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Unconditional love..........
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Unconditional love..........

Beachtowel, I read your post referencing unconditional love and your mom. It made me cry and push back all the hurt and pain I won't, can't let myself feel because I am a Mom of an addict desperately looking for answers and desperately wanting to learn how to cope/deal with the situation. I will copy my post to you under the other question:

As a Mom of an addict who is now in serious trouble with the law I do not know how unconditional my love can be at this point. Up until now it has been HUGE but someone forged and cashed checks written out to my daughter from her employer's business account. I have seen the front & back copy of the first check and based on my knowledge of her handwriting, the evidence is pretty damaging. She and he husband were kicked out of my sister's house because we founf syringes, blackened tin foil, etc. I know she is still going to the methadone clinic because when I called and asked if her number was still dosing, she called me that same morning in a beligerent way and asked if I called the clinic, I said yes I had called and did so because I love you. The husband is most likely the one who relapsed since he could do nothing all day, not even take care of the kids. So, now she is fired from her job, moving from one flea bag motel to another with her husband & 3 kids. I want the garandchildren safe. It baffels me that she would do such a stupid thing just for $150 and $200.

This really hurts that she would choose her addicted husband over the children's welfare when her boss said that if she had left him and owned up to what was going on she wouldn't press charges, but nope, she chose to stand by her man.

So Beach, How far does a Mom take the unconditional love????
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Avatar_m_tn
Welcome to the forum Mom,

First of all I am sorry that your daughter and her husband are causing you enough mental anguish to watch your hair turn gray.............

One thing I did not include about my Mom and her unconditional love is that when I was in trouble with the law over the years she always told me to stand up like a man and deal with it and what ever the consequences.......
If I did go to jail then her unconditional love would kick in with frequent letters and commissary money so that I would have enough to eat and some extra for coffee and maybe a honey bun or two..

I have to post to your last paragraph:
This really hurts that she would choose her addicted husband over the children's welfare when her boss said that if she had left him and owned up to what was going on she wouldn't press charges, but nope, she chose to stand by her man.

Mom she no longer has choices when your hooked on drugs and in full blown addiction your addiction makes the choices for you..........
The addiction alters the brain in some thought process and emotional responses a great deal.......
Addiction is one of the strongest diseases in the world and until we all get on the same page with that addiction will continue to grow and destroy famililies all over the world........

I have to get ready and go to my homegroup as a GSR I have to attend this meeting..........
I will continue with this post when I get back I promise.....
be back in a couple of hours.........
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Avatar_f_tn
you have finally said something that made some sense. I'm surprised you didn't call her daughter a miserable unappreciative child though.....but you finally said something useful. That is the way to approach things and I'm glad to see it.
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Avatar_m_tn
The difference is this person is asking for help to recovery and not just worried about there next script or if the police are going to knock at her door.......
How about this scenario what if her husband is at work and she is home with her kids and the police show up with a warrent for her arrest......
They arrest her what happens to her kids.........
Her husband is working his *** off for his family when his wife lies, and steals behind his back hiding her addiction how do you think he will feel when he gets a phone call from jail and finds out Child protective services have his kids and his wife is locked up for illegal possession of narcotics by fraud....

I won't enable an addict nor would I allow an addict to hurt my family I would protect them at all costs........
All I was trying to do was get open her eyes and that she is in trouble and not just by the law but herself and she is also putting her family at great risk........

Sorry if our opinions are so different mine are based on a lot of experience and now formal education as well.........

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Avatar_m_tn
So Beach, How far does a Mom take the unconditional love????

It stops when it hurts members of the family and then tough love must kick in........
Both of them can't hear you right now Heroin and Methadone have all there attention........
I would concentrate on the kids besides yourself they are the true victims of their addiction and must be protected.........
Have you contacted Child Protective Services?
She is your daughter I understand but probably jail is the best thing that could happen........
It would keep her away from the dope and she will get clean.......
Jail is a very bad place to W/D from Heroin and or Methadone those are two of the big boys
and the W/Ds will be hard.........
If you have the needles and pieces of tin foil save them you will have to prove that there is probable cause and something more than just your word what there doing is endangering the kids......
The amazing thing is your accusations won't be enough you will have to have some evidence......

These kids should not be among your daughter and her husband that is what I would worry about....
and what I would concentrate on nothing you can say or do will reach or effect your daughter she is gone and lost in the insanity of addiction......

