Thomas's DeTox Reciepe

[DocHolliday]

Would anyone know where I can find his formula. Also, thanks for the replies. For the last two full weeks I have reduced the "doses" I take per day. Going from at least 5 and usually 7-8 per day, I am now just "needing" to have some in the morning, afternoon and before bed. I also have reduced the amount per dose by a few pills. I have been reading alot of info on some Narcotics Detoxification Under Anesthesia clinic. Seems to me in a nut shell, they put you under for a few hours, and prescribe a drug such as Naltrexone for a week or two and thats it? Well, thanks for listening. P.S. Wiz, thanks for the support...Peace Out...Doc

[Wizard]

Doc, The first one is Thomas' recipe that I had cut and pasted on my home p.c. The second is pillpoppas recipe that I also save but had not used. I don't think they will mind me sharing it with you but they get the credit for the research.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz


If you can get yourself a week off without a lot of responsibilities to fulfill, and access to a few comparatively innocent drugs, only one by prescription, I can give you a do it yourself detox plan --- after which the meetings will mean and do a lot more for you.

Here's my tried-and-true do-it-yourself hydrocodone "cold turkey" detox protocol.

Supplies you'll need first:

As many Valium, Xanax, Librium or Klonopin that you can get your hands on.
--- first day off the lorcet, use enough Valium or whatever, to, if possible, sleep through most of the first couple days. Then start decreasing the dose until you're down to nothing in about 5 or 6 days. You'll have to do the math. The Valium or one of its sister drugs will help tremendously with the anxiety and, somewhat, with the body aches.

Around-the-clock access to either hot baths or a Jacuzzi.

--speaking of those goddamn mostly thigh cramps that seem to love to show up in the middle of the night, have that hot bath or Jacuzzi at the ready. Don't hesitate to spend the majority of the week in that hot water if it's what it takes to get you through it. You may be wrinkled, but you'll have your sanity. Don't underestimate what the hot baths can do to relieve the withdrawal discomfort. They really work. Heating pads between the thighs can help with those cramps, too, but not as much as the hot baths.

Brand-name-only Imodium (immodium) (over the counter at the supermarket)

-- if you're a normal hydro addict, you'll be getting the runs by no later than the second or third day off the lorcet. In my experience, it's an especially unpleasant variety. At the first impulse, take two or three and respond to returning urges with two tabs. It's important that you do it immediately.

L-Tyrosine (qty 50 of the 500mg caps) - an amino acid available at the health food store.

-- thanks spook for this info: chronic use of narcotics depletes the brain of several critical neurotransmitters responsible for well-being and mental performance and attitude.
Plus:
Bottle of 100 mg B6 caps

-- Spook says every other day, but my experience detoxing with this stuff says take 4000 (four thousand) mg. (8x500mg caps of L-Tyrosine) with two 100mg B6 caps every day for your "detox week" to provide your brain with the raw material it needs to replenish its stores of these neurotransmitters. Many feel the difference on the very first dose. ***Take it on an empty stomach, either first thing in the morning or at bed time. You can continue this regimen after the first week if it continues to make you feel good. I continue to use it every other day with very few exceptions.
Multi-vitamins (most junkies don't eat too well, so this one's just for good sense)

Anyway, if you want to do it yourself and have a chance of being free of all narcotics instead of getting hooked on methadone, one of the hardest to get off of, by the way, you might try my formula. (It's "battle-tested" and works!)
2ND. one,
you will not come right until you replace all the zinc/mag you have leached out of your body over the past few years - this is what 'hanging out' really is - it's your body craving zinc/mag (zinc stops cravings/magnesium stops depression). If you don't do this it will take up to 2 years to return to normal as the only other source your body has for zinc/mag is food and then it is in such tiny amounts it takes years to build up again. If you get a blood test done you will find your levels of both are way down on what they should be.


A typical tablet contains somthing like this:

Zinc amino acid chelate 75mg
Magnesium amino acis chelate 37.5mg
Vitamin B6 10mg
Manganese amino acid chelate 10mg
Viatmin A (1000I.U.) 300mcg

Grading your habit on a scale of 1-10 (1 being occasional use and 10 being long term methadone at 100 plus mg's a day) you should take the following amount for a period of one month then slowly reduce to a daily amount of 2-3 per day.

Habit scale/size - Number of tablets per day for a month

10 10
9 9
8 8
7 7
6 6
5 5
4 4
3 3
2 3
1 2
0 2

You will notice that I recommend you never go below 2 per day. This is because zinc/mag depletion was your original problem so you should give yourself an ongoing supplement to make sure it does not happen again. I now take 2-3 per day to maintain my health. I have had no failures with this treatment (everyone OK after less than a month) and have treated addictions (including my own) as varied as methadone and cigarettes. The cigarrete smoker reduced from 2 packs per day to just 5 cigarettes per day in a week without any discomfort. If you suffer any kind of 'hang out' just increase the zinc/mag dosage and give it a liitle longer to take effect (a week or so). Don't beleive all the bullshit about drug addiction you have heard - it's all **** - this is the real deal. The drugs themselves are not actually addictive but they do leach all the zinc/mag out of your body by increasing the metabolism of them creating a shortage that gets worse the longer you use unless you replace them while you are using in which case you don't hang out when you stop - you just come straight - this is true beleive me I have tried it as have a few other people I know and none of us sufferred any hang out when we stopped.

[Wizard]

Doc, here is a more recent version with a web site at the bottom that Thomas recomends. Again the credit is his for the research.
Good Luck, Wiz


Thomas'recipe:
Here's my re-print for the inth time of my cold turkey recipe for coping with narco withdrawal. You may benefit from just getting some brand name Immodium and stopping the runs. The runs leads to dehydration very quickly, which could be conributing to your general malaise. Check out the L-Tyrosine and B6, too. That stuff works on non-junkies as well! Good luck.

Thomas

Here's my tried-and-true do-it-yourself "cold turkey" detox protocol.

Supplies you'll need first:

As many Valium, Xanax, Librium or Klonopin as you can get your hands on.

--- first day off the opiate, use enough Valium or whatever, to, if possible, sleep through most of the first couple days. Then start decreasing the dose until you're down to nothing in about 5 or 6 days. You'll have to do the math. The Valium or one of its sister drugs will help tremendously with the anxiety and, somewhat, with the body aches. Valium may make you eat like a pig and, when withdrawing from narcotics, one usually craves sweets, so I'd be ready to indulge myself, along with some good escapist movies. That always worked for me.

Around-the-clock access to either hot baths or a Jacuzzi.

--speaking of those goddamn mostly thigh cramps that seem to love to show up in the middle of the night, have that hot bath or Jacuzzi at the ready. Don't hesitate to spend the majority of the week in that hot water if that's what it takes to get you through it. You may be wrinkled, but you'll have your sanity. Don't underestimate what the hot baths can do to relieve the withdrawal discomfort. They really work. Heating pads between the thighs can help with those cramps, too, but not as much as the hot baths.

Brand-name-only Imodium (immodium) (over the counter at the supermarket)

-- if you're a normal hydro addict, you'll be getting the runs by no later than the second or third day off the lorcet. In my experience, it's an especially unpleasant variety. At the first impulse, take two or three and respond to returning urges with two tabs. It's important that you do it immediately.

L-Tyrosine (qty 50 of the 500mg caps) - an amino acid available at the health food store.

chronic use of narcotics depletes the brain of several critical neurotransmitters responsible for well-being and mental performance and attitude.
Plus:
Bottle of 100 mg B6 caps

My experience detoxing with this stuff says take 4000 (four thousand) mg. (8x500mg caps of L-Tyrosine) with two 100mg B6 caps every day for your "detox week" to provide your brain with the raw material it needs to replenish its stores of these neurotransmitters. Many feel the difference on the very first dose. ***Take it on an empty stomach, either first thing in the morning or at bedtime. You can continue this regimen after the first week if it continues to make you feel good. I continue to use it every other day with very few exceptions. After a few weeks, I cut down on the dosage, though, as it can cause the runs at high doses.

Multi-vitamins (most junkies don't eat too well, so this one's just for good sense).

Take a look at this link. According to this doc, you also need to add copper, phosphorus and Vitamin C to complete the dopamine, norepinephrine. You might have to do some hunting at the health food store to find the right vitamin or vitamins to supply all this stuff. I got a pretty good result from just the L-Tyrosine and B6, however.

I also understand from another contributor that zinc and magnesium help replenish and restore vital substances depleted by narcotics use.

Here's a link dedicated to L-Tyrosine ...

http://www.mindfixers.com/pathway1.html

WARNING: This same site says to avoid L-Tyrosine if you're on an SSRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor) such as Prozac, etc.

[skipper]

hey: try to avoid the "naltrexone route" unless it's the only thing that works. There can be some very bad side effects from
this "easy" method to detox. stick with what Wizzard told you
and you should be able to get off no problem.
kip

[tylerdurden]

Hello,

Although lots of people on this forum give some great information on do-it-yourself detox I still think, and this is only my opinion, that the best way is to get professional help when detoxing.  I just was detoxed and there is no reason to put yourself through withdrawl that can easily be treated.  Remember addiction is a disease...talk to a doctor and don't be ashamed because they are supposed to treat diseases.  I know some people might not like having to pay alot of money to get detoxed but this is your health and sanity we are talking about.  I tried to detox myself and thought, "I would pay any amount of money to get rid of these withdrawl symptoms."  Luckily I only had to pay $160.  It is a relatively easy process to get detoxed now.  Unless you are detoxing off of methadone which I hear is probably one of the worst things to detox from.  The nurse told me people who come off methadone will feel really, really crappy for about a month...other opiate users will feel really crappy for a couple days to a week...then the worst os over, although you may have some lingering withdrawl syptoms (symptoms) for a long while. I still can't sleep that well!!!  

Good luck to you and I hope you don't feel too crappy during withdrawl.

