To Forum Doc.- What techniques/methods can you recommend to avoid relapse?

[Rex1]

Dr. Horvath,

I hear horror stories of relapse and want to do everything I can to avoid this. Can you share any successful techniques or proven methods for us to utilize to avoid relapse?

Rex

[Rex1]

Bodymech,

So what did you do when you started to feel those temptations creep back in?

My dad told me recently that he has a whole bottle of Vicodin, that he was going to bring me, since he knows about my long struggle with back pain. I told him no, I didn't need them, but

Man it seems like a war inside of me - should I - shouldn't I? The thing that I keep running through my head is everyone's admission that detox the second time is a lot harder.

I value your advice a lot.

Rex

[peaz]

Hi--I've never posted to you but I think I can answer your question.  I have a really good book on recovery called Staying Sober: a Guide for Relapse Prevention by Gorski and Miller.  Here are the steps they espouse for relapse prevention planning:
     1. STABILIZATION: Get control of yourself
     2. SELF-ASSESSMENT: Find out what is going on in your head, heart, and life.
     3. RELAPSE EDUCATION: Learn about relapse and what to do to prevent it
     4. WARNING SIGN IDENTIFICATION: Make a list of your personal warning signs
     5. WARNING SIGN MANAGEMENT: Learn how to interrupt warning signs before you lose control
    6. INVENTORY TRAINING: Learn how to become consciously aware of warning signs as they develop
    7. REVIEW THE RECOVERY PROGRAM: Make sure your recovery program is able to help you manage your warning signs
    8. INVOLVEMENT OF SIGNIFICANT OTHERS: Teach others how to work w/ you to avoid relapse
   9. FOLLOW-UP: Up-date your relapse prevention plan regularly.

    This  listing involves a lot of supplementary reading--I can't possibly go into detail about each entry in a post.   But these nine catagories can at least point you  in the right direction as far as where to begin. They are vague because everyone's plan must be personally devised.  What's  good for you might be totally inapplicable to the next person.  
    Staying sober will be a life-long challenge.  To attempt something uninformed is asking for disaster.  We spent an unGODly amout of time on our addictions; it seems only fair that we spend at least that amount of time on our recovery.  Read, Read, Read.  Get books and refer to them often.  Decide which ones make sense to you and which ones to pitch into the garbage.  Then read some more.
      An after-care group, a therapist and some kind of recovery (12-step or other) is optimal.  Every effort increases the odds of staying sober.  It  WILL take effort, but I know we're all worth it!!    :-)   Peace and Good Luck---Peaz

[southernbelle]

you are not alone, my friend.  that's the REAL problem.....not relapsing.  it's so hard not to when you know those pills will take the pain away or take the edge off, you know?  i don't know of any advice to give you on that, because i have not even begun to master it.  at this point in my life, i believe it will ALWAYS be an addict, i will ALWAYS have this probelm, so i've just got to do what i can to be as responsible as i can.  i am a FIRM believer that addiction is a disease, and we should try ourselves like it is.  treat it, do what it takes to take care of pain but don't abuse, be responsbile...sort of like the way other people take care of their diseases (diabetes & other conditions).  i know there are some who would disagree with me, but i truly believe it's a disease and that's the approach that should be taken.  just my two cents worth, i guess!  hell, i'm just taking it ONE DAY AT A TIME.  that's all i can do.  life for me right now is HELL, and i'm just trying to scrape by each day.  my sincere love and respect for you.  we don't get treated with too much dignity by society, so as for me, you have my utmost respect and highest regards.  sincere love and peace to you.

[teeitup]

Finished what's going on? You have my email, let me know how things are!
Teeitup!

[NEW ORLEANS LADY]

I AM A NEWCOMER TO THIS SIGHT BUT HAVE VAST EXPERIENCE IN THE WORLD OF HYDROCODONE ADDICTION--I ONLY WISH THERE WAS AN EASY ANSWER TO THE QUESTION OF RELAPSE-IN FACT I WAS 15 DAYS HYDROCODONE FREE FOUR WEEKS AGO WHEN I JUST RECENTLY RELAPSED--IT JUST GOES TO SHOW YOU WHAT A POWERFUL HOLD THESE DRUGS HAVE ON OUR MINDS--PRAYER IS THE ONLY THING HELPING ME THROUGH THIS WITHDRAWAL--AND THE SUPPORT I GET FROM READING THIS FORUM
LOVE AND GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU

[saveyourself]

Greetings all,

It seems we are all having one of those days. I am in day 12 cold turkey with the thomas recipe. I was on 400mgs oxy and 120mgs of percs daily for 14 months. I ran out of clonidine two days ago, along with valium.  I went to the docs, it seems he would be happy I am not pestering him for pain pills.  He has known me for 10 years, instead I ask him to write out two scripts for 5 mgs vals and clondine, only enough for two weeks, now this is a doc who has given me 90 oxy 20s and 90 percs for a sore back.  Instead, he calls in his addicnoligist, recently hired.  Now I am telling you, I was in major withdrawls and was in no mood to talk to a book educated additionwhatever,yet Iexplained the recipe and how well it has worked.