Any other questions that you have please don't hesitate to ask........
Please don't feel like your a bad mother for wanting to protect the kids from your daughter and her husband..........and get them the h e l l out of there........
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Avatar_f_tn
Jesus Christ...are you now a psychic as well? How in the holy hell did you come up with that whole scenario of what is going to happen? What right do you have to say anything about what is going to happen to one's family, regardless of how likely it may be? How dare you tell her to contact social services? Cause what business is it of yours? Just cause you have been using for a long *** time doesn't mean you have an ounce of experience on sobriety what-so-ever. you have 20 months..thats all! It seems like nothing for someone who has so much **** coming out of their *** about addiction. If she wants to put her family at risk, so be it. You have no idea how ridiculous you sound when you go on and on about knowing exactly what is going to happen. I'm seriously starting to doubt if you goto N/A at all...
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Avatar_m_tn
No I am not psychic but if you would of read all my posts you would no that I have an Associates degree in Social Work and now going to U of D Mercy College my major is Addiction Studies to get my CAC

I don't like working in the Social Work field because you have to deal with young children I would rather work with adults.......and would rather work with adults.......

So you in your opinion you would leave these children living among junkies shooting up Heroin and leaving needles laying around and black burned tin foil.........

These are innocent kids living in and out of cars and fee bag motels maybe your way of parenting this is acceptable but not in my world.........

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Avatar_f_tn
most foster homes are no better...talking from experience...i think i would rather be living in a world of **** with my parents then living in a world of **** from strangers, but if the family would take the kids that would be better...i wouldnt want cps involved with my grandchildren...
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Avatar_m_tn
I now will now speak with the emotion of my own personality in my opinion her daughter and husband should be arrested for child endangerment and thrown in Jail for at least a year.........
If I was a judge and they were in front of me that would become there reality.......then I would court order them into a one year inpatient drug rehab facility.......
I would also order the kids be taken away from them because they are unfit parents..........

I was answering a post that was directed to me if I they lived in Michigan near me I would personally get involved in this ladies case and help her get those kids and get them safe.........
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Avatar_m_tn
wait the whole thing is a bad situation I would hope that the grandmother would get the kids....she sounds very concerned about there well being and I also agree I would not want to put the kids into the system...........
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Avatar_n_tn
So, I see that you have now taken the position of the forum pot stirrer.

What I would like to know is this:  Why does Beachtowel intimidate you so much?  Could it be that he is right and your addict brain is in full addiction, unable to accept the truth about addiction.   You continuously ask him about judging others, but isn't that what you are doing to him?

Have you noticed that you are in this battle alone? Does that tell you anything?  I noticed that vicaddict and LIZZIE LOU also told her to take the children, and you did not jump their case.

So what?   Why the bone for Beachtowel?
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Avatar_m_tn
You know I have disagreed with you but have never attacked you personally.....because I am not taking your comments personally........
I have as you mentioned 20 months of clean time I work full time and go to school two classes a week....I am the GSR of my N/A homegroup, I volunteer at the MSO headquarters on the N/A helpline and I also recently started speaking at Harbor Lite inpatient drug rehab in Mt. Clemens twice a week to many addicts......
I agree 20 months is not a long time in Sobriety that is about the only thing I agree with you have ever said to me.......but many of the recovering addicts in N/A told me to get involved in Service Work and stay busy in your recovery.........my plate is pretty full but I feel great physically and emotionally and want to help people in addiction........
I am also not afraid to speak the truth and am not offended by anyones comments here towards me why are you so offended.....
Just a guess but I feel your using and it is your addiction that is pissed at me..........
I wish instead of always following me around here on the forum I would enjoy reading some of your posts responding to others looking for answers and your experiences..........
I have never directed any derogatory statements towards you why are you so offended by my posts towards others.......
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Avatar_f_tn
Beachtowell, wait2long,vicoaddict,

Thank you. You have all been on board with my thinking. Two222's attacks, after reading all the above posts, resemble addict thinking and defensiveness, although, I do learn much from you Two222. I am soooooo tired of all the lies and twists and turns that my daughter has presented to me. By reading th addiction fourum posts I have begun to be able to recognise more of the addict behaviororial thinking and have a better ability to distinguish reality from addict fiction, subterfuge, change the subject,  point the finger at someonelse .. to get the heat off me, that is instinctive for an aaddict and their survival. Two222 I am not rejecting you but based upon the consensus of numbers, and what has been going on in my mind, getting the kids out of thert hell and into a stable environment is the MOST important thing RIGHT NOW. How I can accomplish that, I don't know. The legal system sucks and my daughter and her husband are far too entrenched in addict thinking/behavior to care about their children. I WIILL DO MY BEST to save them as they are innocents and the parents know well what they are doing.

