Understanding It

[WifeofAddict]

Hi Everyone,
I am the wife of an addict as you can tell by my name.  He is addicted to codiene.  He has been taking this for maybe 2 years now, and what i know is that he is up to at least 12 a day.  He is only 24, and is experiencing great health problems.  I need to understand this disease if this marraige is going to work.  We are going today to tell our family and going to the doc to get something to mask his withdrawal symptoms, as he quit 5 days ago.  He has enrolled in a 21 day rehab clinic.  He starts that beginning of January.  So he will be gone for 3 weeks...good break for me!  I feel like i have to watch him 24/7 and i have a life too!  I am really frustrated, but i am trying to be there for him the best i can.  This is the second time i have found out.  He has been lying to me about it for a long time.  He seems sincere in his quest to stop.  I just don't understand addiction, although it runs in my family.  I can only understand it from my point of view, having being hurt by it over and over again by many people.  Please help me understand this, so i can calm down and be more supportive.  
Wishing you all luck and happiness,
Catherine

[hippy]

the only way to under stand it is to go to alanon or narnon
meetins where spouses like yourself talk about
people like us, addicts.
one thing i can tell you is you can not trust him untill he
gets better

[RobynBanks]

If he's 'serious' about quitting, your support is ideal. I know you have a life too...If its an ongoing issue, its hard to keep supporting. I am lucky enough to have a supportive partner but THERE IS A LINE. You have to draw that line or he will take advantage of your support and you will lose his respect. If you can both come through this together, it will make you a stronger couple but put yourself first.
Luck to you.

[Denice]

I recently learned that my recovery addict boyfriend was getting high on prescribed nerve pills, so he said.  I found a hypo needle and a spoon with residue in his pocket.  He has been going to a clinic for 1 year to take a dose of methadone to help with his recovery.  I believe the methadone only keeps him from having withdrawals from using heroin.  I need to know a way to approach this situation.  Any suggestions?

Desepartely seeking answers.

[WifeofAddict]

Thanks for your comments....they are really appreciated.  I can't talk to anyone about this because they either don't understand or I don't know if i can trust them.  This is what i have learned today.  Methadone is not the answer.  This is just another addictive drug.  We are talking with family, he is taking hot baths, lots of rest, and lots of Rub A535!  One day at a time.  We are going to our doctor tonight to get his heart rate looked at and to see if he is going to be o.k.  Thanks for the suggestions on books.  I am in school right now for Psychology...and so a good book will help me out a lot.  Also, i am planning on going to see someone about this...i just want to get him into the clinic first, so that i am free to leave the house without worrying about him.  I know that sounds like i am putting him first...and maybe i am...but it is for my own sanity right now.  I was also thinking of making him do random drug tests, so i know for sure if he is off them.  Is this healthy?  I don't want to drive him to do them again...but I think this will be the only way i will be able to trust him again.  Anyways, i am going to be coming here alot in the next couple of months....because it makes me feel better about our situation...and that we are not alone.  
For the addicts in here...I don't think you realize how many people love you and care about you....find those people and tell them what is wrong and they will support you.  You just need to be honest with them.  
Thanks again for listening and caring to reply
Catherine

[WifeofAddict]

First, i think you need to start a new post...because people will notice yours if they read through mine and you might get a better response if you make a fresh one.  
Anyways, i don't know what to tell ya.  If you are asking how do you approach him?  I would just tell him what you found and tell him it is time to get honest with himself.  I mean you have the evidence...what more do you need?  If you are asking how do you deal with his problem?  I am going through a similar thing...so i am not one to give advice...but read what has been written to me and that may help you too.  Does he want to stop?  Is he willing to give up drugs altogether forever?  
Anyways, hope to hear from you again
Catherine

[Denice]

Didn't mean to impose on your post.  Just looking for some answers.  Your right I have the evidence and I did confront him.
No I don't think he wants to quit.  Which is why haven't seen in 5 days.  I guess the only thing I can do now is pray for him.  This is all so new to me.
Thanking you again for your comment.

[WifeofAddict]

I am sorry...i didn't mean you were imposing on me.  Not at all.  I just want you to get as many answers as you can...and i think if you did your own you would get more answers..that is all.  So sorry if it came across that way.  Anyways, to start your own..go to the screen where it lists off all the topics under the addiction forum...and go to Post a Question...that will highlight your question on the forum and hopefully get more of a response.  I will keep posting you...and maybe we can help each other out.  
Take Care
Catherine

[MethMan]

Thought I'd chime in with my two cents worth after reading your previous response.  In my opinion, you're right. Methadone for a Tylenol 3 habit shouldn't be an option. Re-hab (if he commits to it) is a great start.  They'll give him the tools he'll need, but he has to use them.
As far as you requiring random drug tests, well... that's your business.  But, know that it is a fine line you're walking.  If you've been around his use long enough, then you're sure to have feelings like anger and betrayal, especially if he hid it from you.  I can understand your idea and how you think it would help you know if he's using or not.  Fact is, there are ways around those.  So, while it's possible for you to monitor him in that way, I would advise against it.  Basically, you'd trade a false sense of knowing he is not (or is) using with the resentment he would feel for being put through that.  Is that a good trade off?  It's a call you and him have to decide on.
Alanon or Naranon are good places for you to go to both understand this issue as well as work out any resentment, anger and betrayal you may be feeling.  The last thing you want to do is inadvertantly add to the problem by demanding things from a person that is having a hard time helping himself.
Remember:  Addiction is not a disease of the weak, but a disease of the soul.  And it's hard to help yourself when you don't know you're in trouble.  Try kindness and an attempt to understand that he needs help in helping himself.

I wish you and your loved one the best life has to offer.

Mike

[theGolden1]

I don't know if you are still around .... but I would like to share observations on ultram. I can't get a straight answer about ultram withdrawal, and I have been all over the internet.
How are you doing with it? I have been using it for 2 years under doctors orders. My doctor said it wasn't habit forming ... what a crock! Anyway .... I'm planning to switch to vicodin for 2 or 3 weeks in hopes of getting ultram out of my system. Do you have any suggestions? I'm getting kind of nervous about it.