She took her notes and then told me I should really be on methadone, been there done that in 88, it took four months to be free of all WD symptoms. So she give me 15 valium, clonidine and told me four more times that methadone is your solution. She wants to see me back on monday.  

I go to the pharmacy and this little dweeb who has the power tells me, I will have to wait three days to fill .  I told him, guys like you I used to kick your ass in high school and I am in no mood to wait three days. Sorry sir was all he could say. So I left.  This morning I have been mean to my wife, jacked her up for nothing.  Thank God ,She understands what I am going through.
Please no advice about it will better in a day or two.  With my history, 22 years of opiate abuse legal and illegal, it will take three to four weeks to feel human again.  No matter what I don't pick up, I found a perc yesterday and flushed it with out a thought off taking it.  My kids and wife are going to get the best Christmas present I can give them and that is me being clean and staying clean.  I will go to an NA meeting this afternoon. I am getting to old for he trauma of WD.

I am really wondering if doctors, drug companies, pharmacies want patients to get well or to just stay addicted. Coming off this oxy is like coming off of heroin or long term use of methadone.  However, it is all about the money.  To the few good Doctors who are out there, thank you, we are all indebted you. To you other doctors who use cattle call methods at your offices, pass out meds that destroy peoples lives without even educating yourselves to the reality of harm you solely are causing.  There is a special place in Hell for you.  I hope it is an enternity of being in withdrawls. May God forgive you for selling out your God given talents.  Oh, yeah, don't know what I would have done without you people on this board.  As David Bowie once sung, WE CAN BE HERO'S FOR JUST ONE DAY.
Peace and Strength

[saveyourself]

I have just read my post and there are comments and opinions that do not benifit the board.  I gotta tell you I have not felt the pain, anxiety and anger I have now for over 20 years.  NOT TO MINIMIZE IT'S OWN HELL, BUT MAN I WISH I WAS COMING OF PERCS, HYDRO, NORCOS ECT.  I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy, well maybe one or two. Thats the first sense of humor I had in 36 hours. One thing I am glad I am doing is doing this cold turkey, with the recipe. I just need to use it for 2 more weeks.  I am keeping a journal and I never want to forget this hell.  I respect those who can taper and if I had a choice I would do it.  But I have tried that method 50 times and I have always failed. I am to much of an addict and do not have the self control, even if someone was doling them out. God Bless those of you that are doing it. Your in my prayers, please keep me in yours. rex1, oxic,vicojen,southernbelle, body mech, methman and the rest of you, I am so grateful you people are on this board because I doubt I would have got past day four without being able to log on at 2 in the morning and know I was not alone.
Strength and Honor
Greg

[Bodymechanic]

Email me, I have a copy of Jack Trimpeys book I can send you.  The only thing I ask in return is that you send it to another board member when you are done reading it. I am suggesting this book because Jack Trimpey is the only one with a truely different approach.  Twelve step books, spirital approaches and even Rational Recovery, although they seem to work, have been worn to death.

***@****

In reality my struggle and the struggle of many others is much more difficult than abstainance.  It is trying to take medication responsibly with a history of addiction.  

I have asked this before. What is your long term plan to deal with pain now that you are clean?  Keep in mind these types of pain problems tend to get worse, not better with age. Early recovery up to a year is very easy. It gets harder after that.

[teeitup]

You'll make it bud, hope your evening is better!

[southernbelle]

just wanted you to know i care for you, i understand.  i'm currently seeing a psychiatrist.  it's amazing how much our mental state has to do with our addiction.  i really believe our disease is so misunderstood...i hate that.  and it's just society that makes us feel like **** about this.  other people, the news, doctors who missed their calling and probably should have chosen another career path in life, jealous people, critical people.  all those things i just mentioned are what tells us we are addicts.  i believe with all my heart that it's a disease that most people know nothing about.  it's really sad.  how is it other people can be so normal, while we struggle every day?  anyway, i just want you to know i was thinking about you...we're in this together.  ALL things are temporary, too.  Even this struggle and battle we fight every day---it's only temporary.  LOVE and PEACE to you, I mean it!

