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Thomas Recipe
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Thomas Recipe

Hi everyone. What is the Thomas Recipe I have read about here? Does anyone know specifically what it is and what it is supposed to do?  I am guessing there are many readers that would like to know besides me - so would someone please post more info on it.
Thank you
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Thomas Detox Recipe

PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (immodium) (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium (immodium) aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.
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Whazzzzzup?  I'm still hanging w/o any oxy's.  It sure ain't easy though.  It seems that the older that I get, the easier it is for me to just say_ _ _ _IT!!! My addiction tries to forget about all of the pain & mysery I go through when I am using.  I  don't know, if this is as good as it gets, staying clean doesn't look so good after all.  But, as of this post, I have been clean for almost 3 weeks and have no desire to use right now.  I hope u r doing well with your recovery; how long clean now?  hang in there & have a great weekend.  I've been glued to the T.V. checking out this war in the desert.  That new hi-tech stuff with the "smart" bombs is unbelivable.  My prayers are with all of those guys over there fighting for our freedom.I may not completely endorse our choice to go to war right now, but once the green light is given, I support the good ole U.S. of A. all the way.  Later
SABIAN
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Hey, when you feel like saying **** it, just run the film to the end; it'll just be worse each time.  I know what ya mean; but things really improved for me after about a month(3-4 weeks).  I just passed 7 months on the 19th; and feel great. I think a lot of us (me included) get clean, and then expect the world to just present itself to us.  Remember, we still have to put some effort in to get something out.......things just won't fall on our laps.  

I hope you continue to be strong Sabian!!!
Have a Great weekend yourself

percs
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OMG........I just realized how that sounded......LOLOL    Did I wake ya up????!!
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Hi Doll---I likes what you said at the end about the effort we have to put into our recovery to garnish any rewards...It seems like we have to expend so much energy into detox and recovery for weeks and even months; we wonder if theyre's anything LEFT????  LOL  But, there is, if we dig deep enough, and the digging gets a little easier all the time.
   So------does this mean you won't be in my lap any time soon?? :-)    Take care---Peazy
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Spell much?
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Boy...it's been a long time lurking.  This board helped me through the hardest time of my life a year and a half ago.  Just reading from other people who understand was a God send.  2 years on 240 mg a day of oxycontin and lots of soma and percocet to wash it down daily.  I went cold turkey.  Ouch.  Big, big, ouch. I don't remember the first 3 days at all but on the fourth day I had to get a new mattress if you catch my drift.  I didn't eat for the next 20 days!  Yes you can go that long on just Gatorade.  Life felt so surreal.  When I could manage it, I would hop on this board and read untill my eyes hurt.  Just knowing others had done it before me was so comforting.  Just the hell I went through physically is enough to keep me off the painkillers.  That was the most wacked out couple of months of my life.  It's strange that people you have never met can seem like friends anyway.  I am struggling so hard right now.  Believe it or not I reeeeely want my soma back.  Just knowing there is no physical withrawl symptoms with such a nice buzz is just mentally freaking me out.  I hate booze and I'll never touch the hard Narcs again but that soma has a mental tug on me that is hard for any of my close friends here at home to understand.  It's like I can just hear my old pain med doc calling my name.  God, I wish he would just go out of business so It wouldn't be so easy to make an appointment.  It just never goes away does it!  That urge to just escape sometimes is so overwhelming that it just makes me sick.  Wife, 2 kids, steady job...and lots of bills...run of the mill I guess..but so, so hard to handle every now and then.  Anyhow, just wanted to say thank you to everyone who posted stuff I needed during such a hard time.  I figured since the Thomas question was answered it would be ok for me to butt in on this post to say thanks.
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So would it be inappropriate to wave a $5 bill in the air?

Kilo
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LMAO!! Isn't it amazing what a little humor can do?? Thanks youse guys. peaz
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Not really.
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Is that K for Kevorkian? (I'm just hanging on til he makes parole.)