[WifeofAddict]

Thanks Mike, You are right about the drug testing idea...and i knew that...i am just lost for answers right now.  I am afraid that this is not going to work and that we will be right back in this situation a year from now.  But i can't control him....or help him.  I just love him and don't want to leave him, and i know if this happens again...i will have no choice but to.  I guess i just want to make sure it doesn't come to that.  
Thanks again,
P.S.  Are you a recovering addict?  
Catherine

[girlrobin]

I have been using Ultram for just 6 weeks now due to a back injury.  I agree that you cannot just stop taking it.  I have talked to my doctor and he does not agree that it is addictive, I would like him to try it out and see what happens.  Anyway, I have taken as perscribed and am up to 6 a day, I talked to a nurse who used to work in detox and she gave me a schedule to follow to stop using them. 6 for 2 days, 5 for 2 days 4 for 2 days 3 for 2 days 2 for 2 days and then 1 for a couple of days.  She said the last dose to cut out is the morning dose at least for me, that is when I wake up shaky.  I don't know if this will help you, I don't know how many you are using.  I also go to AA and NA and dislike this feeling of having a pill controlling my day, been there done that, so I am ready to deal with some pain and get off the ****.  Again, I am not a medical professional but this is the plan that I am following for the next couple of weeks, so far it's going okay, for me it's just a matter of getting adjusted to each decrease in dose and that can take a while.  If your ready and willing to go through what it takes I know it can be done, I had a morphene/speed habit that was up to about 40 pills a day, ended up in a straightjacket, but I made it through.  I no longer want this disease to take up my life and the life of those around me, I know it scarey but it can be done.  Hope I helped, I will be praying for you........

Robin

[hippy]

good morning,
i have taken ultram and it is no fun getting off of,
the withdrawls are a real pain.
but i must say my experence with the withdrawls from
]vikes and percs is worse.
sounds like you are useing vikes to get off of ultram.
now that is a situation. its like useing wiskey to get off beer.
i did it the other way around, i used the ultracet
to hepl me
wean off the vikes,one reason was ultam and ultracet never made me feel good at all, and it was easier not to do.
where the vikes gave me energy and a false sense of well being.
for a while.

well i hope it go's well
peace!!!!!!!!!!

[Witchywoman]

Hi Wifeofanaddict,
I hope the responses you've gotten have been helpful. One piece of feedback though, this forum only allows two new questions a day, and in the two years I've been posting here, I've never been able to start a new topic on my own.  So, it is our own decorumn to sometimes have to politely include a new comment or thread within an already started thread. Most of the time there is just no other way to get heard.

I agree that talking with other addicts and partners and friends of other addicts is extremely helpful to someone in your position. I don't agree that the only way is through the 12 step programs of alanon or naranon.  I never used the 12 step programs and have been clean over a year. My husband stood by me, and learned what he needed to know by reading and talking one on one with the spouses of other addicts in recovery.

But, there are many ways to the same goal. Find what works for you, and follow it. Many people get a ton of help from alanon and naranon. My only issue was that someone said it was the only way.   I am not sure that I believe only reading a few books is the only way either. I think reading can be very helpful, but talking to those of us who have been there, however you manage to do that, has been what has worked for most people.

I wish you well in this journey. He does have to choose to stop and to come totally clean with you. There is a lot of trust that has to be rebuilt.  Not only am I a recovering addict, but I'm also a Psychotherapist, so while I am not an MD Doctor, I do know a little bit of what I'm talking about when I talk about communication and trust building skills.  It is not an easy road. It took my husband a long time to trust me again, but then again , I put him through hell.

Good luck to you, and please keep us posted. We will do what we can to help you understand this process.

love,
WW

[MethMan]

Sorry it took so long to get back to you.  Yes, I am a recovering addict from a 10+ year methadone habit.  Today, is Day 30 for me, tommorrow will be 31.  So far, I am successful because; 1. I took accountability for my own actions, 2. I sought help when I realized I was powerless over this disease and 3. FANTASTIC people online (including here) that walked before me and shared their experiences which lessened my concern.
DISCLAIMER:  I chose to leave out "My Higher Power" (which is Jesus Christ) above.  While my belief was extremely instrumental in my own recovery, some choose not to go that route.  It doesn't make me right or them wrong.  Different strokes, that's all.
WitchyWoman is right about considering different paths to help yourself.  A lot of people do get help from Alanon or Naranon, but for some, they take a different path and are equally successful.  I guess what we all are trying to say is do what works for YOU.
IF your husband is in a 21 day in-patient program right now, he is probably realizing that he is not alone in his struggles.  There are COUNTLESS people in the same boat as he is.  For me, that was a comforting thing once I came to the conclusion that I was no different than everyone else.  Additionally, I would suspect that the program he is in will have what they call, "Family Week".  If they do, DO NOT MISS THAT.  It is your opportunity to understand what he is up against and (equally important) what YOU have had happen to you, why and how you can begin to fix the hurt that has been present.
I can only speak of my own experiences during my addiction.  I was very selfish with feelings and was completely oblivious to the fact that others saw me going downhill fast.  Here I was, going through life thinking I kept a secret from everyone that I was on methadone.  When I got out of in-patient, I was quite a bit concerned about what "others would think of me" which is one of the manifestations of this disease.  Once I finally decided to not care what they thought, I told them and found that (for the most part) everyone was very supportive and that everyone that knew me thought I had a HELL of a Coke habit.  Funny... I never touched it in my life.  But... it goes to show you, when in active addiction, perception of your surrounding world being OK is only that.  An ill-conceived perception.
Like him, you too will have issues to deal with.  It is natural when you love someone and wish there was SOMETHING you could do.  No matter how hard you try, no matter what you say or do, you just can't seem to get anywhere.  And to find out that he hid it from you is yet another thing to deal with.  For him to go in-patient DOES show commitment on his part.  Give him credit for that giant step.  IMHO, the trick (as you eluded to in your previous post) of not going "right back to where you are a year from now", is to have all the tools you will need in place.  Tools can range from set councelling sessions, Alumni checking on his status, others that have "been there done that" walking WITH him as a sort of check and balance, YOUR councelling and small steps that include acknowledgement of the accomplishments along the way, no matter how small.  IMHO, emphasizing the POSITIVES is a great way to keep the negatives at bay.
While he's getting help, get help yourself.  One way or another.  Whatever works for you.

God Bless,
Mike

[MethMan]

Rex,
How are you doing?  Where are you at on your schedule bud?  Just checkin' in on you.

Peace,
Mike

[WifeofAddict]

Thanks Again Everyone.
Sorry again about the whole posting thing.  Again, i will say i just thought it best for Denice to start a new one...because she would get more of a response.  I thought that people would only read what was highlighted and no further.  Just trying to help...but i guess it sounded rude.  Didn't mean it that way.  I actually was trying to be polite....but i guess it wasn't taken that way.  ONCE AND FOR ALL I WOULD LIKE TO SAY
SORRY ABOUT THE POSTING REMARKS, THEY WERE NOT MEANT TO BE RUDE, JUST TRYING TO HELP.  
Catherine

[zoe1]

Hi there... I relate to your post because I've walked several miles in your shoes.  I stood beside an addict as he took himself to hell and back several times.  Its a difficult battle for *everyone* involved.  

My suggestion to you would be that you go to a 12-step program for yourself.  I know that these programs aren't for everyone and can accept that, but I know that Al-Anon has been a LIFE & SANITY SAVER for me.

The 1st time the addict in my life went through inpatient treatment, I played a very active role in the process.  I wanted to be as supportive as possible.  I took vacation time so I could attend Family Week and went to visit him and give enouragement every chance I got.  I an grateful for that process because through it, I found Al-Anon...  Unfortunately, he didn't get as much out of it as I did and was soon using again.

The next year, I was shocked to find that his drug use was out of control again.  He tried to commit suicide.  Fortunately, I got him to the hospital in time.  Again, I was 100% supportive...  unfortunately, he started using again soon after being released from the psych ward.

I STILL stayed by him and tried to help him as he went through TERRIBLE withdrawals again and again... it was agony to watch him put himself through such torture.

Finally, his use hit an all-time bottom.  He wasn't even the person I'd known and loved....  I still cared for him VERY much, but we had very little contact.  He spiraled downward faster than I could have ever imagined possible.  And you know what??? I just stood back and watched it happen.  I finally came to the point where I realized that the ONLY thing I could do was live a happy (drug free) life and hope that he'd see something in me that he wanted for himself.

He's in inpatient treatment again now.  Although I love him VERY much, I'm not playing an active role in that process this time.  It was draining my energies to get so involved in that...  time for me to put the focus back on caring for myself.  I pray each morning and each night that he'll beat this thing.  Right now, I'm just grateful that he's still alive.

I guess my point is that no matter how much you love someone, you can't beat drugs for them.  I know you already know that (I did too), but I also know that it is VERY hard to accept.  

My thought on the UIs to prove that he's clean is this:  I don't want to be in a relationship where trust is based on the results of a test (which can be manipulate).  Trust is something that is either there or it isn't.  My guy actually offered to have tests like that done for my benefit.  I replied that I thought the tests were a good idea if he did them for HIMSELF.  I don't want to see the results.  His recovery is his and it isn't my place to monitor it.  

Hang in there.. you're not alone.

[groovygirl]

Sorry to jump in on this thread...I've been in detox for the past few days.  I had to go into the hospital.  I ran out of Bup before the holidays with no hope of getting more at the time.  I couldn't take the sickness that followed.  Now I am feeling weak and depressed...don't let anyone kid ya about Buprenex.  It kicked my ass.

Thanks to those to emailed me...I appreciate your words, and I'll write back when I feel a little better.  Just typing these words are difficult...

[Rex1]

Hang in there and we'll be praying for you...


Rex

[MethMan]

Hang tough girl.  If someone like me can hang strong, so can you.  As promised, if there is anything I can do for you, I will.
All I can think of now is to pray for your fast recovery and send you good vibes.
Take my hand and we'll walk the walk.  No one has to do it alone.

All the best,
Mike

[Rex1]

Mike,

Thanks for thinking of me. Well, here's where I am in my schedule.

10 day now off the Vicodin (Norco) - YAAHHHOOOO!
Still occasionally taking Tylenol 4 for pain, tapering on this down to 2/day, sometimes 1/day, shooting for 0/day by this Sat. This medicine, although a narcotic, is pratically useless, and pales in comaprison for pain relief with any of the big three. iT still can be addictive, though, so it's going next - Saturday is my 0-DAY

Next up, Ibuprofren 3 times a day, now down to two per day, shooting for 0 day, three weeks from Sat, Dec 28th in keeping with the 2003 sobriety challenge that so many here have accepted.

Excedrin for headaches only, was 4 day, now 2/day shooting for only for level 10 headaches when needed.

How are you doing?

Rex

[Rex1]

Thinking about you and hoping your trip is going well and you're feeling better...

Rex

[Rex1]

I realized recently that getting off of narcotics, tapering down to zero on drugs you have been on for so long, is really like saying goodbye to a friendship, like severing a relationship - the end of an era really. A companionship comprised of me and my pills. We were buddies, my vikes and me. I can just hear myself humming that old Coke theme "Things go better with Vikes!"

After all, they have been almost constant companions, wispering " I will help you get over anything - back pain, emotional pain, boredom, and stress at work. Hey  - 20 minutes and you'll be set!"

AND for a time they do - a very short time. What these subtle little beauties didn't tell me is that they have been setting me up, getting me into something that is hell to get out of.

But most of all, theirs is a greedy relationship. I don't know about everyone else, but the relationship, the companionship I speak of with drugs is an exclusive relationship in many ways. That is, when taking these drugs, I want to do certain things, and often don't want to do other certain things - good things , great activities with my kids as just one example.

Ending the habit with pills was like ending a relationship that started out great, and turned ugly, but was tough to let go. The ones God intended all along, and all of them done in sobriety. I'm not saying I love every minute - I don't.

However, it now has meant rekindling the relationships that I really want, the ones that are natural and give back naturally good feelings.

My Pain Doc tells me something every visit, and I think it is valuable to the group here, so here it is:

"It's great to get off the pain pills, but when you do, you MUST replace it with something else".

Guys, go find your "something else" while your tapering, whatever that is for you. Kick out your old friend, and invite your new relationship in, whether that be family, sports, excercise, prayer and Bible study - whatever! They won't die easy, mind you, but the new stuff will help you kick out the old stuff, and tapering will be easier than ever.

And that makes it it all worth it...

Rex

[Thomas02]

Judging by your posts, you already know the most immediately critical information about your husband's Xanax addiction, that sudden cessation can literally kill him -- especially at, what? 15 mgs per day? That's 30 of the familiar orange .5's.

I was addicted to Xanax for two years and learned about its dangers the hard way. One thing I can tell you that's got your husband so convinced he can't live without the stuff is that the most immediate and severe Xanax WD symptom is unfocused, paralyzing fear -- anxiety is too polite a word for it.

The first step he needs to take to get off Xanax is to have his doctor switch him to whatever daily dosage of Valium he needs to feel normal and free of the "Xanax terrors." Unfortunately, many doctors in this country are shockingly ignorant about dealing with benzo addiction. You and your husband should go to Dr. Heather Ashton's web site, where you will find a treasure trove of information on safe tapering AFTER the patient has switched to a long acting benzo like Valium. Some like Klonopin, but Valium leaves the body significantly slower than Klonopin, making the tapering process virtually painless, and it's cheap as dirt. Print out the salient pages from Dr Ashton's site and take it to the doctor. That's what I did and I got no argument at all about switching. Good luck,

Thomas

[WifeofAddict]

Hi, just wondering if you meant that response for me?  My husband is addicted to Codiene...is Xanax the same thing?  I am confused now.  Thanks for the advice.
Catherine

[lisabet]

Hi Mariposa - glad you see you back.  I missed ya - hope you're doing better.  Peace/Love, Lisabet

[MethMan]

Outstanding work, my man!  Sounds like you have it down to a science.  Your post regarding the trading of the habit for something else is a great idea.  For me, it's a renewed relationship with my guitar and amp.  While the speed isn't back to where it was, it does take my mind off how I feel for a bit.

I'm proud of your efforts!

Mike

[Rex1]

I have wanted to play the guitar since I was 10! Go for it.

I have, unfortunately, no rythym to my being. I would certainly be kicked out of any residence I attempted to practice in.

Mam, the depression is hitting me hard again today. I need someone to assure me it will be all right, that's it going to pass...

Rex

[Rex1]

I have wanted to play the guitar since I was 10! Go for it.

I have, unfortunately, no rythym to my being. I would certainly be kicked out of any residence I attempted to practice in.

Man, the depression is hitting me hard again today. I need someone to assure me it will be all right, that's it going to pass...

Rex

[Thomas02]

woops! I posted on the wrong thread. Sorry 'bout that.

Thomas

[WifeofAddict]

Hahaha it is ok.  thanks for clarifying though...I was beginning to wonder how many names for it were out there!  hahahaha.  Still the advice works, whatever drug it is.  Thanks Again
Catherine

[WifeofAddict]

I have been reading alot about taking another drug for W/D.  My husband is taking nothing...but Advil and Muscle Relaxers.  He seems fine.  Should i be worried?  What i am thinking is that for all the other drugs...it is nessesary...but not for codiene addictions?  Am i correct in my thinking?
Catherine

[Thomas02]

by worried, do you mean worried he is using behind your back? Otherwise, if the Advil and muscle relaxers are holding him, it all sounds good to me.

An important thing for the spouse of an addict to learn about addiction and recovery is that becoming addicted is not a moral failure or sign of weak character, nor is recovery one smooth, straight path into the light. Recent studies indicate that the brain adapts over time to the presence of addictive agents such as opiates, including codeine. When addicts say they use just to feel normal, they are more correct than most of them know. With most addictive drugs, party time is fleeting. The greater part of an addict's life is consumed by the need to feel whole. A researcher compared long-term drug users to stroke victims. Recovering addicts must literally develop new brain pathways through which to function.

Recovery is typically a lifetime of attempts, interrupted by relapses. If an addict is basically committed to recovery and proactively seeks out the methods best for him, the time between relapses increases. Some studies show that, for even hard core addicts such as myself, age leads to less and less use.

Your husband has "only" been addicted to codeine for 2 years. His chances of achieving a lasting recovery are quite good. But he must know that, should he succumb to temptation in the future, he can be honest with you about it without causing the breakup of his marriage. There will be many, many temptations as time goes on -- lots of opportunities to obtain pain meds from doctors. But even opiate addicts can learn to use their meds as prescribed, especially if they have the help of a spouse.

Thomas

[MethMan]

Like withdrawals, your depression too shall pass.  Did you have a problem with depression prior to use?  If so, that "Good Ol' Boy" will stay with you till you find out what the core issue is causing it.  It could be anything.  For me, it was a chemistry imbalance in the brain.  "Serzone" which I am on now fixed it.  I'm on 100mg once in the AM, then once in PM.  Serzone while it works for me, may not for you. But if you have had a PREVIOUS problem with depression, then you ought to go in and have someone do a workup on you (Full blood workup including your thyroid.).  If you did not have a problem with depression, then it will pass.  It is part of the healing process of the brain.  Where there were synthetic dopamine introduced by DOC, then when there is none, the brain just takes a little time to "re-wire".
You could try posting a pissed off letter to your "Neuro-transmitters" like I did.  It was dumb, but it felt good.
You're doing great bud.  Hang strong. The road gets MUCH better as a little time goes on.
Someone here far brighter than I said in response to someone's question of "Why is Day 5 so bad?", they said, "Because Day 5 using was so good."  There's a lot of truth in that statement.
Give it a little time and keep exercising and using a good multi-vitamin.  Both help build your brain back up to snuff.
Good **** brother, I am proud of you.

Peace,
Mike

[Rex1]

Today of all days, I need that encouragment.

Thanks a million.

Rex

[lisabet]

Hi Rex - sorry to hear you're having such a shitty day. I wish I could give you advise, but at the time am in no condition to to so.  I do know you've been an inspiration to me, so I'll keep you in my prayers tonight.  We're all going to have days where we feel like we're literally "hitting the wall"; sounds like this is one of your days.  You're such a sweet soul; makes me think of a comment by Kurt Cobain (Nirvana) who basically said that he thought all addicts were (more sensitive than most) souls who were just trying to "quiet" the noise in their heads; for some reason that has always stuck with me.  (Unfortunately, Mr. Cobain ending up putting a bullet in his head; guess he couldn't take the "noise" anymore).  Wanted to let you know that I've started the tapering process; down to 10 hydros tomorrow from 12 the last 2 days.  I feel different this time; call it hope or faith or whatever, but for whatever reason, I feel more determined that I have in a long time. Stopped at the drug store this evening with the thought of buying a bottle of Jack Daniels; set in my car probably 10 minutes, and left without going into the store.  Although, honestly, if I had it in the house right now, no doubt I would already have a shot or two.  Well, will say good-nite. Gonna take a long hot shower and go to bed.  I hope you're feeling better tomorrow.  Peace/Love, Lisabet

[Rex1]

Hey thanks for the reply.

Tomorrow, make sure you congratulate yourself for your victory today - OK?

I know that you can do this tapering thing - I know it cause I did it. Also, I did take BodyMechnaics suggestion an added a half dose of Klonopin which did the trick for the anxiety at least for tonight.

I will be using this very very carefully based on many here telling me about its addictive properties.

Anyway, Here's my current taper report:

Norco - was on up to 12 per day - down to ZERO
Tylenol 4 with Codeine - used sparingly 2-3 per day after Norco detox - down to ZERO
Ibuprogren 800mg - was 3/day - down to 2/day
Excedrin - 4-6 per day on bad days down to 2/day

Thomas recipe minus L-tyrosine plus 5htp, plus one half benzo today only

Good luck with your plan. Make you a deal, if you feel like the Jack Daniels, post here first, and answer this question "How is this going to help you for tommorrow?"

Little by little your winning! Come Sunday it will be one week on the taper schedule...

Rex

[MethMan]

Rex,
Are you adding any exercise to your schedule?  I know it sounds dumb, but when I was hitting the hump and didn't know what to really expect, I got feedback from people here, then went walking whether I felt like it or not.  About half way through the walk, I started to feel a little better.  The worst thing I've found that I can do is to just sit there or lay there and feel the withdrawal.  You got to get up and move.
If you're down to nothing more than Ibuprofin 800's and Excedrin, dude, you've got it.
You've got your airspeed up.  Lift your spirits and fly brother, fly.

Peace,
Mike

[Rex1]

Yeah, I'm doing 88 solid hours of football on Sunday...........watching football that is. Does that count?

I've also taken Choir back up ;-0

Seriously, I have been running two miles a day - screaming in pain the whole way in my mind but doing it. ALso, some light weight lifting.

Part of my depression could stem from the fact that I used to have that South Beach Miami golden tanned bod, and now I seem to just have a body that's _gone_ south. Oh well, it'll come back as long as I can skip the half a gallon of Schwans ice cream I eat every 4 hours - Ok Ok, it's only once daily.

It sucks:

being old
being young but feeling old
Wanting to make it all go away with a Norco, knowing it won't
Remembering the look on the face of the guy who rented snorkels on the west side of Maui "I care about nothin' dude!"
Hearing about folks here goin thru rough times
having back pain, leg pain, pain pain

It's great that:

I don't live in Iraq
Don't work in Iraq
Have 3 great kids
Have a great wife
Have a great God
Have a great house
Folks here ARE getting better/sober/happier/cleaner/gooder
I have lots of great friends here to help me.
-----------------------------------------------------
The greats beat the suck(s)es!!!!!!

Thanks for the reply,

Rex

[pillhell]

To Methman:
I have been reading your posts,and I see you were on meth. for a very long time.Me and my husband have been using (abusing)pain killers in all shape,size,and form.We have detoxed many times.But now we are taking meth. for about a year.Illigally.I really want to stop.We cant afford a treatment center,I've made many calls,and nobody will speak to me with no insurance.Ideally I'd like to find a doc. who will help me with meds to detox.The detox from pills were hell,and I'm scared to death about stopping the mrth.Scared to death to continue as well.I have two beautiful children,who need me and their daddy to be around for them.Another thing is my husband is the only one working,cant afford to take time off work to detox.I read a post about someone who has similar problem,a dad of four.Can you or him please give me some advice.I feel as if im drowning.HELP!!!

[bare]

I just started reading these other threads. I never realized you were struggling so much. I hope this is not too late. I need to tell you that you were the hope I had the first few days going through w/d/. When I felt pannicky I would log on and write. I know that your going to beat this! You are very spiritual. Pray. God does help take the edge. Earlier on a post I think methman made a sugg. that you DO something. Well I can say that it is very difficult to get moving, but, once you do, you feel tired afterward but renewed. So get movin bud! Why not take those kids of yours out to a tennis court and screw around? To a park? Movies? Board game outside? Bicycle? Beach bound? You can do it!!  Hold fast and may your w/d go with speed. (NOT the bad kind) ;-)Remember your advice to me. Kick it while kickable. According to your schedule, your kicking major ass! KIT
                     SINCERELY, S

[Rex1]

Thanks - I need that.

I thanked Hippee today and want to thank Methman too. he was my you to me. Or my me to you or my version of you to him, whatever.

You know what I mean.

Hippee, Methman, your work here is officially a spreading virus! Way to go...

Rex

[MethMan]

Pillhead,
Forgive me for taking this long to post back to your inquiry.
How do you feel right now?  Do you feel like the best part of your life has passed?  Do you feel like you will never amount to anything?  Do you feel that there is no hope?  Do you feel that others may be able to do it, but you sure can't?  Guess what.  It's all a mind-f*ck.  Those are the EXACT feelings I felt when on methadone for over 10 years.  It's the nature of the beast.

The reality is that you are no different than I am.  I have been clean from this hell since November 3rd at 7:45AM.  I am a little achy at times, my energy is slowly coming back, but above all, I have renewed hope, reestablished zest for life and a strong sense of purpose that what I went through over the last 10 or so years was a building process for a good future.

Everyone is different to be sure.  But what I can tell you is that for me, it is mind over matter. I don't mind, cause it don't matter.  Rise ABOVE it.  I know it seems impossible right now.  Why? Because your hope has been drained and you're suffering from a spiritual mality.  I am here to tell you that you are better than the disease itself.  Addiction loves to keep you down by telling you that you "Can't do it." You can't because you are not strong enough.  You can't expect anything other than what you have RIGHT NOW.  It is a full load of bullcrap.  Don't think you can overcome, KNOW you can.  Am I special?  No.  I am just another guy that's been to hell, found the price of property cost FAR to much and returned to the living. How? Dedication to kill addiction.  Dedication to reclaim me.  Dedication to rise above this ****, move forward and flip it the bird on the way past it.

See, until the seed of "possibility" is planted and takes root in your mind, you are destined to repeat.  Are you tired of it yet?  Does addiction help you live a happy, joyeous and free life?  What has addiction done for you that you appreciate?  Why are you dedicated to such evil?   Are you better than this evil?  Regardless of what addiction tells you, you ARE better.

Stand strong.  You are by definition a survivor. A warrior in the fight for not only your life, but your soul. Stand up and kick it's ass.

I've said it before, but the road I've been on has been rough.  But the end result is a high with no equal.  And the view from here is spectacular.  There are open seats up front.  Wanna sit down?

God Bless,
Mike

[bmac]

Now the torch is past on to you. Now teach others what you learned here. It is a huge cycle we share. Just think and God forbid I might come back here all screwed up and it could be you guiding me through and out of the hell of withdrawal.
I have watched from the sidelines as you came here all screwed up and passed through it. Now pass it on to others.
Peace to you my friend!!!!bmac

[Rex1]

Funny that you posted - after Mike's message above I was considering posting a thank you to you since you helped me directly and indirectly.

I never know whether I have been passed a torch, or if I am hogging all the threads.

I must admit that there are some truly awesome people here and so, from me to you, thanks for all you have done.

Why don't we both agree that neither one of us will show up here seeking each other's help, at least for falling off the wagon anyway... other stuff would be just fine.

Rex

[Rex1]

You put the rest of us to shame my man...

Thanks for the post above. And if I haven't thanked you enough, thanks for helping me through the first two weeks.

Rex

[percsnomas]

MM: those are the kind of posts needed here!!
I've travelled portions of that road, with my 4 year 12-18 perc/day habit; and I echo your comments about a beautiful view once you sift thru the ****. Next week it will be 4( FOUR) months off opiates, and words can't express what a thrill it is to reclaim ones' life.

Pillhell, I shared another forum member's detox from methadone(Bmac) the same time i was coming off the percs....it wasn't a whole pile of fun, but F&*k was it worth it, for both of us.
Next thing you know, Bmac reaches out to Methman(and of course anyone wanting help), and well, you know where Methman is today...
So you see the cycle will continue with you and your husband.
WE ARE HERE FOR YOU

Percs No More
ps.  my two lit'l ones have been overjoyed to get their Daddy back

[kell737]

Hi there.  Haven't been around for awhile and just wanted to say Hi.  I'm almost 4 months clean!!!!!!!!!!!   It's been rough but things are a lot better now.  Let me know how your doing.  

~Kell

[percsnomas]

OH MY GOD!!!!
How are you buddy??? I missed you, and have thought of you lots.
I'm so glad you are at ~~4mths; which is right cause I'm there nextThursday.....remember we were 2 weeks apart.
I'm doing great, and the family is well also. Had a lit'l Mother in Law intervention a month or so ago.
Your hubby coming back still at Christmas??

[percsnomas]

...sorry about that

[bmac]

Thanks!

[percsnomas]

You are Welcome!!

[MethMan]

Rex,
Do not give me any of the credit.  It is ALL yours brother. YOU did it.  If I was capable of brightening the path a little, it was only because of the power given to me by bmac.  And like Percs said, he walked with bmac, bmac gave it to me and I simply passed it on.  I am nothing more than another person fighting this hell.
To see a true miracle beyond measure, check out the people JUST ON THIS THREAD.  Is it not amazing to see miracles working in each dark corner?  I've got goosebumps just thinking about the strength these people have in this fight.
Look at what you've done my friend.  You've organized an army of warriors against the cause.  Do you feel special? I doubt it.  More like grateful, appreciative and a new found kindness for your fellow man.  What strength. Determination.  It is simply awesome and overwhelming to see it happen before my eyes.
You, above all are walking in the light.  Shine on brother.

Peace,
Mike

[bmac]

Now thats a deal my friend.
God bless you,and He does!!!
Peace,  bmac

[kell737]

Good morning.   Yes, it's good to be back.  Missed posting with you guys.  Learned so much in here.  I see  we both made it through the detox!!  I wondered about you everyday.  

My husband is in Afganistan right now.  No, he wont be home for Christmas.   I just ask that everyone pray for those guys over there that they do come home safe!  

I'll be here a lot more now because I find this forum keeops me sane.  LOL   Talk to you soon.  

~kell

[MethMan]

Kell,
You can help me I think.  For the past two weeks, I have been TRYING to find a way to send out a care package and a thank you letter to the troops on the ground in that God forsaken hell hole.

Do you have a means by which I can contact someone and mail something?  I don't want it to go to the higher ups, but the grunt on the ground.  My Dad fought in Korea, my grandfather was at Omaha Beach in WWII.  They said that "SOMETHING" from home helped them through the hard spots.

Thought I'd share the following.  It's from a troop on the ground where your husband is.

TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS,
HE LIVED ALL ALONE,
IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE MADE OF
PLASTER AND STONE.

I HAD COME DOWN THE CHIMNEY
WITH PRESENTS TO GIVE,
AND TO SEE JUST WHO
IN THIS HOME DID LIVE.

I LOOKED ALL ABOUT,
A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE,
NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS,
NOT EVEN A TREE.

NO STOCKING BY MANTLE,
JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND,
ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURES
OF FAR DISTANT LANDS.

WITH MEDALS AND BADGES,
AWARDS OF ALL KINDS,
A SOBER THOUGHT
CAME THROUGH MY MIND.

FOR THIS HOUSE WAS DIFFERENT,
IT WAS DARK AND DREARY,
I FOUND THE HOME OF A SOLDIER
ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY.

THE SOLDIER LAY SLEEPING,
SILENT, ALONE,
CURLED UP ON THE FLOOR
IN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME.

THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE,
THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER,
NOT HOW I PICTURED
A UNITED STATES SOLDIER.

WAS THIS THE HERO
OF WHOM I'D JUST READ?
CURLED UP ON A PONCHO,
THE FLOOR FOR A BED?

I REALIZED THE FAMILIES
THAT I SAW THIS NIGHT,
OWED THEIR LIVES TO THESE SOLDIERS
WHO WERE WILLING TO FIGHT.

SOON ROUND THE WORLD,
THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY,
AND GROWNUPS WOULD CELEBRATE
A BRIGHT CHRISTMAS DAY.

THEY ALL ENJOYED FREEDOM
EACH MONTH OF THE YEAR,
BECAUSE OF THE SOLDIERS,
LIKE THE ONE LYING HERE.

I COULDN'T HELP WONDER
HOW MANY LAY ALONE,
ON A COLD CHRISTMAS EVE
IN A LAND FAR FROM HOME.

THE VERY THOUGHT
BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE,
I DROPPED TO MY KNEES
AND STARTED TO CRY.

THE SOLDIER AWAKENED
AND I HEARD A ROUGH VOICE,
"SANTA DON'T CRY,
THIS LIFE IS MY CHOICE;
I FIGHT FOR FREEDOM,
I DON'T ASK FOR MORE,
MY LIFE IS MY GOD, MY COUNTRY, MY CORPS."

THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER
AND DRIFTED TO SLEEP,
I COULDN'T CONTROL IT,
I CONTINUED TO WEEP.

I KEPT WATCH FOR HOURS,
SO SILENT AND STILL
AND WE BOTH SHIVERED
FROM THE COLD NIGHT'S CHILL.

I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE
ON THAT COLD, DARK, NIGHT,
THIS GUARDIAN OF FREEDOM
SO WILLING TO FIGHT.

THEN THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER,
WITH A VOICE SOFT AND PURE
WHISPERED, "CARRY ON SANTA,
IT'S CHRISTMAS DAY, ALL IS SECURE."

ONE LOOK AT MY WATCH,
AND I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT.
"MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FRIEND,
AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT."

All the best,
MethMan

[Rex1]

Thanks bud.

Perspective is always essential.

Rex

[kell737]

Wow!   Thats all I can say -- WOW!    I send care packages through a key volunteer program here on base.  Where would you be sending it from , maybe I could help you.  I'm at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina.   It's been a rough 2 months, which is how long he's been gone.  

I do a lot of praying!  I will tell you this, anyone that says praying is a waste of time has no clue what there talking about. God, has answered a lot of my prayers and has helped me through this, especially since I was detoxing as well.  Give me a little more info and I'll ask my key volunteer for you.....  I can reach her 24/7!  If you have a program like that where you are, GET INVOLVED!  It is wonderful and gets a lot of negative things off your mind.  Afganistan is not someplace you want to think about a loved one being, let along Iraq or anywhere else.   Good luck to you and keep in touch.....I will help you all I can.  

~Kell

[kell737]

.....And by the way,  sending things from "HOME" to anyone over there puts a smile on there face, no matter what it is.  I have been thinking and I think you can call a command post, (IE: Fort Knox (kentucky) , or Camp Pentleton (Califorina) ) and get some answers about where to send some things.   I will tell you things,  I've been involved in the military for many years and I can give you alittle hint of what the  men and woman like to recieve....I've numbered them from 1-10 from what I've learned over the years (1 being the most enjoyed)

10- Candy, gum, snacks (pringles for sure ) LOL
9- Hand games, pocket games (IE: slots, solitare)
8-  Bath items
7- Local Newspapers
6- pocket calendars
5- Over the counter Head ache meds (only thing they can receive
    is Advil or Tylenel)
4- Magazines (non-nudity) LOL  (there not allowed)  
3- telephone and address book
2- VHS movies (NO DVD's)  Some of the guys can watch movies)
1- Disposable camera

Hope this helps. I will see about how you can send things.  I think you doing a great thing.  Thank you!

~Kell

[MethMan]

THANK YOU KELL!
I'm not far at all from Kelly AFB located in San Antonio, Texas.
I'll contact them to see if they can help me get something over there.
I wonder if they can even receive stuff now.  Isn't the military worried about some moron sending bad stuff in the mail, like happened here in the States for a while?  I'm sure they must scan it and check the contents, right?  I hope so.
Thanks for the list! I'll contact Kelly AFB and see if I can ship a box full of goodies.  How do I label it?  Do I just put, "To whoever didn't get mail today" on it?
EVERYONE ought to be doing this, I think.
Thank you for your help!

Peace,
Mike

[kell737]

lmao@ "anyone not getting mail today" ...First time I've laughed in awhile, thank you!  

Yes, the military checks everything, suprised they don't smell there underwear. LOL   What you can do when you label it AFTER you put the address of where your sending it, which is usually an APO or FPO address (KellyAFB will explain that better)  you can look up a list of the guys over there.  I will tell you this,  You really want the package to go to Staff Sgt's and below (in rank) because  the ones above get a lot more sent to them. KellAFB might (most bases do) give a few names of guys oversees that you can send things too.  
Also, when you call the base you are going to get some a-holes on the phone,  get someone higher up if possible because the higher up the more  accurate info you'll get.  

I called my coodinator this afternoon and left her a messege about this,  she will call me tomorrow and I will find out some more info for you as well.   Have a good evening!  

~Kell

[lisabet]

Thank you for the post.  Makes one stop and think what really matters in life - it made me feel very humbled.  God bless our troops!   Peace/Love, Lisabet

[kell737]

Just wanted to say Hi and I hope you have a great Christmas!   Haven't heard from you in a couple days.     MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

~Kell

[alone]

Hello. I read your comment (Dec 2nd) concerning your Husband. I feel for you. My Husband and I are separated (8 months now). He is an addict...Vicodin and now a drug similar to Norco. He was an addict when I married him 3 years ago...but he hid it so well...and low and behold...I became one too, and in a relatively short time. It's no joke...once you are hooked, it is pure hell getting off of them. He is lucky to have you...a Wife in her right mind...not masked by substance abuse. Hang in there sweetie. Imagine the one thing in your life that you absolutely LOVE, have had it for a while, and can't do without (aside from your husband) and then you are forced to give it up. Not very pleasant. We go through various kinds of "withdrawl" at points in our life...loss of a loved one, weather through death or divorce, and we have to get use to being with out that person...or thing, or what ever it is we lost...and that process is a painful one...different, but it can be just as painful for some people...Then there are those times we long for the return of that lost husband, Parent, etc. or favorite thing...and so goes the withdrawl process from a drug...different in some ways, and not so different in others...But painful all the same. But I can tell you this...all the threats in the world will not make him stop...He has to WANT to stop.

[Rex1]

Could there be reconciliation with you and your husband once you are sober again?

Wanting to is great. But you're leaving out the first step in any 12 step program.

You (and your husband) in and of yourselves are...powerless.

I must respectfully disagree about the "wanting to" part. That is great and will help. But him quitting drugs is not difficult, it's not hard.

It's impossible.

He is powerless without help from you, his family, and in my opinion, God (some call higher power).

Just my opinion.

"with God, all things are possible".

If you hope for reconciliation, then I will pray for such if that's OK.

Glad you are here...

Rex

[alone]

Hello Rex1. Today is NOT a good day. Alot of dizzyness, lightheaded...almost passed out. I am very weak and getting UP off the couch is a major effort. I hear what you are saying about the "Want" issue and agree that stopping any type of abusive behavior...to yourself...or to others...is impossible without help. But don't you think you have to want it first before any further steps can be taken? If a person does not WANT to stop taking Pain Killers, then it ends there. I don't beleive a person can even begin to try to stop unless they really want to. As far as me and my Husband go...I don't know where we are at right now. I kicked him out 8 months ago because he was abusive towards me. And the RAGES...Oh My God...the RAGES...unbeleivable.  He has been taking Pain Killers for AT LEAST 4 years that I know of, but have heard from other people he has been taking them longer than that. He has gone through the beginning stages of withdrawl on numerous occasions only because he ran out of pills and couldn't get any more for a few days...and then right back to them. He tells me "I quit taking them, I don't need them any more" But I know that is not true. Heck, he even mixes them with alcohol all the time. He has literally driven great distances (appx. 100 miles) to a friend of his who gets a regular prescription (but doesn't take them) to get that guys pills and pays him for them. He is now on a regular prescription called "Anexia"...similar to Norco...not as strong...but stronger than Vicodin. Approximately 3 months into the separation, My husband initiated a reconciliation. However he vascillates back and forth about us. He can be very loving at times...and then turns into this monster saying and doing mean and hurtful things. It's so bizare. I went to the "I lift up my eyes" Prayer Web Ring and posted a ton of Prayer requests for this marriage...If you would include us into your Prayer list...that would be greatly appreciated. When we first got married, I had a prescription from a previous surgery that was at least a year old, and he found them and took them. I remember one day I wasn't feeling so hot, and my husband introduced me to how good a Vicodin can rev up your day. Then several more surgeries came for me and I just kept taking them and taking them and taking them...progressing to Norco...and having a Dr. that prescribes Pain Meds at the drop of a hat. And here I am today...HOOKED and going through withdrawls. I am miserable and angry at myself for enjoying the pills to much to stop...and angry at my Dr. for authorizing refills of Norco every 8 days...60 at a time over a lengthy period. My husband goes to the same Dr. How about that?

[Rex1]

I hear you. I hear you, and I know and have experienced a lot of what you are going through - except that I am "The husband" in this case.

Let me say first on the way that you are feeling - this is what we are all going through or have gone through. It isn't fun, but you have to stick it out. Do whatever you can to take your attention away from it, and make yourself comfortable with baths or hot showers or a hot tub. Take ibuprofren if you have it.

As far as your marriage of course I will pray for you. Let me say this - your husband, if he is on Norco is not your husband and you are not you - how about that one!?? Take a newlywed couple, Ok... And don't change anything about their relationship, their surroundings, their careers, or their family (or kids if they have them) Only change two things - the man and the woman. Looking in from the outside, what chance would you give a marriage where during the marriage, you completely changed both participants of that marriage?

Well that is exactly what the Norco does, and did to me. It was a true Jekyl and Hyde thing. For me, the main thing was it made constantly cranky and difficult. I was a pain in the butt (more than my usual ;-)). I was critical, I could be verbally abusive and I was generally a bad husband on Norco. I was not myself. My wife,, the most understanding wife in the world btw, was NOT on any meds, so she bore the brunt of it. But then I realized I wanted me back for her, and for me.

I would be divorced today if I still drank (7 years sober there) and I would be headed that way as well on the Norco had I not wanted to get off it it so badly.

So I submit this to you. Think of your husband right now, and of course I don't know him, but I know this - he is a much better person than he is on the drugs. If you could strip away the drugs, then the guy left standing is probably the guy you love. Mirror facing you now... The girl without the drugs will be a better person, (unless you have heavy chronic pain that requires you to take it to function.)

Take two people, minus drugs, a heavy dose of forgiveness, and if nothing else changes, the marriage improves ten fold is my guess (just a guess). You guys just need to get there, which is unfortunately, the hard part.

But with God, all things are possible.

Email him the address of this forum and ask him to join us here. Maybe you guys could do it together.

I am sure I am somewhat out of line with all this advice to you, but it comes from experience.

Alcohol destroyed my mom and dad, their marriage, and their four kids. I was 15 when it crashed and burned. 6 lives destroyed or nearly destroyed. And the amazing thing is, not once did they have the common sense to say "Hey maybe we should quit drinking and see if our marriage improves".

Substance abuse changes people into people that they don't want to be. But the nature of the beast is that they can't see that through the fog of the abuse itself.

So take one stepp at a time, but use the hope many here give to motivate you. We have a member here - lifeisbetter - read some of their posts, and you will know - there is hope once you get clean.

We'll be here and you hang in there. God's Grace upon you..

Rex

[Rex1]

That back and forth stuff is classic narcotics driven behavior!

He is not him and you are not you. Who knows what may happen if you guys are yourselves again.

I wish for all the best for you....

Rex

[alone]

Thank you Rex. You are not out of line, so don't worry. You are right when you say my husband is probably a much better person without the Pain killers. I would E-Mail him about this Forum, but he doesn't have a computer. Right now, he isn't interested in making this marriage work. He just flips back and forth, and very stubborn. Right now, he doesn't want to hear from me, so I leave him alone. And yet he was there for my surgery...I just don't get it. His back and forth stuff with us literally changes from day to day. I don't have much Hope for us right now.

[alone]

Thank you Rex. Today is a bit better compared to the last two days but still very very hard. I wonder if some of this weakness is associated with recovery from the surgery. I hope things get alot better because I have to return to work...probably by Jan. 3rd. I have a highly stressful job. I have not experienced the back and forth issues that is going on with my husband. I remember one day when he said to me..."I (meaning him) have a Pill and Alcohol Problem"... But he just continues to use and abuse. He also has a Son(13 yrs. old)from a prior marriage that he has physical custody of (joint custody with his Ex). I wonder what damage is going on with his Son as he witneses his father drinking and mixing Pain Killers. UGH!!! I never realized that the back and forth stuff was typical behavior of substance abuse. I have been looking around some more about withdrawl from substance abuse. I found that withdrawl from dual addictions can be very dangerous...with the greater danger being from alcohol. What happened to you when you stopped drinking?

[Rex1]

Somehow, some way, God blessed me with an unquenchable desire to NOT be like my parents. There are times when I have to push back the hate I have for what they did to our whole family with their little Vodka martinis. They are cowards in many ways. But then I remember the fact that their generation is not really a "recovery friendly" generation, and I have to forgive, even though they have not asked to be forgiven. There is nothing more difficult!

That generation drinks, and thats that. Alcohol for that gen was their "thing", like I suppose prescription drugs may be one day thought of as our generation's "thing". (I am 30-10, aka 40 years old)

Quitting alcohol took me two years from the time I actively acknowledged that I wanted to quit. So committed was I to quitting (but couldn't pull it off) that I went to see an addiction doctor. No DUI, no lost job, but a wife that basically said "sober or I am gone". (See George W. Bush's story)

He offered me - what else, a pill! called Antabuse. Ok, when you take this medicine, and then drink, you get really really sick, or so they told me. What happened to me was I turned beet red, and my asthma went into overdrive! I did that once, maybe twice, and then I quit alcohol.

There was a day, when I "awoke" from an 18 year alcohol habit, with three months or so of sobriety under my belt and viewed the world with such clarity, enegry and just well, zest! "So this is what it's like to be sober, huh?" Probably best year of my life...

I hope you will really hear what I am saying right now, because I truly believe I am right about this.

Your husband cannot, I repeat CANNOT, AND WILL NOT, be able to help himself through this. This is Step 1 of the aa Big book, you are Powerless... Now the trick is, how do you help him, when you he is filled with hatred, or being just plain stubborn? That is the 64 Million dollar question.

What I have found is that we addicts like two things:

* Quick fix
* Easy fix

for our problems. A pill - it's wonderful thing! Take this pill, 20 minutes later - BOOM - all is well, for a while, or until your next one. The truth - hard work is what is needed to heal most problems, which in many ways is the opposite of a pill:

Not a quick fix
Not an easy fix
BUT.........has permanent benefits!

What do you do for a bad back - streching or pop a pill? One is easy, one is hard. What do you do for stress - exercise or pop a pill? One is easy, the other is ....well you get the idea.

If there is anyway that, in a soft and caring tone, you can talk to him, and let him know that you would like to walk through the recovery fire together, I would recommend it! Healing broken fences, while acknowledging that it won't be quick and wont be easy, will bring unparalleled happiness to your life - I promise.

There is a Don Henley song ( played with the Eagles) that I like, because of the lyrics, that speak volumes about a tough subject - healing.

"I’ve been tryin to get down to the heart of the matter
But my will gets weak and my thoughts seem to scatter
But I think it’s about...forgiveness....forgiveness
Even if....even if... you don’t love me anymore"

God Grace can help anyone, my dear friend. How do you get God's Grace. It says over and over in the Bible, (and this is illustrated in the life of Christ)

"God gives Grace to the humble"

I'll be praying for your recovery, your husbands recovery, and your marriages' recovery, and I believe all can take place simultaneously.

Love to you during your recovery...

Rex

[lisabet]

Hey buddy - what a heartfelt post!  Your ability to give so much of yourself always amazes me. I was feeling pretty weak until reading your posts to alone; I can identify so much with what you said.  Anyway, your post was my inspiration today. (With teeipup's "mishap" giving me a big tee-hee)...laughter is so good for the soul. Take care, Lisabet

[Rex1]

Hey, I hope you are doing good today! Thanks, and it seems I can't write a short post.

Praying for ya sis!

Rex

[saveyourself]

Well Happy New Years to all.  Up early, went and got the krispy creams for the fam.  I have to say to rex and methman, your ability to convey the reality and hope for addicts, wife of addicts in the written word, is amazing, full of love and humanity.  If only the rest of the world could get some of this.

This has been one of the most touching threads I have read in the time I have been here. So today will be about gratitude for the life I have, the country I live in and most impotantly, my fellow country men serving and defending our freedoms.

My disease is no longer a curse WHEN I AM NOT USING and helping others, for me it is NA and now those with HCV of which I am cured. God , that sounds so great to say. NA works for me and there are many roads to recovery. Anyhow, this disease kept in check with active recovery, the theraputic value of one addict helping another on the tough road to recovery, just might be the most important gift God wants me to have.  Of course, when I am using it is satan himself and the disease when active is out to destroy me and anyone who loves me.
Strength and Honor
Greg

[alone]

Happy New Year to all of you. I'm still hanging in there thanks to all the support and knowing "This too shall Pass". But WHEN??? Just can't get past this horrible tiredness and weakness. No motivation to move much yet. The effort it takes to do anything at all is monumental. UGH!!! I didn't think that going from 3 Darvocet (after all that Norco) a day for 5 days to nothing at all would have such an effect as it has. I keep wondering "How many more days of this"?