Tyro/b6--How to take

[maddogmmm]

I have read all of your posts about L-tyro and b6 etc. Thank you all for infomormation. My question is do you stop all the pain meds. before taking the L-tyro and b6, or do you overlap them. I am currently taking oxycontin 40mg 2x daily and lorcet 10/650 2 3x daily. Should I just go cold or what is the protocol? Sorry if my question is a little confusing. Thank you all in advance for any advice you can give me.----Your Friend----Michael

[skipper]

Michael:
for what ever my opinion is worth, i'ld get on the l-tyrosine
and B6, and stay on it. use of opiates strips the body of a lot
of what it needs to "manufacture" neuro-chemical transmiters. in
addition to the l-tyrosine/B6 i would add zink, magnesium, man-
ganese, copper and vitamen A.
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[maddogmmm]

Thanks skip---Do you meann stay on opiates too and wean off them after I have started l-tyro b6 and others? Sorry I can be pretty thick.

[hippy]

I have been reading this post for a week now. I was searching
for site like this for six months,well anyway thanks to everyone
and grace and strength to all.  
I am in the same boat as most,15 perc's a day . For the last year>. the two years before that i was taking 4 a day and switching to ultram for a week or two. My doctor stoped percs and the ultram a year ago. Then put me on ultracet only. My pain
in knee's was unmanagable, so i started getting percs at work
off one of the guys who worked for me.
It's a year later and i crossed a line into a real nasty ,out of controll addiction. Now it is not about getting high it is about
getting OK.tapering down has been useless. I am going to go cold turkey starting friday. I bought the vitamans and the imodimum
ect. I was also going to take MSM some sulfer vitaman i have had
good sucsess with for pain . ps i was clean 100% for 14 years
in na up untill 3 years ago. 2 rotator cuff operations

              so am i crazy. my wife is aware of everything.
              she has been clean for years

[confused.grl]

this is probably going to sound stupid but could somebody please tell me how to use the online chat that is attached to this forum. I have tried day and night for probably 2 months now what am i doing wrong.

[1fortheroad]

why would you think you are crazy?  you're just like any one of us, and i for one am not crazy (at the moment).  are you taking a bunch of percs still, or have you moved onto heroine?  i have heard that thomas' recipe has worked wonders for many people.  i tried it, and it didn't do it for me.  i have tried EVERYTHING.  now i'm doing the buprenex thing, but i dread the day i have to stop that.  some days i am more hopeful about success than others.  lots of people do it, so why shouldn't we be able to right?  willpower....must have more willpower.  i wish i could just be hypnotized into thinking i hate drugs...unfortunately i don't think there is any easy way.  i've heard many mixed reviews about "rapid detox" - plus it is ridiculously expensive.  i'll stick with what i'm doing, and see how it goes.  good luck to you - keep posting...it helps (me).

[maddogmmm]

So much for the original question I asked----WOW

[1fortheroad]

sorry, although i don't generally believe anyone here has to apologize for writing unless they are unkind to someone - i went off on a tangent...i tend to do that when i'm here.  

i think you can start taking them before or during.  after all, they are only vitamins and amino acids right?  i just have heard that you shouldn't take the l-tyrosine if you are taking an ssri antidepressant (like prozac). i asked the vitamin store owner about that and he said don't take tyro unless you are taking an mao inhibitor (like lithium) or something.  i am no doctor, so don't take this as fact...i'm just racking my tired brain here trying to come up with something useful for you.

[skipper]

maddog:
what i ment in my post above is get on the l-tyrosine/b6, zink,
manganese, magnesium, copper, and vitamen a as soon as possiable!
people who are taking opiates deplete the bodys supply of these
amino-acids, vitamins, & minnerals, which are key ingrediants in
manufactureing endorphans, dopimine, etc... so i've found that if
i take it every day, weather i'm using or detoxing it sure makes a huge difference, espically while detoxing!

as far as tapering...if you can do it. i've always found it incredably difficult to taper. the benefits of tapering are marginal for me. there is something to be said for stopping cold. i sometimes will take a very reduced dose of oxy-c (for me 20mg) the first night and no opiates there after. i can't say enough in favor of the nutritional supplements. i think, for me anyhow, that is what makes detoxing very "doable!"

hippy:
i was clean 17 years before an old injury to my neck came back to
literally tear my life to pieces. it's intresting to note what
pain changes in the addiction/recovery model.


hey both you guys, welcome to the forum! there will always be room *for just one more addict here!*

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[alchemist]

Can anyone please explain why detox is harder each time one goes through it, I've thought about it many times and find it to be true, but I can't come up with a logical reason why.