Soma over Oxy, huh? I've never heard that one before. I'd vault a dozen crates of Soma to get to one bottle of Oxy! Maybe two or three dead pharmacists, as well. I doubt if that will ever be an Olympic event ... a pity, though. I coulda been a contenda.

Thomas
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Hey man, how are you today?  I appreciate you reminding me that it takes alot of work on my part to make this life without Oxycontin work.  I'm trying hard; I just wish I had more energy and felt better.  I haven't given in yet, even though I've had 3 people call to let me know that the magical yellow and green beans are available.  Like you said, just run the tape to the end and look at the misery that follows.  Beating that oxycontin is a *****; those things are just so damned addictive.  I'm clean today, and I hope I will be clean tomorrow night at this same p.m.  Enjoy your Sunday evening, and remember, it could be much, much worse; we could be over in the desert fighting the sand men and having WD's over there!  Wouldn't that be a *****?  Thanks for listening.
SABIAN
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re: Xanax, yes, very easy to get hooked on. At least your friend is only taking it at bedtime. Xanax has an especially dramatic onset that people start liking in a hurry. The action of Valium or Klonopin is slower. And both leave the body more gradually than Xanax, which makes discontinuing them easier.

And it's the Marshall Plan and the Thomas Recipe. Neither has anything to do with the other. Of course, Germans could use the Thomas Recipe ... just not while they're rebuilding their country using our money.

Thomas
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Hello There!!
In your explanation of the Thomas Plan you said to try and use Valium or Klonopin and not Xanax.  Why?  Just wondering cause I have someone real close to me who takes 1.0(blue's) every night and sometimes 2 if the they need it.  It was prescpribed by a physician who is using this to replace Elavil(not sure bout that spelling).  Are xanax easy to get addicted to?
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Have you started an exercise program(of any kind) and the L-Tyrosine??  I just can't remember if you told me that yet.....
If you haven't, you would be amazed how it will help kick the **** out of the "blahs"........and re-energize you.

I've said numerous times, that after i got about a month clean, the most powerful recovery tool, has been getting back to the gym.

Hang in there brother!!!!

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LMFAO.........
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Esgic Plus:

So everyone knows I never have asked for help before in regards to my addiction with Esgic Plus.  This is the first time I ever went to a forum.

I have tried over and over to get off of this medication and I just can't seem to do it.  I do okay after the shear hell of 7-10 days of no sleep, pounding heachaces and of course the "fog" goes away, but I go right back on it after I get through it. The last time I couldn't even go off because the pain in my head was so bad, which I believe Thomas mentioned about caffiene causing.  

I guess I have always been the addictive type - cocaine being one when I was in my 20's.  Ever seen the movie Blow?  That was me, but I got help and moved on with life.

I'm a sucessful business person and I feel I have to have them.  For some reason I feel like they give me energy, but in reality I pass out dead to the world.  My poor husband knows how I am addicted now **again***, only because I admit it every time when I finally want to stop.  

This is at least the 20th time I have stopped and always start again.  I hate these damn pills.  I take up to 10 or more pills a day.  I have been off of them for all of 6 hours and I'm freaking out.  I was only taking 6 a day (like that is any better), but recently my work is pulling some real b.s. after 7 years of dedication to them.  You know how it goes.....Move the new guy in and the old out.  They are trying to push me out with new Management.  I made those S.O.B.'s over 50 million dollars and of course I sure didn't see 50 million - not even close.  I guess it helps me cope to pop pills.  I feel really weak and alone.  I'm afraid to tell my Doctor because he may not let me go the taper off route and then what?  Well, I guess it couldn't hurt - all he can say is no.

I can't function at work, if I don't take them I'm a wreck.  What should I do?
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You named what is, as far as I know, the only way to safely discontinue Esgic plus (Fioricet): a slow taper over at least one or two months. That will take discipline. If your husband is willing, perhaps you should draw up a taper schedule and have him give you each day's ration. Just remember, the lower your taper dosage gets, the slower you should reduce the dosage (meaning smaller reductions with more time between the reductions). You should not try to decrease the dosage each day or even every other day. It's better to make a reduction, then stay at the level for a few days until you feel stable. Then reduce again, etc.