[Jennibean]

You know I know the hell you are in now and all I can say is the fear of doing it is tremendous. You ARE doing it. Each day is hell and sometimes you think the next day has got to be better and it is worse yet. Please keep your anger ( not to your wife though to your drugs) I really think that sometimes anger is what eventually gives us more control. It's a love hate relationship with these damn drugs. I love them and hate them at the same time. I love that when I take them everything seems ok, I don't stress and I don't cry. But at the same time I feel horrible about myself and lately I go to bed at night wondering if I am going to wake up the next morning. I am trying to come off of 220mg of oxycodone I say trying because like you I can't seem to taper. too addicted I guess. You know the old saying "I am powerless over my addiction" see I had trouble with that because I thought it meant we didn't have the power to get off the ****. But really it just means we are powerless when we have it and are under it's influence. It is so true which is why I cannot taper. I guess I should be happy that I have to withdrawal from all this oxycodone rather than even more oxycontin again. But it's all so bad. Maybe because I just detoxed from oxycontin 2 months ago I am feeling so much fear of detox when in reality it can't be as bad as last time. Ok enough about me though. Everyday I want you to think that "today is one day less that I will ever feel this way" Since with withdrawal there is no predicting when you will feel better just concentrate on getting one more day behind you. Do it now because if you start again this HELL you have been going through is all for nothing! I hate all the times I detoxed and swore I would never use again. What a waste! I want this bad, SO bad! I have not been an addict for 20 years. I was a decent sweet stay at home mom. Now I have this secret life for almost 3 years. I think my God almost everyday for 3 years I have put huge amounts of these drugs in my body yet when I am in withdrawal for a couple days I am screaming at how unfair it seems. Just think what if we had to withdrawal one day for everyday we used, makes this seem alot better. Don't you think the days you use fly by and the days you are in withdrawal seem like a week each?  Also what I wanted to say was replace some of your behaviors, you know you don't realize how much of your day is consumed with using behavior. Thinking what time can I take it again, where am I getting my next refill etc. When I detoxed before what helped me alot was every 4 hours when I would normally take my pills I lit a candle and said a prayer(not very religious but just asked for more strength). I also have these inspirational wish stones that my mom got me. They almost feel and sound like pills. Anyway several times a day I would pull out a stone and then read the book that came with it. Each stone has several little inspirational messgaes that go with it and they really applied to my situation. It helped alot to physically replace some of the time I spent worrying about my pills before. Also MAJOR help here I don't know what kind of music you like but my family made me a CD of all the songs I listen to when I am not using. That CD helped me so much I listened to it several times a day, each time I felt like I could handle anything. Some of my songs are Moving on by Rascal flatts, Just like a pill and don't let me get me by pink, It's been a while by stained(BEST ONE),I've been there (that's why I'm here) by Kenney Chesney. and more but if you don't know the words to these songs do yourself a favor and go to aimster or somewhere tonight and upload them and listen to every word. Music is so powerful and that'll give you something to do to keep your mind off of this **** for a little while. Ok enough rambling. Basically just wanted to say, stay strong and keep going you CAN do this. You are right this is the best present you could ever give your family!! Big HUGS for you too!!!

[Rex1]

I am not sure I actually have pain - that's the thing I am still trying to determine. I am in pain right now but is it real or withdrawl pain?

History: In 1998, I had some minor low back pain. (I had gone to physical therapy two years earlier for it, and done some exercises but no drugs other than Motrin.)I also had quite a lot of anxiety over a new job I had started where I had to do a lot of public speaking - needless to say - very phobic, clinically phobic!

Long story short, I did have real pain, but probably not the kind that required Vicodin. Well, I tried some Vicodin and it completely eliminated the low back pain, but guess what? It worked great on my anxiety too.

The back got worse, but how much worse I am not sure, because there was never a day when I wasn't on Vicodin. But most days it really hurt and over the next 4 years, I tried swimming, excercise, PT, Chiro, and finally had some epidural shots which worked wonders on the low back. The upper back though between the shoulder blades "shunted" to protect the low back, according to the back doc and some joints may have become frozen. Its hurting right now, but how much of the pain is the fact that I want a Vicodin?

But I still wanted the drugs - I was full on addicted at this point.

Now the question is "Do I have a true medical condition, or just the craving for the drugs that is causing my current pain?"

If it is real pain, then I would likely need to wait a month or so to confirm that, but will use the following methods to deal with pain:

Swim - twice a week
Run/Walk - No hills or dales - twice a week
Stretch - daily
Thomas Recipe
Zanaflex for nightime

If after a month or so, the pain goes away, then I will likely treat the drugs the same way I have treated alcohol for the last 7 years. If I go in a little, I will be all the way in...again.

Pain sucks...but drug abuse is worse...

Rex

[Thomas02]

actually, the only technique for staying clean that consistently works is to sleep 24 hours a day. If you're a goner like me, every thought, every image is one big fat "cue." I wake up, the daylight says "Use -- now!" And the day just goes on from there ...


Thomas

[Rex1]

As Arnold said to Tom Arnold in the movie True Lies,

"Stop cheering me up!"

Rex

[sedativist]

you are so right! About everything.  It is so frustrating.  I've been having withdrawls from methadone, after being totally detoxed off of it, for 2 months.  I can hardly stand the way I feel anymore, physically, and, mentally, I'm totally psycho.  All of my coworkers wonder what the hell is wrong with me, up one day, and down and pissed off the next.  I just hope I will remember all this when I feel like using again.  Was addicted to heroin for 7 long years, then on methadone for 4 years.  I'm so tired.  Finally went to jail at the end of the 7th year, thankfully, I guess.  Stopped the cycle.  It is so hard.  I went to an NA meeting every day for 2 years.  Atleast that helped set a routine, but I needed something more. Glad someone recommended this forum.