[skipper]

alchemist:
there is a concensus of opinion that detoxing gets progresively
worse each time you go through it. i'm not so sure about this. i
think it may seem worse as you become more familiar with what to
expect. in some ways it has become much easier for me. the first
real good w/d from an "oil burning sized habit" was much worse
than it is today. all sorts of variables like dose size, body
weight, attitude... they all seem to have affect on w/d. i do
believe a person can "learn" to minimise the horrors of w/d. my
attitude seems to dictate how bad a w/d will be. i've also dis-
covered the sooner i'm up exercising, the sooner i feel beter. i
don't mean lifting weights (although you could). things like brisk
short walks, maybe a bike ride. the only thing i have ever done
sitting around is lots of dope, so get up and get moving!!

all this stuff i just said is my opinion only. the important thing
about detoxing is to get going and see it through to the end!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[maddogmmm]

Thanks Groovy and skipper---Thanks and good luck to all!!!--may GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU. I do beleive no matter what vitamins or system each one of choose that without his GRACE we won't make it. Thanks again---Your Friend----Michael

[maddogmmm]

Thanks Groovy and skipper---Thanks and good luck to all!!!--may GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU. I do beleive no matter what vitamins or system each one of choose that without his GRACE we won't make it. Thanks again---Your Friend----Michael

[Nod]

SCHLUB - are you out there?  How are you?  Please let us know!

Confused girl - good for you. You should hold your head up after doing that.  I for one would sure have trouble not tucking them away for "just in case."  Your surely on your way!  Keep it up
NOD

[RaspSwirl]

Hi everyone: ) I posted a couple of days ago, concerned about Vicodin withdrawal and some issues associated with it.  Glad to say, that today is my fifth day without it.  Although I am proud of myself for being so strong to get through it.  It was tough the first three days, but yesterday morning I felt like myself again.  Well, a glimpse anyway: )  My biggest ailment was the restlessness of my legs and arms. I just could not sit still. It was so frustrating and painful that I cried through Monday afternoon.: (  That tapered off, thankfully, and I went through the flu symptoms and all that fun stuff.  I wasn't able to eat until tonight, which, when my tummy started growling, I ate and ate and ate: )  I'm nautious right now but at least I ate: )  Happy about that!  Also happy that I'm doing allright.  Taking a little at a time, looking forward to tomorrow because I know what tomorrow is, a little bit better than today.  Each day I've looked forward to the relief of tomorrow.  : )

However...*sigh, there has to be a but...*  I'm out of my mind hyper. I'm shaking, as if I took way too many caffeine pills.  I went out for the first time tonight, all my friends noticed.  My eyes are so wide open, I can't seem to calm down.  I feel like running a marathon, if only I thought my legs could take it! : )Does anyone know how long this will last?  I haven't slept since Monday at 8 PM, and it's now Thursday morning, almost 5 AM.  I'm not tired.  I'm feeling loopie.  Sleep aids are no help, I tried high blood pressure pills, no good.  Any advice would help: )

The mental cravings are still there, but I've just looked the other way, the way that shows how far I have come and how hard I fought to be here now.  It's helping.  But...the shaking...arg!

[OxyDout]

CONGRATS!! thats awesome, you are doing incredible, now don't look back........don't let the mental cravings get a hold of you, its not worth it, nothing it worth this torture. I have to tell you today was the first day I'm feeling normal.  I was detoxing with methadone....I didn' take anything after 2pm yesterday so when I woke up i was wide awake, the birds were chirping, the sun was shining, it was so weird, I FELT NORMAL THIS MORNING!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep up the wood work

GWH

[confused.grl]

well today is the day, i am going for my surgery today. I posted a couple of day ago about someeone gave me oxy's for money i loaned them well in case anybody cares i flushed them screw the money, even though that was my rent money, oh well i will survive and now al least i dont have the guilt or drugs in my system. the only thing tat sucks is all the work i put in to stay sober, and now i will be taking the same drugs after my surgery that caused the problem to begin with.

[OxyDout]

don't use this surgery as an excuse to start taking all the drugs you get your hands on YOUR STRONGER THEN THAT, AND YOU HAVE WORKED TO DAMN HARD, DON'T LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN!!! YOU CAN DO THIS, YOU HAVE TO REALLY WANT IT OR YOUR GOING TO END UP ON THE SAME BEATEN PATH, STAY STRONG, GOOD LUCK AND TRY TO POST WHEN YOU CAN, WE ALL ARE HERE FOR YOU.

