Trying one more time.

[Ken , day two]

Hello all. I am back. And trying again. I just had to see if I could use again, and to my suprise, NOPE! Couldnt do it. DUH! But now I know that it gets worse each time that you go back out. At first, I got by with taking only 2-3 lortabs a day,WOO HOO, I thought this is great, I can get the same feeling for a whole lot less money if I just keep it to a couple a day. Well needless to say , that didnt last very long. After about the first week, I was up to 6-7 a day , Then 10-12 a day, and after three weeks it was 15-20 a day. And that is more than ever before. So I found out, that yes , it is a progressive disease.So now, the withdrawls are worse than last time. Oh well, I guess you get what you deserve.

[Lynn to Neena]

Ken, I was wondering how and what you were doing, the last time you posted you had 8 days clean and felt great. But sadly, like myself, you relapsed. You wanted one "for old times sake."  Doesn't work, bro. I should know. I am the queen of relapses. Can't go more than 2 days, cop 30,(percs), eat 30, feel like ****, detox, feel better, better, cop more, feel even worse, swear you'll NEVER do this again, on and on and on. Right? Now I am getting really scared because of this disease that I have, I'm so scared I will never get well and I'm scared of what I'm doing to my liver. Yet I continue to use. Sigh. How people can go months is beyond me. I've just resolved myself to the fact that I'll never get there. This monkey on my back is now strangling me. But I feel (a little) better knowing I'm not alone.

[Lynn to Neena]

Don't even go back to our posting in Sept. (Why can't I stop?) You'll make yourself sick like I just did because we've had this exact same conversation before. Chad was kind enough to offer long words of advice and wisdom, but here we go again. My problem is that I have the money and access to percs all the time, and as long as that continues, that is as long as I will. My thoughts are with you, Ken, when I saw your name my heart sank.

[vickyvortex]

I have been addicted to vicodin for over 10 years.  I have an enabler for a doctor who has even prescribed for me after I went into rehab.  There is no way to withdraw.  cold turkey does not work, the idiot doctors in rehab do not understand that physical addiction is different from mental, as in cocaine, etc.  You cannot treat the horrible cramps and physical pain with a valium.  I can't believe a heroin addict can get methadone, but a prescription drug addict, which has been proven to be worse, can't get any help.  I have heard of the rapid detox, which is expensive, but I have never heard of any results.  Anyone?

[FROM SAMANTHA TO PAM]

You may want to check around your area. Methodone is and can be used as a treatment for Vicodin addiction.

[Lynn to Neena]

Hey, I'm real worried about you. I know your not feeing well but you couldn't feel any worse than I did today. I wanted to take my head off and throw it against the wall! That was because I knew I only had 2 percs waiting for me at home and I had a dilemia--take them when I get home and be sick in the morning? Take one tonight and one tomorrow morning and I wouldn't feel either one? So I did what any other starving pill popper would--called a few people until I finally got some vicodin ES, (15 of them) which I've never tried before, they seemed to do the trick. Oh this lifestyle can be so exhausting, I wish it would all end. Let me know how your doing with your detox, if you feel up to it. C-ya.

[Gene to Joanne]

I really feel for all of you as I have been battling opiate addiction for about 10 years now.  Getting sober is not hard.  I used a detox facility, they used Methadone & it was fairly painless.  The hard part of course is staying sober!  Of all the drugs I abused, opiates are the only ones that i enjoyed all the way until I stopped.  I went through detox last July & there are so many situations where I miss the pills terribly.  When I'm in pain is a biggy as well as when I got sick & really missed using them to get rid of the feeling of malaise also known as feeling shitty.  

What has helped me to stay sober so far is Alcoholics Anonymous & Narcotics Anonymous as well as a good addiction counselor.  I went to AA/NA meetings almost every day for the first 3 months & I LOVE them.  I have met so many supportive, friendly, loving, down to earth people who share the disease of addiction with me.  Everyone I meet wants to help me stay sober.  At the first meeting that I went to, eleven people came up to me after it ended & gave me cards with their name & work/home phone numbers.  They all told me to call them anytime, day or night, even at 2:00 AM!  I was overwhelmed.  I'm not a very spiritual person but AA has become my higher power right now.
I have tried to get sober for 28 years ever since I started smoking pot.  I just couldn't do it by myself.  I know now that AA improved my chance for success a thousandfold.

When you get to the point as Ken described where your addiction controls your life, you have to take drastic action if you want to stay alive.
There is hope for you Lynn!  You just need help, you can't do it by yourself.

Good luck to everyone trying to tame the beast of addiction!

[randi]

Hi - I have been addicted to vicodin / soma / norco for almost 7 years and I am ready to stop!  I am scared of doing it because of the withdrawals - HELP!!  I am desperate to stop but can't afford treatment!

