Vicodin... can't live with it, can't live without it??

[remedyz]

Hi gang. First I want to say that I've been lurking here for about a week and your posts have been invaluable to me in helping me understand what is/was going on with me as I withdrew from Vicodin and Valium.

I'm 25/male, and I have ulcerative colitis (inflammation of the colon). This past January, I came down with it although this time it was preceded by inflammation of the iris in my left eye. It was extremely debilitatingly painful, and i was prescribed vicodin for the pain. During the course of the colitis which lasted about a month or so this time, I kept taking the vicodin and was also given a script for valium/5 to help me sleep while i was on the prednisone (steroid). Once things got better I kept taking the vicodin because I felt it helped me feel confident to re-enter the world without a fear of having to run to the bathroom all the time, it lifted my (situational) depression, gave me loads of energy and basically made me feel like a better than normal human being.

I was using 2-4 vicodin/5 per day, and 10mg valium at night for approx 2 1/2 months - a total of maybe 190 vics + 120 darvocet and maybe 120 valium/5,. Tomorrow at 7am will be 2 weeks since i cold turkeyed. When I stopped i immediately was thrown into a deep depression, anxiety, fear, shaking, cant sleep cant eat, no energy, but no stomach probs or anything too serious. Thought i was losing my mind until the doctor told me i was having withdrawals. They never advised me of anything, they just cut me off and im thinking of suing. Yesterday was the 1st day i started feeling almost normal again.

[remedyz]

Well I just wanted to say that there is a light at the end of the tunnel with withdrawals. I literally thought i was losing my mind and would never survive what i was going through. Now I can start to see the fog lifting from my head. I'm a programmer so its very hard to work when being depressed, cant concentrate, migraines, etc. I can finally see it starting to lift. What i did was acupuncture, herbs, vitamins, eating good, forcing myself to jog some after work, stretch and do some pushups and pullups in the morning, etc. I am still doing this and hope things continue to improve. I still think about pills a bit, but I dont crave them really. I have some street connections and obviously know how to get them online easily, but I am choosing to go drug-free... even if i can see it having a benefit to me medically with the colitis and so forth. I can see it being your best friend and worst enemy in a lot of ways.

[southernbelle]

Hippy ===  I so need your dear advice. I hope you get this message, and I hope you are doing well.  I feel like I'm dying, Hippee.  Not because of withdrawals, I've got a duragesic patch on right now.  I just feel so down.  Do you think I may be bi-polar?  And that's what's led to my addictions?  I hope you are out there listening and can respond to this.  I trust you and I am sitting here crying, not sure what to do.  I have a doc appointment tomorrow --- switching back from the patch to the oxycontin.  I hate myself.
Didn't mean to butt in to this post. Withdrawals are so painful, and I feel for you.

[hippy]

hey bell,
i don't know if i even buy into bi polar,
seems to be the latest fad, it used to be
manic -depressiv then it was  that one where you cant consintrate
attention defict disorder that was big in the ninties.
one thing about A D D nobody has in jail, cause everybody
is at full attention or else ya get your ass kicked.
my sister was tagged with bi polar, she is a real jerk one day
and tries to act normal the next, i think she is just a cruel
sel centerted person who needs to grow up.

sorry to rant, how are you bell, sounds like you got youself in the fire storm of addiction.
sounds like you are heading down a road where you will need a rehab sooner or later, you are just an addict your not crazy,
find an addiction doctor, steer clear of the shrink untill ya
get clean, or get to point where you stabilize you meds with a doctor.
peace !!!!!!!!!hippy ---be back tonight

[MrsRat]

Hey there. :)  I am also a geek and I have Crohn's Disease, Fibro, and some OB/GYN probs, probably caused by the Crohn's.

You didn't say if you went cold turkey off the Pred at the same time you stopped the Vicodin and Valium. Prednisone withdrawal is a real *****. (Why the valium?  Makes no sense, best drug to help relax the gut spasms and help sleep is Donnatal.)