GWH

[vikequeen]

does anyone know if ultram helps with withdrawl coming off of vicodin and percocet? Please hurry and reply thanks kids love baddgirl

[1fortheroad]

i've heard varying opinions on it.  i've heard ultram comes with it's own set of addictive qualities, so be aware of that.  sometimes when i have questions i don't want to ask my dr. about, i call some pharmacies...sometimes you will get a nice, informed person who will answer your questions...sorry, i don't know more about it.

[OxyDout]

I don't know, but I do know that there are plenty of people in this forum because they are addicted to ULTRAM!!! so I don't think that is the best way to go........... anyone else??

[dive]

Be Careful with Ultram.  My girfriend is in pharmacy school (how convenient, Huh?), and she's been studying opiates lateley.  She told me that Ultram is a synthetic drug with opiate like qualities.  Although most people can't get high on ultram, it is physically addictive.  People who try to get off it, say the physically withdrawls are worse than that of Vicodin.  Don't swap one addiction for another.

DO NOT USE ULTRAM TO GET OFF VICODIN.  I tried it, it just prolongs the pain you must feel, to drop this addiction.  Yes, it releives withdrawl symptoms if you take enough, but they hit you just as hard, when the ultram is gone...

[GOD]

In regards to whether Ultram helps with withdrawl from opiates... YES it certainly does. you will have NO withdrawl symptoms, and if you take 3-4 at a time, you will be feeling just GREAT (Just like Percocet, or OXYs) at first. Unfortunately, Ultram itself is as addicting (OR MORE Addicting for me) than all the opiates. and what makes it worse is that is a relatively expensive drug. (About $1.50 per pill) I know that doesn't sound like much, but when your tolerance gets to the point that you need 30-40 per day JUST TO FEEL NORMAL it gets bad. Ultram is a real sneaky drug because at first you get that great euphoric feeling that you get from the opiate drugs, AND it lasts much longer (A good 6 hours or more). but within a week or 2, you don't get the good feelings no matter HOW much you take... but you HAVE to take it, because if you don't the withdrawls are very bad. becuase it is also an antidepressant, when you stop, you will become EXTREMELY depressed... All I've got to say is BE CAREFUL. the reason I found this board was that I was an ULTRAM addict. Hell, I STILL need to take it every day or I would go crazy. luckily, I function on 6 per day now which is the recommended max dose. My doctor thinks I'm crazy when I tell him I'm addicted... He just keeps re-filling the script, and says "If it helps with your nerve pain, and you don't have to be on Opiates, it can't hurt..."

Oh, well. I really wish I could get off this ****.

[RaspSwirl]

I'm not sure if it's this way with most people, or alot of people, but if I went on Ultram to detox from Vicodin or Oxy or codeine, I'd be so happy.  For me it caused the same feelings. Although I don't know if I'd be able to stop taking it.  I was very able to substitute Ultram for Vicodin when I was taking it.  The only difference I felt was that Ultram made me more sleepy.  Hope this helped: )

[lanas]

yes, ultram keeps w/d from hydrocodone away (at least for me); but you will have w/d from it as well. However, I don't get a high from it either, so it is an easier way to taper off. I do think the w/d are a little easier if you stop ultram cold turkey; but you will still have them (again, remember everyone is different).  But there is no doubt that Ultram is very addictive as well.  So, while I have used it as a way to taper off vicoprofen, it may not be the answer for everyone.  Hope this helps.

[Ketta]

Guys, I took ultram for the last two weeks for menstral pain. I took it because I needed something more than tylenol and felt it was safe. I've been off the vic.s for 1 month! :) I used Ultram responsibly and never got high. I didn't need it anymore and didn't feel it was ever effective, except the first few days, so I threw it down the toilet. I feel like I am getting the flu, and think it very well could be the flu, but I never thought it would be w/d?? If it's w/d, that's fine, I'll just work through the irritant, I never had fun and don't miss the ultram. I really don't want the flu though. I have no mental attachment to the ultram, could I still be experiencing physical stuff for just the short time I took it?? I feel really achey (achy). thanks for your help. Ketta

[GOD]

Ketta....

One question to you about Ultram. A question that answers itself!
If it is true that the Ultram was only effective for "The first few days" then why did you keep taking it for 2 weeks before flushing it? Real answer: It does feel "Good", and it IS addictive.

