This is Harder than I Thought

[T2112]

Around a month ago, New Years, I posted that I was going to quit 20+ painkiller (codeine, butabitol) that I had been taking for 10 years or so.  I was able to get down to 6 per day and that was by reading various posts on this site as well as the responses to my initial post (Thank You to those of you who answered).  Well I should have been off everything by now BUT ... the pharmacy called a few weeks ago when I was tapering from 6 to 4 and said they had a Rx for me to pick up and it had been waiting. I never dropped off an Rx or had one called in and certainly didn't expect it. I think when my Rx script ran out in their automated system they called my Doctor and had it refilled. What I should have done was ignore it and came back to the post but NO. My thinking was that I will go pick it up and keep it stored away for those days when the migraines are just too bad to deal with.  Well - 6 per day never did drop to 4. Then 6 became 8 per day for a few days which lead to 10 per day and then 12 per day.  I'm kinda irritated at myself because even though I went through the withdrawls from the immediate drop from 20+ to 8, and even getting to the point where I wasn't feeling all that bad, maybe even better, I allowed myself to escalate the amount per day to 12.

I don't want to be annoying and constantly post but it may be that daily posting is the only way. I have managed to drop from 10 per day to now 8 which is where I am at.  I really thought I could easily taper off these.  When I used to smoke pot I would do so for a month then not for 6 months.  Then make a few weeks and not again for a year.  I used to go out drinking socially and then one day 15 years ago I just stopped.  No issues, never any problems but these painkillers are different. What is it that can make a person look at a situation, tell themselves that it is not good, even counter-productive to take them and then take more pills then the day before.  It is a unrational thought process yet it is what happens.

I have read older posts that advised people to tell their doctor and the pharmacy not to refill any more Rx, which I did at the beginning of this week. I am also curious as to why I am able to stick to the plan if I read the psost on this website on a regular basis but if I stop logging on and just try to stop on my own I can not.  Anyway - Thanks for letting me type.  Any advice would be appreciated and I will continue to read and post until the day I can type that I am done.

[T2112]

I'm happy to say that I stuck it out and only took 2 Fioricet w/ Codeine yesterday.  Thanks for the advice.  This morning was and still is rough. I did not feel well at all but I expect to get through the day on only the 2 I had to take this morning to kill the headache so I could drive to work. If all goes as calculated, which I do expect not to feel that well, I will be done to zero on Mar. 5th .... or maybe even sooner. I am unsure but I have to think that there is little difference between taking 2 daily and none but maybe none is far more away from 2 then just 2 when it comes to the physical side of this.

[vicki595]

I just sent you a PM so I'll mention here that you may need to adjust your lifestyle to accommodate the muscle tension induced migraines. And you avoid the usual culprits, right?  Red wine, chocolate, MSG, low blood sugar, lack of sleep...

[T2112]

Hi.  Acording to the taper spreadsheet I made for my self I should reduce the Fioricet from 4/day to 2/day to be done on Mar. 5th. However, I spent from 5am to 9am today shoveling 10" of heavy wet snow which caused a huge migraine (kinda sounds like an excuse coming on) and is the first one since I started tapering. I already know my migraines are triggered by muscle issues. I took the 2 Fioricet w/ Codeine at 10am (EST) and would like to know if anyone has muscle triggered migraines and if anyone has any suggestions to assist with them that does not involve any Rx or OTC medication.I would like to post tomorow that I was able to drop to 2/day, per the taper plan, and not use the migraine as an excuse. Thanks all.

[BarbRTR]

Hi, just wanted to lend my support. I, along with my son also suffer migraines. I learned about rebound headaches from taking Excedrin. I took it daily for headaches, but migraines were a different ball game. Luckily for me, Frova, a triptan med works, usually. But Imitrex, another Triptan made my head feel like my brain was being eaten by fire ants. It was trial and error finding the right triptan and BP combo.

Regular opiates did nothing for mine, except a couple times a year, I would get a stadol/phenegran shot. If after two or three days I was still vomiting and had full blown migraine that long.

My son though hasn't been so lucky finding a med yet. He's 18, and at age two was pointing at his head saying hurt.. It professed so badly by high school he had to be home bound for school.

Well, soon we are doing Botox injections for him. But in all my research for him, I found a lot of migraine sufferers have sleep disturbances, even if they don't realize it. My son has a form of narcolepsy. Not what you see on TV. He doesn't just fall asleep anywhere at anytime, but doesn't get REM sleep well.

