Vicodin Withdrawl

[david]

I got hooked on Vicodin after a serious knee injury in April. After the injury, doctors prescribed the drug to treat the pain, which was excruciating. It took nearly three months to get into surgery, so I was prescribed Vicodin again after that. I have reinjured the knee a couple of times, again more vicodin. I finally decided to get off this drug last week and it has been the hardest thing I've ever done. I talked to my doctor, who prescribed a beta-blocker to lessen some of the withdrawl symptoms.
Although I'm not having panic attacks, I am irritable and seem to have some flu-like symptoms such as achiness and runny nose and eyes. I am also extremely depressed and have absolutely no motivation to do anything except sleep.
My question is, how long do these symptoms last and are there any other medications which can help alleviate them?

[Cindy]

david, you are very lucky in the fact that your addiction/using has been less than a year.  If you do not take any more vicodin or related drugs, you should be fine physically in about a week.  Mentally, the longer you have been on them, the harder it is to focus on a happy daily life without the effects of narcotics. As far as your irritability, I would not suggest any narcotics such as valium, which can lead to another nightmarish addiction. Your body has stopped producing its own dopamine, which is the natural pain reliever that the body produces.  It has come to depend on the synthetic powers of vicodin.  Soon, your body will start producing dopamine again, the irritability and depression will go away.  Take motrin for the achiness, and melatonin, a natural remedy found at any walmart or drug store for sleep.  You will be fine.  Cindy, a 10 year addict.

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Hi Cindy,
How long did it take you to feel like a human being again after quitting? Was a week all that it took? During the time when you felt bad did you do anything at all as far as exercise, walking?   I am thinking about cutting down some on my daily meds.  Still thinking of what to expect.  I learned alot from your email by the way!
Thanks,
Kimmie

[david]

Dear Cindy,

Thank you so much. I can't tell you how much your wisdom has meant to me. Right now I feel pretty bad (I hurt all over). But at least I know there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
David

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

I dont understand for the life of me how to post.  I am so sorry that I must go through someone elses thread invading their train of thought (sorry David).  I have tried at all hours of the day and night.  I have finally come to the conclusion that I am what I am calling "EMAIL BLOCK".  Do any of you have any secrets on how to get a new thread going?  I have posted before on this site on a new thread.  I have tried 12:03 on a Saturday and it said that it had taken all the emails it could for that day.  

Thanks,
Kimmie

[Cindy]

to kimmie:   First of all, I did not mean to give the impression that I am not a practicing addict.  Just someone who has had a lot of experience. I still see my doctor and have gone from taking my whole presciption in three days to actually doing it as prescibed and I dole it our to myself.  However, I am a slave to this state because of this addiction.  It is my fault, not my doctor because he does not force me to sit in the office.  As far as getting better, I highly recommend excerise.  I saw a posting about an exercise bike.  Everyone who has ever had those horrible leg cramps should read that.  The exercise bike is really amazing when you are in withdrawal.  For me, I found that I could stay on it forever, because the increase in blood flow is such a rush. Any physical activity will help tremendously.  However, like everything else, it is only temorary.  Kimmie, I would do anything to have never taken a pain pill.  I don't know if the withdrawal from a small dose is any different than a large one.  If you are an addict, your body will force itself to eventually adjust to the smaller dose.  Amazing how it can trick us.  So now, I subsist on three to four 7.5 mg a day, I don't get the euphoric feeling, but I don't get the bad withdrawal.  Beyond that, I don't have any experience.  I am so glad for your posting.  Cindy

[Cindy]

david, I am so glad to hear that you are doing well.  Continue that positive train of thought.  You will be o.k.  The problem will come if you take another narcotic.  You can't go through withdrawal and expect to take recreationally.  There are also dentist appts, unexpected medical needs, etc.  If you truly do not want to remain an addict, be upfront with your desire not to take a narcotic.  You don't have to tell them you are addicted.  Just say "I am allergic to codeine."  A pain killer does not have to be a narcotic to help pain.  Good luck in your recovery, Cindy

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

To make a long story short I could have written your post.  What a vicious cycle.  I am going to start doing the exercise thing.  I just started on Fastin (a diet pill under the Doctors supervision) and now I feel like a Hamster that needs one of those metal wheels to crawl in all night long.  I would like to have an exercise program well under way before I try to be a hero.  Have a good evening.  I am now going to clean my oven and pressure wash the house (haha).  I am hoping that starting an exercise program will help me to not need pain meds for the "breakthrough pain" too.  I got 20 to 25 trigger point injections yesterday and I am one sore as hell camper.
Have a good evening Cindy.

[Lynn Britt]

what a great question because I am having the same problem with norco.  I have had some severe migrain headaches and the doc, gave me the norco.  I just  recently heard it was addicting, I have taking it for over 1 month now and I am scared I cannot get off.  I am scared to tell my doc.

[Lynn Britt]

what a great question because I am having the same problem with norco.  I have had some severe migrain headaches and the doc, gave me the norco.  I just  recently heard it was addicting, I have taking it for over 1 month now and I am scared I cannot get off.  I am scared to tell my doc.

[to doc dan from joe]

Dan,

I have read here many times that quiting and going through withdrawal the second time is harder than the first, is there any  medical reason for this or is it psycological?  After being clean a week my pain has started again (did a little too much yard work while I felt pain free) and now I'll have to go through this again when (and if) my pain subsides again.  But I was wondering if going through withdrawal again is really going to be worse this time.

Thanks,

Joe

[Frankinscense]

Hello Joe Good to here from you. You know I am not a medical doctor, Right! Anyway I must tell you what I know about withdrawals and opiate pill addictions. The brain views all opiates as the same substance. Whether its heroin/morphine or vicodin/lortab. All opiates stimulate your endorphin systems.
Continually taking vicodin,heroin,percocet(oxycodone/contin) lowers your bodies stores of endorphins. Other N/transmiters such as dopamine and serotonin are also effected my chronic opiate use. All this information that I am providing comes directly from research and my school textbooks. Joe, if you (or anyone) want a list of sources for my information provide me with a e mail addy and I will provide you with sources of my information. Also the information was gathered from various doctors while receiving treatment for my opiate addiction,which I have been in treatment for six years. Joe sorry for interupting my posts but people have been questioning my creditability.
   Physiologically it depends how long you have been taking the drug this time. The longer you have been taking the opiate and what doses,will determine the intensity of your withdrawals. If your endorphin system had been able to return to normal through abstinence ( if tht's possible for an opiate addict) you would have not that intense withdrawals. Several weeks of abstinence is necessary for the normal healthy person to normalise the endorphins. It is debatable among doctors if the chronic opiate addicts endorphins ever return to it's normal functioning. That is why I caution people not abuse opiates because the disease has a negative effect on endorphin stores. The longer you use and the higher doses will determine the difficulty of your withdrawals. So withdrawls in  my opinion (and in my case) were more difficult the second time around. The only way it would be easier is because you know what to expect. If you must use opiates for pain do so in a very conservative and as needed manner.  Another point I would like to make. The longer that I could stay abstinent the better my pain tolerance was.  
My best to You Joe,
Dan..

[to doc dan from joe]

Dan,

Thank you for your reply.  No need to send references, I value both your opinion and credibility.

Joe

[Concerned, to Joe]

Hi Joe!
For the sake of new participants,  could you please keep the "Doc" of Dan's nickname in quotes. As you may have noticed from previous threads, there's been some confusion stemming from the use of Dan's misleading nickname. No offense, just a courtesy to those who might be vulnerable and looking for a real doc. Thanks!

