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ULTRAM/ULTRACET/TRAMADOL: The Truth about this 'non narcotic' please
by percsnomas, Apr 25, 2003 12:00AM
Hey Goldie, this new thread is for you!!!
There is a great deal of confusion with respect to this drug.
Why is it, that if this a non narcotic and non addicting med., i continue to read(or hear) about, horror story after horror story getting off of it???????
Seems many would say the withdrawal from tramadol is far worse than many opiates.
A wise friend of mine even mentioned a front page article in their local newspaper(recently), siting what a great "alternative" Ultam is, in that it is "non-addicting".
Any help would be appreciated.
percs
There is a great deal of confusion with respect to this drug.
Why is it, that if this a non narcotic and non addicting med., i continue to read(or hear) about, horror story after horror story getting off of it???????
Seems many would say the withdrawal from tramadol is far worse than many opiates.
A wise friend of mine even mentioned a front page article in their local newspaper(recently), siting what a great "alternative" Ultam is, in that it is "non-addicting".
Any help would be appreciated.
percs
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This forum is very easy to find via a search. Although I am not sure how easy it is to find the forum they are at currently.
Of course it can also help the plethora of people that are considering using either one of these drugs to help taper down off of the "true" opiates they are currently on.
I hope all is well in Canuck country. Congrats againnnnnnnnnnn on your continued abstinence, but most of all for your NON-STOP support for eeveryone giong through what you have already conguered.
You da' man...
Chezz
I felt exactly like you, and worried about being as confident, as funny, as energetic....after the pills. BUT you know what, as my good buddy MethMan so astutely pointed out, that person is still in there; and i'm certain you will rediscover her quickly.
I am very optimistic about your recovery.
Vent on whenever you need to.
percs
.....oh by the way, the crying and radical mood swings are just more wonderful withdrawal effects. I still remember walking down the hall at work, by our CEO's office, and hit by an uncontrollable need to cry(and i don't cry very much)........of course i ducked into my gas marketing gals office(the coworker that helped me taper; and was immediately "talked down")
he had boxes of samples of ultram in the office and i was too picky to even mess with those, didn't think it did much...
about a year later i was on ultram for about two weeks, just a regularly prescribed dose... when i quit i had three days and nights of opiate withdrawls... you know them when you have them and that was what it was... RLS, everything... that was the last time i took ultram... i think i pretty much figured that if i was going to go through that kind of withdrawl in the end i was going to find a more pleasurable opiate to make it worth the trouble! typical junkie thinking!!
i remember something about the opioid site that it worked on, something about MU 1 and MU 2 or some kind of stuff that i no longer remember, lol!!! that is why i am sitting here, working as an "administrative assistant" for a wildlife management company and have all this time to be online! lol!!!
but this is good for me b/c there are no drugs for me to "divert" and you know the saying "i am right where i am supposed to be" amen to that!!!
amber
Chezz, i must point out, that you've been here almost the entire time with me.....so back at ya(thanks). I trust things are still progressing on all fronts for you. Take Care Friend.
Goldie, i told you i wouldn't know what to say, in the event i "got through"...........but seems it doesn't matter, as people are filling in just fine.
I am sorry for changing the subject.....
I'm not sure how long or how much hydro you were on; but as you've tapered off gradually(extrapolating from two day regime you reported??), it probably doesn't matter.
I'd say that the first 2-3 days, AFTER zero,are the roughest, and that things should stabilize and improve steadily after that.
You are getting VERY close to coming out the other side, SO JUST HANG IN THERE!!!! You are soooooo close.
