Vicodin, Percocet, Codiene...etc etc

[GHnyc]

I want so bad to find out more about the poppy seed where the drug derivatives come  from for the narcotic drugs vicodin, codeine, percocet etc. What I want to know are two things. One, what are the benefits of this plant beside temporary relief of pain.. everyone knows that. I'm asking what benefits are there for example the positive benefits. I'm sure there are some when the poppy seed is taken moderately. Yeah yeah we all know the addictive quality of narcotics.. but what if someone were to take small amounts of this drug daily without going into the tolerance thing... I'm talking about someone who doesn't keep increasing the dosage of the drug. Are there any benefits from this plant? OK now for the negative side effects. Are there any negative side effects from prolonged use of poppy seed derivative's. I'm talking about someone who moderately consumes this drug. Think for a minute about this without going so danged crazy into addiction. I'm interested in finding out about moderate ingestion and the possibility of damage to brain cells, organ's (if so which organs)bones, etc etc. If there is anyone who honestly knows about this thoroughly I would appreciate some information on it.  Please do not respond if you are drug bashing recovering addict, or someone with little knowledge on the questions. Thank you very much.

[alchemist]

I'm sorry, but could you clarify your question, are you asking if there are any health benefits to ingesting poppy seeds?

[GHnyc]

ok yes..  are there any health benefits to ingesting poppy seeds. And do be a wise guy.. and say 'no'. Cuz I don't believe that. So go ahead and reply.

[GHnyc]

ahem.. that is- ''Don't Be A Wise Guy!''

[hellbent]

I don't think there is any physical benefit to ingesting opiates.

The negative side physically has been discussed here recently in many threads.

I don't think opiates kill brain cells, but I could be wrong.

[mrmichael67]

People who have been on pain meds, therapeutically, for years have done so without any organ or other physical damage.  That is why pain treatment has come so far in the last decade with new meds and whatnot.  After many studies, the medical field had come to the conclusion that opiates have unsurpassed efficacy and safety when used properly in the long term.  It has been proven.  I am talking THERAPEUTIC use, as prescribed.  I am not saying a person who pounds their ms contins will be healthy ten years down the road, or five for that matter, or less.  As far as taking a moderate amount of an opiate, what would you be taking it for?  If it is indicated, then a moderate amount over a long time will not do any damage at all.  Even if it isn't, but why would you take it?  One opioid, demerol, is an exception.  When taken over an extended period, the major metabolite normeperedine will accumulate and seizures are a big possibility.  That is why demerol is used much less in the treatment of chronic pain.  Many writings call for it to not be used at all.  And remember, tylenol is usually the culprit when the drug of choice is Vicodin or Percocet or any prep that contains it.

[Rdytoquit]

When I first started taking opiates for pain I believed that they saved my life, and even after 5 years I still believe that without the pain meds I would not be able to work or have the life that I do now. That said I can tell you what I have expirenced in the way of adverse effects of prolonged opiate use for the reliefe of pain. I have gained over 50lbs. This is due to several things. I crave sweets! I never used to eat any candy etc.. but now I eat tons of "power bars". I know it is the same as candy bars but it makes me feel a little better if I can fool myself into thinking it may be good for me. Because of the weight gain my high blood pressur returned. I have constapation that requires me to take laxitives, try to use the fiber ones. After taking the meds for several years I had a big drop in my testastrone levels, I now take androgel to get the levels back up. Not to mention the reduced sex drive...so I wont mention it. My skin has changed. I get pinples and oily skin just like a teenager (I am over 50) I get tired very quickly! I have little or no energy most days. I have mood swings from the meds. I can be happy then mad then depressed all before breakfast! Time seems to warp when taking opiates longterm, more so than normal. I have lost several hours just sitting spaced out! I think the worst part is that it feels as though I am sitting watching my life being played out. I feel more a watcher than an actor, and I know this is from the opiates. Looking back I dont think that the opiate ever made me feel Good... I did fall in love with the drug the first time my pain went away and I could walk with out too much pain. I dont think that I have suffered any long term damage from the opiates and if I quit taking them I believe all the little side effects would go away. But in the same respect I dont think that there are any "positive benefits" that you seem to be looking for. Not having the pain would be a positive benift. Guess everything in life has a price and/or a reaction.