[DETOX PAINLESSLY-BUPRENORPHINE]

Why are ANY of you detoxing without using buprenorphine?  Is it because of lack of knowledge or lack of knowing where to go to get buprenorphine?  I would be interested for responses, also, for those who have used it, do you agree with me it is almost a "painless" detox?  Buprenorphine IS available for detox.  Usually you have to go to either an outpatient detox program or an addiction medicine doctor.  It is totally unlike clonidine and Klonopin, which simply make symptoms about 20% less.  Buprenorphine detoxes most people off opiates with little or NO discomfort.  I've used it several times and it worked GREAT.  Any detox program worth a damn uses it.  There are several docs on the East Coast where you can get it for $200 or so or less.  You administer it yourself (easy injections into the thigh area).  Most detoxes run about 3-7 days of buprenorphine.  If there is any interest here, I will post the names, etc. of docs using it on the East Coast.  Perhaps some other folks here know docs elsewhere using it and can post their info.  Why suffer if you don't have to??  Please respond.  There doesn't seem to be much dialogue here about this amazing detox drug.

[Lynn to Neena]

OK, you got my attention. Im heavily addicted to percs, as most people here already know. I live in New Haven, Conn. and know of a hospital in Bristol, Conn, an in-patient facility where they use buprenorphine (or buprenex as it is also called) but I have no way to get there! I know for a fact it is the most painless way to detox and I continue to suffer because I don't know of a doctor in the New Haven area. Is there such a doctor that will just send you home with it? I don't post much anymore because I'm so sick of asking for help, getting it in spades and double, and just continue to use. I lost my job, and can't stand the thought of looking for a new one while still high and chasing percs. I want to start a new job and new life. Can you help me?

[Mike P. to Ken]

Re Buprenorphine:

"I've used it several times and it worked GREAT."

I thought that was classic! NO offense intended to the poster who said that, but it is rather amusing. I don't have a problem with drugs, I've quit several times!

Okay - so tom - what gives with the methadone? No word from you on it. Am very curious. Fill me in. Did you get rid of your Darvon, Oxy etc.?

Chad - did you fill it? Since you haven't posted, I'm assuming you did. Fill me in too.

[Cindy]

Just wanted to wish everyone a good weekend.

[to Kat]

DID you BOTHER to read my post??  If you did, you would see I NEVER said "I don't have a problem with drugs."  OBVIOUSLY I DO, AS MOST OF US HERE DO.  Furthermore, almost all addicts relapse, usually several times.  I'm no exception.  At least when I have relapsed, I am able to get off the drugs sooner due to buprenorphine.  How many of you have stayed on the narcotics, wishing you could get off them, but were afraid of the withdrawal so continued using?  The #1 reason addicts keep using even after they wish so badly they could quit, is the fear of that horrible withdrawal.  So, if there is a drug that works to make those symptoms go away, at least it gives you a CHANCE to get your life on track.  I have learned the hard way that you must commit to a program of some type (like NA) to stay OFF the drugs.  What I think is amusing is someone like you who criticizes me without bothering to even read fully my post.  What is also amusing is that you don't bother to RESPOND to the questions I posed.  VERY amusing.

[to Kat]

Lynn, I'm the one who wrote the buprenorphine post.  You CAN get outpatient buprenorphine, within driving distance from your home.  Go to www.detox-center.com.  This website is for Lance Gooberman, M.D.  Although the website talks about heroin detox, he detoxes people from opiate pills and heroin.  He will detox you outpatient, using buprenorphine.  The deal is you call and get an appointment, usually for a day or two later.  He has Saturday appts.  The cost is just over $200.00 for the visit AND the preloaded syringes of buprenorphine.  You get 3 syringes with the equivalent of a bit over 3 ampules of buprenex in each syringe.  You inject yourself in the thigh area, just under the skin, in the morning when withdrawal is just starting.  It TOTALLY takes away the withdrawal.  It just makes you tired.  Best is to do it on a Sat. and sleep.  By the time the last shot wears off, you are detoxed.  Some people have some really mild withdrawal symptoms (I never have and I've detoxed off pretty heavy stuff).  He gives you prescriptions for some other drugs like clonidine, which I never filled since the buprenorphine works so well.  Please post if you have any more questions.  Phil

[for Sick and scared/beware of Vicky!!]

I have been clean for 2 years.
I have talked to so many people that tell me so casually that they have this or that wrong with them and they take vicodin, oxys, you name it.
My mouth starts to actually water. I can feel the high from the soon as they start telling me. The comforting, warm fuzzy all over feeling you get from them and it has been 2 years.
Is this normal? I went clean cold turkey and only until recently have I felt this way. How the hell do you people get your hands on all of these drugs anyhow? I couldnt get a doctor to give me enough for a month let alone the amounts that I have read on these posts. Its totally unreal. I also didnt hit the streets for them either. It started as a legit complaint and i just liked the high not to mention the relief. HELP ME before I try to think of a way to go to the ER for some phony reason!!
HURRY!

[cindy to wanting to relapse]

Think back to the reason you stopped.  The horrible withdrawals.  When you read the posts on this board, not everyone is bragging about how much they do, or how easy stuff is to get.  Everyone is doing the same thing:  Trying to prevent withdrawals.  You remember, the horrible sick feeling, the anxiety, cold sweaty feeling.  Why would you risk two years of addiction-free living for all of that?  Plus, now not only are you back to withdrawal, you are going to start obsessing over getting more.  I sit at a ghetto doctor's office for four hours at least.  He double, triple books, because he can.  I have gone to hime for ten years because I have not f**ked it up.  I haven't actively gone to another doctor or shown too much emotion when a pharmacist has said it was too soon for a refill.
However, as someone said earlier, there are no guarantees in the drug world.   My doctor could die.  I don't know anyone else who takes them, so finding them would be almost impossible.  I don't even know where to get pot.  I just moved to a larger city in my state.  I am trapped in my bleak midwestern existance because I can't leave my doctor.  Is this the kind of life you want?  Please don't go back.  I would give anything to have never started.   I am sorry for rambling, but I feely so strongly.

[for Sick and scared/beware of Vicky!!]

Thank you for answering me. I didnt mean to make it sound like I thought everyone was bragging about how much they take etc.....it just made me envious I guess. Your right about thinking back to the withdrawls. Actually they were not that bad. I had to run to the bathroom alot for about 48 hours and I had a feeling like I was "coming down with something" but when I stopped smoking the withdrawls were actually worse then the vicodin withdrawls and i am not kidding you.
I think also I am craving because I am in so much pain every day of my life and I just wish it would STOP. I know relief could be in the bottle of vicodin. I am 35 years old and I feel like I am 100 half the time......especially in the morning. I can go on and on but I wont. If I sit back and read what I am typing it looks like I am trying to justify my cravings.
But your post has made me stop and think if it is worth it or not. Thank you!!!!

[cindy to wanting to relapse]

I am so glad you are have chosen not to.  I didn't mean to infer you thought people were bragging.  It is hard to hear about all that's available if you have none.  For me, I am envious of those that can restrain.  As far as actual pain relief, I have arthirtis in my neck, plus some other problems.  I hate to admit this but vicodin DOES NOTHING for me for pain.  After the first few months, I built up a huge tolerance.  Now it is merely maintenance.  I think, and this is only my opinion, that narcotics don't actually work on the pain, they only take our MINDS off of the pain.  Anyway, I hope there is an alternative for you, such as another type of medicine, or physical therapy.  Hang in there, you have done great for two years!!!!!!!

[candy]

David:
I am also addicted to Vicodin. I have gone without taking them for up to one month. Yes, I fail at re-habbing myself. But, when I do stop taking them, I feel sick-like for a couple days, and after that, it's not bad at all! I am currently trying to get off of them by cutting down what I take drastically. If before I took 2 first thing in the morning (of the 10 miligram) I am now only taking a `1/2 of one. I hope you are feeling better today! It's all about will power, and just going throught it for a few days.!Good luck!