[1fortheroad]

i know what you mean about being tired.  that (plus the depression) is always what gets me in the end.  most professionals say it's only a couple weeks that you will feel that way, but then everyone here (including me) feels the lethargy lasts MUCH longer.  i've been taking the amino acids religiously for 2 weeks now, and i really feel they help with the energy a bit - not a ton, but something is better than nothing.  plus, i'm still on the buprenex - that definitely helps.  but, it does get boring doesn't it...the lack of get-up-and-go?  i wonder WHEN that really comes back, or IF it ever fully comes back.

[lanas]

All of what you said is so true.  The stupid thing is, I was really high energy long before I started the vics, so my whole life has been structured around having tons to do all the time.  So now, here I am, with TONS that I HAVE to do and I can barely walk from my desk to the filing cabinet (it is 4 feet away).  This is the worst part! I had all the other symptoms, but this has been the worst part--I suppose b/c the other symptoms were so limited in duration and this just goes on and on and on and on...  but I keep thinking that I WAS high energy before and those who have quit for longer-term say you do get back to normal.  I just hope it happens soon b/c between my job, my 4 year old, and the other ridiculous commitments I have made, I'm going to never make it at the rate I'm going (and I simply mean I'm going to have to take sick leave from work or something--I'm really not keen on going back to the drugs--I don't want to face THIS again).  Anyway, I guess I am really understanding better what otehrs have said about the worst part being NOW, not the first 72 hours...

[1fortheroad]

i guess we just have to have faith it will come back to us...like you said, you've made it this far.  it would be a tragedy to turn back now knowing at some point, you'd have to go thru all this again...and next time it will be worse (that's what i've heard).  just keep posting here - this place has really helped me, and i keep learning more and more from the people here:)

[Ketta]

I didn't say it wasn't addictive, I just don't miss it mentally, but possibly physically? I took it because I had real discomfort. I had MAJOR abdominal sugery for ovarian cancer 8 weeks ago. I could call up my oncologist for some vic.s but wanted to avoid doing so with the Ultram I purchased online. I took it for pain, not for any "good" feeling, trust me. My question was addressed to potential phyiscal withdrawl after such a short time? Ketta

[mckr]

HI all
    been off the meth 7mnths but still no energy head in bits most of the time,cant say im depressed as i feel happier than when i was using,still got mild aches in head and legs but this is common i hear,was on it 16yrs any suggestions thought of prozac etc but everything ive researched has too many negatives.
il never use again but its starting to become a bore I WANT MY HEAD BACK.HELP
  MCKR

[GOD]

Sorry if I sounded "Preachy" about the Ultram use, it's just that Ultram had me by the you know what! Anyway, about your question about physical withdrawls-- yes, I'm pretty sure that Ultram has MAJOR physical withdrawl potential because even on the manufacturer's own website, its says it is only to be taken for less than 2 weeks. I think they know how addictive it really is!

Hope you have a great day! It is pretty nice out... At least here in the midwest....

[lanas]

From my own experience, yes, you could be experienceing w/d.  I, too, have gotten off vics and then within a month, taken ultram for a short period of time and then quit and had w/d symptoms.  They were not bad, but definitely had them.  I agree with jessesarpy that ultram is very addictive and I also think the company knows this.  I know several people in the medical field who all strongly believe unquestionably that it is very addictive--of course, even the compnay is now saying it does show potential for abuse "in some persons."  Anyway, as with all drugs, people will react differently, but this was and has been my experience going from vics to ultram.  I agree that ultram does not give me a high, but it keeps me from feeling energyless and it kept the w/d from vics away.  Now, I'm going it without anything and honestly, the lack of energy is about to kill me.  I'm doing well in every other respect but, as I recall reading in a post quite some time ago, this thought that just getting up and going to bathroom and back is mind-numbinglyt overwhelming--well, I'm going on a month of this and I can hardly stand it.  But I'm not going back to the drugs.  I've come this far and DON'T want to have to go through *this* again.  There has to be an end somewhere, right?

[confused.grl]

Well i just got home from the hospital this morning, wow was that an challange, after my surgery i woke up with a pca with morphine (this coming from the same doctor i went to and told him not to perscribe anymore narcotic), but i was in so much pain that i had to use it . then 3 dys later i asked him to d/c it. Later that dy (sat) they took it out and wanted to give me methadone, but i was so scared to take it after reading all the horror stories on this site so i refused. By sat. night i tried to use the bathroom i was in so much pain the nurses couldnt get me off the toilet, they called in the doc. and he said i have to take the methadone at least while i was in the hospital, so i did. But now im at home with 90 methadone on my dresser and im in bed in total pain.