You are correct that the Vicodin can help the D (diarrhea) that you get when you are in a flare, but if you aren't having pain, you can get just as good, if not better, relief from Imodium (immodium) AD.  I *always* have a box of that on my desk!

You didn't say if you needed surgery for your UC or if you went into remission after the course of Pred. (Another thing I don't understand, why weren't you on IBD drugs along with the Pred?)  I gave a little over a foot of my small bowel to the 'cause' back in 2000.  My last flare was about 4 years in length and I finally got into remission this past year.

I post on a forum with others who have UC/Crohn's and you are more than welcome to join us.  Send me an email and I'll give you all the instructions on how to find us.  My email addy is:  ***@****

[Brody]

I hope you don't mind me butting in to your conversation... I'm kinda new around here and I really like this site. It makes me feel like I'm at home with people like me.

Ya know belle, I don't believe Bi-Polar or anything "caused" our addiction. I really belive we were addicts before we picked up our first drugs. I mean, millions of people every day take the same drugs we do and they don't become addicted... why?? What makes us different?? We have a disease, a real medical disease called addiction! I think most addicts share alot of the same traits in common, mostly that we have very little self esteem and drugs make us feel good about ourselves (for awhile) but then when we can't quit, we sink into massive depressions, think about suicide, etc...

I definately understand what you are going through, please hang in there and know that there are people out there who love you even if they don't know you because they have lived your pain. Sometimes you have to let them love you until you can love yourself.

Again, I'm sorry for getting into your conversation, but I really identified with what you were saying belle, and I felt compelled to write.

[rodewc]

Gratz on yr one yr, hippee! I had said that on Good Friday too- but there were so many posts that day that I think the words got lost in all the many good messages. You have helped me so much, esp. when I was really goin' nuts on Day 3 or 4.. That post is one where you shared the story of beauty in nature (the tree), among other beautiful (sober) stories w/ me. Thank you so.

On bipolar.. Yes, it used to be "manic-depressive," but never ADD-HD. Add-HD is just that.. attention deficit.. yada

Bipolar, though, is a horse of a different colour. I wonder... You know Bipolar it is an addiction to excitement countered w/ bouts of depression. Extreme highs and extreme lows. I have read so much on it, and taken so many "net" (online) tests that I wonder if indeed it is not a disease of many addicts.

I, like you, am not sure I buy into it either.. but the more I read, the more I wonder. It is an interesting question and area, and thanks for giving me something to ponder yet again.

Sleep well. This is a great board.

NOLA: I once did a rehab. It was an A/A type thing (2 weeks in-house), not my cuppa tea; however, given the opportunity to do it again, I would. I do not think it was the right kind of treatment for me (or really for a lot of addicts) but I also stayed there w/ a closed mind. Had I the opportunity to do over, I would. With this teeny bit of maturity I have gained (it only took me half a century!), I have learned that i COULD have and SHOULD have taken and used what was positive from that experience.. and there is something positive in everything.. but I was stubborn.

So, I am trying to say, that if you can afford the rehab, go for it! There has to be something good you can take to the bank:)

I am soooooo glad to hear things are working better for you.

rwc

[mystere]

thanks so much for the feedback--It has giving me something to think about!  I really don't want to make any major decisions until I'm totally finished with the physical withdrawals and my head is a little clearer!--I did the rapid naltrexone detox in 1997 (I really believe I was a guinie pig with that) and was hospitalized about a week with the usual AA/Na meetings etc.-plus I went to an outpatient intensive out patient group therapy sesssion for 6 weeks (this was before I was married)--I managed to stay opiate free for 6 months until a doctor Rx those oh so non-addicting Ultrams-HA--A few months of those little puupies ans it was back to my ultimate drug of choice hydro's.  I'm trying to keep an open mind about everything--Anything that will keep me away from hydro's I'm willing to try--anyway you are another one of my guardian angels thanks so much for caring--I hope you are well! Love,Peace, and Prayers, always Mystere/AKA N.O. Lady

[Chezz2]

Glad to see you back and posting again.
ON the patch now? How is that working out for you? I hope it is doing alright.
You will experience some feelings and different stuff due to the type of drug and strength. It is extremely potent.
So hopefully after you get stable on it, some of these things you are experiencing will calm down.
What dose are you on now, and what did you switch to it from?