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Hi Candy,
When you say that when you stop taking them you "feel sick for a couple of days".  Just how sick for you feel?  Do you get the "Heebie Jebbies" I mean feeling like you are a caged animal?  I was just interested to know.  I have quit cold turkey before and got so sick (throwing up, feeling like I was going insane)  so I did not make if for very long without taking them again.  I was just curious if you were as sick as I was and I just did not give it enough time.  You remember how it is though The hours go by sooooo slow!  I mean I have phenergan, Xanax etc to help but when you have two youngsters in the house it is hard to just hide in the bedroom and let me and my body go through this evil Voodoo for 3 days or more.  Do you know as crazy as this sounds I was even thinking about starting to smoke to take my mind off the pills and the problems with Chronic pain that I have daily. Pretty Crazy huh!  
Take Care,
Kimmie

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Hi Phil,
I am fascinated by your posting.  I live on the east coast (Florida). I would love to know anything that you know about someone in my state to give this a try.  So, was being tired to only side effect. How long were you tired?  Was it like a drained feeling or did you want to or did you just sleep for long periods of time.  So, how often did you give yourself the shots? I know that you said that you were given three shots.  Is that an adequate amount?  Then what is the next step?  Is that the part that is up to you?  Sometime when you have a moment can you explain to me what feelings you had to start using again? I mean so the medicine is out of your body?  After you take these shots what is the feeling you have other than being tired? I mean do you still CRAVE and have the desire to use again.  I guess I am trying to understand the WHAT NEXT part. How long did you seem to go/last between treatments?  What was the cost? Exactly $200?
Sorry to ramble and thanks for reading this.
Shelly in Florida

[tom to Mike P.]

where am I? I'm "to the curb" as they say. Buprenorphine is still illegal in California for treating opiate addiction. And the methadone? Well, these folks want me to bring in a note from my doctor certifying my opiate addiction before they will even talk to me. Give me a break! Without knowing that 1) I will be accepted into the methadone maintenance program or 2) confirm that methadone is the right stuff for me, I'm supposed to burn my bridges with my doctor by telling him about my addiction!!! Suppose the methadone program proves unworkable for some reason. There I am, utterly cut off from my legal, reliable supply of the drugs I need to live and right back in the hell of doctor shopping and black market purchases. **** that! I have one other clinic I can try this weekend. I'm gonng to tell them I get all my pills on the black market and see what they say. I'm also still worried about giving one clinic total power over my life and day-to-day movements. I haven't given up yet, but it's hardly a slam dunk trying to get help. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for asking Mike. I hope this message finds you well. Take care.

[to Shelly AND EVERYONE ELSE]

I would really love it if some more people would respond to my post above about buprenorphine.  I am really curious why more of you haven't used it to get off the narcotics?  I understand for those who may not be ready to get off, or who have chronic pain, but what about the rest of you?  If what's holding you back from quitting is fear of withdrawal (a justified fear cause it IS terrible) why not buprenorphine?  Tom, I don't believe it is ILLEGAL anywhere in the US to use buprenorphine for detox.  It just has to be used by programs and docs that have approval for it.  I AM SURE California doesn't prohibit it entirely.  Since it IS a narcotic, any old doc can't use it for detox (same with methadone) BUT, programs and docs that have DEA approval CAN and DO use it.  There are changes coming soon so that ANY doctor can use it for detox (because it is so safe and there is little concern about "diversion" to the drug market, like there is for methadone, due to the fact it doesn't get you "high").  As soon as these changes come, family docs can detox their patients, outpatient, without a program or anything else.  Once that happens, tons of addicts will finally have a viable option to easily detox, privately.  About time don't you think?  Until then, people simply need to check around by calling programs (for outpatient detox) and ask if they use buprenorphine.  Also, look for a doc certified in addiction medicine and ask if they can detox you outpatient.  There is no longer any excuse for not detoxing if you want to (a big IF), and doing it pretty painlessly.  Shelly, this was long so I'll post below to you.  Phil

[to Vicodin Gurll]

Hi.  Good questions.  Dr. Gooberman's detox consists of three preloaded syringes with 1.0 mg/cc of buprenorphine in each syringe.  Each one contains a bit over 3 ampules of Buprenex (the brand name buprenorphine).  Some programs use the Buprenex ampules and prescribe 1 every 6 hrs the first day, 1 every 8 the second day, 1 every 12 hrs. 3rd day, and 1 the fourth day.  This adds up to 10 ampules of buprenorphine, pretty much the same amount as Dr. Gooberman.  Because Gooberman puts so much in each syringe, it lasts 24 hrs from 1 shot.  He does it this way because, 1. it is easier; 2. even heavy users get instant relief (because it is so potent; 3.  he doesn't think you need to taper it.  What I've done is taken the full syringe the 1st 24 hrs; used .8 the second day; .6 the third; .4 the fourth; .2 the fifth.  Worked great that way.  (I simply used some allergy syringes I had to transfer some buprenorphine).  Other people I have recommended to Dr. Gooberman used it his way (1 syringe each 24 hrs. for 3 days and then stop) and said it worked great for them.  Most of us were detoxing off heavy amounts of opiates (200 mg. oxycontin and higher).  The first day with the full syringe I slept a good part of the day.  No withdrawal symptoms at all.  Second day my body was more used to it and I went to work and functioned fine.  Same each day after.  After I was off the buprenorphine I had no real cravings.  Why did I use again?  Hard to say.  I felt pretty good, so I guess it was that I did NOTHING to stay clean.  Didn't go to NA, didn't change my lifestyle, etc.  Buprenorphine won't magically transform you from being an addict.  It just will give YOU the chance to change your life, by detoxing you easily and painlessly.  It is then up to YOU.  I now learned this and have been clean 6 months!  As to the cost, I didn't bother filling the other scripts he gives you (like clonidine, etc.) because I knew I wouldn't need them.  So, for the office visit and the buprenorphine it was around $220.00.  A damn good deal I think.  His office is located just off the Jersey Turnpike, and he gets people from ALL over the East Coast going to him.  I think the man is a Messiah.  He gave me my life back!!  Please post any more questions.  Phil.  P.S.--Anyone else out there who used it?  I'd like some more discussion of it here because I think it is SUCH a good treatment option for addicts.  My prayers to you all, you're a great bunch of people and I love the discussions here!!

