Vicoden Cravings

[Shea]

Hi all,

I desperatly need some advise.I have been clean from the Vicodens for about 5 weeks. I don't seem though to be to the point some of you are, like WW where you are really feeling good. But then I never felt as though they were hindering me. I functioned GREAt on them. I was energetic and fun to be around. And I didn't feel numb, actually I felt more passionate about everything when using Vics. So I can't look back on anything negative about how it made me feel. But I can look back on how ashamed I felt by the lying to so may doctors to obtain them. Anyhow, I did start feeling better when I started using Thomas's Recipe although I still had the cravings. So..here is my question and please I GREATLY appreciate your replys. The last few days I have seemed to revert. I am constantly tired and fatigued. And the cravings are incredible. That is all I think about. I don't think I will relapse but it is hard to fight. I am just not sure why I feel like I have taken 10 steps backwards. Is this too post acute withdrawls? Thank you for all your help and support.
I hope and Pray you are all strong in this time of national turmoil.

Shea

[Witchywoman]

Hi Shea,
You are clean longer than I am, so I don't know if I'll be hit with the same intensity of fatigue again down the line.
I know that the past three days I've been hit with intense cravings. It has been really hard to fight.  I've dealt with it by again deciding to go on an hour by hour basis, as well as reminding myself how much better I feel now and what hell I was feeling before.

I remember when I was using, before my back surgery, that the meds would make me feel great for about an hour, then there was a slow decline, till I felt nauseaus and drained. I don't want to go back there.

Shea, I truly think the thing that has made me feel better has been the addition of the 5 HTP to my supplement regime. Until I added that, I was plagued by heavy duty depression.  Have you tried taking that yet?

Maybe others here have more info to offer..
But hang in there..I have to work hard to keep the Dragon at bay these days...it keeps whispering that now that my tolerance is low, I could do it just once in a while to have a thrill and it would be fine...I am pretty sure that for me, it would not be fine, and in no time I'd be right back where I was, and I'm not going back there. Nuh uh. No way. Be damned Dragon Demon!

love,
WW

[to doc dan from joe]

I just want everyone to be aware that too much 5-HT can lead to a condition called serotonin syndrome (esentailly an overdose of serotonin in the brain).  It charaterized by a host of symptoms (just plug serotonin+syndrome into any search engine).  Apparently you can get serotonin syndrome by using too much L-tryptophan(which is nearly chemically identical to 5HT) I just want everyone who is using 5HT to be aware what the symptoms are in case you start to manifest them.  If there are any doctors or nurses on this forum, maybe you can comment on this

[Francoise]

I understand that too much serotonin producing supplements can cause the "serotonin cascade" which can be fatal.

Francois

[Witchywoman]

I got and just read the book by Dr Ray Sahelian about  5 HTP, and he includes a chapter on cautions with it.

This is what I learned:

Any substances that increases seratonin can potentially cause "seratonin syndrome" that in very very rare cases can lead to seizures and possibly death.
The amount of 5 HTP that the studies show cause seratonin syndrome were doses of 6,000 to 9,000 mgs per day for one month.  The doses that the research indicates help cure depression are only 300mgs per day. The ssri medications are far more likely to cause seratonin syndrome, and they rarely do. But, we need to be informed about all possibilites and it is always a good idea to be cautious.

Overall, 5 HTP appears much safer than the ssri meds.

Nevertheless, Dr. Sahelian recommends the following:

Keep doses of 5 HTP to the lowest dose possible that still gives an antidepressant effect. In most cases, this will be 100 mgs. per day, but some people need up to 300 mgs. per day.

Do not take 5 HTP daily longer than 3 months, in order to avoid developing a tolerance to it. He says after 3 months, take a two week to one month break from it. After this, it is safe to resume.

Do not take 5 HTP with any other seratonin increasing herb or medication, including St John's Wort, Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Celexa, Effexor, Wellbutrin, or any MAOI inhibitor, such as Nardil.

The book is an interesting read. Only six bucks through Amazon.com. The name of it is "5 HTP, Nature's Seratonin Solution" by Dr. Ray Sahelian. I recommend you read it if you are interested in taking 5 HTP for any length of time. He also gives excellent suggestions for other natural supplements, and how to take them safely.
He lives in Southern California, and has a medical practice in Santa Monica, so anyone lucky enough to live there could get a consultation with him. I'm actually thinking about flying down there to see him, since he reportedly treats chronic pain patients with a combination of medications and herbs and also has experience with helping addicts normalize brain chemistry.
Sounds like my kinda guy!

love,
WW

[Thomas]

Hi Shea,

Yes, you'll continue to have moments or interludes of cravings for the vics. Don't forget, after using for a long time you build up a store of "cues," psychological imprints, memories, associated with the activity and feelings of using. If you had a certain routine during which you liked to be high, it might help to avoid those activities or locales, people, movies -- whatever you associate with being high on vics.

Even still, you'll go through cravings from time to time anyway.

5 HTP may very well help, and you've got WW to guide you as far as safe dosages are concerned.

I suggest you try (as an alternative to the 5 HTP -- I'm not sure about combining the two) about 1500 mgs of L-Tyrosine and 100 mg of B6 when you get the cravings. That might be all you need. But don't forget about the cues. They're pretty much universal with drug addicts and alcoholics and take years to fade. Hope this helps.

Thomas

[PHILLYCHAD]

"chart my own course" sounds good Tom. The problem is my GPS has been down for like the last ten years so getting around is going to be a little tough! How is your battle been going? I hope all is well and if you can think of anything else PLEASE let me know. Chad

[katie r]

Well....we all knew I'd get my refill when the time came. The time is tomorrow....I've already called it in and will pick it up at 9:00am. Weak weak weak. This time I managed to stay off 7 days....relapsed when I "borrowed" 6 vicadins...then drove 45 minutes for 20 more. Now tomorrow I get a bottle of 100 10mgs. Can you believe I'm actually counting the hours. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!! WW?? I went to the web site of the author of the book you just got......his "FAQ's" page is interesting.
Also.....I'm not sure if this is the correct spelling for Ginna...or Gianna.....she answered one of my posts....gave me her email address and I emailed her and the email game back as wrong address. SHe is the one whose addiction ended up costing around $4000.00 for legal help. I would like to hear more of her story.......if she reads this...maybe she'll repost her address.Well folks....."no back bone" here is going to bed. Only 9 hours left.....GOD. I'm weak.

[Shea]

Hi all,

WW and Thomas..Thank you for your reply. It sounds like you have done a lot of research on seratonin. I am taking 5htp for about a couple weeks now. i take the 50mg twice a day. Also I am using thomas's Recipe..1500mg L-Tyrosine 100 mg B-6 magnesium zinc copper phosphorus. Do you think the combo of the 5htp and L-tyrosine could be too much. I will tell you the first week I felt a GREAT improvement. Also Thomas..makes a lot of sense what you said about the "cues"! the problem is I did everything while on Vicoden. EVERYTHING! I have been taking pain pills for like 24 years. Started young as did the surgeries. When I woke up I rolled over and took my pills. I already had them out of the bottle and waiting for me on the night stand. Along with the ones i took mid way through the night. about 3:00 a.m. Never really went more than 4 hours without taking more. sometime after 2 hours i felt "enough time". Anyhow, would you suggest I cut back on either the 5htp or the L-tyrosine?

