Aa
To Help Another - Suboxone
Hi. I hope you are doing well. I am meeting with a lady from our church tonight for counseling. She used to be addicted to Oxy (up to 120mgs a day minimum) and went to detox. She has been off of it for over a year, but is now on Suboxone. She still doesn't "seem" or "feel" right. She is figity all the time, anxious, paranoid, tired, emotional, etc.
What I'm wondering is, what does Suboxone do for her other than keep her from taking Oxy? How can I help "direct" her (or should I) to getting off the Suboxone too? She is a mother of 4, and I can see her trapped in that world of the deceiving mind, and tired body. She says she's on a very low dose of Suboxone, but is scared to death of WDs.
Thanks for your time, and any feedback would be appreciated.
David
What I'm wondering is, what does Suboxone do for her other than keep her from taking Oxy? How can I help "direct" her (or should I) to getting off the Suboxone too? She is a mother of 4, and I can see her trapped in that world of the deceiving mind, and tired body. She says she's on a very low dose of Suboxone, but is scared to death of WDs.
Thanks for your time, and any feedback would be appreciated.
David
I dont really know about the tracker but apparently it shows your clean time,,,right? Showing your clean time is an inspiration to ALL those that are struggling, much like celebrating clean time in na,aa, or any other program. So then keeping track of this time is one of the best things that you can do for someone trying to quit. Probably better then all the degrees or giving money to whoever. And yes someone with even a minute more then me knows a minute more then me but someone with years of clean time knows ALOT more then me. Good Luck but I"d still listen to ibkleens advice.,,,,,P.S.,,, celebrating clean time is meant to help the newcomer more then the person celebrating and I"m saying this cause you sound like you care.
There's no need to apologize to me but thank you for that. My feelings were never hurt. I was trying to help you see what some of us could see, more to help you than to make a point.
David, you're a good guy and we all know that. Don't feel ganged up on or anything of that nature...there's so much to learn and understand about drug abuse, addiction, medication, pain management, when to draw the line, abuse vs dependence and on and on. I'm still learning and reading and I'm an RN of many years! I'm still sorting it out so that I can understand myself and hopefully help the next guy with what I've learned.
To me, the important thing is that you're doing well now and feeling comfortable in your own skin. Have a nice weekend and don't think about this for awhile...BUT do some research on Suboxone so you know about it. There's much to learn and then pop back with questions for weaver or whomever...it's not a pain med although I know it's used that way once in awhile. Check on it!
David, you're a good guy and we all know that. Don't feel ganged up on or anything of that nature...there's so much to learn and understand about drug abuse, addiction, medication, pain management, when to draw the line, abuse vs dependence and on and on. I'm still learning and reading and I'm an RN of many years! I'm still sorting it out so that I can understand myself and hopefully help the next guy with what I've learned.
To me, the important thing is that you're doing well now and feeling comfortable in your own skin. Have a nice weekend and don't think about this for awhile...BUT do some research on Suboxone so you know about it. There's much to learn and then pop back with questions for weaver or whomever...it's not a pain med although I know it's used that way once in awhile. Check on it!
I did answer your questions, but this post turned out to be about something different. If you want to help this woman, have her read, or you can print, the suboxone/subutex FAQs at the bottom right of this page. If she and you are more educated about bupenorphine, you will be more ready to deal with the situation when it arises. When something gets under my skin, I always think it's hitting a nerve of the truth. Good luck to you both.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Is this lady getting sub from the doctor? How much is she taking and how long? How long was she on the other opiates? Is she trying to taper down? Does she have any help at home when she comes completely off these? Does she have any other medical issues? Will she be getting some recovery care once she is off? Does she have a good support system in place? These are just a few of the questions that need to be answered. When you get this then you will have a starting point.
HI Vicki. I had a busy night, but thought of you and this stuff from time to time. Here is what I've decided - I was prideful. As I reflect, all I see is my male pride spewing out. I'm being serious. I'm sorry to you and everyone. If a handful of you are saying it's one way, and I'm a lone voice trying to acquit myself or whatever, I know (not feel) but know, there are things in my life I have to look at... usually big time.
I have a busy weekend and week ahead, so I may not be on much, but I hope you guys can forgive me, think positive thoughts and prayers, and stay encouraged yourselves. I'm deleting my journal. Another irony in that is that I never intended to be a person to walk her though getting off of suboxone. I was really just asking for some background, and wondering IF I should even encourage her to quit it, since she doesn't have chronic pain. She is on it from coming off of opiate addiction. I guess I didn't provide enough information, and insinuated I would be her therapist or counselor...
I'll stay on guard. I will talk to you later.