[Candy to Kimmie]

I don't know how to repsond to a particular person, I hope this works! Kimmie: I stopped taking them because I broke up with my boyfriend who had the major supply. He knows alot of people that sell them. So, I got my own little prescription from my doctor (21 a month), and that was it, so I had no choice but to go withhout pretty much. I recently started talking to this person again as friends, and together (along with his brother) we purchase the little demons. I was buying the Norco's or the Blue 10mg ones for up to $8.00 each. Isn't that gross? Do you know how much money that is for a stupid pill?? It makes me sick. My friend can get them for 2.50-4.00 each, but it still is such a waste of money. We have been trying to slowly take less and less like I was saying, but it's hard. I don't want to "have" to take them. I wouldn't mind taking 2 on a Friday night or whatever, but to take them constantly is awful, and when you don't have them, that's the worst. But anyway, when I don't take them, I feel pretty bad for a couple days. I have wanted to get a hotel room for a week bymyself and just go through it, because it is hard when there are kids or others around you. It seems to help to only take a little bit though just to help get the Uglies out!!I hope this helps. I did not realize how many people this is happening to. Take care!Candy

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Thank you so much for your response! When you go to this office are you treated respectfully? I am assuming everything is confidential.  How far is his office from NYC? would it be a long limo/cab ride? I mean I would want to DETOX in style! haha.
And Phil, What does this medicine do?  I mean is it an anti-nausea, anti-anxiety, anti-sweats.  Are the results immediate?  I mean after the first shot?  What type of Dr. is he?  Strickly addiction?  One of my doctors in an anesthesiologist.  If I told him I was ready to go off the meds. does he have the ability to write  a prescription for this?  I know that you have mentioned before that sometime in the future a primary doctor could prescribe this medicine as well.  Do you know how far off in the future this wiil be.  Phil, thank you so much for all your help.  You are going to charge me for all this knowlege!  By the way would it be rude to ask what your occupation is?  I am a Legal Assistant in a large law firm on the west coast of Florida.  As you can tell I am not a spelling teacher.  I wish I knew how to use the darn spell check on this site.  My husband just says I am a HIGH MAINTENANCE WOMAN in the medical sense.  All of my income goes toward my medical expenses. Gets very frustrating to say the least.  I think that I should start calling you "Doctor" Phil HA HA HA.

[to Vicodin Gurll]

Yes, they treat you respectfully and of course it is confidential.  He is certified in addiction medicine.  They do have a lot of patients so don't expect an hour with the doctor.  I'm not sure the distance from NYC, check the website, or call them.  You don't take the medicine there anyway, you wait until the morning you feel like detoxing, without having any narcotic since the night before.  It is essential to wait UNTIL you are starting to have some withdrawal symptoms, otherwise the buprenorphine will start withdrawal.  The results ARE immediate (it will immediately STOP withdrawal symptoms).  Buprenorphine is an opiate, but is a unique one with agonist/antagonist properties.  What this means is, that while it occupies the opiate receptors (and hence keeps you from having withdrawal symptoms), it also rids the opiate receptors of the other opiates.  It does not make you "high."  As I said above, ONLY doctors with a special DEA allowance can use it for detox.  ANY doctor could prescribe it for pain, and just kind of wink at you because they know you will use it for detox.  Only a doc with whom you have a great relationship would do this because it is not legal.  I'm not sure how far off it is when all docs will be able to use it for detox--perhaps 6 months or more.  As to my profession, I'd rather not say at the moment.  I have a post-graduate degree and am a professional.  Phil

[Mike P. to anonymous guy who's mad at me]

Hey man - I was trying to find some kind of humour in the pain that we all suffer from - be it chronic pain and/or addiction. I wasn't mocking you, I "resemble your remark". I didn't mean to offend you. I would love to try buprenorphine. Can't. Like tom said, not legal in California. I thank you greatly for your wisdom and your advice on the matter. Until then, I need to get by myself, any way possible. And if it means being "amused" by our predicament, so be it. I wasn't laughing "ha ha" I was saying "Damn, what a vicious circle this is...Ha ha. It sucks." I don't like it either, but I'm not going to get all bent out of shape and fail to see some kind of light at the end of this tunnel. What I said in my first post still stands for me. I think it's ironically amusing that we can't break out of this circle. Without some humour, my hope is gone. Not a good place to be. I'm sorry for offending you, I'm right there with you. I don't think you can BE an ADDICT without "relapsing" right? Otherwise, by definition, you're not. You walked away from it. Nothing to relapse from. So maybe it's the semantics that I'm finding "amusing". Saying you're a "relapsing addict" is kinda funny and redundant. That's all, nothing more, nothing less. Have a great day.

[for Sick and scared/beware of Vicky!!]

I am confused here. How do you really know if your addicted in the first place? By just walking away from it? Period?
I took oxys for a year. I ran out. I got sick of the same old thing with the doctor. I said screw it. I will deal with the pain. I walked away. I never looked back. Yeah, I got a little sick for a few days but I just kept very busy. So if nothing happened to me and I have learned to live with the pain since I was told that I had permanent nerve damage, I figured I cant live off of pain meds for the rest of my life, so I gave up.
So, tell me, am I an addict because I had withdrawl symptoms? Am I going to relapse some day as all narcotic users do?
I hope someone answers me here. Hey "Doc" Dan, you seem to be informed here.......what do you think?
Thanks
Missy

[vickyvortex to Missy]

No offense, but if you are not an addict, and you are not using, why are you spending your time surfing a board like this?  Obviously it is still on your mind....

[for Sick and scared/beware of Vicky!!]

Because someone told me once that once you use narcotics long term you automatically become addicted so one day I looked it up on a search engine, it took me here, I read some posts and decided to ask some questions..........

[for Sick and scared/beware of Vicky!!]

Hey Missy
To answer your question, you can take narcotics and not become addicted in the sense that addicts are. Anything used long term and then stopped will set off withdrawl symptoms. That doesnt mean your an addict unless of course you crave them, obsess over them, try to obtain them where ever you can. If you havent done any of the above then you are not a drug seeker. Just a user. There is a biggggggggggg difference.
Hope this helps and feel free to stick around. Nobody OWNS this place or has the right to tell you if you belong here or not. I have seen many posts from people asking questions about loved ones out of concern and the people that posted those are NOT USERS.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

This buprenorphine may be some kind of miracle drug for the dreaded withdrawals, but in my opinion it's only a bandaid.  Detox from opiates is not the biggest problem we face as addicts.  It's the relapse.  The old saying, "out of sight, out of mind" simply does not apply to addiction.  The desire to use really never leaves most of us.  I've had some long periods of abstinence(years)and BOOM!  Here we go again.  For me it's like being on a merry-go-round that never stops.  If I could have an operation to remove the part of my brain that causes all this grief, I'd have it done today!  For a lot of us, Devine Intervention is the only answer but unfortunately it's not 100% foolproof.

[to Vicodin Gurll]

Hi.  I agree totally with your post (in most respects).  Relapse prevention is FAR more important than detox.  However, many people don't try to quit, or don't follow through with quitting, because when they try the withdrawal symptoms are simply so uncomfortable they go back to using to feel relief.  That's why buprenorphine is so important.  It enables people who REALLY want to quit to get off the opiate without the discomfort that often leads to failure.  Once off the opiates; however, it is up to the user to use other tools to STAY off the drugs.  Like you say, that "desire" or craving for the opiates is the big danger, and unless people have a plan in place to deal with it, they are doomed to failure.  This is why NA works well for many people.  By having a forum to share the cravings with other addicts, it is often possible to let them go away without acting.  Usually, cravings last a short period of time.  If one is able to resist them they go away.  The longer one is abstinent from opiates, the cravings get less frequent and less intense.  Many former opiate users say although they may never totally go away, over time they become so infrequent and so mild they are easy to deal with, ESPECIALLY if you are in a program like NA where you can deal with them with the help of other addicts.  Take care and good post!  Phil

[to Vicodin Gurll]

I tried to post an answer to your post, it didn't show up on my computer so I hope I'm not responding twice.  Anyhow, I agree with you that withdrawal is less important than relapse.  However, many addicts who want very badly to get off the opiates don't do so because of fear of the horrible withdrawal symptoms.  So many people have posted here about making it 2 days or so of withdrawal before going right back to opiates because they couldn't stand the withdrawal symptoms.  That's where buprenorphine is so helpful.  For those who REALLY want to quit, it makes it possible to do so without horrible withdrawal.  Then of course is the hard part, staying off the drugs.  Although I'm not a huge NA fan, groups like that really do help alot with staying off narcotics.  By being in a group, having a sponsor, when the cravings come (as they are sure to), one is able to use tools to keep from using.  As time goes on, cravings lessen.  But you're absolutely right, staying off the drugs is FAR more difficult than getting off them.  Take care, Phil

[vickyvortex to someone]

I don't recall having said anything about Missy not belonging, merely questioning why she felt compelled to cruise this site.  She answered my question.  I also agree with your answer, although you did come off as snippy as me.