A lot of others have decreases in their O2 level while sleeping. They are quick drops, then back to normal, then down again.

It's amazing how this is the cause of so many migraines and cluster headaches. But I reaserched deep, you do that when it's your child. Lots of Drs never even think to do a sleep study. But it's worth looking into.
That info was for all the migraine sufferers out there.

To the OP, I'm praying for you, you're doing well with your taper. Slow and steady, and with time, that hated word out there, I'm betting you feel 100 times better once your off for a couple months, and I bet you have less headaches too. After what I learned about rebound headaches, ( not migraines) I am very careful not to reach for Excedrin unless it's pretty severe.
Good luck to you!!

[YesLife4Me]

Just wanted to chime in and say you are doing great.  Its not easy but once you hit your jumping off point, a few more days of physical and then it starts to improve.  I hope today goes well for you!  :)

[T2112]

Just checking in again. Yesterday was another day at only 4 Fiorcet. Actually I have been at 4 for the 3rd day in a row and 4 days out of the past 6 days.  Something different happened this morning. Typically I always take enough with me each day (plus an extra 2). Well this morning I left for work and forgot to reach in the bottle and take any with me when I left. That is the first time I have forgotten in 15 years. I figured it out when I got to work. I'm not to worried as I keep/kept 4 in the truck because, well you know, just because. I think I may see how long I can go without today or perhaps I will just stick to the taper spreadsheet as it appears to be somewhat working.

[T2112]

Just checking in. Yesteday was another day at only 4 Fioricet.  Other than the Fog most is normal BUT I am beginning to notice that my legs spasm quite a bit during the day. I know it is part of the process. I cannot wait to be done with all of this.

[vicki595]

Hi-   Yes, it's normal.  I only have a second for now but it's true; the symptoms increase exponentially as the dose decreases. That's why a taper needs to be slow...     Hang in there and I'll PM you later.

[T2112]

Wow - What a morning. My stomach is upset, even a tad painful and I can't see all that well - hard to keep the letetrs in focus. I am sooo gald I was told about the Immodium. I actually feel worse going from 6 to 4 per day than I did going from 12 to 8 per day. Does the true WD sysptoms really hit when you hit a certain minimum level? I assume I will find out over the next few days. And another thing - I have become lazy and out of sorts. That's not me normally (on the medication anyway). I hope this is temporary.

[YesLife4Me]

Glad you gave an update.  The vision thing is normal during wd.  I would have blurry vision or sensitivity to light.  The opiates make our pupils pinpoint.  They are larger than normal when coming off them.   I know that feeling all too well when you see the bottom of the bottle.  So glad not to be worrying about it anymore!   Id get panicky and start making calls so I wouldn't run out.  We will be here for you.  You are doing great!!  Now I gotta get off here and get ready for work...lol.  

[T2112]

Hi - I am posting to stay connected and see this through. This weekend was extremely busy and in some ways I think that has helped.  I am following my plan and am now down to 4/day which is an 80% drop since the beginning of the year. I am starting to feel the effects. A lot foggy, a lot tired, and a lot sore. I seem to be having some weirdnedd with my eyesight from the time I wake up until I fall asleep??? I am still in my basic sleep pattern for the most part. It is some scary seeing only 20 or so Fiorcet left in the bottle and knowing there will not be another refill tomorrow. If all goes as planned this week is the last. Then I will need the support more than ever.

T

[HadEnough0920]

I'm glad you chose to post here.  Many, including myself, suffer from migraines.  You will do anything to get relief.  I too took Fioricet for about a month.  It worked fine to get rid of the migraines, but I wanted to prevent them if possible.  I found a doc that sat down with me and we went over everything.  He asked me about my sleep.  It turns out that I would wake up with the migraines about 90% of the time.  He Rx'd me amatriptyline and clonazepam to help me stay asleep and be more restful.  Very small dosages of each.  I noticed that it took a bit to get used to the meds.  I was foggy upon waking for an hour or so.  But the migraines became very infrequent.  Then we worked on finding a medicine that would knock them out if I did get one.  I tried a few, but settled on Relpax, which is a Triptan similar to Imitrex or Frova.  It is not without issues(extreme tiredness), but it gets rid of them quickly for me.

I posted to let you know that you're not alone, and there are safe, non addictive options out there that work.  Talk to your doctor about them.  It may take some trial and error, but you'll be much happier in the long run.  Good luck.