I wish you luck.  To avoid relapse?  That's the million dollar question.

[Rex1]

Hey, are you feeling any better. How is the Psych working out. Post if you feel like it...

Rex

[saveyourself]

Well, it's 2:00 am and I am the only one up at my house.  I look forward to the day I can get 6 hours sleep in a row.  Thanks for all your resonses, man it was a horrible day yesterday and it's over.  Vicojen said it best. You keep praying the next day will be better.  That day is coming.

No matter what I am not picking up. sedacist, congrats to you.  I have lived in LV for thirty years.  If we had a high school re union, yhey would have to hold up at the prision in Carson City or the grave yard. God has spared me for his work. It is sad, I have lost alot of brothers and sidters to drugs.  FYI I was clean in NA for 7 years, met my wife, got into service,worked with newcomers and hit meetings, It kept me clean,grateful and humble, looking back they were the best years of my life. Both my wife were annd are involved in recovery, we have two kids who are the best.

I went through 25 jobs my first year clean, but God had a plan.
I got introduce to a new carreer, started at the bottom, leared the whole business snd started in sales,  Made the owner and I some very good money.  I started my own company in 1994, had some great people working with me, made it a success and sold it in 1998.  I have owned another company for two years. By this point I was drinking socially, no meetings for a year and got into gambling and went thruogh two years of hell being addicted to booze and gambling.  Ii get addicrted to anything that changes the way I feel.  I don't have the luxuruy of pride,  I have humblely gone back to NA,  I can't stand  some people and their stories.  I take what I need and leave the rest.

Thanks everybody, I am going to bed.
Strength and Honor

[hippy]

peace to all,
im an addict , im 42 i started going to na meetings
in 1976 because of a meth(speed) and qualudes 714 rorer.
i stayed clean for 9 months, went back to useing  tried to stop countless times for the next 8 years to no avil.
tried aa - na - shrinks, detoxs .after 8 years of relapse i got clean in na in 1984 afer my second divorce.
really got involved in the 12 step program.
stayed clean fo 17 years  , untill i  my rotater cuff was torn.
then the i was introduced to vikes, took them for a years as prescribed, but life threw me a few curves my younger brother died of and overdose, my mother law died and my father in law
then my best freind passed from hep c. , then my sponser died of hep c. well i stertrd to look over my shoulder death was
haunting me and i started to take a few exrta pills a week
untill  i was taking 15 a day. then i found this fourm and
started on the receipe. that was in march 02  so now i have
8 months.i only took the vikes percs and oxy. i never drank
i never smoked weed. i took the pills to function it was
not about getting high, it was about getting normal.
for me relapse has always started with fantasy, then being around the wrong people  or places.
just talking about drugs  is a no no for me.
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[teeitup]

I'm 42 to also, those 714's and mandrax like to took me a couple of times too. Stay strong!

Teeitup!

[lifeisbetter]

I remember Hippy's struggles.  I read alot of his posts back then. I even remember your first post Hippy. Wow, I'm sitting here with tears, I am so happy for you. It's like your part of my family and if I could I'd give you a great big hug!

I also want to tell everyone something great about getting clean. You get to see things come full circle. Two years ago Dec. 26 I went to a woman's shelter with my 3 young kids. My husband and I were both addicted to drugs and he got physical with me one night. I had no money so we ended up in the shelter. Well you know what? I am leaving work right now with 2 huge bags of brand new toys that my friends collected so I could bring them to the kids in the shelter this Christmas. That is the feeling of true "euphoria" because its real and it will still feel great tommorow. Monday I will have one year! I think there may really be a Santa Claus!

[hippy]

thanks for the hope always nice to see things getting better.
i hope you christmas is filled with joy

peace hippy

[Rex1]

Hey brother, hope your doing well...

Rex

[lost in space]

I don"t really have a comment but I don't know where else to go to talk to someone. I was searching the net looking up the ingridents of some cough meds that I got. I wanted to see how much to take to get me high. I stumbled across this sight. I have been addicted to narcotics for about 3 yrs.(on and off) I had 2 kids and was sober through my pregs, but started right after. This past year I have had 2 knee surgs and began taking vicodin on a regular basis. I was up to 12 to 14 norcos a day. I was getting it from every doctor I could. even my husbands doctor. ( my husband has no clue about my problem). About a month ago I came clean to my mother and doctor after he became concern. He sent me to an addiction doctor who put me on catapress, nuerotin, soma and temazpam. ativan prn. I was sober for 4 days. I told myself I could use a little but I am almost back up to my old dose. my problem is I will take anything that will get me high. Cough meds, codiene, davocet any narcotic. i relly want to get sober for myself. i am seeing a therapist weekly and on zoloft 150 mg a day. please I need some help if anyone can help me or just let me know that I  can stop. it is what I really need to hear. thanks

[Rex1]

Well, you came to the right place.