[for Sick and scared/beware of Vicky!!]

I am sorry.....I didnt mean to come off as snippy toward you.
Thats all I have to say if you can believe that! Usually I am good at typing small novels.
Hang tight everyone and PEACE!  We are all here to help each other right?

[vickyvortex]

Sorry, I don't mean to be uptight.  I am sorry to everyone I have offended. Peace.
However, I do have some thoughts on what an addict is:  1)IF one pill makes you feel good, then two will be even better. 2)You don't REALLY need a pill, but you feel you deserve something to get you through your day.  3) You know the pills don't really help the pain, but dammit, I don't care. 4) You keep going through withdrawals because you have taken a months supply in one week, swearing the next time, you are going to take as directed, and yup, they're gone in a week, AGAIN.  Now this is not intended for those who are in REAL PAIN and have not exibited the above tendancies.  And for anyone who is offended, I am all of the above.  However, I now practice what I call good hydro management.  I got sick of the sickness, and try to take my prescribed dose.  Your body WILL get used to it, if it knows it is not getting any more.  Knowing you only have a day or two of withdrawals is a whole hell of a lot better than two weeks!!!
Love and Kisses to all fellow sufferers

[for Sick and scared/beware of Vicky!!]

Vicky
I fit alot of the description in your post and I also suffer from terrible chronic pain. I think we may run out of our meds fast because the doctor wont give us the right medicine we need to control our pain. Doctors are not willing to understand that after a while a tolerance builds and they need to either increase our dosage or be put on something different for a change. Usually the problem is we increase it ourselves, go through the script 2 weeks early and then when the doc finds out how much we took, they get pissed and cut us off totally without trying to find another way to handle our pain management. Doctors suck. I hate the way they label chronic pain patients as drug addicts!!  They just dont seem to have doctors that care anywhere. I only looked a few times for a new doctor because after being treated like some druggie, I just gave up. BUT, (there is always a "but")  I did like the feeling I got from vicodin and I feel guilty as hell because this is the first time I am admitting it on here as well as to myself. I always thought I just liked the feeling of relief and that is what I got from vicodin!  So I dont know exactly where I fit in at this point.
One more thing, dont apologize for venting or getting on someones case when you feel the need on here cause believe me it helps. Even if people come here, read the posts and never add anything to them, they all sit back and evaluate their own situations and I know it helps people see themselves in a different light. It helps to see themselves in other people. It helps to see that other people think and feel the exact same way they do when it comes to using narcotics!
It sure got me thinking!!
TAke care and keep warm!

[vicky to missy]

You said everything I feel.  Thank you.  Like you, I also enjoy the feeling of the vicodin.  I feel more outgoing, get more things done, am better at my job when I am on vicodin.  It does not interfere with my life WHEN I have them. I also take valium for anxiety, but it seems to have more of an effect on others, apparantly my behavior changes. I have learned how to manage my withdrawal.  I still function, go to work, but that's about it.  I do not have children, so I can afford to go home and just crawl into bed.   I went into rehab, even my doctor knew!!! However, he told me, get this, " I'll be there for you when you get out."   They made me go cold turkey. A big mistake.  My husband finally told me that for right now I shouldn't deal with that because mentally it was too much. I live in a state that is very conservative, I believe that the bupherenine(?) is illegal.
So, I have decided I am going to stay on the vicodin for pain and for pleasure.  If and when my doctor cuts me off, I will deal with it.  But for now, I try not to abuse my meds too much, I do not buy off the street and I am terrified of the thought of being cut off.  I am not afraid of the withdrawals, but I am afraid I will not be able to function normally after the physical withdrawals wear off.  For example, will I always think things would be better if I just had a vicodin, will my endorphins come back, what about pain?  Sorry for rambling, but thank you for writing me.  It was very comforting.

[shayna to phil]

hi again guys, i'm trying once more to lower my own dosage (from 10-15 e.s. per day) i am down to about 7 or 8 for the last 4 days. i cant ever seem to get below that. i've been steadily increasing for about 3 years. the talk of buprenorphine has my attention. i live in new orleans, does anyone know where it may be available near here? also, how do i go about looking for one of these out patient addiction doctors? where do i look? who do i ask? please help me if you can. i am not a chronic pain sufferer, i'm only in it for the high. i am at that hating myself stage. i am spending way too much money for this stuff, i get it all off the street. thanks again everyone.                                                                              good luck, shayna

[for Sick and scared/beware of Vicky!!]

Hi Vicky
Yes your endorphins will come back because my pain seemed worse while on vicodin and then when I would have to decrease my intake to preserve the pills since, as usual, I went through them too fast, the pain would seem so awful. Finally once I was off of them for a few months I thought gee, my back actually hasnt hurt half as bad as it did before. But dumb me, I thought it was because I moved from the North to the South where the weather is more mild that was the reason for my back not hurting as much, the nicer weather climate. DUH! After reading so much on here I realized it was because of my endorphin levels were getting back on track. Like I said before, I have been off of narcotics for a long time, give or take when I had to have a tooth pulled etc....and after the 20 pills were gone ( and can you believe this one, I actually took one every 6 hours as needed for pain!!) ITS A MIRACLE:)
I do think that I would have a better quality of life if I had my pain medicine. I wouldnt have to sit on a heating pad for 30 minutes before I was able to really get moving) I would feel better all the way around. But is that the addiction or is that the comfort part knowing that I would suffer less??
I am glad I can talk to you about this and finally have someone understand exactly where I am coming from.

[to Vicodin Gurll]

Shayna, finding a clinic or doc using buprenorphine for detox should be relatively easy.  Start with the yellow pages, look under addiction.  Call programs listed and ask if they use it outpatient.  Ask them also if they know of any docs using it outpatient.  Look for local docs who are members of the Addiction Medicine Society (I think that's what it is called).  Check out www.addictionresourceguide.com for info and leads as well.  Good luck.  With a bit of detective work you should find a doc/program where you can detox with buprenorphine.  Believe me, it's worth the effort.  Vicky & Tom, buprenorphine is not illegal anywhere in the U.S.  It is available from ANY doctor for pain relief, and is actually a schedule IV medication due to its low abuse potential.  When used for detox, docs/programs need a special DEA clearance.  While there aren't tons of docs that have it, anyone living near a major metropolitan center should easily find docs/programs using it.  As to everyone else, I can't believe I'm the only one here who has detoxed with it.  ANYONE ELSE OUT THERE WHO HAS USED IT??  I'm just curious, plus I thought it would be good to have some input from others.  Thanks!  Phil

[tom to Phil]

what's your definition of a "little" detective work? I just spent two hours on-line and on the phone looking for a clinic offering buprenorphin detox. Bupren-what? Opiate Agonists? "Oh, yes, I'm sure you're in agony. All addicted persons are." Apparently the east coast is the place to be for recoverying opiate addicts. Every clinic I contacted in Orange County, SoCal just wanted to benzo-me up, slap a clonodine patch on my chest and do the NA 12-step tap dance on my brain. At least I could find a methadone clinic that admitted to dispencing the stuff. Anyone who seriously tries to find help with opiate addiction discovers that it's a jungle of conflicting information or no information at all. If anyone happens to have found a clinic using buprenorphin for out-patient detox in Orange County, California, I'd appreciate a post, or at least a hint. Thanks in advance.