Joec and Francoise..Thank you for the info on the 5htp. all pro's and con's are appeciated.

Phillychad..I don't know much about methodone from personal experience. But I do know what it is like to be in turmoil with an addiction. And I will pray you find an answer as I pray we all do. good Luck to you.

Katie r.. I personally think you are too hard on yourself. I believe as long as we exsert tons of energy BEATING ourselves up that is less energy we have to BUILD ourselves up. The more you beat yourself up the worse you feel about yourself. Then the more you want to numb those self- loathing feelings. I KNOW! I HAVE DONE IT FOR YEARS! On top of it loving opiates. If I could have used the creativity and energy I used on thinking of ways to get pills towards something constructive, wow i would be so far ahead.(and I had so many ways to get these pills) Maybe as you use this script, of course you'll be chillin  but maybe you can come up with a plan. Are you trying Thomas Recipe? Maybe if you start before it will help more getting it in your system for the next time you try to quit. IT IS NOT OUR FAILURE THAT COUNTS BUT OUR BRAVE ABILTY TO TRY.

Philly chad (again) No wonder you can't finish a post "I" probably use so much space writing so much then make you take pay the consenquences.
I will keep in shorter next time.

good Luck to you all....and thank you!

Shea

[Witchywoman]

Hi Shea,
Dr. Sahelian's book said that taking 5 HTP and L-Tyrosine together is not only safe, but a very good combination. The HTP boosts seratonin, while the Tyrosine boosts dopamine, both of which are involved in elevating mood.  

I've been taking 100mgs 5 HTP a day and between 1000 and 2000 mgs of L-Tyrosine, and feel this combination is working well.

As an anecdote, when I was still using the vics, when I took the L-Tyrosine, I felt horrible..wired, like I had drank way too much coffee. But now that I am clean, the L-Tyrosine just feels very calming, and gives me a relaxed alertness.


WW

[Witchywoman]

Hi Katie,
I just wanted to say that I agree with Shea. Beating yourself up for your addiction is part of the way the disease insidiously worms its way in. If you constantly berate yourself, you feel worse and worse about yourself and are much more likely to continue to need something outside yourself to make you feel good.

Try to just accept that you are in the middle of a very difficult battle, and that even if you are still using, as long as you are increasing awareness of how your addiction works, and how it affects you, you are still inching your way forward to claiming back as much of your light as you can.

I'm not an expert on addiction...but I am a fellow addict..and I know that what moved me from the "I'll never be able to stop using this stuff, and I'm not sure I want to" to being ready to be clean was the slow process of unconditional self love and acceptance.

Never give up hope.

The San Francisco memorial service was yesterday, and they had many different religious leaders speaking. When it was time for the Tibetan Budhist monk to speak, he said something very interesting.  First, he started by saying "I bow to the potentially enlightened being in all of you". Later he said that if we are to stop senseless world violence, we have to first stop by ending violence toward ourselves, which means treating ourselves with compassion. My take on that is..no self beration.  That is different from a good hard look at how our own behaviors hurt ourselves. But rather than say "weak, weak, weak" ..maybe say "addicted, addicted, addicted". As far as I know, addiction is not about weakness, it is about addiction. Very different thing.

my two cents..good luck Katie, you are not alone.

WW

[BRADD]

I READ THIS SITE ALMOST EVERYDAY JUST SO I KNOW IM NOT ALONE.  IM A POLICE OFFICER WHO IS ADDICTED TO PAIN KILLERS AND ALCOHOL.  I'VE BEEN CLEAN OFF OF PAIN KILLERS FOR A FEW MONTHS UP UNTIL ABOUT THREE WEEKS AGO.  I'VE BEEN OFF WORK FOR A MONTH DUE TO A BACK INJURY.  A FEW WEEKS AGO I WAS PRESCRIBED OXYCONTIN 80MG 1 PER DAY.  ALTHOUGH I LOVE THEM, TO MY SUPRISE, I'VE BEEN TAKING THEM AS PRESCRIBED.  THIS IS PROBABLY BECAUSE MY LAST EPISODE WITH PAIN KILLERS ( 15-20 LORTABS PER DAY FOR MONTHS)  I WENT THROUGH TERRIBLE WITHDRAWALS.  I'VE BEEN USING THOMAS'S RECIPE FOR TWO MONTHS AND DURING THIS TIME IVE BEEN ON OXYCONTIN.  ( 50MG ZINK, 200MG B-6, AND 4000MG L-TYROSINE) IM GOING TO QUIT THE OXYCONTIN TOMORROW,BECAUSE IM RUNNING OUT. I'M GOING TO SAVE 1 PILL, IN CASE OF EMERGENCY.  DO ANY OF YOU THINK I WILL GO THROUGH WITHDRAWALS FROM THE DOSE IVE BEEN TAKING FOR THE LAST FEW WEEKS? SINCE MY LAST EPISODE WITHDRAWALS, IM TERRIFIED OF THEM.  THATS WHY IVE BEEN TAKING THE OXYCONTIN, 80MG EVERY 24HRS JUST AS PRESCRIBED, INSTEAD OF MORE, LIKE I USUSALLY WOULD.  I CANT HANDLE WITHDRAWLS AGAIN.  PLEASE HELP !!!

[Witchywoman]

Hi Brad, and welcome to the forum! I often wonder how many people this site helps who we never get to meet. I'm glad you posted.

I don't know the answer to your question. It depends on how long oxy stays in your system. I will venture a guess that you may be in for withdrawals again, but I really don't know if once a day dosing of oxycontin causes physical dependance.
I know that once a day dosing of vicodin does not cause physical dependance. I know this because for about two years, I took vicodin only at night, never during the day, and just one dose.  I would at times skip several days, and sometimes up to a week, and never went through withdrawals (till I started to take it three to four times a day). A Doctor later told me that once a day dosing of vicodin won't cause dependance, because it leaves your system fast.
But oxy last longer in your system...it is time released, so I think it hits the receptors frequently.  

Even if you do go through withdrawals, I'm guessing that it won't be as intense as when you taking the 15 to 20 pills a day for a few months. I hope I'm right about that.

