whats ultracet? i know its a pain reliever with tylenol, but does it give you the energy and motivation of vike or percs? I ask because I had to change doctors, and while he wasnt too happy to write for the vicodins i have been on for years, he had no problem with ultracet and he gave me a script.....so im basically asking, do people get addicted to this drug? should i not even start it?
The short answer is yes, it's addictive, no you won't get the same "buzz" you did from vicodin. It also happens to make me personally nauseous (I'm a norco addict).
From a scientific standpoint, the reason it's less buzzy is that it's far more selective about the neuroreceptors it hits. Its active ingredient is a stripped-down synthetic piperidine-analog of codeine. This means its agonistic effect is almost exclusively mediated by the substance's action at the μ-opioid receptor. This means it hits ONLY the opioid receptors, and not "them and everything else nearby".
Since opioids generally act upon one or more of the human opiate receptors (the euphoria, addictive nature and respiratory depression are mainly caused by the Mu(μ) 1 and 2 receptors), you won't feel has happy or buzzy on it. The nearby euphoria switches aren't (at least in theory) triggered.
It IS however an opiate. It DOES hit the μ-opioid receptor. This means you CAN build a physical dependence on it, it's just much harder to work up a psychological one.
I took Ultram years ago for chronic pain. I didn't care for it. I was on it for quite a while. I think I took 2 or 3 a day and I don't remember the dosage. But it did make me feel "high" or something. It wasn't a good feeling at all. When I stopped taking it, I didn't have any wds but from what I've read, a lot of people do.
The doctors (some,not all) have been fed a load of crap about tramadol being a great,non addictive pain reliever. They get this info from the drug reps who are only parroting the manufacturers lies. I believe this!! Many people get addicted to tramadol,love the feeling,and have horrible withdrawals. It,also,contains an antidepressant which means it's not a drug you can just stop!
Glad you checked in here...
I can't speak for tramahater, but from a chemistry standpoint they should be substantially LESS addictive than most other opiates. She may have had a bad time with them, or has some information I'm not privy to, but again, since they only target the μ-opioid receptor and not the Mu(μ) 1 and 2 receptors (where euphoria, respiratory depression and ADDICTIVE NATURE stem from), at least in theory they should be less addictive.
Indeed, if you read the drug's history when it was introduced back in the 70's, it was marketed as a less addictive opiate. Note that "less addictive" doesn't at ALL mean "NOT addictive". It just means that it's addicting fewer portions of your brain than say Vicodin.
Note that Tramadol has the antidepressant, from what I understand Ultracet does not. They're both just the same core drug.
Personally, I can't feel ANY effect from them in comparison to Vicodin or Norco, outside of nausea.
Think of it like this:
Vicodin hits portions 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 of your brain. All 5 do different things (make you feel good, slow down your breathing, etc.). All 5 get "used to" getting the opiates, so they alter subtly to "expect" those opiates.
Ultracet allegedly hits only portion 1, so 2-5 don't get triggered, nor do they expect their cut. Portion 1 may still get hideously dependent, but the argument is 20% is better than 100%.
This is not to say you would have 20% of the WD symptoms, or only 20% of the difficulty quitting, just that less of your brain overall is affected by the meds.
As was mentioned, THIS DRUG IS HIGHLY ADDICTIVE AND CAN HAVE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES.
For whatever reason, doctor's prescribe them as if they are harmless.
Please happy, listen to the members who have actual EXPERIENCE with them and be very, very careful. I hate to see you switch your DOC and find yourself in a dangerous place.
Just curious, are you looking for energy through the pills or do you think you could possibly deal with the pain using Motrin? I am not certain what your pain is from or what level it is but that is something to consider.
Yes,Jordan,but when one is an addict,one takes more than recommened thus getting more drug. The chemistry is correct unless you put it up against an addict,then all theory is out the window. There are many people on this forum who have been horribly addicted to this drug
Now,I don't know if "happypill" is an addict or requires pain relief. But,judging by her screen name it's a safe bet that she'd be better off without Ultracet...