Tyler

[DocHolliday]

You guys are GREAT !!! I guess I need to, or like to hear the support. I know that support is one of the "ingredients" to a safe and complete recovery. I'd wish they could give ya a little more room to right in here, to tell ya a little bit more about my situation. Maybe I can with the condensed version. Maybe I can start with a comment a family friend, which is a doctor at a well know rehab out West at a facility that I considered for a bit, that goes for about a 1k/per day. It's one of the rehabs that put ya out(anthes.). Well, he'd help me with some discount on the price(I think just a shade under 20% was final cost) still seemed kinda expensive. He did give me a list of other alternative places in various parts of the country. I'm up in N.Y.. Anyways he said after they "put ya out" you supposedly wake up PHYSICALLY not addidcted. Is this possible? Then he said I'd feel somewhat better, but might need something to take the discomfort away. He mentioned Methadone. From what I've learned from most of you, stay the hell away from that. Maybe he only mentioned this as a worse case senario. So after this treatment he said I would get some councling. Almost  came across as "if your addicted, theres a problem". No ands, ifs or butts. Is this always true? I know all cases are different. No two are the same. But this is where MY story comes in. I'm a 38 SWM. I was brought up in a middle class family, quite normal. I wasn't the perfect kid as far as drugs...ie a little pot, some drinking... But nothing long term. One issue might be my Mother passed when I was 15. It was sad, but I had a lot a support through family. I have only one sib. At the age of 17 my Father passed. Again, sad time, but was helped through this time through staying with family. After  a couple of years, I moved out West and partied hard as it was the early 80's. Was totaly recreactional, but I wanted to just get that out there. In February of '89, I was in a bad MVA(car crash). I was drinking with friends and the weather was bad, a deadly combination. I thank God all the time that no one was hurt. Except for me that is. I had a spinal cord injury, t-11, t-12..para... So, I know your eyebrows are starting to raise. But again, family came through. I have this thing about me, if a crisis arise's, I jump on it, try and solve it or learn to live with it and move on. I dont like being sad, I can't stand other guys I know that are in chairs and think that lifes over, the world owes me, can't live like this. I had 5 other guys in the same Spinal Cord Rehab unit as me. It was a room of statistics. Young males. Risk takers. 4 of them couldn't take life and checked out. Like I said, I like to deal with an issue and move on. I'm not sure if this is bad, maybe I'm really not dealing with issues, just putting them in a file and storing them away and forgeting it. I try and be honest with myself and don't feel that I have any real "issue's". What I mean is... I get a sense from others...your an addict, you got problems. Is this always true? I "feel" that my problem stems from needing the pain medication for Root Nerve Damage, by the way, as I have tried going, scratch that, lets be honest here, when I have run out and had to go "cold turkey", this NRPain I get, ouch, to relate the amount of pain to you on some sort of scale...When it hits...I forget about withdrawl. It has been 12 years since my accident, the pain started a year post-injury, have been to dozens of doctors. They see me in chair, and its open up the med pad. At first I didnt like the drugs. I played wheelchair basketball for a pro-team. I taught Water-Skiing. I talked to kids in schools about Spinal Cord Injuries. I couldnt, nor did I like the feeling drugs gave me. Which was usually, a lazy, kinda kick back feeling. Then about 8 years ago, I started dating a nurse. And once she saw me wither in pain one nite after I went to bed, she said, "You do not have to live life like that"... I went to a pain specialist in the Posh town of La Jolla, Ca., not that I dont love that place, but that was first time in my 28 years that I had Vicodin prescribed. I only used it when I need it. And today I know that when a change in my everyday routine, ie. being up in my chair for a few more hours than usual, will trigger pain. Like I said once I started the pills for the treatment, it went fine. Not needing them but a couple times a month. Then as the year went by, 1 wouldnt work as fast as 2. When you get pain in the middle of the nite, when ya have to get up in 4 hours, ya want the pain gone. So time goes by and eventualy I look back and there was close to 6 months when I never took any. Not a symptom of withdrawl. Although I think I never had to take more than enough for 2 nites in a row. Well, I eventually I went back to work. Again, a change in my routine. I won't mention the name of the company I run a franchise through...let's just say "You got Questions?". Next thing ya know I start having pain again, and frequent. Then the hook hits. One day, first time, I get a pain attack...No prob, take one of your nite pain pills...Damn, I never felt like this, no body aches or pains(wheeling around, pushing a 6'4", 240# dude for 12 years aint easy on the rotator cuffs, wrist, back..etc) and I had a real increase in energy. Kick butt, wonder drug... You know the rest of the story...So as I type here today: I have talked to the people at work that need to know, which by the way, still can not believe I was using a drug while in contact with me everyday. Not unusual? I also told certain close family members and a true friend or two. I have been given "as long as I need" by my employees. They have been real supportive in pitching in and keeping the calls few and far between. I think there is a saying or something that has to do with... you really find out who your true friends are when the **** hits the fan... Not that anybody that I have told has "bailed" on me... But it makes me feel good. So I have been trying to get all the bills paid ahead of time and take care of any foreseen errands that might be coming up. I have 3 people that have said " call anytime, even if it's 3:00am and ya want something from the store"... I'm trying to make this on my own, but I know I need some help.

So in closing... Anything that might be of assistance: Words of wisdom, techniques....anything is greatly appreciated...Gonna try a kick this...I'll peek in and check in... Wish me luck...

P.S.> Again Wiz....thanks for taking a part of your day to give a hand.

Talk to ya later...Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to get it out there.

Peace Out

Doc

[Witchywoman]

Hi Doc,
Just wanted to include my voice in the chorus of voices here of folks who are here to support you.

I'm a fellow addict..got hooked on hydrocodone after chronic back pain. Oddly, the first few times I was given vicodin (once after an apendectomy, another after endometriosis surgery) I didn't even finish the prescription. I just took what I needed for the pain at the time, and stopped when I no longer needed them for pain.  With my back pain though, it was a different story. Maybe because it hit during a time when I had a lot of emotional pain, I was more vulnerable.

Anyway, the theory that there is a root emotional cause for addiction is one that is controversial. I am a shrink, so folks like me toss these ideas around a lot. I tend to lean toward believing that some of us are biologically predisposed to addiction, maybe due to wiring in the brain that blocks seratonin and or endorphin production. I also think that pretty much every person alive has "issues" and emotional pain...some of us meet the addiction Dragon when we try to alleviate our issues, but not everyone does. I wish I knew the answer to why that is...if I did, I'd write a book, go on the Oprah show, help a lot of people and retire early! LOL

Doc, best of luck to you in your desire to get clean. I am still on the meds, 'cause of bad back pain (I had surgery a few months ago), so I'm trying to simply take what I need and not chase a high. It is hard. But you finding this forum will be one of your best ally's in this fight Doc.  The folks here are unbelievably wonderful. I'm glad you found us!

WW

[Witchywoman]

Hi Angelica,
I just wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you and missing you and hoping that everything is ok, since you haven't posted in a while.

:-)

WW

[Witchywoman]

Jenny,
I'm just wanting you to know that you are on my mind, and I"m sending you healing energy and strength, hoping that you are doing ok.  Please know that we are with you, even when you aren't able to post.

lots of love,
WW

[DocHolliday]

Gotta a ?. If or when I beat this, I know the pain will come back. So what is the solution for it? Do I go back on Vic's or will my tolerence be just too high. Or what other pain med's are recomended. I know that any narcotic can be addicting, but I have to worry about Vic's because I'm a para and need to keep an eye out for my liver. So what other "fillers" are in say Percocet or Oxy. I dont think Oxy would be that helpful, because I need the immediate relief, rather than a time release. I have been to dozens of doctors and tried all sorts of non-narcotic pills, with no help. I am still willing to try anything, but I might not be seeing an...as up to date doctor as I should? Thanks for the reply...
Peace Out...
Doc...

[jennyfla]

I'm here, and alive, but in the shadows!!!
i'm not doing well with my quitting, etc. etc.
i'm still using, cut down quite abit, but just couldn't take the cold turkey with all the demands of the kids and the 'new' husband who is lost in his new world.
he is going to meetings, which is wonderful, went on a job interview today, and got the job.  it will involve traveling to south america, carribean, mexico all over the place... he even got a company vehicle!!!
He still looks so lost, and i know it will take time.
If he knew what i was doing, he would be heartbroken.
I am trying to find the strength, but i can't confess because i don't want to push him into relaspe.  This is so very hard!
I will try harder tomorrow.
Lv Jenny

[skipper]

jenny:
it's 3:00 am cst. I've been awake since 1:oo am. one of my neck
pain nights. went off oxy-c last sunday. My pain doc cut me back
to 30 mgs bid. anything under 40 just won't work--so i thought
**** it and quit again. My pain councelor will be real unhappy
with me as i promised him i'ld not do this on and off **** any
more.
Jenny, my heart goes out to you and the rough time your having
cleaning up your hand. Have you considered Buprenrphine detox?
I don't know much about it, but have heard real positive reports on this forum and else where. Perhaps even following up with a nal-trexone pellet inserted sub-q. the naltrzone sub-q is rather radical, but it would buy you 3 months of clean time, without the
option of backing out. i don't really like the idea of "running
someone elses program," so i'll just shutup about it from here on. it really tears me up to see the difficulty your having though.

when i was really strung out on heroin my world just seemed to
shrink down to me (ugh), my hypo, my spoon, and nothing else. the
smaller my world became the more desperate i became, until one day the gun in my mouth seemed the only option. Jenny, your world has chidren and a husband, something mine didn't have at that time. please don't let things go that far, as it is not an option available to you!

i could always find many reasion to keep on using, and so will
you. there is only one reasion to quit--because you can't go any
longer in an ever shrinking world! You, your children,& your
recently clean husband are in my prayers...

need all of the people (you too) on this forum
kip

[bigg0]

Hey Jenny

If you plan to do it at home you may want to consider an outpatient rehab that dispenses buprenex. I went to Dr. Gooberman in NJ (What an A-Hole) after I could deal with the pain after my back surgery. It made it a lot easier but after starting physical therapy I relapsed.And the good Dr. wanted 250.00 to dispense more buprenex. Which I can not afford after spending all my money on Dr's and pills. Like I said the clonidine and baclofen helped but either way you are gonna feel like something sucked the life out of you.I wanted to try Thomas' recipe but I started taking zoloft and they warn you not to. I am on day five of withdrawal and I feel the worst is over actually got up and went to therapy today. I wish you the best of luck and God Bless

[Witchywoman]

I understand your dillema, and am in a similar situation, as are many here.
I've been wracking my brains for a while now trying to figure out how to use pain medication responsibly.  Many of the folks on this forum have helped me to validate my real need for pain relief, and start structuring my med use so that I am taking only what is needed for the pain, not one pill more to chase that elusive high.

Narcotics are the only thing that work on my pain.  Like you, I've tried other kinds of pain relievers, but none of them work. Have you had a talk with your doctor about your concern about the tylenol in the vics? There are other options. Vicoprofen is what I take, it is easier on the liver than vicodin. The ibruprofen can be hard on the stomache after a while though. Have you discussed oxycontin with your Doctor? You said that you don't think it will work for you because it is time released. I found the time release part of oxy was really helpful. It worked very well on my pain, and because it was time released, I got relief from the pain without a high (I never crushed them).

Either way..the struggle to change your relationship with pain meds so that you aren't chasing a high is a very tough struggle.
We're in this togethr though, you, me, and many otheres..so with each other's support I believe we can all get through it.

WW

[Witchywoman]

Hey there Jenny,
Just remember we are here for you no matter what. It seems that you are trying to do one of the most difficult things in the world pretty much alone..so I have to agree with some of Kip's suggestions, to get some sort of outside help, whatever you feel would work for you.

I can still "see" your spirit shine through in your words, your desire to grow and get your life back remains...try to hang on to that spirit.

love,
Ww

[skipper]

Hey there:
Belive it or not, I actually got a great deal of inspiration from
your story. You are obviously a very couragious man. I have a very
good friend at work, in a wheel chair whose activity level is at
least 10 times your average person his age.
I spent 20 years, starting in my teens doing any kind of opiate
drug I could shoot up. During those 20 years I never once gave a
thought to what I'ld do if I ever needed a pain killer. I was in
recovery in NA for 18 years when an injury from 1970 came back to
haunt me.I went thru a windshield chin first. The ER Doc who put
18 stiches in my chin told me that later on in life I would have
real bad problems with my neck. Later on in life came in 1997. I
had 18 years clean and off the hell bound train of iv opiate abuse.I've had 2 cervical procedures in the last 2 years with an
attempted suicide inbetween. My last surgery was in May of this year. I've been back to work about a month. Next week I wiil find out if the last surgery worked. If it didn't there will be nothing
more that can be done for me, as there is very little left of the
effected vertebraes to put any more screws into.My advice to you
is to find a good pain specialist and clinic.I'm not real happy
with my pain MD, but I also see a pain psychologist who has literaly saved my life and marriage. Addiction and pain control
is a very difficult ballence to strike. It's sort of like sitting
on the edge of a big razor blade. I've recently noticed that when
my pain level stays at about 7.5 or above, addiction isn't much
of a problem. I'ld rather deal with drug withdrawals than this
level of pain. I will find the ballence point, it's just not going
to be done quickly and easily. My wife turned me on to this forum
after my last surgery. I doubt I would still be alive if I had not
found this place of magic and grace in cyber space. Stick with us
as we need you as much as you will find you need us!
kip

[cindi]

HI, I have read and re-read your post and from what I am getting out of it you still have pain,,,you have not found that balance..sort of what witchywoman was talking about taling the pain meds and not tryng tochase the high  a really hard thing to do...qustion?    do you still have pain/  i may have missed something in your post,,,it is really hard fro me to concentrate these days,,you have pain but are also dependant on the pain meds...can you life a productive ife without the medication? what then will you do for your pain?   this is a hard one,, I see your willingness to get clean..the one thing i have to add to these already wonderful responses is that you have come to a great place,,,take what these people have to offer you,,,but,,,in my honest opinion  if you nee pain meds to get through the day why not?  I have been in recovery since 1989 but due to aot of backproblems I need maedication to live my life productively....i have 2 small kids to chase after...a job a hubby etc..and if i should become dependant..which I sure I am,,,my doc said we can wean me off the stuff....anyway    i just wish you all the luck in the world......and keep coming back    we all need each other    love to all  cin

[susanlea]

See my post under Xanax about Jenny.  She needs us.....Susan

[cindi]

Tell Jenny to call if she needs me   I sent you my phone number  If her computer crashed are you able to forard any maaill to her?  but maybe if you talk too her you could give her my number

love cindi

[Wizard]

Forgive me Susan and Jenny, for once in my life I do not know what to say. I'm speechless. I was going to write that it will be okay and hang in there because we are all rooting for you Jenny, but I must be true to my heart and my heart tells me that nothing short of intervention can help this situation. A father/husband goes to an in house detox center and is gone a month and comes home, interviews and gets a job, finds an oxy and shoots it up in 24 hours back in the real world....Jenny, I feel so frikken helpless...... I'm the recovering addict in my household, my wife doesn't even drink a glass of wine, I don't know what I'd do if one of us was using and the other was trying to detox.......this is beyond my knowledge and experience. Especially with the children involved.......I can and will pray, I can, and will give you support and tell you that there IS HOPE, but I can't make you and your husband STOP....only you can do that.  As Skip says: I will love you anyway and there is nothing you can do about it........PLEASE JENNY....LOVE YOURSELF!
Love yourself enough to love your children. I don't know your husband but I think I know you and the Jenny that posts here helping the others is still inside you screaning to come out. The egg is cracked Jenny, only YOU can help yourself fly towards the light of FREEDOM. God bless and keep you dear. You will be in my thoughts as always and in my prayers as well......
Love Wiz.......

[skipper]

WHAT WIZARD SAYS ABOVE. JENNY THE MADNESS MUST STOP. ALL I FEEL
I CAN DO FOR YOU NOW IS PRAY AND HELP PICKUP THE PIECES!

I am going to love and care for you, and there is not one damm thing you can do about it!

[Kerrie]

Hi. After reading all you've been through I truly admire you. I had an injury in my T12/L1 in 1996 or 97. Mine was the result of a idiot doctor trying to do a bone marrow biopsy in my back instead of my illiac crest. But the point is,I was in so much pain I was screaming. It damaged the caulda equina nerve. I have so much pain from the nerve damage. I was wondering about your nerve damage.I was suffering so much and getting pain meds was difficult at best in my area of Tennessee. I had a doc of 8 years out of town but he would only write meds for a few days at a time due to being called before the review board. I have multiple other health problems that I won't even touch on because they don't compare to what you've been through. But I have a doctor now that treats my pain without problems. I take 7.5 hydro @ 6 to 8 hours and have oxycodone for severe pain. I don't have a problem with addiction but can't imagine being without something for this pain. I was diagnosed yesterday with Colitis or possibly Crones disease. The biopsies will tell us which it is. But knowing what pain I have with my back injury alone I hurt for you and what your going through. My daughter is an addict. She was put on MS Cotin last week by her neurologist. He says you can't get high and is something a person with chronic pain /addict, can take without problems. I just wonder if you have tried this or heard about it. You will be in my prayers. God Bless, Kerrie

[Kerrie]

Hello guys. I wanted to let you know I had my colonoscopy yesterday. The doc says I have Colitis. He did biopsies to make sure it isn't Chrones disease. He put me on a lot of meds. I guess at least it's an answer. I looked it up on the internet and the symptoms are deffinantly like mine. Diahrea 10 to 20 times a day with severe pain and cramps. It may not be good news but at least now I know. I'll write more later. Trying to play catch up here after being gone a few days.
   God Bless you All,
        Kerrie

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I've been kind of hit and miss around here for a couple of weeks due to my own health issues so please forgive me!  Kerrie mentioned MS Contin to you.  I've been given this med and I believe it is safe as long as you take it as perscribed.  Like OXY Contin, it can be crushed, chewed or even used IV to get the "big buzz". People who do this are asking for death!

I also used MSIR(morphine sulphate immediate release) for breakthrough pain.  The same warning applies as with the Morphine Sulphate Continuous Release(MS Contin).  

Like you, I've been through all the NSAIDS and have had no success.  I'm down to Vicodin again but my doc even wants to wean me off of that, too.  He is suggesting that Darvocet may be the next step!  Well, I won't know until I try it.  J.B.

Good luck to you!

[cindi]

Kerrie, my dear friend  how nice to see you posting again   Chrones disese (disease) is not a very plesenat thing but at least this si something that can be controlled ( maybe that will brighten your day) be careful as not to become dehydrated.....I have alot to tell you so later ater i do my usual stuff here I plan on sending you some mail      take care and i am so happy to hear from you  and myabe your daughter will do weel on MS contn  IF TAKEN the right way...it did help my mom.very well....love you girl   cin

[jennyfla]

Well my computer is up and alive, can't say the same for me...
i'm fighting this ****, and i'm not being very strong...
My husband looks like he just lost his best friend, although i saw a spark yesterday, he bought himself a Kawasaski Ninja 900.  We could hardly afford it, up to our ears in debt now, but anything to make his little soul alive.  He needs the excitement and something to just let go on when he feels the 'cravings'.  We had to drive all the way to practically ft lauderdale.  I followed him back in driving the old pick up, a '87 chevy with austin (5) and kayla (1) along side of me... by the time we got home, one of the darn shocks was hanging off of the car.  Thank god robert gets a company vehicle along with his new job... my car is in the shop --- NEVER BUY A CHRYSLER (i can't even spell it, and i don't care)!!!!
The kids start school tomorrow, guess their druggie mommy will walk them there!!!
****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  i'm not too happy with myself right now...  I took off all those days from work last week to 'do this', and i didn't... my husband is walking around with a sad face saying 'i want to get high, i want to get high'.  He wishes this new job would do drug testing!!!!
His new job should be exciting though, traveling all over (mexico, bahamas, VI, south america) working on 2M+ yaucts. Think i already told you guys that.
Well my kids are hungry, what's new, gotta go.
So much for all the 'help' for me.  Before my husband returned, i had all the kids to watch, now i have all the kids, PLUS a mental husband!!!!!!
THANK YOU ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR CONCERN AND ALL YOUR PRAYERS....  They mean the WORLD TO ME!!!!!!!!  I LOVE YOU GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:)
Lv Jenny

[skipper]

JB:
let me see if i got this right:
ms contin to hydro codone to darvon?
what is (was) wrong with you? I thought you had intractable pain
(chronic pain of 6 months or longer). Do you wabt to take this
direction and become opiate free ? If you do, more power to you.
If not, then you must go to the same doc i do. Dr. ******* thinks
that his patients should be pain free for a while and then pushes
them into the cold with a pat on the back saying " you'll just
have to learn how to live with it." After nearly 4 years of constant pain, my marriage, my sanity, everything in my world is
coming undone. One has to wonder 2 things:
has Dr. ******* ever been in pain & if so how did he treat it?
Has dr. ******* ever had a gun in his mouth thinking about ventolating his head to get some pain relief? (I have) some where
on this forum I seem to remember some co-dependant poster refering to methadone or some other narcotic as a "mistress." The poster had it all wrong, PAIN is the mistress. 20 years of iv drug abuse (mostly junk) put me on the hell bound train, an 18 year break of clean time, now i feel like some celestual  hobo, listening for the whistle of that hell bound train.

