so proud of you.  I am so happy that you feel again that you love life and feel all the good around you.  I had a ittle setback but will talk about it later you always give me tons of hope!!!  Love you tons.  Jules

Kristen - I was also wondering how you are please check in!!!

[Beth]

<font face="arial" color="navy"> Daniel, I'll say what my friends here are too polite to say. You are not a therapist. You are not sober. You are a junkie like the rest of us. How do I know? Because I, along with many here, <i>have</i> been through the personal hell of getting clean and <b>because</b> it is <i>such</i> hell, it's not so easy to say "I'm gonna get clean today, period." The reason you asked is because you yourself are stuck in the shallow but endless cycle of being a user and YOU want to know why you can't just tackle it with ease, treat it as you would any other disease. Why not tell us your story and we'll try to help. But don't lie, don't cover. I can tell you right now you'll never come close to sobriety if you can't even admit to a bunch of faceless internet strangers that you have a problem.

I'm 6 months clean from a 12-20 vicodin a day habit. It was HARD to beat, but thanks to a God with endless mercy and Thomas who won't ever lose faith in any of us enough to stop posting his detox recipe, I did it. You can too, but frist you gotta start talking.

[Witchywoman]

Hi Jules!
It is not quite yet 2 months, but will be in a week and a half or so. I've kinda lost count of when the actual first day totally clean was, but I began my withdrawal week in mid August. I took a teeny amount of the meds for the first 4 or 5 nights of the withdrawal, like one pill and the last few night half a pill, so I count those as using days. Still, I've been clean for longer than I thought I could ever be. Some days I have cravings, some days I don't even think about it, but every day I practice gratitude for not being stuck in the hell of the 15 to 20 a day I had been taking. Every day I still marvel at how great it is to not be a slave to a pill every 5 hours just to feel normal, and avoid the sweating and the shakes.

My back pain has also gotten better over all. Somedays it still spikes up a bit, but not as bad as it used to, and most days it is tolerable if I take enough ibuprofen.

I really truly at one point believed that not only did I never want to quit the hydrocodone, but I didn't believe that I could..I was terrified of the hell of withdrawals, and now, remembering that hell is what helps me on the days where the Dragon whispers.

I thank the Goddess for each of you, and for guiding me to this site.

How are you doing Jules? I am here for you always..just ask.

love always,
WW

[Thomas]

In case anyone has any doubts, Danielincc is none other than "Doc Dan" (his old address was danincc). Dan's specialty is sanctimony. He's not the least interested in extending friendship or help to anyone on this forum. His goal is judgment and condemnation. Not surprising, considering that his posts are those of an angry, contemptuous, pitiful human being. This is strictly an ego-stroke for this guy. He feels superior to us and wants us to know it. I for one will not be reading any posts from him. They're all the same anyway.

[cindi]

Thanks Thomas for helping out with that one....I knew it from the beginning........ummmmmmmmmm isn't true recovery also true honesty?  thought so                            love ya  cin

[Thomas]

oh, forgot one thing about our visitor, danielincc. One of the warning signs of impending relapse is unfocused, uncontrollable anger. Considering his recent posts, I'd say ole Danny boy is white-knuckling his way toward a relapse. Have fun, Dan. I only hope that, wherever you go for help when you relapse, that you're assigned an addiction councilor exactly like you.

[cindi]

when I e mailed you I had thought and thought about it and his posts are identical to those of doc dan  and yes i do remember the incident where he was royaly pissed about giving out his addy....PULEEEEZE   we may be addicts but we don't have SUCKER scrolled across our foreheads..seems to me we ahve had this problem before with people posting under different names for one reason or another  remember Brighty reeming someone  (of course in her most eloquent way) for doing the exact same thing.....Lets be honest...Thomas,,,you can't even begin to realize how much I value you and our friendship...love ya  and feel better        cin

[Milo]

I thought so! I remember reading "Doc" Dan's posts before I started posting here myself, and I wondered...This guy must be going through hell, determined to take as many folks along with him as he can. God help his clients. As a teenager I once had a counselor who turned out to be the only mental health professional in my home state to actually have his license revoked! Putting ourselves in someone ele's care (or being put there as I was) can be a truly scary thing.
I feel like it's winter outside, and wish all of us could be together inside by a roaring fire. How's that for a metaphor for this forum? -- Li'l Milo

[cindi]

well, all three of us saw the clues....and a roaring fire sounds great   now Doc Dan will love this one,,,we could all sit around the fire,,,,,eating our vics, valiums, xanax  love to all cin

[Thomas]

Xanax roasting over an open fire, Hydrocodone nipping at your nose ... I love those Christmas songs!