[Thomas02]

Since you don't know if pounding ms-contins harms he body over time, I feel duty bound to volunteer to find out.

Thomas

[alchemist]

Aside from the opiates found in poppy seeds in minute quantites, poppy seeds contain a relatively large amount of Thebaine which is a convulsant and has no anlagesic properties at all.  Interesting enough, Thebaine is imported in large amounts into the US and is converted directly into oxycodone in a 1 step chemical process.  I don't know if ingesting poppy seeds will allow enough Thebaine into your system to cause convulsion, but I would suggest looking it up on the net.

Merry Chrstmas--

Alchemist

[mrmichael67]

I didn't say that.

[mrmichael67]

You would have to eat a shitload of seeds to convulse from them.  Thebaine is also converted into hydrocodone, buprenorphine, Codeine, oxymorphone, nalbuphine, naloxone, and naltrexone.

[mrmichael67]

They also convert most of the codeine from morphine as the percentage of the alkaloid codeine in the poppy is relatively low.

[alchemist]

Very true, I would imagine he would have to eat a lot of them to convulse, but if he is eating them every day for a "theraputic effect"  it may have a cumulative effect from the constituents of the seeds.

[alchemist]

For what is it worth, I read in JAMA a study where they were trying to debunk the "poppy seed defense" were people claim that traces of morphine in their urine came from eating poppy seed laden foods by looking for traces of Thebaine in their urine.  The thinking goes: if you took morphine/heroin there should be no thebaine in the urine, if its from natural soures i.e. poppy seeds, thebaine should be present.  The paper went on to say that they could not correlate eating poppy seeds to finding thebaine in the urine, it was hit or miss depending on the person.  So the poppy seed defense still stands for now, until they can find another chemical marker in the urine.

[mrmichael67]

The pain relief is the only benefit I could see gaining from opiate use.  I can't understand the poppy seed question as pain didn't seem to be an issue.  When I say physical damage, I mean no kidney failure, liver failure, etc.  Does the previous poster take testosterone?  A few of the symptoms you just mentioned sound directly related to it.  Ingrown hairs is another symptom.

[JR.]

Hello everyone and I hope that all of you had a Merry Christmas.

I haven't posted in a while but I do keep up with the posts. I was reading this thread and had questions about long term effects myself. I was a 12 year vicodin addict and now have 20 months clean and I am absolutely greatful for my sobriety and the "NEW" and fulfilling life that I have. As long Jesus CHrist is number one in my life, I will never go back. My question is this: I began to notice after about 1 year of sobriety that there were lapses in my thought patterns. By this I mean that I never had a problem thinking on my feet. My recall on words and them meaning of words was never a problem. Now when I am in the middle of a sentence, words escape me, thoughts escape me when I am trying to convey a thought to whomever I am talking with at the time.

I was a police officer for 18 years and and always had to have the answers available for my job or least be able to think through a situation befor eacting and in a timely manner. I now have a new career and it doesn't require the same on the spot thinking as when I was in Law Enforcement. At least not as quickly. Sometimes I feel like I am in the beginning stages of Alzheimer's. Is it because I am not required to have quick recall any longer or is becuase I have blown a fuse with all of the vicodin use. I was up to taking 8 at a time when I finally stopped. What are yall's thoughts?

[GHnyc]