I'm currently riding the pain as best i can. in 2 weeks i'm going
to try yet another pain clinic. One advantage of pain is it seems
to short cicuit the jones (drug withdrawals). I hope that both of
us can obtain the relief we deserve.

need all of you
kip

[Schlub]

Today I begin kicking heroin at home. I've got Clonidine, Buprenex and Valium (as well as Klonopin) so I pray to God it won't be too bad.But I'm not too confident.

And here's where I need advice. Last time I tried to kick, I used 2 Clonidine pills and 2 5mg Valiums but I got these really violent leg kicking symtoms that scared the heck out of me. It felt like I was about to go into convulsions! The doctor said the valium would ease the leg kicking (convulsions) but it didn't. He also said the Buprenex wouldn't help with withdrawal symptoms but was only good for easing cravings.

Please note, though, that I'm weird: I've been taking 4-5 grams of H per day, but not by needle -- I swallow it (like the nastiest pill you've ever had). The point being, no one knows how much of that huge amount of heroin I've been taking is destroyed by stomach acid and thius how much of the drug I've actually been consuming, nor whether my extreme leg-kicking distress is unique to oral intake of heroin. Anyway, I'm scared to death, but I've got to get free of this and I hope someone can advise on these questions:

1) Are those leg-kicking tremors dangerous? Will I go into convulsions? Will maybe a higher dose of Valium (or perhaps even Klonopin) help to ease the leg kicking?

2) Will Buprenex, as some have said, actually help with withdrawal symptoms? What dose should I take (I'm not sure how to do an intramuscular injection so I need to squirt the med under my tongue)?

3) I'm planning to take 3 Clonidines every 6 hours this time (I have a blood pressure monitor to make sure I don't take too much). Is there any problem combining Clonidine with Buprenex & Valium?

20 years ago I kicked a previous opiate habit, and stayed clean for 18 years. I know I can do it again! I'm just really really scared -- is this simply the panic of withdrawal? -- and praying that someone can advise me.

Thank you for any help you can offer.

[Witchywoman]

Hi..I may be way out of my league here, but wanted to at least try to respond to you.
You've asked a lot of medical type questions, that I'd urge you to talk to your Doc about.  I thought that the word "kicking" to describe heroin withdrawal came from leg kicking symptoms in withdrawal, so I thought that was a known symptom. I've never taken heroin, so don't know how different it is from hydrocodone withdrawal.

Do you have a support system of people to help you through this detox? NA folks? Friends? A Counselor? If not..please consider it...as I struggle with my own addiction, I have realized that having nonjudgemental caring people to help is the most helpful thing that there is.

Have you considered asking your Doctor about safe nutritional supplements to also help through this? Some folks here swear by Thomas's L-Tyrosine B6 combo, and I've added zinc and magnesium supplements to that (be very careful with the zinc/mag...if you take too much it can be poisonous..talk to your Doc about it first and keep the doses to 50mg zinc and 37.mg magnesium)

I wish I could help more...good luck and please keep us posted on how you are doing!

WW

[Schlub]

Thanks for your reply, Witchywoman. Amazing how your one little comment had reduced my anxiety level tremendously -- I guess it's because you made me feel not so alone anymore.

Anyway, I do have a doctor but as you know, a physician's opinion about what "should" happen during detox is not necessarily the same as what *does* happen in the real world.

He said the Valium would relieve the kicking, but at the dose I took, at least, it didn't. Speaking of kicking, yes that's where the term comes from but it just terrifies me. And since no one seems to have posted about this symptom, I'm wondering if it's just me who is unnecessarily bothered by these tremors or if I'm having an especially severe (or even dangerous) case of it.

As for the difference between opiate pills & heroin, there isn't much, from what I understand, except maybe for degree of suffering during detox (and probably not much even in this).

I'm running out now to buy the nutritional supplements, thanks.

But if anyone knows anything about leg-kicking or burprenex, I sure could use a little advice (or dare I say it, support).

Thanks again WW, I'll keep you posted (as it were) on my progress.

[bigg0]

Hello

The buprenex should stop all withdrawal effects but you were taking an hell of alot of H. So I don't know how it wil affect you. I was taking 30 7.5mg percocet a day. I was using 1 mg of buprenex a day and had no withdrawal effects at all. I wish you lots of luck. And I wish I could do more for you

[Witchywoman]

I know what you mean about just getting a little bit of support helping so much. It's amazing, isn't it? This forum feels heaven sent to me.

I tend to log on when it is time for my next dose of pain meds. Reading the posts helps me to resist the Dragon's attempt to get me to feed it more of the meds than I need for the pain.

I"m still so discouraged at times though. I wish, so much, that I didn't have such bad pain, so that I could try to just go completely off the opiates. I know that it would still be damn hard, but I feel trapped with this situation. Because I did abuse them for so long, I need way more than I should to handle the pain.

I'm glad you are asking for support...it helps me to know that we all need it, that I'm not just "needy" LOL  that has been such a fear of mine, my whole life.  And guess what....I am needy! I need you, and everyone here to help me walk this tightrope, and I need to give you and everyone I can support, to keep my mind and heart open enough so that the addiction beast doesn't get control of the reigns any more than it already has.

thanks for listening
love,
WW

ah..a ps here...I noticed that the zinc/mag mixture didn't stop my withdrawals until I had been taking it for about a week. I think it takes a while to build it back up in your system..but don't try to build it back faster by taking extra, as someone here wound up getting very sick when he took too much. I think he took several thousand mgs of both zinc and magnesium all at once. Stick to about 50mgs zinc and 37mgs magnesium, 3 times a day or so. Let me know if you want me to repost pillpoppa's recipe for this, that has more specific dosages, and please, talk to your Doctor about it tomorrow when you see him/her.

[Schlub]

Thanks you guys. Yeah, I guess I was really up there with the opiates. I could drop 12 Vicodin right now and only get a mild buzz. So it's gonna be one helluva long night tonight.

God, I hope I make it.

And I hope I'll be back to post here tomorrow.

Thanks again for being nice to someone you don't even know.

[skipper]

Schlub:
Welcome to the forum! always room for one more!
I've been an iv drug abuser since i was 14. I'm 50 now. i've been
clean for 18 years. in june of 2000 i had two cervical disks removed and had the spin at these point fused. In january of
thia year the surgeon told me in one breath, "one of the fussion
failed- it must be redone after you quit smoking for 60 days
prior to surgery.This happened on a wednesday, by the following
saturday afternoon i had a shotgun in my mouth thinking about ventolating my head. People can think what they want- i just couldn't do another summer like the last one. well i got my 72
hours of suicide watch in the local spin-bin. This may I had the
fussion redone. It turns out things were much worse than the good
doc thought. the titanium plate he had installed had 3 broken
screws, and the rest were lose. This ass-hole told me, "i thought
you were just working me for drugs until i got you open and saw
how loose that plate was." He never bothered to apolgise.

sounds like you have a decent supply of drugs to detox. use the
valiuum or other benzo to get sleep. Taper off thes drugs (the
benzos) as soon as you no longer need them, as they can cause
a serious addiction of there own. i've never used the other drugs
so i don't really know about them. Just remember, an opiate
jones won"t kill you. you might wish you were dead but it will
not kill you. I would plan on about 10 days of real bad symptoms
before you start to feel beter. When your appetite returns you
will know you've made it! the last time i kicked, it was on the
floor of a county jail in johson county, Iowa. I was the main
featured amusement for inmates and jail keepers alike. I went
cold on this one, hell i didn't have a choice!

Any how: best of luck, things really get do get beter. it won't
happen on your time table, but it will happen!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[skipper]

Schlub:
Welcome to the forum! always room for one more!
I've been an iv drug abuser since i was 14. I'm 50 now. i've been
clean for 18 years. in june of 2000 i had two cervical disks removed and had the spin at these point fused. In january of
thia year the surgeon told me in one breath, "one of the fussion
failed- it must be redone after you quit smoking for 60 days
prior to surgery.This happened on a wednesday, by the following
saturday afternoon i had a shotgun in my mouth thinking about ventolating my head. People can think what they want- i just couldn't do another summer like the last one. well i got my 72
hours of suicide watch in the local spin-bin. This may I had the
fussion redone. It turns out things were much worse than the good
doc thought. the titanium plate he had installed had 3 broken
screws, and the rest were lose. This ass-hole told me, "i thought
you were just working me for drugs until i got you open and saw
how loose that plate was." He never bothered to apolgise.

sounds like you have a decent supply of drugs to detox. use the
valiuum or other benzo to get sleep. Taper off thes drugs (the
benzos) as soon as you no longer need them, as they can cause
a serious addiction of there own. i've never used the other drugs
so i don't really know about them. Just remember, an opiate
jones won"t kill you. you might wish you were dead but it will
not kill you. I would plan on about 10 days of real bad symptoms
before you start to feel beter. When your appetite returns you
will know you've made it! the last time i kicked, it was on the
floor of a county jail in johson county, Iowa. I was the main
featured amusement for inmates and jail keepers alike. I went
cold on this one, hell i didn't have a choice!

Any how: best of luck, things really get do get beter. it won't
happen on your time table, but it will happen!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[Schlub]

Thanks, Kip.

It really does help to know that withdrawal won't kill me.

What a mess I've gotten in. It scares the hell out me.

Anyway, thanks again. I'll keep you posted.