And yes you can stop. I was at one time calling myself Norco Boy. As of this writing, I am off the Norcos 26 days, and every day gets better.

Go back to the archives and read any posts from my handle Rex1 about a month ago, and you will find I was wreck just like you.

Come back here this weekend, and I, or many others here will tell you how to get started. It won't be easy, but the payoff is worth it.

We'll be praying for you. It can be done, and with some guts, prayer and the world famous Thomas Recipe, you will succeed.

Good to have you here....

Rex

[saveyourself]

Greetings all,

hippee, I to was diagnosed with Hep c, two years ago.  I know it was from my using in the earlier 80's.  I had the disease for twenty years.  Most people do not realize they have it. Statistics show 40% were not drug users and do not know how they got it.  I went on the new pegatron and ribavarin.  Took a shot on friday, pills everyday. Due to the type of HCV, there are 5 differeny types.  I was on the treatment for 6 months, some have to go a year. Had family cheched their all ok, thank God. It is like chemo, the side effects are horrible and I went through Dante's Inferno every night after the shot for days. Many stop the treatment brcause of the side effects.

Now, the good news,  I have had blood work done every month since the end of treatment.  As my DR. says the disease is eradicated and you are cured. Their baromater is virus free for 12 months.  I am in month 20.

The most common way to catch it is of course iv use, however, they are finding that sharing straws to snort drugs is the number one transimiter of the disease.

I suggest everyone request a specific Hep c blood screening from your doc or health clinic, its main symptom is unexpained fatigue.

rex, you are in my prayers, man I don't know if I could have pills in the house and not devolop some injury and with  my vast experiance in pain management would diagnos and write a mental script to self medicate.  What ever you do, you your posts to this board has been an angel on my shoulder.  Anything I can do ,I am there
Strength and Honor
Greg

[hippy]

hey rex just wanted to say yo.
how ya doing , your post have been nopthing short of
wonderful the last month.
keep up the great work'
me im doing great , miricles are happining all the
time,i have been medatating on one of king davids
diddies pslm 25.
life is good
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rex1]

Thanks for all of your help during the first month.

I sure wish He would show up today - right now as a matter of fact - except for all those who would be left behind.

What is most amazing to me if the concept of Grace. We have a great Lord!

-----------------

I am starting to feel a little better physically, but that feeling of "How will I ever live life sober?" is occasionally popping into my head. I guess I'm off to my prayer closet for that one....

Merry Christmas my good friend!

Rex

[hippy]

hey rex,  my experence with living clean for  a decade and a half
plus, is something to look foward to, life go by so qucikly.
the one thing that made it a joy was helping others and
ENTHUSIASM  which in it's original greek  , i am pretty sure
means  god.
as far as grace, truely my favorite word, grace means thank you,
when we say grace at meals it's about thank you for the food.
in spanish gracious means thank you..
in french  the word for thank you is mercy.
so back to square one gratitude is the purist wisdom.
my practical appaclation of the principle of faith is to
say thank you lord, every day.

peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hippy]

hey  , really good to hear your doing so well with the
h-c  , i am a member of na and have so many freinds
with it, some active some not. along with the droves
of freinds that have succumbed.
anyway
once agian really glad things have gone so well for  you and your famly.

ps,  one question the medacations you took are they new.

peace !!!

[saveyourself]

At the time I was diagnosed by my family doc of 15 years. I had to ask him to specifally check for HCV, he felt I did't fit the profile. He found out I did.  I was sent to a gastroligist, Dr. Sharma, God blessed me going to him, he a Christian from India.  Anyways the set up a liver biopsy, which is an 18 inch needle they insert right under your rib cage.  It was no big deal for me, but many HGV csrriers sre in fear.  Had it done and found out I was betwwen stage 2 to 3, on a scale of 0 to 4.  The current treatment then, nov 2000 was 3 shots injected a week and 1200 mgs of ribavarin.  Success rates were not good, I think 20% and you had to be on it a year.

Now for me, the fda was 6 months from approval for the usa.  When I was asked how I could have got it, I said I had no idea, I never did drugs, drank and was sexual active with a number of women over the last 20 years.  It is a good thing I answered like this, I and only 500 hcv americans became accepted for test trials for a study by fda.  43,000 people aplied for this study.  I found out later that anyone who contracted the disease thruogh drug use was not eligible. Once again God and his mercy.  You see I was so fatigue I could not make it through the day and I owned my own company. Plus there are a lot of other symtoms many who have the disease pass of as the flu.