THIS IS TRUE HELL,  WHEN REAL INNOCENTS, CHILDREN, ARE FORCED INTO A WORLD THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER - AND THE ONLY WAY TO ACTUALLY HELP THEM IS TO SUBJECT THEM TO MORE HELL BY DENYING  THEIR ADDICT PARENTS  MONEY, HOUSING, WHATEVER THEY ASKING FOR AT THE MOMENT  BY THE USING  THEIR LAST RESOURSE - THE KIDS-  AS PAWNS SO THAT THE PARENTS CAN REMAIN  ADDICTS, NEVER CHANGING THEIR BEHAVIOR AND USING THE KIDS TO GET WHAT THEY WANT. THIS IS HELL TO DEAL WITH. ALL I WANT IS TO TRY TO HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF THIS ADDICT THINKING/BEHAVIOR SO I CAN HELP THEM ALL, NOT JUST THE KIDS...... BUT RIGHT NOW THE KIDS  ARE THE MOST AT RISK..... THEY ARE INNOCENTS.... GET A GRIP AND IF ANYONE CAN ELABORATE ENOUGH TO OFFER SOME HELP. thanks.
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Avatar_f_tn
I agree, both parents need to be arrested and spend some time detoxing, getting clean, rehab for at least a year. I feel so defeated at every turn. Let go and let love? I guess the most frustrating is the legal system, so disillusioned in thinking they are there to protect. Who? So far, certainly not the innocents. 3 children -  20 months, 5 years and 7 years old.................... the best I could do was to give the 7 year old a chance of normalcy in sending her to camp for 4 weeks this summer. I hope she remembers it and says to herself, this is the way it is supposed to be, I will never be like my parents. Peace
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Avatar_m_tn
Ok I got to defend Two222 here.  Beachtowels post wouldn't be so annoying if he didn't come off with negativity all the time and like he knows a full situation about someones life by a little thread they wrote.  Beachtowel you judge people and situations way to quickly.  I know you think your stand up guy because you been through a little bit of s**t and went to jail and so on but I think the real case with you is that you want credit.  You keep mentioning your degree like that makes you the end all be all on this forum.  I think the problem is that you want to be some sort of leader or father figure and the only thing that you can act like your the big father figure is recovery places where most of the people are in a state where they are looking for any advice.  Its like you turned your addiction to drugs to an addiction to giving advice.  I think you like giving advice and THINKING you been through it all and that your are some sort of recovery leader because you have low self esteem and need that attention.  I actually think it is kind of funny.  Really man come on do something else besides giving advice all the time.   Have you ever thought that maybe not everything you say is that important.  Like give it a rest sometimes.  I'm not even trying to diss you but I can't imagine people you are trying to help even want to listen to your advice sometimes.  Good for you that your proud of your degree and a lot of things you beat in life but relax a little you will have more of an impact if you give advice a little less.  
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186166_tn?1385262982
i almost hate to reply to your comment because i really want this attack to stop...but i feel i have to.

you have no idea what michael has been through...none.   i do!!!!!

two years ago...this man had no life...no future...nothing.  he was not some executive, addicted to pain pills...taking his 10-15 pills aday...trying to cop a high...get a little energy.  beachtowel was a hard core addict...and i mean hard core in the worst way.   you cannot even imagine what he has been through...what he has lived...what he has done to himself.  the last 37 years of his life has been lost...not 3 years...not 7 years...37 (thirty seven) years.  that is 10 years longer than you have even been alive.  

two years ago...no one...not him...not his family...even thought that michael would even be alive today.  he was killing himself...and at a rather fast pace...and as a matter of fact, he almost killed himself many times.  he had nothing to live for...and his addictions were controlling his every thought...his every move.  he was in a very deep hole...and was not even attempting to crawl and scratch his way out.   he couldn't...he was in full blown addiction.

two years ago...michael never even dreamed that on this day...he would be clean and sober.  he never thought that he would attend college.   hell...he didn't even think he would be alive...or even cared at that point.

two years ago...michael begin to live.   thank God that the judge decided to force him into rehab.   thank God that someone took a special interest in him there.  thank God that something clicked inside his head...that a light came on.  thank God that he IS alive.

have you ever slept with the devil?  have you ever lived on the streets?  have you ever been so desperate to get drugs that you would do anything to achieve that goal?  

when i saw that you were only 26 years old...i then knew that there was no way possible for you to truly understand the depth of this man.  he has accomplished more in the last two years of his life. than most ppl have spent a life time trying to do.   is he proud?   DAMN BETCHA...and i am proud of him too.  he is living life for the first time...and he is clean and sober.   michael works hard...every day of his life to remain clean and sober.   he not only lends his knowledge and advice here...but he is a speaker to many different programs.  michael's goal here...is not to show you how to become clean...but to show you how to become clean and sober.   stopping drugs and going through w/d's is the easy part of recovery...but learning the skills to remain clean...to live sober...now that takes some work.  this man is dedicating his life to helping others...the same way that special someone helped him.  

in closing...let me say that before you judge michael...you need to have walked in his shoes...lived his life...slept with the devil.   this may very well be the same man that saves your life one day.   no matter what you have to say to him...or about him...he will still be there for you.   why?   because he knows that you are an addict.