[T2112]

Ok. Kinda Blah. Thank you for asking. Waiting for the work day to end to go home. I took tomorrow off so I can have at least 3 days to just focus on not much and walk through the Fog. I have only taken 2 Fiorcet today. I have been able to not take any to get up and into the shower. I'm following the same pattern as yesterday. I am very much looking forward to hanging out with my daughter. The kid (ahh 14 y/o) is so funny. She is an increadable softball player. She is a pitcher and plays 12 months a year. Pitching lessons one night during the week, hitting practice another evening then games on Saturday & Sundays. I do get sad when I realize I am not coaching her anymore. The more of the medication I took daily over the years the less I wanted to take on all the responsibility for the entire team.

I will say that I have not had a headache for days now. I am assuming they will come but it is far easier to stick to a taper plan when the headache is no present. The next 3 days will be Ok, I hope. When it's just the kid and I it is really a fun, no stress time. In all honesty, it was worrying that my youngest daughter would relaize that I had a problem that began my quest to be free of the Fiorcet. The softball travel circuit covers 5 states, mulitple weekends, multiple days out of town. I was always worried about the supply of pills I had and if I was in need of a refill how and where would it work out. When you're in another state pharmacies seem to not be as receptive to filling the Rx. All I did was worry. It wasn't fair to her. Anyway, that should not be an issue this season.

[vicki595]

T-  How are you today?  I've found that the headaches just go away once the pills are gone. I was a huge migraine person, diagnosed, and suffered for years. It was mostly the damn pills. In the last 3 years, l've had very few headaches. Most go away with Excedrin and I think I've taken 2 Imitrex...so you might be surprised.  

[T2112]

I tried that Proprananol along with other beta-blockers and they didn't seem to work. What I can't remember is if I was on the Fiorcet at the same time. If so I am sure I enjoyed being on the Fiorcet more than any other medication - especially back in the early days. Fiorcet use to put my mouth in gear. I would call people on the phone that I hadn't spoke to in years just to talk a lot to someone. Not sure why that happened - It's doesn't do that anymore.

[YesLife4Me]

Good idea on the spreadsheet!   And glad you are slowing down on taper. Once you are done, you should start having less and less rebound headaches.  That is so nice!   Also like sweetnes I was consumed with headaches/migraines daily until I was put on proprananol (another beta blocker blood pressure med) and now I rarely get migraines.   They aren't sure why it works for some people, but it does.   And I don't have high blood pressure.  Has something to do with blood vessels swelling and constricting during the migraine process.  

[Sweetness91]

I'm not sure if this can help you or not.... But probably 15 years ago I was on that vicious cycle of having headaches or migraines every single day. It was horrid! I went to countless doctors trying to find the cause and a solution. (This was before I started taking pain pills)...one doctor gave me the fioricet also...but it didn't help me so I didn't take that long. I was sent to three different neurologists and finally the last one put me on a combination of Atenolol (beta-blocker) and Prozac(of all things...lol). But it WORKED!! It had something to do with the brain chemistry and whatnot. I took it for several years and knock on wood, never had another migraine. And let me say, the migraines I had were debilitating....my husband would usually end up taking me to the ER after 3-4 days of one because I would be dehydrated from all the vomiting, and I would get IV fluids for a few hours and a pain shot. Anyway....it's something you could talk to your doc about....I know how headaches can be...it consumes your life after awhile and that is no way to live. :( Good luck!! And good job on your taper!!

[T2112]

I created a spreadsheet to track the taper plan I am following. I was unaware of the seizure part of the whole process so rather than be too abrupt I will follow a more drawn out plan. It may take a week or so longer than I want but the goal is to stop. I never liked taking the Neurontin so I was only taking 1/day until I started tapering then I moved it to 2 or 3 per day only for the past couple of days. I will just go back to 1/day and then stop taking it. I was taking, at one point, 9 Neurontin per day per my Dr's advise but then I was told to taper of the Neurontin rather than the Fiorcet. When she decided that she did not want to prescribe Fiorcet anymore I was told to esculate back to 9/day of Neurontin and begin to taper of the Fiorcet. So for the past few months I have been rollercoasting up and down with two different medication per the advise of my Dr. At this point I just want to be free of both medication and see what happens from there. How sad it would be if the medications have contributed to the headaches over the past 10 years or so.