[SHOTSY]

Well, I for one fill like a sucker. I thought reaching out to him might make him reconsider his opinion of us and incline him to reevaluate his atitude. I didn't like the way he bashed Thomas.And others. But I thought maybe this guy was having a hard time and just needed someone to reach out. Evidently I've still got some learning to do. I apologize to everyone. Love,Shotsy

[cindi]

LOL  ya know  my songs and your songs we could put out a helluva CD  and Shotsy  how were you to know?   it's not your fault  I wrote to Thomas and asked him what he thought and being that Thomas is much wiser than I, came to the same conclusion..... if you go back to the archives you can see the posts regarding MMT etc. are all the same..and the anger and controlling attitude...so slap my ass and call me sally if we are wrong but,,,,NOT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    LOVE cin

[IrishRose]

Well hell, I fell for it too. And I restrained myself from my usual Irish vitriol in addressing him. I don't post often but have been ghosting on this forum for a long time now and I too recall the pompous sanctimony of His Assholiness Doc Dan. I have always thanked my lucky stars that I never encountered such "help" in the course of my recovery and if he is truly an addictions counselor-god help his clients.

[SHOTSY]

Well partly because this is the second time in a week that I've found out I totally misread someone. Found out that some one I thought was my friend just up and moved without saying goodbye. And my husband and I had invested a small amount of money to help her and her family.It's not the money. It's just finally knowing that this relationship was mainly based on what we could do for them. Which is okay as long as there is some give and take, but they didn't live up to their end of the deal.I just can't believe they didn't at least say goodbye. I'm 40 and still learning hard lessons. My husband warned me that I was being too gulible. I didn't believe him. But from now on I told him to give me the heads up, I'll listen next time. I think people need to realize no ones an island. We can either leave pleasant ripples or tidal waves. Thank you guys for being the pleasant ripples in my life. I've become so very fond of you all. Sincerely, Shotsy

[Thomas]

Although I minored in philosophy and humanistic psychology, I am not a trained psychologist, so perhaps WW can help me out here. re: danielincc, when you find that someone like danielincc expresses open contempt, if not hatred, for the people on this forum, you have to ask yourself, does he really hate us, or is it more likely that he hates himself for being just like us? Don't forget, while danielincc sticks to his "party line" posts, many, many of us say the kinds of things he really feels and would really like to say. Danielincc hates us because he hates himself. He is truly among the damned of God's creatures. Does that mean I feel sorry for him? Not on your life.

Thomas

[GJ]

Could someone enlighten me as to whom this Doctor Dan is? I know he made some slanderous remarks toward Thomas and WW (which I just recently read), but was there something before that which occurred??? I'm actually quite humored to be reading about this, my interest has peaked now :-D

[SHOTSY]

Does psychology help you figure people and yourself out better? Is it something that you would recommend studying, or is ignorance bliss? I had a situtation earlier this year that actually lead me to get professional help. We had this young man staying here to help with the business and help him to get on his feet (didn't work). He said he was bi-polar. For a while things were sort of okay. Well actually not> I had to spend a great deal of energy watching what I said. He would take things to realms unknow to me and get upset. Which in turn would get me upset. At any rate- over the course of time. Things just didn't jive. So I started researching disorders. He seemed to fit the profile of a sociopath more than bi-polar. Needless to say by the time we finally got him out of here (9 months) I was totally freaked out. I didn't let on to him but I should have won an emmy award. How do I know if I was right? I know he'll be back. He sometimes calls from Fla. to say he wants to come home? But this isn't his home. How would you deal with a situtation like this? I may need some pointers for the future. Thanks, Shotsy

[cindi]

Doc Dan had been a poster on this forum   a rehab counselor  never trying to help but belittling us,,,showing alot of anger toward us  he felt that those here did not want to help ourselves  that we gloriy our drug use...and if I'm not mistaken he himself is on methadone...i could be wrong....he had a pompous attitude and did not give a rat's ass who he said what to,,,,i noticed that this daniellincc sounded an awful lot like doc dan,,his attitude his posts etc..so with the help of thomas yep it's doc dan hiding behind another name,,,,check the archives and you may find some old posts from doc dan........cindi

[katie r]

I remember reading the posts from doc dan too. Thanks for pointing that out Thomas. I'd rather have my problems than his! I may be a junkie......but I bet he hears those "little voices"in his head.....among his other many problems. Now abut all of us gathering in front of a fire somewhere......I assume this will be a BYOBV party? Bring your own bottle of vicadin?
And if we're gonna sing Christmas carols....may I suggest "on the first day of Christmas, my true love gave to me...a bottle of hydrocodone,with 3 refills."

[Thomas]

I don't recall getting any e-mails from you lately or I would have answered you. I've been mostly off line because I have a horrible headcold and have been sleeping most of the day.

***@****

Thomas

[katie r]

Couldn't find any post's from doc dan......but could this be him???

Question Posted By: Daniel on Thursday, November 02, 2000


I have been on methadone maintenance for six years and would like to know if the duragesic patch would be an okay alternative to methadone. I am on a slow detox from sixty milligrams of methadone and would like to attempt the remainder of my detox using the duragesic patch. My clinic has helped me with all my pain and addiction problems and would like to obtain duragesic from my family doctor who is an internist. Can this be done?
Thank you in advance:
Daniel (Chem. Dep. Couns. Intern)

What's all that behind his name? His job title, I assume?