kim  
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Avatar_m_tn
LOL your hilarious.  Have I ever lived on the street?  umm yeah.  Have I been through hell yeah?  This guy acts like he has been through the most evil s**t he is not the only one.  Anybody who knows my story knows I went at the streets hard.  You don't get it.  I was a orphan was locked up as a juvenile.  S**t when I was detoxing I was sleeping with a bulletproof vest and a shotgun and a machine gun because I owed street dudes 70grand.  Three people I know have been murdered in the last year.  One they kidnapped his mom for ransom money.  I was homeless at 19 I have no family and had to make my ends doing stuff that you would never understand.  What I been through is not the point, I'm just showing you that I been to hell but I still try to show more respect then beachtowel shows.  A lot of people don't like it.  But before you go and say what have you been through maybe you should understand that I have probably been through more then you will ever know.
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Avatar_m_tn
As always you missed the point........
Nobody is saying negative things towards you.........
Never have I shared war stories that is not important..........
Nobody is saying that you haven't suffered or lived in very tough situations........

Your missing the point.........
Your anger is stopping you from seeing the whole picture.......
You say many people here don't like me and are pissed at me really........
Look at the posts to me recently in my opinion many people have said some very nice personal
things to me and many are even defending my posts...........
You and 222 seem to be mad at the world and nobody will ever understand your pain......

To fight depression and triggers cravings and fight for my recovery I talk of N/A and doing a lot of service work I speak of going to college I speak of rehabs but you take this as I am putting you down or that I am pounding my own chest to put myself above others your thinking and logic is way off base.....
I'm sorry that my positive accomplishments over the past two years somehow offends you but I am proud of the man that I am becoming and I will not apologize to you or anybody else here for that.....

I feel great how about you?

I feel this way because of all the hard work I am putting into my recovery.........
This year when I recieve my CAC at the University of Detroit Mercy my mom will be there god willing and again I will feel a sense of pride am I suppose to feel bad about something in your opinion......
I'm sorry you have no family that is a very tough thing I will be so proud to have my Mom see me with yet another positive accomplishment after decades of bringing nothing but mental anguish and tears to her face what is wrong with that ????

I'm sure you will find many ways to bash this post too.........
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Avatar_n_tn
I pray that God will heal you from all the damage and pain caused to you from your past.
Have you read the book "Battlefield of the Mind". By Joyce Meyers? PLEASE READ This book changed my life!!

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Avatar_m_tn
Listen dude you just get very negative sometimes and I just don't agree with it.  I'm not even responding to you in the last post it was mostly directed to her.  Honestly I think you just come off with a negative way sometimes and I know some people see it that way and you come off with a I know all type of attitude.  I just think you could reach people in a better way if you relaxed on that.  I don't care if people backed up your posts that must mean your right now?  Come on man you have to be able to see that you are negative sometimes.  I think you confuse negativity with honesty.
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Avatar_m_tn
My posts are quite different when I am talking to the addict or the person........in my posts if you do truly read them you can see the difference.......
I am much softer with the person but I will go after the addict!