As for telling your doc, well, that's dicey. On the one hand, he might be supportive of your efforts to get off the Esgic. On the other hand, he might cut you off and refer you to a rehab.

Whatever you do, do NOT try to go off Esgic Plus cold turkey. You could seizure or worse.

If you think you and your husband can do this without medical intervention, I'd say nothing to your doctor in order to have enough Esgic to complete the taper. Also, because of your situation at work, you may not want to go into rehab. If the news reached your enemies at work, I imagine they could use that as an excuse to demote you or worse. (I know that isn't "legal," but I'm sure you know all the ways companies have to ditch someone and avoid liability.)

I know that many people need the help of a rehab to stop using. But I also know that all of us have to eventually learn to do without these drugs without outside help or force. A tapering experience would be good for you. If you fail the first time, don't beat yourself up over it. Just regroup and start again.

Recovery is a learned skill.

Also, you might post up in the first thread to attract the attention of some people here who are fighting the same battle as you are. I would call your drug by its common name, Fioricet. Good luck.

Thomas
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Hi Thomas,

I'm glad you answered :)  

I can go the taper down route, but I can guarantee the Doctor won't prescribe them.  I think he knows I have a problem because the last prescription was denied and that's why I see him tomorrow.

I can't go in rehab because I'm the bread winner of the family. He knows the work issue, so maybe he can help me somehow. I think I was trying to dull the pain of my stress in the workplace the last 5 years.  I don't know and it's no excuse.  

I wonder if a "dispensing" Doctor can help me monitor this?  I've heard of them, but not sure how safe these Doctor's are.
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Why don't we all just ignore and not even ever so slightly acknowledge this "BSills" or aka "Braindead Sills"? This a-hole is obviously getting what he/she wants - wasted posts of pissed off people who all give tremendous advice. If people just simply IGNORE everything posted by this ignorant troll, then the posts can go on as intended: terrific advice from intelligent, caring people who don't have time to play mind games with hurting individuals who are asking for help. By even acknowledging this delusional fool, you're all playing into his/her hands and he/she is probably jerking off (pardon the expression) to all the feedback!  Love to everyone and appreciate all your support and advice!  Kat
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If you are doing a medicated detox, try to taper with a differerent, preferably weaker, structurally differernt opiate. If you still feel weird, go for a differernt, weaker opiate the foillowing weak- say Darvon -in the smallest dodes possible.)  Any of the BENZodiazipines work well.  I recommend Xanax or Ativan, and sometimes Teazapam for sleep.  But do not take more than it is "prescribed for", and try to take only what you need because of the real addictive potential of Benzos (Respect their power and danger).
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That would be: Temazepam.....
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Dancing in the Dark :)

I found your other site already by reading many strings, so you can read what Golden Slipper & Kat said.

I'm waiting on the "big" guy now - Mr. JR.....hopefully he has some insight on the right amount to use at first.  I'm working with my Doctor now.

Yesterday I had 9 because I was so out of sorts and this a.m. I'm reallly in pain.  I don't want to taper too much, so I can't function.  My head is pounding so bad and yes the neck pain is horrible :(  

I saw the other posting that bashes whatever you had said on a string and I responded.  I never saw the original string.

Take care,
Roxxy
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Hi, Roxxy.  Sorry I didn't see your posts sooner, but I moved over to the "drugabuse.com" board - go there, and click on "support" and you will find a thread called something like "Fiorinal/cet Adiction (addiction) #2".  That's where our little group posts now.  No offense to Medhelp, but they have deleted and locked up our threads several times - a "space" problem I guess.

Anyway, I'll respond here to you this on time......

I am not a doctor or anything.  But, after using Fiorinal/Fiorinal with Codeine/Fioricet (Esgic) for more than 20 years, and taking as much as 20 pills a day as recently as August, and trying to quit multiple times, I probably know more than most doctors about how this stuff affects you, withdrawal and a lot more.