Please, let us know how you are doing, and lean on us for support. We all need each other.

love,
WW

[BRADD]

THANKS FOR REPLYING WW.  IF IM GOING TO GO THROUGH WITHDRAWALS, I SHOULD KNOW IN ABOUT 24 HOURS FROM MY LAST DOSE SHOULDN'T I ?  IF I DO, I WAS THINKING I COULD CUT THAT LAST PILL INTO QUARTERS AND JUST TAKE 20MG A DAY FOR 4 DAYS.  WOULD THAT HELP ?  I HAVE ABOUT 20 ULTRAM I COULD USE TO TAPER.  DO YOU THINK THAT WILL WORK. ALSO KEEP IN MIND, IVE BEEN ON THOMAS'S RECIPE FOR A COUPLE MONTHS AS WELL. IM SO AFRAID. MY LAST WITHDRAWALS WERE SO INTENSE I WANTED TO DIE.  LASTED 10 DAYS.  I HAVE TO GO BACK TO WORK IN 2 DAYS.  IM OUT OF SICK LEAVE.   THANKS BRAD.  IM SO GLAD YOU REPLIED.  I DIDN'T THINK I WOULD HEAR FROM ANYONE

[Witchywoman]

Hi again Brad,
I spoke to a Doctor friend of mine, he is a Psychiatrist, not a pain Doc, but..for what its worth, he said that you probably will not go through withdrawals, because you were taking it once a day, not twice, so your brain got a bit of a break from it, which he thinks is enough to not develop withdrawals when you go off it.

I hope for your sake he is right, but maybe some folks on this forum who know more about oxy than I do can give you more precise information.

But, I think your plan of taking just 20 mgs once a day might be more comfortable of a way to taper than to just suddenly stop. How bout you see what happens 24 to 36 after your last dose, and if you start to have withdrawals, that you take a tiny bit of oxy and taper down from there?
I don't know about using the Ultram to taper, I think it may help, but it is addictive in itself as well.

Someone here will always answer and help. I'm here a lot still, because I'm home recovering from back surgery and on the couch a lot  lol   soon I'll be returning to work, probably in a week or two.

I hope you keep posting Brad, it's nice to see you here, and we need you as much as you need us.

WW

[Kristen]

Hi Brad....I know what you mean about how horrible the withdrawals from hydrocodone are...I have never taken oxy's before, but I am thinking you are going to be OK....you may feel a little different, but I dont think it is going to be ANYTHING like taking 20 hydro's a day....I was taking about 30 10/325's a day and my withdrawals were unbearable....Maybe you could talk to your Dr. about your concerns and he could give you some better advice.  I know there are alot of people on this forum that use Oxy's for pain, so I'm sure someone will be able to help a little better than me....but you have definately come to a wonderful forum with kind, caring, compasionate people....Good luck and let us know how your doing!!  Kristen

[Gina]

Sorry Katie I will try again ***@****. The last time I think I forgot the 1. Hope to hear from you. BRAD-I HATE TO BE THE BEARER OF BAD NEWS BUT OXYS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ONE OF THE WORST THINGS TO GET OFF OF AND I'LL TELL YOU WHY...The longer the half life of a medication the more time it takes to go through withdrawl. What I mean is although you were taking them as prescribed you were still taking a very strong pain reliever for what? a month? You will more than likely experience some withdrawl. Sorry-just trying to prepare you. Good Luck--Can't you get that employee asisstance program? They pay you your salary while you go through detox/rehab? Or don't you want anybody to know?

[skipper]

Brad:
welcome to the forum! there is always room for one more addict!

about the oxy-contin:
it is very difficult to get off of. i currently am on 40mg three
times a day. i have the same worrys as you. why not discuss your
concerns with your doctor? after all, he perscribed them to you
in the first place.

i certainly hope this isn't the last we hear from you!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[BRADD]

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR REPLYING.  MY DOCTOR TOLD ME IT IS TIME TO STOP PAIN MEDICATION AND HE SAIS I PROPABLY WONT HAVE WITHDRAWAL.  I HAVE LITTLE FAITH IN HIM, HE HAS TOLD ME HE IS NOT AN ADDICTION MEDICINE SPEC.  NOR DOES HE KNOW ABOUT MY PRIOR ADDICTIONS.  I CANT LET MY WORK KNOW.  I'VE ALREADY BEEN DISCIPLINED FOR AN ALCOHOL RELATED INCEDENT. THEY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT MY ADDICTION TO PAIN KILLERS.  I WORK IN A BIG CITY AND I SEE HEROIN ADDICTS EVERY DAY. IM PROBABLY THE ONLY COP THAT FEELS SORRY FOR THEM.  I HATE MY JOB, BUT I HAVE TO SUPPORT MY FAMILY. IF MY WIFE KNEW IM ADDICTED TO PAIN KILLERS AGAIN, SHE WILL LEAVE ME.  I JUST HAVE TO GET THROUGH THIS WITHOUT WITHDRAWL. THE LAST WITHDRAWAL WAS UNBEARABLE, ( SWEATS, CRAMPS, VOMIT, DIARREA (diarrhea), FEVER, ) HOWEVER I WAS TAKING ALOT OF MEDS FOR NO OTHER REASON BUT TO GET HIGH.  THE DOCTOR I SEE NOW IS A CITY DOCTOR, AND I DONT FEEL COMFORTABLE TALKING TO HIM.  IF I COULD GET THE TIME OFF, I WOULD GO TO REHAB,  I ALREADY BLEW MY CHANCE FOR THAT FROM MY LAST INCIDENT.  YOU ALL ARE VERY KIND.  THANK YOU.  BRAD

[BRADD]

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR REPLYING.  MY DOCTOR TOLD ME IT IS TIME TO STOP PAIN MEDICATION AND HE SAIS I PROPABLY WONT HAVE WITHDRAWAL.  I HAVE LITTLE FAITH IN HIM, HE HAS TOLD ME HE IS NOT AN ADDICTION MEDICINE SPEC.  NOR DOES HE KNOW ABOUT MY PRIOR ADDICTIONS.  I CANT LET MY WORK KNOW.  I'VE ALREADY BEEN DISCIPLINED FOR AN ALCOHOL RELATED INCEDENT. THEY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT MY ADDICTION TO PAIN KILLERS.  I WORK IN A BIG CITY AND I SEE HEROIN ADDICTS EVERY DAY. IM PROBABLY THE ONLY COP THAT FEELS SORRY FOR THEM.  I HATE MY JOB, BUT I HAVE TO SUPPORT MY FAMILY. IF MY WIFE KNEW IM ADDICTED TO PAIN KILLERS AGAIN, SHE WILL LEAVE ME.  I JUST HAVE TO GET THROUGH THIS WITHOUT WITHDRAWL. THE LAST WITHDRAWAL WAS UNBEARABLE, ( SWEATS, CRAMPS, VOMIT, DIARREA (diarrhea), FEVER, ) HOWEVER I WAS TAKING ALOT OF MEDS FOR NO OTHER REASON BUT TO GET HIGH.  THE DOCTOR I SEE NOW IS A CITY DOCTOR, AND I DONT FEEL COMFORTABLE TALKING TO HIM.  IF I COULD GET THE TIME OFF, I WOULD GO TO REHAB,  I ALREADY BLEW MY CHANCE FOR THAT FROM MY LAST INCIDENT.  YOU ALL ARE VERY KIND.  THANK YOU.  BRAD

[Thomas]

the only other "thing" I can thik of is this: it's a lot better to occassionally fall off the wagon with the OxyContin than to be bound to a daily dose of methadone from a clinic every damn morning. The methadone will also not be enough to get you high, just enough to keep you from using something else. I'd rather get a once a month vicodin "windfall," enjoy the blissfull hell out of it for a few days, then stay clean the rest of the month. It's cheaper, safer, and every time you do get some vics, it's really very much like the first time. It's funny, but as long as i know that I've got that once a month vic treat coming, I can enjoy the "normal" things of life while quietly waiting for the little horns to sprout from my head, the pointed tail to push its way out the back of my pants, and of course, an excuse to wear my red cape and pitchfork.

