VICODIN/PERCOSET WITHDRAWL

[Icedteaaddict]

I have been taking vicodin ES for three years now, I am up to approx.  8-10 a day. I want to stop taking this drug but I am so afraid of withdrawl.  I take it for cronic pain.  I'm truly addicted.  I went to a methadone clinic on Monday and they basically refused me.  They said that cronic pain patients usually don't do well with Meth. because once they have detoxed, the pain is still there.  Can anyone please tell me the best way to get off of them (without in-patient detox) which I can not do.
I've tried tapering to no avail.  Thank you.  Judy

[Mary]

I know that everyone here has their own opinions on detoxing from these drugs.  If you can not get into a program have you tried to slowly stop on your own?  I know that my addiction seems to be more mental than physical.  Have you tried to go down to 6 pills, then 4, then 3 ect....  What I have done in the past and let me tell you I felt so good!  I noticed that I "needed" a pill when I woke up, then about 3 hours later I would take another and then when that didn't work (built up a amunity to the drug) I took yet another an hour later.  I knew that I had a problem and had to quit, not to mention I was running out of excuses to get refills.  What I started to do is.... Take one in the morning when I woke up at 7, then wait till about 2 or 3 pm before I took another, then took another around bedtime.  Cutting back like that I never noticed withdrawls, what I did notice is that after a few days I was waking up without the want to take any pills.  Soon I was able to go until about 11 am until I needed a pill, then my next dose would be in the evening.  With a slow cut down I noticed that my energy went up and experianced little withdrawls.  Mostly I felt frustration the first few days counting the minutes till my next dose.  Lord that sounds bad!
I do wish you the best in all of this.  I know what it is like to fight an addiction when you are still in pain.  I am currently making a slow cut back in my meds.  Especially since my insurance company will no longer give me a month supply at one time, I can only get my meds every 10 tens leaving me at only 4 pills a day.

[steve]

You can try tapering again or cold turkey, It should only be about 3 or 4 days, to get better. If that is all you are taking.
Ask your doctor for Clonidine and Robaxin, it will help with the withdrawels, that's what they give you in detox.  I'm no doctor, but I am still getting over my opiate addiction. I was taking around or equal to 80 vicoden a day. No joke, I was chewing 10 or 12 40mg oxycontin a day. Same drug just more potent. I did it cold turkey with the help of Clonidine and Robaxin. I'm not going to go into how bad it was, but you can only imagine. At your dose you should have no problem. The physical should last a couple of days, then the rest is mental.  Yea then what about the pain? I'm dealing with that right now but don't want anymore narcotics!!  Good luck...........I feel your fear.

                                               Steve

[tom]

JUDY, may I ask, since your pain is still present, why specifically are you trying to discontinue the VicodinES? What are you intending to substitute for these meds?

[Brian to Judy]

If you have chronic pain, perhaps you need the Vicodin.  Often chronic pain patients become tolerant to their meds and require increases to maintain comfort.  Addiction may be preferable to living with the pain.  However, since you seem to want to stop, and have had no luck with tapering, I would suggest finding an outpatient detox.  Many places do outpatient detox, often giving you meds for detox and encouraging you to attend group sessions in the evenings (education on addiction, group therapy).  Or you can try to find an addiction medicine doctor in your area willing to treat you outside of a program setting.  I think the best detox medication is buprenorphine.  If you can find a doc or outpatient program using buprenorphine, your chance of getting off the hydrocodone with minimal physical discomfort is good.  Clonidine is not as effective as buprenorphine, but is certainly better than nothing and works quite well as an adjunct to buprenorphine (i.e. at the end of the buprenorphine detox).  Good luck, many of us have been where you are and have survived!

[Icedteaaddict]

Thank you all who have responded..
My biggest problem and the reason I want to get off of them, is that I know I'm addicted, both mentally and physically.  My doctor only prescribes 60 a month (2 a day)-- well... I'm taking 2 at a time!! more like 4 times a day.  I really need them sometimes, but on the other hand, I take them out of habit. So actually, I don't get "high" or even that euphoric feeling anymore, I don't get the "energy" I used to and I'm sure most of you people out there.. know what it's like to try and "find" your drug of choice when you run out. I'm 44 years old, have an 8 year old, and honestly can't get out of bed in the morning to dress her for school.  I do it, but always chewing a pill before I do. It's horrible.  So, it's a catch 22 no matter how you look at it. If I continue using the drug, I'll just need more and more, if I stop,, so will everything around me. I'm so tired of "counting" my pills and wondering where I'll get the next batch.
Can anyone relate?  Again, thanks so much, you've all been so nice!!         Jude.

[[e-mail]]

I can definetly relate. I am 32 years old with 2 children ages 5 and 7. I was taking vicodin es for 2 years. I also have chronic pain. I was taking 15-20 a day. When i became truley desperate I pretended I was a Dr. and called in my own script. I was arrested when I went to pick it up. That was my bottom. I had tried out-patient detox before the arrest but it didnt work for me. I feel I have to mention that my husband is a state trooper so you can imagine how I felt when he came to get me at the police station. I immedietly admitted to my husband for the first time that I was out of control. I always wanted to tell him and wanted him to help me but I didnt think he or anyone else would understand. I tried tapering many many times. Deep down I knew I had to go inpatient but would never think twice about it because it wasnt possible. How could I leave my children? My husband has to work, who would take care of them? What would I tell them? Well after I was arrested I knew enough was enough. What good to my children am I like this? No one knew I was using until I was arrested. I functioned. My using never affected anyone. If it did they would know I was using. WRONG! My using affected my marriage, my children my friends my whole life. Maybe it wasnt totally out of control like a drunk staying out all night or coming home and beating the kids. And maybe I didnt lose anything like alot of money or my home. Looking back now I can see it all very clear. "Mommy can you play this game with me?" my five yr old would ask. "Not now mommys tired" And she would walk away head down mumbiling "your always tired" Addmiting that my using affected my children is one of the hardest things for me to admit. I always thought of myself a a great mother. If I was putting something in my mouth that would afect my children I would never do it. So I though. It also affected my marriage. Lack of closeness. I didnt want to get to close because with him being a cop I thought he would see that I was high. He thought I didnt love him anymore. Realizing that, broke my heart. So anyway, I checked myself in to an in-patient program. It killed me to be away. But something that I thought would never happen did. They managed without me. But the biggest thing is I am 35 days clean today. And that my friends, I thought would NEVER happen. So my point is you need help, support and love from your family and friends. Until you tell them whats going on you are not serious about getting clean. I know I have been there.

[from me to steve]

Steve, what is robaxin? And how does it help with withdrawals? I've been addicted to lortab for several years. have finally reached the point where I'm having problems getting it. Dr. has cut me off and friends are sick of me asking for "something for a headache" or "something for a backache" My doctor has mentioned giving me robaxin for leg cramps but I never filled the rx. if it will help me through these withdrawals I'll fill it tomorrow! Please tell me how this drug has helped!

[steve]

Robaxin is a non narcotic muscle relaxer. It will help will muscle spasms and aches, it also will mellow you out a little, so you can sleep. You also should get Clonidine, that is a blood pressure piil, but will help you sleep also, the two combined help me relax somewhat.

[Brighty to Kacey]

Thanks... I sure will look at your website recommendation. However it is incorrect that this forum cannot be posted to... anyone can post comments and replies  at any time. It is true that this forum accepts a limited number of questions per day. Personally I find this site less chaotic than some others.

[joedice]

hi  everyone i really want to thank all of you for the info you share, i guess were in the same ole boat together going in circles for ansewers,,i have been addicted to every pain pill there is..its (10) years now  and i,m still fighting to get off of them. its like a rollor coaster ride or a lite switch off for a few and right back on.the longest i have been off them in ten years is 48 straight days , then  i go back on again. , well all i can say is it is one hell of a time getting off. well i just will have to try again and hopefully we can all make it.. were all in this thing together and we understand each other..  good luck to everyone of us...have a good nite and a better day tomorrow.....joe......

[tom to Dr Steve et al]

Dr Steve,

As a 25-year rx narcotic addict, I have a question for you:

Although AA/NA/CA is the only coping organization I know, and I probably owe them my life and freedom, I find myself at odds with their “all or nothing” approach to recovery.  I wonder how many others on this forum feel the same way.

I understand that the nature of alcoholic relapse calls for a total-abstinance approach. The “just one drink” stories are blood curdling and undoubtedly accurate.

My case is complicated by an all-too real organic source of chronic mid-to-severe pain, a condition which according to all my doctors is permanent, and for which only Schedule III narcotics or above affords relief. I earn my living as a professional writer, a job I simply can’t do when I’m in pain. Relieving the pain for me becomes an economic survival issue, especially because I am sole support for an arthritis-disabled wife as well as putting my only son through college. Going on disability to become a helpless pain clinic patient while my family descends into poverty and despair is simply unacceptable. Therefore, I am obliged to control my pain by whatever means are available. This makes abstinence out of the question.

So I am left with the problem of how I use while still showing up for work and paying the bills. I am managing at the present time, but I’m still searching for a way to maintain a balance. There are times when I need to find the will-power to restrict my use, that is, “pull-up” from a heavier than necessary intake. I usually go to a few meetings and really do take some strength from communing with my fellow struggling addicts. This works, after a fashion.

AA’s total abstinence theme, as you can see, presents a problem for me in terms of honesty at meetings. The whole AA technique relies on honesty, as any treatment approach must. Rather than lying about my sobriety, I just try to avoid directly addressing it.

My question to Dr Steve and the forum itself is, how do other addicts deal with this conflict? I know I’m not alone in feeling this way. I also know there are other schools of thought that address this, but am not sure which ones  they are. Any constructive comments would be appreciated, from Dr Steve or anyone.

[barbara to pain and lortab]

As with alcoholics, there are no absolutes. There are many alcoholics, such as myself, that have other underlying physical or mental disorders that require medication.

My main beef with A.A. has always been with the holy rollers that say if you take any medication for any reason you are not sober. That is a bunch of hogwash!!!!!!

I am sure it is the same with addicts. Many, self medicate for other physical or mental problems that need to be controlled to function well in life.

You need to see a good addiction psychiatrist to address your concerns with your continuing pain and physical or mental problems.

Don't believe the all or nothing routine unless it directly involves the alcohol or particular drugs you are addicted to. There are other medications that can solve those other problems!

[Brighty to Tom]

Your comments are a serious reminder that pain is a cruel and debilitating condition. I am not an addict and I come here to learn since I live with an addiction in my family and am trying to cope and be supportive. I really hope you can get your question answered because there are many of us who are curious about AA and NA philosophies. Have you considered that maybe you do not need to be in "recovery" if you have a legitimate medical condition that requires the use of these drugs? Rational Recovery and Smart Recovery are support and recovery systems that do not use the same phislosophies of AA and NA. You can find them on the web.I also think your question is really excellent as to the concerns of those with chronic pain. I am not certain but I think there are pain management physicians who specialize in both the relief and addiction aspects of pain. I have heard that brain chemicals called TIQ's that are released when pain is present and the use of narcotics has a different effect when TIQ's are there. I have no clue about the facts... it's just something I have heard of and maybe you could research.  I think you need to ask your question in the "Post a Question" box when you enter the forum. There is also a related forum called headdocs.com and the same doctor Steve who replies here participates there. Also there are alot more doctors answering questions in much more depth than here. The replies are much better than the abbreviated ones the doctor gives here. I hope to see the answer to your question as well. Best to you, Brighty

[Brighty to Barbara and Tom]

Hi... go to the archive and find "short term periodic relapse". It's a reply to someone who asked something similar. I realize it's not a direct reply to your concerns but it touches on the subject somewhat. You may or may not agree.. it's just something I came across. Best wishes, Brighty

[Brighty to Barbara and Tom]

OOOPs.. it was titled "short term periodic relapse" and is found by going to "archive" then choose "drugs".