Great job on the taper by the way.
depending on how gradual i can come down the less severe the w/d's are...
but it sounds like you have tapered about as much as you can taper! so there might be some discomfort but it won't last forever!!!!
look into that thomas recipe that keeps getting posted! other than that hold onto your ass and just know it will be over soon!!
amber
as far as the two bac and cokes go... i "rewarded" myself with being drug free for 8 years by allowing myself the freedom to drink alcohol! some trade off! lol!! and being the good addict that i am i whole-heartedly embraced alcohol and all the despair that comes with alcoholism...
i lost more due to this period of time in my life, family-wise than i ever lost due to the drugs... i am four months and two days past my last drink and holding on to how awful it was and how UNSUCCESSFUL that i was!!!
i am aware that there are some addicts who can drink successfully (whatever that is) i am just not one of them... and i hope i never kid myself again that i am one of them...
again, congrats to you!!!! hang in there!!
amber
Thomas
I'm the resident Crohnie (and resident rat) here. LOL. I've had Crohn's Disease my whole life, so have a lot of experience with the digestive system and different meds they give for it.
You said to email you, but you forgot to include your email address. Mine is ***@**** and if I'm awake, I'm more than likely online somewhere, so please email me anytime and we can talk about our guts.
funny thing about clean time, once you have it you may start to think you have it beat (like i did and start drinking or drugging) i have heard how it is so much easier to stay clean than to get clean and it is SOOOO true... and after you have had some time clean and relpase it can really do a number on you... "can't save your ass and your face at the same time" well, why should we have to (the NA way) i felt so defeated by repeated relapse in NA that i think i pretty much decided it was easier to stay out and accept my "fate" i am serious here...
what i have learned on this forum the past four days or so has spoken volumes to me! i am not afraid of relapsing right now, i mean, i don't want to but if i do i know it is not the end of the world and i will just try to pick up where i left off... rathter than stay out until i am so sick i need a medical detox!
what is your story thomas? you seem pretty interesting and i think your recipe is the ****!! :-)
amber
My problem is not internally in my stomach but it's kind of like on my skin. When I was injured,for some reason nothing could touch the skin on my stomach not even a sheet or else it would hurt me with inmense pain and supposedly it's a nerve that extends from the lumbar part of my spine that got injured to the front part of my stomach. In fact when I was first injured I was missing a stomach muscle and it looked pretty weird. The doctor says that it's some kind of nerve that is being pinched but who knows I got an MRI and they did'nt tell me anything,how can you tell. Well, anyway my side still hurts from time to time and my stomach which is very irritating it feels like it hurts but it itches at the same time. Please if anyone has any advice or has been or is going through something similar from a recurring back injury please write..
Thanks \\
Grappler
I am getting my liver checked. I am taking milk thistle to help detox the liver but I don't know if it is helping. I try to taper but I don't know how. My tolerance level is so high that I don't feel anything except when I stop taking them.
Anybody with suggestions?????
ldjohn
I have some pretty bad nerve damage to my spine causing me some bad pain and bizarre sensations in my legs and feet. One thing that might help your stomach area is a Lidocaine patch you can get them from a pain doc and put them right on the area that is affected. The second and also available from a pain doctor is a drug called Tizanidine it’s new non-narcotic non-addictive you can stop it whenever you want. I know everyone here is leery of meds of any kind myself included but I researched it and now take it. It will not kill pain like opiates and it takes a week or two before you will feel any effect but after a few weeks it did start to help, it reduces something in the nervous system called P substance. Is not perfect but it helped get me back up and working out again pretty intensely. You can also ask about the Neurological meds but stay away from Nurotin not sure how to spell it but it sounds like I spelled it, not a very good med you might want to discuss one of the other anti epileptic drugs with a pain doc.
It's the energy problem as well. The only solution is to use it in the morning, then less in the afternoon and even less at night. Cut down on the last dose of the day. Cut it once a week, but very little and always on the last dose until you are dosing only twice a day. The rule of thumb is 15 percent of the daily dose every 7 to 10 days. Bottom line .... you need to tell someone. Your husband will find out anyway. You are out of control ... 30 a day? OMG!! You will have a seizure .... God forbid. Tell your husband and take him to the doctor with you. You can't do this alone. You shouldn't have to. You need to slow down. Please promise me you will at least locate a doctor and make the appointment. Then talk to your husband. You need each other and the kids need a healthy Mom. Just do it!! Your friend ... Goldie
Thanks for the advice I want to ask you what type of doctor you were going to was it a regular or a was it a specialty doctor.