But I do hear what your saying..........
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Avatar_f_tn
no offense, but just about everything you said in your post applies to every addict i have ever known...including myself....sorry nothing different there...we are and were all in the same boat at one time or another....and i think thats what all this is about...        TO ALL..we all need to be positive...and give positive advice to helplessparent..she is hurting and doesnt need to hear OUR ****.  i think we need to take the arguing to another thread so she doesnt have to deal with it..           helplessparent, i have 3 boys, if any of them was to fall into the hole of addiction, i would do ALL that i could to help them out...and i mean if i had to take ALL of them into my house to not only help my grandchildren...but to help my son...and if that meant i had to accept his girlfriend into my home in order to not lose my son...then i would...my son would be just as important to me as my grandchildren....then you could offer some type of intervention or something,,,you would know where your child is AND  grandchildren also would benefit.   i am not saying THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO,i dont even know if its the right thing to do...BUT, i am simply stateing what i would do...i wouldnt want to lose my son OR my grandchildren, and you could be at ease knowing where they are, what they are doing, etc.....   but i would work on them on a daily basis about getting help, either both at the same time, or 1 at a time.  my husband and i had to do it 1 at a time...everytime we tried to get clean AT THE SAME TIME, WE FAILED MISERABLY...WE HAVE BOTH BEEN OFF OUR DRUG OF CHOICE SINCE SEPT 26, 2006,and now i have begun phase 2 of our plan,  that is the only way we could make it, as we had no outside help...no methadone clinics around here...nothing,    so i dont know if any of this helped, but i just thought i would tell you how it might be on the other side of the bridge....
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Avatar_f_tn
I started this thread asking someone who knows what my daughter & husband are going through. A question based upon reading his posts  I felt he had enough depth, experience and presence of mind to answer my question - Please stop attacking this person. Or are you offended I didn't address the question to all of you. The question was based upon his post regarding unconditional love and his Mom. I am a Mom and wanted to hear it from his perspective. This has gone far enough.
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Avatar_f_tn
good lord Beach..you don't listen just as much as you accuse others of not listening. I guess you are the only one who has the right to freedom of speech here."crowns you King of the Forums"
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Avatar_f_tn
i wasnt fighting...just simply responding to the post that was addressed to me (along with others), did you even read it...
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Avatar_f_tn
i just dont think i could throw my child into jail to detox or any  detox unless that is what she wanted...when i as an addict and had the same problem, that would make me a hypocrite...there are other options to help your daughter... without going to such drastic measures...
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Avatar_f_tn
agreed
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Avatar_f_tn
At this point, there are few options available. I spent my inheritance during her teen years with counseling, drug/rehab programs, etc.. they worked for a while but when she married her husband after a few years it was all downhill. He was addicted to prescription pain meds - we had to lock up all meds whenever they would come over or they would be gone. That esclated to having to hide our wallets, credit cards, purse and any thing that could be pawned easily. In and out of jobs, always getting evicted from where they live, lies, deceit, thefts.Heroin is their drug of choice althought they did love crack and grass earlier on. She was arrested for posession of heroin and had to detox in jail as I could not trust her to stick around and show up for a court date if I posted bail. She still wanted drugs after 7 days in jail and in order to remove felony posession from her record agreed to do a drug class for 18 weeks, and placed herself in the methadone program. She has to pass urine tests for both the drug class & methdone clinic. You name it, it has been done. When they finally came to live with my sister they were both going to the methadone clinic however based upon the husbands symptoms and the drug parapahnalia we found someone relapsed and my sister kicked them out too. They also had to hide everything due to petty thefts. The real klinker was when her boss called me and asked for our fax number because she said it was incrediable - there, plain as day and in my daughter's handwriting was a forged check to her cashed at the pawn shop where she is well known. There has been 2 of these checks now to date. I know for a fact that my daughter was clean because the police checked her drug tests at the the class which have all been negative so we can only assume she is needing the money to pay for the husbands drug habbit. Her boss even gave her a chance to come clean to tell her what transpired but she has denied it completely so now there will be charges of forgery, blurglury and theft coming down as soon as the DA's office prepares the case. So, no, I do not think there is going to be a different way than jail for her to detox off methadone at this point. She has been on 80 to 110 per day and from what I have read this is not going too be a good thing. I do fear for the grandchildren and CPS will not get involved until she has the warrant for her arrest and then it will be tricky to find them. I wish it could have been different. I have looked long and hard at what my part has been in this scenario as an enabler. The past few years they have used their children as pawns to manipulate money for rent, food etc... NO MORE was the familys stance now except to house them and try to get them back on track, but as you all know trying to teach an addict anything is pretty darn difficult, if not impossible unless the addict has made a real decision within themself to change. Finding the syringes and then the check forgery was the last straw for us. Now I have to wait until they are arrested and CPS will then get involved and help us take the children in. The parents are truly now on their own. We will take the children when we can and hope that we can help repair any damage that may be done. I asked Beachtowell about unconditional love because as you can see, mine is stretched pretty thin and I do not know how to support my daughter anymore other than saying you are on your own and that really, really hurts because one just can't turn love on and off like a faucet.    
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Avatar_m_tn


08/18/07
  good lord Beach..you don't listen just as much as you accuse others of not listening. I guess you are the only one who has the right to freedom of speech here."crowns you King of the Forums"  

This statement is so ridiculous and imature I'm not sure what to say........
She came to me because of the hundreds of posts I have made here and my experience that she has gained from my posts........who are you to question what I say or do not say on this forum....if you have a problem with me or things I say here you can cut and paste my comments and send them into the forum and have them address me personally............

As far as status on this forum is the same as yours and I have never spoke of myself better than anyone else if you can find those words from me cut and paste it and post it......I think your just jealous and your animosity towards me is boring...........
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Avatar_m_tn
helplessparent

I'm glad you came to me for help I am here for you......
Don't worry about a couple of insignificant people who don't like what I have to say.....addicts in denial want to bring down others in there own misery let them drown in it..........
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Avatar_f_tn
Thank you for being there.
Even though my daughter is on methadone, based upon her actions she is not dealing with her addiction. She can't even begin to be honest to herself. Her denial is huge and I believe it stems from the fact she knows all the horrible things she has done and to admidt them to herself, let alone others is too painful to face. She has continually not taken advice from conselors, therapists and people in NA regarding her relationship with her husband. She is in so much denial about how it is affecting their kids. It seems she just goes through the motions to keep everyone off her back and just does whatever she wants, like a defiant teenager. My husband and I just do what we can whenever we are able to interact with the kids and hopefully soon the legal system will help us get them safe. For now we just wait and pray.