[gretchen britt]

what are the sideafect of getting off vicadin. and how long do they last,

[gbritt5.aol.com]

how do i get off the vicoden i am so scared, but do not have a choise....help...

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

The good news is withdrawal won't kill you, it just feels rather crappy.  If you read the postings throughout this board you will see recommendations on tapering, drugs to help with withdrawal symptoms, etc.  Also, if you can afford it you might want to seek outpatient treatment through a clinic, hospital or addiction doctor.  Good luck.  P.S.  If you don't think you can taper down on your own, seek a doctor or program using buprenorphine.  It is a rather amazing detox drug for most people and (I know from personal experience) can get you off the narcotics with little or no withdrawal.

[bob]

Brian can you tell me any more about this amazing drug buprenorphine? I have been taking 100 mg of oxycontin since september. I didnt start out with that much but my tolerance sure has gone up. I tryed clonadine once in january after i tapered down to 30 mg a day. I ran out of the med at 30mg and the doc said its time to call it quits and you cant have anymore. At that point I went cold turkey and was sicker than i have ever been in my life. I made it for three weeks without anything but clonadine. Everyone was happy for me right up until I threw the towell in and scored oxy on my own. I cant imagine how I made it for 22 days I was so tired and sore and depresed.Last week I read about this clinic in Florida that is using the drug you mentioned with great success.I live in Philadelphia and will be 50 years old this week. Have you or anyone ever heard of someone my age getting of opiates.Do you think I could find a doc or clinic that works with buprenorphine thanks for reading my rambling thoughts Bob

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

More people than you can ever imagine have the same problem at 50 and later in life.  Addiction crosses all age, race, economic and other barriers.  I have good news for you.  100mg of oxy a day may seem like a lot, but I was able to get off of close to 300 mg. per day.  Buprenorphine may well be the answer for you.  You are fortunate in that there are several doctors and programs using buprenorphine in your area.  The best thing to do would be to taper down as far as you can comfortably go with the oxy, then when you are about to go into withdrawal, you start the buprenorphine.  The buprenorphine will replace the oxy on your opiate receptors, and because it is both an agonist and antagonist, it will reduce or eliminate withdrawal while being much easier to withdraw from.  Since it is a relatively new use for the drug, no consensus exists regarding the protocol for its use.  Some docs provide numerous injections for many weeks.  Others use the drug within a matter of a few days to detox patients.  You can call rehab centers and addiction docs in your area for more info.  You can also call Dr. Gooberman in NJ, at [phone] or go to www.detox-center.com.  He only gives you three dosages of buprenorphine, although they are strong dosages.  It worked for me when I was using about 15-20 10mg. hydrocodone per day.  For you, you may need more.  Colleagues tell me that a Dr. Kuen Chen in NJ will prescibe 10 dosages of bup. for $100.00 (the Florida program you mention charges $1,000.00).  Dr. Chen's number is 1-973-482-1242.  Insurance will not pay any of these bills.  Finally, many detoxes will leave you "sore and depressed" once they are over.  I'm not sure this can be avoided in some people, especially with heavy usage of opiates.  Keep in mind that even methadone only keeps addicts from avoiding withdrawal until you decide to get off of it.  Then you feel worse than you would have if you had just withdrawn from your other opiate.  So, some pain may be inevitable.  Good luck.

[bob]

I want to thank you for your info Brian Im going to call Dr goobermans office next week. I have already started tapering and I have gotten down from 100 to 80 for the last two days. I havent noticed much differance and in two days I will try for 70mg. It was kind of you to provide phone numbers along with the good advice Thanks again Bob

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

You're quite welcome.  Good luck, I know you can do it.  Post and let us know how you are from time to time.  Brian

[bob]

Brian I was wondering if you could tell me how a person feels after taking buprenorphine. I will be going for a consultation with Dr Goobermans office soon.I dont know if I can work under the influence of this drug or not. They told me on the phone that I should not take any opiates after midnight and I will be given my wakeup in his office (bup.)Also does this drug help more than clonadine? Im sorry to keep asking questions but im starting to get scared. I have been tapering IM down from 100mg oxycontin to 50mg per day. I dont feel I can go any lower. What I really need to know is how will I FEEL while im on buprenorphine. Thankyou for all your help Bob