Cause man these guys are idiots,(the one I go to) he does'nt think that much because I don't cry about it like a *****. So he probably thinks that I don't hurt like everyone else and also he sees me in good form so he automatically thinks that I should be coping pretty good I told him what the deal was with the pain radiating from my back to my stomach an he gave some **** called "difunisal" it does'nt work at all. Could you give me some advice on how to approach him that I want something like you suggested. And thanks for the advice,keep it coming.
Grappler
I agree you should not have to whine like a girl; just tell them what’s going on and ask them or tell them you heard that these meds might help you, Tizanidine.
And here go to this link and read this. Let me know if you need anything else.
Good luck man.
http://www.painjournal.net/new_page_3.htm
They last for 24 hour's
You have helped me and I appreciate your advice, again. I'll let you know what I decide.
Thanks.
ldjohn
ULTRAM IS SAME FAMILY OF DRUGS AS STADOL..WHAT I WAS ADDICTED TO FOR 10 YEARS! It is a synthetic narcotic. Stadol was not categorised as addictive for many years!...And stadolis 10 x'sstronger than morphine. Drugco's dont want this categorization for their new and highly advertised money makers!
Thanks...
Love ,
Suzie
for me was it was more of a panic thing.
when i was sick from vikes and the like it just hurt.
which would lead me to think that ultram mess with your head,
and opaites mess with your body and head.
gamzz
Dear Hippy .... ultram has 2 antidepressants at work. Serotonin and norepiniphrine (hope I'm spelling it right) but you bet your life it is a pychological battle to quit. That's why I'm going ever so slowly .... I wish I had a few more email addresses here ... I appreciate you .... Goldie
I have been a loyal member of this forum for 7 months. I do have knowledge from tons of research in the literature and personal experience here to share.
I have a masters of Medical Science from
Emory University Medical School, Dept of Rehabilitative Medicine. So plz explain.
But wut i say is not medical advice of course...
Thank you,
Suzie
Sorry again!
Suzie
Also, I think it's wonderful that you're going to be quitting the pills - it will give your life back to you and I agree with Golden in that your son wants to see that. Take care of yourself, and please keep us posted on how you're doing.
I will comment on the tapering. I think you said you dropped your dosage quickly to 6 daily (?) Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I didn't read how much you're taking daily. If you want to taper, you can cut your dosage over a longer period of time, i.e. if you're taking 12 daily, you can cut it down by 1-2 pills weekly, or whatever works for you. I know that what works for one may not necessarily work for another, but I found that switching over to a weaker opoid like codeine and tapering down from that almost completely elminated the withdrawals, except for a general malaise, feeling of tiredness.
If you can talk openly with your doctor (or even see an addictionologist) about this, he may be able to give you a number of medicines (such as Clonodine, etc.) to help with the withdrawals. I have also heard from many that cold turkey is the only thing that works for them, so this is something else to keep in mind.
Another thing, once you do come off of the pills, I would suggest posting here OFTEN and finding a support group such as NA (or some type of real life support system) to keep you off of the pills. I was 4 months clean last summer only to relapse because I didn't seek out the support I needed (I didn't post here as I should to get the help and I also didn't have any friends, still don't, to confide in or a support group) to keep clean.
You have so much on your plate, my thoughts are with you. Know that this is NOT insurmountable, but I think finding a support group to help you deal with your son's death is just as important as finding a support group to help you with the addiction. Please keep posting.
I have delt with with tramadol first-hand, and it's not easy getting off it. It may have been the hardest thing I have ever done mentally, but I want everyone to know that you can do it too. It may seem impossible at first, but what i recommend is that you get in touch with yourself spiritually, but not with the help of the drug. Go off and and find a very natural place that has flowing water e.g. a river, creek, or waterfall. Be sure to bring plenty of natural spring water. Find a place to sit and contemplate/meditate. Then think about what ultram is, an artificial pleasure. Now imagine your body is being flushed clean with the spring water as you drink it. Do this until you finish your water bottle. And when you get up, I can assure you that will feel better about yourself. Just remember that your strong and on the road to recovery.