David
I have a busy weekend and week ahead, so I may not be on much, but I hope you guys can forgive me, think positive thoughts and prayers, and stay encouraged yourselves. I'm deleting my journal. Another irony in that is that I never intended to be a person to walk her though getting off of suboxone. I was really just asking for some background, and wondering IF I should even encourage her to quit it, since she doesn't have chronic pain. She is on it from coming off of opiate addiction. I guess I didn't provide enough information, and insinuated I would be her therapist or counselor...
I'll stay on guard. I will talk to you later.
David
Holding on to guilt wont fix the past, just like worrying wont fix the future but both of them will ruin today!
I'll have to think about that. But I did say "in the past" I would have thought to take an oxy and "meant" because the toll of having a cold, having the back pain, being on my feet all day with these kids, etc. etc. is how I could even do my job. To me (and I could be way off) it was how I got prescribed in the first place. My quality of life had so deteriated, I couldn't reach down and pick up my own kids. I literally said to my doctor, "You have to help me," and never even had heard the term opiate or oxycontin. But I digress...
I need to think about what you wrote. Thank you for writing it.
I need to think about what you wrote. Thank you for writing it.
You know, I'm honestly trying to understand your position. Is it the label of addict that bugs you?? I don't think anyone branded you at all David. I've just never seen that on the forum and it's confusing to me that you feel that way.
I'll say this: Personally, I've learned not to name an addict. It's not my place but the place of the person speaking, in this case YOU. Now, there are ways of letting another know you're an addict without ever using the label. It's in the words David. When you use words or terms like "psychological withdrawal" or "temptation" in reference to the pain meds, it's very telling whether you're aware of it or not. When you use the word "victim" it's also telling. You see, generally, non addicts don't speak that way. Dependant people don't speak that way. The focus is usually on the physical without mention of mental difficulties. I'll give you a perfect example of this and I'm sure she won't mind: MaryCarmel. I wish she would weigh in here. She's a chronic pain patient. Her meds did not get filled on time at one point and along came a Saturday morning and she was in terrible shape, physically withdrawing, hurting, and came to this forum for help. We helped her and she got through her struggles with withdrawal, eventually weaned herself off all pain meds, and only uses PRN now. There is no question in my mind that she was dependant on those meds but never once did I think she was an addict. It was all in what she said. It was all in the words David.
So, I think there's a hang up with terms and labels here. It's great that you're not an addict and that you're managing without pain meds. But, when you talk of having a cold and thinking about taking an oxy to help through the day...that sends a clear message of abuse whether you realize or not. Can you see that? We all know that oxy is not for colds...so there's a distinction and it's kind of coming from your own words.
I really hate to see you in any kind of pain here and it's sad how this all came to this point with you. Let me ask you: What do you see as the breakdown here? That you got labeled as an addict? Is that so bad? Or that we didn't understand your position? To me, it looks like you had a pretty big problem getting off those pills, chronic pain aside, and now you're denying all of those months. If that's true just say so but it just doesn't look that way.
It is entirely possible that with all the ups and downs of the past couple of years, you've had a light bulb moment and your desire or even need for pain meds has diminished. It happens and it's great if that's happened. But, right now, please understand that all WE have to go on are your words...
I'll say this: Personally, I've learned not to name an addict. It's not my place but the place of the person speaking, in this case YOU. Now, there are ways of letting another know you're an addict without ever using the label. It's in the words David. When you use words or terms like "psychological withdrawal" or "temptation" in reference to the pain meds, it's very telling whether you're aware of it or not. When you use the word "victim" it's also telling. You see, generally, non addicts don't speak that way. Dependant people don't speak that way. The focus is usually on the physical without mention of mental difficulties. I'll give you a perfect example of this and I'm sure she won't mind: MaryCarmel. I wish she would weigh in here. She's a chronic pain patient. Her meds did not get filled on time at one point and along came a Saturday morning and she was in terrible shape, physically withdrawing, hurting, and came to this forum for help. We helped her and she got through her struggles with withdrawal, eventually weaned herself off all pain meds, and only uses PRN now. There is no question in my mind that she was dependant on those meds but never once did I think she was an addict. It was all in what she said. It was all in the words David.
So, I think there's a hang up with terms and labels here. It's great that you're not an addict and that you're managing without pain meds. But, when you talk of having a cold and thinking about taking an oxy to help through the day...that sends a clear message of abuse whether you realize or not. Can you see that? We all know that oxy is not for colds...so there's a distinction and it's kind of coming from your own words.
I really hate to see you in any kind of pain here and it's sad how this all came to this point with you. Let me ask you: What do you see as the breakdown here? That you got labeled as an addict? Is that so bad? Or that we didn't understand your position? To me, it looks like you had a pretty big problem getting off those pills, chronic pain aside, and now you're denying all of those months. If that's true just say so but it just doesn't look that way.
