To Forum Doc.- What techniques/methods can you recommend to avoid relapse?

[Rex1]

Dr. Horvath,

I hear horror stories of relapse and want to do everything I can to avoid this. Can you share any successful techniques or proven methods for us to utilize to avoid relapse?

Rex

[Chucklebug]

I am also interested in relapses ... I had a Vicodin problem for about a year and half (half of 2000, all of 2001), and I went into the hospital on January 3, 2001.  I was there 6 days and left clean ... I have been fine since then, but on December 19 of this year, I had a bout with pancreatitis (it's hereditary ... the pancreatitis is the reason I had access to Vicodin in the first place) and I took 2 5/500s (I had pancreas problems in April and I took about 8 pills over 3 days, stopping when the pain stopped).  But this time, I've taken 1 or 2 pills per day since the 19th ... I REALLY don't want to relapse, but the holidays had me stressed out, and I always get a little anxious when I have a break between semesters.  I am just wondering if I'm going to have withdrawal symptoms after taking about 20 5/500s over the course of 2 weeks?  I need to stop NOW.  Thanks!

[Rex1]

Thanks for the encouragment. Mind is better today, body is worse. Oh well, I'll keep plugging along.

Rex

[lisabet]

hee-hee - loved the "Aunt Bee" thingie.  Least you've keeping your sense of humour.  You're doing great. Peace, Lisabet

[saveyourself]

God Bless you, man.  I was really worried you were going to use.  Keep the faith,  I have had pysical therapy once a day for two days and I am going in the am.  It not only helped with the ailments, it was a majorhelp on my WD symptoms. Plus the PHT is so fine.  All I have to do is look at her snd the pain disappears.  Not lustly of course.  it is just like appreciating a fine piece of art.  I wrote you a more detailed post, please read it.  You were a major help to me in my early stages of WD.  For me if I can ever get my sleep pattens back, I will be so happy.
Sttrength and Honor
Greg

[Rex1]

Greg, Michael, T and Thomas - 11:00 pm on the 26th.

Deepest thanks to you guys - made it through another day. (see my post higher up on the particulars...)

Not sure if this makes sense, but the last three days were the ones I was worried most about, because of the specialness of the days, wanting to be with my family and not thinking about pain. It turns that the "specialness" of these days are what got me through, along with all of you here.

Also, I have been reading about people here with real pain, makes mine look like a pin *****. What happened to me? I was the toughest guy around, not the biggest, but the last one standing, you know? Bring it on!! That was me! Now look at me "my back, my back". How pathetic.

To the lurkers out there - quit now. Trust me on this  - quit now. If you have been taking them for two months, or three months, or even a year - just trust me - flush them all if you can. Or better yet, taper to zero and kiss them goodbye. Painkillers turn your life upside down so silently and with so much cunning and guile. You go to sleep as the Terminator and wake up 5 years later as Aunt Bee!

Man this was a rough couple of days, but I think the clouds are clearing a bit, although I have to always be on watch...

God Bless and looking forward to tommorrow.
(Return lines at the mall and no pain meds - a winning combo!)

Aunt Bee


a.k.a Rex

[hippy]

HEY REX , WHER EVER THERE IS AN OUT POURING OF THE SPIRIT
there ia s strong effort put forth by the diabolic.
i found in my early recovery to keep it simple.
take each day  and live in that day steer clear of the past and stay out of the future, it a just for today program.
as thomas said2 b-6 and 4 500 mg L-tyrosine really helps
a lot with pain and depresson.

every thing gets better with time, just go with the flow.
try not to judge yourself, because your doing your best,
god will do the rest.
try to get hold of a daily medatation book that is reccvery based.
don't make any major decsions.


I TELL YOU SOLEMNLY
WHATEVER YOU SAK FOR IN PRAYER.
BELEIVE THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED IT.
AND IT WILL BE YOURS,
SAYS THE LORD.
MARK 11:24

PEACE  !!!!! HIPPY

[saveyourself]

I am back, where are you?

[Rex1]

Hey bud, I am hanging in, battling the relapse demon. I haven't relasped, but I feel it coming and am trying to everything I can to beat it back.

I literally feel like my life it teetering on the edge of a knife. To the one side is partial freedom from this ****, the other is falling back to the bototm of that staircase I just climbed, hating every minute of it.

Christmas Eve, went to the Church, gave it to God, he took it and helped me win. Yesterday, the holiest of days save Easter, same thing. He won for me.

As for today, I don't know yet. Back is hurting like Hell and I have those Blahs Thomas always talks about.

Pray for me, pal.