Then there was another: I found this one interesting...
Question Posted By: Dan on Saturday, February 03, 2001


Dr. Steve,
Opiate addiction is a disease and needs to be treated accordingly. Opiate addiction is a disease much like diabetes. A person takes insulin to maintain proper levels of sugar in their bodies. A heart patient takes digoxin to maintain proper heart functioning. An opiate addict may take LAAM or methadone to restore an imbalance in their brains due to the disease of opiate addiction.
New regulations would allow personal physicians to treat opiate addiction in the privacy of their office. This would allow methadone patients adequate medical treatment and have the same degree of personal care that a diabetic or heart patient maintains. This would allow the opiate addict/patient to get their medicine from a physician intead of a pusher or dealer. This would stop a large majority of street crime and violence and stop the spread of aids and hep c.
The average person or general public tends to think that all opiate addicts should be incarcerated due their addiction. The fact is society would be better off by allowing the opiate patient the treatment they need through their personal physicians. After all the opiate patient is suffering from a disease no different than a heart patient or a diabetic. So the medical profession and politicians should allow these new regulations to happen just as quickly as humanly possible!
Sincerely,
Dan...

Goodnight folks, Love you all! Katie
I don't always feel like I fit in here...you guys are so close....I must be feeling sorry for myself. Guess I'll go kiss and cuddle with my vicadin!

[kstuebin]

It sounds like your employee has borderline personality disorder.  I speak from experience because I am borderline.  I am now self employed but when I worked (in a long list of jobs), I was honest enough to call myself the employee from hell. Borderlines have severe problems with relationships.  You did well to hide your true feelings as his behavior would have been reinforced had you reacted strongly.  This is the way someone once explained it to me.  You have a room full of people chatting, in walks a borderline, 10 minutes later everyone is arguing except the borderline who is smiling. I may be completely off base as there wasn't alot of info in your post to go on but it did resonate with me. My advice...don't go there again. This is also basically untreatable. Nothing you can do will ever improve his behavior.

[cindi]

what the hell do you mean you don't always feel like you fit in here.    you are just as much a part of our family as everyone else is....some of us have been posting for a year or longer  some have been lurking for that amount of time..it doesn't matter..you do belong here and we love you..now go find a guy a cuddle with him   :)  and thoses posts doen't seem to sound like doc dan  he ususaly was not that nice and always signed DOC DAN...who know's                             love you   cin and BTW i havent heard from you in a few days...I"ll be looking for your email and then you can tell me what is bothering you

[Frank Lee]

Let's put this thread to bed, for now....

The mystery solved, the scoundrel foiled and the team responds. Great work guys and gals. Goodbye Dan, should you have the cajones to post again you'll get less a slamming because frankly Dan we don't give a damn for your bad vibe, condeming ilk. If you re-emerge with a new moniker you've stumbled upon a community who will nail you quickly. Substance abusers reconginize a phony Danny boy. Take your keyoboad elsewhere, les you see the light. And light there is here Danny boy, light there is.

Frankie Lee SA

that's substance abser Danny boy, my credentials, my problem

[Shea]

BRAVO! That was a Great send off to Doc Dan...very well put.

Shea

[Marryanne]

Hi everyone.  I am going to get clean.  I am going to use Buprenex.  I want to know if anyone knows anywhere I can order it from (amps or oral) besides HealthCarePharma.com?  They only had "Buph 0.2mg" and I'm not sure it's the same thing.  I have the clonidine and the baclofen that I need for the other symptoms.  I am sorry to hijack the thread but need some advice here.  I am also going to a new doc tomorrow and I was thinking of requesting a prescription for Bup from him but I am not sure if it's legal in New Jersey for pain treatment.  I do have chronic pain by the way but am tired of being a slave.  I am ready to take just Alleve when the pain is bad and head to an AA meeting.  Please respond, anyone and everyone who may have the answer to the above question - which online pharmacy can I get it from?  Thank you all for all your support!  Love, Mare

[Witchywoman]

Hi Marryane, and welcome to the forum!
I know very little about ordering from online pharmacies, maybe someone else here can help you with that.
I've heard that Buprenorphine is very helpful with narotic withdrawal, but I've also heard that it is important that if you are going to use it, to do it under medical supervision, because bup is also very addictive, and is currently the diversion medication of choice among health professionals with access to it.
This is just via the grapevine, I have no confirmation if that is indeed true, but figured I'd mention it.

I know some detox clinics use it successfully.

I think we generally try to stay away from posting about online pharmacies here, 'cause it can make it too tempting for folks to get the very meds they are trying so hard to stay away from. This is just my opinion though, there may be others here who have the info that you need.

Welcome to the forum..please know that even if we don't have the exact answers to your questions, we have a ton of love of support among us to offer you, and will be here every step of the way to support you through your withdrawal.

I also have chronic pain, and recently withdrew from my narcotic pain meds. The ibuprofen and aleve help to a certain degree to keep it manageable, and I can attest to the fact that for me, it is MUCH better to handle the moderate pain than to be in the hellish depths of compulsive addiction, like I was. Big time.
For those with stronger chronic pain, the battle is harder...learning to manage their pain med without abusing it...I tried that for a while, and failed miserably over and over!