Might I ask, how is your Mom today? I would think she is pretty darn proud to have her son back!!  
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Avatar_f_tn
I take what I need and leave the rest alone. Some addicts use drugs to shut off their feelings and to basically check out of life. Well, having to deal with addicts is demanding that I shut off my feelings too, for them - the addict and all they bring to the table. I have to cut em off, and the only way I know how to do that is to never again think about them, pretend I don't have a daughter or grandkids, they don't exhist. I am in the process of working this out within myself. Love is like addiction. So there you go.
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Avatar_m_tn
My mom is doing great she has a few health issues but she is hanging tough........

I do everything I can for her right now I owe her everything.......

My goal is to get my CAC certificate this year and to have her in the audiance to see me recieve it...

I think more than anything she would be happy just to know that I am on the right track and she doesnt' have to worry about me......she will know that I am focused and will do good in my life.....
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Avatar_n_tn
Ya know, they say haters are really just jealous...... so there ya go. You just keep on doin what ya do cause thats how YOU roll!!   :)  LOL!!!   If you knew me on a personal level you'd be loling too!! i always say ....thats how I roll.... You are awesome and I personally would like to thank you for all of you knowledge and guidance.      Thank You.  :)    Sarah
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Avatar_f_tn
this is the last i will say and I'll leave it at that...theres not a single molecule of anything about you to be jealous of. So that right there shows your arrogance. And if you are so bored why respond? I'll say what i said on another post. The issue is dead. All i ask is that if I post for some advice or support I'd rather you not give you "expertise" at all cause it won't help anyway. Help everyone else all you want...have fun since it's all you have to do anyway.
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Avatar_m_tn
Wow........King Beachtowel I like that .......

Hey Prettyls  check out that name 222 gave me......thats how I roll baby...........
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Avatar_f_tn
glad you liked it! Figured it would appeal to middle-age sense of humor. Your so hip!
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Avatar_m_tn
Loved it.........
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do you think things would be different with your daughter and grandchildren if husband was out of the picture?   would she listen to you then? and would she MAYBE be a happier/better person without him?  i guess what i am trying to say is would she try to change her life around if he wasnt there to in a sense "bring her down?"  do you think he may be abusive to her in any way?   i kind of went through something similar (not as severe) but with drinking i had turned into a pretty good alcoholic, because my boyfriend was at the time (i was younger too)  but when he was gone i was able to get back on my feet.....and turn my life around AGAIN...  just a thought
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Yes. We know she would be different and she is different when he isn't around. We know he is abusive too. We have had many discussions on the subject and she refuses to leave him. This last fiasco with the checks from her work we are pretty certain it was him pressuring her to get money for his habit. Even her boss believes this as she had overheard many a conversations she had with him at work. Yet, she still does nothing. Believe me, we have all tried to help her see the light on this matter and now it has most likely become a matter of not wanting to do what other say and doing what she believes is making her own decisions........ she has always been extreemly independent from day one and this is her showing the world she will do it her way. I have dreamed this man would just dissappear or die of an overdose and felt bad that I don't even feel bad thinking like that, he is that horrible.  So, the answer to your question is yes.
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just a thought"  but i was in a very abusive relationship years ago...of course being young and dumb,  (i was only 18 with a handicapped baby) and everytime he beat me, i never did anything about it thinking he would change...well eventually the police got sick of the neighbors calling them about my boyfriend and the police put a restraining order on him to keep  him away from me and my son...because i refused to...i no longer had any say in it because he just wasnt going to stop...so...just wondering if police have been involved with domestic violence with your daughter and her boyfriend...if so maybe that could work to your advantage somehow?   i am really not sure what to tell you,  i am just trying to give you different ways you may be able to approach this, like use his domestic violence against him in getting the kids and/or daughter away from him... just a thought...
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To our knowledge there have never been any reports of violence, domestic or otherwise, against the husband. Believe me, if we could, we would use anything. I am afraid it has reached the point of no return and it is awaiting game, hoping for the best for the grandkids and then the parents.

I am sick to my stomach knowing how powerless I am in this situation, as they say, let go and let God..........

I am in the process of letting go for my own sanity as well as my husbands.

