Aa
Aa
A
A
A
Close
Avatar universal

Thomas Recipe

DSD
Hi everyone. What is the Thomas Recipe I have read about here? Does anyone know specifically what it is and what it is supposed to do?  I am guessing there are many readers that would like to know besides me - so would someone please post more info on it.
Thank you
42 Responses
Sort by: Helpful Oldest Newest
Avatar universal
Taper off, cold turkey, go to a detox-rehab center, take Suboxone or Methadone for a short while. Now for more help, you need to start a new post and ask this question again because you are adding to a post that started in 2003 and most people wont look at an old post.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
how do i get off of hydrocodon
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Is ambien a safe replacement for the valium in the first stage of this Thomas Recipe
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
After many years of migraines and tension headaches, on a whim I tried Botox injections on my forehead.  THEY WORKED!  It took about 2 wks to kick in.  On of my friends had heard from her plastics guy that a Pain doc was sending some patients over as a trial.  It is kinda of pricey and you do have to go back.  It is definatley not a onetime fix but it is not addictive.  Though I am not sure that they will help if the headaches are from WD.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Sorry I just reread my post and realized that in the second paragraph it reads as though I am taking 8-10 neurontin a day.  That is not the case I am referring to the fioricet.

That is how many fioricet I was up to before I stopped in November.

Sorry for the confusion, I think my hands are working faster than my brain today.

Take Care and please post to us on the other site.


Golden
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Ditto to what Roxxy and Dancing have posted.  I as well as the rest of us know alot about the dreaded F drug.  It is highly prescribed and alot of doctors just simply don't know that much about it.

I am also on Neurontin prescribed for me to help with the fioricet withdrawals. I was taking 8-10 per day off and on for many years. I found the neurontin helpful with the wd symptoms but not so helpful for my headaches.  I do take Imitrex injections for my headaches which are usually, but not always effective.

I also have been on Paxil since 1997 and know that you have to come off of it very very slowly. It is not an addictive drug and neither is the neurontin.  I would suggest tackling the fioricet first, it is the only addictive drug among the group and you are only taking 2 a day but believe me eventually the tolerance will build and you will need to take more.

Please join us over at DrugAbuse.Com just click on the support section and you will find us.

Take Care
Golden Slipper
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hey There,

Well, welcome to our estemmed group!  As Roxxy suggested, get thy butt over to Drugabuse.com.  Click on "Support" & look for our newest thread #3 - near the top.  The other 2 are further down.  We have an *amazing* group of very inspiring & supportive people & clearly, you do belong!  We are all struggling *just* like you.  Both Roxxy & Kate have recently joined & our long-time regulars are JR, Kat, Golden Slipper, Linnie Sue, and Pilot.  Further down the DA page, are our other 2 threads including a link to our old thread at medhelp, which I entitled, something like, "Found Our Lost MH Thread."  I would highly recommend you read thru as much of these as you can as it will teach you a *lot* about this drug & what it does to us.  Because as you said, there isn't much info out there about it.  Talk about it.  

Like Roxxy, I cannot agree more with Thomas' advice about detoxing off pills 1 at a time & to start with the F. I have 1st hand exper. with this!  I believe 4 of us are on neurontin since starting our more aggressive detox & finding good docs. We've all found N not only help with h/a's but the w/d's as well.  I know that feeling of being totally fed up & never even wanting to take a vitamin again but you have got to take it slow right now.  I wouldn't even consider trying to taper off more than 1 at a time of these drugs, of course allowing for a stabilization period before starting the next.

As to why 2 F's could be causing the symptoms, I have a few ideas but pls understand:  I have no medical training, just a lot of experience with this drug!  I don't know how long you've been at 2 but F sits in your body for up to 6 mos. so you could have a healthy,(so to speak) level in there & the 2 tabs are keeping you close to there.  Perhaps if this is a recently reduced dose, you're exper. w/d.  If you've taken a lot for many yrs., you've got a lot in your bod & just a small amt. keeps up the level & symptoms.  Another thought is the interaction btwn Paxil, neurontin & F.  I used to believe if a doc prescribed them, there could not a contraindication & was I wrong.  It *could* be, or the dosages, or your weaning efforts, details of which I don't think you've shared.