[Thomas]

Hi Shea my friend,

I don't know of any reason why you should discontinue the 5HTP while you're on the L_Tyrosine. 5 HTP is an amino acid and is not an SSRI drug. To my knowledge, the only warning I've seen is about taking SSRIs with the L-Tyrosine. 5 HTP is the immediate precursor to serotonin, while SSRIs interfere with your brain's ability to re-absorb the serotonin it's produced. From what WW said, the dread serotonin cascade only occurs at much, much higher doses than the 100mg 3 times a day standard for 5 HTP. If you're doubtful, by all means ask a doctor or psychiatrist. Considering you're using the vics, and L-Tyrosine restores the neurotransmitters depleted by narcotic use, I'd keep up with the LTyrosine until I felt replenished then I'd switch over to the 5 HTP and see how I felt.

[jennyfla]

Hi Brad,
I truly feel for you!!!  It must be very difficult for you being addicted in your type of job.  At least you have a heart, and you've been on the other side.  It can only make you a much stronger, better person because of it, look at it that way!!!
We addicts are not 'bad' people, we are only human, and humanbeings sometimes fall into things that get out-of-hand very quickly!!!
I've always said that addicts are really the 'best' people because what usually gets us into the whole drug mess to begin with, is we just 'feel' too much sometimes.  It's an easy trap to fall into, you are far from alone!!!
Ask your dr for help, and if you find yourself in withdrawal, maybe he can give you something else to ease the discomfort.  Try to ease off of them gently if you are ready to take this step!!!  Also, try to get some counseling so you can better understand your feelings behind your addiction!!!
Best of luck to you!!! We're here for you!!!
Lv Jenny

[Gina]

The only problem with you theory is one must have a lot of self discipline to only use one time a month. Discipline is something we addicts don't usually have in abundance. The disease is progressive and each time you fall off the wagon it takes half of the time to drop as low as last time. We kid ourselves into thinking we can use a little or recreationally, but damned if we still don't try and figure how to do it. If we put all that energy we use to try and figure out how to use successfully we could win the Nobel Prize. But, seriously, I have been told that I may know I am an addict in my head but until I feel it in my heart I will never get better. I would rather take my methadone everyday and feel "normal" than slip every now and then and feel like ****. I beat myself up when I fall even though I know we are not supposed to do that. I am tired of the rollercoaster ride. I remember when I first tried pain pills, I loved the feeling but when they were gone that was it-no biggie at the time. I wish I could return to that time in my life cause that's when it's time to nip it in the butt. Ahhhh-hindsight, what a shame it comes afterwards!!!! Take care my drug loving buddy!!!

[BRADD]

HI EVERYONE, FOR WHAT ITS WORTH, I'VE GONE 27 HRS NOW WITHOUT AN OXY. NO WITHDRAWAL, JUST A SLIGHT MENTAL CRAVING.  I FEEL GOOD, DONT THINK IM GOING TO GO THROUGH WITHDRAWAL.  MAYBE I WAS JUST PARANOID SINCE MY LAST EPISODE WITH HYDRO. TO BE HONEST, I THINK USING THOMAS'S RECIPE DURING THE TIME I WAS ON THE OXY HELPED.  I THOUGHT I WOULD BE REAL TIRED AND DEPRESSED TODAY, BUT I FEEL PRETTY GOOD.  WE'LL SEE HOW LONG I CAN STAY CLEAN THIS TIME.  THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH, AND I WILL CONTINUE TO READ FOR SUPPORT. USUALLY IT DOESNT TAKE LONG FOR THE MENTAL CRAVINGS TO GET THE BEST OF ME.   BRAD

[butterbean]

Hi everyone.  I left a message on 9-19-01, but, left it under vicodin cravings.  It was pretty long, so if you will scroll down on the forum, you can find it.  I know I should have left it here, but, that was the place I found first.  Well, it has been a week exactly since I took my last pill, and I promised all kinds of things, but, am afraid when I can get that perscription filled next friday, that I will.  I never thought I would get addicted to anything, and it breaks my heart, but, it makes me become the person I would always have liked to be.  I was an extreme introvert, shy, etc. and with these pills, I am not.  Of course, I think sometimes I could take just enough for the pain, but, always take more .  I don't want to have this chronic pain, but, I don't want to be an addict either.  Any comments would be greatly appreciated.  I am a professional and am afraid that someday I will be found out.  One thing I do know is that I can do more and accomplish more when taking these meds for my chronic pain.  I used to hurt so bad until I started taking them.  That is why I am afraid to give them up.  I don't want to go back to all that pain.
Butterbean

[Witchywoman]

Hi butterbean,
Well, when I read your words, I felt as if I was reading my own story...except I am guessing that you have not been on the pills as long as I had been. I had been on them for four or five years, I've lost count.

I too am a professional, who fell into the trap of addiction after being prescribed opiates for chronic back pain. Like you, the pills brought me out of my shell, made me more social, gave me energy, let me accomplish so much more. Until eventually they drained me, made me withdraw from my husband and friends, and lured me into a silent, lonely, hopeless and depressed state. I was barely eating because I wanted a stronger effect from the meds, so kept my stomache empty in order to get higher. I'd wake up in the middle of the night and take the pills I had left out on the nightstand to stave off the middle of the night withdrawals.

The first part of my journey toward recovery was an attempt to learn how to take the meds appropriately for pain, without taking more to chase that high (the high that gets more and more elusive the more you take them).  I kept failing at that. I knew that I had no idea how much pain I was really in without the meds and had to find out, to see if I honestly really needed them.

so, with the help of the fine folks here, I withdrew from them, about a month ago.  I found out that I can manage my pain, mostly, without narcotics.  To be honest, my pain cycles..sometimes it is low, sometimes really high. I probably could benefit from taking the narcotics every now and then when the pain spike is high, but..I know I can't handle that without following those pills back into the hell they had lured me into.

However, you may very well need the pills for your pain, like many do.  If so, you are in wonderful company. This forum is full of great people who have chronic pain as well as addiction, and they can give you lots of support and advice about how to live with your situation. Don't suffer in pain needlessly, but ask yourself what you feel your next step is in the process of managing your addiction. You'll hear the answer, deep in your belly probably. Maybe it is to learn how to take what you need just for pain, maybe it is to just stay where you are and gain more awareness, maybe something completely different.
Either way, we are here, to welcome and support you in any way you need.

keep us posted!