Again, welcome among us, and I hope we can help.

love,
WW

[cindi]

Hey Maryann  good to hear from you again hon,,,I have wondered about you but lost your addy...listen  I think I may know someone who has access to a pharm that sells it....online...send me soem mail and I'll try my best to help you out....I know you have wanted this for a long time....one day we will all get it right...love ya  cin

[Marryanne]

Hey Cindi!  I don't have your addy anymore hon!  Mines  ***@**** so please send it to me again!  I appreciate you answering me so fast and I appreciate your answer too Witchy!  Yes, I have wanted this so very bad for so long.  I will be monitoring my BP during this time so thanks for your concern - plus there is always the ER if I need it.  :) Thank you so very much!  Love, Mare

[SHOTSY]

Well I looked up borderline, and that's not it. I can tell from your posts that you have compassion for others. When someone tells me a child with cancer is better off dead because they could continue that defect in the gene pool.That it's a waste of time and money to promote that life. It just sort of hits me the wrong way. Well, there are alot of other things but I think that argument was my first glimpse of something I had never expected.I think you'd be a cake walk compared to this guy. I learned one thing,look for contradictions. Some times this is done and means nothing. But constantly is were the red flag goes up for me. Sometimes I'm inconsistant because I haven't made up mind or I'm swayed by views of others to realign my thinking ie, the donation thing w/ PhillyChad. He had told me in the matter of five minutes that he was co-dependant and also independant. I told him they reasonably could not co-exist. He got slightly upset and argumentive, till I finally told him it was no big deal. He is also highly intelligent and would like to constantly flex his mental might and invaribly alieniate his self form others. He seem to crave the attention and adoration of others, but would do things that made people realize he was different.Initially I'd felt sorry for him. He went into great detail about being abused as a child, having to eat rocks, soap, buttons to stay alive because he wasn't fed regularly.Beaten, broken bones, etc. My huusband always said he was fabricating a lot of stuff. But you never know,what about the boy named "It". While it wasn't beyond the realm of possibility, I thought.My heart went out to him but in the end if all is true, I couldn't help. I'm still trying to figure the whole thing out. Not much luck there.Therapy didn't help me much either. Except she did say that I'm lucky. And I had reason to be anxious and she was glad to hear he was gone.Enough of this for now, If you have any more insight into this let me know. Maybe you can shrink my head LOL! Thanks : ) Shotsy

[jule1]

You are so much like me sometimes are you a libra also?  I think everyone gets on here reads and does not always respond to those posts they have read but let me tell you I always read yours and you always crack me up.  I still laugh when I think about someone saying they were dogsittig and there were pills they didn't take and you said something about loving dogs you know the story its not that funny but makes me laugh cuz thats how i felt.  I also think there are so many people posting here these days.  How are you doing anyway?  I had to take vics last week I had a root canal and a little car accident of course I took way too many at a time and now am craving them I was doing so great and now big setback oh well.  Do you have to have surgery?  What is that all about.  See you my little Kates - Jules

[cindi]

I agree   lets not beat a dead horse..obviously doc dan has some issues of his won and if and when he decides to get help  he knows where to go,,,a story would be nice and maybe an apology once he comes out of denial...so nitey night to dan....and i hoep yo sleep well...love to all  cin

[Witchywoman]

Hi Katie,
I can relate to the feelings of sometimes  feeling like you don't fit in...isn't that part of the whole addiction process though? Feeling isolated, misunderstood, and 'terminally unique'? I know I feel that way at times...That is why group support, and this forum, have helped me so much, because I've not been able to consistenly fall back on my twisted belief that I am inherently too wierd for anyone to really want to reach out to.  

We are all close here, and you are part of "we".
When I first started posting I was worried that this forum would turn out to be really 'clicky' and that I'd not be able to break my way into the 'in' group here..LOL  I found out fast that the only person stopping me from being embraced here was myself, and that the more I honestly reached out, the more folks reached back. There were a few times where I felt like I wanted more feedback than I was getting, but then I realized that I just needed to ask for it, and it would be there. Folks don't always respond to every post, I wish I could, but I don't always have the time anymore, but that doesn't mean folks don't care.

Can I recommend a book to you, and to anyone who is interested?
It is called "The Four Agreements".  It is an amazingly simple, yet transformative book. Just a bit of wisdom that makes a huge difference.  I try to re read it often.
For a tiny book, I've gotten more out of it than almost any self help book I've ever read.

ok..just wanted to give you some love from cyber space Katie. Vicodins can't cuddle back you know, but we can, er, sorta...

::cyber cuddles to you

love,
WW

[cindi]

iT'S TIME TO KILL THIS THREAD A IT HAS BECOME OR SHOULD I SAY HE HAS BECOME A REAL PAIN IN THE ASS SO i AM HIJACKING THE THREAD..