YES it is HIGLY ADDICTIVE its a synthetic opiate we have hundreds of people addicted to it .For many it cause euphoria .It works as a double whammy of a antidepressant ands a pain meds .Coming off of it is heLL.
Admittedly, my experience with Ultram was only for about a week, and was literally because I couldn't find my usual DOC. Moreover, I was in no way attempting to recover at that time. So, while I was certainly taking over recommended dosage (around 40 a day or so; they seem weaker than Vicodin), I can't honestly evaluate them against a recovery standpoint.
Further, your analysis of hp's desire for the meds could indeed spot-on. If so, then you may well be right about the propriety of taking them.
All, please bear in mind, I'm answering the question posed, namely: Why are doctors willing to prescribe them more easily than other opioids. It's important to note that doctors generally are NOT addicts, and don't think along those roads. From a strictly theoretical standpoint, a less-addictive substance must seem a much better choice, especially in light of the prevalence of opiate addiction in the US right now.
BTW it just as addictive if you take 4 a day or if you take 20 a day .As with any addictive drug you start out on a lower dose and as you become more tolerant the more you take .Getting off hydro is far easier then tramadol so I would not fill it .
There is also the risk of seizures if you abuse this med .As well it effects the serotonin receptors in your body. We have had members end up with serotonin syndrome when they abuse it as well.
By the sounds of it, some of the other members have better advice than mine on this topic. I can answer the chemistry questions about the med, and even provide a medical rationale to its prescription (I'm NOT a doctor!!!), but I cannot speak to the long-term effects.
Take what you will from my words, but it appears avisg, vicki595, and, as always, IBKleen know what they're talking about from a practical standpoint, at least more than I do. I'd listen to them.
Yes,Jordan,you're right: Theoretically, it does seem to be a better drug to prescribe and many people DON'T have a problem with it...and it's prescribed for folks presumed not
to be addicts. I mean, what addict says to the doctor:"You know, I abuse meds so be careful what you give me". On this forum though...we're addicts or related to an addict.
So...we always come from that perspective.
Just curious...how long have you taken Vicodin and relatives?
I started on Vicodin/Percocet about two years ago. I had balcony collapse from beneath me and broke both feet, collapsed both arches, and tore half the ligaments in both.
I started out taking the recommended dosages, which did nothing for the volume of pain I was in, so I started exceeding it. I naturally ran out much quicker than expected. When I tried to get a refill, my doc told me I needed to wait. Lamenting this to an acquaintance at the time, he mentioned he had a couple hundred he'd sell me. After factoring the doc visits, it was actually cheaper to buy through him. So I did.
Two months later, the pain was pretty much gone, so I stopped taking the meds. That's when I started getting extremely violent WD symptoms. What I SHOULD have done was go and fess up to my doc then and there, but I was scared I'd be arrested, or branded a druggie, or what have you. I bought more, the WD pain went away.
As we all know, tolerances go up, and before I knew it, I was taking 7-10 a day. This scared me, so I went, got signed up with a Sub doc, and switched over. I stayed on Subs for about 5 months until, while working on one of the disaster relief projects after the fires out here in California, the structure we were trying to reinforce collapsed, driving a splinter of wood into my left eye. It hurt. A lot.
Problem was, I was Subs. As you probably know, pain meds do nothing while on Subs, so I got myself around 200 Norco, and started taking them until I got relief. It took about 20 or so a day. As the Subs lapsed and I switched firmly on to Norco, I found myself unable to taper any lower. The Subs themselves had driven my tolerance through the roof.
Here it is, about a year after the splinter, and I've been taking around 30 Norcos a day. I'm switching back to the Subs tomorrow, and I'm going to try and keep it down to around 12mg a day to start, but I'm still scared shi*tless.