[Brian to Bob]

Buprenorphine, in the dosage Dr. Gooberman prescribes, will perhaps make you feel tired.  There is no real euphoria or "high" from the drug.  There are no major side effects other than the fatigue.  It works FAR better than clonidine because buprenorphine is an opiate, while clonidine is a hypertensive.  You can work while taking buprenorphine.  By the way, Gooberman's deal is he gives you three pre-loaded syringes filled with 1.0 mg buprenophine and tells you to take 1 every 24 hrs. or more if needed.  What I did was to have extra syringes, then I took 1.0 the first 24 hrs., .8 the 2nd day, .6 the third, .4, etc.  I found this to be a very effective way to taper the buprenorphine.  If you want more information about why buprenorphine is used for detox, see some of my postings to Brighty on this page.  Finally, Dr. Gooberman will also prescribe clonidine for after the buprenorphine is gone, as well as Baclofen for muscle twitching, etc.  If you have any more questions, post them.  Good luck!

[bob]

Brian I thought I would thank you again for your info on buprenorphine. Today is my second day using it and I still have no bad withdrawl. I went to the clinic saturday and started sunday morning. I was able to go to work today with no problems aside from a few cold sweats. Tomorrow (tuesday) will be the end of that med and I switch to clonadine and a muscle relaxer if necessary on wednesday. I still have a fear that my first day without bup will come on like gangbusters. I guess being ill can not be avoided I have used opiates for a long time. Im really looking forward to beating this. I just cant believe I havent taken a pill since saturday at 5 pm and im still doing well. thanks again Bob

[bp]

I quit taking OxyContin 1 month ago and I gave up. I don't have chronic pain but I just love taking them when I go out and party! Nothing is better than a nice 40mg Oxy on a weekend night. I have stopped taking them at work of everyday but just once or twice on the weekends! I love the feeling, the ambition, the positive attitude and all that! LONG LIVE OXY's!!

[Looking for Lori for advice on police]

Please, please, please reply.  I really need some advice regarding the consequences for falsifying narcotic prescriptions.  I think I am getting ready to be involved in an arrest.  I, like some of you, was desparate and living my Percocet HELL.  Only, I am still in this HELL.  I started needing more and more and began writing prescriptions for myself.  I have NO idea how much longer I would have gone on taking them.  I have let it take over my life.  I am getting married to a wonderful man next weekend and going to Jamaica for a week.  And what do you think I have been thinking about?  How to get enough percocet to last me while away!!  I am so ashamed.  I started getting sloppy and this morning I was confronted by 2 police officers when going to pick up "my sick mother's" medicine.  I am a successfull woman with a professional, public job.  I have been hiding my addiction for years; denying it.  Only in the last 3 or months have I resorted to doing something against the law.  Now, the officers took down my contact information and said a detective would be contacting me soon with questions.  I told them I had no idea what was going on.  They were really nice and did not detain me, but now I am scared to death.  I'm a bundle of nerves and my poor fiancee has no idea what a miserable lying addicted woman he is marrying next week.  I really am a good person, with a horrible problem that started with genuine pain. Now, it's only addiction.  Please, anyone who has been through this, particularly the illigel part, reply to this with advice.  Thank you for listening.

[Commeted by Allen Saturday 7/22]

I got released from th e hospital on friday. I had bee on 15 mg morfine 5-6 times a day. I was als0 on 1500 mldg 0f  roboxin. I have bee to chiropractor. I get some relief  I AT MY witts ends. I have slept 14 hrs in 3 week. NO lie.  I don't know where to turn

Al

[someone]

Hi well after reading all of your stories I dont think I will take another percoset again. I have been taking between 1-3 a day for about 2 months now. Thanks all for shareing these stories I hope it helps you to know that you helped me out!THANK  YOU!!!