Rex

[teeitup]

Hang tough bud, I wish I were as strong as you. I made 4 days c/t, 7 days with only 1 Es a day but the last 3 days I couldn't take the pain and have had 2 a day.

thanks for your words and good luck!
teeitup!

[saveyourself]

Hey Brother,

I am praying for you and remember, regardless of your back, you have enough time behind you to not choose  to take an opiate.  Hot bath,cold packs or what ever gets you through the day.
It is your brain and the demon wanting you to use.  I don't have the answers, I do know you can bear the pain for one hour. Maybe then till dinner time.  Then go to bed and read Romans,  Did your Dad deliver those vics to you?  If so, that is why your mind is telling you your back hurts. Only my opinion.  I just got back from pyhisical therapy, It has really helped with my withdrawls and my legitamate pain.  I have got to pick up a friend, we are going to a NA meeting.  I will write you as soon as I get back.  If you haven't used already,please don't use until we talk.  Give me 2 hours.
Strength and Honor,
Greg

[hippy]

merry x mas
and where is the world convention this year,
a lot of my freinds go every year. so if i want to go
it would be no problem.
email me  ***@****

[saveyourself]

hippee,
Isn't amazing how when people trust in a program and the steps, in God'S time miracles happen beyond what we could imagine.  I was a hope to die dope fiend when I got to NA in 88.  I was unemployable for the first year, held like 25 different jobs for a day or two.  I had two partners who had a year clean each, which I couldn't imagine at the time. I had left a de tox and was coming off methadone with SERIOUS withdrawls.  I went to 3 & 4 meetings a day.  Began to meet other recovering addicts, hearing their stories I knew I was home. Made some best friends to, two very close partners, relapes after 3 and 5 tears and od within two weeks of the relapse. You know I still miss those dudes so much, the disease wants us dead snd misaberle.

I got involved in service work, got married cleean,now that is an emotional roller coaster that could get one loaded.  Had 200 people at the wedding, 160 were our rcovery friends.  It was great.  God thruogh His mercy led me into a job that devoloped a whole new carreer, heck I barely graduated high school.

We have blessed with two beautiful daughters and thank God my wife knows and does not judge me for the last two weeks and even when she knew I was abusing the pills. Shes got a year clean. She would tell women don't leave men like you, your a keeper but you are ******* up and are going to hit a bottom. She was right. Recovery together is a blessing even tho it can be a double edge sword.

Are you going to the world convention in april, I believe. if you are I sure would like to meet you.  The spirt of the program of peace, understanding and serenity I see in all your posts.  It's 2am, I am going to try and go back to sleep.Man will be glad when the sleep normal patterns return.
MERy Christmas to you and yuor family

rex,
Hope all is well with you brother, wouldn't be great if the rapture came Christmas morning.  I am feeling better, let me hear from you ,man. Shoot you were the first one I related to on the boardf on the first day of de tox.
Merry Christmas and God Bless

[Rex1]

I am happy for you...

Rex

[saveyourself]

I relized I am a staunch supporter of NA and I think I mentioned AA in my Post.  Heck, who am I to judge,after my relapse in 96, I went back to Na 20 times and still used, then I tried AA because I had become an alcholic, didn't work either, even tried Gamblers anon, didn't work. It was not the programs, it was me, I was not ready, plus I am married to my wife who we met in recovery.  Well being co dependents, she started drinking, thank God she did not Gamble or we would have been ruined.  She has a year clean now, and our lives are about recovery.  My pill abuse started with the HCV.  You may have the prettiest and best wife in philly,  I know I got prettiest, loyal and is my soul mate even when I was going thruogh a mid life crisis here in vegas..  Is God's Grace and mercy great or what.

I have been hitting a 9:30 meeting on mondays weds, and fri.  Either hit the 2:30 on tue and thurs at hope house. Sat 10am mens meeting, sunday church. Man, you have been involved in NA since the 70s, a lot of changes huh.  I bet we know some of the same people.  I was heavily involved in service and went to every convention I could.
Are you a Christian, I have been for 12 years thanks to my wife.  I ask only because some of the posts I see betwwen you and rex.
Strength and Honor
Greg

[hippy]

yes i am a christian,
but i consider myself a sinner  more than anything.
as far na , i have seen a lot of changes since 1976
back then there was about 100 members and there was 10 meetings
in a 50 mile area, we all went to aa and na back then.
i was in and out for 8 years when i got clean in 84 i went around the country trying to find someone who knew
how to work the steps, i found a guy in clevland .
i went to lits of conventions , i was at the world in 85 in washington as time went on we spent a lot of time here in phila
starting a lot of meetings, i began speaking at a lot of conventions up and down the eastcoast.  
i started to back off of the scene  when i had 10 years clean and just went to my home group  ( for addicts only)na, tue,
and i spent a lot more time with my kids and wife.
i read the word every night with my wife.
she is messanic, and i am a catholic.
i really never mentiom religion to addicts at meetings.
i put my religion on a back burner during my begining years in
recovery,  there is a season for everything.
na has a say grow up or die, that is what i have been doing
over the years growing up.
my wife is a a dol and a saint, we are the best of freinds and lovers even after being together 15 years.
we just bought a big beautiful house in the suburbs and life
is beyond my dreams

