Tolerence build up

[Dee]

Maybe someone can answer this for me. I was doing like alot of you from what i'm reading, going from Dr. to Dr. in order to get enough pills. I was taking vicodin and norco for about 3 years and then one Dr. was giving me ultram so i was taking them in between the other 2 just to try to make them last untill the next rx. well the dr that was giving me ultram stopped giving them, my question is, is it possible that even though i'm  still taking the vicodin and norco,that i could be having withdrawls from not taking the ultram, because i haven't felt the same since i stopped the ultram.Or have i just gone to a different platue and built  more tolerence to the vicodin and norco to where my body is craving more. Please, if any one has gone through something similar i would love to hear from you.

[BrandonW]

Question from Dee: "well the dr that was giving me ultramUltram
Ultram er stopped giving them, my question is, is it possible that even though i'm  still taking the vicodinVicodin
Vicodin tuss and norco,that i could be having withdrawls from not taking the ultramUltram
Ultram er, because i haven't felt the same since i stopped the ultramUltram
Ultram er."---> My  opinion: Seeing that Ultram/Tramadol is a synthetic "narcotic-like" pain reliever I don't believe you would be having any real physiological withdrawals or a withdrawal syndrome from the Ultram.May be psychological.In addition,the reason is you're taking (2) narcotic opioids(Vicodin & Norco) in place of or after the Ultram.I've taken all three and used many snythetics and/or strong narcotics for chronic pain relief.The only comfort to withdrawal is "time" away from the dependency or addiction Perhaps some tranquilizers to help,but,of  course, there's the potencial for addiction to benzondiazepines also,Sincerely  Brandon.

[jmold3]

I would suggest and recommend speaking to someone on this forum:

http://www.addictionsearch.com/forums

[spook]

The tolerance is something you can get rid off,but heres the price-`more headaches`,you tried life without drugs,you tried all the drugs and now you have found one that,well used to work sort off,for a while anyway,I will give you the benefit of the any possible doubt and conclude you only used enough to stop the headaches and no more.So one may conclude that you have had all this world can offer you as far as its current medicinal technology goes,and that was temporary relief followed by an exacerbation of initial problem.Now your SPECIALIST would have forseen this,well I would have and I would have told you the facts about the situation you would eventually have to deal with,now given that you would have eaten ****(sorry I left the # out,whoops) on a stick to get pain relief,I think we have already answered that question before even asking it,yes you would have taken the drug knowing the consequences.
Now is the time to find out,what apart from the Barbiturate,Benzodiazepine withdrawals is the reason for the Headaches and this is where our science has failed us miserably,basically most of our drugs relieve the symptoms of our illness`s and do not cure the underlying cause,this is the harsh reality that keeps us humans striving for a better way to deal with what is basically in your case a congenital genetic trait,I presume your Specialist has not found the cause and or cannot fix it?,so far all is fair in love and war,can you see another Neurologist and get the latest most up to date brain imaging tests done and locate the lesion/s and undergo Neurosurgery?while trying your hardest to spiral backward from your drug dependence.or are /is the source/s of your headaches a COMPLETE mystery?.Now you get back on you feet and keep trying,that is all one can do in life,please do not give up,YET,give the medical profession and yourself another chance.

[cindi]

I do feel for you, I had suffered from severe headaches a long time ago.  I guess I just "outgrew" them.. If your Dr. does not have a problem with you taking 5 or 6 Fioricets a day and you are comfortable with it did you ever think of gradually tapering down to 5 0r 6 a day?   This is better than the alternative which is cold turkey unsafely.  Are you able to taper them?  Are you willing to taper them?  You have to make the committment to do it though.  Is the medicine really helping your headaches? Like spook said, headaches and withdrawal go hand in hand.  Maybe it's re-evaluation time.  Just some food for thought.  But, I do know what you are going through.  Most of us in this forum have been there. It's a hard thing.   Good Luck    Cindi

[spook]

Sorry for being so Factual and unemotional,please keep posting if you are not ready to DETOX under professional supervision as an inpatient,it helps talking about these things,It is difficult to stop the combination of drugs you are taking because Headache is also a withdrawal symptom,so you must feel trapped and in terrible pain,make sure you do not to your doctor/s about your excessive use(they will cut off your supply),as you are taking dosages that will not alleviate anything more than the Withdrawal symptom headaches you are getting.They are combining with the actual migraine and thus the terrible pain,Do you ever take your medication for pleasure,are you abusing it?.