i HAVE BEEN FEELING A BIT BETTER LATELY AND VERY SENTIMENTAL...i HAVE BEEN COMING HERE FOR JUST ABOUT A YEAR  WHEN I THOUGHT I COULD NOT GO ONE WITHOUT MY MOM...THE OLDTIMERS AND THE NEWCOMERS, PERHAPS SOME OF YOU THAT WERE GHOSTING IT FOR AWHILE KNOW WHAT i AM TALKING ABOUT,,,I WANTED TO TELL YOU HOW GRATEFUL i AM TO HAVE SUCH WONDERFUL FRIENDS IN MY LIFE,,,AND NO, THIS IS JUST NOT THE INTERNET,,,EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU ARE REAL LIVE PEOPLE THAT SHOW NOTHING BUT CONCERN AND COMPASSION FOR THOSE EVERYONE THAT COMES HERE...I THINK ABOUT YOU GUYS OFTEN..NO AI AM NOT OBSESSED   oK MAYBE A ITTLE BUT  GENUINELY CARE ABOUT AL OF YOU,,,i WISH i COULD GIVE BACK TO YOU WHAT YOU HAVE ALL GIVEN TO ME,,BUT iCNA'T,,SO i WILL GIVE YOU THIS,,,yOU WILL FIND, AS YOU LOOK BACK UPON YOUR LIFE, THAT THE MOMENTS THAT STAND OUT ARE THE MOMENTS WHEN YOU HAVE DONE THINGS FOR OTHERS,,, tHE CAPACITY  TO CARE IS THE THING THAT GIVES LIFE IT'S DEEPEST MEANING AND SIGNIFICANCE,,.....i LOVE YOU ALK AND THANK YOU,,,,LOVE  CIN

[SHOTSY]

Hey, glad your doing so great. I need some words of wisdom from you.This stuff with anthrax has got me worked up. I know it's not a probability but it's not beyond the realm of possibility. See  that's what always gets me about things. I found out from going on the net that this stuff is worldwide. No actual cases outside of the US but something major going on. I think about if I quit taking the 1 1/2 vicoden would I go into withdrawal. Then I think about the people here and their pain. And it's like how would you know if it's withdrawal, the flu, or anthrax? I know I made comment earlier about the seeds of fear and pruneing them back. But today just 6 miles from my house they closed down a plant that received 3 cartons w/powder. They closed the hwy. and plant, etc. So those seeds just came busting forth again. Hell, get this, I emailed the president. Suggesting maybe using heat or cold for mail may do something to kill it. Of course I don't have a clue but it might work!? Okay so it's not rocket science but I wondered if they had thought of the simple things.So what do you think the course of action should be to help ourselves. Is there anything we can do? I didn't like the last time I flew for the simple fact that my life was in somebody else's hands. And by the way, if you feel like you need to tell me to chill, that's okay too. It just feels like it's going to be a long hard winter........ Thanks, Shotsy

[Witchywoman]

Hi Shotsy,
Goddess, I wish I knew what to say to make it all ok. I"m a bit wigged out about the whole thing as well.

I think though, that we have to do whatever it takes to keep our feet on the ground...prepare a plan in case something else horrible happens, but continue to lead our normal lives, and continue walking our own paths to health and wholeness, as much as possible.  The terrorists want to infect us with FEAR. And they are succeeding. How could they not? But, we can combat that fear with the commitment to do whatever it takes to keep the quality of our lives high, to keep growing emotionally, spiritually, and physically.

The fear of biological warfare also has renewed my commitment to keep my immune system at peak level. I've always been a bit lax about taking my general vitamins, but I"m now taking them religiously. No longer taking narcotics helps the immune system (narcotics supress the immune system after a while). Doing as much excercise as I can. Doing whatever I can to be sure that my relationships with the people I love are in good shape..staying in touch with my higher power...all these are things that keep me on my path, helping me cope with the fear that is naturally there.

So remember to love, and laugh, and live, while at the same time, stock up on cipro if you can get it, and be cautious.  We aren't fully in control, nope..we have to now all live with the anxiety that more dreadful things may happen. That is a tall order, to tolerate that anxiety..but with support, and uniting with each other, we'll have an easier time of it.

As for withdrawals mimicking the symptoms of anthrax...I think that withdrawal is classic, and there is no mistaking it, if you know you are dependant on a med. If in 7 hours you get symptoms and you haven't taken your pain med, chances are it is withdrawal and not anthrax.
I actually think that what is going on can be used as a motivator for getting clean, for those for whom that is an option. I'd hate to be stuck somewhere, for some reason, away from access to my meds, and go into withdrawal while in the middle of a crisis that would require me to be strong and functional. For those who shouldn't go off meds, for pain reasons etc...now is a good time to make sure that you have an extra supply just in case.  Here where I live, in earthquake country, Docs will almost always give you an extra ammount of whatever med you have, in order to have a reserve in store in case of earthquake.  

I've got cipro leftover from a kidney infection a few years ago, but am trying to get more. I have had two Docs tell me they won't give it, they are worried folks will take it at the first sign of a sniffle and the drug will not work for folks who really need it...but I won't take it if it isn't seriously needed. For once, I actually might even look into ordering it. The International Anti-Aging society website has it for sale, from a European source, but it is extremely expensive!!!
http://www.antiaging-systems.com/home1.htm

Eeeep I wrote a book here, didn't I? I hope this helps alleviate some of your anxiety Shotsy...but I'm feeling it too, so all I can do is share some of what I've come up with to help cope with my own feelings. I can tell you that where I work, we now have a waiting list for folks who want to get into see a therapist, and we've started a support group for people who have anxiety about the Terrorism. We are not alone in our fears, that is for damn sure.

take care Shotsy...I'll send you love, light and magick sparkels.