[YesLife4Me]

I hear you.  It was the only thing that seemed to work, then it turned on me.  Soon i was cranky, irritable, and tired all the time.  Part of the withdraw from it is the headaches, so you take a couple to get rid of it, then as it wears off, here comes another...then you are in a vicious cycle.   Tremors, shakes, sweats, stomach pain are all with draw symptoms.  Since you are taking the ones with codeine, you are probably suffering opiate withdraw too.  No energy, mental fog, runs, etc.  Can you enlist the help of your Dr?    It was hard but I had to tell mine I had relapsed and needed help.   I was getting them off the net, so had to tell him that.  He was very supportive and understanding.   Its very addicting and I had no idea.  Took it for 10 years with the last 5 abusing it.  I was taking 15 a day.  

[marycarmel]

You've got an angel on your side with Vicki.  Neurontin isn't safe to stop abruptly since it can cause seizures, too.  Some people say it helps with wd.  I was on it for nerve pain but even @ low dosage it caused me to sound like I was drunk.  

[T2112]

The sad part of this whole journey is that the Fiorcet at one time was the perfect prescription to allow me back into life. Daily migraines, some worse than others, had me taking around 16 Advil per day. Well it didn't take long until my kidneys were only functioning at a 20% level. I got pretty sick and was told to never take Advil again. The headaches got to a point that I couldn't go to work, back then the kids were something like 7y/o and 2y/o and wanted to be involved in sports, etc. but I was always in a dark room, in bed covered in wet cold towels. The Fiorcet allowed me to forget the headaches. I became involved in everything. It was great. Then I noticed that 2/day turned to 3., then 6, then 8 an so on. I would be lying if I said that they did not help. They did. I think the problem is that they are addicting, the tolerance builds up and the last thing I want is to go back to the headaches which I am probably going to have to deal with in some manner shortly.

You mentioned something that struck me. When I was taking 12/day I noticed that I would wake up with headaches, take 2 just to get to the shower and take my next 2 a few hours later when the headache started up again. I am not sure why but when I take less than 6/day I am taking them to taper and ease the WDs. Not because of the headache because I go days without one. I may wake up shaking, sweating uncontrolably but there is no headache.

I don't want to make this post too long but I noticed another thing. I had back surgery and told to take Neurontin which I am told is a non-narcotic. If I take it now I notice the WDs are almost not there. The only problem is they put me to sleep. It's like drinking Nyquil and going to work. I just sit there drinking Mountain Dew so my head doesn't hit the keyboard. Nevermind actually trying to work. But they seem to help the WDs and still no headache. I think the headaches, medicine, symptoms, causes, etc. is just far too complicated to resolve. What may work for one will not for another. I need to find my non-narcotic solution.

[YesLife4Me]

Hi There.  I had a nasty addiction to that stuff as well and wound up going to rehab.  Before I went to rehab the Dr gave me phenabarbital to help ease withdraw.   I got myself back into trouble with them on my own after that.   Thought I could control it like you and realized I had a much bigger problem than I thought.   Tapering can be done if you can manage your intake, but you have to be really committed to doing this.    For me, if I had pills, I took them even though I wanted to be done with them.  It was always ef it I will start the taper tomorrow and then when I knew I didn't have enough to taper successfully I would take less each day until I was out so w/d wouldn't be as horrible.   The Fiorcet causes awful rebound headaches and once I was off it, my daily headaches ceased.   I still get migraines and headaches, but they are controlled with Excederin or Zomig.   I tried using Norco to manage my pain and headaches, but that turned into a whole nother addiction.  

[vicki595]

Yes, you'll feel it after a drop of 50%. But, right now all you want to do is prevent a seizure, you don't have enough pills to do a comfortable taper. Have you totally given up on talking with the doctor about this? She/he should help you...Are you afraid to admit you have a problem with these?

Jumping off over the weekend is too soon, in my opinion.

[T2112]

After a stressful meeting last night it was nice to just fall asleep. Today I have only taken 2 pills. I went from 8/day over the past weekend to 6 on Mon and 6 yesterday. While I am not sure if I can stay at 2 today. May have to stay at 4 for a few days. But at least it's far less than last week. I assume if I dropped 50% in a week I will begin to feel even worse over the next few days. If I can find a way to stay at 4/day until the weekend I know, well think, maybe hope is the right word, that I can remain on only 2/day or just jump off over the weekend. I'm stressed that I feel better today then the past few days. I would think it would be the opposite. I am sure it is going to catch up with me. Thanks for listening.