[Lynn to Neena]

I have a thought I'd like to share about life and wasting it away  chasing these stupid pills. Our life is not a scoop of ice cream where as if you drop the scoop you can go up to the counter and say, "please, can I have another?" You only get one scoop and that is how I am going to look at my life from now on. Thank you for your concern, Gene.

[joedice]

lynn & ken said it all.... ONE SCOOP IS ALL WE GET..IT starts with 2 go to 4 go to 6 till i,m up to 10-12 at a clip.. CONTROLLING MY LIFE ALSO..10 years of searching, seeking & sneeking trying to score is getting sickening...ive run out of opts too....best wishes were all in the same boat...all we can do is listen to each other and not lose hope...

[Dreaming87]

One scoop may be all we get but how do you tell your body that?  I don't know about you, but I feel like curling up & dying when I can't get something!  No energy, bad attitude and "what the hell do you want" are my middle name.  The addiction one gets from these pills is astounding!!  Every day I swear I won't get any, don't have the $$$, but, somehow, I manage and another day is chalked up to depending on these ******* pills!!
I need to go
Bye

[Susan]

I have been there sooo many times. What I found after my last bout with Vicodin (40 x day) sometimes more - was that the withdrawals lasted forever! No one in  my family knew my probelem. Very lonely. They thought i had the flu. However, the effects of Vicodin withdrawal didn't just go away in a week. It finally left my system after 2 months or so. The lethargy was the worst. I thought I had permanently screwed up my central nervous system completely since these effects continued after "the initial 5 -7 day" that is often quoted. I lived in the bathtub the first week with the horrible leg and back cramps, but this began to abate. But for almost 2 months I would still get spontaneous gooseflesh, occasion cramps. Finally the inertia began to get better. NEVER AGAIN will I take this stuff. I now take Imitrex for my  migraines. I never started out thinking I would get addicted to narcotics. My tolerance just got completely out of control and it took years to arrive at the large amount i eventually took. I never knew there were people just like me who struggle alone and not having anyone to turn to. What a relief to know I was not alone!

[Ken to Lynn and all others concerned]

I am still alive, and activly using, until tomorrow. At that time I will try one more time to detox. If not, I may just go inpatient. It will cost me my business, my freedom, and alot of money, but I will still have my life. And right now I dont feel much like living, but I am not that selfish. So tomorrow all of the pain begins again. Please say a prayer for me and all of us who suffer from this horrible disease. And I will do the same for all of you. If I dont ansewer for a few days its because I am sick, not because I am using, I post more while I am using than while I am not. But I will be here in the morning, and will check back tonight.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Good going, Ken! Remember that detox isn't the worst thing that can happen to you. It just seems like it right now. I hope you don't actually lose your business and freedom permanently. I know it feels panicky right now but just take care of numero uno today and the rest will get worked out later. Get well soon and keep us posted!

[Lynn to Neena]

Hey Ken, go for the inpatient! I had my bags packed and ready to go to a hospital in Connecticut where they use Buprenex for 4 days to clean you up. That is what they use for heroin detox, I'm surprised no one on this forum ever mentioned it. Anyway, I decided I could clean up on my own, which I did, for all of 2 days, then the phone rang and I was off and running (literally) to get more percs. I wish you well if thats what you decide to do. Let us know how it went.

[Greg says...]

Hello people!

Although I feel a little better than death I thought it might help others to know what has helped me a little through this ordeal. I came to this sight looking for advice on going through the withdrawal yucks.  I found that 1.Try a hot bath... I tried a shower but the water hitting my skin all over was beyond what I could stand. I could manage a shower by day three. 2. I elevated my feet so I could sleep.  I was laying on the floor when I threw my legs in a restless fit up onto the chair and it helped me to sleep ( for awhile ). 3. Coffee or better Tea.  For some reason hot tea w/good caffeine seemed to aide me. 4.  Do exactly what your body tells you.   If you are hot take off the covers, if cold wrap yourself up. I had a fan nearby for instant cool-offs.  Seems like common sense but I tried to fight the fits which led to more irritability. 5. Sleep alone and try to be alone.  Nothing is worse than excessive noise or snoring or basically anything other than what you can stand (which seems next to nothing anyway!)  Sleep in the spare room and get a sitter for the kids.  My well meaning spouse was more of a bother than a help.  This is my third experience kicking the pain killers. I suffer from back pain with one surgery behind and one ahead.  The pain always seems greater than the pain of withdrawals.  As I write this, though I will go through my next operation without the pills.  The relief isn't worth the withdrawals later.  Good Luck!  P.S.  Let's get a Bill of Rights together so Doctors have to inform patients up front about the possibilities of addictions.  Mine never told me until I was hooked!