Thank you for all your concern. The best to all of you who have been reading.
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I believe your concern should be the safety of the children,your daughter and her husband have made their choice. As far as jail goes,,where do you think your daughter would be safer, in jail or where shes at ?Sounds like shes gonna end up there anyway and even just 7 days clean in jail is better then 7 days out and using, hang in there,listen to these people and gl
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well if i think of anymore suggestions or ANYTHING that may be helpful i will post it for you...so sorry and i hope everything turns around for your daughter and children, in the meantime, keep your chin up and hope the wait for help is just around the corner...best wishes
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what if you tell the police that he is using and maybe he will get busted?  just another thought...
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The police know about them and which car they drive, you have no idea how many tickets he has - his liscense is suspended. They wouldn't bust him because they gave us the syringes volentarily!!! Can you believe that one? .... bad dreams all night about looking for the kids and could only find the two girs in my dream, not the 5 yr old autistic boy. Nightmares.... I keep searching  because I know there is always HOPE. The wait continues
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I am sooo sorry,i wish there was something i could do?!  i guess your right its kind of a wait and see what happens game, the anxiety of it all must be so overwhelming...have you thought about counseling for you?  maybe they would have some ideas, not only ways for you to deaL with situation at hand,  but they might have some resources we are unfamiliar with to also help daughter/grandchildren???  just another thought, if i happen to think of anything else that MIGHT be of use to you, i will post it...again i am sorry for your situation and hope there is change for you just around the bend...peace&love
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I wonder how your daughter might respond to your asking her if you can keep the kids for a while, in a "until you get your **** together" time frame.  Offer this using that unconditional love I've seen you guys talk about here.....They are her kids.  My wife grew up with her sister in an orphanage, and it was a much better home than if their mother had not abandoned them and 4 brothers.

You don't want these kids in the system.   The decision seems to have been made that jail is what they need.  That may be very true.  But that decision is for the court to make.  You can at least try to get the kids like I stated above.  Who knows maybe your daughter will respond to the unconditional love in a positive way.  Maybe its stupid and you already know what would happen.  Well offer it anyway, you may be surprised.  
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The reason you don't want the kids in the system are multiple.  I didn't mention above, but my wife suffered sexual abuse in more than on temporay foster home, while at this orphanage.  She was left there at 5.  Her sister was 4........

If you do this wrong your daughters kids could end up in a worse situation than they are in now.  I don't mean to understate how bad it is to be living with parents who are using needles.  There is no worse addiction, and they definitely do need help.  I am just butting in a little to see if a change in tact might have a positive effect asking your daughter for the kids in a loving caring way, not calling her a junkie, or yelling at her (not that you would, but some would).  Please get the kids with her permission if you can, becuase there is no guarantee that a judge will put them in your hands.  It's likely yes, but no guarantee.  Maybe you even need a lawyer to tell you how to start, but "ask" you rdaughter first.
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Thankyou for your response and concern. Having the children go into the foster care system  has been a fear that I have had for quite sometime. The horror stories for childeren in foster care are numerous and study upon study has shown that children do better staying with their parents no matter how bad the parents are - most recent results was from tracking some 1,500 foster/not put into foster care children over the past 20 years and where they are today. Results, the ones that actually stayed with less than par parents did better than the ones that were put intoo foster care.

Believe me, I have looked hard at this situation from many angles and the reason it has gotten to this extreem is because I believed they would still be better off with the parents, of course it hadn't reached these porportions until these last few months. One several occasions I offered to take the kids so the parwent could go and do what they had to do - rehab - each time my daughter refused. The closest I got was to have the 7 yr old last school year from Jan - June so she could actually go to school since the parents couldn't get her there ontime if at all. Then as soonas school ws out I had to give her back, and at that point they both were still going to the methadone clinic so I couldn't contest it. Right now, my daughter will not let me know where they are staying but last I heard they moved into a studio apartment with a kitchen 2 adults and 3 kids. I believe she is still going to the clinic but I have no idea about the husband, still think he is using.

She is going to be arrested at some point soon because of forged checks from her previous work - most likely to support his habbit as her boss overheard several conversations with her groveling to him saying she was sorry and had to wait for her check as her boss was still busy. At that time the officer involced will have CPS notified when she is arrested (we are hoping for a warrant for the husband at the same time for theft, but the DA may not go for it due to sketchy evidence). It is a shame she will do time for her husband but she made the choice and has many chances to stay with her family if she left hime. She will not leave him, there is not much else we can do at this time.

I have worked to have CPS notified that we are ready, willing and able to take in the kids when this happens and since the system is so overwhelmed in this county they will be more than happy to give them over to family.