To now finally answer you question, I was on Pegatron interferon injected once a week at my home.  I also took ribavarin everyday, 2 in the am, 3 in pm. A new interferon Pegasy just got approved. My first reatment was at home and I thought I was going to die.  I even called the docs answering service and they said stop the ribavarin and come in monday.  Dr. Sharma asked if I wanted to see my oldest daughter graduate, shes 12.  Stop the treatment and you will be dead by then or in need of a new liver transpalant. So I continued with the faith God could beat it ,if I did the footwork. 195,000 people are waiting for liver transplants the day we had this talk. 50,000 people die from this disease each year. Oh, but I went trough hell. 2% of the patients commit suicide while on treatment. I had my wife change the commbo on my gun safe.  Only those who have been there understand and that is why many cannot complete the full treatment.

I was on the treatment for 6 months because of the type of virus, Some have to go on a year.  There are few who have it and it does no damage to the liver and they have no need to start treatment.  They have some natural chemical that eradicates the virus like it is a flu bug.  AS you know Pamela Anderson went public and their many bio tech companies coming up with stronger interferon with less side effects. There are many web sites that were a life saver for me. It is only by Grace and God's love I did get cured of this.  Didn't mean to right a book.  Condolences to the ones you lost to this horrible disease.
God Bless

[saveyourself]

Hey Man, Saw your question to the doc. hippee, please let me know if I am off base to rex with this. I just got back from a mens only NA meeting.  I know for this addict, NA is the only method of long term recovery and relapse prevention that has worked.  I have told you I had 7 years clean from all drugs including alchol. 1988 to 1996.  Then I became successful, stopped my meetings, left my sponser, found out that Social Acceptability Does Not Equal Recovery.  hippee will understand that one.  In essence, I was cured.  Boy was I wrong.

I have been to a meeting everyday since day 7 of withdrawl.  What kept me from going back a year ago was I was so embarressed and ashamed about my relapse.  I have run into clean HAPPY NA friends who only want me to recover and were really glad to see me.  I kid you not, because clean friendships and struggles are real.  I saw a guy this morning who I haven't seen in 3 years start crying out of happiness and I was not dead.  This guy would take a bullit for me as long as I was clean and in recovery.

Then there are  the addicts who 13th step the new comer chicks and some other freaks. Many do not make it. I gotta be honest, I met my wife in recovery.  Married 13 years and gone thruogh it all.  We are both back in recovery and realize that is where we are meant to be.  God has a way when we modify his will.  My wife and I have learned that the hard way.I take what I need to to stay clean one more day and leave the rest behind.  Narcotics Anonymous is the answer and your answer for millions of addictd in recovery, as is AA, I just relate better to drug users, including script users, there are docs, nurses, attorneys and highly educated people who have found the answer to not use and have happy,joyous and free way of life. You will see them at meetings, however anonimity is a major trust that is kept because of the jobs some people hold.

Rex, you and others have been such a help, but I know I can't stay clean on a message board.  My parents were my biggest enablers for pills before they died two years ago.  They thought they were helping, because they did not understand the disease of addiction. Very few people know I am an addict, I meet with people who run billion dollar hotels in vegas, who I negotiate contracts with.  So don't think you will be labeled.  Get an NA text, find some meetings in your area, raise your hand as a new comer, so people can help and I am sure you will never have to relapse if you follow suggestions and go to meetings.

Even if you have surgery and have to use, as I have, people brought meetings to my house.  There was no judgement because I was on pills. It was becaused they cared. These pills love for us to isolate.  BTW, if you want to say I am ful of S**t, it's okay. For me, I know what I had in those 7 years of recovery and I will with God's help humbly earn it back.
Gee, I sure sound better than 3 days ago. rex, once again thanks for all your support for me when I really didn't think I could make it. Jeez, another book.
Strength and Honor

[hippy]

very nice to read your post.
when i read happy joyous and free, it reminded me of greg p.
my old sponsers sponser.
i know a lot of people have a lot of negitive things to say
about na ,  i am not one to disagree or contradict people.
i learned in na to respesct people where they are.
respest is seeing the god in people.
ya na has saved my life, there was a time when i hated it,
but i had to surrender, and commit myself to meetings and i went everyday  for years,  i got a sponser who knew about the steps
and helped writ the text and he wrote about 6 of the phamplets himself. i traved the country speaking at conventions.
i also married the prettiest girl in the program he in philly.
we have been married 13 years this jan 13.

any way , if i am not the problem there is no solution.

one of the keys to my recovery was going the extra mile.
writeing on the steps, and lot of prayer.

peace, always good to read everyons post

[Rex1]

Yeah, I am glad I always keep my posts short.....;-)


Rex

[hippy]

to say that na is the only answer is not going to go over well
with a lot of people.
there other answers out there , for me and you na is the answer.
for others it may be aa, i know a lot of drug addicts in aa,
i don't understand it , but that is life.
recovery fron drug addiction is about finding out why we used ,
we have to find out what the problem is before we can apply
a solution.
my recovery began with surrender, then i started to accept reality,i was an addict.
rex is gifted, i am sure he has a path he is meant to follow
and i pretty sure it is going to involve helping people.
one thing is for sure we just can't do nothing.

peace , save where do you go to meetings.