Pls join us over at DrugAbuse.  You will read your own story over & over...trust me!!!

Best,

Dancin'

Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Thomas is right - tackle one at a time and the Fioricet first!!

That will be the hardest - I'm still at 8 tabs a day.  I'm really trying, but I don't have anything for the headaches.  At least nothing works.  I think the other pills they gave me would work, but I have convinced myself they won't work, so therefore it's a game my mind is playing.  

If you go to www.drugabuse.com there are a bunch of us there that talk every day.  You will read a lot of strings on it and learn from others.

I am very addicted to the feeling and being able to get things done on them I feel I can't do it without them.  I'm very sucessful as well and it seems to be a trend with this drug.  First you get headaches, then you take these pills (all prescribed initially in the early 90's) and now all of us are trying to kick it!

I know I can do it and will, but tapering is the best way and have someone help you.  My husband holds the pills for me.

Hugs - Roxxy
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi (Thomas), the recipe is for opiate detox and doesn't really transalte for other types of drugs. As far as I know, the best way off the Fioricet is to slowly taper over an extended period of one or more months. As for Neurontin and Paxil, I have no direct knowledge about using or stopping them. My instinct would be to gradually taper off of those, too.

However, it is rarely if ever a good idea to taper or discontinue more than one drug at a time. The safest way is to taper completely off of drug A, continue with drugs B and C for a time until you feel stable, then taper off drug B, etc.

If I were on Fioricet, Neurontin and Paxil, I'd taper off the Fioricet first. The Neurontin should help with the headaches as well as any mild withdrawal. It will also help protect you from any barbiturate withdrawal-related seizures (shouldn't really be a problem with a taper anyway). The Paxil will probably help with withdrawal-related depression.

After you're off the Fioricet, go a couple weeks to a month until you're stablized. Then, slowly taper the Neurontin. I'd go slow and watch for any re-emergence of headache symptoms. If they return, I'd slowly ramp up the Neurontin until the headaches are gone. This may not happen, of course. You'll just have to take it day by day.

When you're down to Paxil, you might find that you feel pretty good just off the Fioricet and Neurontin and don't want to go off the Paxil. If you do go off the Paxil, you might want to ask your doctor about the best way to do it. Of course, the same goes for Fioricet and Neurontin. Good luck.

Thomas
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Do you think the Thomas Recipe will work for me in tapering off of Paxil (40mg day), Fioricet (1-2 tabs day), and Neurontin (600 mg day)??  I want off of all of these drugs. It started out that they were prescribed for severe, daily migraines, which don't have that frequency anymore. But now I'm just confused and mixed-up with all of these drugs in me that I can't stop without hurting myself. For example: I don't know how not to have a seizure when trying to withdraw from the barbiturate/caffiene combo in the butalbital aka Fioricet.  Please tell me anything you know. Thanks.