Thanks again. Anyone else with better suggestions are more than welcome to respond.
Bless you all.
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Good, glad you have that covered.  Excellent.  Good luck.
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It's sounds like you are not throwing your daughter to the wolves as much as getting prepared to help her pick up the pieces when she hits the bottom.  That sounds like a way to fight it, let their addiction take its course, even if it is jail, but apply the unconditional love to help your daughter, once she has received enough help to know that you are on her side.  At first glance one might think that there are other options, but it appears your daughter has exhausted them.  
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I too have a drug addicted daughter and son in law and two grandchildren.  We were used for a long time, but finally had enough.  We tried just taking the kids in, but they always wanted them back and were still using heavily.  I finally went down to the juvenile court in our town and filed a petition for custody. It costs about $80.  When this is filed, a guardian was appointed for the grandchildren and a court date was set.  When the court date came, my daughter had already given me the kids for about 2 weeks as they could not feed them and the power and water was to be shut off.  They had also lost their jobs.  When we went to court, they had to drug test.  They tried to get out of it by stating that they had no $$.  The judge waived the cost and they both admitted they would test positive.  I got the kids and a new date was set for 3 months.  They were ordered to complete treatment and marital counseling during that time.  My daughter did get and complete treatment, but her husband never even tried.  As a matter of fact, they did not even show up at court so I was given custody.  They are still allowed to see the kids (??) but only supervised and only 2 hrs a week.  That killed my daughter so she said she was leaving him and came home.  She has been here about 1 month, but was back seeing her husband after 1 week.  I can not deal with that.  We will be asking her to leave which is going to be extremely hard on my grandson, but I can not trust her sobriety as long as she wants to continue in a relationship with someone who does not even care enough about his children to at least try treatment.  By the way, he has two children from a previous marriage and one of them is 13 and is in foster care due to her behavior and drug use.  I would advise you to try to get your grandchildren as soon as possible.  You do not have to wait on CPS.  My grandson is 7 and he can tell you so much about drug use because he saw it all.  He should not even be aware of it at his age.  Raising the kids is tough.  Our lives are changed forever, but it is worth it when I see that they are happy and healthy and just being kids.
If anyone has any advise regarding me asking my daughter to leave, please let me know.  Tough love is a struggle that I deal with on a daily basis.
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I bow to you momagain.  What you did is incredible.  What a selfless act.  Your daughter and her kids are very, very lucky that you are around.
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What state are you in? If the grandkids were living with me right now I would do that, but they arent and I do not know where they are exactly. I do know what city but but that's about it. I f I could get a court order for custody without them actually being in my home I would.

Haven't been online lately because my husband has been in the hospital and now we will have tor travel 3 hours away on the 10 of Sept. for the right hospital to take him because he is a "high risk" patient for the type of heart surgery they have to do now.
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Hi...I'd hoped your situation might have improved, but am not surprised to see it hasn't.

Now I don't know enough to speak with certainty (the people and situation are always so much more complicated than a few posts could sum up) but it sounds like these two are toxic together. It sounds as if your daughter has embraced despair as a way of life. Yes, her addiction is a huge problem that needs to be dealt with, but it sounds like a symptom of a greater problem.
     I'm sure you're aware of this, it's not a new thought to you, but when you think of what might have brought her to this state (emotionally) do you have any thoughts or ideas? This may seem futile to helping her, but it could help give you peace through understanding.

     Keep in mind I don't know enough of what's going on, but does she ever express any despair over the idea that she'll never really be able to get clean? People on clinics tend to fall into a malaise of futility. They're on the most addictive drug out there, and their's no easy way to get off. It's very painful and that's intimidating. They tend to start using drugs again because the clinic is just an illusion of being clean. The truth is, they're still an addict, so they feel, "what does it matter?" Anger, fear and frustration over the situation makes it near impossible to get over. Hence, continual use and despair.
   Again, I know it's not that simple and there's obviously other issues there. Just getting off the drugs/clinic isn't enough. Her biggest problem is probably feeling overwhelmed and powerless. I guess what I'm trying to say, is if there's anyway to get her to speak to others (like those here), they may be able to show her hope.

     One of the biggest problems with these clinics is they AREN'T interested in getting you clean, and the patients tend to all be abusers. Not exactly the type of peers to inspire abstinence.
     I'll bet her relationship is co-dependant as well. She's as obsessed with her husband as she is addicted to drugs.
     I'll also bet giving up her kids even temporarily makes her feel like she'll have lost totally. She's using them as an anchor to "The Real World." as long as she has them, she feels she hasn't lost.

Beachtowel suggests turning them in and I wince at this, hate it. But sometimes it's the only way to go. I won't comment, I don't feel I know enough to say, it's a decision that hangs on you. It makes sense from his point of view, he came out of the jails and became a success. But there's an iron strength there that's unusual in an addict.

    I would guess you are going to have to try make arrangements to save the children. You're right, the foster system is terrible. I would even suggest "tricking" the parents into signing paperwork giving you parental rights in the worst case scenario, if it's as bad as it sounds.

I don't know if any of this help, I probably just raised more questions. But at least with questions, you can seek answers.
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I live in Tennessee.  The one requirement to file for custody this way is to know where they are living.  I did not have the kids in my custody when I filed and the courts did not think it was an emergency, so a court date was set for 30 days.  I would think you would have to file in the state in which they reside and you would have to know where they are living.  I'm so sorry for you.  I can tell you this, if your husband has heart problems you need to think seriously about everything.  These kids do need a place to go and a relative is the best situation.  But, I know that I feel chest pains everyday due to stress.  The stress of raising children at my age, the youngest has developmental delays and anger issues which I believe stem from her home situation.  The stress of dealing with my daughter.  I feel it was best for my grandchildren.  Good Luck!
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