[to Kat]

I feel for you.  Goddamn, buprenorphine is SUCH a good detox med it f*in SUCKS you can't find it out there.  And I THOUGHT California was so progressive?  Guess not.  Maybe? you're not finding it on the net b/c you're not putting the e on the end.  I hope that's the reason.  Also, these stupid clinics I find are Soooo reluctant to tell you what they will detox you with.  Like we addicts are so stupid we'll just put our faith in them to use a good medication!!  Keep trying and I'll look also.  Together we have GOT to be able to find you a place, within driving distance for you.  P.S. are you looking for detox or maintainence?  Using bup for maintainence is REALLY new, and only progressive clinics are trying this, so you may not find one near you for that.  Good luck, I'm pulling for you.  Phil.  P.S.  Love your posts!

[Mike P. to Ken]

I think California maybe a little reluctant to give up the reigns on who's making what money off of who addict wise. I have heard time and again that methadone should be taken off the market - it's NOTHING but big business ($) and no easier to get "off" of than anything else. Now, if Buprenorphine is READILY available for under $200, why would anyone check themselves into a $5,000 Bed and Breakfast for addicts anymore here in the Golden State? I think you see where I'm going with this. It's very unfortunate that the powers that be REALLY WANT us to stay where we're at. The bureaucracy that has been created because of our "problem" and that is sustained by our "problem" MUST keep going - for them to line their pockets. It may sound like a grand conspiracy theory, but stranger things do happen. Like tom said, the conflicting information, doctors, facilities etc. are set up that way for a reason. If detox is truly as simple as "Here, take this Buprenorphine. 1 shot subcutaneously every 8 hours (or whatever) for 1 week...then you're done. Drive through." This drug must be making medical personel everywhere - nervous. And I hope someone doesn't tell me that all doctors or even most really want to see anyone "cured" of this or any other illness. I have been through the ringer w/the medical professionals and I can safely say that the ones that stay in that field categorically do NOT care. The ones that DO care have or are getting out of the profession that basically ties their hands in terms of REALLY helping anyone. The are joining the Peace Corp. become vets etc. - where they can practice Helping People, not the insurance companies, their colleagues etc. The bottom line is that Medicine® is big business. We're the consumers.

[to Kat]

Damn good post.  I totally agree with your sentiments.  Also glad to hear buprenorphine worked so well for you.  It did for me too.  The drug is a miracle for anyone wanting off narcotics, painlessly.  Let's hope enough addicts clamor for it that it will be readily available EVERYWHERE.  Thank God for me I live on the East Coast where I can get it easily.  Phil

[Nanc]

I am so glad to have found this site, while I am just 3 wks post-op from my 3rd back surgery! Because I have concerns over coming off my pain meds now. I injured my back 2 years ago and have been on vicoden most of that time. The catch is that I am also a recovering alcoholic with 5.5 years sober. What the meds do for me are.....take away the pain!!But I know from recovery and also being a nurse is that I will have withdrawl. I had not heard of Buprenex, but thank goodness I know now!! I prefer my life drug free. I do not consider myself an addict, because I don't have those "using" behaviors. and just because a person would go through withdrawl, does not make them an addict.

I would like some comments from those who have used buprenex or other drugs to detox as to what to expect. I'm not apprehensive about not having my "drugs" anymore, I am about the physical detox. I've been through alcohol withdrawl hell and I don't want to go there again.

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

I've read Phil's posts about buprenorphine, and he's correct.  I've used it to detox several times (which just goes to show detox is the EASY part!), and it works great.  You can expect to use the buprenorphine for 3-7 days, depending on where you go (some places use it for much longer, but IMHO that isn't necessary unless you are dealing with someone using hard core for many many years continuously).  The buprenorphine is best taken in the morning, when withdrawal symptoms are just starting.  In other words, you use your narcotic at night, last dose, wake up in the morning AND DON'T USE the narcotic, and wait for withdrawal symptoms to start.  You don't need to wait until they are bad, just beginning.  Then you inject the bup subcutaneously and according to whatever schedule they prescribe.  I've found 2 dosing methods that work well.  One is to use 1 shot of Buprenex every 6 hrs. the first day, every 8 hrs the second, every 12 hrs the 3rd and 1 shot the 4th day.  Another method is to take a larger amount at once the first day (equivalent to just over 3 Buprenex ampules (1 mg), wait 24 hrs, then inject .8; 24 hrs. later .6; and so on until last .2.  Worked great both ways.  At the end, you feel almost no withdrawal symptoms, but, with any detox, you will still potentially have the mental symptoms (mild depression, craving a bit, etc.).  The physical symptoms are almost nil.  Good luck.

[shayna to phil]

thanks for the advice, i'm going to try the website you suggested now. i'll let you know how it goes. if ya'll know of any other helpful websites i would appreciate it. i am definitely figuring out that i can't do this by myself. i really thought i could. thanks everyone for all the advice and prompt responses. happy thanksgiving

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Sounds like we are all at different levels, in and out of recovery, or not at all.  Myself, clean of Vicoden ES for approx. one month.  I went through detox myself at home at must be honest...can't see myself ever taking codiene ever again.  My personal experience with withdrawal was a horrible and near death experience.  I hear of scared straight...so far it works for me.  I have access to the stuff, but am TERRIFIED of it, as I know that it is more powerful than I am.  My body has just now begun to produce it's own endorphins and it feels wonderful.  And, it costs a lot less.  I still suffer depression, but at least I am feeling something.  Everyone, hang in there.  Be thankful for everything you have.  Be afraid of the pills, be strong.  Neena

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

Shayna, good luck to you and please let us know how you are.  Remember, you're not alone and any questions you have or help you need, we can all put our heads together!  Neena, it is wonderful to hear you are starting to feel better.  The healing process will continue, BUT BEWARE, most addicts after going through withdrawal SWEAR the memory of it will keep them clean.  At the time they truly believe it.  However, most of them end up relapsing as time goes on.  One addiction doc told me he thinks it is because the mind has a great propensity for, over time, diminishing the impact of traumatic things, whereas the mind also has a way of over dramatizing the good things.  He says this is a natural protective mechanism, to keep us from not surviving tragedy in our lives.  It usually is a good thing, such as a rape survivor eventually getting on with life and trusting others.  But, for addicts it is a very bad thing, because as time goes on the memory of your withdrawal will NOT be very powerful, and the memory of the good feelings from the drugs will increase.  Believe me, it happened to me and millions of others.  I guess what I'm saying is, you hear from docs and NA and other "experts" in addiction that if you rely on the memory of withdrawal to keep you clean YOU WILL RELAPSE!  You must find other ways to also help keep you clean.  Perhaps NA, perhaps some other group, or something else you find works for you.  If bad withdrawal was all it took to keep addicts clean, there wouldn't be so many addicts relapsing, often numerous times.  I remember thinking it would keep me clean.  It obviously didn't.  I'm sure if others here chime in they will support what I'm saying based on their own personal experiences.  I wish you all the best and you have your life back again.  I just pray you do what is necessary to KEEP IT!  Brian

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Thank you for your wise advice.  I know that it is true because after childbirth without any drugs at all, needless to say, it was horrible, and everyone told me that I would forget the pain and all.  For six months, I was still pissed that they have me nothing for pain or an epidural, but now as you have guessed, I have forgotten the pain that I endured.  Although, I do have a beautiful 21 month old daughter to show for it and absolutely nothing to show for my addiction, but humiliation and no endorphins in my brain.  I am very aware of the old adage...I'll never do THAT again...but for now...it's all that I have.  Today, this very minute, I have no codiene in my system and that's all that matters.  Thanks for your support and I do have a support person, as she is a recovered crack addict.  She is tough and would beat the living sh-t out of me if she suspected anything and trust me, if you knew this woman...that alone would make me think twice. :)  Neena