Up until September '02, I did it all.  An orthopedic surgeon started me on Fiorinal and Fiorinal #3.  He kept prescribing (way too many) for about seven years, then cut me off because he had been sued for over prescribing pain meds.  I went to other docs, then tried detox about ten years ago.  I was in a rehab/detox center for 28 days.  It was pure hell, they really didn't understand barbituate addiction, and when I was released, they gave me tylenol!  After about a month, I was back on Fiorinal.  Net, net.... over 20+ years, I went to multiple docs and got prescriptions then filled them at different pharmacies.  I had docs cut me off, went to new ones, etc.  I finally, a few years ago, started writing my own prescriptions and filled them for several years until I got caught.  I was arrested, and luckily I had a good lawyer and the DA and judge were great.  I got a "Filed without a Finding" judgement - I have to keep seeing my neurologist and keep tapering, and I am on probation for two years.  After two years, everything goes away, just like it never happenned.  Lucky!

Anyway, Roxxy, like you I am a succesful business person.  I have a very stressful job and have to travel a lot.  I have been married for more than 25 years and have three great grown up kids.  Somehow, despite all the F I was taking, I managed to raise my kids, stay married, and do pretty well.  I was truly a "functioning addict".  No one knew about my secret, until I told my family and doctor lsdt fall.

After I was arrested the end of August, I started to taper on my own because I was running out!.  I had an appointment with a new doc coming up in September, but otherwise no way to get more F's.  I tapered from 20/day to 12 a day in a month.  It was very difficult - I couldn't sleep, had musclle cramps and god awful h/aches.  Then I saw my new primary care doc.  I told him EVERYTHING.  It was the first time I ever did that with a doc.  He was great.  He immediately had me see a neurologist who specialized in headaches and pain med abuse.

The neuro agreed to help me taper if I only saw her and followed her program - I agreed.  She said she would taper me down by one pill every month or so, since I had been on it for so long.  She put me on Neurontin, which helps prevent/lessen headaches, and really helps settle you down.  The first day on it, I had the best night's sleep in years.  Then the next day, no hangover or anything.  My dose had been gradually increased and I have no side effects.  I am now down to 6 F's per day, and working on getting down to 5/day.  This doc gives me 10 days supply of F, then I have to call her for a refill.  I see her every month.  She is really doing a great job in helping me.

Roxxy, I feel your pain.  This is tough, but we can do it.  Please join our group!  Having been through it all, I can say that with only a few exceptions, detox will not help you.  You should find a good neurologist who is willing to help you through this.  If you go to one and he/she won't help, find another doc.  They should put you on a reasonable taper program, and they should give you something non-addicting to help, like Neurontin.  You might also need something like Immitrex for the "breakthrough migraines".  You should go to only this one doc, no cheating.

Meanwhile, or if you can't find the right doc, take Thomas' advice and have your husband help you thru this.  Set up a taper schedule and have him hold onto the F's, and give you a day's worth each morning.  If you know that's all you have, you wil be more likely to not go over your set amount.  Cut down by one pill per month - that's fast enough.  If you get h/aches in between the F's , take Advil Migraine (2 pills) - that will help.  By the way, a little secret from my doc - if you can't sleep at night, buy some Benadryl pils/caps.  You an get them over the counter at any drug store of supermarket.  Many have their own brand and you can get 100 pils for about $4.00.  Benadryl is an antihistime, harmless and non-adicting.  About half an hour after you take it, it make you tired.  Take 2 pills before bedtime.  They will help you fall asleep, and there are usually no side effects.

Roxxy, please join our group so we know how you're doing.  I don't monitor this board, but I do check the other on every day!  There is a lot of help and support there.

Good luck.  You are a successful bussiness person, and you can do this.  You just need some determination and a lot of help.  And, if you slip some days, don't panic - just go back on your program the next day.

I hope to hear from you soon, and hope you succeed - as I know you will.  Together, we'll all make it.

Best,

JR   (FiorinalJR)

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JR!!  There you are :)

I already feel like I have made such good friends, just with the few comments I have posted.  

I have some posts on the other site to, so you can read them.  I replied to you last one to Kat, so I'll keep replying/posting there.