He is right but it also makes me feel better about myself until I look in the mirror and say I hate myself. How do you get self-esteem in order to feel good without ultram. I told the doctor I am abusing the ultram (but not 30 a day) so he said try darvocet for my headaches. It helps but it makes me tired and actually more incoherent than the ultram. The ultram keeps me going without being 'out of it'. I know I am addicted. I am so sick of the trap I am in. I am giving myself a date to try to quit cold turkey. Sorry Goldie but the tapering isn't working for me. I quit before I can do it again. I just need the stamina to continue to do everything without the need for ultram. My doctor gave me Zoloft. I know, I know, I am lighting a fire here and am scared but I am hoping the Zoloft will ease the depression I will feel when I quit ultram. Ok, now it's time to hear all your responses good and bad.
ldjohn
I think it's great that you are going to use zoloft. I am thinking of going for some help for mild depression. It's that tired thing ... don't feel bad, tapering isn't working for me either. I am stubborn and I won't go back up .... but I wish I knew what to do ... Goldie (***@****)
I have been addicted to pain meds for roughly 3 years. I started with codeine, such as Tylenol 3's. This was a result of a c5/c6 cervical disc injury. I really did not think that I had a problem at first; I took 2 at a time about 1 x a week to help with the pain. Well, that is how it started; I eventually took them because of the overall euphoric feeling it gave me. I had colon/rect. surgery not long after that, and was introduced to vicodin es. That, coupled with the Internet and easy access to pain meds, was the proverbial death knell to my casual "innocent" drug use. I was an addict on the codeine, so don't get me wrong, it’s just that it was now about 10 levels above where I started. I could no longer take codeine and get a buzz, and believe me I tried. I had to have vicodin. That stuff changed my brain. To make a long story short, I found it very easy to take the drugs. I could really cope with things, or so I thought. I was finishing grad. school, and we adopted to beautiful children, whose mother was murdered - but that is a story in and of itself! STRESS, that was my life. I was using 8-12 vicodin es a day. I tried tapering with my internalist using methadone for 3 months, did not work!! About 1 year ago this April, I decided I had enough. With my wife encouraging me, I elected to go in-patient at a clinic here where I live. The clinic I went to used chlonadine and the 12-step program. I completed the program successfully which took about 3 months, and things were going fairly well. The only problem was the mild depression. I don't even know if you could call it depression, but nothing really excited me. Well, I finished grad school, but starting this summer, I could not stand the blah feeling from the chemical imbalance created by the 3 years of opiate use. I got Tylenol 4 from my doctor for treatment of my ruptured disc, or so I said to him. I would typically go through 90 tablets a month. This lasted from August until October. I started taking them as prescribed, but you know how that goes. When I couldn't get any more, I told him the T4's weren't doing the trick- I actually ran out(October), so he prescribed me Kadian-morphine sulfate. I really did not want it, but I took it anyway. I took about 2-4 a day. I had enough until December 24th. I ran out Christmas Eve, the withdrawal was awful, the worst thing was the depression....ugh, I couldn't even do it justice by describing it. Well, on December 26th, out of utter desperation, I tried to get any pain meds that I could get my hands on, but the only thing my doc would consider was ultram. I took it right that day, and thought I had found a miracle drug. It really helped with the depression. I could not believe it. But looks are deceiving. I have been on it since but I never took more than 8 a day, even at my worst. That is very bad even at that level....trust me!! Ultram is as addictive as any opiate, and I have had them all except the street drugs.
Now adding to the story of my "soap opera" life, this January, I found out I had Brugada syndrome, which meant I needed surgery. Brugada is a heart signal disorder that can cause sudden unexpected cardiac arrest-my father died in his sleep this way when he was 48. My heart itself is in perfect condition, but my EKG reads funky because of this signal problem. This meant that I needed an ICD-defibrillator. I had the surgery in April, and was given various pain meds, Tylenol 3, some kadian, a left over prescription which I had from before, and ultram. Believe it or not, I took less than the doctor told me I could. I took them as prescribed. I was totally off of them for a couple days, but 2 weeks ago I was taken to the emergency room for a broken rib. We are not sure what caused the break, but it is most likely from the surgery. I went to v-fib on the operating table and was shocked with 320 volts, so that probably was the culprit.