[OxyDout]

God, please don't suffer in fear of addiction, you need to take care of yourself first.  However, if you use a minimal amount of the methadone then you should be ok.  Write back, let me know what you have, are they wafers?? if so what color, or are they pills? viles?? let me know so I can be here for you.  Trust me this will work out, but please don't put yourself through this torture. post back. I will be here.

GWH

[Witchywoman]

Lanas, your energy level will come back, I promise.  It took about a month after I stopped before I felt fully normal, so you must be just right around the corner.  Those days of feeling so lethargic that walking two feet is a major venture really really SUCK! But they do go away.  I predict within a week you'll be feeling better, especially if you keep up the supplements. Are you taking the minerals as well? They do help. Also..even though it is the last thing you feel like doing, excercise does help bring your energy back faster.  The lack of energy is due to low levels of dopamine and endorphins, and excercise helps boost both, as does the L-Tyrosine.  Just don't give up! You will feel normal again, it just takes its own sweet time.

Confusedgirl, I have to agree with gwh...please don't suffer un necessarily in severe pain.  Even the NA big book talks about how if we have a medical necessity for pain relief, we need to take care of our medical needs first.  See...recovery is not just about stopping the drugs.  Ultimately, it is about changing our relationship with the drugs, so that if we need them we can take them without getting sucked in to the compulsion.

A few months ago I had a killer migraine that had lasted 5 days, and I went to the ER.  I told them I was off narcotics and didn't want narcotic treatment, so they tried several other things that did nothing. Eventually I gave in and they gave me a small dose of morphine that did work.  I had been clean a few months at that point, and I did not count it against my clean time, because it was medically necessary, and it did not trigger a compulsion to return to narcotic abuse.
And you just had surgery! Go easy on yourself, heal up, and then get off the meds.  I don't know what kind of surgery you just had, but I'm told by my doc that if you are in severe pain, surgery takes longer to heal.

take care,
love,
WW

[1fortheroad]

how long have you been clean?  i admire your resolve.  do you feel like you did before all the drugs?  i'm sure you've talked about this stuff, but i missed those threads.

[lanas]

Thank you so very much for that post; I cannot tell you how much I needed to hear those specific words. Thanks.

[Witchywoman]

Groovy, yes, I am pretty sure that I do feel as good as if not better than I did before all the meds. It's hard to remember, 'cause I was on them for 4 or 5 years.  But I do feel good, I get lots of excercise, eat well most of the time (gotta have french fries once in a while, lol).  I have chronic back pain, but it beats all the complications of narcotic abuse. I'll take the back pain over slavery to a pill any day.

Lanas, how are you feeling? Any better yet?

love,
WW

[Jack Frost]

Groovy,

You say you are using the buprenex ( Temegesic ). Do you mind me asking how many a day and do you plan to wean yourself off of them. I recently detoxed with buprenex for a couple of days and with a combination of xanax had very little w/ds from a major hydro habit. I would like to do it for good and figured that I would use the Temegesic only for about a week, is this unrealistic? I would appreciate some feedback from someone who has been there. BTW - this drug really seems to be a wonder drug for Hydro addiction.

WW - as usual your advice is right on target. Post surgical pain should be treated accordingly and if involves narcotics so be it. The pain, depending on the surgery and the condition should pass and that is the time to get clean if one feels one is abusing. I would like to add that some conditions simply require large doses of narcotics and if you are in real pain (as oposed to just wanting the euphoric rush of narcotics), you should, well, take your medicine.

Finally, all that I have seen first hand and read indicates Ultram is addictive. My experience is that it was a midly effective pain reliever but did not provide the opiate kick that hydros do. I think it was pitched by the pharmactical companies as a break thru non addictive pain reliever, but it did not pan out that way.