[saveyourself]

I relized I am a staunch supporter of NA and I think I mentioned AA in my Post.  Heck, who am I to judge,after my relapse in 96, I went back to Na 20 times and still used, then I tried AA because I had become an alcholic, didn't work either, even tried Gamblers anon, didn't work. It was not the programs, it was me, I was not ready, plus I am married to my wife who we met in recovery.  Well being co dependents, she started drinking, thank God she did not Gamble or we would have been ruined.  She has a year clean now, and our lives are about recovery.  My pill abuse started with the HCV.  You may have the prettiest and best wife in philly,  I know I got prettiest, loyal and is my soul mate even when I was going thruogh a mid life crisis here in vegas..  Is God's Grace and mercy great or what.

I have been hitting a 9:30 meeting on mondays weds, and fri.  Either hit the 2:30 on tue and thurs at hope house. Sat 10am mens meeting, sunday church. Man, you have been involved in NA since the 70s, a lot of changes huh.  I bet we know some of the same people.  I was heavily involved in service and went to every convention I could.
Are you a Christian, I have been for 12 years thanks to my wife.  I ask only because some of the posts I see betwwen you and rex.
Strength and Honor
Greg

[hippy]

yes i am a christian,
but i consider myself a sinner  more than anything.
as far na , i have seen a lot of changes since 1976
back then there was about 100 members and there was 10 meetings
in a 50 mile area, we all went to aa and na back then.
i was in and out for 8 years when i got clean in 84 i went around the country trying to find someone who knew
how to work the steps, i found a guy in clevland .
i went to lits of conventions , i was at the world in 85 in washington as time went on we spent a lot of time here in phila
starting a lot of meetings, i began speaking at a lot of conventions up and down the eastcoast.  
i started to back off of the scene  when i had 10 years clean and just went to my home group  ( for addicts only)na, tue,
and i spent a lot more time with my kids and wife.
i read the word every night with my wife.
she is messanic, and i am a catholic.
i really never mentiom religion to addicts at meetings.
i put my religion on a back burner during my begining years in
recovery,  there is a season for everything.
na has a say grow up or die, that is what i have been doing
over the years growing up.
my wife is a a dol and a saint, we are the best of freinds and lovers even after being together 15 years.
we just bought a big beautiful house in the suburbs and life
is beyond my dreams

[Rex1]

I am happy for you...

Rex

[saveyourself]

hippee,
Isn't amazing how when people trust in a program and the steps, in God'S time miracles happen beyond what we could imagine.  I was a hope to die dope fiend when I got to NA in 88.  I was unemployable for the first year, held like 25 different jobs for a day or two.  I had two partners who had a year clean each, which I couldn't imagine at the time. I had left a de tox and was coming off methadone with SERIOUS withdrawls.  I went to 3 & 4 meetings a day.  Began to meet other recovering addicts, hearing their stories I knew I was home. Made some best friends to, two very close partners, relapes after 3 and 5 tears and od within two weeks of the relapse. You know I still miss those dudes so much, the disease wants us dead snd misaberle.

I got involved in service work, got married cleean,now that is an emotional roller coaster that could get one loaded.  Had 200 people at the wedding, 160 were our rcovery friends.  It was great.  God thruogh His mercy led me into a job that devoloped a whole new carreer, heck I barely graduated high school.

We have blessed with two beautiful daughters and thank God my wife knows and does not judge me for the last two weeks and even when she knew I was abusing the pills. Shes got a year clean. She would tell women don't leave men like you, your a keeper but you are ******* up and are going to hit a bottom. She was right. Recovery together is a blessing even tho it can be a double edge sword.

Are you going to the world convention in april, I believe. if you are I sure would like to meet you.  The spirt of the program of peace, understanding and serenity I see in all your posts.  It's 2am, I am going to try and go back to sleep.Man will be glad when the sleep normal patterns return.
MERy Christmas to you and yuor family

rex,
Hope all is well with you brother, wouldn't be great if the rapture came Christmas morning.  I am feeling better, let me hear from you ,man. Shoot you were the first one I related to on the boardf on the first day of de tox.
Merry Christmas and God Bless

[hippy]

merry x mas
and where is the world convention this year,
a lot of my freinds go every year. so if i want to go
it would be no problem.
email me  ***@****

[Rex1]

Hey bud, I am hanging in, battling the relapse demon. I haven't relasped, but I feel it coming and am trying to everything I can to beat it back.

I literally feel like my life it teetering on the edge of a knife. To the one side is partial freedom from this ****, the other is falling back to the bototm of that staircase I just climbed, hating every minute of it.

