Ultram Lawsuit

[SusanFLA]

I was wondering if anyone had any information on the lawsuit against the makers of Ultram? I have had a few problems associated with this horrible drug and I know theres a lawsuit somwhere out there against the company.  I was wondering the status of that.   I am a 5 days out of detox from this thing and I am angry it can be so freely prescribed to people in recovery from "informed" physicians.

Susan

[cindi]

Susan,  I had heard about a lawsuit but nothing in detail,  I am currently taking this drug and am having a helluva time getting off.  I am trying to wean down then deal with what ever happens.  What did you go through and were you professionally detoxed?   Good Luck     cindi

[Barbara]

I also am on Ultram and am now cutting down from 10 -50 mg tabs a day which my pharmacist informed me is already over the toxic limit. I only took two today and so far felt a little more depression and tingling feeling but when I took two tabs this morning the affects significantly went away. I do now have diahrea though I think is from the Ultram cutdown.

The tingling and depression and nearly psychotic thinking was from just starting Prednisone six days ago and that triggered increasing instability and tingling and brain zaps. I went off it today and the symptoms are disappearing.

So far no other effects from the Ultram cutdown. I'll keep you posted.

[Barbara]

I also am on Ultram and am now cutting down from 10 -50 mg tabs a day which my pharmacist informed me is already over the toxic limit. I only took two today and so far felt a little more depression and tingling feeling but when I took two tabs this morning the affects significantly went away. I do now have diahrea though I think is from the Ultram cutdown.

The tingling and depression and nearly psychotic thinking was from just starting Prednisone six days ago and that triggered increasing instability and tingling and brain zaps. I went off it today and the symptoms are disappearing.

So far no other effects from the Ultram cutdown. I'll keep you posted.

[Barbara]

I also am on Ultram and am now cutting down from 10 -50 mg tabs a day which my pharmacist informed me is already over the toxic limit. I only took two today and so far felt a little more depression and tingling feeling but when I took two tabs this morning the affects significantly went away. I do now have diahrea though I think is from the Ultram cutdown.

The tingling and depression and nearly psychotic thinking was from just starting Prednisone six days ago and that triggered increasing instability and tingling and brain zaps. I went off it today and the symptoms are disappearing.

So far no other effects from the Ultram cutdown. I'll keep you posted.

[Barbara]

I also am on Ultram and am now cutting down from 10 -50 mg tabs a day which my pharmacist informed me is already over the toxic limit. I only took two today and so far felt a little more depression and tingling feeling but when I took two tabs this morning the affects significantly went away. I do now have diahrea though I think is from the Ultram cutdown.

The tingling and depression and nearly psychotic thinking was from just starting Prednisone six days ago and that triggered increasing instability and tingling and brain zaps. I went off it today and the symptoms are disappearing.

So far no other effects from the Ultram cutdown. I'll keep you posted.

[andrea_s]

Okie dokie Barbara! I think we get the point! Just joking my friend. Your reply getting posted 4 times gave me the giggles! Ahhh! It feels good to laugh! :)

[PS >>>>Annie]

.......When taking any pain medication for an extended period of time for PAIN, one should expect to become addicted; with this understanding, I for one would not sue any company on this basis.
People who have to live a life w/ a serious disease or injury,look at these medications as a God send.  On the other hand if you were taking that much, HOW CAN YOU BLAME THE MANUFACTURER???  Even diabetics become addicted to their medications.  To sum it all up: As long as people continue to blame doctors, manufacturers, etc. etc. etc. and everybody inbetween for their addictions....then patients needing pain medication will continue to struggle "in pain" to get physicians to prescribe what they so desperatly need to live some quality of a life.  Belive me, Ive been there and back again.  Its tuff.
Any time we put a pill in our mouths, as adults, we should take responsibility.  Sometimes its just a necessary trade off and who's to blame????Anne

[PS >>>>Annie]

......Here is a thought> You could have taken anti-inflamatorys for your pain, and they are NOT addictive,but they are dangerous
especially if an emergency were to take place and surgury would be required. Doctors will practicly give them away! (even though they do not work for pain). So everyone has a choice.  Ultram is somewhat safe if taken correctly, and works well on pain. I dont belive in these types of lawsuits.......Cause the "good will end up suffering for the bad."

[cindi]

Reply to Anne.   My thoughts concerning the manufacturer of Ultram.  When it first came out it was "deemed" safe and non addicting.  They claim that is was great for those people with addiction problems like myself. After many people "innocently" became physically addicted to this drug then the manufacturer turned around and said yeah well, we made a mistake and now are admitting that it is addicting.  Several recovering peole I know have taken it on a long term basis EXACTLY AS PRESCRIBED whether it be 6 a day or 8 a day and have some trouble getting off of it. I do agree with you that we as adults should take responsibility when taking medication.  that is a given however, innocent people like little grammas etc. are taking this drug thinking it is not "dope" as they call it and have not been given the correct info on it.  Physicians are not even being educated by the pharm reps re: the effects of the drug.  Many docs I spoke with re: ultram (and I know alot from my nursing career) were not aware of this addiction potential and not aware of the fact that it has caused seizures in many people.  So, who do you blame for misrepresentation?  The drug companies...No one is out to take these drugs away from people who are in need of them....Just better education for the prescribing Physician.  How do we, the consumer know everything there is to know about the drugs?  We are trusting the physician who is trusting the manufacturer.  The only reason I know alot about many various meds is from a 20 year career.  People who make it a habit to read the PDR on a daily basis isn't always as informed either.  Sometimes experience with different situations is our best teacher.

[The Dude]

ULTRAM SUCKS !! PERIOD.

[to Chad from Anne]

Your right,but I still dont think sueing is the answer.  I was told that Ultram was not addictive, but guess what> After I took it, I knew better.  Why u ask? Because it was mood altering.  Just as Opioid pain meds are.  I just think bringing this into court rooms will only make a bad situation worse.  You know what I mean.
Thanks

[to Chad from Anne]

Your right,but I still dont think sueing is the answer.  I was told that Ultram was not addictive, but guess what> After I took it, I knew better.  Why u ask? Because it was mood altering.  Just as Opioid pain meds are.  I just think bringing this into court rooms will only make a bad situation worse.  You know what I mean.
Thanks

[cindi]

To Anne,    You are right,  a lawsuit is not the answer.  If that was the case i could sue the tobacco company because my mom died of emphysema last month but that won't bring my mom back and she was aware of the dangers of smoking but did not quit till it was too late.  The point I am trying to make is the manufacturer of ultram sold this drug claiming it was the best thing since sliced bread cuz it was great for pain relief (not the case) and it was safe as far as addiction goes.  So, me, a recovering addict thinks this is cool, take 6 or 8 a day as needed and has a hell of a time getting off of them.  Finally the company says yeah, well, it is addicting and oh by the way it can cause seizures.  and the docs never knew.My Dr. only found out about all this **** by doing some investigating and oushing the drug rep till he finally admitted there were problems.  And now they are considering taking it off the market. So all the innocent people are addicted..and the withdrawals can be really really bad,  I have been through some major opiate withdrawals and the ultram is worse.  no, to sue is not the answer but who do we trust with this kind of thing?  thanks  cin

[The Dude]

Yes a lawsuit is not the answer to any problem.  The answer to most problems, is already lying within ones self.

[Barbara]

Sorry for the four posts, it was a computer glitch, not a brain glitch!

I have cut down to eight 50 mg tabs a day with no problems. The Prednisone was the problem.

The Klonopin is still the most effective for my particular problems.

[Barbara]

It would be more logical to sue liquour manufacturers like the lawsuits against the tobacco manufacturers rather than individual medication companies that don't make claims that Ultram is not addictive or will give side effects or withdrawal effects.

Alcohol is the worst legal drug in the world and nobody seems to want to sue the companies for all the deaths, sicknesses, medical costs for rehab and it is clearly addictive with no mention of addictiveness on the bottles or cans. Only that it is dangerous for pregnant women.

[annie]

.....Please dont take this wrong, but I just dont agree w/ these types of lawsuits.....now the tobacco co. is a different situation....People were just not informed about tobacco use and there were not a whole lot, if any, studies done way back when, but liquor on the other hand......hum, well if you decide to jump off the Golden Gate bridge....are you going to sew the contractors who built it...???? Just my opinion, however wrong it may be.........(:

[PS >>>>Annie]

....about this.  You know i've been called a really, deep thinker..........I'm not sure about this addiction/disease label.
One of my family members to whom I'm very close is suicidal.  He first abused alcohol, now drugs.  You know what his philosophy is
"I have no desire to be part of this world, sooo I will just continue to do drugs till it kills me"! Yeah its sad.  I know.  Here's a thought: Do you think that people are just suicidal; subconsciously, and this is why they drink and do drugs in lethal amounts, (knowing full well its killing them)or they just have a crappy outlook on life, or is it just a disease?  I dont know I'm just really starting to explore this area.....Help me out.  I know one thing for sure now, addiction; whichever form it comes in, affects every one of our live.  Whether it be you or someone you know.........

[Chad B]

Do you work for the Ultram pharmacuetical company Anne?  Haha LOL

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yes, I believe it is a disease that causes suicidal thoughts and tendencies and a crappy outlook on life.  Low self esteem is another symptom.  In the end, we are people who no longer care where we find ourselves when we wake up in the morning.  We have literally "lost our legs" to go on.  Can you blame us for wanting to die?  It is the bottom of the barrel for us.  The trouble is that we are so connected to one another that our transgressions effect everyone in the end.

Yes, I have a crappy attitude about life.  I'm angry that we are  not living in the Garden Of Eden!  Enough said by this addict.  J.B.

[Anne....to J.B.]

.......I'm not being judgemental....when I speak of these scenarios...I'm thinking of this person (someone close to me) I mentioned in my above posting...I Really am trying to understand him.  By the way I'm the one that has the lifelong injury/pain...he just has suicidal tendencies w/ no physical limitations.....That's why im trying to figure him out.  He has a very bad attitude about life.  Sometimes I think "man what is he complaining about???" He thinks he has problems......at least he can walk when he wants tooo.  lol  But sometimes i'm worried and dont know what to say when he says these horrible things about himself.  An by the way he abuses prescrip. meds and other things.
......And no I dont work for ultram....belive me somtimes i get p'od at the medicine too.  I've been taking it for a couple of years now......If you read some of my post, the explanations are there.
.....Has anyone had withdrawals from Flexaryl (sp)????
Annie

[PS >>>>Annie]

.....ps...I came to this site out of curiosity...and realized that I could be seeing myself (in you all) in the future.  I also realized by paying attention to your stories that a person very close to me may be an addict.....for different reasons than you all, cause he really doesnt have serious health issues. JB, Ive read your post and have nothing but the utmost respect for you and your situation.  I hope I didnt offend you.  I know what you mean about affecting the people around us.....My family (mom) wants to run for the hills, everytime I go to the Doctor.   ha ha  My life definatly affects/effects her life.  She's taken care of me, on and off, over the yrs.
Have a very good evening.
Annie  (:

[cindi]

To Anne.  My husband has been on flexeril for several years and when he ran out he did not have any withdrawals that we knew of. cindi

[Annie.... to Cindi]

...Thanks, cindi.  Trying to stay informed.  Had terrible spasms in my leg.  It would just curl up and I had no control...this would happen every night, but thanks to flex. hasnt happend once.
Will continue w/ it.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

No you didn't offend me at all by anything you said.  I'm curious though about your leg cramping problem. What is the cause of this if you don't mind my asking?  My doctor thinks that I might have something called neuropathy(sp) and has RX'd a drug called Soma.  So far it has had no effect on the problem.  Thanks!  J.B.

[Annie to JB]

..Just looked up neuropathy.  Thought this could be what happends to my leg. I do not have symptoms of numbness, but there is pain and my foot curls in, and my whole leg draws up. Thought it could be RSD, Doc says no.  Grant it, this hasnt taken place since the Flexaril. I've had no official tests done, just taking my docs word that its bad spasms.  What caused this?? My diag. status post multiple trauma due to mva.  Pelvic fractures involving the SI joint, acetabulum, as well as a mid-shaft femur fracture, which was treated by open reduction internal fixation of the femur ( a long-plate/Rod). I basically was shattered.  Sounds horrible, but Ive been blessed w/ many years of a pain free, mobile life, untill now. Will be having surg. soon to remove hardware, because its symptomatic. Predictions say that I will  become a candidate for total hip arthroplasty.
JB, I know this isnt a Pain site, but I realize that I will be on strong medication...I want to know about the warning signs of addiction.  I feel really comfortable here. Given all this info, do you think that Neuropathy could be what I have??  Do you think flexaril would help you? Have you tried it?  Annie

[abbot]

I can't understand how people are able to get enough narcotic pain relievers by doctors in which they can take as many as 10-15per day!
I thought I was a severe addict just taking 4percocet#5s per day!
Thank God I have not built up such a tolerance that I would have to take much more.
I do understand the basis of addiction though,as I used to get relief by taking only one Tylenol#3 and now....one of those have no effect whatsoever and I have to take two of them instead.
Getting this type of medication in my area is next to impossible!
It's tough when you finally find something that helps only to discover that you can't get a refill(which forces me to dr.shop)
I have a medicine cabinet that would impress any pharmacist,but the only pills in there that will provide relief for me have narcotics in them.
Your told to weigh the benefits of a drug with the risks involved before taking it,and that's what I did yet when trying to get a refill...I'm treated like a junky or something!
What do I do? Take the crappy anti-inflammatory medications that don't help and give me heartburn(which forces me to by more medicine for that?)
I think I have done well to have Reumathoid Arthritis,surgery for a pinched nerve in one elbow,the other elbow pending,and still able to work full time.
Perhaps I'm having myself a pitty party here,but why don't people understand that there are people in legit pain?
If they could come up with pain relief for me without drugs,then I would be first in line...but don't punish me for those that take pills just to get high!

[PS >>>>Annie]

.....Well we sure sound alike.  If you go through the threads and read my post starting from Tramadol 1/26...You will see yourself.  I've been ranting and raving about this for sometime.
I suffered for years, and it wasnt untill I literally began to fall apart at the seams that I began to get some relief.  I know the feeling of being treated like an addict cause you want relief.  My doctor shows disappointment all over his face when I come to the ofc.  no matter how hard he tries to hide it.  HE IS SCARED! The area I live in is pro-anti drug. lol  What can we do???  Any suggestions.

[PS >>>>Annie]

...You know, I could tell you things that would make your hair stand on end.  When I had this accident several yrs ago, My ortho was a resident under the teaching of one particular dr. who I will let remain nameless.  I had a steal pin through and through my leg above my knee...and I dreaded the day this would be removed.  I was in traction and my leg was being pulled out of my pelvis by a set of weights.  well, anyway, the day came.  The head dr. would not give me a local or anything.  He stood beside my bed an coached the resident ortho on how to clamp it and unscrew it.  My resident ortho pleaded w/ the other dr. to give me a local, as I screamed in pain, and he said NO..your prolonging it.  The nurses cringed at their station as they heard my screams of agony.  Do you know what this ortho told me when it was over?  You are a trooper, and should get a medal for your strenth.  "A little pain is good for the soul!"...I wanted to punch him.  This same dr. told me that my life would not be guided by pain medicine.  These are the attitudes I have had to endure.
I was in college at the time of this mva.  My dream is to one day go back into the legal field, and go before the legislature and tell my story and that of others.  This is of course a dream, because I am dealing w/ a lot of health issues right now.

[cindi]

To Annie,  How sad, what you went through, I worked an ortho floor at the hsopital and ortho is extremely painful.  Believe it or not when I transferred to a surgical unit I used to get "reprimanded" for encouraging my patients to take the pain meds.  If they 1-2 pills ordered I would encourage them to take the 2 instead of one. When my mom was dying 6 weeks ago they would not increase or switch her pain med.  They said they felt that she just wanted to be numb as not to have to deal with what she was going through.  I was livid.  I called the facility and threatend them with every possible action.  When i used the N word  Neglect....they upped her dose.  finally her lung specialist stepped in and took control and when my mom died on Christmas day she was pain free at least.  I have been degraded, humiliated and made to feel like scum on pond scum because i needed something for the pain i am constantly in.  So I know hiw everyone here feels re: the pain meds.  take care  cindi

[PS >>>>Annie]

.....I feel like I might be posting here to much, and taking up some needed space.  I just feel so much better having people like you that have first hand experience to talk to.  I have read about your mother and please know, she is now at piece.  I am not afraid of death, an often look forward to it.  This is whole situation is disturbing...Its like choosing the least of two evils...pain vs. addiction.  I too, get upset when this medication runs low, but only because it enables me to operate w/o pain.  Its nice.  I think the most difficult thing to deal w/ when u have an injury is this:  Everyone around you, has forgotten what you went through and expects you to go on like you have no problems.  For ex.  My brother once asked me to help him unload a huge television out of his vehicle, and I just stood there in confusion.  I could go on, but feel I have revealed to much about myself already and you never know when a relative could be reading these post.  Maybe they dont mean to be, but can be very inconsiderate. Thanks for your reply.

[cindi]

Annie, I could go on and on re: the chronci pain issue, my husband and I are both in pain almost everyday, but sommehow we have to go on  we have 2 small kids to raise.  Please, if you ever need to talk you can e-mail me at ***@****    cindi

[amanda]

How i wish i could just come off this drug - called zydol in england -- i was on morphine ( mst) and was taking more and more just to feel normal -- times i ran out were terrible - i was sure i was dying -i switched to zydol as i had ran out of the mst and found that i felt the same - even " higher" in fact -and as they wernt controlled they were easier to obtain.  That was about 3 months ago now - they did help the pain from a spinal injury but it was the physical symptoms i needed to take them for.  Im now taking an unbelivable amount wach day - im afaid of damaging my liver - does anyone know if this would be likely or is it just a scare story? ( i take up to 30 on a bad day).
Please let me know - i know i do need help and want to cut down. im back at work now and cant be on these  - at times i feel dizzy and a bit sicky - not surprising though as im taking silly amounts. The gp has no idea -i get 300 tablets each 2 weeks - it should be every month - so far they havent said anything to me.  I know they will soon though - and god knows what ill do then - i couldnt just come off or even cut down quickly - i need to do it slowly -even my family has no clue about how many i take . I have pictures of me dying of an overdose - not intentional -and it scares me alot - i dont want to die - im happy in life - have a husband and 3 kids.
If anyone knows the real dangers please let me know asap - thanks.

[Annie.........Thank you Cindi]

Will put it in my email address book.  Thanks......You have no idea what that meant.  Nice to know people understand.  I've read your post, and think I understood, you have a back injury from nursing, but what happend to your husband.  How do you two get through this.  I know it has to be tuff, Just like JB and his wife.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I can understand what you are going through.  I used morphine for several months and it's tough to get off of it.  I tapered down with hydrocodone and it was still pretty scary.  What exactly is Zydol?  If it is anything like Tramadol or Ultram, I would try to taper down slowly.  I'm not a doctor so take this advice with a grain of salt.(Indiana idiom)  I would try to taper by cutting the dose by 10 to 20% per week.  You have to be committed to tapering though.  Good luck!  J.B.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

About the neuropathy thing, my doctor isn't sure yet what is going on with me.  I had a severe injury to my leg years ago and ended up with osteomylitis(sp?)which is a bone marrow infection. I also had a fractured pelvis.  At any rate he has had me on Lorcet for pain for months.  He also doesn't know that I quit taking them 17 days ago.  I felt that I was starting to abuse them and got scared enough to quit them.  I'm back to taking Aleve again and just bearing the pain.

I go in next week for more tests and evaluations for this pain issue.  Once, I asked my doctor for Ultram and he said he didn't prescibe it and thought it unwise for recovering addicts to take.  That's all I know about Ultram.  I surely have heard a lot of scarey things about it on this forum though.  Personally, I'd rather take something that tried and true if you know what I mean?  J.B.

[PS >>>>Annie]

Good morning!  I worry about Ultram too.  It was the only medication I had at one time.  Till just recently. Did you ever taste it, as it goes down. YUk...Makes you wonder how something w/ such an unatural chemical make-up wouldnt harm your body over a period of time.  Its like drinking gasoline or something.  This stuff has to be toxic, but it does work on minor pain. Doctors will prescribe it cause its non-narcotic.  Makes you wonder who they are looking out for, you or themselves. Does your doctor have specific reasons for not prescribing Ultram.  I'd like to know.  I'll ditch it in a hurry.
Thanks!

[cindi]

To Annie,  You hit the nail when you said i received my back injury at work,  I did hurt my back and have really damaged it over the past 20 years i spent as a nurse.  Along with that I had been diagnosed as having Thoracic outlet syndrome.  My husband was hurt at work before I even met him.  He has herniated discs and bulging discs in lumbar area and in his neck.  He just went to a neew dr. today and was told he would not help him because it was a workers comp case.  These docs in this area suck,  you can't get **** for pain except nsaids, and steroids.  I don't want to live on Prednisone,,,,it played it's part in killing my mom.   As far as ultram goes,  I have been on and off of ultram for a long time.  it is very addicting.  The withdrawals are comparable to opiates.   At first it was the best thing since sliced bread as far as non addicting, etc. but now so many people are havng a hard time getting off of it.  Even people without a history of addiction.  From what I understand, (my friend is a pharmacist) they are trying to make it a controlled drug and eventually take it off the market.  It'll kill your liver as well.   so far my liver enzymes have been good.   take care and maybe i'll talk to ya soon  cindi

[annie]

.....Cindi, what about driving to a neighboring state or something.....i feel for u guys.......you've read my post.  The pain docs ive been to, only prescribe ultram.....go figure.  "a pain specialist"....none the less.  I know all to well what you're going through.  Seems your complaints are falling on DEAF ears.  Dont give up.  Dont suffer.  If you have medical documentation......they cant let you suffer.  I just recently been put on Vicoden after suffering on and off for 8 yrs.  It was my PCP that caved in, reluctantly.  I've been seeing him for 4 yrs now.  He knows I dont abuse prescrip meds, and I think thats why he gives them now, but I dont know how informed he is about pain/tolerance levels.  He may re-think his position, get scared and quit giving me the meds.  Chin-up and k.i.t.

[cindi]

Annie,  My husband goes to a new doc tomorrow.  he switched from our old one who gives Nsaids as a rule.  I feel more for my husband.  I can live with this somedays.  But him,  i have seen him down for days at a time.  Back and neck swollen, ears red. pain in his jaws head etc.  To the point he has been in tears.  He did once make the comment if it wansn't for me and the kids he could blow his brains out   scared me to death.  All though i live in discomfort,  the worst pain i have ever been in was labor   LOL  so i can go on with this.ther are some days i do need some hefty pain meds.  I do have a script now for Norco.  Am going to get it filled tomorrow.  Maybe we can talk about this if you e-mail me privately.  With the Norco I may be able to take 1 or 2 a day and be ok with the pain.  Have treid them beofre and for some reason they helped my pain better than Vicodin but I did not get the warm fuzzy feeling from them that I got from vics which is a good thing for me.....Later tater   cindi

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

No, I've never tasted Ultram because I've never had it.  You mean it actually tastes worse than Lorcet or Vicodin?  Yuck!

I don't know why my doctor is against the drug.  He just gave me a startled look like I had suddenly caught his attention.  You've seen the "startled doctor look", haven't you?  Well anyway, I'm trying to stay on his good side because he's the best doctor I've ever had and I don't want to rock the boat.  BTW, he was in the nursing profession before becoming an MD.

Hope your day is going well!  J.B.

[Annie........To JB, Cindi or "Pat"....]

.....My day is not going to well.  I woke up w/ a migraine.  JB, I didnt have the courage to call my doctor about switching to something w/ less APAP.  You have no idea what I had to go through to get the meds in the first place.  I just dont feel comfy talking to my doc.  about these things.  Why?? Well you know the negative stigma attached to this whole ordeal. I do sense his un-easiness when I'm in his ofc.  I'm really new to all this.  I dont even know if I'm supposed to make an appt. when I need a refill or just call in.  What's the normal procedure.  Now I just read above, that your ins. can refuse refills.  My doc gave me twenty vics last month, and 45 once I gave him my ortho reports.  He didnt tell me what to do next and I didnt ask.  

Tom:.....I did the deal w/ the meds and water.  Worked great, but was terrible going down.  Thats why I will just try to get my doctor to give me something w/ less APAP.  I've taken 45 tabs in 2 weeks.....Do you think I'm taking to much.  As I told jb above...I dont know where to go from here.  Its a dam shame you gotta go through this ****......Sometimes, I just feel like dealing w/ the pain.  I should have been candid w/ my doc when I was there, and now I can kick myself.  He didnt give me a course of treatment....sooo now I dont know what to do. I dont want to ruin this relationship, cause my pain WILL get worse over the next several months.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I know all too well the feeling when asking for more pain drugs and refills.  Sometimes I think that doctors can see right through you!  Pharmacists have refused early refills at times and have told me that my insurer wouldn't approve them.  That's the only time I've had problems...early refills, like two weeks too soon.  It also puts up the red flags to your doctor and pharmacist that you may be abusing the meds.  It sure puts me on a guilt trip at the very least!  J.B.

[annie]

.......But whats to soon??  I never new about this till reading the forum.  My main concern is to muster up the nerve to say: "hay doc, how bout something that wont kill me."  So to speak.  I shouldnt have to look out for this, he should know better......long term treatment..hum.....long acting meds w/ little Tylenol.  See I have learned a great deal from this forum.
I wasnt that concerned about my internal organs till visiting here.

[pat to Annie]

Annie,
I discussed your dilemma with tom. He said that 45 tabs in two weeks amounts to 3 or so a day. This is not enough Tylenol to threaten your liver unless you have some aspect of liver disease. Do you? If not, then 3 Vics or Lortabs per day is nothing to worry about at all! The only way you could make this a liver-threatening practice is if you drank alcohol with your pain relievers. Tom recommends you abstain from all alcoholic beverages or medicines while using Tylenol. If you do this, don't trouble yourself a bit about your current Tylenol intake. You're well within the safe-use range for Tylenol products. When you start taking a dozen or more Vicodin per day, then you can be concerned about your liver!

As far as the "too soon" stuff with insurance, what's happening is, your doctor's instructions, say, 1 every 4 hrs as needed, are programmed into your rx record. The computer just does the math, and kicks it back if it thinks you are asking for them too soon. No big deal. I use a privately owned pharmacy run by two pharmacists I've known for 20 years. If the insurance says no, I tell them, "Make it for cash."  They don't even ask anymore, they know the deal. And I simply pay for the privilege of refilling it before the insurance will pay. It costs more, but it gives me piece of mind knowing that I can pretty much get my refills when I want them, as long as I'm willing to pay the full cost of the rx. Chain pharmacies like Walgrens or Sav-on or Rite Aid, very from place to place. Some will refill early for cash, but most of the "new style" pharmacies play it buy the book and cheerfully tell you no with that plastic smile on their face.

See if you can find a mom-and-pop pharmacy where you simply call in the refill and say "that will be for cash, no need to run it through the insurance." It all depends on what kind of pharmacist you get.  Most of the rosy-cheeked Asian pharmacists at the new chains just go by the book and that's that.

[To: "Pat" and JB]

I can't tell you what it means to me, for the first time since these problems, to be able to come to this computer, ask questions and get an answer.  Yall are too kind.  I did not realize what I was missing.  I feel so much better.  If I'm getting on your nerves, please let me know.  lol I've been having a lot of problems medically (which yall know about), and personally.  I always come away from the computer learning something.  Thanks a bunch!
Ps....Pat, ask Tom how the tapering is going?? Hope he's ok.

[pat to Annie]

tom's taper was a complete failure. Didn't get to day two - literally. All that spreadsheet and math for nothing. Tom never really expected to get through it, simply because its motive force is the one thing tom has the least of: will, self-control - the ability to say, " two would feel great but the schedule says one, therefore ..."

He wanted me to relay to you the following:

"Addiction comes from deep inside the reptilian brain that lies at the core of our beings, the oldest, most entrenched and unquestionalby most powerful source of wants, needs and the impulses to satisfy those wants and needs. The cerebrum is lucky to even be consulted. The best it can hope for is a generous tip at the end of the evening.

No, mt only hope is one of the opiate agonist (MMT/LAAM) therapies, or treatment with a mixed agonist/antagonist drug such as buprenorphine. Before consigning myself to methadone, clearly the easiest route at this point, I would like to try detoxing with buprenorphine in a private, dignified doctor/patient relationship setting.

Click on this link for the complete picture of buprenorphine's impendng arrival in California doctors offices.

http://www.csam-asam.org/index.htm

If bup fails, that is, if I cannot finally taper off with bup and coax my own brain to start producing natural endorphins, then I will accept the finality of MMT and thank god (and Dan) for it.

I hope this has answered your questions. If you would like to research specific prescription drugs and the nomenclature that comes with them, click here:

www.rxlist.com.

Bookmark this site (make it a Favorite in your browser).

Never settle for the tid bits your doctor gives you about the drugs he's prescribing to you.

Annie, Knowledge is power. Knowledge is light and joy and the matrix of eternity enfolding, consuming and reusing you for its own pleasure. Live on and never stop questioning and wondering. We are the eyes of god gazing at our own reflection.

[Annie........To Pat]

Unequivocally put.  Will do. Do you belive there is a reason for everything?  I want to make changes too.
I belive my path will; however treacherous at times, lead me to my purpose.  Sometimes man's will supercedes, but don't ever loose hope or faith!  I would like to say much more, but I've been neglecting my work.  I feel drawn here for some reason. Anyway, you have probably heard enough of this to last a lifetime.  
I wish I had the time to increase my knowledge, which the demands of my life prohibit, but you are correct in what you say.  I'm a little confused about the "God" part in your passage.  Pleas explain.  I know, duh.  I'm just a "grasshopper," eager to learn. lol Hang in there.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I've tried taper schedules in the past as well and don't last long.  Many people have the discipline to follow through with it but I don't.  Like the book says, "some are worse than others".  That refers to people and not tapering schedules.  So for me it's been an all or nothing proposition for the most part.

Annie, I was only up to four Lorcet per day and found it necessary to quit.  I started to take two doses at a time instead of one by "saving" the first dose and adding it to the second dose. That way I felt like I was really doing something.  The truth is that my tolerence was building and needed more weekly.  I began pill counting and playing games with them in short.  The point is, if you think you have a problem then you do have a problem.  With almost three weeks of being clean, I still can't be assured that I won't try opiates again.  The whole thing is like a cycle that I can't get off of.  Like the movie Groundhog Day!  Today, I want to use really badly due to pain and fatigue and all the other **** in my life.  Maybe I will and maybe I won't.... One minute at a time right now! We have liquor and benzos in the house and all it would take is just one dose of these and I think that I would cave in.  Gotta get out of here, now.  J.B.

[Annie...........to JB]

..........Just take it one day at a time JB.  Talk to someone before you cave.  You've come to far now to go back into that vicious cycle.  I dont know if your a spiritual person or not, but ask God to give you supernatural strength during this time.
I'll pray for you.

[Pat]

.....Thinking about you.  Did you see my post under encouragement???  There is a guy on mmt, I think.  Maybe he can help you???

[oops.....thats me up there]

.......Annie

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Reading your last post I can see that you are able to give as well as recieve emotional support about our addiction problems.  That's why and how we work so well together as human beings!  Yes, I do believe in God and am for the most part spiritual in how I live day to day.  There are times when I try to override God and take matters into my own hands, however.  When I go that route, failure usually follows.  I did end up caving in though and took a dose of pain meds yesterday and this morning.  I did talk to my wife before doing this.  She already knew that I was suffering more than usual and not my pleasant self lately.  I suppose that I'm still wrestling with the addiction vs dependence issue.  Maybe I'm too preoccupied with this issue for my own good.  At any rate, I'm going to be very careful. The good people who frequent this forum know what I am talking about and have been a comfort to me.  God bless all of you!  J.B.

[oops.....thats me up there]

Glad to hear you will be carefull.  I think you are on the right track.  Dont suffer tooo long.  Your wife will help you.  Your being very open and honest.  Keep doing that.  
I have an update....Wasn't sure where to post it.  This seems like a good place.  I had a terrible night.  Very severe pain.  I'm sure yall gathered that something was wrong w/ me in my last posts'.  My ortho now thinks I have sciatic (sp?) nerve damage.  Can not have the test(mri) done because of the implant.  Soooo guess what.  Since its loose anyway, we will remove it next week.  I'm scared.  I wanted to wait, but I'm just putting off the inevitable.  I will post during this time to keep up w/ my "new" friends.  I've received (like you jb) sooo much support from this site.  Came here for knowledge and left w/ friendships.
Keep me in your thoughts, and I will be in touch.
Sincerely,
Annie
Ps.....he has given me something for pain (can u belive it) Oxycodone...5/500....1 every 4-6 hours.  Not helping much. Guess Ive already built up tolerance to meds.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

You mentioned an implant in your post.  Is that the screw mechanism they put in your hip?  I think that removing it may be a big help.  A fellow I worked with had something like that in his spine(plastic screws?)  Anyway, he is in much better shape now that they have been removed.  They had him on the Fentanyl patches for weeks as I recall and he couldn't work or even drive a car.  Now he is out jogging and playing golf!  J.B.

[annie]

Well ya know JB...that's what my doctor was trying to tell me, but I kept putting it off.  Its called a Wittman plate, I believe.  A large screw goes into the femur head and the plate lays down on the side of the femur and stops about 1 to 2 inches above the knee(not even used anymore).  There are screw holes every inch or so.  Many of them.  This is why I was so scared.  I can refracture the bones through the holes if not careful.  Glad you told me about your friend.  I really needed to hear that.  See, I had many surgurys, but this one bothers me and I dont know why.  My doctor cracked a joke and said " my, youve become quite attached to that plate!"  I'm just gonna go for it!.....If test are ok, I will be going in Thursday.  I will email you Thursday night or Friday.  THanks for the support.  How have you been doing.  Not much meds???  Taking it slow, I hope.
k.i.t.
Annie

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yes, we have our crosses to bear.  Have you ever heard that corny statement before?  I'm taking it easy on the meds and think at this point I'm doing okay.  My wife has noticed a big difference in my demeanor the past two days anyway.  And I'm laughing again!  Not at anything in particular but I'm just feeling good for a change.  

I'm dreading going to my next doctor's appt on Wednesday.  He has been talking about draining my abdomen of fluid.  I have ascities and have accumulated a lot of water lately.  This is caused by liver problems.  I just hope that I don't have to suffer much with this procedure.  I heard that it can be very painful and Demerol will be administered beforehand.  It's the unknown part that scares the hell out of me.  I think that you know how I feel right now with all you've been through, Annie.
Take care and have a great weekend!  J.B.

[tom to J.B.]

when I was getting epidural cortisone injections for my first disk bulge, they gave Demerol, as apposed to all the other narcs, because it has a muscle-relexant effect the other narcs don't.  might have something to do with it. Good luck though, buddy. You're in my thoughts every day, along with Marty. Tke care. Fell better.

[to JB]

Jb your gonna be alright.  I sense your state of peace.  We will all be thinking about you and Marty.  You have been through a lot, and it has prepared you for whatever your enduring.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Thanks, Tom.  I've had Demerol in the past for different procedures and it knocks me out cold for some reason.  The last time I had it, it was mixed with Valium.  I woke up two hours later and didn't even know why I was in the hospital!  If you ever need to have a liver biopsy done, ask for Demerol.  I've had it done both with and without Demerol in the past.

Hope you are okay.  J.B.

[oops.....thats me up there]

Sorry......it didnt post my name..

[bill...]

I hope there is an answer i am currently going through ultram withdrawl's ..AND IT SUCK'S..  im going on 72 hours and im depressed achey (achy) i have an uncomfortabl warmth in the pit of my belly and i have no drive how much longer can this last tommorow is  president's day but my doc's office will be open ..then i will have to deal with his b.tch of a secretery treating me like a junkie. my ortho told me ultram is a safe drug and i believed him  until i ran out one day ..i thought i had the flu but when i re newed the script it all went away  and that's the day i knew i was an addict... any one reading this and taking ultram BEWARE it is an addictive drugthis is the first time ive tried to quit... and id' hate to say it but ultram is winning
any one know of any over the counter drugs that will ease this trasition .... any help would be appretiated

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I'm soory you are having a rough time with Ultram withdrawals.  There have been many sad stories here about this supposedly safe drug.  I have no experience with it and don't intend to.
In the past, I've used OTC meds like Benedryl, Aleve and Dramamine.  If you have the runs, try Immodium or Donnagel.  Some people have found relief using herbal stuff like valerian root and ginger for nausea.  I'd stay away from alcohol because it can make things even worse than they are now.  Dr, Steve recommended a drug called Trazdone in his post up above.  

Personally, I would talk with my doctor first about this problem before continuing with the Ultram.  J.B.

[bill]

thanx jb .....but i find im trading one evil for another i have pretty much gotten through the withdrawls{still feel it BIG time}
i have nerve damage to my knee and lo and behold it is coming back with a vengence...now im in pain and STILL going through withdrawls wich does not make for a nice person...ive tried tylenol.. tylenol 3 {makes me sleepy} lortab  just plain makes me sick to my stomach ultram as bad as it is ..is really the only thing that work's so what am i supposed to do?live in pain and be miserable or be an addict and be able to go to work and live a somewhat pain free life im still off ultram and it hurt's it sucks i feel so godamn sick ive already missed a day of work
any meds that any one knows about that works and doesnt turn your guts inside out id' love to know thanx....bill

[J.B. to bill]

I'm sorry, I thought you were asking about OTC drugs for help with withdrawals.  I have been given Talwin for back pain and Tordol for broken ribs and both worked well for me.  My wife can't take Lortab either but can handle Tylox.  

Did you ever ask your doctor about this problem yet?  J.B.

[spook]

Pharmacology of tramadol
by
Dayer P, Desmeules J, Collart L
Service de Pharmacologie Clinique
et Consultation de la Douleur,
Hopital Cantonal Universitaire, Geneve, Suisse.
Drugs 1997; 53 Suppl 2:18-24

ABSTRACT
()-Tramadol is a synthetic analogue of codeine. It is a central analgesic with a low affinity for opioid receptors. Its selectivity for mu receptors has recently been demonstrated, and the M1 metabolite of tramadol, produced by liver O-demethylation, shows a higher affinity for opioid receptors than the parent drug. The rate of production of this M1 derivative (O-demethyl tramadol), is influenced by a polymorphic isoenzyme of the debrisoquine-type, cytochrome P450 2D6 (CYP2D6). Nevertheless, this affinity for mu receptors of the CNS remains low, being 6000 times lower than that of morphine. Moreover, and in contrast to other opioids, the analgesic action of tramadol is only partially inhibited by the opioid antagonist naloxone, which suggests the existence of another mechanism of action. This was demonstrated by the discovery of a monoaminergic activity that inhibits noradrenaline (norepinephrine) and serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine; 5-HT) reuptake, making a significant contribution to the analgesic action by blocking nociceptive impulses at the spinal level. ()-Tramadol is a racemic mixture of 2 enantiomers, each one displaying differing affinities for various receptors. ()-Tramadol is a selective agonist of mu receptors and preferentially inhibits serotonin reuptake, whereas (-)-tramadol mainly inhibits noradrenaline reuptake. The action of these 2 enantiomers is both complementary and synergistic and results in the analgesic effect of ()-tramadol. After oral administration, tramadol demonstrates 68% bioavailability, with peak serum concentrations reached within 2 hours. The elimination kinetics can be described as 2-compartmental, with a half-life of 5.1 hours for tramadol and 9 hours for the M1 derivative after a single oral dose of 100mg. This explains the approximately 2-fold accumulation of the parent drug and its M1 derivative that is observed during multiple dose treatment with tramadol. The recommended daily dose of tramadol is between 50 and 100mg every 4 to 6 hours, with a maximum dose of 400 mg/day; the duration of the analgesic effect after a single oral dose of tramadol 100mg is about 6 hours. Adverse effects, and nausea in particular, are dose-dependent and therefore considerably more likely to appear if the loading dose is high. The reduction of this dose during the first days of treatment is an important factor in improving tolerability. Other adverse effects are generally similar to those of opioids, although they are usually less severe, and can include respiratory depression, dysphoria and constipation. Tramadol can be administered concomitantly with other analgesics, particularly those with peripheral action, while drugs that depress CNS function may enhance the sedative effect of tramadol. Tramadol should not be administered to patients receiving monoamine oxidase inhibitors, and administration with tricyclic antidepressant drugs should also be avoided. Tramadol has pharmacodynamic and pharmacokinetic properties that are highly unlikely to lead to dependence. This was confirmed by various controlled studies and postmarketing surveillance studies, which reported an extremely small number of patients developing tolerance or instances of tramadol abuse. Tramadol is a central acting analgesic which has been shown to be effective and well tolerated, and likely to be of value for treating several pain conditions (step II of the World Health Organization ladder) where treatment with strong opioids is not required

[spook]

8000 times less affinity for the "mu" receptor than morphine, what about kappa and delta receptors,also cocaine and amphetamine are effective analgesics,so the drug we are discussing,does it have No effect on Dopamine Neurons.If people are getting withdrawals I think they left out kappa,delta and Dopaminergic effects.
How about this one"Parnate is a non-hydrazine MAOI"is that descriptive?,like saying apples are a non-orange fruit,why the deception?because the Germans invented Tranycypromine(Parnate)as one of a series of Amphetamine analogues.
What about the brilliant Scientist who though that Heroin was a non addicting substitute(cure in those days)for morphine dependence.Or have TRIALS of drugs improved somewhat since then?.
Besides it is not Opioid receptors that make Opioids addictive and Euphoric>it is their effect (indirect)upon dopaminergic neurons in the Ventral Tegmental Area of the mesencephalon(midbrain),even Xanax exerts effects their.
Kappa receptors in the CA3 field of the hippocampus contribute to reward seeking,etc,etc.
If the drug companies think they can pull the wool over my eyes,I will fight to the death,take me on,I did not study 8 hours a day for 23 years for nothing,if I leave a mark upon this earth that in anyway helps humanity,it will be by exposing such unscrupulous behaviour.I mean do they really think that by avoiding the "mu" receptor they have made a non-Opioid,non-Addictive drug?.No sorry ULTRAM is addictive and causes Euphoria.

[cjunk]

i have been addicted to Ultram for over a year now.  My dosage and tolerance is up to 10-14 50 mg tabs a day, spread throughout day and night.  i feel that this drug has really lowered the quality of my life and i no longer feel happy and healthy.  i would like some advice on how to safely get off the drug without facing horrible withdrawal.  how steadily should i decrease my dosage, etc...?

also, what sort of permanant (if any) physical problems and/or damage am i facing after over a year's addiction to Ultram?

[spook]

I would definately NOT expect any permanent damage etc,so do not worry. Not enough knowledge yet to offer helpfull detox drugs, maybe try a slow!! taper, my only complaint is it is ADDICTIVE and causes withdrawals.Through other mechanisms other that "mu" receptors.

[cindi]

I and a few others I know have suffered through ultram addiction   sometimes if you have access to something else like Vicodin, darvocet etc. this will help yiu get off the ultram but then you have to be careful to not become addicted to the other stuff..taper the dosage..a friend of mine taking 15 or more a day did have siezures when coming off of ultram cold turkey..my sister felt is was the worse thing she has ever felt in her life......good luck   cin

[whitedove]

As a recovering addict and now addicted to hydrocodone, I found that ultram was equally as addicting.  It is opiate based and anything opiate based, is addicting for me.  That appears to be what my "drug of choice" consists of.  While I like the relief of other painkillers, there are certain ones, such as ultram that provide that Opiate sensation and given that it's not classified as a narcotic, it is more freely given, so I had a lot and had to taper off.  It wasn't easy.  A lot of people I know in AA and NA take it because their Dr.'s think it's OK too, since it's not a narcotic (yet). I can see why there is a lawsuit.

Good luck; For anyone who hasn't tried it, my advice would be not to if you have any tendencies toward addictions of any kind.

Please feel free to contact me at ***@****

[Desi]

Ultram-
I was prescribed Ultram for a migraine headache in 1999. It was the only medication my doctor would prescribe for me due to the addition problems and rebound headaches caused by such drugs as Vicodin or Tyl.#3. I didn't care as long as I got rid of the headache. I was graduating the following day and needed help. I took two and the headache was gone in two hours after almost eight hours of pain. Now, they did leave me feeling bad but the headache was gone. I moved several months later and another doctor continued to prescribe them for me to keep for my headaches. I take them when I have a headache, sometimes they work and other times they don't. I have taken them off and on for the past two years. I have never taken more than two in one day, however, I have taken one several days in a row for several weeks. Usually with no problems after stopping. I do realize that I don't take a large dose, but I do feel some withdrawal from them when I stop. I feel Ultram is a good medication, just like many of them on the market. We shouldn't blame the doctors or the manufactures...we have only ourselves to blame for abuse. I know when I get a prescription for any drug that there is a potential risk of addition. I have never had problems with drugs or alcohol but I know personally I could have problems. Any medication over the counter or prescription can become addictive or dependent.

[Desi]

Ultram-
I was prescribed Ultram for a migraine headache in 1999. It was the only medication my doctor would prescribe for me due to the addition problems and rebound headaches caused by such drugs as Vicodin or Tyl.#3. I didn't care as long as I got rid of the headache. I was graduating the following day and needed help. I took two and the headache was gone in two hours after almost eight hours of pain. Now, they did leave me feeling bad but the headache was gone. I moved several months later and another doctor continued to prescribe them for me to keep for my headaches. I take them when I have a headache, sometimes they work and other times they don't. I have taken them off and on for the past two years. I have never taken more than two in one day, however, I have taken one several days in a row for several weeks. Usually with no problems after stopping. I do realize that I don't take a large dose, but I do feel some withdrawal from them when I stop. I feel Ultram is a good medication, just like many of them on the market. We shouldn't blame the doctors or the manufactures...we have only ourselves to blame for abuse. I know when I get a prescription for any drug that there is a potential risk of addition. I have never had problems with drugs or alcohol but I know personally I could have problems. Any medication over the counter or prescription can become addictive or dependent.

[Thomas 2]

Hi,

I have battled depression since the age of 12 and I am now 35. Last year I tried Ultram for a headache and unexpectedly felt my depression at the time lift and disappear completely for the rest of the day. A year later and many more Ultram tabs later I firmly believe in it's anti-depressant properties ( research show's that it also works to inhibit the reuptake of noradrenaline and serotonin as well as stimulating the opiate receptors) .I am also aware of it's addictive potential being a doctor myself and underwent a trial withdrawal  3 months ago reducing the dose from 6 a day to 4  a day for 2 weeks then  2 a day for 2 weeks then 1 a day for 2 weeks before stopping altogether. This slow withdrawal is needed because this drug similar to many other drug types leading to a withdrawal syndrome if stopped in a cold-turkey fashion. SLOW withdrawal is the key if you really want to stop.

Cheers Tom

[cindi]

Thanks for the input and advice....will you keep posting here?  We would love to hear more from you...this is a great place to share alot of different things...Love to all                 cin

[TheProdigal2]

Sorry, I know this is off topic but I just want to let every one know after many unsuccesfull attempts to post a
NEW thread to this Forum I have decided to set up one. http://deadserious.planethosting.com/discuss
Please spread the word. I know we can continue to help and encourage one another.
If there is a forum topic any one would like covered just let me know.
Experiences with Oxycontin , Vicodin , etc..