Renae

[debbie]

My comment or question to anybody is: When there is definate chronic pain that needs to be relieved, what do you do if you do not use a medicine that relieves it.  My husband has used percoset for many many years, I am sure he is addicted brcause they are addicting,but I never hear a solution that solves the pain. If you take away the pain relief-you have the pain-if you take the pill you are addicted,  I ubderstand there can be devastating side effects, we live with them, my husband is ready to drop from complete exhaustion, side effects,inly an hour of sleep per day at the most for the past 3 years.  But what is the solution? No pain relief-lots of misery,either way lots of misery. Anybody suffering like this or have any solutions?

[Melissa]

I did a report in school on Kidney Failure and here is the fact that I came across.  All pain killers and muscle relaxers destroy you kidneys.  Your kidneys are one of your most vital organs.  Your kidneys clean your blood and when your kidneys stop functioning, you have two choices:

1. Go home on hospice and wait about 7-10 to die.

2. Get dialysys treatments 3 times a week for 4 hours a day.  This is when you are hooked up to a machine that cleans your blood.  

THIS IS A WARNING TO EVERYONE WHO IS USING THESE TYPE OF NARCOTICS.  95% OF YOU WILL END UP THIS WAY IF YOU DON'T STOP TAKING THOSE RIDICULOUS PILLS.  NO PAIN, NO GAIN.

[Jo NYC]

I am currently in my fourth day of self imposed withdrawal and detox off Vicodin.  I've been taking them for amlost two years now.  Started out to help a bad shoulder, ending up running and ruining my life.  Counting pills every day, juggling doctors and pharmacists, distancing myself away from my loved ones and co-workers.  I don't have to tell any of you who have been there how it is.  Taking those pills was making me sicker and sicker until I couldn't take it anymore and I decided that was IT!  I threw them all down the toilet, and I got over the chemical need for it, but the detox of my system has been HORRIFIC.  I wish I had known about those other medications that help.  I even went to the hospital emergency room hoping they'd think I was a regular drug addict od'ing and shoot me up with Narcan and then let me sleep it off for a few hours.  That shortens the detox time alot.  But I couldn't convince them.  I'm still feeling lousy, but I'm going to make it and I cannot wait to have that poison out of my system forever.  I wish all of you the best of luck and success in your same quest.  Anyone feel free to e-mail at ***@****.

[pirateluv]

does anyone know any dr.'s in the northeast philadelphia area that can give me bupernorphine or suboxone. i have been addicted to opiates for about 3 years and its ruining my life. i feel like a slave to the drugs. i cant function w/ out taking some type of opiate. i started of being prescribed vicodin and tylenol 4 for pain. if i took the usua dose it wouldnt help. i'd be doubleing and tripleing up on the dosages...taking 5 at at time brings me comfort. where as 1 pill leaves me still  in pain. now i am so addicted. if i dont have any pills to take i just stay in bed and hope to find a way to get more. i'll do oxycontin, liquid morphine, percocets,fentanyl, even heroin just so i wont be sick. i tried going thru withdrawl and i cant do it i can not stand it for ore than a few hours into it and it is impossible to sleep. i've been like a hermit because my friends call me to go out like we used to aand i always have an excuse why i cant make it. afraid to just tell them that if i ran out of pills i'd be to sick to be out w/ them. only the people i buy drug from know how badly i'm addicted. my dr. who was prescribing me the pills for all this time retired in dec. 07 and didnt reffer me to anyone else who can take care of this problem either to taper me off or detox me. rght on the prescriptin paperwork it clearly stats do not just stop taking this mediction (medication). well then i ask what now am i supposed to do? find another doctor who is willing to prescribe them and continue this vicious cycle or can anyone tell me how to go about getting the suboxone? becos i'e tried methadone and the withdrawl from that is even worse than oxycontin withdrawl. please help.its ruining my friendships and relationships and family life. soon i'm afraid my co workers will be on to me too?
thanks,

[toxictome]

This is an old thread...copy it and post it as a new question...you may get overlooked here....you will get more replies if you repost it!
welcome to the forum.