It is entirely possible that with all the ups and downs of the past couple of years, you've had a light bulb moment and your desire or even need for pain meds has diminished. It happens and it's great if that's happened. But, right now, please understand that all WE have to go on are your words...
I don't know, Vicki. I felt that there were enough "skull and crossbone" sentences that brought everything back to me, when I was simply seeking some general information. But, I realize I could have diffused that as well by ignoring it or some other softer answer...
You bring up an excellent point about the name of the forum, and all I can think right now is maybe it is going to be helpful to someone - anyone - in the future to find out if the person is an addict or dependent. Here's why I say that ...not to excuse or "rebrand" myself, but I have really taken notice of the new mainstream commercials for Opiate addiciton. The awareness is increasing. What I see is you have the business man, the stay at home mom, the nurse, etc. all falling prey to being prescribed something by one of the most trusted members of the community: their doctor.
From there, their bodies get "dependent" on the drug, say, for a year (just for scenario sake). When they decide to get off (for whatever reason), their physical and psychological withdrawl symptoms are no less painful and damaging that the person who took the exact same meds because they wanted to get high. But going back to the root, that nurse didn't have an overt desire to get high initially, she or he just got used to it in conjunction with his or her pain relief. Feeling the effects of the WDs, the person could very well reach a point where they not only do not want to go through that hell again, but since they never had an overarching want to get high in the first place, maybe staying off of it isn't such a battle. Thus, the one-size fits all, an addict is an addict, doesn't come into play.
I think I fell somewhere in the middle. I think I am/was/am a "dependaddict" - Sigh. It's not meant to be funny, but so many of your posts got me through some deep dark times, and I feel like I really have screwed things up. At the same time, I do not feel the need to do an about face regarding my feelings about this junk. They are part of who I am now. If I was a poser who got roped into the label of addict, fine. If I'm an addict in denial, time will tell.
Something worth keeping or learning has to come from all of this. Maybe not today or this week or this month, but maybe some day.
You bring up an excellent point about the name of the forum, and all I can think right now is maybe it is going to be helpful to someone - anyone - in the future to find out if the person is an addict or dependent. Here's why I say that ...not to excuse or "rebrand" myself, but I have really taken notice of the new mainstream commercials for Opiate addiciton. The awareness is increasing. What I see is you have the business man, the stay at home mom, the nurse, etc. all falling prey to being prescribed something by one of the most trusted members of the community: their doctor.
From there, their bodies get "dependent" on the drug, say, for a year (just for scenario sake). When they decide to get off (for whatever reason), their physical and psychological withdrawl symptoms are no less painful and damaging that the person who took the exact same meds because they wanted to get high. But going back to the root, that nurse didn't have an overt desire to get high initially, she or he just got used to it in conjunction with his or her pain relief. Feeling the effects of the WDs, the person could very well reach a point where they not only do not want to go through that hell again, but since they never had an overarching want to get high in the first place, maybe staying off of it isn't such a battle. Thus, the one-size fits all, an addict is an addict, doesn't come into play.
I think I fell somewhere in the middle. I think I am/was/am a "dependaddict" - Sigh. It's not meant to be funny, but so many of your posts got me through some deep dark times, and I feel like I really have screwed things up. At the same time, I do not feel the need to do an about face regarding my feelings about this junk. They are part of who I am now. If I was a poser who got roped into the label of addict, fine. If I'm an addict in denial, time will tell.
Something worth keeping or learning has to come from all of this. Maybe not today or this week or this month, but maybe some day.
Words from you. I hope and pray that you will be blessed.
the LORD is faithful to keep that which you have committed unto HIM
Yours in CHRIST
Debbie
the LORD is faithful to keep that which you have committed unto HIM
Yours in CHRIST
Debbie
David,
Absolutely not offended. Yes HE does work all things for good to those who love HIM, your tone and resolve in your words is very genuine and I do believe with all my heart that you have a peace in your heart that passes all understanding. I am truly happy for you. I have told you before that sometimes we have a thorn that doesn't get removed and we have to believe that HIS is grace is sufficient for thee. HE does prepare us for things to come. I know that my husband who has been clean for 2 years and 9 months has never gone to a meeting. His aftercare is prayer,lots of bible reading, ministering to other addicts at 2 local missions,(he is in the process of changing his credentials to the assembly of GODS),exercise and a resolve and faith that he is delivered.