WW

[butterbean]

Thank you so much WW.  I am doing much of what you say.  I keep telling myself I will only get enough from my doctor for the extreme pain that I have about a week out of every month.  Why do we do this to ourselves?  I guess because we feel we are lacking in something???  I know I have felt much of this all my life, but, I do have bad pain.  I am middleaged and have had this pain for 23 years and only have been on vicodin for 6 years!  I used to miss so much work because of the pain.  I would be laid up for about a week each month, but, n ow I can do anything almost I want to do!  should I try to take them only when needed??  That is a question I continue to ask myself when I want to decide if I should stop completely. Can I live with this pain???   I really don't want too, but, I don't want to think of myself as an addict!  Am I an addict because I need these pills to make my body not hurt.  Thank you so much for your support.  I hope all of you are doing well, and I will be glad to answer any questions you have.
Butterbean

[Witchywoman]

butterbean, if you need the pills to deal with extreme pain, then you need the pills.  As I see it, no one should have to suffer with extreme pain when there is medecine that can give you the quality of your life back.

May I ask what kind of pain you have, and what the cause of it is?

If I get to the point where my pain is so extreme that I absolutely need the narcotic to have a decent quality of life, what I will do is ask my husband to hold the meds for me, and to give me the right amount at the right time. I would have to do it this way, because I know that I would likely fail at manageing the meds without abusing them. Is there someone in your life who could do this for you, if you decide this would be an approach to try? What about asking your Doc for a duragesic patch? Those are impossible to abuse and deliver a constant steady dose of medicine to ease the pain.


It is an incredibly hard task to deal with taking pain meds for pain when you are an addict.  Go easy on yourself, don't beat yourself up for liking the way the pills make you feel...nature designed them that way, and the pharmeceutical industry tweaked them that way, and being a human, you are just as vulnerable as the rest of us to addiction. Some lucky people aren't. Go figure!

I hope you decide to hang out with us for a while. If you keep posting, get to know some of the folks here, and just talk about what is going on for you, I guarentee you will learn a lot, get support, and hopefully figure out what steps you can take to get where you want to be.  Do you have a therapist to talk to about this, or a 12 step support group? Those can help a lot as well.

love,
WW

[Gina]

I just thought I would let you know that, unfortunately, you can abuse the duragesic patch. I'm sure I am not the only one who knows that and I wouldn't dare think of posting how but I do agree they are more difficult to abuse than pills and they are very strong so they work very well for some people. It's a constant supply of medicine without having to stop and take pills every few hours. It is a sort of freedom but they are addictive just from using as prescribed. Maybe I should say they can cause one to become physically dependent since addiction is more of a state of mind, right? It's funny that the patches are the drug Fetynal which is supposed to be even stronger than morphine and yet that is what my newborn daughter was given after her operation. That was the first time I ever heard of the drug. Is that what is used in an epidural for labor pains? For that medicine to be so powerful and to be able to give it to a day old baby blows my mind.

[Witchywoman]

Doh!  I didn't realize there was a way to abuse that patch..
LOL  oh well..I'm also the one who was given tons of oxycontin and couldn't figure out what all the fuss was about, 'cause it didn't give me nearly the high that the hydrocodone did. LOL
I didn't know that you had to crush them!

I'm glad I never found that out about oxy though...that could have made things even harder..

love,
WW

[BRADD]

Well I guess I spoke a little too soon.  Im not having real bad withdrawals, but the insomnia is killing me. Especially since I have to work.  I broke down and went to a doctor today and made up an injury.  He gave me what I wanted, ( lortab 7.5/ 650 ) only 20.  Im just going to take one every 8 hrs. Maybe a better way to get off the oxy I've been taking.  Seems like this is a never ending cycle.  When I cant sleep at night, I get up so depressed in the morning.  I got up last night and drank 4 beers and a 1/2 pint of vodka just to go back to sleep.  It didn't really work.  I cant take anymore time off work, and I really dont know what to do.  Maybe if I just take these lortabs  slowly ( not to get high. ) and keep tapering my dose, I wont have such a problem.  Maybe if I could just have A life time supply of oxy everything would be ok. ( just kidding. ) Dont know if anyone cares, but i thought I would just give you guys an update about the policeman/drug and alcohol addict.  thanks for being there.   P.S.  reading this forum is the highlight of my day.  bradd

[BRADD]

Hey Butterbean, did you name yourself after the boxer.? I love that guy, He's the greatest.  just curious.  brad

[susanlea]

Yes...you can abuse the patch.  It's not even difficult to do.  When my ex came by a few months ago he asked me for pills.  I said sorry guy,  I nolonger take them, I use the patch instead.  He sat on the couch reading the insert.  I went to the bathroom before he left.  The next day I went to change my patch, and 3 were gone.  I decided to read the insert myself.  I know what he did, and I am sure he had one hell of a high.  I guess if an addict needs the buzz, they will find a way to abuse anything.  All I know is it helps me tremendously, I don't have to take the oxy's anymore.  I stopped them after over 2 years.  No withdrawals at all.  Just stopped, but of course I swallowed my pills, never chewed or snorted, and usually took less than perscribed.  I feel much safer on the patch, and I never ever....you know Gianna.....Love you all....Susan

[Witchywoman]

Hi Brad,
Of course we care...I was wondering how you were doing.

Don't be too hard on yourself, just keep your eyes on the goal of eventual freedom.

We are here for you anytime, no matter what.

love,
WW

[cindi]

Hi Brad, and welcome to the forum..I'm sorry I just now read you rpost,,I too am a professional....a Nurse busted twice...had 12 felonies against me but i received treatment in lieu of conviction...my dad is a police officer...and of course not real happy with his daughter when all of this happened but he didn't understand..he does now..he has made himself understand...I left nursing to get away from the drugs but still i get them....for chronic pain  unbearable at times..but we all care about you and here on this forum we are like one big family,,,never judging (most of us that is) can I ask you if you go to any 12 step meetings,,do you have a support system?  Things will work out for you..there have been nights i have sat up on this forum all night because I was so much in a badplace and they were here for me......hang in there and remember we are here for you    love to all  cin

[BRADD]

Hi Cindi, nursing must be a hard profession for people like us.  Ive gotten lots of pain pills from a nurse friend of mine.  Hope she never gets busted.  I never tried a 12 step program.  I guess I need to.  How awful it must have been for you to get arrested.  My best friend, ( a police officer ) Was just arrested for possession for sales of anabolic steroids. ( could get 4 years in prison ) He doesnt even sell steroids, he just uses them.  Loosing your career can cause great stress.  Anyway, thanks for replying to my post.  I love this forum.  That danny-guy or whatever his name is ( the one so critical of Thomas ) is a moron if he doesnt  think this forum helps people. Based on his statements, I would doubt that  he is any kind of professional.  Thank you all for being there and letting me know Im not the only functional addict in the world.  brad

[butterbean]

Hi Bradd, no I didn't get that name any particular place, just made it up to use on this forum.  Hope everyone is doing well.  I have been off all meds for 10 days now, but, don't know if I can stay off as my pain is bad now. I am going to try to stay off or cut back.  Good luck to you Bradd!  To you and to WW , I am not in any program, afraid to do that as I have to think about my career.  I function very well on the meds anyways, except when I go through withdrawal when I have taken more than the persribed dosage.  I am alone, divorced, so I really have no support to help me with this.  Doing it alone, but, I can do it!  I know I can!  Take care.
Butterbean