Khem (I'm a THOMAS too!)
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi. Falling onto this site seems a devine intervention for me. For the past 2 weeks I've had this low level feeling of fatigue, boredom, a big pain in the stomach, want to-don't want to eat...until I take one F (generic butalbital), and all is well with my world. I want you to know that I need you all tonight. I want to be free from the addiction I've had since I started getting low back pain and migraines in 1990. I had my own business doing worldwide distribtion of entertainment vehicles, making bookoo bucks. I was poppin' F's all day at the office, and keeping everything going as the boss lady. Then one day at a big presentation I started hallucinating to the point where I did not recognize anyone sitting at my table, eventough I had known them all for quite a while. I went to the pain management clinic at MAYO, but did not see that I needed to apply the principles to my everyday life. I did not think I was addicted at that time. Fast forward to today reading your notes, I see that I have so many of the same symptoms as many are discussing, but I take only ONE-TWO F per day!  At the same tome I have been taking neurontin for just under 5 years. It helps a lot with the migraines and generalized body pain, but the F is F-ing me up in just abobut everything I do. I forget what I am doing somewhat often, I start a project with lots of zeal, then wonder why I can sit at my desk nearly all day unproductively daydreaming ....and feeling guilty for being a bum in a fog.  If I try to stop taking it things go downhill within a day or two. Feel trapped. Scared and alone. Have withdrawn from most relationships except the essentials, which I know is the addiction but I can't seem to get myself back on track. My mind is soooo foggy. I cant sleep at night, but am sleepy all day. So I do most of my faxes, correspondence, e-mails, etc in the middle of most nights in order to keep up with the daytime people. Thank each of you for sharing what you have. Call me stupid. But this is the first time I have ever seen anyone discuss this...EVER,ANYWHERE.  I have felt very alone, and increasingly bad about myself. I once hailed from the 'hood', where I could have found drugs on any corner, and I rejected that then; vowing that I'D NEVER be a junkie...and look at me now.
I need help. Someone to help me into the light so that I can put this behind me before I look up and find my whole life is behind me. Nobody knows this is happening in my life. Thanks for any good advice you can offer. KHEM.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Well, that was scary stuff JR. Really scary!!!

I haven't had hallucinations (yet), but I can say that when I went cold turkey the first time I almost died - I know it.  I couldn't see, my head was pounding and I had to crawl to the bathroom. I tried to take a shower, but I fell and had to take a bath where I almost drowned. My husband had to sit on the side of the tub and help me.  How pathetic am I?

We live in an area where there are a lot of doves. Usually, a nice thing. They kept cooing and I yelled out "HELP!!!!!!" as loud as I could like a mental patient.  My husband came running and I said "Make them stop PLEASE!!!" He asked "Make what stop?"  I told him it was the doves and I couldn't take it anymore.  To this day they still kinda freak me out.

He took me to the one of my many Doctors I had seen and I told him, if he didn't give me something he wouldn't see me next week alive because I was so bad off.  Then he gave me qty. 10 of the F's and said to take 2 and then go to the Neurologist.  I took 2 and I swear on my Mother's life in 15 mins I was back to my old self.  Then I went to the Neurologist and guess what he did?  Qty. 100 with refills for a year..........duh!!!  They got smart to that at the pharmacy though.  You can only imagine with my job how many I was popping daily :(
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
When I read your post JR, I could only think, this guy should write a book.  Most definitely.  Hell, use a pseudonym!

What you went thru is truly horrifying & Kat, while I'd heard yours before, it still brings on a chill.

OK, true confessions time.

Almost 2 yrs. ago when I was on 15+ a day, I was so out of it I usually put them somewhere I couldn't find, or took them all at once, or heaven knows.  I was so confused, I never knew what day of the wk. it was, even if I'd just looked at the calendar.  In looking back, ppl often looked at me strangely, even at the grocery store.  Probably because it would take me 15 min. to unpack 5 items from my basket.  And as far as paying???  Cash?  Huh?  ATM?  Can't remember my PIN.  

Around that time I had 4 very intriguing, at-home conversations with people that weren't there, especially the woman in the magazine ad I'd obviously glanced at just before I drifted off into the land of dreamy dreams.  At that pt., I asked my b.p. specialist/pharmacology how to detox & he recommended my current GP & I cut down a bit before I saw him.  Thankfully, I've had no more incidents except for those 4, tho there may have been more!
Pity, I didn't get to pow wow with Woolf, Dante, Twain, Virgil, Aurelius, Camus....well, lots of people!  My subconscious brought forth an altogether boring lot!!!

I think the world of my GP & finally & most sheepishly admitted what had happened & what the hell?  Was it because I was a writer & thus insane as arteeests are supposed to be??  He laughed & said, "Hell, no, it was all that damn F you were on.  I'd have been hallucinating on that amt.!"  

We should start a new thread called, "Insane Moments".

Love to you both & I'm so sorry for what you went thru.  That was MUCH worse than my gift from F.

Luv,
Joods
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
JR - I can't believe you went through such a horrific experience! I don't think you ever shared that with us before on the fiorinal threads. It is something that everyone addicted to fiorinal/cet should read ASAP!!  