The worst of this whole thing is not being able to sleep at night and the tremendous neck & head pain.

Thanks for you help so far - I'm sure I'll be posting a lot over the coming months.
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Who is the dumbass who suggests using another "opiate" to taper off fioricet?  hahahahah  Is this "The Gong Show" or what? Fioricet is NOT even remotely related to opiates!! And using Xanax is so highly addictive, even doctors advise using valium over that for tapering anxiety! Puhleeeeeessssss!
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Hey Roxxy,

I'm another fiorinal addict & I just wanted to tell you to IGNORE the advice given by B---S--TSills re: "switching to another opiate" to detox.  

Right now I'm so angry at what she advised you my hands are shaking!  Thomas' had it nailed in his post.  YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT & CAN NOT GO COLD TURKEY OFF ESGIC/FIORCET.  This drug is NOT an opiate but a barbituate in the sedative/hypnotic category.  Opiates and barbituates are like apples and oranges & an opiate will not prevent the dangerous withdrawal associated with barbituates.

There's a group of us who were/are all in the same boat as you & most of us go to neurologist/headache specialists who detox us off very slowly.  There's no hard & fast formula but some people decrease 1 tablet per day - or 7 a wk. - every 2 wks.  Even that's a struggle as fiorcet stays in the body from 2-6 mos.  Additionally, 3 of us here are using neurontin to help with withdrawal symptoms & headache relief.  Much to all our surprise, it has helped.

I've decreased from 15 F plain a day to 6 in about 2 yrs.
JR has gine from 20 F, mostly with codeine a day to 6 Plain in about 9 mos.
I can't remember Kat & Golden's consumption!

Roxxy, it is VERY important you find a doctor who will work with you on a slow detox.  If headaches are a serious problem, a neurologist/headache specialist might be the person, or an addictionologist.  Going slow minimizes the withdrawal symptoms which are rather unpleasant, to say the least!

We have a really terrific, supportive gang of fiorinal addicts ;-) on another forum & we'd love to have you join us but I don't want to put up the forum site as we have a know-it-nothing who might intrude on our safe haven.  However, I will find a way to get you the info. if you're interested.  In the meantime, feel free to ask any questions, stay strong and IGNORE any "advice" BSills offers you.   Her goddamn "advice" could have killed you & I'm not kidding.
  
Best,

Dancing in the Dark
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For what it's worth, I had major stomach surgery a few years ago (unrelated to my Fiorinal problem).  I couldn't take anything by moith for 7 days, so - no Fioricet (there is no exact IV form).  After just 48 hours, and being on very high doses of Morphine, I went into barbituate withdrawal because of all the Fioricet/Fiorinal I had been taking - right up to the day of surgery!  I was seeing things that weren't there, and not seeing things that were, I was trying to espcape from the hospital, despite being on a bunch of IV's, wires and other tubes.

It got so bad that they first tried tying me down to my bed (I was hallucinating real bad) and increasing the Morphine and adding Addivan (none of this helped).

Finally, they gave me something to induce a coma, put me on a ventillator and gave me another IV drug to paralyze my voluntary muscles so I couldn't move.  I was out cold.  I was kept this way for 6 days.

Finally, they brought me out of the coma, took off the ventilator and started me back on Fioricet, two every 4 hours.  Within 12 hours, I was back to "normal" again, and was released two days later.

How sad is that?  So much for any theories that Opiates can help with Fiorinal/cet withdrawal!!!  They are two very different addictions, apples and oranges, etc.

Roxxy....if you are having trouble sleeping at night, and withdrawing, have your doc prescrive Neurontin - it's great, and no side effects.

JR

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JR - I can't believe you went through such a horrific experience! I don't think you ever shared that with us before on the fiorinal threads. It is something that everyone addicted to fiorinal/cet should read ASAP!!  