Well thank you all very much for the responses. I am a guy who deals with chronic pain - cervical (from whiplash herniation c4-c5, c6-c7) Lumbar bulges in 3 discs, disk degeneration, dessication, shmorl's node and scoliosis. I also have pain in both legs (tib and fib) from car accident at age 5 broke both legs and fractured skull, age 16 motor cycle accident.. broke left tib and fib. So as you can see I am accident prone for sure. Ask my girlfried, she will attest that just about everyday someone veers into us for some strange ungodly reason. ANYWAY! You all can imagine that I have been on my share of pain killers and still am. However for the most part I have never taken any pain meds for more than a month or two. But this past Sept. I was broadsided by a 'sleeping' driver on a Highway and suffered severe pain in my hip and lumbar area. I was hospitalized in a trauma unit with Morphine IM's Q4 hours. I was very sedated and relieved of my pain. Upon discharge I was given Tylenol w/codiene 30 tabs w/one refill. I used them up and also about 60 vicodin's left over from a previous prescription for a cervical injection. Since I have been on percocet as well and just got a new prescription for vicodin #40 with one refill. I am so happy to have these meds. I take them for pain relief and I take them responsibly. At present with the exception of some 'newfound' fatigue which has led to a decrease in excersise drive, I seem to find very few side effects ie, cognitively, memory lapse, or any kind of hangover feeling. Right now I take on percocet pill I think it's 10/650 mg (yeah I know it is)before bed and it helps me to sleep and relieves my pain til the next night. So that's it. Again thank you for your responses and if anyone has anything else to add I will appreciate that also. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

[coswathy]

hello everyone.........just tutchin base..been a reg user for  pain for 5+ years........8-12/day steady, 1& 1/2 or 2 at a time...not an abuser but not happy with the overall mood swings & choco binges...interested in the long term destruction...I'm over 50 and wonder if I'll ever be in shape physically enough again to eliminate opi oids from my life...more soon

[renewal]

Hello everyone.....
I actually have a question.  Is it against the law to doctor shop?  In other words, if you are given prescriptions legitimately, but get them filled at more than one pharmacy, and see more than one doc, is this illegal?

thanks for any input.

[Witchywoman]

Yep, it is totally illegal, and you can get arrested for it. I believe this is the case in all 50 states.  Some states have computer systems that track narcotic prescriptions to try and catch folks filling scripts for narcotics from different Docs, so be careful!

WW

[Rex1]

Give us some more info on your pain.

Also, are you interested in totally detoxing.

Rex

[drummerman7032]

Am I addicted . I have been taken 6 7.5/200 vicoprofen for 3 years a day never increased the dosage I was offered oxycotin but refused after ereseaching the drug , I posted on another topic on how I take my meds I have a 30 day presciption and I throw away 5 to 6 days in  the toilet everymonth so I have to be off them for 5 days I didn't always do this but There are reason I did , Now I haven't increased my dose in thre years since I have been on them . I have three herinated disc in my back from a severe car accident 2 are almost degr=enerated the operation is to risky in the area . It;s in my middle back I have seen 4 to 5 specialist and they do not want to touch me with a 10 foot pole without my signing a long waiver saying I understand the risk od paraylisis and death in surgery . SO thi leaves me with one relief that is meds . I have refused to increase my dose or change my meds they work for the pain but not as well but . I want to wait till it is unbearaable to change anything and go to a higher dose or a new med / To tell youthe truth I don't want to change anything I hope it still works and I do not have to increadse the dose  




I have read post peope taking 10 to 30 10/325 hydrocondone a day on this board and trust me I am not judging by no means I used to know people who wre in massive pain like me and needed meds like that but . I have been taking the 6 tabs a day for 3 years now I know I will probaly be on them the rest of my life if a doctor will not operate so I am wondering from everyone here what would I be considered . When I stop taking them for the 5-6 days I feel some withdrawl but I take the max of advil it doesn't take the pain away but only limits it to be just under unbearable .I was just wondering your feedback please help in responding to me . I have lost many girlfriends and friends because of my pain and refusing to increase my dose and different meds what should I do . It's like a catch 22 If I try to keep the neds in check I am not fully paina free and can't enjoy life but if I take more I figure i will have to get away from them and find life again

[Rex1]

It sounds to me like your not an addict. Do you think your are an addict?

There are plenty of people out there - and you sound like one of them - that use the mdicine as it was intended. Praise God for painkillers to help people like you get by.

The question I hear you asking is "Since my pain is not being handled completely with the Vicoprofen, would I be at rsik of getting addicted if I went to a stronger med?". Is this what you are asking?

I have no exp. with Oxy or Morphine or anything stronger than Vicodin. But many here do so I will let them respond.