Chezz

[mrmichael67]

I think some people do actually have bi-polar.  But, I do think many feel it is so easy to put a label on disruptive behavior.....to almost excuse the behavior that is going on.  My sister did that with my nephew.  She says they are thinking he has bi-polarity (does that work?) when I think it boils down to no discipline ever and being spoiled rotten.  I can still hear their arguments....a whole different show.  I certainly don't buy it in that case.  But, I do believe it is a real phenomenon.

[remedyz]

Hey there... I will send you an email to get that other forum information from you, I appreciate it.

In response to your questions- The same time I started withdrawals I dropped from 15mg prednisone to 7.5. I am currently at 5mg now and tapering, about to go off in a week. I also take immuran and asacol as maintenance drugs. I tried entocort with much success when my flare started, but I decided to quit smoking for some odd reason and it caused my flare to get worse and i had to go on prednisone ultimately. I dunno why my doctor gave me Valium to help sleep, I dont even like Valium.. how it makes me feel. I just said "can you give me something to knock me out at night?". I will definitely look into Donnatal, and I'm suprised since the last 3-4 years of having this that i've never heard of it. I've never had surgery for my UC although once it was recommended. Each time it comes, it is very severe sometimes spreading to the entire colon, sometimes isolated to the upper left side, always causing lots of problems and lots of pain... but it always goes away within 2 months no matter what, and when its gone it is like i never had it. No scarring or damage of any kind. The doctors are always extremely suprised at the condition of my body after I recover, I am in perfect health and shape besides during the flare ups.

Also, I've never even been diagnosed. They say I have an immune system problem- that on a cellular level my problem is "like" UC and definitely not Crohns but does not match genetic UC or anything else they have to compare it to.

[River Ratt]

I don't believe in bi-polar. I think that it is a result of the drug abuse and not the cause. It has alot to do with respect. When you are strung out you lose so much respect for yourself that is hard to earn back. When it comes to drug addiction you are your own worst enemy. Just remember that you have a choice to control yourself, don't give yourself any excuses. Take responsibility for your own actions and, even though it is hard, you will find that you will gain respect for yourself through the confusion and fear.And that will make a huge impact on how you feel about everything, especially yourself. Drugs are inanimate objects that don't have control over you unless YOU let them. No excuses.Fight yourself and you will find yourself, and a better life in the process.Good luck.

[peaz]

Hi--How's it going?  What about the people who are diagnosed manic/depressives who  have never abused drugs?    Do you think it's still a matter of control?  My SIL is  bi-polar, and has DEFINITE highs of mass spending and no sleep and hyper-activity, along w/ prononced lows of continual sleep, the very darkest depression, and suicidal tendencies.  The dichotomy is irrefutable.  Do you maintain that brain chemistry has no play in this kind of behavor manifestatton?  There is no chemical imbalance?  Then why is lithium an effective treatment if it's only a matter of control?  This woman takes NO drugs--not even her lithium!!! LOL  I'm not sure I understand what your premise is.  
        Our mindset has a great impact on our physical and emotional well-being: no doubt. But  manic depression is a physiological and psychological condition that, in MY mind, at least, cannot be "controlled" at will..... Tahnks for your input,  Peaz

[hippy]

ya, if i am not the problem there is no solution.
step one in any recovery program is a confrontation
with the truth,it's the same old addadge the thing s
i don't want to do ,i do. and that  , witch i want to do
i don't.