[cindi]

The first time I was in trouble they had a hard time with the amount of drugs i was using...not understanding my tolderance was astronomical they tried to get me for trafficking....i told thme I was much to stingy with my drugs to sell them...I needed them for me..pissed them off even more..they wanted me bad for trafficking....that would have definately meant my nursing license....which I still have....the second time I was caught it was for a minimal amount but the laws changed and I had to be turned over to the big guys immediately....DEA etc..they in turn came after me with both barrels cuz they weren't involved the first time around  the first time the hospital was under no obligation to turn me over to anyone  they handled it on their own  unless I didn't cooperate...so....the grand jury indicted me, put me on the news and I made headlines   so humiliating and degrading....i was at the end of my rope.....thank God for understanding judges...and my mom God rest her soul.....my husband was very supportive and pissed that they humiliated me like they did....they don't even do that to the rapists and murderers around here....but give them a nurse or doc with a problem  they run with it...my daughter was 18 months old and does not remember when the nice policeman came to my house,,,they were very nice and took me quitely no handcuffs...they were really bothered by the fact that they had to do this when it seemed to small....a few pills...but yet it was a felony...then they had to turn me over to the other police department..I was arrested in a little city but worked in a bigger city..right next to each other..that is when they met at a gas station cuffed me and there i went....the one cop knew my dad and said he would help me make bail..which i did...it was awful....i had a old drunk next to me in this room throwing up everywhere oh my God what a disaterous night....sorry to ramble like this...but i am concerned about you and your nurse friend.Bradd, if she gets busted she is in some serious trouble....and she is not even using or is she?  please be careful.....if you need to talk or anything you can email me at ***@****   take care   love to all        cindi

[big A]

Hey bud, I have been looking at this forum everyday for the last seven months, it is really a great place to be loved, and honest with yourself.I have looked at every single entry made here, and see nothing but caring people. May GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!! My D.O.C. was oxy, I was on 6 80's a day, and dextamathorphan, (spelling?) for opiate booster. I just want you to know that I am the son of a retired police officer, and i just wanted you to know that you can do it, we are all on your side, I've been clean for over 6 mos, and praying every day to stay clean,and thomas keep up the god work!!!!!!!

[cindi]

My dad is also a retired police officer and I know plenty of people with dad's that are or were cops and most of these kids are either actively using or in recovery...sometimes the sops are as well,,,,I know it's a high stress job but what about the kids?   I know I was the first to try anything  as soon as the kids would start teasing me about my dad being a cop I had to prove to them that I could do what they did....I was no different...do you think we rebell?  i dunno just a thought     love to all   cin

[big A]

I rebelled with the best of them, and i am still suffering, my dad was a respect freak, see ya. Big A

[butterbean]

Hi WW.  I was wondering, yu said you worked in the mental health field. Did they find out about your addiction and you are still able to work or do you see therapist elsewhere?  My fear is that records can be seen by just about anyone who works in the field and offices and some people are just not confidential.  I have considered seeking counseling , but, I too work in the field.  It has been almost 12 days now and I am clean, but, I am having bad pain in legs and back.  I don't really know if I should totally stop the meds or what.  Does anyone have an answer for me.  I would appreciate all the help I can get.  And also, what is the recipe that Tom gives that you use when you are withdrawing.  Thanks everyone.

[Witchywoman]

Hi Butterbean,
No, there was no way my work could find out about my addiction.  I actually do very well at my job, have a lot of responsibility and seem to be fairly respected.  I have been off work for a few months recovering from my surgery, and am scheduled (finally!) to go back to work in a week. I'm looking forward to it.

I do see a therapist, in private practice. No one has access to counseling records unless you sign a consent form aggreeing to have your records disclosed. If someone breaks confidentiality, they can loose their license. It is considered an extremely serious breach of ethics.
Personally, therapy is extremely important to me and very helpful in keeping me honest and growing.

Glad to see you posting again butterbean! I've been wondering how you were doing.

love,
WW

[Witchywoman]

Butterbean, here is a repost of Thomas's detox recipe. It helps a lot.  We've since added 5 HTP to it...it helps with the depression part.  Take 50mgs twice a day of the 5 HTP. You can safely take 100 mgs 3 times a day, but find the lowest dose that works for you.

so..onto the repost: (this was a post Thomas wrote to a poster named Broken a few weeks ago):

It sounds like you're in the classic vice: you have chronic pain for which you need narcotic painkillers but you're also addicted to your source of pain relief and can't stick to a strictly therapeutic dose. I was in the same situation when I blew a disk out in my back. My orthopedic surgeon couldn't understand why I needed so many vic es'. What he didn't know was that I was getting them from two other doctors AND and I was calling in my own scripts at the same time -- that's how bad my habit was. I can tell you this: after you've detoxed from the vics (or Lortabs, same thing), if you can stick to a normal dose of the stuff, you will get relatively normal pain relief from them. I know it's hard to believe, but it's true. The greatest challenge is sticking to that prescribed dose. After detoxing, you'll want to "reward" yourself by taking a big dose "just this once." Of course, once you do this, you're right back in the **** again and might as well have never detoxed at all.

For what it's worth, I'm going to re-print my cold turkey detox recipe for Lortabs (yes, with the right combo of drugs and non-drug therapies, you can detox yourself from this drug). I know, because I developed this formula in order to detox myself from a seventy-five (yes, 75) vicodin per day habit. So, here it is. If you're going to do it, follow it to the letter or it won't work. The one rx drug you'll need to make it really work is some kind of benzo like valium, klonopin, librium, xanax, ativan, etc. So, if you have any relatives that can help you out with one of these drugs (or a doctor, of course) the benzos wll help make the results much more successful ... but if you can't, the recipe can still work ...

Here's my tried-and-true do-it-yourself "cold turkey" detox protocol.

Supplies you'll need first:

As many Valium, Xanax, Librium, Ativan or Klonopin as you can get your hands on.

--- first day off the opiate, use enough Valium or whatever, to, if possible, sleep through most of the first couple days. Then start decreasing the dose until you're down to nothing in about 5 or 6 days. You'll have to do the math. The Valium or one of its sister drugs will help tremendously with the anxiety and, somewhat, with the body aches. Valium may make you eat like a pig and, when withdrawing from narcotics, one usually craves sweets, so I'd be ready to indulge myself with lots of treats, along with some good escapist movies to take your mind off of evrything. That always worked for me.

VERY IMPORTAT: Around-the-clock access to either hot baths or a Jacuzzi.

--speaking of those goddamn thigh cramps that seem to love to show up in the middle of the night, have that hot bath or Jacuzzi at the ready. Don't hesitate to spend the majority of the week in that hot water if that's what it takes to get you through it. You may be wrinkled, but you'll have your sanity. Don't underestimate what the hot baths can do to relieve the withdrawal discomfort. They really, really work. Heating pads between the thighs can help with those cramps, too, but not nearly as much as the hot baths.