love,
WW

[jule1]

Hello my friends hello (that could be a song)  Its wierd living right outside of NYC during this whole mess first my husband was supposed to be in World Trade and now with Antrax guess where his office is it is in Rockefeller Center.  Something has given me peace though I feel he will be ok and believe me at first I was going crazy with him going into manhattan every day.  I just thought realistically he has a minor chance of being exposed and it is so treatable.  Shotsy you are right about something going over the mail to help, they could radiate it like they do meat but it would cost millions of dollars and they don't seem to want to spend the money.  I hope that if it was somehting that was immedietely deadly the government wuold not hesitate.  well you will be ok love to you both.  Jules

[Marryanne]

Cindi and Witchy, those were wonderful words from both of you!  These are the things I need to hear.  I am so ready to embrace sobriety.  I am tired of being a slave to the pain meds.  I got off them once and allowed the pain and my disease to take over.  There are specific things I want to do this time to stay sober once I get there.  My best friend has 4 months under her belt.  I NEVER thought she would get sober - we used to party together all the time.  It's great to go to AA meetings and movies with her.  I have quit drinking.  Now I need to stop taking the meds.  I need the Bup and am just waiting to get my hands on some.  I'd hate to go to that doc and pay 240.00 for 3 doses.  That would be 480.00 since my husband is going to quit too - and then if we need to go back, that's another 480.00.  We just cannot afford that and keep a roof over our head.  It's cheaper to go to the doc and let my prescribption plan pay for the meds but then I'm a slave.  I want to be ready and strong in case something happens with the country.  I was called to go to New York the day after it happened.  Then they called back and said, "There will not be a need for rescue, only recovery so your services will not be needed"  I guess the meds would have kept my pain controlled so that I would be able to work long hours but if I ran out, I would have gone into withdrawal and then been useless to everyone.  Please, if anyone is reading this and knows where to order Bup online, I am begging you to share this info with me.  Thank you so much everyone for listening.  Love, Maryanne - a nurse in need

[SHOTSY]

Thanks, guys. It's comforting to know that I'm Not losing it. And that there are others that feel the same as me. My sister is on Effecor and she doesn't seem to be bothered by these things. It's got to be the med.Hopefully all this will stop soon. Or they'll find out for sure who it is. Because my mind has conjured  up some senarios that are not good. Sometimes I wished I had a position in power. The first thing I'd do is evalute the schools and everyone in the last 10 years who could have incorporated themselves into that system. That's been my major anixiety is the children. ALL children. We need to protect them. But I've been taking mine to school, just praying that everything will be okay.And that I'm making the right decisions. Thank yous guys for your encouragement. I half expected everyone to tell me I should go to the mental health forum (uh oh maybe someone will). At any rate thanks for sharing with me. And witchy woman, as far as long posts go, I LOVE EM'. Thanks, you guys!!!!!

[SHOTSY]

Hi! Just wanted to let you know I care about your situtation. I'm not familar with the med. you need but wondered why your dr. couldn't help you. Surely there has got to be some way. I guess that med. isn't readily available to you? Can the dr. not refer you some where else, or use a different method to detox? I'm sorry I'm no help. Just know I care.  Sincerely, Shotsy

[littleguy]

Maryanne,

Email me about the Bup.  I might be able to help.

***@****

[Wiseone111]

Hi there everyone. I have been reading these messages for aboutthe last two months. And I finally took the leap and I am in the process of getting off of Lortab(Hydrocodone) addiction.
It has been almost a week sinve my last full day on the pills. A week ago today i was taking 6-8 pills a day sometimes more. The wednesday following that i broke down and took 1-1/2. Since wednesday I have not taken anything except the vitamins, vallium, and stuff listed in Thomas' recipe. My question is this.
How long does it take for the weird feeling in my stomach and the cold sweats to go away. I really feel like i am almost over the hump here. Would just be nice to havean indication of about how long i hace left.

thanks,
-W

[Witchywoman]

I remember wondering the same thing...it seemed that the stomache pains would never go away! oi!

After about a full 3 weeks, most of the tummy symptoms were totally over. I found out that high doses of tyrosine was making my stomache problem worse, so once I lowered it to one 500mg pill, the stomache pain got a little bit better.

It just takes a long time. Blech, huh?

It helps so much to hear how your withdrawals are going, since it helps me fight the mental cravings when they hit, and they do sometimes.

Congratulations to you for getting this far! That is great.
Please, do keep us posted.

love,
WW

[Wiseone111]

Thanks alot for the support. The stomach pains have really started to subside today. They did not start again until about 5:00 pm. I haven't taken the L-tyrosine at all thru this whole ordeal. But i did take alot of the Zinc and magnesium and B-6.
Hopefully I will be able to go back to work atleast by thursday.
In all honesty i cannot tell whether i am suffering withdrawal cramps or some kind of stomach virus. I have flu like symptons and went to the doctor today and he confirmed it. I apparently have the flu and a stomach virus. Of course i did not discuss with him the details of my hydrocodone addiction except to tell him that i did not want any cough medicine with codeine or opiates in it :). Also, the more i eat the more the cramps seem to subside. I guess after being a junkie for so long real food in my system might have my body jonzing for more.
Anyways, to everyone else on this message board, I have been reading these posts for months and without all the kind comments and loving words from all I do not think i could have taken the steps to be free of the drug i was under for so long. Wish me luck as I wish all of you luck and my prayers are with you all.