[HedHurtz]

I know the harsh realities of my addiction, unfortunately knowing them is NOT the issue for me. I started taking the Fioricet about 6 years ago (or so) after I was finally diagnosed with Chronic Headache Syndrome. I have seen at least 15 docs and have taken for headaches:
Imitrex (injections, nasal & tabs),Cafergot,Toradol,Midrin,Tyl #3,Darvocet,Zomig,Maxalt,Fiorinal w/cod.
I'm sure there's more.....
After an allergic reaction to codeine, I tried Fioricet.  It worked! By then, I was IN HEAVEN....A MED THAT WORKED! If he would have told me to eat sh#t on a stick, I would have. This doctor that has been scripting me this is one of the best Neurologist/Neurosurgeons in the WORLD. Why wouldn't I trust him. Now I have built up a tolerence!
Here's the deal, I went to see him today and I asked him if there is anything else that I could take for breakthrough headaches, so I wouldn't have to take "so many" fioricet (no, I didn't tell him I take 10 a day)BUT, I did tell him I think I take too many! He told me that 5 or 6 a day is fine, because it's working for me! So, of course, I think "what's 4 more"! I'm so confused. I'm glad I can get this off my chest FINALLY!
THANK YOU

[cindi]

Hi, did you ever think about see an addiction specialist, c onsider a professional detox clinic?  As spook mentioned barb withdrawal is dangerous so maybe consider the safest method. And talking about ending it all?  Why would yo do that when there is help available..it is a matter of humbling yourself and asking for that 4 letter word  "HELP". Hope this helps a bit   good luck, take care   cindi

[spook]

Basically you are addicted to a Barbiturate,so any other barbiturate will "take the edge" off the withdrawal symptoms and more!,Alcohol is cross tolerant to Barbiturates so they will attenuate the Withdrawals,Of course you know not to mix the two in large doses if you do ,you die.the end.(Jimi Hendrix style)
A strong Benzodiazepine will also suffice,I recommend Klonopin.
You may of had no idea what you where addicted to,this is a serious drug,and you will have to think about what you are doing.
First and most important Barbiturate detox should be done In hospital from large doses such as you are taking,lest you get more than a head ache,but if you insist on messing around and continuing to use/abuse,best to just use alcohol inbetween scripts,but never combine it with your medication.
I am in Australia so do not have a list of brand name Barbs avail in USA,besides they are hard to get anywhere,you may have to settle for valium,Xanax,mogadon,etc, you know Benzodiazepine Sedative hypnotics(insomnia),`antianxiety` agents,ask your Doctor/s for some sleeping pills or something for Anxiety.
Because of your enormous tolerance you will end up with a Benzo Habit as well,in fact you are in deep ****,take care.

[HedHurtz]

Well thanks for the advice, I guess?
I am a Chronic Headache sufferer and Yes, I know that I'm in deep ****. I don't drink when I have my meds. I actually do have a Xanax script, which once again, I only use when I'm out of meds. This really sucks! I have been suffering for 17 yrs with this and I guess basically, "I'm ******".....
Maybe I should just end it all!

[HedHurtz]

PS: Doctors never tell you about addiction as long as they solve the problem of the day!

[HedHurtz]

Hi, I'm new here and I've been reading posts that have "peaked" my interest(so to speak). I take Fioricet for migraines, I get 100 a mos. from one doc and sometimes I get more from outside sources. I take about 10 a day until I run out, then I feel like HELL until my next Doc's visit (unless I can get more). What takes the edge off of Butalbital addiction? I find myslf drinking. Can anyone give me advice? I tried to wean off and switch to other migraine meds, but NOTHING else works. I have tried everything from Imitrex injections to Zomig.......A to Z of sorts.
Thanks

[spook]

I do not even have a drug addiction problem but you make me feel good all the same.
I think this forum is confirming what I suspected and that is that people who like Opioids are generally very kind emotional sensitive people.

[cindi]

I agree with JB, I always repect the views and opinions of others, I suppose you could say I am very open minded and always interested in what others have to say.  Variety, the spice of life thing?  That is what makes the world go round.  But, On the other hand I personally feel that some mysteries are better off left alone.  Some questions cannot be answered and theories are just that, theories.We all have our own beliefs and theories and who's to say we are wrong or right?  It is what we are comfortable believing, our own personal comfort zone.   I have enjoyed reading all of these posts I am becoming very educated even though I don't understand most of what spook is saying, one again, the spice of life thing.  I guess my wiring is a little mismatched.  And Annie, Thank you for caring as much as you do,  the world could stand to use a whole lot more Annies.  I have had several posts where I have spilled my guts out and they have been deleted as soon as they are posted   Go figure.  Anyway, my point is this, I have never felt more comfortable or more at ease talking to people such as all of you, You, all of you are truly what makes the world go round   Love you all cindi

[Brighty]

I will be remembering you in my prayers regarding your upcoming surgery on Thursday. I pray that it will produce the best possible results for you and that you will be able to get relief from your pain. Take care of yourself and don't allow anything external to get you stressed... you have enough going on !! Love, Brighty

[Gloria]

I agree 100%.  Your input is always timely, valued, and thoughtful.  Warmest regards to you and your wife.  Maria

[PS >>>>Annie]