when i have lived the life of a useing addict, i beleive
taht i used because i was afraid the i would not be okay
if i did not use.so my use was always based in fear.
it sort of go's back to when i was a child and they tiold me to pray to god and he would take care of me, well at the age of
10 years old i gave up on waiting for a supreme being to help me
in my nightmare of a life. i began to do what ever it took
to look out for myself, in my teeage years drugs eased my mental
and emotional pain, i self medacated myself, i became my own
god.of cours i went way off course and found myself in a heap of
legal trouble which made me run to the escape of drugs even more.
i destroyed everything in my life that i loved,if i even was capable of love. im not sure if i even had any love in me,
i hated myself for the things i did aginst my will.
back then i was very judgemental of myself and others,
i blamed the world for my problems,and i used everyone
and everything to get what i wanted, a very selfish way of life.
as always that life style only go,s down a few roads, jail,
rehab, or mental hospitals, or death.
i wanted to be clean for years,but my addiction was much stronger
and i kept useing, i hated this about myself.
i finally got clean at 24 and stayed clean in na for 15 years.
during that time i learned alot about my self, and my motivations.
at 39 i started taking pain meds, i had no experence with these,
and i found my self addicted and doing things i did not want to do agian, taking pain meds for real pain throws a monkey wrench
into the whole mess,how to take pain meds without killing myself.
im clean now , but i suffer pain . but i just accept it and deal with it.i would rather be clean then be in a situation where im taking 30 pills in 2 days,
doctors that can help are hard to find,the whole system is
a shame.
seems like we need miricles more then anything else.
and a doctor who cares.
for me it is not impossiable to get and stay clean.
but my track record is that it is impossible for me to take pain meds as prescribed, i guess i am not as grown up and responsable
as i would like to be.
so i will just continue to live a day at a time, do the best i can. stay clean go to N.A. meetings and deal with pain as it arises.
for those that are in chronic pain and have to take pain meds
all my highest respect go's out to you.

peace hippy

[AmberHunter]

hippee, you say your track record says that you are not grown up and responsible enough to take pain meds???

well, from what i see it is the other way around...

you ARE grown up and responsible so you CHOOSE not to take pain meds b/c you know you are an addict and will not take one pill every four hours instead of four pills every hour...

amber

[River Ratt]

Peaz- It is your "brain chemistry" that helps you choose! My friend had been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder after she divorced her husband because he was an alcoholic.The doctor has her on effexor and xanax.Now I feel like the doctor gave my friend a "crutch".I know her problems with anxiety are real and she does not CHOOSE to have them, but HOW she deals with them are her CHOICE!!!! Lets be honest, the difference between people who use and don't use is how they choose to deal with their problems. Either face problems head on and accept responsibility or keep lying to yourself and blaming something or someone else. So it's not about controlling how you feel-it's about controlling how you deal with it.

[peaz]

Normal "anxiety"  and "depression" are not  EVEN CLOSE to being on the same scale as the symptoms of manic depression.  NOT EVEN COMPARABLE.  Apples and oranges.....

[pammy0690]

With all due respect your friends opinion is the one that matters.  Does she feel like the doctor gave her a crutch?  Sometimes we project what our personal opinions are into other peoples situations when we should consider thier thoughts and feelings.  Manic depression is a real disorder cause by real brain chemical activity.  I have seen many teenagers with uncontrolable mood up and downs who had never done drugs when I was a social worker.  Many of them responded well to psychotropic medication that evens them out.  Pamela

[MrsRat]

Hey. :)  I'll be watching for your email.  I'm sure you will love our little group of crazy IBD'ers.  We have a lot of fun trading potty jokes and pictures along with whining about our diseases. (Yes, I do have a picture of the foot of my small gut they cut out of me in 2000 should you wanna see it.)

UC is an immuno disease and I don't understand why you haven't gotten a diagnosis by your doc.  Have you been seeing a G.I. doc or just your GP doc for help with flares?