I don't think you need to delete your account. I would like to hear from you and to know how you are doing. It is great to hear positive and encouraging
Absolutely not offended. Yes HE does work all things for good to those who love HIM, your tone and resolve in your words is very genuine and I do believe with all my heart that you have a peace in your heart that passes all understanding. I am truly happy for you. I have told you before that sometimes we have a thorn that doesn't get removed and we have to believe that HIS is grace is sufficient for thee. HE does prepare us for things to come. I know that my husband who has been clean for 2 years and 9 months has never gone to a meeting. His aftercare is prayer,lots of bible reading, ministering to other addicts at 2 local missions,(he is in the process of changing his credentials to the assembly of GODS),exercise and a resolve and faith that he is delivered.
I don't think you need to delete your account. I would like to hear from you and to know how you are doing. It is great to hear positive and encouraging
Debbie, you are one of two people I thought about the most. I know we've even exchanged pictures in the past, stories of family, etc. I know you know God's word. I thought to email you to ask you if I was being overtly prideful in my responses, but I think I know the answer. I can't refute what you said about me posting such negative responses the past year and a half, but I can say before the Lord, so much of it was mental guilt for slipping here or there. And I think I'm beginning to understand that the thinking is for addiction, it only takes a slip up here or there, or rationalizing occasional use to take you down the true slippery slope. I think I get that, and I will be watchful for that.
But Debbie, I know you've prayed for me and written prayers, and if we really believe God's word, how many places does it say things like, "Is anything to hard for the Lord?" or "What is impossible with man, is possible with God," or "God works all things together for good to those that love Him and are called according to His purposes." What if God has brought me to an authentic place of clarity and resolve, because I'm going to be diagnosed with cancer this year, and will want to spend my remaining days with my wife and 4 kids in richness and quality of life? What if He's doing a work to take us to the mission field in a 3rd world country?
What I'm asking is (and I know I've fumbled through all of this), isn't it possible that God allowed me to go through a season of 2.5 years of this junk, and is ready to do something with this pain and experience? I think of Moses' 40 years, Paul's time after conversion in blindness and in the desert, etc.
Or, I'm wrong. I'm dillusional and I'll be in a pain clinic by October doing more than ever before. I just can't make heads or tails of why my resolve feels and is so strong. I was offered mood meds and other pain meds like Xanax and Cymbalta, but I refused. I've never swallowed one of those. I'm not on some other kind of high. In fact, I've had a head cold since Weds and it's only gotten worse. In the recent past, I would have said the only way I can get through the teaching day would be to take and Oxy, and that is was fine since I have a cold. Now, I have a 24oz container of O.J. and a wife and friends praying for me because our play continues to run tonight. In other words, if ever I would have justified taking Oxy, it would have been this week, and I wouldn't have even thought of Oxy had I not logged in to inquire about Suboxone for that lady.
I'm sorry if you're one of the ones I offended as well. I'm actively trying to permanently delete my account, but have not heard a word back yet. I feel as though I did hurt some people who are already hurting, and battle a fierce battle every day. I never meant to do that. But I do claim Romans 8:28 again, and think I definitely learned a lot in the last 36 hours.
But Debbie, I know you've prayed for me and written prayers, and if we really believe God's word, how many places does it say things like, "Is anything to hard for the Lord?" or "What is impossible with man, is possible with God," or "God works all things together for good to those that love Him and are called according to His purposes." What if God has brought me to an authentic place of clarity and resolve, because I'm going to be diagnosed with cancer this year, and will want to spend my remaining days with my wife and 4 kids in richness and quality of life? What if He's doing a work to take us to the mission field in a 3rd world country?
What I'm asking is (and I know I've fumbled through all of this), isn't it possible that God allowed me to go through a season of 2.5 years of this junk, and is ready to do something with this pain and experience? I think of Moses' 40 years, Paul's time after conversion in blindness and in the desert, etc.
Or, I'm wrong. I'm dillusional and I'll be in a pain clinic by October doing more than ever before. I just can't make heads or tails of why my resolve feels and is so strong. I was offered mood meds and other pain meds like Xanax and Cymbalta, but I refused. I've never swallowed one of those. I'm not on some other kind of high. In fact, I've had a head cold since Weds and it's only gotten worse. In the recent past, I would have said the only way I can get through the teaching day would be to take and Oxy, and that is was fine since I have a cold. Now, I have a 24oz container of O.J. and a wife and friends praying for me because our play continues to run tonight. In other words, if ever I would have justified taking Oxy, it would have been this week, and I wouldn't have even thought of Oxy had I not logged in to inquire about Suboxone for that lady.
I'm sorry if you're one of the ones I offended as well. I'm actively trying to permanently delete my account, but have not heard a word back yet. I feel as though I did hurt some people who are already hurting, and battle a fierce battle every day. I never meant to do that. But I do claim Romans 8:28 again, and think I definitely learned a lot in the last 36 hours.
David- I just can't see where anyone told you not to reach out to the lady on sub. It just was not said and I don't know where you're getting that. I read where IBK suggested that you BE CAREFUL when reaching out to another addict. There's a big difference there and an obvious distinction.
You seem to be annoyed by the use of the word addict, as well. I guess it was an assumption on all of our parts that you are an addict. It certainly appeared that way from your previous struggles and a common theme in your posts. In addition, the name of this forum is "Addiction: Substance Abuse." So, I think it was a reasonable assumption on all of our parts.
I will never believe that anyone who responded to you did not have your best interest in mind. That's just not how this forum functions. And as far as the trackers go: No one said they were mandatory and personally the only one I ever look at is my own. I use the tracker purely for psychological purposes and it works in a positive way for me.
This thread sure disintigrated and it's kind of sad to read at this point...but I don't think that was ever the intention at all. Again, no one told you not to help the lady on sub. It just didn't happen and that seems to be the crux of the issue here.
I am also happy for you that you have found peace. It's what we hope for in this struggle.
You seem to be annoyed by the use of the word addict, as well. I guess it was an assumption on all of our parts that you are an addict. It certainly appeared that way from your previous struggles and a common theme in your posts. In addition, the name of this forum is "Addiction: Substance Abuse." So, I think it was a reasonable assumption on all of our parts.
I will never believe that anyone who responded to you did not have your best interest in mind. That's just not how this forum functions. And as far as the trackers go: No one said they were mandatory and personally the only one I ever look at is my own. I use the tracker purely for psychological purposes and it works in a positive way for me.
This thread sure disintigrated and it's kind of sad to read at this point...but I don't think that was ever the intention at all. Again, no one told you not to help the lady on sub. It just didn't happen and that seems to be the crux of the issue here.
I am also happy for you that you have found peace. It's what we hope for in this struggle.
Thank you for this. I was really expecting this kind of response when I posted initially, but I am getting more and more thankful for everything else transpiring. I have been checking myself at every turn. You said it all much more simpler than my mealy-mouthed rants. Yes, I agree that one size doesn't fit all, and I have dumped the guilt. Not arrived. Still on guard.
Hello david,
When I initially saw this post last night I must honestly say I was a bit suprised. As I remember for the last year and a half that I have followed your posts they were always about your struggles and pain. Sometimes justifying your use because of your job working with inner city children.
I think this might have been one of the only threads where you were not struggling.that is what caught me off guard.
I have always encouraged you in the things of the LORD and to rely on HIS strength,grace and mercy. Do I believe that the LORD. can deliver from whatever hinders and binds? Absolutely. If not what we believe would be in vain. I am truly happy that you have found peace. That you are ready to reach out and help others with the knowledge that you have in the LORD.
I am glad that you have continued to use exercise and otc meds to find relief from your pain.
I know the LORD is able to do great and mighty things.
Be blessed
Debbie
When I initially saw this post last night I must honestly say I was a bit suprised. As I remember for the last year and a half that I have followed your posts they were always about your struggles and pain. Sometimes justifying your use because of your job working with inner city children.
I think this might have been one of the only threads where you were not struggling.that is what caught me off guard.
I have always encouraged you in the things of the LORD and to rely on HIS strength,grace and mercy. Do I believe that the LORD. can deliver from whatever hinders and binds? Absolutely. If not what we believe would be in vain. I am truly happy that you have found peace. That you are ready to reach out and help others with the knowledge that you have in the LORD.
I am glad that you have continued to use exercise and otc meds to find relief from your pain.
I know the LORD is able to do great and mighty things.
Be blessed
Debbie
Hi Hiskidd.. we have never spoken before but I have read your entire thread and your journal.. It seems you have a beef with the trackers. This is ok as we all can not like the same things and we are not a one size fit all society.. My tracker is wrong It says I have more days then I do so I pay no attention to it. There is no question on me being a addict our not.. Right now I take 3 norco a day that are doled out to me by my husband. although others may view me as active I do not. I'm not fiending I'm not taking more then prescribed I have legit pain and it can be excruciating. So I had to deal with it.. One should not have to suffer to be clean.. There are other ways to manage Yes even addiction.. I just wanted to chime in as One size does not fit all.. I also wanted to say I have read all your post in the past and it sound like you have dumped the guilt you had carried I'm Happy for you. Guilt is a horrible emotion to feel.. as for your friend I will pray for her.. Guard yourself ok as You never know what event in anthers life can trigger those in your own.. In recovery for 4 years this Oct. 3.. Not squeaky clean but not fiending either.. lesa
This was like the 3rd comment I ever received on here... wasn't she right about all that really matters?
hiskidd
Dec 21, 2010
To: LeaAnn807
Thanks for replying. The recipe had some comments that seemed helpful as well. All I can say right now is "I'll try." I meant to mention in my post that my oxy was taken orally as prescribed for back pain issues, but addicted is addicted right?
LeaAnn807
Dec 21, 2010
Right! Or at least dependent. Really all that matters is that you get off of it safely. And you can do this! You have to keep a positive attitude all the way through, and be sure you have some good support!
hiskidd
Dec 21, 2010
To: LeaAnn807
Thanks for replying. The recipe had some comments that seemed helpful as well. All I can say right now is "I'll try." I meant to mention in my post that my oxy was taken orally as prescribed for back pain issues, but addicted is addicted right?
LeaAnn807
Dec 21, 2010
Right! Or at least dependent. Really all that matters is that you get off of it safely. And you can do this! You have to keep a positive attitude all the way through, and be sure you have some good support!
Dane, I went back and read a lot of what I wrote. None of it is inaccurate. It didn't take long for my mindset to become guilty (and I was encouraged to reset my tracker each time, and that was my experience), because I had "slipped up" and taken pain meds for 2 days here or 3 days there - for pain.
I realized - for me - that I should have kept my original tracker. I let myself be classified an addict, and maybe I am. But I know all along I've talked to men, and leaders face to face who would ask me very straight-forward questions to see if I had "true addict" behavior. I'm not trying to act like I was never here. I was! I was sick, scared, full of anxiety, restless legs, couldn't sleep, fatal in my thoughts, but so much of it was me putting extra pressure on myself when I would do something as small as reset my tracker. I just don't think that is a good measuring stick for the totality of a person's wellness or wholeness anymore. I feel that it pushed me down farther. Kind of like the person who diets, slips up, and feels horrible because they binged. They tell themselves that the time they spent on the diet was for NOTHING. That their effort didn't matter, and their self-worth gets worse and worse and eventually they dump the diet.
And Dane, please try and hear my heart, if I thought that as of today I was truly "only" 40 whatever days "clean" from "opiate addiction," I probably would throw in the towel. If I discounted how much better 2011 was for me, and how 2012 has far surpassed that and whittled it all down to the tracker time, I would be crushed. All that has transpired - the negative included - has really caused me to see just how far I've come. I'm actually glad that things bothered me enough to want to defend myself. There's no way I would have defended myself at the start of 2011. I would have taken those posts, and said, "What a hypocrite I am. I'm a mess. I'm worthless. My wife deserves a better life. My kids deserve better. They'd be better off with the life insurance money..." and on and on. Then I would have said for sure, "Lady, I can't help you," which is to say, "I won't even try to help you."
My self-worth just isn't there anymore. I still have pain. I still have financial trouble. I still want other things in life, want to provide other things for my family, and I still worry. I still sin. I still ask God to forgive me and help me not repeat whatever it was. But I do not lay in a ball wanting to die, and I haven't gotten that bad in a long time, and I don't plan to ever go back.
And again, all of this - even the misconstrued parts - are helping firm up the resolve. I'm shaking my head and trying to understand a lot of it, but I know it's a learning experience, and God won't waste it. He'll use it at some point, for me, or for someone else that crosses my path.
I realized - for me - that I should have kept my original tracker. I let myself be classified an addict, and maybe I am. But I know all along I've talked to men, and leaders face to face who would ask me very straight-forward questions to see if I had "true addict" behavior. I'm not trying to act like I was never here. I was! I was sick, scared, full of anxiety, restless legs, couldn't sleep, fatal in my thoughts, but so much of it was me putting extra pressure on myself when I would do something as small as reset my tracker. I just don't think that is a good measuring stick for the totality of a person's wellness or wholeness anymore. I feel that it pushed me down farther. Kind of like the person who diets, slips up, and feels horrible because they binged. They tell themselves that the time they spent on the diet was for NOTHING. That their effort didn't matter, and their self-worth gets worse and worse and eventually they dump the diet.
And Dane, please try and hear my heart, if I thought that as of today I was truly "only" 40 whatever days "clean" from "opiate addiction," I probably would throw in the towel. If I discounted how much better 2011 was for me, and how 2012 has far surpassed that and whittled it all down to the tracker time, I would be crushed. All that has transpired - the negative included - has really caused me to see just how far I've come. I'm actually glad that things bothered me enough to want to defend myself. There's no way I would have defended myself at the start of 2011. I would have taken those posts, and said, "What a hypocrite I am. I'm a mess. I'm worthless. My wife deserves a better life. My kids deserve better. They'd be better off with the life insurance money..." and on and on. Then I would have said for sure, "Lady, I can't help you," which is to say, "I won't even try to help you."
My self-worth just isn't there anymore. I still have pain. I still have financial trouble. I still want other things in life, want to provide other things for my family, and I still worry. I still sin. I still ask God to forgive me and help me not repeat whatever it was. But I do not lay in a ball wanting to die, and I haven't gotten that bad in a long time, and I don't plan to ever go back.
And again, all of this - even the misconstrued parts - are helping firm up the resolve. I'm shaking my head and trying to understand a lot of it, but I know it's a learning experience, and God won't waste it. He'll use it at some point, for me, or for someone else that crosses my path.
I forgot to mention, please go back and read what you wrote back in August. I am hoping it will help you understand addiction, your addiction, and the struggle that you did go through. IF you were just dependent than you would not have relapsed 40 days out after all the WD's are over with. I can honestly say that i am proud of you for hanging in and picking yourself up and got yourself clean, that in itself shows your strength and determination. Again, i wish you the best.
Sorry it took so long to see your post, I've had the flu. People stay on subs for many reasons. Yes, there is a high, but you are less high than before, so you can't tell you are high until you stop. Doctors often keep people on subs for a long time to help a patient form new habits: new friends, eliminate connections, establish aftercare, etc...I found that the subs detached me from my emotions. They gave me energy, but created no euphoria. Your friend should not be convinced by someone else to stop taking them. An addict has to decide for themselves when the time is right. A person can function normally on subs, as long as they have their daily dose. My questions are: How long has she been on them, at what dose? Why does she say she needs to keep taking subs? Often times, people are taking way more than is necessary.
As you know, it is difficult to help an addict if they don't want help. You seem to be very compassionate, but we must learn to accept the things we cannot change. Your example of sobriety is the attraction that works best. Good luck.
As you know, it is difficult to help an addict if they don't want help. You seem to be very compassionate, but we must learn to accept the things we cannot change. Your example of sobriety is the attraction that works best. Good luck.
I'm not turning my back on anyone. Wasn't the point that someone was asking me for help? I'm not on an addiction crusade. If the lady needed help with car trouble I would have asked mechanic friends. I've been too busy to log back into med help lately, and when she told me her problems weren't car troubles, but suboxone troubles, I asked a simple question.
You're post reads like you would prefer someone to be sick, weak-minded, and feeling helpless. You write as though it bothers you that someone could be in my shoes - which are not "better" shoes so don't put words in my mouth. You're the second person at least that whinely says, "But I guess you're better than us." I never said or thought that. I said it ***** that the judgment of me not being able to help another was passed ON ME so quickly based on my tracker.
I had never even heard of Oxycontin or Opiate addiction before December of 2010. I had never taken a pill before Nov of 2009. It's 2012. Maybe if I had had a long 5, 10, or 15 year haul with this stuff, I could see clearly what was being said. Maybe I would have said to the lady, "I can't possible help you because it's the blind leading the blind." But I just can't say that. I don't crave any pain meds. I can't help that as of now, I don't overthink it, I don't wonder how things would be better if I could just get off, I don't struggle right now.
And I would have NEVER brought any of that up if I hadn't so quickly been given skull and crossbones about helping another human being. In fact, given the choice, I think I would rather struggle for 5 more years, relapsing, falling, etc. all while helping others in multiple areas, than be "clean" for 5 years, and not doing anything or much of anything to help my fellow man. And no, I'm not saying people on here aren't helping others, but you have no clue about what I've done the past 15 years of my life. How many countries I've been on mission trips to, how many counseling sessions, how much money I've given, etc. Not in my power, or strength, but through God's mercy.
So if you want to just read this as an arrogant person abandoning friends, I don't know what I could possibly do to change your perspective. But I'm not going to lie and do an about face to say yes, I'm in shambles, yes my life is hard, yes it *****, just to "fit in" or be sick enough for you or anyone to want to help me. I would have thought the same "love" and "help" would apply to me whether I felt like I was dangling on the edge of the cliff, or if I felt I was holding the rope pulling others to safety. When you think about it, what's the difference?
You're post reads like you would prefer someone to be sick, weak-minded, and feeling helpless. You write as though it bothers you that someone could be in my shoes - which are not "better" shoes so don't put words in my mouth. You're the second person at least that whinely says, "But I guess you're better than us." I never said or thought that. I said it ***** that the judgment of me not being able to help another was passed ON ME so quickly based on my tracker.
I had never even heard of Oxycontin or Opiate addiction before December of 2010. I had never taken a pill before Nov of 2009. It's 2012. Maybe if I had had a long 5, 10, or 15 year haul with this stuff, I could see clearly what was being said. Maybe I would have said to the lady, "I can't possible help you because it's the blind leading the blind." But I just can't say that. I don't crave any pain meds. I can't help that as of now, I don't overthink it, I don't wonder how things would be better if I could just get off, I don't struggle right now.