[Von]

I've been taking Vicodin ES for the past 3 years, for severe pms and related pain, and migraines.  I've also taken Xanax for the past 7 years for anxiety, I now take the 2 mg white bars, up to 3 per day.  I'm prescribed 180 Vicodin Es per month.  I know it sounds like a lot, but I generally run out of Vicodin a week before my next refill.  I guess it's tolerance, but it's hard to manage sometimes on 6 per day.  My doctor recently prescribed Roxicodone as a supplement when I need more than 6 a day.  I've experienced the Vicodin withdrawals many times, it's extremely unpleasant.  But it is very effective for the severe pms I have and the migraines, it knocks the pain and symptoms right out.  I have never had any Xanax withdrawals, even when I have gone a day or two without, or cut down my dose.  It's the Vicodin I have trouble managing, if I can't stretch my script out to last the month, it's a nightmare until I can get more.  I don't want to go off of them, I just want to manage my intake better.  Does anyone else have a similar problem?
Regards,
Von

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

Of course, lots of people have that same problem.  Short-acting opiates were never meant to be prescribed for long-term chronic pain, for the very reason you describe.  Your tolerance will continue to increase, and you will continue to run out of pills early.  At some point it is likely your doc will get nervous about you becoming (or being) addicted, and will start to cut down your dosage or do what lots of stupid docs do, cut you off altogether.  So...what to do.  Have you seen a migraine specialist?  They rarely prescribe opiates since they aren't the best treatment for migraines.  Further, they cause rebound pain.  I know you don't want to hear this, because I suspect you are chasing the "high" in your drugs, but, you really are not being treated properly.  PMS doesn't require round the clock opiates.  Migraines don't either, UNLESS, all other treatments have been tried and failed AND you are having 'round the clock pain.  You see don't you that at some point the game will end, and the narcotics will not continue.  Or, if they do, you will continue to go through withdrawal each month waiting for the next refill, because your tolerance will increase.  Not a great way to live.  Find a better doctor.  Brian

[Patrice]

To Shelly in Florida

Hi There is 2 Cities in Florida that have doctors that have the lisence to disperse buprenphine/naloxon treatment.  Its Miami and Tampa.  Im on this program in California and asked my doc where this was offered in the US so I can tell people.  If you live anywhere near those cities, please call an addiction specialist and find out. Mine is different than the one Dr. Goberman does.  It is a 9 week to one year detox, he does it with the pills.  You put them under your tounge (sp).  It works great for me.  I was taking 100 mg of norco a day. and shooting a gram of heroin, and once I started this detox, I am feeling great.  I only had one bad day, the first day.  If you need anymore info please e mail me at ***@**** and I will be happy to help.  Plus NA meetings are a life saver for me too!!!
Take Care

Patrice

[Von to Brian]

Hi Brian, and thanks for your input. I do realize that many people have the same problem with opiate dependency, however, I do not want to go off of them completely, I just want to manage my intake better. You suggest finding another doctor, well, I've been with my doctor for 14 years now and trust him completely. We have tried many medications to alleviate my severe pms and related pains, the migraines, and also chronic lower back pain which he believes is related to a car accident I had as a teenager.  He's ordered tests and back x-rays to find out what long term damage may have occurred.  My doctor will not "cut me off completely" nor will he "get nervous" about my intake.  He does not succumb to the "opiaphobia" many doctors succumb to and as a result, end up under treating patients.  We have a very good doctor-patient relationship and I can talk to him about anything.  He's already assured me he will not change my medication regimen. You may not agree with his assessment and treatment, but it's the only thing that's worked for me.  I don't plan to ask for an increase in Vicodin, I simply want to manage my 180 per month supply I've had for 3 years.  I've told him I sometimes need more than 6 per day, and instead of "cutting me off" he prescribed Roxicodone as a supplement because it does not contain the high levels of acetametaphine that Vicodin has, he said it's the Tylenol that can be harmful if taken in too high of a dose.  But I hear what you are saying, and I know I tend to "chase the high" as you say.  I'm trying to not do that.  My doctor's specialty is pain management, by the way, and he has helped me in that regard.  Managing my intake is my responsibility, and I don't blame him for that.
Sincerely,
Von

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

God, you sound exactly like me!  I was on the same regimen, and thought I just needed better pill management.  Guess what honey, you're never going to have good pill management.  There isn't such a thing for addicts!  What you will have is what I had...increasing amounts needed because of tolerance, continued withdrawals...eventually just couldn't get enough pills.  PMS doesn't last a month!  What you're really doing is just getting high.  The game will end one day, so why put yourself through hell until then.  I finally learned and amazingly enough my pain is dealt with now with a few advil.  It's incredible how the narcotics deplete your brain of the ability to naturally deal with pain.  Oh well.  It's clear from your post you're gonna continue using.  Some people have to hit rock bottom before they learn.  i hope that doesn't have to happen to you.  Ginger :-)

[Cindy]

10 years ago i went into treatment for opiate addiction    I was using massive amounts of everything.  to make a long story short   I worked in a hospital as a nurse and the very first drug I stole was the Buprenex.  the drug they are now using to detox.  can't really say whether or not I was addicted to it cuz I gradually crawled up the drug ladder to stronger drugs. I do remember when I ran out of drugs on my days off etc.  i always kept a stash of buprenex to ease the withdrawals.  so it does work for detox but remember it is also a mood altering substance or i would never had started using it.  cindi

[Von to Brian]

Hi Ginger, thanks for the reply. I understand what you're saying, and perhaps you're right. My pms and related pains last almost 2 weeks out of each month, I get sporadic migraines which are quite painful, and this chronic lower back pain is always there.  The OTC meds simply don't work for me, and the Vicodin not only eliminates the pain, but it makes it easier for me to  keep up with my running and workouts.  If my doctor says my monthly intake is too much or needs to be cut down, whatever, I'll abide by that, but he hasn't given any indication that needs to happen.  
Nice to meet you!
Von

[Ginger to Von]

Nice to meet you too!  An please don't think I'm being critical or presume to know your situation, but...don't rely on the doc to understand addiction.  Most of the people here had docs gladly prescribing the meds that got them addicted.  Docs simply don't get much addiction training and you have to rely on YOURSELF not the doctor to take care of you.  I just worry that you may be doing what so many of us did, feeling justified in your use because it is "doctor prescribed".  This can be a dangerous way of thinking, so PLEASE be careful!!  Take care of yourself.  Ginger

[Nanc]

does this make sense to anyone? My doc switched me from vicodin to vicprofen for 2 weeks and now to ultram! and as far as I know,it is non-narcotic,but is supposed to block the opioid receptors. now does this stuff work? will I go through the withdrawl symptoms? it scares me to death about the withdrawl thing and to use the bup was never addressed. this is driving me nuts, any replies?

[Patrice]

Iwas on the buprenex/Nalxon program for 6 weeks.  I still craved the heroin so bad I can taste it.  I walked off the detox this Monday and am taking 3-4 10mg vics a day, I dont feel them, because the NX is still in my system.  Last night I shot some dope(GOD I didnt even mean to) but it happened.  I am lost scared and dont know what to do.  I want to be loaded, hell, Ive been in NA for 16 years, and had many happy years clean, but now I am stuggling, I know for a fact , that addicts like me, who had a lot of time, dont ever make it again.  I need help, could somebody e mail me at ***@****.  I need to talk, and figure out whats going on with me, my husbands no help in this matter, because he just suffered another nervous breakdown, and I NEED to talk

Thank you and take care


Patrice

[Kristina To Patrice]

Patrice, I know you feel horrible right now. I know ittakes many attempts at getting  clean with alot of people. PLease please you might have to check in somewhere. If your going to shoot.If have toget high please be careful... you'll over due and then you'll be DEAD!  I wish there was  something else Icould offer you but I feel helpless.

[Aileen]

This is a great site I stumbled upon and like all the others I have become addicted to Vicodin after a couple of recent surgeries.  I am just starting my withdrawal symptoms (heeby jeebies, couldn't sleep due to "happy legs", upset stomach, headache and all that fun stuff.  I weaned myself off gradually so the withdrawals wouldn't be so bad.  I'm a big baby when I know I am going to suffer pain, I guess.  I took myself down to 1/2 of one pill twice a day for a couple of days and I still felt OK (no withdrawal symptoms)... but the first night I had NO narcotics in my body - LOOKOUT!  Now, my question is, if detox is easy with buprenorphine (by the way, I am a "Golden State" dweller myself), wouldn't that encourage rather than DIScourage taking Vicodin in the future?!  I mean, if the pain is BAD, maybe you wouldn't want to put yourself through it again, but if you know it WON'T BE SO BAD WITH BUPRENEX, you will "backslide" easier...   Just a thought...

[Jake]

I have gone through withdrawls before and it sucks.  You have been on them a while and it will probably take about seven to ten days.  What I have done in the past is replace reality and the vics with other drugs like mussle relaxers and marijuana.  It isn't what you want to hear but vics are like heroin, only time will get rid of the bends.  I am going through the same thing with the knee injury right now and in about two weeks will be in your shoes hating life and wanting more vics.  It helps if you wean off the vics by taking two or three a day for about a week.  At least you did get a beta-blocker.  Vics are very scary and you have to be strong and just wait;only time has cured me of the withdrawls.  drink a lot of tea and use powder clonix for your digestive system because all the chalk and aspirin makes you constipated.  It will help flush the unwanted toxins out of your system. Hopefully by now you are past the rugh part, but now is the hard part, trying to go through the rest of your life without wanting another vic for the "mental pain".  peace out

[steve]

dude i have been addicted to vikes for 13 years is hard. Talk to your dr try neurontin and phenobarital. it helps with the withdraws. you will start feeling normal in 2 weeks. late..

[steve]

dude i have been addicted to vikes for 13 years is hard. Talk to your dr try neurontin and phenobarital. it helps with the withdraws. you will start feeling normal in 2 weeks. late..

[Bobbie]

I'm still taking it and am afraid to stop. But I only take one to two pills a day. Maybe that's not a "problem" but I do feel very connected to it. It gives me a little surge of happiness and energy. Is that normal?

[tom]

Have been taking 2-3 vicoprofen 7.5 mgs per day for 1 year.  I got all my pills from a friend who works for a doctor.  The Drug Rep would bring in boxes of the stuff as samples (20 per box).  My friend would bring them home to me.  I just started to realize that maybe this wasn't such a good thing, and never realized how closely Vico was related to HEROIN.  Withdrawl symptoms seem to be very similar.  Gradually weaned myself down to 1 per day over a  week and a half (I think I should have spread this over a longer time span, due to my heavy withdrawls) Took my last pill Sunday night January 15, 2001.  Monday was cool, Tuesday OK, Wednesday Back and Leg Cramps Yesterday and today seriously going through major withdrawls.  Have slept at most, 10-15 hours since Monday night.  Wake up, with the "Happy Legs", extreme back pain, diarrhea setting in, just an overall bad feeling.  My friend is getting me some XANAX to help with the withdrawls, or at least to take some of that EDGE OFF.  Saw it mentioned on here in some posts.  I seriosly didn't realize how addicted or dependent I'd become, in reading some of the posts on here it has helped me to realize that I'm not the only one with these troubles.  Also good information and support.  I don't think I need to attend any support groups ... yet.  

It always amazes me how ordinary all you/me are in terms of our lives.  I always thought Addicts were lying in street gutters, or robbing everyone blind.  I read about a mom with an addiction that has children.  Scary!!  Good luck to all.  

I hope I can stay clean off these pills.  I've instructed my friend to never bring them home or call in a prescription for me again.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

You take only one or two pills per day and that is a very low dose.  I would say that you are more mentally hooked than physically dependent.  You could try stopping for a day or two to see if you develop any of the classic physical withdrawal symptoms.  I take Lorcet as prescribed and do not suffer any withdrawals if I skip a day.  Yes, the little surge of happiness and energy is normal.  But remember the old rule of thumb saying:
"Do anything for five days and it becomes a habit, do anything for thirty days and you become an addict!".  If you are indeed taking the meds for legitimate reasons and not abusing them, you are simply drug dependent.

[cheryl hergert]

you are all friggin crack heads.   i hope u all have a horrible relapse and die of ghonnerea and rot in hell!!

[spook]

I enjoy getting high on Opioids,of course the withdraws are unpleasant,I went for 14 years without using sometimes I get high everyday for a month then stop for a year,I really do not think their is much more to it.

[spook]

Their are people who can help with your anger problem.
good luck I hope you do not waste to much of your life FEELING anger.Its a pretty boring emotion really.

[kitty gurl]

comment above

[kitty gurl]

Help, is there any natural way to detox of vicoden.  I have insomnia, sweats, anxeity, depression, and just a plan disgusting feeling.

[Raul707]

Well I have to say after reading most of the posts, we are all in the same boat. In 2001 I was injured at work (ruptured biceps tendon & 3 herinated disks t12, L4,& L5. Workmans comp took care of my bicep but had concernes about my back. It's now 2008 & been on pain meds since 2001 and Workman's comp is now takeing care of my back. It has taken me 3 weeks to taper down on my meds. By no way am I a doctor....but, here is how I stepped down...
First I took half of my prescribed pain meds & took them as directed every 4 to 6 hours. As it became uncomfortable I would stretch my time between doses from 5 to 7 hours & then added 30 minutes to the time until I could adjust to every 8 hours. Believe me there was some discomfort but keeping my mind busy was the key! Exercise produces endorphines that make for well being. I also would take methedone to replace the narcotics when my pain was tolerable.

As far as the depression...well it was there but again excercise was brought my spirits up. I road my mountain bike or went walking and listened to music (the music of my youth or better times in my life worked best because it produced memories of really good times) .There have been times were I felt normal & happy just out of no where, so I know my brain is starting to produce dopeamine & seratonin on it's own.

I'm on my last part of withdrawls wich is anxiety. The constant sleepiness and flu like symptoms have almost completely gone. There is hope & light at the end of the tunnel.

Don't forget about our creator. he or it is always there to help, but we need to ask.

If you believe in Darwin's theory, remember...the pills we became addicted to didn't elvolve...they were too created.

P.S. I mean no disrespect to anyones belive's or religions. Just some food for thought

[liscamdave]

Raul..no one will read this as you posted on an old thread. Create a new thread by re-typing this. Click on Post Question and you can make a new thread.

Welcome to medhelp.

Lisa

[dru6704]

Im a 22 year old, 5 year addict.I started taking Vicodin occasionally, skipping school, trying to catch a buzz from almost anything. today, i eat around 10 to 15 vicodin and/or lorecet, and/or percocet daily. Ive lost my job and pretty much cannot afford my drugs anymore. So I guess you could say I feel forced to detox. Ive been wanting to detox for a longtime now, but under my own conditions. Today is day 1. Ive been awake for 2hours and cannot believe how much my body depended on the narcs. hot flashes, splitting headache, 100% body aches, nausea, irratibility... is there anything I can do to reduce this? Ive heard little things about Suboxin? i think its like methadone is for heroin? any help would