Wow,Jordan...that sounds like it was rough! As with so many of us,we start out trying to get pain relief and it turns crazy,bad and awful. My love affair was with barbiturates so I HAD to taper. UGH!! When I stopped(finally!!) so did the pain. Imagine that!! It only took me 20 years... So,I've not taken Sub. Are you sure that 12 mgs. is the right dose to start? Is that why you're a bit scared?(A lot scared?) I thought folks started at a very low dose,like 2mgs.,and went up. But,I don't ever pretend to be a sub expert.It's
way too tricky and I'm always learning. So,that's why I ask. You can enlighten me.
Hey there! To answer your question.....Two reasons I think docs freely prescribe it. 1. They have been told too much BS from the makers of it, and they truly believe it is safe. 2. They don't get in trouble from the DEA, YET, for prescribing it like they would some painkillers. Maybe trouble is the wrong word, but it "looks bad" when they give out lots of narcotics.
Seriously, if I had a choice between arsenic and ultracet right now, I would seriously consider just taking the arsenic and getting it over with!!!! : ) The other way would just be too slow! I have been addicted to just about every controlled drug in the PDR, and ambien and ultram were the worst two I have ever detoxed from....EVER! Including some Class II narcotics. It was absolutely awful. And if you remember, both those drugs were said to be "non-habit forming" in the beginning! I can tell you from personal experience that that is a crock of $hit!
The thing that upsets me the most wasn't that I didn't know it was potentially addictive (I did). Nor was it the fact that it's bad for you long term (I knew that too).
What upsets me is the fact that when I had that window to avoid the whole mess, when I could have gone to my doc, confessed I'd been buying them black-market, and thrown myself on the mercy of the court to get out when I had the chance, I didn't.
It's nobody's fault by my own. The pain was bad, yes. It necessitated the pills, sure. I don't regret taking the medication when I had genuine need for it. It was the fact that I self-perscribed, got in over my head, and didn't have the stones to 'fess up and get it fixed. Instead, I dithered around trying to self-taper, then to switch meds (all self-perscribed, of course), etc. Finally, I hit a period of self-loathing, said "the hell with it," threw caution to the wind and just started enjoying myself, taking more and more.
In retrospect, my story is as pathetic as it is common.
As per your other question, no, I'm not worries about the dosages. This will be my second time on Subs, and my first go 'round was 16mg /day. My opiate dosages have recently been MUCH higher than when I'd initially switched to Subs, but I'm planning to enter the Subs at 1.5 pills per day (8mg tablets) instead of the 2 I was using before. I still expect WD symptoms, just not as severe as those I'm "enjoying" now. I'll start out with a sliver of a single pill, just to be sure I've waited long enough, but my daily dose will likely float around 12-16mg.
No, I'm scared for one simple reason: I have extremely, abnormally severe WD symptoms. I've been hospitalized for them twice when attempting a CT quit, and in both cases, despite the hospital knowing full well I was trying to cold turkey opiates, they gave me morphine injections, telling me that it's flat-out not safe for someone whose reactions are as extreme as mine to try and quit without assistance (a la buprenorphine).
As such, I live in genuine fear of the W/D's. Not just the unpleasantness of them (believe me, I'm only a day from the nastiest bits, so I'm coming up on the truly hideous parts), but the fact that I've had multiple medical professionals tell me that, lucky me, for some reason they're potentially lethal in my case. Just lucky, I guess.
Consequently, my primary fear when switching to the Subs is that I screw up the initial dose, kick myself into precipitated withdrawals, and spend the last 2 weeks of my life in excruciating agony in a hospital where they're unable to do anything to abate them. My NORMAL W/D symptoms are vomiting blood, full-body convulsions, skyrocketing then plummeting blood pressure, violent diarrhea, uncontrollable shaking... I can't even imagine what the vastly-worse, unstoppable precipitate variety would be like. I honestly think I'd off myself rather than spend 3 weeks in that state.
In short, I'm afraid I'll mess up the initial dose. I'm walking a fine line even now, I need to wait long enough to ensure the opiates are out of my blood to START the Subs, but need to start them before my symptoms become life-threatening. It's almost easier to just pill myself to death.