Brand-name-only Imodium (immodium) (over the counter at the supermarket. Don't ak me why, but the brand name just works better.)

-- if you're a normal Lortab/Vicodin addict, you'll be getting the runs by no later than the second or third day off the lortab. In my experience, it's an especially unpleasant variety. At the first impulse, take two or three Imodium (immodium) and respond to returning urges with two tabs. It's important that you do it at the slightest rumbling from your guts. Immodium is also an opioid class drug and, even though it's action is mostly confined to that part of the brain that affects bowel motility, I noticed a slight relief from the overall withdrawal feeling when I took the Imodium (immodium) -- just don't overdose on the stuff thinking it will relieve all the withdrawal symptoms - it won't - it will just constipate the hell out of you at very high doses. Stick to the dosages I recommended.


Now, this is very important to short- and long-term reovery - I can't emphasize this one enough:
L-Tyrosine [NOT L-Lysine] (qty 50 of the 500mg caps) - an amino acid freely available at the health food store. Costs about 12 bucks a bottle.

WHY?
Chronic use of narcotics depletes the brain of several critical neurotransmitters responsible for well-being and mental performance and attitude.
Plus:
Bottle of 100 mg B6 caps (the B6 helps the L-Tyrosine be absorbed)
Plus, high-potency magnesium and zinc suplements. You may have to buy each in separate pills.

My experience detoxing with L-Tyrosine says take 4000 (four thousand) mg. (8x500mg caps of L-Tyrosine) with two 100mg B6 caps along with your zinc/magnesium supplement every day for your "detox week" to provide your brain with the raw material it needs to replenish its stores of these neurotransmitters. Many feel the difference on the very first dose. (I did, big time!!) ***Take it on an empty stomach, either first thing in the morning or at bedtime. You can continue this regimen after the first week if it continues to make you feel good. I continue to use L-Tyrosine every other day with very few exceptions, although now I cut my dose to 1500 mg of L-Tyrosine. I cut down on the dosage beause it can cause the runs at high doses. But for your first week, you need the high dose of L-Tyrosine and should just put up with the runs. It only happens once after each dose (if it happens at all) and it's not the "buring runs" that you get from withdrawal. It also happens within the first hour and won't return, so it's something you can plan on. Also, the Imodium (immodium) justight cancel out the runs, anyway. So, it's livable at least for that first week. Besides, the L-Tyrosine will make you feel so damn good so quickly, you won't care! You'll be looking forward to your morning L-Tyrosine dose, believe me! L-Tyrosine will make you feel alert without being nervous, peaceful without feeling sedated, and just generally GOOD, despite the withdrawal. It's truly THE discovery of opiate withdrawal therapy.

Multi-vitamins (most junkies don't eat too well, so this one's just for good sense).

Acording to some literature, you also need to add copper, phosphorus and Vitamin C to fully complete the dopamine, norepinephrine converson. You might have to do some hunting at the health food store to find the right vitamin or vitamins to supply all this stuff. Health food stores generally care multis that, instead of carrying every vitamin known to an, carry instead all the "metals" we need such as copper, Magnesium, zince, phosporous,etc. I esily found a multiple that contained large doses of zince, magnesium, copper, vitmamin C and lots of other things for very little money. In any event, I got a VERY good result from just the L-Tyrosine and B6 alone. Don't let any difficulty finding the whole laundy list of minerals and metals stop you fro using the L-Tyrosine and B6 -- it works like gangbusters anyway!

By the way, the zinc and magnesium tip was supplied by a contributor to this site called "pillpoppa" who cliamed it was the magic formula for recovering from long-term methadone use, so it sounds like an important part of the fromula for you in particular. Even though I never used methadone, I was using this multiple with large doses of zinc and magnesium (without realizing it) and, at first, I couldn't figure out why I felt so good so quickly after stopping the Lortabs. The I realized I was getting all that zinc and mag with my multiple! Pillpoppa's formula really does work, my friend. So, don't skip any of the instructions I've given you here. Add it up, and it doesn't cost as much as a visit to the doc for a big fat Lortab rx! Remember: all the details of my recipe are necessary to complete recovery. Then, just will yourself to stick as close to the prescribed dose as you can for your pain and, hopefully, you're home free!

WARNING: Avoid L-Tyrosine if you're on an SSRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor) such as Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, all those kinds of psychiatric mood elevators, etc.

Remember, despite what the goaddamn doc might like you to believe, you haven't done anything wrong. You're a normal, decent human being who's fallen into the trap these modern medications have set for us all. You're not alone, Broken, and will never be alone as long as you come to this site. Believe me, we've ALL been where your at. We understand you and accept you and will support you through your trials. Lean on us if it helps. That's what we're here for.


Your friend,

Thomas

[butterbean]

Thanks, WW.  I am going to go out and get all this stuff.  Also, I wanted to say that I never go to different doctors or try to find these meds anywhere.  I have taken more at times than I was supposed to though, and I just make myself go through the withdrawal, because I don't want to become more dependent than I already am.  I had to come home today early as my back and legs are hurting so bad, just from wearing a shoe with a little heel on it yesterday.  These are the times when i feel like I should stay on the vics and just make myself take them when I absolutely have to.  I think I can do it!  I may try.  One thing I wanted to tell you is that when i first start taking them again after I withdraw, I get awful migraines and I throw up for 5 days until they get back in my system.  I don't know why, but, after that, I am fine and my body doesn't reject them.  I am glad you will be going back to work soon.  I also have never taken any illegal drugs, and never thought of this as an addiction until I started taking too many.  Hey, the doc perscribed the!!!!  But, i know I either take the right amount, or I go off completely.  I will let you know.  Good luck with your back.

[BRADD]

Hi Big A, thanks for the reply.  I took that last oxy 80mg today, ( the one I saved ) along with a few lortabs.  I know, I know, thats bad. I just wanted to get High " one more time " I'll continue my tapering with my lortabs tomorrow, and hopefully quit taking pain killers forever.  Well, thats my goal anyway.  Ill talk to you all tomorrow..  Have to get up early for work..  Tomorrow will be A better day.  Brad

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

This isn't in any way being meant as critical to you, but....I wish I had a dollar for every time I just wanted to get high one more time.  My intentions were always good for the next day, but that day never came as long as I had drugs in my possession.

Anyway, I was just musing about your above posting and relating to it.  So many posts have been deleted here lately it's hard to follow what is going on.  

Hope you can make things work for yourself.  J.B.