I can tell you this. The longer you stay on pain medicine, the less likely your own bodies natural defenses are going to kick in. This is why you have some withdrawals.

But from the sound of it, you stay within your dosages pretty well. As long as your looking for a long term solution, it seems like your are using the med for what it was intended.

Beware though, this addiction attacks quickly and covertly as many here will tell you.

Good luck and you will get more responses from others.

Rex

[drummerman7032]

Right now how I feel is I am tried and a little depressed but i am going to go away thia weekend with no meds and my trusted advil and be away from my doctor I am going to . Which is only one I have seen him for 3 years . He always says to me you are the only patient that comes in when you are suppose to and refuses to up your dose even when i see your in pain . I have been offered the Gambit Oxycotin dilaudid . I actually was on dilualdid for 2 months and got off it after one quick surgery to relieve pressure on one of my dics . I find it a gray area , I just talked to my mom and my doc saying I want to be off this stuff but the pain comes back with a vengence and does not go away . I am confused please give me as many feedbacks as possiable I want to know what you all think . You all seem like you know when to say hey this is a problem I really don't know if it is . I find the pain more of a problem then the meds . Limiting my meds makes the ppain come back and I become a unbearable person with the pain . But I don't want to wakeup one day saying oh my god I am addicted . I told my doc about dumping the meds in the toilet and he said I was stupid no one should have to live in pain . But I also tld him I do not want to become addicted . I fiugure 25 out of 30-31 days of pain free living id a great trade off to being addicted massiavly

[JR.]

Thanks Witchywoman for carrying the torch. If we can keep another addict from doctor hopping then let's keep on trucking. I sure did not like the results of doctor hopping(shopping) after I found that it was illegal, the hard way. Thanks again.

[coswathy]

thanks for the vine...the pain comes from many years of neck & upper back degeneration..i.e. loss of pads for bones and a small misalignment of the spine...enough to numb one foot.(.right side of the ankle.) ..all or alot is weighted by my job..poor posturing with my laptop-data entering..done in a variety of offices without a choice of chairs or desks..I refuse to have an operation as suggested..becasue I'm stubborn and probably in denial..I still believe that I can get into good physical shape, somehow strengthening the areas..and reduce the needs to aspirin/cremes...I had lower back surgery..(L5 disk herniation) in 1986, it cost me a year, my job, a very depressing experience...of course my tolerance is high to the vikes...but when I quit them(with methadone supervised last year)..I could not quite function in a life I need to produce daily in...so I was allowed back on what worked..your question about getting off for good..yeah I,d love to.. cause the drugs are weak, a crutch, and not as good as nature alone...I don,t smoke, drink, or have any other poor choice habits....soooo I'm interested in a plan to quit, strengthen, and still function...someone said something interesting about your 12 stepper...so I,d like to tune...thanks coswathy

[teeitup]

I like you have a med. condition that will require some pain med. for life. I spent some time at M.D. Anderson Cancer Clinic in Houston for some trial lazer techniques. The one thing that all the doctors told me was that anyone in real pain should get relief because the stress pain puts your body in is worse than what the pain meds. do to it when used properly. Everyones tolerance is different.

For me it's going to be a life long balancing act, I have been a recreational drug user for 25+ years. I've always been able to put anything down any time I wanted, not hydro. Now that I have to have something it's going to be self control to "use" and not "abuse". This forum is helping me do it! Good luck!

teeitup!

[drummerman7032]

Well I am back from the weekend and I am in pain big timr but I made my monthly promise to myself all togther I will be vicoprophen free for 8 days this month till I see my doctor . I have taken 5 advil and 3 excedrin quick tabs and it's not killing me but it's like a numb annoying toothache in my back . Right now I feel like I never was on any meds . But the truth is the advil and excedrin will only be able to keep the pain in check for another 2 days and thats the part I hate that I will have to go back on the meds again . but I truly think that going off htem each month makes them work correctly and that has been the reason why I haven't had to take more then what was prescibed for 3 years . . I find when I do go off hte meds each month I beome very emotional on day 3 and 4 does this happen to anyone else but by day 5 and 6 I am back to normal except with this damm pain .And I didn't think I could do it this monthmy normal 5-6 days off meds  I just broke up with my girlfriend because of all the problems with my back she couldn't handle it and I didn't think it was fair to put her thur it . But that made it all the reason more to take a break from meds this month to see even if I am streesed out I wouldn't use them as a crutch


Like I said if any one is interested in how I did this each month heres my reciepe .