I'm not surprised you haven't heard of Donnatal.  It's an old drug and you know how docs like to give out the newest ones on the market first.  If you ask for it though, your doc should let you try it.  It's the only drug I've found that can keep my gut spasms under control.  I have IBS along with IBD, so it can get pretty wild in there at times.  I take it at bedtime every night since the phenobarbitol in it makes me real sleepy.  I wake up the next day with no groggy feeling and my gut will stay calm all day.

Don't rush your detox on the Pred.  It's a hard one to get off of.  I normally will drop a mg. a week or so and when I get down to 1 mg. I will take 1 mg. one day, 2 mg. the next, then 1 mg., then 2 mg., then stay at 1 mg. for a week, then get off totally.  That method seems to work the best for everyone I know who's been on Pred for any length of time.  You can do that at any level drop BTW, not just at the lower doses.  It's just normally the low doses that people have problems with when they do a taper off of Pred.  After Pred has had your entire immune system/glands shut down while you were taking it, it's pretty uncomfortable getting them restarted again. Take your time on the drops and you will make it fine though.

I tried to quit smoking once using the patch.  After that my flares got REAL bad and the end result was losing that foot of my small bowel.  I went back to smoking and feel SOOOO much better now.  Your doc probably won't tell you this, but some people who have UC (also a few with Crohn's) and don't smoke, are put on the nicotine patch to help them with their IBD symptoms.  When you are flaring, it is NOT the time to be politically correct and not smoke.  If it helps you, smoke!  I will never stop smoking after what trying to quit did to me.  Smokers may be the new 2nd class citizens of the world, but it's been proven that smoking helps our disease, even though the non-smokers won't admit to that .. they only want to talk about the bad side of smoking, never the good it can do for some people.

There is another type of UC that is very hard to diagnose.  Instead of showing on the inside of the bowel wall, it hits you deep *inside* the lining of the bowel.  They have to take deep biopsies to find it.  I'm wondering if that is the type you have since they say it isn't UC, but acts like it.  It's not as common as UC, so they normally don't check for it.  You may wanna ask your doc to check for it the next time you have a colonoscopy.  In the meantime I will try to find the name of it for you.

We'll talk more in email.  I didn't wanna get too graphic in this post and gross any of the other posters out.  Our diseases tend to do that, when we talk in detail about them. LOL.

[NEW ORLEANS LADY]

You are so right about the medical profession--On the one hand docs are expected to keep patients comfortable and on the other hand they have government agencies breathing down their necks regarding their prescribing practices--Unfortunately non steroidal anti-inflammatory meds i,e, ADVIL, VIOXX, CELEBREX, ANAPROX, ECT, ECT are responsible for more medical problems especially stomach bleeding than narcotics--I really wish I had an answer to this dilemma--I also have pain from a ruptured cervical disc (had surgery fusion didn't take)also pain from an arthritic hip that developed from surgery when I was a child--Sometimes I have trouble walking--Well for now I am pill free and all we can do is the best we can--You are one of my many inspirations!  Much love Hippi--Peace/Prayers N.O. Lady AKA Mystere

[Bunches]

I'm new to this site (and any addiction forums) and am very scared and feel on the edge of losing everything.  I am going into detox monday for the first time and of course, everything about it is making me anxious: the detoxing itself, the facility, what to expect (the unknown), what I'll do when I get out...on and on.  I am trying to taper off and "maintain" through this weekend but even now, as I take one (sorry, Vicodin) to keep the WD away, I get that bit of "rush" and want more.  Is this all about self-discipline and control?? If so, I really fear for myself...I am so my worst enemy.  I feel a bit better, at least as some bit of comfort, having found this site and others going through the same, if not worse.  I appreciate any and all comments to my post.

thank you...

[dancinginthedark]

I'm 100% square behind what Peaz has said.  Obviously, she & I have both had close liaisons with people who are bi-polar & in my case, one who was a substance abuser until the lithium kicked in, wherein she gradually & slowly weaned herself off all the drugs.  Go figure that one out.