I am now tapering trying to avoid the terrible depression I get when quitting opiates CT. I also started working out 20 minutes at a time 5 xs a week. That started last week. Outside of my addiction I am physically in better condition than I should be, but that will not last if I do not quit. My heart cath. showed a very clean heart, I have excellent blood pressure and cholesterol. I am 5'11" and weigh 175, so by the grace of God, or luck of the Irish, LOL...my body has faired better than it should have. All kidding aside, I have been fortunate enough to still be alive after 3 years on opiates. Today I went 14 hours without anything, but I started to feel some withdrawal, so I took 2 ultrams. I am at 2 ultrams 2 times a day. I have only taken 2 Kadians in 1 week. I have been here for 7 days. If I don't take the ultram, I am sure I will get depressed. I will try to stay at this schedule for a few more days, and then taper down more. If anyone has ideas about tapering, please let me know. I am trying to stay away from the true opiates because from my experience, when I try to quit them, it seems a bit more difficult.
Is there any addict who can give me some hope or advice about the chemical imbalance created in my brain by the opiates? Will my brain ever produce dopamine in sufficient levels to make me feel happy? I was never depressed before I experienced opiate withdrawal. I tried paxil this summer per advice of my doctor when I was off all pain meds, but it did not really help that much. Does anybody know from his or her own experience, when I might feel somewhat normal again? Not to mention my sex drive, that is bad now, mostly from the ultram. If you have an idea when that might ever be normal again, let me know. Sorry to ask so many questions, but I really need help from any person who is able. I understand that everyone is different with respect to recovery, but your experience will help me a great deal. Thanks so much to all!!
This thread has been very encouraging and helpful to read. All the best!!
Myself and several of his friends want to help him but we don't know where to go or what to do first. He is in denial about this drug.
Loveland
oh yeah...ULTRAM IS ADDICTING AND RELATED TO CODEINE...tell him I said so... he needs treatment or a addiction specialist ASAP
The first prescription worked great for the pain and for everything else. I got a refill, and dah. Nothing like what was in the first bottle. I'm thinking: this has to be the biggest case of a body adjusting to medicine I've ever seen. I felt no relief from the pain, and none of the pleasant side-effects. I more than doubled my dose, and achieved a seizure for my trouble. Threw the rest away, back to seeing my neurologist.
Depression is certainly a part of this withdrawal. I am now taking Lamictal, which helps. I have fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome, and perhaps I have these dreaded diseases as a result of taking Tramedol over the years. As I've gotten off Tramedol, I've had constant pain in my back and neck--almost a burning sensation.
This type of addiction is isolating. It is a lonely experience. No one was there to share my "victory" or milestone when I took my last one. Who can you complain to? Life still goes on and we still have to put our masks on everyday and pretend we are alright. Even our spouses and children can't understand and so mood swings put a strain on our families. I am horrified at some of the screaming fits I've given to my children. After my "fits" I go into my room and cry because it wasn't really me doing it.
One of the other horrible effects that I've experienced is that my brain isn't the same as before. My abilities to organize, and remember things have sharply diminished. Sometimes my kids ask me a question--simple things like state capitals--and I know I know the answer, but I can't seem to be able to retrieve it from my brain.
I HATE IT. I HATE IT, AND I HATE THE DOCTOR WHO PERSCRIBED IT TO ME!!!!! LIES! ALL LIES ABOUT HOW IT'S NOT ADDICTING!!
The only soothing thing is my faith in God, a 12-step recovery group, a loving doctor, and people like you who I can actually purge my feelings to. Plus, no matter how it hurts, I've started walking on a treadmill, imagining that the blood flowing is flushing the poison from my body. Lots of vitamins too.
Thank you one and all for your experiences, and your victories. This will truly help in my quest for recovery.