The 1st time I went cold turkey off fiorinal 2 yrs. ago (10/day to 0) I was deathly sick for 1 day and for 4 days I hallucinated 24/7 - no sleep EVER and heard music playing (sort of like rap music) and sometimes a popular song being played in my head over and over until I almost went bananas! I saw black crawly things everywhere and tried to swat phantom spiders off my arms & legs while watching TV! That's when I relapsed and took a few fiorinals and it all stopped. I went so far as to ask my husband why my radio in my car won't shut off - I heard music playing ALL THE TIME!!! That's enough to scare the s--- out of anyone!

If anyone is addicted to this ****, they need to read your post in case they are having elective surgery or musthave surgery! You were lucky you didn't die! We're so lucky you didn't! Luv, Kat
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
For what it's worth, I had major stomach surgery a few years ago (unrelated to my Fiorinal problem).  I couldn't take anything by moith for 7 days, so - no Fioricet (there is no exact IV form).  After just 48 hours, and being on very high doses of Morphine, I went into barbituate withdrawal because of all the Fioricet/Fiorinal I had been taking - right up to the day of surgery!  I was seeing things that weren't there, and not seeing things that were, I was trying to espcape from the hospital, despite being on a bunch of IV's, wires and other tubes.

It got so bad that they first tried tying me down to my bed (I was hallucinating real bad) and increasing the Morphine and adding Addivan (none of this helped).

Finally, they gave me something to induce a coma, put me on a ventillator and gave me another IV drug to paralyze my voluntary muscles so I couldn't move.  I was out cold.  I was kept this way for 6 days.

Finally, they brought me out of the coma, took off the ventilator and started me back on Fioricet, two every 4 hours.  Within 12 hours, I was back to "normal" again, and was released two days later.

How sad is that?  So much for any theories that Opiates can help with Fiorinal/cet withdrawal!!!  They are two very different addictions, apples and oranges, etc.

Roxxy....if you are having trouble sleeping at night, and withdrawing, have your doc prescrive Neurontin - it's great, and no side effects.

JR

Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
JR!!  There you are :)

I already feel like I have made such good friends, just with the few comments I have posted.  

I have some posts on the other site to, so you can read them.  I replied to you last one to Kat, so I'll keep replying/posting there.

The worst of this whole thing is not being able to sleep at night and the tremendous neck & head pain.

Thanks for you help so far - I'm sure I'll be posting a lot over the coming months.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Who is the dumbass who suggests using another "opiate" to taper off fioricet?  hahahahah  Is this "The Gong Show" or what? Fioricet is NOT even remotely related to opiates!! And using Xanax is so highly addictive, even doctors advise using valium over that for tapering anxiety! Puhleeeeeessssss!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Why don't we all just ignore and not even ever so slightly acknowledge this "BSills" or aka "Braindead Sills"? This a-hole is obviously getting what he/she wants - wasted posts of pissed off people who all give tremendous advice. If people just simply IGNORE everything posted by this ignorant troll, then the posts can go on as intended: terrific advice from intelligent, caring people who don't have time to play mind games with hurting individuals who are asking for help. By even acknowledging this delusional fool, you're all playing into his/her hands and he/she is probably jerking off (pardon the expression) to all the feedback!  Love to everyone and appreciate all your support and advice!  Kat
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi, Roxxy.  Sorry I didn't see your posts sooner, but I moved over to the "drugabuse.com" board - go there, and click on "support" and you will find a thread called something like "Fiorinal/cet Adiction #2".  That's where our little group posts now.  No offense to Medhelp, but they have deleted and locked up our threads several times - a "space" problem I guess.

Anyway, I'll respond here to you this on time......

I am not a doctor or anything.  But, after using Fiorinal/Fiorinal with Codeine/Fioricet (Esgic) for more than 20 years, and taking as much as 20 pills a day as recently as August, and trying to quit multiple times, I probably know more than most doctors about how this stuff affects you, withdrawal and a lot more.

Up until September '02, I did it all.  An orthopedic surgeon started me on Fiorinal and Fiorinal #3.  He kept prescribing (way too many) for about seven years, then cut me off because he had been sued for over prescribing pain meds.  I went to other docs, then tried detox about ten years ago.  I was in a rehab/detox center for 28 days.  It was pure hell, they really didn't understand barbituate addiction, and when I was released, they gave me tylenol!  After about a month, I was back on Fiorinal.  Net, net.... over 20+ years, I went to multiple docs and got prescriptions then filled them at different pharmacies.  I had docs cut me off, went to new ones, etc.  I finally, a few years ago, started writing my own prescriptions and filled them for several years until I got caught.  I was arrested, and luckily I had a good lawyer and the DA and judge were great.  I got a "Filed without a Finding" judgement - I have to keep seeing my neurologist and keep tapering, and I am on probation for two years.  After two years, everything goes away, just like it never happenned.  Lucky!

Anyway, Roxxy, like you I am a succesful business person.  I have a very stressful job and have to travel a lot.  I have been married for more than 25 years and have three great grown up kids.  Somehow, despite all the F I was taking, I managed to raise my kids, stay married, and do pretty well.  I was truly a "functioning addict".  No one knew about my secret, until I told my family and doctor lsdt fall.

After I was arrested the end of August, I started to taper on my own because I was running out!.  I had an appointment with a new doc coming up in September, but otherwise no way to get more F's.  I tapered from 20/day to 12 a day in a month.  It was very difficult - I couldn't sleep, had musclle cramps and god awful h/aches.  Then I saw my new primary care doc.  I told him EVERYTHING.  It was the first time I ever did that with a doc.  He was great.  He immediately had me see a neurologist who specialized in headaches and pain med abuse.

The neuro agreed to help me taper if I only saw her and followed her program - I agreed.  She said she would taper me down by one pill every month or so, since I had been on it for so long.  She put me on Neurontin, which helps prevent/lessen headaches, and really helps settle you down.  The first day on it, I had the best night's sleep in years.  Then the next day, no hangover or anything.  My dose had been gradually increased and I have no side effects.  I am now down to 6 F's per day, and working on getting down to 5/day.  This doc gives me 10 days supply of F, then I have to call her for a refill.  I see her every month.  She is really doing a great job in helping me.

Roxxy, I feel your pain.  This is tough, but we can do it.  Please join our group!  Having been through it all, I can say that with only a few exceptions, detox will not help you.  You should find a good neurologist who is willing to help you through this.  If you go to one and he/she won't help, find another doc.  They should put you on a reasonable taper program, and they should give you something non-addicting to help, like Neurontin.  You might also need something like Immitrex for the "breakthrough migraines".  You should go to only this one doc, no cheating.

Meanwhile, or if you can't find the right doc, take Thomas' advice and have your husband help you thru this.  Set up a taper schedule and have him hold onto the F's, and give you a day's worth each morning.  If you know that's all you have, you wil be more likely to not go over your set amount.  Cut down by one pill per month - that's fast enough.  If you get h/aches in between the F's , take Advil Migraine (2 pills) - that will help.  By the way, a little secret from my doc - if you can't sleep at night, buy some Benadryl pils/caps.  You an get them over the counter at any drug store of supermarket.  Many have their own brand and you can get 100 pils for about $4.00.  Benadryl is an antihistime, harmless and non-adicting.  About half an hour after you take it, it make you tired.  Take 2 pills before bedtime.  They will help you fall asleep, and there are usually no side effects.

Roxxy, please join our group so we know how you're doing.  I don't monitor this board, but I do check the other on every day!  There is a lot of help and support there.

Good luck.  You are a successful bussiness person, and you can do this.  You just need some determination and a lot of help.  And, if you slip some days, don't panic - just go back on your program the next day.

I hope to hear from you soon, and hope you succeed - as I know you will.  Together, we'll all make it.