[hippy]

to say that na is the only answer is not going to go over well
with a lot of people.
there other answers out there , for me and you na is the answer.
for others it may be aa, i know a lot of drug addicts in aa,
i don't understand it , but that is life.
recovery fron drug addiction is about finding out why we used ,
we have to find out what the problem is before we can apply
a solution.
my recovery began with surrender, then i started to accept reality,i was an addict.
rex is gifted, i am sure he has a path he is meant to follow
and i pretty sure it is going to involve helping people.
one thing is for sure we just can't do nothing.

peace , save where do you go to meetings.

[hippy]

hey  , really good to hear your doing so well with the
h-c  , i am a member of na and have so many freinds
with it, some active some not. along with the droves
of freinds that have succumbed.
anyway
once agian really glad things have gone so well for  you and your famly.

ps,  one question the medacations you took are they new.

peace !!!

[hippy]

very nice to read your post.
when i read happy joyous and free, it reminded me of greg p.
my old sponsers sponser.
i know a lot of people have a lot of negitive things to say
about na ,  i am not one to disagree or contradict people.
i learned in na to respesct people where they are.
respest is seeing the god in people.
ya na has saved my life, there was a time when i hated it,
but i had to surrender, and commit myself to meetings and i went everyday  for years,  i got a sponser who knew about the steps
and helped writ the text and he wrote about 6 of the phamplets himself. i traved the country speaking at conventions.
i also married the prettiest girl in the program he in philly.
we have been married 13 years this jan 13.

any way , if i am not the problem there is no solution.

one of the keys to my recovery was going the extra mile.
writeing on the steps, and lot of prayer.

peace, always good to read everyons post

[saveyourself]

Hey Man, Saw your question to the doc. hippee, please let me know if I am off base to rex with this. I just got back from a mens only NA meeting.  I know for this addict, NA is the only method of long term recovery and relapse prevention that has worked.  I have told you I had 7 years clean from all drugs including alchol. 1988 to 1996.  Then I became successful, stopped my meetings, left my sponser, found out that Social Acceptability Does Not Equal Recovery.  hippee will understand that one.  In essence, I was cured.  Boy was I wrong.

I have been to a meeting everyday since day 7 of withdrawl.  What kept me from going back a year ago was I was so embarressed and ashamed about my relapse.  I have run into clean HAPPY NA friends who only want me to recover and were really glad to see me.  I kid you not, because clean friendships and struggles are real.  I saw a guy this morning who I haven't seen in 3 years start crying out of happiness and I was not dead.  This guy would take a bullit for me as long as I was clean and in recovery.

Then there are  the addicts who 13th step the new comer chicks and some other freaks. Many do not make it. I gotta be honest, I met my wife in recovery.  Married 13 years and gone thruogh it all.  We are both back in recovery and realize that is where we are meant to be.  God has a way when we modify his will.  My wife and I have learned that the hard way.I take what I need to to stay clean one more day and leave the rest behind.  Narcotics Anonymous is the answer and your answer for millions of addictd in recovery, as is AA, I just relate better to drug users, including script users, there are docs, nurses, attorneys and highly educated people who have found the answer to not use and have happy,joyous and free way of life. You will see them at meetings, however anonimity is a major trust that is kept because of the jobs some people hold.

Rex, you and others have been such a help, but I know I can't stay clean on a message board.  My parents were my biggest enablers for pills before they died two years ago.  They thought they were helping, because they did not understand the disease of addiction. Very few people know I am an addict, I meet with people who run billion dollar hotels in vegas, who I negotiate contracts with.  So don't think you will be labeled.  Get an NA text, find some meetings in your area, raise your hand as a new comer, so people can help and I am sure you will never have to relapse if you follow suggestions and go to meetings.

Even if you have surgery and have to use, as I have, people brought meetings to my house.  There was no judgement because I was on pills. It was becaused they cared. These pills love for us to isolate.  BTW, if you want to say I am ful of S**t, it's okay. For me, I know what I had in those 7 years of recovery and I will with God's help humbly earn it back.
Gee, I sure sound better than 3 days ago. rex, once again thanks for all your support for me when I really didn't think I could make it. Jeez, another book.
Strength and Honor

[saveyourself]

At the time I was diagnosed by my family doc of 15 years. I had to ask him to specifally check for HCV, he felt I did't fit the profile. He found out I did.  I was sent to a gastroligist, Dr. Sharma, God blessed me going to him, he a Christian from India.  Anyways the set up a liver biopsy, which is an 18 inch needle they insert right under your rib cage.  It was no big deal for me, but many HGV csrriers sre in fear.  Had it done and found out I was betwwen stage 2 to 3, on a scale of 0 to 4.  The current treatment then, nov 2000 was 3 shots injected a week and 1200 mgs of ribavarin.  Success rates were not good, I think 20% and you had to be on it a year.

Now for me, the fda was 6 months from approval for the usa.  When I was asked how I could have got it, I said I had no idea, I never did drugs, drank and was sexual active with a number of women over the last 20 years.  It is a good thing I answered like this, I and only 500 hcv americans became accepted for test trials for a study by fda.  43,000 people aplied for this study.  I found out later that anyone who contracted the disease thruogh drug use was not eligible. Once again God and his mercy.  You see I was so fatigue I could not make it through the day and I owned my own company. Plus there are a lot of other symtoms many who have the disease pass of as the flu.

To now finally answer you question, I was on Pegatron interferon injected once a week at my home.  I also took ribavarin everyday, 2 in the am, 3 in pm. A new interferon Pegasy just got approved. My first reatment was at home and I thought I was going to die.  I even called the docs answering service and they said stop the ribavarin and come in monday.  Dr. Sharma asked if I wanted to see my oldest daughter graduate, shes 12.  Stop the treatment and you will be dead by then or in need of a new liver transpalant. So I continued with the faith God could beat it ,if I did the footwork. 195,000 people are waiting for liver transplants the day we had this talk. 50,000 people die from this disease each year. Oh, but I went trough hell. 2% of the patients commit suicide while on treatment. I had my wife change the commbo on my gun safe.  Only those who have been there understand and that is why many cannot complete the full treatment.

I was on the treatment for 6 months because of the type of virus, Some have to go on a year.  There are few who have it and it does no damage to the liver and they have no need to start treatment.  They have some natural chemical that eradicates the virus like it is a flu bug.  AS you know Pamela Anderson went public and their many bio tech companies coming up with stronger interferon with less side effects. There are many web sites that were a life saver for me. It is only by Grace and God's love I did get cured of this.  Didn't mean to right a book.  Condolences to the ones you lost to this horrible disease.
God Bless

[Rex1]

Yeah, I am glad I always keep my posts short.....;-)


Rex

[hippy]

hey rex,  my experence with living clean for  a decade and a half
plus, is something to look foward to, life go by so qucikly.
the one thing that made it a joy was helping others and
ENTHUSIASM  which in it's original greek  , i am pretty sure
means  god.
as far as grace, truely my favorite word, grace means thank you,
when we say grace at meals it's about thank you for the food.
in spanish gracious means thank you..
in french  the word for thank you is mercy.
so back to square one gratitude is the purist wisdom.
my practical appaclation of the principle of faith is to
say thank you lord, every day.

peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lost in space]

I don"t really have a comment but I don't know where else to go to talk to someone. I was searching the net looking up the ingridents of some cough meds that I got. I wanted to see how much to take to get me high. I stumbled across this sight. I have been addicted to narcotics for about 3 yrs.(on and off) I had 2 kids and was sober through my pregs, but started right after. This past year I have had 2 knee surgs and began taking vicodin on a regular basis. I was up to 12 to 14 norcos a day. I was getting it from every doctor I could. even my husbands doctor. ( my husband has no clue about my problem). About a month ago I came clean to my mother and doctor after he became concern. He sent me to an addiction doctor who put me on catapress, nuerotin, soma and temazpam. ativan prn. I was sober for 4 days. I told myself I could use a little but I am almost back up to my old dose. my problem is I will take anything that will get me high. Cough meds, codiene, davocet any narcotic. i relly want to get sober for myself. i am seeing a therapist weekly and on zoloft 150 mg a day. please I need some help if anyone can help me or just let me know that I  can stop. it is what I really need to hear. thanks

[Rex1]

Well, you came to the right place.

And yes you can stop. I was at one time calling myself Norco Boy. As of this writing, I am off the Norcos 26 days, and every day gets better.

Go back to the archives and read any posts from my handle Rex1 about a month ago, and you will find I was wreck just like you.

Come back here this weekend, and I, or many others here will tell you how to get started. It won't be easy, but the payoff is worth it.

We'll be praying for you. It can be done, and with some guts, prayer and the world famous Thomas Recipe, you will succeed.

Good to have you here....

Rex