Mrs. JLo
Does anyone have anything GOOD to say about this med? I have NOT started taking it yet..I just picked it up tonight...I am worried..Any feedback would be appreciated..
In any case, I've used hydro from internet sources after the doc didn't want to have me use them on a daily basis. So, the feds have cracked down on this source as well.
Now a doc has set me up to try Ultracet because it isn't a controlled substance. Now I have my first bottle 90 pills 37.5 mg. In order to know what I am taking, I have checked this med out on the net. That drew me to this site.
Here is what I have learned. Tramadol is a synthetic codine. It is most certainly an opiate and recent study shows that the ONLY active pain killing function is the bonding with opiate receptors. It was marketed as a non addictive, but has now been shown to be addictive in some people, just like any opiate.
I used it last night for the first time. 2 pills. The effect is just like codine on me. After taking hydro, the ultracet does not do much, just like codine is not very strong compared to hydro.
Why so much addiction to tramadol, is it the mild high? I admit to liking the hydro effect I would get with over 10mg. Will tramadol also give a mild high once I get used to being off hydro?
As near as I can tell, tramadol is a plain and simple opiate, just a synthetic form of codine. How did it ever escape being a controlled substance? Am I being foolish to use ultracet for pain relief? I survived using hydro with only minor withdrawls when going off of it.
The reason I only took pain meds in the evenings is due to my fear of addiction. I though that since the pain always gets worse late in the day I'de limit any pain meds to ONLY that time when the pain is worst. This way I avoided any hardcore addiction to hydro. I will be extra careful now with this ultracet medication. Only when I absolutely need some pain relief will I use it. I'll post back in a month or so to let the board readers know my experience with this med. This site has been quite helpful in thinking about pain med use.
I have never taken a nonperscription drug in my life and did not even know I was experiencing withdrawal for the longest time. Doctors had me on anxiety and antidepressents only making things worse. Everytime I said they weren't working they said it would take five to six weeks. After taking for five to six weeks they increased dosage even making things worse. Then you have to taper off that medication and try another anti depressant or anxiety drug and go through the same process again. I've lost the last two years of my life. My doctor will not help me because he claims that Tramadol is nonnarcotic and nonaddictive and referred me to a psychiatrist for more help which told me the same thing and insists that I'm only getting a placeabo ..not sure how to spell this if I think they affect my mood etc. and only get verbal abuse when I refuse to take. Within four to six hours of taking the Tramadol I feel it come on every day and the only thing that brings me out of it is another Tramadol! I'm down to four a day from 8 but cannot seem to taper off any more without people knowing it and don't want to lose my job, family etc.
Any help from anyone is greatly appreciated. I started on them originally for fibromyalgia and stress. I don't take them for pain anymore but cannot get off because of the anxiety and depression.
I have a week and a half before starting another job, which is high profile and I need badly but fear being able to keep because of this. I was very social before but fear having to be social now because of the withdrawal and can't taper off and be normal!
God Bless,
Tim
I have never had any kind of withdrawal. My pain became much harder to deal with though.
Maybe it's because I don't abuse the medication.
I was dx'd with fibromaylgia (fibromyalgia) and sponilitis about 8 years ago. And then in 2002 I broke my back.
I was on a narcotic for 4 months while in the hospital and then at home.I was weened off the heavy stuff.It was beginning to make me vomit
and then went back on the ultram.
I wonder if some people are allergic to ultram?
I feel so badly for those that have had such terrible results after taking this drug.
peace
kdkmalone
If you want off of them, which I have had no success with, do it slowly. I hope this helps but Im still on them so dont feel bad....lol
Non-opiate Synthetic Analgesic
DESCRIPTION
Tramadol is a quasi-narcotic analgesic used in the treatment of moderate to severe pain. It is a synthetic analog of codeine, but has a low binding affinity to the mu-opioid receptors. It has been prescribed off-label for the treatment of diabetic neuropathy and restless leg syndrome.
My two cents:
Tramadol IS addicting. I am telling you from first hand experience. I'd prefer over codeine itself or hydrocodone. I am using Tramadol to wean myself off of oxycontin and heroin. It's working!