best wishes,
--W

[jule1]

Your nickname is very fitting because you truly are doing it the right way KUDOS to YOU!!!!   I have got to go to bed -had a root canal yesterday and didn't sleep much but I couldn't go to bed without saying I was proud of you and here for you I promise i will check on you tomorrow.  You need to come here often right now you need us and we need you.  Keep it up!!  Your new friend Jules

[Marryanne]

Thank you so much for your kind words!  Every little bit of support helps tremendously (as you know).  I want to thank all my friends here for their help and to let you all know that you have friend in New Jersey!  Love, Maryanne

[Marryanne]

I am so happy for you!  You are on your way to a better life.  I know it is hard to get off these things but you managed to do it!  Now, the harder work has begun for you (Yes, believe it or not, it is actually harder to stay sober than to get sober).  The mistake that I made was to "not work a program" and go to meetings.  Some people go to Narcotics Anonymous and some go to Alcoholics Anonymous.  Even people who do not really drink (but use drugs) go to AA sometimes instead of NA because they just like the meetings better (for whatever reason).  I hope I am not offending you by telling you about meetings.  They are UNBELIEVABLY helpful in the very same way the people here are.  The second meeting I ever attended, this guy came up to me and said, "What are you smiling about?" (he said it in a nice way) and I said, "I feel like someone has let me in on a big secret here" and he just smiled back and told me to "keep coming back".  You should find meetings and have them ready "just in case" you feel like using even if you don't actually go to one right away. If you are afraid that you will see someone you know, then do what I did - go out of town (they are held EVERYWHERE).  After awhile, I didn't really care anymore and now I attend them 10 minutes from where I live.  I do not go around anouncing that I attend meetings but I don't really care who see's me at them anymore.  I should mention here that I always drank with my pills and that I go to AA meetings. The recovery program of AA and NA is really amazing.  You will meet people there who truly understand and support you.  Welcome to the forum - keep posting, we need you as much as you need us Wiseone!  Love, Maryanne

[ssfr]

hi maryanne and everyone- please let us know how the bup experience works- certainly sounds like something i would try if it helps you

and trust me- i can use all the help i can get- looking forward to hearing from ya

[cindi]

I just got your email...I am oo ******* pissed right now I can't even think of what to say other than what ever happened to peoples freedowm of speech  I have to get to work later...then I will have some mail for you...............love cin

[nknct]

Perhaps they don't take it as seriously because it's not a disease. Just a guess.

[abusa]

I am new to this forum and would like a friend that is willing to help a youngen like me--I'm nineteen and have deg. disk dis.. I;m on 200mgs of oxys a day. don't have any friends, just lost the love of my life and I punch myself in the face, literally, when i have nervousness breakdowns. Have done it five times. Used to model for Roxy but I gained weight from depression. basically, i've hit rock bottom. I feel like I'm ruining my family's life and that my father will have a heart attack b/c of me. Have cried every day for the past year and right now as we speak. Started snorting oxys a year ago b/c doc wouldn't give me enough meds. Just stopped a week ago b/c I went crazy from it. And imagine this, I already feel better from not snorting and still have bad pain. I know I'm young and you'[ve probably already heard this story but I am hoping that someone will have some compassion for another lost soul. I'm scared to death of detox which I have to go to this week. What will happen if I go through it & am still in excruciating pain. seems like I'm on an endless cycle. come off drugs, have pain, go back  on drugs, come off drugs, have pain.... aaahhhh. I have read every comment in this forum and have compassion for each one of you, and sympathy for that lost soul in denial named danny dork. Seems like there's a lot of great hearts on this forum. would really like to know more about everyone.

and Ohhhhhhhh witchywoman, I can't get that song out of my head--love it!  

I live in san clemente ca and need guidance- sincerely- Katherine
(my real name)

[Wizard]

Such a sad story for someone so young and with so much life ahead of you. Well, you've come to the right place for compassion. That we are not lacking here on the forum. I know we sometimes think about what we are putting our families through by our abuses, but I think now is the time to not think about them and think about YOU. If you are going to beat this thing, you have to make yourself the most important consideration in your life. As I said to an above poster, "you need to love yourself enough" to be honest about your condition. You state you have degenerative disc disease. That is very painful and no one should live in constant pain. Why would your Dr. not give youenough meds for this? Or are they and you are taking more than prescribed? I think personally I'm more concerned with the fact that you are "punching" your self in the face. That tells me that there is something more deeply rooted than the disc problem. That "something" should be addressed by a compassionate therapist in my opinion, to find the root of this self abuse. Heaven knows us addicts are pros when it comes to abusing ourselves, but you seem to have taken it a step further and that I don't think we can SOLVE for you here. We CAN support you in your steps through recovery, we can suggest things to make detox a little easier. But we can't force you to love yourself. You sound like you have an opportunity to have a wonderful life ahead of you with a father who loves you enough to care. Take advantage of these gifts and seek out the right professionals to help you find your way. In the meantime, we will be here to care about you, to support you and to give a shoulder to lean on. My dear lady, PLEASE take the step and reach for the Light of freedom. I shall keep you in my thoughts and prayers as you go through these trying times.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz

[abusa]

wizard---your reply gave me shivers down my spine, I actually had no pain for a few seconds. Wow, you should be my therapist, j/k. i JUST MADE THE DECISION TO GO BACK TO SANTA CRUZ AND FINISH MY SEMESTER. yES, MY DOCTOR IS GIVING ME ENOUGH, BUT I WAS ADDICTED TO SNORTING THEM, i HAVEN'T FOR THREE DAYS NOW, AM STILL TAKING THE OXYS, AND AM HAVING,(OOPS I'M USING CAPITAL  HAH) not so bad withdrawals from the snorting. I used to be such a levelheaded person until i snorted them so i'm quitting. the only problem is that i'm freezing yet sweating, which i know are the withdrawals and they actually aren't that bad right now. I'll probably have to take meds for the rest of my life but hopefully i'll decrease my intake. I'm taking more than cancer patients, i don't have the balls to tell anyone about the snorting so i'll quit on my own, it's only been three days but I CAN MAKE IT. Thanks for your compassion and know that you are what's making me smile for the day. I'll write tomorrow sweetheart--kath

[butterbean]

Hi Abusa, I am Butterbean.  Like you I recently found this forum about 3 months ago.  Wizard and Witchywoman and the others have helped me so much.  I too have degenerative disc disease.  I have had it since I was 23.  I fell skating and since then has been down hill.  I started only on narcotics 6 years ago.  They worked wonders.  They had me on motrin, flexeril, parafon forte and many other things over the years and none of it helped.  However, I feel like I should stop taking narcotics and I went through detox at home over a week ago, but, started them back the day before thanksgiving, because of the pain.  I just need to learn to take them as perscribed and in the last year or so, I haven't.  Hang in there with us, we will be here for you.  You sound like a very talented person, and yu will be able to have your career and your bad back too!  pain managment.  If you can take the meds when you have the bad pain then do so.  If you can't stop abusing them, talk to your doc and see if there is something else that may work for you.  You sound like you have a lot of strength, you must have to have gotten a job modeling for
Roxy.  You also have to be a beautiful person, not just outside, but, inside too. I am 47 now and still work full-time and just completed my MSW degree going to school full-time.  You can do whatever you are determined to do.  Don't let your back or the meds hold you back.  Talk to me when yu can and I will try to answer whenever you post.  Take care.
Love Butterbean

[abusa]

tO BUUTERBEAN
i LIKE YOUR NAME. i NEED TO CHANGE MINE. another other huge problem I have is that my ex lives two streets away in santa cruz and it makes me weak to think about him. He thinks I'm a head case ever since he started modeling for tommy hilfiger--he used to be humble and now he justs hums in his head that he's the ****. he wants to be my friend and I told him yeah right buddy. What do you do when you're trying to get over your ex? My whole body encompasses itself with butterflys when i see him. He left me the day before thanksgiving after having sex with me for the past month and holding me all day when i was sad about my pain. I have no friends in santa cruz b/c of codependency on Fletcher (my ex) and it's hard to make friends b/c I hardly ever feel good physically and mentally. I'm so sorry to hear that you have the same thing, isn't it awful. But I'm proud of you for getting through school. Where do you live? What's your real name? Don't worry, I'm not a stocker--hah. I can hardly to my art work b/c I can't focus b/c of him. I know i need to think that it's all about me but i can't. I feel so alone in santa cruz. I live with five other girls and still feel alone. I know i'm young and will meet others but i feel like he was my soul mate. I feel like i should try to get him back but i know i can't. Boys are ******* aren't they. Maybe I should become a lesbian, at least girls have a little bit of sensitivity. Well guys do but they kill themselves before showing it gotta go
Love Katherine pleaaase write back

[butterbean]

You are very young, talented.  You don't need the ex. He walked away, and if he did it is his loss.  It is painful anytime we lose someone, especially if they are the ones who break it off, but, you have everything going for you. To get over him , maybe you should show some of your strengths by refusing to let him get you down.  There are many fish in the sea, you are young.  Someday, you will find your soulmate, if there is such a thing, and he will love you equally as much as you love him.  What you need to do first, is love yourself.  You can do this.  You have your whole life ahead of you.  What I do is when I have a couple of days of feeling depressed or sad about something, the next day, I say snap out of it!  You have only one life to live and you have a lot to live for.  I have kids, that is what keeps me going.  And I look at the trees, the flowers, the birds and say that I need to put my depression into perspective.  Try going a day without the meds, yu will hurt, but, know that you are feeling your real self and then when you need the meds, take one.  That is what I plan on doing, starting tomorrow.  I may regress again, but, I am going to try real hard.  I have clients that can't even walk, that is what snaps me out of my downs, telling myself that I have it so much better than some of them.  So I will talk via forum when you post.  good luck.  Everyone here is with you.  Post up further.  Most people don't come this far down, so they may not have seen your post.  OK.
Love Butterbean