The 1st time I went cold turkey off fiorinal 2 yrs. ago (10/day to 0) I was deathly sick for 1 day and for 4 days I hallucinated 24/7 - no sleep EVER and heard music playing (sort of like rap music) and sometimes a popular song being played in my head over and over until I almost went bananas! I saw black crawly things everywhere and tried to swat phantom spiders off my arms & legs while watching TV! That's when I relapsed and took a few fiorinals and it all stopped. I went so far as to ask my husband why my radio in my car won't shut off - I heard music playing ALL THE TIME!!! That's enough to scare the s--- out of anyone!

If anyone is addicted to this ****, they need to read your post in case they are having elective surgery or musthave surgery! You were lucky you didn't die! We're so lucky you didn't! Luv, Kat
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When I read your post JR, I could only think, this guy should write a book.  Most definitely.  Hell, use a pseudonym!

What you went thru is truly horrifying & Kat, while I'd heard yours before, it still brings on a chill.

OK, true confessions time.

Almost 2 yrs. ago when I was on 15+ a day, I was so out of it I usually put them somewhere I couldn't find, or took them all at once, or heaven knows.  I was so confused, I never knew what day of the wk. it was, even if I'd just looked at the calendar.  In looking back, ppl often looked at me strangely, even at the grocery store.  Probably because it would take me 15 min. to unpack 5 items from my basket.  And as far as paying???  Cash?  Huh?  ATM?  Can't remember my PIN.  

Around that time I had 4 very intriguing, at-home conversations with people that weren't there, especially the woman in the magazine ad I'd obviously glanced at just before I drifted off into the land of dreamy dreams.  At that pt., I asked my b.p. specialist/pharmacology how to detox & he recommended my current GP & I cut down a bit before I saw him.  Thankfully, I've had no more incidents except for those 4, tho there may have been more!
Pity, I didn't get to pow wow with Woolf, Dante, Twain, Virgil, Aurelius, Camus....well, lots of people!  My subconscious brought forth an altogether boring lot!!!

I think the world of my GP & finally & most sheepishly admitted what had happened & what the hell?  Was it because I was a writer & thus insane as arteeests are supposed to be??  He laughed & said, "Hell, no, it was all that damn F you were on.  I'd have been hallucinating on that amt.!"  

We should start a new thread called, "Insane Moments".

Love to you both & I'm so sorry for what you went thru.  That was MUCH worse than my gift from F.

Luv,
Joods
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Well, that was scary stuff JR. Really scary!!!

I haven't had hallucinations (yet), but I can say that when I went cold turkey the first time I almost died - I know it.  I couldn't see, my head was pounding and I had to crawl to the bathroom. I tried to take a shower, but I fell and had to take a bath where I almost drowned. My husband had to sit on the side of the tub and help me.  How pathetic am I?

We live in an area where there are a lot of doves. Usually, a nice thing. They kept cooing and I yelled out "HELP!!!!!!" as loud as I could like a mental patient.  My husband came running and I said "Make them stop PLEASE!!!" He asked "Make what stop?"  I told him it was the doves and I couldn't take it anymore.  To this day they still kinda freak me out.

He took me to the one of my many Doctors I had seen and I told him, if he didn't give me something he wouldn't see me next week alive because I was so bad off.  Then he gave me qty. 10 of the F's and said to take 2 and then go to the Neurologist.  I took 2 and I swear on my Mother's life in 15 mins I was back to my old self.  Then I went to the Neurologist and guess what he did?  Qty. 100 with refills for a year..........duh!!!  They got smart to that at the pharmacy though.  You can only imagine with my job how many I was popping daily :(
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Hi. Falling onto this site seems a devine intervention for me. For the past 2 weeks I've had this low level feeling of fatigue, boredom, a big pain in the stomach, want to-don't want to eat...until I take one F (generic butalbital), and all is well with my world. I want you to know that I need you all tonight. I want to be free from the addiction I've had since I started getting low back pain and migraines in 1990. I had my own business doing worldwide distribtion of entertainment vehicles, making bookoo bucks. I was poppin' F's all day at the office, and keeping everything going as the boss lady. Then one day at a big presentation I started hallucinating to the point where I did not recognize anyone sitting at my table, eventough I had known them all for quite a while. I went to the pain management clinic at MAYO, but did not see that I needed to apply the principles to my everyday life. I did not think I was addicted at that time. Fast forward to today reading your notes, I see that I have so many of the same symptoms as many are discussing, but I take only ONE-TWO F per day!  At the same tome I have been taking neurontin for just under 5 years. It helps a lot with the migraines and generalized body pain, but the F is F-ing me up in just abobut everything I do. I forget what I am doing somewhat often, I start a project with lots of zeal, then wonder why I can sit at my desk nearly all day unproductively daydreaming ....and feeling guilty for being a bum in a fog.  If I try to stop taking it things go downhill within a day or two. Feel trapped. Scared and alone. Have withdrawn from most relationships except the essentials, which I know is the addiction but I can't seem to get myself back on track. My mind is soooo foggy. I cant sleep at night, but am sleepy all day. So I do most of my faxes, correspondence, e-mails, etc in the middle of most nights in order to keep up with the daytime people. Thank each of you for sharing what you have. Call me stupid. But this is the first time I have ever seen anyone discuss this...EVER,ANYWHERE.  I have felt very alone, and increasingly bad about myself. I once hailed from the 'hood', where I could have found drugs on any corner, and I rejected that then; vowing that I'D NEVER be a junkie...and look at me now.
I need help. Someone to help me into the light so that I can put this behind me before I look up and find my whole life is behind me. Nobody knows this is happening in my life. Thanks for any good advice you can offer. KHEM.
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Do you think the Thomas Recipe will work for me in tapering off of Paxil (40mg day), Fioricet (1-2 tabs day), and Neurontin (600 mg day)??  I want off of all of these drugs. It started out that they were prescribed for severe, daily migraines, which don't have that frequency anymore. But now I'm just confused and mixed-up with all of these drugs in me that I can't stop without hurting myself. For example: I don't know how not to have a seizure when trying to withdraw from the barbiturate/caffiene combo in the butalbital aka Fioricet.  Please tell me anything you know. Thanks.

Khem (I'm a THOMAS too!)
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Hi (Thomas), the recipe is for opiate detox and doesn't really transalte for other types of drugs. As far as I know, the best way off the Fioricet is to slowly taper over an extended period of one or more months. As for Neurontin and Paxil, I have no direct knowledge about using or stopping them. My instinct would be to gradually taper off of those, too.

However, it is rarely if ever a good idea to taper or discontinue more than one drug at a time. The safest way is to taper completely off of drug A, continue with drugs B and C for a time until you feel stable, then taper off drug B, etc.

If I were on Fioricet, Neurontin and Paxil, I'd taper off the Fioricet first. The Neurontin should help with the headaches as well as any mild withdrawal. It will also help protect you from any barbiturate withdrawal-related seizures (shouldn't really be a problem with a taper anyway). The Paxil will probably help with withdrawal-related depression.

After you're off the Fioricet, go a couple weeks to a month until you're stablized. Then, slowly taper the Neurontin. I'd go slow and watch for any re-emergence of headache symptoms. If they return, I'd slowly ramp up the Neurontin until the headaches are gone. This may not happen, of course. You'll just have to take it day by day.

When you're down to Paxil, you might find that you feel pretty good just off the Fioricet and Neurontin and don't want to go off the Paxil. If you do go off the Paxil, you might want to ask your doctor about the best way to do it. Of course, the same goes for Fioricet and Neurontin. Good luck.

Thomas
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Thomas is right - tackle one at a time and the Fioricet first!!

That will be the hardest - I'm still at 8 tabs a day.  I'm really trying, but I don't have anything for the headaches.  At least nothing works.  I think the other pills they gave me would work, but I have convinced myself they won't work, so therefore it's a game my mind is playing.  

If you go to www.drugabuse.com there are a bunch of us there that talk every day.  You will read a lot of strings on it and learn from others.

I am very addicted to the feeling and being able to get things done on them I feel I can't do it without them.  I'm very sucessful as well and it seems to be a trend with this drug.  First you get headaches, then you take these pills (all prescribed initially in the early 90's) and now all of us are trying to kick it!

I know I can do it and will, but tapering is the best way and have someone help you.  My husband holds the pills for me.

Hugs - Roxxy
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Hey There,

Well, welcome to our estemmed group!  As Roxxy suggested, get thy butt over to Drugabuse.com.  Click on "Support" & look for our newest thread #3 - near the top.  The other 2 are further down.  We have an *amazing* group of very inspiring & supportive people & clearly, you do belong!  We are all struggling *just* like you.  Both Roxxy & Kate have recently joined & our long-time regulars are JR, Kat, Golden Slipper, Linnie Sue, and Pilot.  Further down the DA page, are our other 2 threads including a link to our old thread at medhelp, which I entitled, something like, "Found Our Lost MH Thread."  I would highly recommend you read thru as much of these as you can as it will teach you a *lot* about this drug & what it does to us.  Because as you said, there isn't much info out there about it.  Talk about it.  

Like Roxxy, I cannot agree more with Thomas' advice about detoxing off pills 1 at a time & to start with the F. I have 1st hand exper. with this!  I believe 4 of us are on neurontin since starting our more aggressive detox & finding good docs. We've all found N not only help with h/a's but the w/d's as well.  I know that feeling of being totally fed up & never even wanting to take a vitamin again but you have got to take it slow right now.  I wouldn't even consider trying to taper off more than 1 at a time of these drugs, of course allowing for a stabilization period before starting the next.

As to why 2 F's could be causing the symptoms, I have a few ideas but pls understand:  I have no medical training, just a lot of experience with this drug!  I don't know how long you've been at 2 but F sits in your body for up to 6 mos. so you could have a healthy,(so to speak) level in there & the 2 tabs are keeping you close to there.  Perhaps if this is a recently reduced dose, you're exper. w/d.  If you've taken a lot for many yrs., you've got a lot in your bod & just a small amt. keeps up the level & symptoms.  Another thought is the interaction btwn Paxil, neurontin & F.  I used to believe if a doc prescribed them, there could not a contraindication & was I wrong.  It *could* be, or the dosages, or your weaning efforts, details of which I don't think you've shared.

Pls join us over at DrugAbuse.  You will read your own story over & over...trust me!!!

Best,

Dancin'

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Ditto to what Roxxy and Dancing have posted.  I as well as the rest of us know alot about the dreaded F drug.  It is highly prescribed and alot of doctors just simply don't know that much about it.

I am also on Neurontin prescribed for me to help with the fioricet withdrawals. I was taking 8-10 per day off and on for many years. I found the neurontin helpful with the wd symptoms but not so helpful for my headaches.  I do take Imitrex injections for my headaches which are usually, but not always effective.

I also have been on Paxil since 1997 and know that you have to come off of it very very slowly. It is not an addictive drug and neither is the neurontin.  I would suggest tackling the fioricet first, it is the only addictive drug among the group and you are only taking 2 a day but believe me eventually the tolerance will build and you will need to take more.

Please join us over at DrugAbuse.Com just click on the support section and you will find us.

Take Care
Golden Slipper
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Sorry I just reread my post and realized that in the second paragraph it reads as though I am taking 8-10 neurontin a day.  That is not the case I am referring to the fioricet.

That is how many fioricet I was up to before I stopped in November.

Sorry for the confusion, I think my hands are working faster than my brain today.

Take Care and please post to us on the other site.


Golden
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After many years of migraines and tension headaches, on a whim I tried Botox injections on my forehead.  THEY WORKED!  It took about 2 wks to kick in.  On of my friends had heard from her plastics guy that a Pain doc was sending some patients over as a trial.  It is kinda of pricey and you do have to go back.  It is definatley not a onetime fix but it is not addictive.  Though I am not sure that they will help if the headaches are from WD.
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Is ambien a safe replacement for the valium in the first stage of this Thomas Recipe
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how do i get off of hydrocodon
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Taper off, cold turkey, go to a detox-rehab center, take Suboxone or Methadone for a short while. Now for more help, you need to start a new post and ask this question again because you are adding to a post that started in 2003 and most people wont look at an old post.
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