[skipper]

shlub:
a few more things;
did you know the old time hypes refered to people who eat hourse
heroin? Dross eaters. at least you won't have the junky's V shaped
scars in the crook of each arm. It's been 20 years since my iv
abuse days and my junky V track pattern still shows up when ever
i get sunburned. really cute huh?
hang with us, like i said there is always room for one more.
clean up your hand for awhile-whats to lose-don't like being
clean you can go out and get all your missery back with intrest!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[jennyfla]

I'm no expert, but the first time my husband went into detox/rehab 2 1/2 years ago, it was for herion, this past time it was for oxys/methadone.
My opinion (and this is only what i've heard), herion is actually the easier opiate to get off of.  It lasts the shortest amount of time in the system.  The physical discomfort shouldn't last anymore than 1 week, and you can be easily detoxed with methadone.  I'm talking only 5 days of methadone tops, no more, because you don't want to substitute one drug for another.  Oxys are a different story, but herion, i think you have a great chance of getting through it quicker than you think!
Can you enter yourself into a 1 week detox possibly.  It will be them mental part afterwards which will be most difficult.  Immediate counseling, and 90 meetings in 90 days in a MUST, and get a good sponser!!! If you are really ready and serious about quitting, you can do this and it will be quicker than you think!
GO FOR IT!!!!  It's very much within your reach!!!!
Like i said, it stays in the system least of all opiates!!!!!!
Good luck and be strong!!!!!  Please seek counseling because the old 'H' draw is strong, there's just something about it!!!
I haven't touched the evil 'H' in about 2 1/2 years now, and i snorted, shot, but never ate it!!!  Your stomach will love you for giving it up for good!!!!!
Good luck and prayers!!!
Lv Jenny

[Schlub]

Thank you everyone. It means a lot. I'm not feeling so good right now but I'll try to come back in the morning with a hello how are you.

And right you are, Kip. I've got the rest of my life to go back. Now if only I can just hold that thought ...

[Kerrie]

Hi JB. I think it was Skip asking if your trying to get off the pain meds and was this the reason for the Darvon ( or Darvocet).
I think Skip and I both read it's the docs idea. I had a (so called) doc put me on darvacet once for my pain. I thought it was suppose to be a good pain med. I was so upset when I found out how useless it was.But I tried to deal with the pain. I'm a Christian JB but suicidal thoughts ran through my head so often. No human being, heck, no dog, should have to suffer with pain like I have because of the stupidity of some doctors. You have some real health problems. Ask him if Darvocet would be good enough for him if he were in your shoes. Do you think you can have a good quality of life with the pain you have? I don't think you'd be on the pain meds if you could. Life should be worth living. Find a real doctor that isn't afraid to write you real pain meds for real pain. I hope everything works out alright. As always, your in my prayers.
God Bless, Kerrie

[skipper]

Schlub:
just wanted to let ya know i'm thinking 'bout you and praying
to god as i understand for your well being and victrory in your
struggles. Please remember this:
NOTHING NEW EVER HAPPEN IN THE WORLD OF DRUGS!!
except what happens to you after you get off drugs!
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[jennyfla]

I like that last comment you made, really gets me thinking!
:)
Thanks!
Lv Jenny

[Schlub]

Hey, I'm still here after my first night of detox. It wasn't too bad actually -- I used 5 clonidines and one Klonopin -- and that surprises me. I thought severe withdrawal symptoms hit within the first 24 hours. It's now 30 hours since my last dose of heroin, and it's still not as bad as I expected. I haven't even used my Buprenex yet!

Is this just the lull before ths storm? Should I expect my withdrawal symptoms to get significantly worse by tonight & tomorrow morning? Could the delayed onset of symptoms (assuming they are delayed) be dur to the fact that I orally injest rather than inject the heroin?

Adsvice is appreciated. And thanks again for being here.

[jennyfla]

well, to tell you honesty i don't know... but, i think you may get off easy, but tomorrow will be the true test.  If you still feel ok after tomorrow, just remember, it won't be so easy next time around (hopefully there won't be a next time), but addiction comes back stronger and stronger each time, and it's harder and harder to get off of!!!!
Like i said last night, herion is one of the easy opiates to get off of, but it's also very dangerous because you never know the strength, or what's exactly in there!!!  My husband OD'd on heroin once, just happened to be a VERY strong dose, and he almost died (had to call 911).
Anyway, I don't want to be negative, in fact, i want to give you encouragement, and let you know that i respect your strength, opiates are a tough one to beat!!!!
I'll be praying for you!
Jenny

[Schlub]

Thanks for your encouragement, Jenny. Yeah, some say the real withdrawal pain doesn't hit until after 48 hours, so I'll know soon enough, I guess, if this detox is gonna be a back-breaker.

Anyway, I have a technical question regarding Buprenex. When I need to start taking it, would I be better off to do an IV or an IM injection rather than squirting it under the tongue. All I have is an IV needle (thicker than an IM needle), but the package insert for Bup says you can do either intramuscular or slow (over 2 minutes) IV. Any opinions here?

Thanks again. It so great to know I have someone to whine ... er, I mean, *share* my feelings to.

David

[Schlub]

questiondsaz]]]]]


Hi all, I'm deep into deetox now.Convulsions shaking, v omiting
all the rest. I took 2amps of Bup plus cloniodione three houirs ago and now I'm in deeep ****. Dix the Bup cause withdrawal,or do I need a strtonger does -- maybe 4 more amps --to allevciatebthe symptoms of the lrage asmount of dope I was .onsuminmg (5 grams dasily by mouht).

Please help me advice -- I'm desperate.











question: K'm now deep intoI'm deep into detpoc

[skipper]

hey your still with us--good
about buprenex (bup) never used it but i would think im shot
would be better than IV shot. the reasion is this, have you
ever given youself an iv shot? Is there some one who could do this
for you? an im shot is easier to administer to yourself if you
don't have hypo expierence. Just jab your dose into large muscle
mass and squirt it in. It doesn't hurt to much. Before i shot drugs, i worked with a powder brained methadrine whaco named ajax.
ajax used to grab my arm and say "people who don't like needles end up loving them." I guess he saw my future. it might be a real good
idea to see if your doc line you up with a good shooter. Bup may
not work well or at all orally. Hang in there, we need you here
with us! the strength you share when your growing gives all of us
what we need most of all!
keep an andel on your shoulder
kip

[Schlub]

really mess up npp/ writhing and consultions.

BUT I want to say quickly to Kip that I think I love the dude

And not just come I'm San Fracisco

[skipper]

hey your still with us!
good!
how many days have you gone?
try to think of self detoxing as "pulling rug out from under one'e self." This is vastly superior to having some one else do it.

**** i've been on and off more times than a flashing neon sign!
after 3-4 days you will begin to see light again. when your
appetite returns you'll know you've gotten free. thats when this forum will be your lifeline.

wish there was more i could do for you man, but this is just one
death valley we all walk across alone. just keep moving toward
the light!

remeber: nothing new ever happens in drug land. all junkys have
the same old tired lines and i've heard them all, cause i've said
them all. You and the world will be new again, once you get your
hand clean of dope!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[skipper]

hey your still with us!
good!
how many days have you gone?
try to think of self detoxing as "pulling rug out from under one'e self." This is vastly superior to having some one else do it.

**** i've been on and off more times than a flashing neon sign!
after 3-4 days you will begin to see light again. when your
appetite returns you'll know you've gotten free. thats when this forum will be your lifeline.

wish there was more i could do for you man, but this is just one
death valley we all walk across alone. just keep moving toward
the light!

remeber: nothing new ever happens in drug land. all junkys have
the same old tired lines and i've heard them all, cause i've said
them all. You and the world will be new again, once you get your
hand clean of dope!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[Kristen]

I am on my second week of being off of large amounts of Lorcet and Soma....I am not necessarily feeling bad....but all of the sudden since yesterday, I am feeling so tired, fatigued and have a slight headache.  Maybe the lack of sleep is catching up to me, or is this something else.  Now all I want to do is sleep.....any ideas besides large amounts of coffee that I'm trying to keep down so I can go on with my daily routine....thanks for all your input...and if anyone has any ideas from their experiences....please share....thanks...kristen

[GJ]

Hey Kristen!

Today is my 5th day of WD from Percocet, Lortab and Soma. Last night was about the WORST night of WD in my life! I'd taken 2 Trazadone in the course of the day, but they didn't do a damn thing besides make me really tired/disoriented, but of course my muscular aches, heart-pounding and especially those g-d HEADACHES prevented me from getting any form of sleep, these headaches have been hitting me hard since Saturday, getting progressively worse.

So last night at about 10:00, when I couldn't stand it any longer, I took a Valium (which I'd been quite determined NOT to take) and slept for almost 10 hours. Today, the heart-racing is nearly gone and besides a few aches & pains in the muscles, I'm doing OK (despite the residual hangover of course). The headaches have subsided a bit too, but I know what you mean. Mine are these really sharp/shooting pains at different places on my head that come and go, but never fully subside. The only thing that kept me comfortable last night was laying on my left side in this odd position, giving me maybe 5-10 minutes relief, but my heart was pounding so hard/fast that I knew it'd either be another sleepless night or I'd have to just bite the bullet and take the V.

But with headaches, caffeine actually will HELP, so if you're used to drinking your coffee, keep doing it, because I can almost guarantee you that if you stop, those headaches will get much worse. It sounds like the lack of sleep is catching up to you a bit too, but I don't know exactly what will help with that except SLEEP.

Either way, keep it up and I'm sure you'll get through this just fine, as I'm sure the worst is already behind you. Try and get as much sleep as you can be allowed because that is the ONE thing that helps the body to regenerate itself during a WD.

Good luck, hope this helps somewhat ;-)

-GJ

[Kristen]

Thank so much for replying GJ...I'm amazed at how many people in this world are going through this same hell as I am.  I did take a xanax last night to help sleep and slept a bit, and maybe that is also the reason for my feeling tired/lethargic (sp?).  At this time, I just DONT feel like doing anything, except watching TV and I have so much to do being a single mom with 2 kids.  Its HELL trying to force myself to try and live a normal life.  I think at my 5th day I was still having chills and sweats that finally subsided after a week.  

You keep up the good work and any time you need to get something off your chest, just shoot....I've gone through this detoxing dozens and dozens of times, only to start again on pain meds....so hopefully this time will be the last.  I think this is the first time I've gone 10 days in the 10 years of abusing pain meds....

Thanks for your encouragement and if anyone has any other words of advice, I would love to hear.  Thanks~
-kristen

[Kristen]

I have been sitting here at the computer reading this forum and I am feeling for you....When you mentioned the leg shaking thing, I knew exactly what you meant.  I was a heavy opiate user (up to 30 10s a day) and would just lay in bed and kick and shake and kick...it was miserable.  Hang in there, this wont last forever....life is so much better without all that s@$%t in your body.  I pray your withdrawals subside soon....hopefully by tomorrow your feeling better....hang in there...kristen

[GJ]

OHHHH that leg-kicking thing!!! I really despise that. It's strange because sometimes when I'm laying down I feel I HAVE to move my legs, it occupies my mind or something. I just can't sit still at all, and today I've been moving and moving around because it takes the focus off of my headaches, and now that I'm sitting down and typing this, the headache is BACK! Ugh.