Peace,

jf

[Witchywoman]

oops sorry groovy, I forgot to answer your question. I've been clean for about 7 months now, so I can honestly say it does get better.  Life without drugs is different, not necessarily easier, but far more rewarding than living in a fog and dealing with all the residual problems of abusing meds.

love,
WW

[lanas]

Good morning--thank you for asking.  Yes, I AM feeling better I am so incerdibly unbelievably happy to say.  It's not a tremendous amount but it is a good sign.  I was out of town yesterday and it was a hectic day.  I had to rush from one thing to another, participate mentally and intellectually in many different events, and I was terrified that I would never make it through.  But I did and, though exhausted by the time I got home late last night, I felt so good that I got through that day WITHOUT the hydro or ultram.  A first in a very long time for me.  Interesting thing that really hit home; I stopped at one of the jails on my way to one of the meetings to see a client.  He was 22 (looked 17) and has been convicted (waiting to go to prison) for burglarizing a pharmacy.  Why?  Because he broke his shoulder a few years ago and was given pain medication.  You know the rest of the story... got addicted, desperate for more, etc.  He's 22 and has a felony conviction under his belt and will spend at least a year in PRISON (not just the time already spent in jail) before he can try to live a normal life.  And just like many of us, he comes from a really good home and loving and caring parents.  He just had a really crappy trial attorney.  (And it wasn't me--I'm doing his direct appeal).  Anyway... thought this story might mean something to many on here (not the prison part)--just knew many would understand.  Keep this kid in your prayers, or whatever.  He needs it.
THanks again WW--I DO feel better.  GROOVY--there is hope!!!!!  Yesterday was a damn good day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Still not as much energy as I'd like but it was better!!!!!!!!!

[1fortheroad]

i have stood in line at the pharmacy, and the thought of jumping over the counter and grabbing anything i could has actually crossed my mind...that is how desperate this stuff can make a person. i feel badly for the guy you spoke about...i can't think of anything more miserable than being in withdrawal while in jail...it makes me sick just to think of it.

i'm glad you are feeling better - you definitely sound positive!!

[confused.grl]

First off  thanks for your concern gwh the pills are not the wafer they are small white pills i didnt even get out of bed yesterday but after staring at the only thin that could help, even if it just a little. Today i got up and read the messages that were left for me i decided that i would take them they are perscribed 1-2 every 6 hours i will try using only 1 every 6-8 hours and see how i feel and i feel that i can be strong enough to stop when the surgery pain does. My real fear is that i still have a chronic pain issue, i need to find something that works for that too i have children i cant spend my life in bed.

[skipper]

hey people:

ah yes kicking on the floor of a jail...being the main attraction
and amusement for other prisioners and sadistic guards. you know
the only place where i have ever met crumbyer people is in a
methadone clinic, and they were on the staff!!

i went for a period of 20 years supporting a opiate habit by
doing B&E on pharmacys and clinics. just the memory alone is e-
nough to drive you crazy.... hypo tabs of morphine, dilaudid,
neumorphan.....all waiting for me to "liberate" them. ah yes,
just when i thought i'ld never get caught, i did. wound up 3 days
in jail kicking on the floor (you can't fall off the floor)! i
used to wonder what it was i did to deserve this (w/d)!

several years ago i had some out-patient performed on me. i woke
to see this tiny syringe (spelling) hanging from my IV line and
taped to my chest...a nurse asked me if i was in pain...when i
said yes she advanced the plunger on this doll sized hype a lit-
tle bit. after going through this several times, i snatched the
thing away from her ande sent the plunger home...i awoke about
a half hour later...i told my wife, irish rose about my "odd
dream." my wife answered in a real icy voice, "that wasn't a
dream.

several weeks ago a pharmasist looked up to help the next cust-
omer, to find a real big hand gun stuck in his face. "give me
all  your oxy & ms contin.... wow a smith and wesson Rx. i nev-
er had the courage to do this. i always felt if you put a gun to
someone, you beter be ready to shoot. i've just never been that
far gone (yet)! there are several pharmacists who i know whom
probably deserve this expierence. i read an intresting essay on
the net somewhere by Jim Hogshire, why i hate pharmacists...good
reading!!

last month i turned 51. at the age of 43 i realized that i had
somehow lived past the age of 40. wow- another thing i ****** up!
see i never planned to live past 40, so i didn't worry about the
stuff "normal" people did. no 401K plans, mortgage, children,
grandchildren, etc.... but for some reasion, i've yet to under-
stand i was "spared." i often think about all the friends who
didn't survive addiction...why me? many of these people were much
nicer than i ever will be...so why me?

i'm sorry to ramble...i've still got a lot of **** in my head!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[jennyfla]

Well keep talking Kip, it's good to get it out!
There's no better way to straighten out the '**** in your head' then to talk it through with friends!   :)
Plus, you're one interesting guy!!!
:)
Hang in there, everything really is going to be OK!!  :)
Lv Jenny