[tom to Greg]

you know what back pain is like ... do you think a patient in agony is going to turn down pain meds because the doc says they're addictive? I know how I would answer that. You may have a point in terms of long-duration treatment plans. In my experience, doctors already do this. However, that pain, especially after, say, a weekend of agony, will probably speak louder than a doctor's words of warning ... I'm hoping we just get smarter about treating pain, perhaps, relying on long-acting drugs or mixed antagonist/agonist drugs like buprenorphin.
By the way, I called looking for an addiction doctor practicing in California and was told that buprenorphin is still illegal in this state. What's that all about? Will I have to go to the east coast to get my pain meds?

[Frankinscense]

Why does everyone continue to deny themselves. MMT or Methadone maint therapy is not only for heroin but for ALL opiate addicts including PILL addicts. You said yourself you feel that pill addiction is worse than heroin addiction. So doesn't make sense to try methadone or LAAM for pill addictions. I have used methadone for my pill addiction and chronic pain for years. It works miracles for your addictions and gets a major control on chronic pain. Is everyone just ignoring my post or what? Please read my posts I keep explaining MMT but no one seems to be listening. Please read my posts to help understand opiate agonist
therapy. It will stop your suffering and you will get a handle on your pill addiction. At least 50-60% of the people at my clinic are pill addicts not heroin addicts. Give it a try it will help!
Sincerely Again:
Doc..
ps: MMT is a VERY safe treatment. People with hepatitus (hepatitis) can use MMT without any ill effects  to there livers or major organs!

[John B.]

Comment By: John B. on Friday, November 17, 2000



All of you sound like you have this drug thing figured out. And I can relate to all of you. I have been taking pain meds on and off(more on than off) now for almost 20 years, and befor that a pot smoker. For the last 3 years I have been taking percodan. I have cut way back on them now partly because I was fearful my doctor would cut me off and partly because I know what they are doing to me. I do suffer from migrains but very few, much less than I tell my doctor about or my wife. About a year ago I stopped taking them as much. I was taking about 120 pills a month. Now I take 50 about every two months. When I get them I will go through them in about two weeks. Then stay strait till my next doctors visit(in about 7 weeks)I have found that the bigest catch with these drugs are that they give you a way to feel, a way to stimulate your mind, and all you have to do is put a pill in your mouth. It is human nature to want to stimulate you mind somehow, to feel a certain emotion. Without drugs this takes reall work.

Without drugs- To fell a sence of accomplishment. One might take up a hoby, or seek a rewarding career. With drugs you can just take a pill and sit back or do something small around the house. That is just one of many examples.
After you take them for a long time you loose the ability to become self-motivated. The only way you know to feel anything is to just take your pill of chioce. Thats why when you stop them you don't feel anything, you just want to lay around the house and not face up to anything. When quiting drugs it is a whole reshaping of how you conduct your life. You have to learn how to feel happy, concerned, interested, motivated feel love. Any emotion you can posibly think of has to be relearned, all over again or sometimes even learned for the first time. It is a hard battle but I can say this. When you achieve happyness on you own rather than with drugs it is a deeper feeling, a feeling of treu happyness not the fake happyness from some drug.

My precription will come in 3 weeks and I will take it again. I am just now doing things without the drugs and doing well, but I look forward to that next fix. I hope some day I will get sick of this rollercoaster ride and quit but I am just not ready yet.

Success to all of you

[Patrice]

Ken, as long as thee is a breath of life in you ,you are alive and there is hope.  Quit beating yourself up on your relapse.  ****, Ive been in NA for 16 years, got 12 years clens, then relapsed that time almost died from a heroin od.  Got 2 years, then 3 weeks ago I found out how bad my diease is.  I was taking 100 mg of norco a day and shooting a gram of heroin on top of that!!  This is not to bragg this is to let you know that this diease is a killer, it lies to us and says one more time wont hurt, I am now on the buprenphine/nalxon treatment it has been a life saver for me.  Please get some help, and take it one day at a time.  We dont have to die loaded anymore.  I heard in a meeting of NA tonight, that we are never alone.  Reach out.  Please E mail me anytime.  ***@****.  I care and can help!!

[Patrice]

I am on the buprenphine/Nalxon treatment now!!! It is leagal in California.  I go to Dr. Guzetta in Clovis Ca.  His number is [phone].  Ask for Tony and talk to him about it.  I dont know where in Ca you live, but if you E mail me I can tell you how to get in touch with some people .Tony will know everywhere in Ca it is being done.  PLEASE try,  It has saved my life.


SeeYa

Patrice