Best,

JR   (FiorinalJR)

Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
If you are doing a medicated detox, try to taper with a differerent, preferably weaker, structurally differernt opiate. If you still feel weird, go for a differernt, weaker opiate the foillowing weak- say Darvon -in the smallest dodes possible.)  Any of the BENZodiazipines work well.  I recommend Xanax or Ativan, and sometimes Teazapam for sleep.  But do not take more than it is "prescribed for", and try to take only what you need because of the real addictive potential of Benzos (Respect their power and danger).
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hey Roxxy,

I'm another fiorinal addict & I just wanted to tell you to IGNORE the advice given by B---S--TSills re: "switching to another opiate" to detox.  

Right now I'm so angry at what she advised you my hands are shaking!  Thomas' had it nailed in his post.  YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT & CAN NOT GO COLD TURKEY OFF ESGIC/FIORCET.  This drug is NOT an opiate but a barbituate in the sedative/hypnotic category.  Opiates and barbituates are like apples and oranges & an opiate will not prevent the dangerous withdrawal associated with barbituates.

There's a group of us who were/are all in the same boat as you & most of us go to neurologist/headache specialists who detox us off very slowly.  There's no hard & fast formula but some people decrease 1 tablet per day - or 7 a wk. - every 2 wks.  Even that's a struggle as fiorcet stays in the body from 2-6 mos.  Additionally, 3 of us here are using neurontin to help with withdrawal symptoms & headache relief.  Much to all our surprise, it has helped.

I've decreased from 15 F plain a day to 6 in about 2 yrs.
JR has gine from 20 F, mostly with codeine a day to 6 Plain in about 9 mos.
I can't remember Kat & Golden's consumption!

Roxxy, it is VERY important you find a doctor who will work with you on a slow detox.  If headaches are a serious problem, a neurologist/headache specialist might be the person, or an addictionologist.  Going slow minimizes the withdrawal symptoms which are rather unpleasant, to say the least!

We have a really terrific, supportive gang of fiorinal addicts ;-) on another forum & we'd love to have you join us but I don't want to put up the forum site as we have a know-it-nothing who might intrude on our safe haven.  However, I will find a way to get you the info. if you're interested.  In the meantime, feel free to ask any questions, stay strong and IGNORE any "advice" BSills offers you.   Her goddamn "advice" could have killed you & I'm not kidding.
  
Best,

Dancing in the Dark
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Dancing in the Dark :)

I found your other site already by reading many strings, so you can read what Golden Slipper & Kat said.

I'm waiting on the "big" guy now - Mr. JR.....hopefully he has some insight on the right amount to use at first.  I'm working with my Doctor now.

Yesterday I had 9 because I was so out of sorts and this a.m. I'm reallly in pain.  I don't want to taper too much, so I can't function.  My head is pounding so bad and yes the neck pain is horrible :(  

I saw the other posting that bashes whatever you had said on a string and I responded.  I never saw the original string.

Take care,
Roxxy
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
That would be: Temazepam.....
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi Thomas,

I'm glad you answered :)  

I can go the taper down route, but I can guarantee the Doctor won't prescribe them.  I think he knows I have a problem because the last prescription was denied and that's why I see him tomorrow.

I can't go in rehab because I'm the bread winner of the family. He knows the work issue, so maybe he can help me somehow. I think I was trying to dull the pain of my stress in the workplace the last 5 years.  I don't know and it's no excuse.  

I wonder if a "dispensing" Doctor can help me monitor this?  I've heard of them, but not sure how safe these Doctor's are.
Helpful - 0
2
Have an Answer?

You are reading content posted in the Addiction: Substance Abuse Community

Top Addiction Answerers
495284 tn?1333894042
City of Dominatrix, MN
Avatar universal
phoenix, AZ
Learn About Top Answerers
Didn't find the answer you were looking for?
Ask a question
Popular Resources
Is treating glaucoma with marijuana all hype, or can hemp actually help?
If you think marijuana has no ill effects on your health, this article from Missouri Medicine may make you think again.
Julia Aharonov, DO, reveals the quickest way to beat drug withdrawal.
Tricks to help you quit for good.
A list of national and international resources and hotlines to help connect you to needed health and medical services.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.