Anyway, that's a really noble thing you're doing Kristen, you have my upmost respect for tending to 2 children alone while coming off of all those meds, which is a lot more then I was taking. I was in the 6-8 range with percs for the most part, with 1-2 lortab (10s) and 2 somas a day, at one time it was also capped off with a nightly Valium and Xanax combo, but I stopped that weeks ago and had one hellacious night of coming off those. Stay with it, there's just no reason for this NOT to be your last withdrawal, because eventually the drugs have got to stop, right? ;o)

Schlub, here's lookin' at you kid! I'm sure you're having minute-to-minute thoughts of throwing in the towel, but remember that you won't die from this, and despite going through many days of dreadful discomfort, the rewards are SOOOOOOOO much more when you find homeostasis again, it may SEEM like a long time (hint: AVOID ANY NEARBY CLOCKS!!!) but it's better than doing it more and more only to find yourself further down the same bad road you were heading down. I'll send some serious positive vibes over your way (I've got reserves)!

-GJ

[Kristen]

Hi,

I just happened to be reading again and saw you replied....how wonderful.  How are you feeling, being your 5th day?  Physically I am feeling alot better, but I'm feeling that I cant accomplish anything and have no drive to do so either.  I have been reading on here all day, it seems, and I have posted a few comments to others and every thing that EVERYONE has said is ME!!!  No matter if its perc, lorcets, heroin, methodone, oxy....we all share the same qualities....How long have you been on this forum and has it helped?  Are you going to any meetings, etc...sorry for all the questions, it just feels good talking to another that feels the same inside as I do.....

[Schlub]

Well good nes, everyone -- I hopew. I am now almost 60 hours into withdrawal (beginning my 3rd night) ands things are getting better.

Last night was hell, especially the kicking & convulsing and not being able to sleep. I took 4 amps of Buprenex (2 in each IM injection site) but it didn't sem to help. Of course, who knows how much worese it might have been without the Bup? Anyone's guess, I suppose.

But right now my only symtoms are disorientation and extreme fatigue. No major tremors or vomiting or even diahrea. Does this mean I've past the worst part, or could the withdrawal symotoms resurface again. Anyone have a clue?

Anyway, I want to say how inspiring and comforting to read everyone's posts here and know that I (we) are not alone.

I especially want to thank Kip for his wise and kind words that somehow through all the pain managed to stay with me. Bless you, my friend.

Let me know if anyone has comments on my questions above. Thanks.

[GJ]

Wow that was a quick reply...

This fifth day is kinda going in & out, I'll feel fine for an hour and then feel like sh*t for another. I felt my worst when I laid down and watched TV for an hour, so I went and played tug-of-war with my dog (she loves playing that), and for some reason it really helped! It seems the more I move around and occupy my thinking, the less this damn WD irritates me. When I sit or lay down, I hit another bout of leg-twitches and headaches (like now!).

I found this forum only last sunday and everyone here is very friendly and positive, which is just what one needs when going through this ****. It keeps you honest the more you post too. I'm not going to any NA or AA meetings, but I probably will at some point in the future with my mother, who dealt with a coke-sniffing, pill-popping, lying, cheating (in more ways then one), stealing, manipulative, psycho of a husband for over 15 years and is JUST NOW filing for divorce from the scumbag. She also has a med habit of her own (started with tooth-surgery, you do the math). As a result, her will to live has diminished rapidly and I know a good meeting once in awhile would breath some new life back into her. I'm the kind of person who will quit something and not look back, although I've gone in & out of percocet use since Jan of 2000.

Before that I was a pothead and on Dec. 2nd, 1999 I quit it for good only to pick up another useless habit. This time I'm 100% DONE with the stuff, no question. I know that ONE TIME is all it would take to get me back on the downward spiral, and the way I feel NOW is the way I felt when I quit marijuana, a sort of "detestful" feeling that I never want to encounter again. I play a lot of mental games in my mind when going through times like this, like I will envision the VERY BEST time I had when taking the drugs (we all have these), then I'll compare that mental picture with a best time I had being totally drug-free and healthy (we're talking NO CAFFEINE, NO ALCOHOL, nothing). My only conclusion is that those "great" feelings under the influence were not my own, while the feelings from being sober were 100 times greater and infinitely more true and REAL! It takes a lot more effort to be positive WHILE sober after having an addictive background (which I do), but if you let your past eat away at you, you're only kidding/cheating yourself imo. Hope I don't sound too preachy, but I think the one thing that not enough people do when quitting something is to have confidence in THEMSELVES! Other people can help, but in the end it's up to the individual to do the real work at hand. If the self-doubt gets the best of you, there's no one else to blame but #1 ;o). I heard somewhere to "live deliberately" (don't remember where), and I think that might be the truest statement I've ever heard!!!

Of course, talking things out with others is a useful tool of course, so I don't want to sound like I'm this Mr. Do-it-Yourself, I think you know what I'm getting at. It's good that you have found this forum as well, because it might mean the difference between using and not using. I can't even begin to fathom the daily burden of a single mother though, so I hope you can take my words for what they're worth (a bit idealistic I'd imagine). Every time I've gone through a WD, it's like the hugest eye-opener for me. I suddenly notice things, like birds and sunsets and all the little things that I'd completely ignored with my drug, so I hope you can excuse my Tony Robbins-tone here....hahahh.....

Thanks for listening, I'll be here all night. Look for my new motivational best-seller soon along with a taped seminar of.........eh nevermind I can't back that up...  :-D

-GJ

[Witchywoman]

Hello all you brave detoxers...
All of you impress the living hell out of me.  I can't detox yet, because I really need the meds for pain (recent back surgery and it still hurts way more than pre-surgery). But a few weeks ago, I got so sick of my addiction that I tried to taper down. Before I started the zinc/mag combo, just the sweats and tremors that came on me after 7 hours or so where hard to bear. I am so impressed at your ability to tolerate the whole process. I worry so much that when my time comes to go off the meds entirely (and I pray that the pain will go down enough to let me do so)that I'll be unable to tolerate the discomfort. I am such a pain wimp!

I need you all to help keep me honest in the amount of meds I take for my pain, and I just want to be here for all of you while you go through withdrawals. Hell, I want to be here for all of you whether you are detoxing or not! But, there seems to be a bunch of folks here going through detox, so I wanted to write a specific post just to let you know that I am in your corner, rooting for you, and want you to know that.  Once you are through the withdrawals, they say that that is when the real work begins...I hope you all stay with us here. This forum is magickal.

lots of love, support, positive vibes and healing energy..
WW

[Kristen]

Hey girl,

I just read what you had written....and for me, it was just easier to plan ahead 3 days I had with NOTHING to do and just get it over with....tell your dr. your addicted, but are in serious pain.  For me, trying to wean myself off didn't work...if I had them, I would take them ALL just for the high...I couldn't ever take them as directed.  I wasn't taking them any way for pain.....I am a healthy woman....just my words of encouragement....you CAN do this....I agree the DT's suck, but the hardest part IS, staying away from them and staying clean.  I have detoxed probably 10 times the past 2-1/2 years and only stayed off of them for 30 days at the most....I'm here to listen and share....your not alone....AT ALL.....those drugs are EVIL!!!

[Thomas]

the benzos really help with the sweats and tremors, but you usually have to take a high enough dose that you'll need to take off work and avoid driving for a few days to pull it off.

Thomas

[Kristen]

GJ you crack me up....I think your sense of humor is coming back....even though I dont know you from adam....I think the addict in me is getting addicted to this forum now....(geez, I gotta have some crutch)hahaha

Anyway, I have started to notice things too now that my mind isn't all foggy.  I do know I can identify my feelings and actually feel them, even though I dont like them....but while using, I was just covering them up.  And, another thing I've noticed now that I'm not all foggy is there are things that people told me, things that I went and did that I dont even remember....how sad that I've missed out on the past 10 years of my life and I'm 34 now....but the good thing is....I do still have alot of life left in me, if I dont put that **** in my body and kill myself.  

I know for me, doing physical things got my natural endorphins going and that helped alot...keep yourself busy, stay active, spend time with "clean" friends and each day gets better and better....your definately out of the woods for the physical stuff....hang in there....

I'm sure I'll be off and on the computer alot to talk with my new found friends, but remember your not alone....

[IB]

Hi, I'm new to this.  Want to hear a joke?  I'm a drug counselor who got hooked on Vicodin.  I'm 48 hrs (almost) into detox and it's HARD.  The worst part is the depression,, anxiety and guilt.  I feel like sh-t for doing to myself and my family.  I've been hiding my growing habit (if I can get them, I'm taking about 10 pills twice a day).  I honestly don't know if I'm going to make it, even tho' I know I don't have a choice.  I feel like I'd do anything just to get five minutes of peace of mind.  There is no one I can tell, and I'm even afraid of NA meetings because I'm "in the business".  Life really sucks.  I'm making a lot of "urgent care" doctor's visits, and I know I'm heading for a crash.  I started again when I had a bunch of changes, stresses and problems with my teen age daughter, no excuse, but after 4 years clean, I thought I had it made.  Ha Ha.  I really
am scared, I don't know if I can fight this thing alone, but I don't seem to have any choice.  Blessings to all of you.  Pray for me.  Can someone remind me how soon I'll feel like living again?  50-60 hours is about as far as I've made it so far.  No bad physical stuff, even only mild diarrea (diarrhea).  Can someone help me???????

[Kristen]

Hi, I detoxed about 11 days ago and by the third day, I felt ALOT better....you are on your way out of the bad physical stuff.....but the depression does suck.  What has worked for me is making myself exercise, getting my natural endorphins going....dont think taking a pill is gonna make you feel better....it will for a moment, but then you will have to go though that horrifying detox AGAIN!!!  Your in the business, you know all about what your supposed to do, but I have found talking in this forum has helped me tremendously.  There are alot of very caring people on here.  Hang in there, your almost out of the woods.....

[IB]

Thanks Kristin

You're right, I do know what to do, but that doesn't seem to make it any easier!  I know I'm living in hell, and the minutes seem to pass like hours.  Doing SOMETHING would help, but I can't make myself get up.  Thanks for listening, this does help.  Congrats on the 11 days, I feel like if I get there, I can do it!

[GJ]

Hey there friend ;-)

I'm still WD'ing from the "closet drug" percocet (my 5th day, although I had thought it was my 6th) and today I had to drive around for an hour and a half in rush-hour traffic and I tell you, those headaches (which STILL haven't gone away) are the WORST I've ever endured! Like having a big invisible clamp tightening around my temples and crushing my brain! Looking at all the moving objects and ******* drivers almost made me go postal!