Christmas Eve, went to the Church, gave it to God, he took it and helped me win. Yesterday, the holiest of days save Easter, same thing. He won for me.

As for today, I don't know yet. Back is hurting like Hell and I have those Blahs Thomas always talks about.

Pray for me, pal.

Rex

[teeitup]

Hang tough bud, I wish I were as strong as you. I made 4 days c/t, 7 days with only 1 Es a day but the last 3 days I couldn't take the pain and have had 2 a day.

thanks for your words and good luck!
teeitup!

[saveyourself]

Hey Brother,

I am praying for you and remember, regardless of your back, you have enough time behind you to not choose  to take an opiate.  Hot bath,cold packs or what ever gets you through the day.
It is your brain and the demon wanting you to use.  I don't have the answers, I do know you can bear the pain for one hour. Maybe then till dinner time.  Then go to bed and read Romans,  Did your Dad deliver those vics to you?  If so, that is why your mind is telling you your back hurts. Only my opinion.  I just got back from pyhisical therapy, It has really helped with my withdrawls and my legitamate pain.  I have got to pick up a friend, we are going to a NA meeting.  I will write you as soon as I get back.  If you haven't used already,please don't use until we talk.  Give me 2 hours.
Strength and Honor,
Greg

[saveyourself]

I am back, where are you?

[hippy]

HEY REX , WHER EVER THERE IS AN OUT POURING OF THE SPIRIT
there ia s strong effort put forth by the diabolic.
i found in my early recovery to keep it simple.
take each day  and live in that day steer clear of the past and stay out of the future, it a just for today program.
as thomas said2 b-6 and 4 500 mg L-tyrosine really helps
a lot with pain and depresson.

every thing gets better with time, just go with the flow.
try not to judge yourself, because your doing your best,
god will do the rest.
try to get hold of a daily medatation book that is reccvery based.
don't make any major decsions.


I TELL YOU SOLEMNLY
WHATEVER YOU SAK FOR IN PRAYER.
BELEIVE THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED IT.
AND IT WILL BE YOURS,
SAYS THE LORD.
MARK 11:24

PEACE  !!!!! HIPPY

[Rex1]

Greg, Michael, T and Thomas - 11:00 pm on the 26th.

Deepest thanks to you guys - made it through another day. (see my post higher up on the particulars...)

Not sure if this makes sense, but the last three days were the ones I was worried most about, because of the specialness of the days, wanting to be with my family and not thinking about pain. It turns that the "specialness" of these days are what got me through, along with all of you here.

Also, I have been reading about people here with real pain, makes mine look like a pin *****. What happened to me? I was the toughest guy around, not the biggest, but the last one standing, you know? Bring it on!! That was me! Now look at me "my back, my back". How pathetic.

To the lurkers out there - quit now. Trust me on this  - quit now. If you have been taking them for two months, or three months, or even a year - just trust me - flush them all if you can. Or better yet, taper to zero and kiss them goodbye. Painkillers turn your life upside down so silently and with so much cunning and guile. You go to sleep as the Terminator and wake up 5 years later as Aunt Bee!

Man this was a rough couple of days, but I think the clouds are clearing a bit, although I have to always be on watch...

God Bless and looking forward to tommorrow.
(Return lines at the mall and no pain meds - a winning combo!)

Aunt Bee


a.k.a Rex

[saveyourself]

God Bless you, man.  I was really worried you were going to use.  Keep the faith,  I have had pysical therapy once a day for two days and I am going in the am.  It not only helped with the ailments, it was a majorhelp on my WD symptoms. Plus the PHT is so fine.  All I have to do is look at her snd the pain disappears.  Not lustly of course.  it is just like appreciating a fine piece of art.  I wrote you a more detailed post, please read it.  You were a major help to me in my early stages of WD.  For me if I can ever get my sleep pattens back, I will be so happy.
Sttrength and Honor
Greg

[lisabet]

hee-hee - loved the "Aunt Bee" thingie.  Least you've keeping your sense of humour.  You're doing great. Peace, Lisabet

[Rex1]

Thanks for the encouragment. Mind is better today, body is worse. Oh well, I'll keep plugging along.

Rex

[Chucklebug]

I am also interested in relapses ... I had a Vicodin problem for about a year and half (half of 2000, all of 2001), and I went into the hospital on January 3, 2001.  I was there 6 days and left clean ... I have been fine since then, but on December 19 of this year, I had a bout with pancreatitis (it's hereditary ... the pancreatitis is the reason I had access to Vicodin in the first place) and I took 2 5/500s (I had pancreas problems in April and I took about 8 pills over 3 days, stopping when the pain stopped).  But this time, I've taken 1 or 2 pills per day since the 19th ... I REALLY don't want to relapse, but the holidays had me stressed out, and I always get a little anxious when I have a break between semesters.  I am just wondering if I'm going to have withdrawal symptoms after taking about 20 5/500s over the course of 2 weeks?  I need to stop NOW.  Thanks!