And I would have NEVER brought any of that up if I hadn't so quickly been given skull and crossbones about helping another human being. In fact, given the choice, I think I would rather struggle for 5 more years, relapsing, falling, etc. all while helping others in multiple areas, than be "clean" for 5 years, and not doing anything or much of anything to help my fellow man. And no, I'm not saying people on here aren't helping others, but you have no clue about what I've done the past 15 years of my life. How many countries I've been on mission trips to, how many counseling sessions, how much money I've given, etc. Not in my power, or strength, but through God's mercy.
So if you want to just read this as an arrogant person abandoning friends, I don't know what I could possibly do to change your perspective. But I'm not going to lie and do an about face to say yes, I'm in shambles, yes my life is hard, yes it *****, just to "fit in" or be sick enough for you or anyone to want to help me. I would have thought the same "love" and "help" would apply to me whether I felt like I was dangling on the edge of the cliff, or if I felt I was holding the rope pulling others to safety. When you think about it, what's the difference?
I personally think you are getting yourself all worked up over nothing. Nobody said anything about the trackers, in fact i will tell you that when i fell my friends on here NEVER told me to reset my tracker, instead i was told to pull myself up and get back on track, nothing but encougement, and the same people that helped you, helped me, and i am in shock that you can just turn your back on the folks that have had nothing but your back. I just do not get it!!! As for having longer clean time, just like anything in life, the more experience we have the more educated and or experienced we are. I am only 5 months clean and feel that i am not anywhere near capable of helping others they way "Our friends" helped us, its simple i do not have all that clean time and it takes our bodies many many months of healing, but hey i guess you are just better than everyone else. As you make it very clear that your not an addict, you are educated, you found the Lord, etc..... FYI, addiction does not discriminate, we all come from different socially and economicaly different backgrounds and not one person is better than the other. All your friends that you are pushing away were ONLY looking out for you, and your sobriety, but hey i guess you do not need any support as you believe you have conquered sobriety, and do not need an further assistance and that your cured. David, this is a lifetime battle and something that you will always need to be aware of, i wish you luck .
I am beyond sorry that you felt attacked. I think I understand what you are saying as well. It's just to hard to articulate. I was sick. I was. But I never crushed pills, payed more than a co-pay for a prescription, sought other's prescriptions, etc. So, yes, I do feel that I was "Dependent" but I still got sick, still had anxiety, still could empathize with the mindset, emotions, and physical symptoms of addiction. At least I think so.
I didn't/don't mean to demean trackers. But it's what some checked for me first, before making a spot decision on whether or not I would "qualify" to "help" an addict. I'm not qualified. Much of what she said, citing NA and AA, problems within those groups, I couldn't relate to. But I could related to her hurting. Her uttterly fatalistic mindset, and it did bother me that I would be discouraged from helping her. I understand the intentions, and even what you just wrote sheds more light.
And maybe I keep thinking about it all because you all are right, and I am wrong. Maybe a hard fall is around the corner. I'm very sad that I made people who did truly help me feel discounted in any way. That was not my intention. The who last two days have been a lot of self reflection, but I would say that it is motivating me even more to remember if/when the hard temptation comes - that these posts will serve as even greater factors for not taking opiates as a way of dealing with chronic pain.
A million times, I'm sorry. I mean it.
I didn't/don't mean to demean trackers. But it's what some checked for me first, before making a spot decision on whether or not I would "qualify" to "help" an addict. I'm not qualified. Much of what she said, citing NA and AA, problems within those groups, I couldn't relate to. But I could related to her hurting. Her uttterly fatalistic mindset, and it did bother me that I would be discouraged from helping her. I understand the intentions, and even what you just wrote sheds more light.
And maybe I keep thinking about it all because you all are right, and I am wrong. Maybe a hard fall is around the corner. I'm very sad that I made people who did truly help me feel discounted in any way. That was not my intention. The who last two days have been a lot of self reflection, but I would say that it is motivating me even more to remember if/when the hard temptation comes - that these posts will serve as even greater factors for not taking opiates as a way of dealing with chronic pain.
A million times, I'm sorry. I mean it.
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I do know that it's a little silly to take Sub after the wd's are long gone. So, it sounds like this woman is using sub as any other opiate which is NOT its intended use. Also, it's used in conjunction with recovery care.
I'm glad you're doing well. I thought you came here in the beginning as an addict looking for help but I must have confused you with someone else! Good luck with this lady and you might do some research of your own about sub. The Internet is FULL of info!