Hehe, it's funny you say you're a drug counselor (no offense), but I don't think your dilemma is anything to be ashamed of either, I personally know some state senators who are cocaine-addicts - no one is perfect! I used to work in a VITAMIN store, so one would think that I'd be "in-the-know" enough to stay away from all drugs, but addictive personality runs in my family and I've given into the temptation. Either way, a doc can tell you so much but you know by now how difficult it is to actually GO THROUGH a withdrawal. It's a matter of counting the seconds/minutes/hours and praying to ANYONE or ANYTHING that you'll make it through this OK, all the while you're saturated in a pain that is indescribable and inescapable. Not a pleasant thing at all...

BUT! I look at it as a way that the body tells you "well, you've treated me like **** long enough, I'm gonna teach you a LESSON now sonny jim!". And bygolly it does. No amount of words or encouragement will take your pain away, but it will help you to keep that mental focus happening eh? So imagine a row of scantily-clad cheerleaders rooting for you as you throw the winning touchdown pass........or something ;-)

Either way, keep trudging along and like Kristen said, after those first 3 days the fog will clear. Also, you can look at this as a way to better understand what your clients are going through as you counsel them!!! A "hands-on" experience if you will...

Take care and keep us "posted" ;-)
-GJ

[Kristen]

How are things going for ya?  This will be the 7th day now right?  It's all down hill from now, if you want it to be...Im STILL getting headaches and its been 12 days....I'm not sure where you live  (Im in Houston), but I think I've been getting sinus headaches and have been taking plain Sudafed....just the decongestant and it has helped ALOT!   IB-hang in there, you CAN do this and everything GJ said was fantastic....just hang here with us and get everything off your chest and maybe we'll be an inspiration!!!  hugs...kristen

[Witchywoman]

Hi ib,
I just wanted you to know that I'm in a similar situation as you, in that I am a psychotherapist. I don't specialize in drug and alcohol counseling, but I sure do work with folks who have addictions.  Like you, I feel "I should have known better", and am working on coming to accept that no matter what we know, or what our professions are, none of us are immune to addiction.

I got addicted after getting vicodin for both endometriosis , but mostly for the chronic back pain from degenerative disk disease.  I've had surgery recently, my pain is still very high, so as you may know from my posts I am working on not abusing the meds that I still need for my pain. It is not easy, but I'm actually doing very well with it.
I still face and deal with the temptation to abuse every time it is time to take the meds, but with the help of this forum and a few questions I ask myself every time I take my meds, I am doing well.

I hope my pain goes down in a few months, as my Doc expects it to. I want to be free of this battle, and get my life back free of substances!

love,
WW

[Schlub]

I'm baaack!

Yep, 102 hours into detox now from heroin and I'm really feeling pretty good. Weakness, lethargy, slight depression, but no convulsive withdrawal symptoms or pain. I never even got the runs.

So I just want to say how grateful I am to all of you who advised me and gave me your best wishes. You were a lifeline to me and I swear I would not have made it without you.

I have a question, though. My addiction doc suggested I might want to take either Bromocriptine or Naltrexone for long term maintennace to stay clean. Dooes anyone have any opinions about using either (or both) of these drugs?

Again, thank you all soooooooooo much! You saved my life, no lie.

[Kristen]

Yayyyyy, I'm so proud of all you guys....all of us are getting our **** together.....lets write if we're feeling like we're gonna use, so we can remind one another the HELL we went through to get this far.....Keep it up everyone....

[GJ]

Kristen,

Today is now day 6, since I stopped last Saturday. And now I think it's time for me to endure what you went through: the days of lethargy and not wanting to do ANYTHING. It must be some sort of "post-withdrawal fatigue syndrome" or something? Last night I had a bit of a breakthrough though in terms of those headaches, it was weird, I started to get the WORST headaches thusfar, so I laid down on the floor in my room and it seemed that in about 30 minutes, the "core" of the headaches was nearly GONE! But strangely, DURING those 30-or-so minutes, my eyes were twitching uncontrollably, I was hallucinating (seeing "frames" and trails), and was completely disoriented...after that I guess I just went into "idle-mode"???

Today has been virtually headache-free, but now something else has entered into the equation: I don't feel like DOING a goddamn THING! I feel like laying down and doing nothing - ZERO motivation. I can barely walk to the sink for a cup of water! My muscles feel like gelatin and my head (while it's not aching) feels like a lead balloon.

But I'll take this to those headaches ANYday! Hopefully they won't be rearing their ugly heads anymore. I'm from Albuquerque btw, so I don't envy you living in Houston in the middle of summer (one of THE worst places to be in the summer imo).

Thanks everyone for the support and all fellow detoxers, keep at it and we'll all conquer this **** for good!

-G

[Witchywoman]

Schlub!!!!
Gods I'm glad you posted..I was wondering how you were doing.
I'm so glad to hear you are through the worst of it! Good good job..now I guess is where they say the real work begins, huh?

I do have an opinion on Naltrexone, I'm all for it.
If I had the money, when my time to detox comes, I would definately take Naltrexone for a while after. I know myself too well. I know that my addict voice would try to convince me to "do it just this once", and the Naltrexone would be an ally in my quest to recover. I've looked into it, and in my humble opinion, the side effect risks are not that high, and the risk of living a half dead life due to narcotic abuse are extremely high, for me at least.

That is my opinion...I'd also like to hear the opinion of others who may think Naltrexone is not a good idea, to give me the other side of the story.

Take care Schlub and please stay with us. You've really done a wonderful thing for yourself and for those of us who will be able to detox someday, you and all who have gone through it bring hope.

lots of love,
WW

[Schlub]

Hey, thanks WW. You're so sweet to say such kind words.

So you're all for Naltrexone? But what are the side effects?

Also, I've just done some research on Bromocriptine, originally used to suprress cocaine cravings but now used also for nicotine and opiate cravings. There are potenbtial side effects -- nausea and confusion -- but there are also some interesting POSITIVE side effects. To wit: Bromocriptine appears to enhance sexual responsiveness to a similar or even greater degree than Viagra (only it acts on the brain not on the sexual organ). It also reduces obesity and seems to promote weight loss.

Gimme that drug!

Just kidding,  but I would like to know what anyone else things of either Naltrexone or Bromocriptine.

Thanks again to you all.

[jennyfla]

WOW, i admire all of you so very very much... keep going, it will get better (not from personal experience -- just what i've heard... i'm still being a whimp)
You are all such an inspiration to me!!!
I tried detoxing when my hub returned from rehab (he's using again :(  )  and i was awake at night, creepy crawling feeling, and i couldn't stand it...
something weird is going on now... i've been trying to cut back, lower dose was working, but the past two days, i've been in such a state of withdrawal even with the dose that was working on prior days --- what's up with that... not making it any easier that hub is using, but no excuse... just having a hard time caring for my three young children and working full time and going through withdrawals, i always give in, like i said, i'm a whimp.  I have a sense of fear now, meds are running out, and i don't have as much control anymore because dose seems unpredicable now -- what's going on!
Ugh!
Valium helps a little at night, just a half of a 10, i feel it most of next day... and i've noticed that once i get my ass out of bed, and move move move, the energy comes back at least, and i feel better in my head... but then the withdrawal creeps up!!!
Good luck to you all, and many many prayers, and i know you can do this!!!!!  I will get strong one of these days, it's not a choice anymore!!!
Lv Jenny

[Schlub]

6 days into detox and I feel really good.

For the first time in 2 1/2 years, I felt the morning sunshine on my skin unfiltered by any dope and I was so deeply grateful for that small pleasure. I feel like I've survived and now have a chance at living life like a real human being again.

Thanks all of you (especially Kip) for your kind, generous-hearted and wise support. I simply could not have come this far without you.

Now the protracted phase of the struggle -- staying clean -- begins. But I have no cravings and I'm so goddamn motivated (I've got a wonderful wife and newborn baby) that I'm actually confident I will make it with support from friends and folks like you.

Bless you all, and thanks again.

[GJ]

Kick ass Schlub! The world can now be your oyster eh? Today is day 7 for me and it might be the FIRST TIME in 6 months that I feel like myself again! The sun is bright, the air is fresh, the birds are a-singin'. I feel like writin' a bluegrass song, even though I hate bluegrass!!! HAH! Truly it is the LITTLE things in life that make it worthwhile...one can never deny the "appeal" of drugs, but the freedom without them is so much more boundless and beautiful!

Innocence is the best fix of all - a high that can never be bought or sold!

Cheers to you and your success my friend, you are an inspiration...

-G

[Schlub]

And the same to you, my friend.

My God, the power we have to help heal each other is a wonder to behold. There is no fate except what we make for ourselves, and here in this forum we are each of us making new healthy lives for ourselves. Bless us all; look at what we are accomplishing!

[Wizard]

Hey all I'm back from Vacation and trying to catch up on everyone.
Kristen, I read a post to me written on the 15th and I was gone till just now so sorry I didn't get to post back to you. It looks like you did get a great group to reply and I see a lot of new detoxers jumping in. Let me tell you and the others that you couldn't have found a better place to come to get the support before, during and after detox. It has been my lifeline for sure. Whenever I feel the need for the "Dragon" I come here to keep myself honest as W.W. says. IT WORKS!
Schlub,GJ,ib welcome and stick around as I think you'll find a turning point for all of you here. Sometimes it comes fast, sometimes slow but it DOES come.
To all my other "angel" friends here hello! I missed you all but never ceased thinking about you and praying for all of us! I'll catch up with you all as I can!
Power & Magick @ U all,
Peace & Light 2 U 2,
Wizard

[Wizard]

Blessings my friend. I see I have have much to catch up on since I've been gone. I was so glad to see your postings upon my return. Tells me we are still keeping each other "honest". LOL.
The wisdom you bring to the forum is very much appreciated :-)
"Knowledge" and "Truth" will set us free! I will catch up with you later!
Power & Magick 2 U always,
Peace & LIght 2 U 2,
Wiz

[Witchywoman]

It's *great* to see you back and I hope you had a wonderful time!

I look forward to catching up with you. I wish I could say I was doing great, but as you'll see from a post above, I hit a bump.
:-(

I'm learning from it though, and trying to figure out if I can handle detoxing yet or not. It scares me so much, I can't find words to describe the fear..even though I know it won't kill me, I guess I'm just a huge pain wimp!

love,
WW

[Kristen]

Well its been 14 days now and I feel pretty good, but I'm going through alot of emotional stuff right now and I need to vent.  My dad's in the hospital and my boyfriend and I broke up last night because he INSISTS I get a full time job, probably making less money, than if I was to continue free-lancing and making much more....and I can be home with my kids when they get home from school.  He stormed out of my house and told me he wont be with someone who isn't working full time....Shouldn't that be MY decision???  Shouldn't I be doing what makes Kristen happy???  I know this has nothing to do with using....but I'm feeling all this anxiety and abandonment and rejection and sadness and am scared....and when I usually feel all this stuff, i USE but I dont want to go there AGAIN!!!!  Maybe someone has some advice....what do you do now that there are no drugs to mask this pain.....HELP HELP HELP!!!!

[Witchywoman]

Hi Kristen,
Yes..I do agree that what you do should be your decision. If a person is trying to force you to do what they think is best, they are not honoring and respecting your ability to determine your own life. That is called Control, and it ruins relationships.
Just take deep breaths, and be willing to feel your feelings. We've all used in order to stop the pain of the difficult feelings, but what happens when we do that, is that we only freeze the feelings, we don't get rid of them. So when we go off the drugs, the old feelings melt and are there to be felt, as well as any new feelings that are there. Tell yourself that you can get through the emotional pain. Do what you can to listen to your feelings, and learn the lessons they are trying to offer you. Affirm yourself, and your choices, and get a lot of support. Write, talk, and do whatever else you need to do to process through the emotions, without using.
And you know...this forum is for the entirety of what we go through in our addictions, and that includes exactly what you are talking about!
Remember to congratulate yourself for being drug free..claim your victory and stand your ground.
lots of love,
WW

[susanlea]

You do what makes you Happy!  Don't let a control freak run your life.  I am sure trying to get off the pills isn't helping your mental and emotional state.  But speaking from experience here.....If anything he says or does to you, doesn't make you feel good or better about yourself.  If he cant' be there for you emotionally, physically and spiritually.  YOU don't need him.  He is just a leech who will suck the life out of you.  Do for yourself. Make yourself number 1.  He doesn't deserve someone like you.  You are honest, compassionate and caring.  Sounds to me he could take some cues from you.  Be strong.....Susan

[momma donna]

Hi , My daughter is at home with me and trying to detox from heroin.  She last used yesterday, 1/4 of a pill.  She has a couple of clonopins and I have ativan 1 mg and ambien 5 mg that I am hoping will help.  She  is very restless and feels feverish and just wants me to leave her alone.  I am afraid that she will convulse and tried to get her to go to the hospital, but she doesn't want to.  How can I help?  I bought immodium and motrin and some vitamins niacin, mag and calcium but she doesn't want to take them due to nausea.  
Any help anyone can give would truly be appreciated.  I am an RN and feel so helpless to help even being in the medical profession doesn't prepare you for this and seeing someone you care for in such pain and discomfort.  Thanks and God Bless!

[cindi]

I wish Brighty were here...she had a daughter with heroin problems...I know how you feel,,,I am also a nurse and when my kids get hurt I scream for my husband...lose all professionalism...as far as detoxing from herion..is there any way you can convince her to go into a safe rehab facility?  I don't know much about it...I did the demerol dance several years back and that alone was hell...Skipper may be the one to talk to....let me see if I can e-mail him for you  hang tight  Love to all  cin

[skipper]

hey there momma donna:
welcome to the forum(there is always room for one more!).
so your daughter wants off the big herion bird? your post
sounded as if you have the beginings. first of all: do not let
your daughter medicate herself!

now this next part isn't exactly legal so-- use your judegement.
maybe add:
injectable visteral
injectable codiene (or codiene tablets oral)
lots of l-tyrosine (use Thomas's detox formula)

give just enough codiene to take the edge off (1-3 grains) im
only. taper this off rather rappidly.
administer the visteral liberally. again im only. if you give
her this stuff with codiene, she may not realise when she isn't
getting any codiene, and just visteral.
save the tranks and sleepers for later she  (and maybe you) will
need them!

If your daughter wants to leave the house, let her. if she is
above legal age you can't hospitalise her against her will. if
she doesn'r want to talk or sleep or what ever, don't make her.
Momma your a RN so use your training and common sense here.

i won't bullshit you- both of you are in for the ride of your
life! Opiate detox (even heroin) won't kill you, it will make
you wish to die, but it rarely kills. monitor her blood pressure
and have cattapres (spelling) to keep it below the level that
her cranium might blow off. the first 72 hours are going to be
real bad. your daughter won't be lilely to walk off and score.
the following 2-3 weeks are when she will most likely relapse.
good luck and the speed of all the gods!
keep an angel on both your and her shoulder!
   kip

ps: post closer to the top, it makes your posting available
to more people--good luck and hope to hear more!!!

[cindi]

Thanks....You are too great.....love you all cin

[skipper]

momma donna:
helo to you and your daughter!
how are things going? please post to us and let us know- we all
care very much!
just one more thing to pass on repeatedly to your daughter:
NOTHING NEW EVER HAPPENS IN THE WORLD OF DRUGS, except what happens
when you get off drugs.
keep those angels on your shoulders and let us know what is hap-
pening- please!
kip

[liz36]

Even though I have'nt gone through the entire thread yet(but I will)  I did see the part where you wanted to detox yourself at home but couldn't tell the family(is this correct?)  I am in a situation very similar.  I'm addicted to Codeine and I have to get off of it.  I can't tell my significant other or my 16 year old daughter that I screwed up again( they have been through this with me 2 or 3 times before when I entered hospitals to detox) once for booze, then for Xanex, then for codeine.  I was on Librium for anxiety before my last detox and when I entered a facility for depression and to get off codeine, I was forced to get off the Librium too(it was horrible).  That was just this past December of 2000.  I ruined everyones Christmas!  My daughter was devestated.  I just can't bear to face her again with this and to go away and detox like before.  She has problems of her own, serious ones and I need to be there for her, I don't want her to know that i let her down once again.  Also, I'm responsable for taking care of her 78 year old grandmother (not my mother), cause nobody else in the family will do it.  So, in light of all this, i want to detox myself at home, but I don't know how.  I am going to Narcotics Anonymous meetings or AA meetings every day, but I haven't started to taper off the codeine yet. I wish someone could show me how to do this without my family finding out and keeping my sanity at the same time.  This is a tall order! The one good thing is I have Klonipin for the anxiety, because recently i started having Panic attacks due to stress and the codeine.  I have two different kinds of codeine pills.  One is called Panadeine which is like Tylenol with codeine, only there are 8mg of codeine in each pill, and I have a ibuprofen/codeine combination that has 12 mg. of codeine each.  Then there is the cough medicine I take that has 6mg of codeine per teaspoon.  I've been alternating with these three things throughout my day and lose track of how much codeine I actually take in 24hrs, and I am going to start writing it down.  My biggest fear is accidental overdose, but I still keep doing it and I need help badly.  Please, can somebody show me how to get off of this ****,  I'll even leave my email address if anyone who reads this wants to mail me any suggestions, and to benefit me with their own experiences.  Please help!   Liz      ***@****

[Wiseone111]

Hi there everyone. I have been reading these messages for aboutthe last two months. And I finally took the leap and I am in the process of getting off of Lortab(Hydrocodone) addiction.
It has been almost a week sinve my last full day on the pills. A week ago today i was taking 6-8 pills a day sometimes more. The wednesday following that i broke down and took 1-1/2. Since wednesday I have not taken anything except the vitamins, vallium, and stuff listed in Thomas' recipe. My question is this.
How long does it take for the weird feeling in my stomach and the cold sweats to go away. I really feel like i am almost over the hump here. Would just be nice to havean indication of about how long i hace left.

thanks,
-W

[lululocks]

hi my boyfriend and i have been using various opiods for the last 3 years, heroin, percodan, methadone etc. we are gearing up for our umptienth withdrawl (#7 for me and #3 for him) and will be getting a kick kit from a clinic (clonodine,anti inflamatory and valium) i have also stocked up on kava kava, valarian, and mega green vitamins. Right now we are using percodan but are thinking of switching to heroin because the withdrawl time seems to be so much shorter even if it is more intense. any thoughts or advice.

[lysah]

i am quitting methadone 40mgs. and 18 5 mg oxycodone a day. i took my last oxy. at 4 p.m. i am more afraid of methadone w/d from what ive read tonight about it. i have klonopin, and thomas recipe but i am scared. i only have 4 days to get it done. iam at my moms but my 4 kids get out for the summer on thursday. does anybody think i can really do this or should i get off 1 or the other, or just taper. i just seperated with my husband of 20 years. my kids 11,13,15 and 17 are depending on me to make the right choice with their dad. i need to be depending on God and this medication is not helping with clarity.any feed back would be great. i took 1 klonopin when will seious w/d set in? thanks lysah

[jessiepalooza]

I found out I had fibromyalgia and soft tissue rheumatism, pretty painful stuff with no cure..
I started taking Lortab 10 four times a day and have been doing this for three years...
I have been taking this mixed with an ativan 2mg's for anxiety each day..
so that's four lortab ten's and one ativan each day...
I can remember hurting , my reason for this cocktail...
I do know I am gonna hurt again, I used to manage my pain somehow before getting this prescription...
I have found that the hot baths for pain that comes from withdrawals also may help the pain from my diseases.. hmm we will see...
I am also taking five hour energy shots to help the blah feelings...
    
I made a decision to stop taking the Lortab yesterday, I went from 40 mg's to  twenty yesterday, today I am working on just five mg's and its 8:00 p.m. I have decided to take three ativans and sleep as much as possible, done in increments of course...
I have a question?
Do any of you experience this horrific cough during the withdrawal period?
I would love to take the ativan and sleep , if only I could stop the #@%$ coughing ...
I look forward to reading the post here..
good luck to everyone!  

[worried878]

The hydros are ok to quit CT...the ativan needs to be tapered...dangerous to quit benzos CT...u posted on an old post...a new question would draw attn to ur needs

[worried878]

I noticed this was an old post and re-read the contents...the thomas recipe is in the health pages...the "thomas" who wrote this recipe is no longer here on our earth.....just a reminder of how dangerous using can be.....but the recipe lives on

[itsthatgirl]

does anybody still use this? i could surely use some support..