Hi!.....You must have been posting at the same time that I was posting to JB.  I will be having surgury this Thursday.  I'm glad you asked about my statement.  Good to hear from you, also.
I will probably not be on a whole lot next week, because of the surgury.  I told Brighty that I would not go into depths over Biblical Doctrine, as I was w/ Spook.  I agree w/ her, this is not a Spiritual Philosophy Forum; although, I will say this....I will never, and I mean never, deny anyone the truth and spiritual uplifting, IF THEY ASK.  If I had to do that.....then I could not post here anymore, because this is what I offer in the way of "help"; which, I believe can do no harm here.
It means so much to me to know I will be in your prayers.  This is what brought me back from the grave several years ago.  God bless you! Keep in touch.
Love,
Annie

[PS >>>>Annie]

JB...Although I have been caught up in a tail spin, You and your wife have been on my mind.  I do hope you will keep in touch during her treatments.  We want to be a source of support for you.  I felt realy bad when reading some of the post addressed to you and your wife, and realized that I had not responded to you in a while.  It's just that I had seen something going on here (between  the lines) that had to be dealt w/ from another point.
Ya know cancer has plagued my family...Also my best friend past away in "98, she was just 31 with 2 children the same age as mine.  One of my grandparents died last year from Cancer.  My Dad had skin cancer (is ok now) just a while ago.  I could go on and on.  There have been many, and many have won the battle.  It's a terrible thing.  Your wife is fortunate to have you.  I feel fortunate to have known you even if its just through a screen in the form of words.

Your comment means a great deal to me.  You have the wisdom of Solomon and a heart of gold.  Although I reveal my own heart a little more than I like, I will never be embarrassed of what I say here on this forum, because we all need to do that a little more.  The world would be a much better place!  Be strong and its ok to give me a little kick every now and then......My husband does....ha ha......Stay in touch!

[dee dee]

To Annie, What day is your surgery next week?I want to send a prayer your way. And of course all my best wishes.I don't read all the things in these post, just bits and pieces, so sometimes i'm confused on what i'm reading. I hope i'm reading wrong if you said your not going to post here because i like your input, or did you mean you wont be posting  due to your surgery?DeeDee

[PS >>>>Annie]

Hey sister......I don't have the plague you know..(Re: your post to Spook ^) I'm just kidding...I understand what you meant, and rightfuly so.  I joke around sometimes if ya noticed.  We all need a good laugh, don't we?  As I told JB, ok to give me a lil kick every now and then.....Just had a thought: I say we name you Forum Referee! lol
Peace sister and Love,
Annie (:

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I was raised not to argue about religion and politics.  There was a third thing but it escapes me(money?, raising kids?)  I just like to say that I am a spiritual person and leave it at that.  Our actions will always speak louder than our words in life.  I will listen to anyone's opinion with the same respect that I expect.  In being human, we are not right all the time nor are we wrong all the time either.  I value the input that others give me, use what I can and store the rest.  J.B.

[Brighty]

Kindly do not continue to include my name with anyone else's unless we are both wanting the same information... it is deceptive to readers that I would have the same concerns, questions, issues as Annie in this case. I do NOT and your post to both of us would indicate that I am pushing organized religion, asking you to justify your spiritual beliefs and so on... I have no clue what Dr. Steve's beliefs are nor have I ever questioned that either.... also, I have not professed to feel he is more or less qualified or correct in his replies than you or anyone else here. You did this in another thread today... address me and Annie in the same post.  I do not have the same desire as Annie to evangelize to you... in fact I have replied to her in such a way in another thread last night,to indicate I do not wish to receive information on HER beliefs either. I have sought to be non-judgemental and non-negative toward your comments and in fact have enjoyed your distinctive style and good information. But I do draw the line at you lumping me into your comments as they do NOT pertain to anything I have said or think. Please be more accurate and sensitive the next time you consider adding my name to someone else's concerns. Love, Brighty ( who has an ego )

[spook]

http://www.drsteve.org/intro2.html#g-d

Exactly if you can solve your addiction through God,spirit,or your own soul that is fine,but do not push an Organized Religion.You will notice I offer one possible explanation of life and I use Science and its methods to support my THEORIES.
Read about DR Steve he answers the questions too and is a Qualified "Addiction" Psychiatrist,have a look at his spiritual beliefs.
I know I must confuse people as Science and Spiritual matters seem to annililate each other and to my belief have not been adequately explained before on Neuropsychopharmacological premise,I am not a man of "faith",that I am certain of.

[PS >>>>Annie]

Just to set the record straight......I DO NOT PROMOTE ORGANIZED RELIGION. I repeat: I do not believe in organized religion.

.....or the cosmos  lol

[PS >>>>Annie]

WOW!  We sure have stirred up a mess.  Actually things were quite calm and tranquil, before all this.  You believe what you want, and I'll do the same.  Maybe we should stay far across the board from one another.  LOL

In closing I will leave you with this, along w/ my Goodbye:

He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him.  By this we know that we are in HIM. he who says he abides in Him ought himself walk just as He walked.  [ I John 2:4]

ANNIE  (: