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Ultram and hydrocodone
by jule1, Jun 14, 2001 12:00AM
Hi everyone I posted a question about two weeks ago but I had to put it in the answer section. I really need help I have been abusing Ultram and hydros for quite a while I think th e Ultram is the hardest I ran out the other day and felt horrible and did not sleep at all I had a seizure from taking too much about a month ago. You would think that would make me stop but so far it has not. I am feeling so guilty I know I am not the person I could be and the mother and wife I should be. I have been reading this forum every day for about 2 weeks and I really like what I read you all seem to care and be so honest about everything! I had called NA and they gave me two names to call one didn't live there and the other linw was disconnected. Thenk I called a rehab that did not know about Ultram. Then I called a counselor who also did not know so I really got frustrated. However sometimes I am so afraid to quit I do have a lot of back pain. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again Cindi and Thomas
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jbear, I have been taking Ultram for over one year now and it has been fairly good in relieving pain but many days the pain breaks through and I could take any amount of Ultram and it won't work. I was taking 10 50 mg tabs per day but now that I take 8-10 30 mg of plain codiene everyday I automatically have hardly taken any Ultram. I was taking them both at the same time but there was no need for the Ultram. Sometimes if the pain is bad I take 2-3 codiene tabs and 1-2 Ultrams. That seems to help. 3 Ibuprophen tabs with it works good too.
Yes, I had some withdrawal from the Ultram when I cut down before the codiene but not now. My pharmycist told me that 10 Ultram tabs 50 mg is over the daily toxic limit so I had cut it down to eight but that was not enough, but now I don't have to worry about it. No wonder you had seizures at 40 tabs!!!!!
Ultram lowers the seizure threshold anyway, so that was one problem I had to worry about. I have not had a seizure in over a week so the codiene must not do that.
Cindi, how is Florida doing? Here it is has been thunderstorming every afternoon, tyipcal of the rainy season. I love rain. My land youn asked about is in Tropical Gulf Acres on one of their man made lakes. It is in Charlotte County fairly close to Sarasota. Take care, I am tired and don't feel too good, I just took my meds I hope they work soon. Bye for now, I almost started on my Temporal Lobe Babbling Trend again.
luv atch,
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz
Wizard -- you are one cool dude. I'm still on the lookout for those flying monkeys! I wonder if they would make good pets? :)
Blessings to my forum pals, Milo
PS If You're into "Planet of the Apes" at all, you'll know where I got my handle!
SOLITUDE
IN SOLITUDE
MY SOUL ATTUNES
TO AN INFINITE HARMONY.
WHERE GOD'S PRESENCE
FLUTES THE SILENCE
CREATING A SYMPHONY.....................
WE ARE ALL MADE OF STAR STUFF
WE AND OUR HEIRS.
WEARE ALL MADE OF STAR STUFF
SHAPED BY OUR PRAYERS....................
SOLITUDE
IN SOLITUDE
MY SOUL ATTUNES
TO AN INFINITE HARMONY.
WHERE GOD'S PRESENCE
FLUTES THE SILENCE
CREATING A SYMPHONY.....................
WE ARE ALL MADE OF STAR STUFF
WE AND OUR HEIRS.
WEARE ALL MADE OF STAR STUFF
SHAPED BY OUR PRAYERS....................
SOLITUDE
IN SOLITUDE
MY SOUL ATTUNES
TO AN INFINITE HARMONY.
WHERE GOD'S PRESENCE
FLUTES THE SILENCE
CREATING A SYMPHONY.....................
WE ARE ALL MADE OF STAR STUFF
WE AND OUR HEIRS.
WEARE ALL MADE OF STAR STUFF
SHAPED BY OUR PRAYERS....................
SOLITUDE
IN SOLITUDE
MY SOUL ATTUNES
TO AN INFINITE HARMONY.
WHERE GOD'S PRESENCE
FLUTES THE SILENCE
CREATING A SYMPHONY.....................
WE ARE ALL MADE OF STAR STUFF
WE AND OUR HEIRS.
WEARE ALL MADE OF STAR STUFF
SHAPED BY OUR PRAYERS....................
God bless you Milo, I hope you have magical week end for sure.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard
Wiz
I'm actualy feeling better now than I have in a long, long time. Celexa has pretty much taken care of my OCD, and Wellbutrin, well, it's been a miracle drug in terms of restoring my energy, motivation, interest in life...Some day I'll have to tell you the whole story...is there an e-mail address you feel comfortable sharing?
And how are *you* doing these days? Caught sight of those flying monkeys yet? Let me say you make a great contribution to this forum, and I know people appreciate it.
Blessings to you & yours, Milo
from there I'll give you another address you can use. I'll be looking forward to your mail.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard
Blessings for a safe & happy journey, Milo
Cindi, I'm so jealous of you! I'd love to go to Florida right about now. Have a *great & safe* trip & tell us all about it when you return.
Bon voyage, Milo
Enjoy the seafood! -- MIlo
Brown-eyed Milo
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz
Thanks for asking ... I've been stabilized on three 10 mgs Valiums a day (sometimes I'm bad and I take four, but what the hell). My doc expects it t take the whole summer to get completely off the benzos. He and I both do not want to risk another seizure. I haven't started reducing my dosage yet, but I think come refill time around July 4th, he'll probably have me take a 10 mg in the morning, a 5 mg in the afternoon and another 10 mg in the evening for starters, then "titrate" things further down, slowly but surely..
It really is a lot more stable using Valium over Xanax, I never have even an inkling of pre-seizure feelings anymore.
For those trying to get off of benzos or who just ran out early, I can tell you that the main, serious symptoms of an impending benzo-withdrawal seizure are:
1. Numbness in your hands, in particular thumbs and forefingers
2. Tightness in your chest, and shallow breathing - that and waves of plain old anxiety.
3. My experience was that these symptoms went on for between two and three days before the seizure actually occurred.
4. I had some Soma, a muscle relaxant, and was hoping that it would at least relax me enough to avoid a seizure, but it did no good at all. I don't think there's any substitute when you're truly addicted to a benzo and have been cut off from your supply.
5. Whatever you do, if you find yourself in this position, don't ignore it. If you can't get your benzo of choice from your doctor, RUN, DON'T WALK to the nearest ER or urgent care walk-in. I seriously doubt if any doctor thus consulted would risk his or her career by denying you the benzos you need. Also, I'm pretty sure the pharmacy by itsel can legally give you a day's worth til your doc can be contacted. But don't wait till you're getting all the symptoms I just listed. I came within 15 minutes from having my last seizure behind the wheel of my car going down the Pacific Coast Highway at 65 MPH (!). My guardian angel was watching over me that day … of that I have no doubt, causing me to have the seizure at my desk in front of all my fellow writers. Nice huh?
I do have to watch the calendar and make sure I'm not running out just as the doc is taking off for the 4th of July. But his staff is great and have already been instructed by my doc to never let me run out of benzos, so I just have to keep track of dates and pill quantities, etc.
To anyone trying to taper down off of short acting benzos like Xanax or Ativan, I recommend you asking your doctor to switch you to good old long-acting Valium. I'm so much more stable on the stuff and it's gone a long way toward taking the fear of seizures from me. I'd had three in as many months, and I think I've had my limit. I'll tell you though, from talking to a few docs in person and on-line, very few of them really seem to understand how serious it is getting off this family of drugs. Too bad, too, because they help my back and relieve the tension I'm under like nothing else does.
NOT TO WORRY ...
With friends like you, milo, cin, rachel, Françoise, Karen, lea, angelica, J.B., Bright Light and (a thousand apologies) to all the rest of my good friends looking out after me, I know I'll make it through the summer and, miracles of miracles, perhaps celebrate my September 4th wedding anniversary (16 years!) completely off of everything. I won't kill myself if I can't get it all done by that date, and won't punish myself if I relapse with the pain meds (back pain is still a daily part of my life and gets pretty bad some days -- to the point where I'm not sure if I can make it to work [so far, no sick days taken] but it would be nice and a real miracle if I do pull it off. One thing you can't just shrug off is the basic need for the drugs in the first place. I won't live in constant, debilitating pain or fear of seizures just to able to claim absolute sobriety.
I just want to stop fearing seizures every morning of my life and do my work and help my forum friends -- words alone just aren't enough to tell you all how much your friendship has meant me.
Speaking for myself, you'll always get all I know how to give, whether you need hard info or just someone to listen and relate. My "door" is always open to all of you. Again, whomever I neglected to thank by name, it doesn't mean you're not in a special place I reserve in my heart for "the special ones ..."
P.S. There's still a lot more room in there for more guys (or gals) like you, my good friend, Wizard of the mystic. Live Way long and prosper BIG time, as the Surfer Vulcans would say ….
Your friend,
Thomas
Cin, What's this about kissing a largemouth? If your gonna fish the gulf if you can get a charter they usually provide all the right stuff AND take care of the dirty work (worms aren't gonna cut it) LOL Some very big fish there...you'll need something in the line of heavy tackle and rod.....You really have to be getting all jazzed up now :-) Oh yea, My other e-mail is still active and will be use what you like, I just thought the hot mail program looked cool to keep all my "Angel" friends in one place and since I'm personal friends with my internet provider(ISP) I thought the hotmail way would be more private in case they got a little too curious since I'm sure they have access if they wanted to snoop. But Hell I don't care, the hotmail makes it easier to get anywhere I am and it is not loaded to my hard drive. Feel Free to buzz my tower any way you all like. LOL You all have a fine "Cosmic wizard surfer dude evening" LOL
And congrats to you both on your anniversaries! I'm coming up on 28 years in mine. I think I got a keeper! Not throwing this one back for sure. LOL I love her so much it hurts...We met when I was 16 and she was 15 Can you believe it? We truly are like one now that I'm clean Praise the Lord.
Power & Magick 2 U All,
Peace & Light on us little addicts,
Wiz
I hope you make your deadline, and i think you have the right attitude! We're here for you!
I tried Ultram once, and it really made me feel very strange, kind of like floating, not for me! But then again, none of it is for me anyway, because my back pain just doesn't justify taking anything.
Good luck!!!!
lv Jenny
Your good friend as always,
Thomas
Thomas
All my best to you and your family,
Thomas
several years ago my primary care doc wrote me an rx for lorcet 10s. He also gave 3 or 4 cartons of ultram samples with these cute,
small cards of these long but small pills. the doc said that these
were non addictive and really worked. non addictive pain pills are
quit ellusive (sort of like the alchemist looking for the magick
stone that would turn common metal to gold). several weeks later i
tried it out. i took 4 of these long but small tabs. i didn't get
a buzz or any relief from my pain.i dismissed ultram as just more
bull-**** from pharm. industry. several weeks ago i saw a good friend really coming unglued and very definately going thru drug
withdrawals. this friend claimed to get plesently loaded on this
ultram suff, and then went a week or so of hurting real bad. Can't
explain why they affeced him so differently than me. i remember
about 25 years ago or so when talwin hit the market. seems i remember a doctor telling me they were addictive free, and good replacements for percodan. i took a 3 50 mgs and throwing them into
the old cooker & then shooting up. GOD it was awfull. some of my
friends at the time really got strung out on them. addiction is a
very strange thing.
this forum meas a lot to me. i want to thank all of you for helpping me get through a very rough period of my life. please
forgive my misspellings and incoherence. i'm all "trussed up"
in this horid cervical brace. i can't complain to much about my
brace after having a chat with a young lady in halo brace. met
her in my neuro surgeons office. tends to kill off the poor me's.
thanks to all of you
skipper
I'm so sorry that you are in such a state of uncomfortableness, we're all here for you it you just need to get it all out and scream out loud!!!!
I'm not up on your story, but know that i'm here to support and listen whenever you need it!
Your friend, Jenny
Thomas
if i tell you i'm an addict, that sums it up (every thing else
is just the details). also: i have "fragile ******* feelings"
(please remember this when i, without a shred of remorse stomp
all over your feelings).
i've spent the majority of my life feeling like an outsider-sort of like that song by the Hollies, Look thru any window.
my first sponser from a 12 step program told me "i'm going to love
you & there isn't a dam thing you can do about it". this is the way
i feel about everyone on this forum.
i would love to hear everyone's story & tell my own. i'll try not to turn it into a "pissing contest" but can't promise i won't as i can be a bit of a windbag & ******* too.
my keeshound has just made it clear it's time for him to take me on a walk.
Cindi:
a vacation- wow! i hope your expectations are realized. i'm using all my vacation leave from work for this awful surgery (poor me}.i actually feel real guilty about it because my wife has stood by me thru all this-no vacation for her either.
everyone please be careful
skipper
I have you're having fun despite all your troubles. You do what you must to make the trip comfortable for you, don't feel like a whimp, you have such wonderful strengths in so many other areas, we all have weaknesses; we're human. You have a very loving family, and remember their support for you is out of love, and they would do anything for you; you're a beautiful person.
So sorry about the darn car, isn't it always the way.
When you get to Florida, you just enjoy yourself, and make the best out of it all! You sit on that beach and gaze out onto the horizon (something I love), and you find some peace and enjoyment and try to relax and know that you a very loved!
Have a wonderful lunch with Brighty, and don't get sunburned!
I know your kiddies are going to have a blast, and that's what it's all about, having fun, forget the bad parts!!!!
Love your Florida Buddy, Jenny
I was incredibly shy during my younger years, and it was very painful dealing with life and other kids while growing up. I felt like an outsider too.
That's why i think i was drawn to alcohol, i could open up and i wasn't so shy anymore.
I think i can speak for us all, and we all have sensitive feelings; that's part of addiction. I don't think you can be a hardcore, nothing gets to you sort of person and be an addict. We just 'feel' more than others, and it gets us into trouble sometimes. But think of the benefits, us addicts get alittle more out of life then the rest i think. Sometimes more than be want, but try to focus on the positive.
Take things one step at a time, and try not to overload yourself with too many worries at once. The things we worry about tend not to even happen, and try to enjoy life for what it is; not easy.
Good luck to you and know that we're all here to listen anytime!!!
Lv Jenny
jennyfla -- I know I keep praising your writing, but once again you've said exactly what I was thinking! I grew up as an "outsider" too, am a bit of one now, actually, and sensitive, oh yes! Your statement that what we fear usually doesn't happen is so true -- I've observed it myself over & over -- one day I hope to learn the lesson!
Bless you both, Milo
just plain old Thomas, still hang'n in there
peace and healing to all
May you be at peace with yourself and heal, my new friend
Thomas
"The 5 Days of Milo" are now over -- the terror has gone, and each day will be better. Thank you again for thinking of me during this time, with all you are dealing with yourself. Like Wiz says, when we help each other, we loosen the "dragon's" claws from both our backs. -- Milo
[Thomas], I also had the same experience with Ultram. It killed pain great at first and then lost it's effectiveness. I still take it though.
I also have seizures on a fairly regular basis although I take 10 MG of Klonopin a day which helps control the seizures most of the time. I can not take the heavy anti-convulsants like Tegretol and Depakote. Those make me feel too ill, worse than the stinkin seizures!
Thank you Milo for your kind words.
Cindi, i would absoluately love to meet you, but with working full-time, and all these problems at home, it would be hard to get away long enough to make it over there. You're a good 3 hours away, and although i would love it, it would be difficult.
Waaaa, i seem to miss out on everything in life these days, can't seem to do anything just for me!!!! :(
I hope you understand.
Of course, if you could make it over to this coast, i would absoluately love to meet you and you are more than welcome to come say here, we have plenty of room.
Thank you so much for the invite, it means a lot to me!!!! :)
Lv Jenny
In fact, it wasn't till the internet and email that my writing skills really improved. I've always stumbled with finding the right words while composing letters, memos, etc. in my jobs. I'm an administrative assistant, and good writing skills are definately a big requirement!
I think my feeling so strongly about my feelings in regards to addiction, and feeling the pain so strongly that everyone expresses here, really helps me get the right words out. They are coming from my heart, and i just say what i feel; every single word is true and honest coming straight from my heart!
I wish i knew the answers, but, unfortuately, there are no easy answers. Best we can do is be here for eachother and try to hold eachother up when we feel we just need a little push or a shoulder to cry on!
This board helps me so much because i no longer feel so alone. My own battle is tough enough, but watching my husband go through this is ripping my heart to pieces. I want to run away as fast as i can from him because he makes my life such a living hell, but my ripped up, torn up heart won't let me.
I feel he would be thrown out to the dogs if i weren't here, and i've spent so much of life with him, i don't know what live would be without him. I was 18 when we first got together, and moved to florida when i was 20 (i'm now 38 -- that's large portion of my life).
I couldn't live with myself if i knew i left him in the dust and didn't support him and try everything in my power to help him find the strength to help himself.
It's just getting more and more difficult with each passing day, i feel like i am loosing my mind, and my soul in this battle. I know i could live with these drugs if i were away from him, and that makes it even harder knowing this. I numb and numb because i just can't handle the pain. There has to be a way, it's just a matter of time now, because things are moving forward even as i try to stand still and keep things together.
I do have the loving support of family up north, and they provide me with the strength i need to keep battling this life. Plus my kids are the best anyone could ever ask for, and they enable me to keep a grip on alittle bit of sanity anyway. I know i could go full-board and get myself even deeper at any moment, but it's them that keeps me somewhat sane and focused! PLus, i love myself, and i deserve every bit of hope that there is! I will not let this destroy me, i refuse.
My mom says "i have character", that she has never known anyone as strong as i am. I amaze her!!! But if she only knew the truth about, i wonder how she would feel. She fights her own battles; abused as a child, and with an alcoholic tendency herself. Plus, awful back pain that she experiences is just getting worse and worse, but she refuses to go the drug-route because she knows she is far too addictive, and that it would only create more problems for herself. I'm glad she realizes that, and if she only knew how true that statement really was, i love her to pieces and admire her strength and wisdom!!!!
Good luck to you, and you deserve a huge pat on the back, wow, day 5, you go Milo!!!!!! We are very proud, and keep fighting, you are an inspiration to us all!!!! You are worth every passing day of sobriety, and it will only get better and better.
I'm always here for support, so keep on moving forward!!!!!!
Lv Jenny
Power & Magick 2 U all,:-(,
Peace and Light be with you too,
Wiz
So, now that I feel better, The Cheese Wiz wants to know where the dickens are you? Fla.? swamp? alligators stomach? just kidding. God bless you and you know YOU are in my thoughts and prayers also Cin. Say hello to Doug for me. Keeping you in my heart as always.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Luv,
Wiz
Geez, I wish I could just be my own sponsor most of the time!
If nothing else, just do what I do and type out some real B.S. on this forum and read it back to yourself the next day. We really are the only ones that can heal ourselves in the end. Are you listening to yourself? J.B.
Love,
Angelica
Love YA
ANgelica
I am your disease
I am cunning, baffling, powerful and slick. You will never see me coming until i have you by the throat, grasping for your life. I am a disease that has been around since the beginning of time, you are just a beginner. You will think like all beginners think. That you can handle me, you are not that bad, maybe once in a while or that you are different. I will keep talking to you because you listen; after all i am a disease that tells you that you are not sick. I hate when you go to treatment, go to those stupid meetings, obtain a higher power and attend counseling. You fool! I am a very patient disease and will wait until youi stop treating me and then i will destroy you. Not only will i destroy you, i will also destroy your family and friends. I promise to take away your dreams. Your new dreams will be to stay high and wasted. You will feed me alcohol, heroin, cocaine, pills, pot and speed. I will teach you to lie, cheat and steal. Slowly you will realize that i am your best friend, lover and higher power. I will always be there when you are lonely and i will fill that empty feeling within. I will consume every cell in your body and bring about many new sufferings such as aids, liver, heart, pancreas, reproductive, skin and brain diseases. Most importantly, i will rule your mind; your every thought will be of me. I promise to be there when you get out of the hospital; i promise to be there when you get out of prison. I also promise to be there when you die. For now, let us have fun.
Yours forever,
The Disease of Addiction
Hope this isn't upsetting, they are very strong words. This is just a little reinforcement to help you know you two are on the right road. Don't look back, it's ugly, and you never want to go back there. Keep re-reading the posts, it will help a lot. I've re-read my posts the next day, and can't believe it was me who wrote those words. If i could only read and learn from what my healthy part of my brain is saying. Stomp that darn dragon or demon on the other shoulder saying 'just a little won't do anything'. I was starting to feel really good when i came back from vacation. I hadn't beaten it yet, but was starting to 'feel' a little bit again. Right now i feel like absoluate ****, and i could kick myself (if i could reach) for falling back and letting this dam disease gain some ground again.
Stay strong, and know that tomorrow is another day, and let this one pass and know that there is a brighter day ahead for your both tomorrow. So many things to 'feel', you don't want to miss it!!!!!
Good luck and keep the faith you two!!!!
Love from your (still in the dark) friend, Jenny
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light on us all,
Wizard
so sorry to hear your in the "bad" spot.
for what it's worth:
several years ago (before my neck problems) i read in the British
Journal of Addiction about a study 2 american reserchers were doing. if my memory serves me they (the researcher) were investigating what was labled as secondary abstence syndrome. it seems the body at regular intervals of 60 to 80 days after detox
will start cravings for drugs, especially opiates. i know this probably doesn't help much. In the days before oxy, when i was
clean for a number of years this happened to me. it started with a
repetitous dream about using heroin. same dream nite after nite. i
remember waking up in cold sweats. each day after such dreams everything i looked reminded me of big old spoon of black tar being
cooked down! no **** i thought i was going to have to use to make it go away. the dreams and desire went away when i started talkig
about them with some oter people trying to find recovery.
hang in there!
skipper
Are you getting the T-storms over on that side too, we had a whopper this afternoon, it was great!
You take care, and don't get sunburned!!!!
Lv Jenny
I hope today was a better day for you, just take it one day at a time, the feelings will pass!
I'm glad that i was able to help you a little with my post, and at least, if i'm not doing very much for myself, hopefully, i am helping some of my friends here with their ongoing battle with addiction!
I will continue to help, i'm always here, and maybe i will begin to listen to my own words one of these days and get strong and beat this thing once and for all!
Thank you again, you made me smile tonight. It's been a rough day, and i exhausted, so this was a nice ending to a long, hard day!
Lv Jenny
More about what i was say in my post to you yesterday. it seems the 2 resechers who discovered secondary abstinence syndrome were funded by the hazelden foundation (you know the suposed best treatment center in the world, that hazeden) this suprisese me because so much "bad science" in the field of addiciction has been
associated with this foundation. anyway this praticular study also
discovered a suprisesing rise in endorphins right before a relapse.
i would have thought it would be the opposite. guess this whole pain/addiction issue is about striking some sort of balence. anyhow
hang in there,"trudge the road to happy destiny." My own detox expierment isn't going as well. My wife was quite unhappy with me
taking the hydro codone. she hates the way i act on it. to her (my
wife) i'm no where near as obnoxious as when i take oxy. figure that one out.(i thought i was a rearl sweatheart on either.) such a strange condition (disease) we are afflected with. i must end this post as my fingers feel as if they are made out of wood. the jones
on this oxy contin stuff is almost as bad morphine or heroine. i may have to take some oxy tomarrow as i have to go to the neuro surgeons office to have the progress of my spinal fussion checked. hope all the rest of you are doing well!
Thanks for the giggle!
Lv Jenny
Power & Magick 2U all,
Wiz
What in the world are ya doing over there...??? Having a blast, I guess. Have one on me, while your there. I'm ready to get outta dodge. Getting a little cabin fever. How's the beaches? Trying to get a pool right now, thats about as close to the water as im gonna get. I'm going to Palm Beach in August, but I won't have access to a computer.....oh, man. Wish we coulda been down there at the same time. Did you meet w/ Brighty yet?? Well, keep us posted, and don't do anything I wouldn't do.....Be careful w/ those DUDS??? lmao
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light on Florida!
Cheese Wiz
Angelica
To you and all my friends here, I may not get to read all the threads, but your all in my prayers everyday and night. You have been such a blessing to me. I have faith my daughter will be alright because there are people like yourselves, that will share your pain to help someone else with theirs. Thank you all.
love, Kerrie
As I wipe my tears of joy from my eyes right now Kerrie, I want to bid you a very good evening.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light on us all,
luv, Wizard