Of course amomium AD is a diffenate thing to have around
and when I feel tried I take vivirian a caffine stay away pill
and I grin and bear it plus advil and I just discovered excedrin quick tabs and go somewhere I can be alone.  and just think one days god willing it will all be better  

[drummerman7032]

I thought this might help . I rememeber a Montel Williams show about people addiced to herion . Basically the drugs come from the same class opiates . He had this doctor on . That has a place in NYC that has a medical detox place that can completely detox your body of opiates in 24 hours . Now I am only going from memory of what I rememebr because the minute the surgery get done on me I am done taking anything. I want my life back that if it is successful . thats a 60 yes /40 not goods split from all the docs I taked to . But I am sure if you call up channel five in Nyc or look up the Montel williams show on the net they should be able  send you the information , I actually discussed this with my doctor he doesn't think I will need it but I wanted him to have the answers for me if I end up needing it .

  How it worked is a fast acting drug like Narcan (I don't know if that the actual drug but it closly work the same way it causes rapid detox . as this is happening you are put out . after you wake up you feel like **** but within 2 to 3 days you are but to normal also for illegal drug users they inject a blocking receptor chemical that blocks opiates to enter the system (I am sure it can be requested if you wanted that done to even if you are taking prescibed medication and want off )that even if you take something it will not effect you )now this is what i rememebr from memory if you interested Iemail the montel williams show and get the info sometimes a little info can help a ton of people ,. I am lucky my sister is a nurse and I have her to ask all my questions to and she nows my injury and watched out for me if I can come up with the website or info I will post it

[drummerman7032]

Hey all sorry for posting so much but if any of this could help one person I found this on the net and this is the treatment I was talking about seeing on the montel williams show here are the website

http://www.floridadetox.com/


http://www.detox24.com/detoxification_procedures3.html#24



I hope this helps

[TiredOldJunkie]

GHnyc (I think)...in response to your question about the benefical use of the Poppy Seed. As I sit here now, after my last addiction, Hydrocodone, that has lasted the previous (2) or so years, I can only say that there are no benefits worthwhile enough to experiment with opiates. I would aliken it to playing Russian Roulette, it too has a "benefit", if you get an empty chamber...you get to live! Is that a benefit worth "playing" the game ? I started using Hydrocodone knowing exactly where I was headed after almost (3) decades of being an Alcoholic, but I kept going. Now, about (2) years later, I've lost my family, my job, pretty much my mind and probably very soon my freedom. I'm looking at up to 20 years for (3) Felonies and a Misdemeanor Battery charge. From what I've read, the only "really" benefical result from Opiates is for SHORT TERM pain relief, strictly monitored by a Physician, if you REALLY!! need it.

P.S. They prescribed Opiate derivatives for
     many years for Diarrhea...take my advice
     get some Kaopectate or **** your pants!

[Thomas02]

Sorry to hear about your self-destruct. I've been busted three times for Vic-related Rx fraud, but they always filed them as misdemeanors (in Cal). If you don't mind me asking, what are you charged with? Is there a chance they can be bargained down to misdemeanors before you're through?

Thomas

[TiredOldJunkie]

Hi Thomas,

I only wish, I'd had the "victimless" stuff too, however this wasn't victimless and involved a firearm. Something I couldn't have done in 10 lifetimes had I not been screwed-up long term, starting to go into withdrawl and almost outta anything to get high on. My only chance at a light sentence, is that the only witness (victim) no longer wants it prosecuted because of my state at the time and the fact that I'm clean now. My problem is that the state is going on full steam ahead.

That which doesn't destroy us, makes us stronger!  :)