[big A]

Hey man I think that everybody here at one point or another has took that "one last one", if you know what i mean. Just keep in mind the road your travling now will get better if you stay the course, stay the course! When I went thru detox from the massive amounts of oxy's, (6-80mgs a day)mr. doctor in hospital put me on, i am only telling what worked for me, this may not work or be safe for you but here it is
1.)phenabarbitol(spelling?)
2.)catapress,(clonidine)
3.)visteril,
4.)imodium (immodium) for stomach,
this is really, REALLY tried and tested.
about a weeks supply.will do it. catapress is a old blood pressure med

if you can find a few of these it will be about 5-7 days, of feeling really bad but at least you can handle it, the worst thing for me was the stomach cramps, BLESS YOU ALL

Big A

[Wiseone111]

Hi there everyone. I have been reading these messages for aboutthe last two months. And I finally took the leap and I am in the process of getting off of Lortab(Hydrocodone) addiction.
It has been almost a week sinve my last full day on the pills. A week ago today i was taking 6-8 pills a day sometimes more. The wednesday following that i broke down and took 1-1/2. Since wednesday I have not taken anything except the vitamins, vallium, and stuff listed in Thomas' recipe. My question is this.
How long does it take for the weird feeling in my stomach and the cold sweats to go away. I really feel like i am almost over the hump here. Would just be nice to havean indication of about how long i hace left.

thanks,
-W

[SHOTSY]

I don't know the answer to your question, sorry. But post closer to the top. You are way down on this ladder and could get over looked. Someone will have the answer you need. Bye

[bugslifew]

Hello everyone..Well I fianlly got  the courage to write to u all. I was addicted to vicodens, for the last 3 years...not straight through but on and off...when i was pregnant i obviously didn't take them. after having my baby i became depressed and was taking percocet, but they ran out...so i had access to vic's and took around 15/5mgs a day!!
finally, someone in my life noticed them missing from their cabinet, that's when i admitted to taking them, and admitted to having a problem. I never thought it was bad, cause it was from a doctor, but i found out it was a narcotic....i was so glad to talk to my family about my problem, then i did "Thomas's detox" and since then have stayed off of them. I am thinking clearly, and have turned to God and Spirituality through all of this, and I have been fine. I still have my off days, but who doesn't, i just put in my head that i don't need a pill to make the bad day go away, i just look at my child, or read, or go out, anotherwords, i try to occupy my time.
this site has helped me tremendously, thank u soo much, the detox recipe was so helpful..i still take the vitamins every other day.
thanks

[skipper]

bugslifew:
welcome to the forum! there is always room for one more addict, so
come on in!

if i may sugest, post closer to the top. it is easy to get over-
looked in the basement. just pick a place close to the most current
posting and jump on in!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[silent bob]

To My brothers and sister fighting for your lives:

  I am an addict that is recovering and I am in my sixth month.
I have lost almost everything I have "earned" in my life. My wife, most of my possesions and my pride. There is an old saying that states once you have lied to yourself it is easy to lie to anyone. Ever since I was a young man of around 18 I was in some form or another addicted to pain pills. It started with a broken ankle and went to imaginary tooth aches and whatever I could say or do to get my medication.  I got away with it because I was smart, that is, I was educated, in the field of medicine and chemistry. Therefore, when I was doctor shopping I would be a doctor in town and most of the time I would have a prescription. All of the pharmacists would know me and I wold blame them for giving me looks, however, It was my fault.  My drug of choice was vicoden, or percocet and later on I added Valium to the mix. That part of my life was horrible and there are many nights I lie awake and remember what it was like. I cry myself to sleep and I never want to go back to where  I was.  The thing you all must remember is if you take the effort you used to get the medication and put that effort into quitting you have won half the battle. Find faith in something. Because you have obviuosly lost all hope or faith in yourself, Find a higher power. Now I am not saying enter a program, however, you must have support somewhere. If you can trust your doc, you must ask yourself another question. If he believes you are hurt why is it wrong to take the medicine. Your addiction will give up and take what he gives you. I tried that route too, I would say to the doc, i am addicted, his response was No your not you don't take enough. WRONG I take 20 valium a day and 20-25 10 mg vicoden.  I went through hell coming off my med's but I used my faith and did it! It was the hardest thing I have done, other then seeing what my parents have had to go through for years seeing me strung out on Vicoden. Also, be careful of ultram.  If you take too many of these in order to try to sustitute them for opiates, you could have a seizure. That is no fun!  Oh yes I was there.  I was diagnosed with adult onset Epilepsy and went from that to as much vicoden and xanax my little heart desired.  The bottomline is be strong and just take one step, one day at a time. May god be with everyone

Silent bob

[silent bob]

To My brothers and sister fighting for your lives:

  I am an addict that is recovering and I am in my sixth month.
I have lost almost everything I have "earned" in my life. My wife, most of my possesions and my pride. There is an old saying that states once you have lied to yourself it is easy to lie to anyone. Ever since I was a young man of around 18 I was in some form or another addicted to pain pills. It started with a broken ankle and went to imaginary tooth aches and whatever I could say or do to get my medication.  I got away with it because I was smart, that is, I was educated, in the field of medicine and chemistry. Therefore, when I was doctor shopping I would be a doctor in town and most of the time I would have a prescription. All of the pharmacists would know me and I wold blame them for giving me looks, however, It was my fault.  My drug of choice was vicoden, or percocet and later on I added Valium to the mix. That part of my life was horrible and there are many nights I lie awake and remember what it was like. I cry myself to sleep and I never want to go back to where  I was.  The thing you all must remember is if you take the effort you used to get the medication and put that effort into quitting you have won half the battle. Find faith in something. Because you have obviuosly lost all hope or faith in yourself, Find a higher power. Now I am not saying enter a program, however, you must have support somewhere. If you can trust your doc, you must ask yourself another question. If he believes you are hurt why is it wrong to take the medicine. Your addiction will give up and take what he gives you. I tried that route too, I would say to the doc, i am addicted, his response was No your not you don't take enough. WRONG I take 20 valium a day and 20-25 10 mg vicoden.  I went through hell coming off my med's but I used my faith and did it! It was the hardest thing I have done, other then seeing what my parents have had to go through for years seeing me strung out on Vicoden. Also, be careful of ultram.  If you take too many of these in order to try to sustitute them for opiates, you could have a seizure. That is no fun!  Oh yes I was there.  I was diagnosed with adult onset Epilepsy and went from that to as much vicoden and xanax my little heart desired.  The bottomline is be strong and just take one step, one day at a time. May god be with everyone

Silent bob

[Philip1815]

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[hateaddiction]

I am an addict also.... I have 2 shattered discs in my back and started by being prescribed 50 vicoden every 12 days. It went on for over a year and i then started buying percs or vics off the street. One day I broke down and told my brother to whom I am VERY close with. I took a trip and was gone for a wk going thru withdrawals at a friends house away from home. I was fine for about 2 wks. Then I was around them constantly at my job and well, I broke down and took one. I am no where near where I was before which I think is due to the withdrawal scare I went thru prior.....BUT I am still taking 2-6 500mg vics a day. That may not seem like a lot to some out there, but to me it equals FAILURE. I loved the comment above about not beating yourself up because I have. Really bad. I have thought myself to be the worst person ever BUT I guess reality check....everyone makes mistakes and I am still trying to figure out a way to overcome this addiction.... I have never heard of a detox formula so I am truly thankful that this was mentioned above and am going to read up on it to see if it's something that will help me..... Question: Does anyone know if the methadone clinic is a good idea or a bad idea?  Thanks-TT