I'm trying though. I'm committed to quitting. I've moved, changed my phone number, severed all ties with my former dealers and scene friends, even changed jobs.It's just knowing that tomorrow there'll be a four-hour window in which I literally HAVE to start the Subs. Or else.
You have a very strange and unfortunate make-up,biologically speaking. What you describe is quite bizzare. So,it's now going on Friday,your last methadone was on Sunday,you're withdrawing now BUT it gets worse instead of better?? Thus,the window?
That is scary. And you really HAVE to take the Sub. You can't just cold turkey like a normal addict. LOL (sorry) I've got it now...I'm thinking this is a big undertaking on your part,alone. Would you feel at all better with a doctor involved as in a facility? Probably not. I understand. So,you'll do a teeny piece of Sub. wait half an hour and proceed or not.
I just had a thought...You CAN check to be sure the opiates are out of your system. You can buy a drug test at Walgreens and check your urine. It's not a lab but the tests
are accurate. You can also be drinking copious amounts of fluids to flush;but you're probably doing that already. Yes,I like my idea of the urine test...it can give you a more
objective base to work from. I know,I'm a genius. You can thank me later.
Post back on another thread ( LOL ) and let me know what you think...
Thanks everybody for all the advice. well, I TOOK 1, nothing, so i took 2 more. still nothing. so i will not even think twice again about starting ultracet--i dont want to get hooked on another substance in addition to the vicodin. not to mention, i felt NOTHING from it.... zero... it didnt even take away the headache i had.....i guess thats a good thing. ??
I have been getting vicodins from my primary care doc, for years, for chronic back pain.I dont have pain anymore and got addicted to the energy and motivation , kept saying my back still hurt, and the vikes just kept on coming......I never did a drug in my life, dont even drink socially, dont smoke, so i thought nothing of taking something for pain. now i have a nice little vike addiction. its onl vikes. i tried percs, oxycontin, and none of them made me feel the way vikes do. Right now I take 4 ES per day, my husband holds the bottle. I will take more if I had access to them.. I know I have to stop. I moved to another state, and had to find another doc. Of course he winced at the amount of vicodin i was on, and immediately wrote a prescription for Ultracet....so I have about 70 vikes left from my last rx.... im not about to go lying to another doctor to get vicodins.... i just cant....
one other question-- what is the deal with "pain management" doctors? do primary docs just refer you to them so THEY can write the narcotic prescriptions,or are they there to help find "alternative" methods of treating the pain?
og btw i do take ambien at night. I am completey addicted to that, and will never ever give it up!! I am competel addicted to sleeping properly, and i have no desire to take them during the day lol.....i never experienced a good nights sleep my whole life until i started ambien....
anyways, its hard to give up periods of clarity, motivation, optimism and energy 4 times per day...(the vicodins) however, they have been in a consistent , legal supply for a couple years now, and now that has changed, so i am leary of what will happen. i dont want to be sick, i dont want to give up the vicodins, but i will not seek them from another doctor, I dont think....
this is so hard....
Hey. Here's something to think about. Do you drive? If so, you may be getting the pills legally, but it is not legal to drive and take them. I found that out the hard way. And I felt exactly the same way about sleep as you. I got myself a nice little ambien addiction after I stopped the hydrocodone a few years ago. You may not want to take the amblien during the day right now, but when you stop the vicodin, you might be surprised what you will do. Just keep that in mind and be careful, ok? Ambien literally almost killed me. I mean.....I was on a respirator. I just don't want anyone to take that stuff lightly!!! : )
To answer your question about pain mang docs. Yes, I believe some docs just don't wanna write the scripts anymore, so they pawn you off of them for that!!!
I'm glad you aren't taking the ultracet, and I hope you decide to get off the other stuff! You're life will be so great, and you won't need a pill for ANY part of your day!!!! : )))
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