Peaz said to compare depression to bi-polar is like comparing apples to oranges.  A-bloody men.  There truly is NO comparison.  Bi-polar is undeniably chemical in nature & believe it or not, lithium is a salt, not some "feel good", turn up the volume drug.  

I do agree that there are too many diseases du jour.  And yes, it gets ridiculous.  If being married to an alcoholic qualifies one as having PTSD, I can hardly imagine what I've got!  But at the same time, there are some horrible diseases, like bipolar, which has a 20% morbidity rate if untreated.  That's higher than cancer & heart disease.  Besides, if lithium doesn't work, NO ONE wants to take it because it causes nasty side effects & does NOT give a buzz.  

Where are people saying they are abusing substances because they're bipolar?  Have they been diagnosed as such?  Or, is this some new "trend"?  Hate to tell you but stats wise,60% of diagnosed bipolar patients (1990 Rieger) abuse alcohol or drugs.

My aunt gave me this fascinating book, "Touched with Fire", by Dr. Kay Redfield Jamison & it has many ideas on this subject & stats as cited above.

Very intriguing, indeed!

Best,
Dancin'

[peaz]

Hey girl--It DOES seem obvious that manic-depression is real when you have been in direct contact w/ it......,,There is just no question, when you observe the mania OR the depression, that the person is afflicted w/ one HELLUVA disorder.  And, like you say, there are no payoffs for "fakin' it"--there are no "fun" treatment therapies!!!  ****!!

  I'm familiar w/ Kay Jamison's work.  I read Night Falls Fast and it's POWERFUL!!!    Another good book to read along those lines is The Noonday Demon, by Andrew Solomon.  God! It is the definitive book on depression!!  You simply MUST read the chapters on Breakdowns and Suicides!! LOL  Seriously, there is an entire chapter on addiction that is eye-opening.
    Thanks for your views..... Where ya been???  DA.COM? See ya--peazy

[percsnomas]

Hi Bunches...........i'm glad you found us!!!

Sounds like you've got a fresh start coming.  That fear is very natural.  Although i didn't do an in-patient detox(i tapered and used Thomas' Recipe; w/o the benzo); my MIL did one fairly recently, and was very thankful for it.  She came off a poly-drug habit of many years(coke, vikes, and xanax), and was treated with clonidine and valium(only for the first 3 days) over an 8 day period.
She was amazed at how well "it" worked....meaning she didn't get creamed by the withdrawals.....like she expected.

Don't be too hard on yourself, thinking its all about self control..........it is the nature of the opiate beast. Lets just try and tackle one step at a time, starting with the detox.

I think your plan is a wise one, tapering--heading into detox.
I'm not sure if you have a follow-up phase(like counselling, AA, NA,etc); but this place is at least a very good start, once you get out of detox.  Please try and read through the Thomas Recipe, and i strongly suggest picking up the ingredients(of course you won't need the benzo!!), so that you can start when you get home.

Take some comfort knowing you are not alone, and that there is a large group of people(compassionate,caring and knowledgeable) here for you.

percs

[Bunches]

Thank you for writing and the encouragement.  I am trying not to put "everything" on detox, I know that is just the beginning.  But I so want to not crave and just think about these damn pills, 24/7.  I don't even remember what it feels like to be without them.  I know I was depressed or something was underlying to begin with, but sure would take that over this.  It's almost like the more and more I take, even to maintain, I become irritable and enjoy things less and less.  Is this normal, or should I say typical of drug-use?  When I just had a few to get me through each day, waiting for detox on monday I was doing just that. Now that I have more, enough to get by and "then some" I want to take more.  I feel so out of control.  I think of how I will be after detox.  Oh, I'm just caught up in all my thoughts right now....

[rodewc]

So true. My habit zactly. Took 3-6 ES Vikes at 4 AM. Took one at 8 AM. Two at 10 AM. One pill at One PM. Three at 4 PM, and then maybe 3 more at dinner.. and SO true about resenting the food that diluted the high. Hell, sometimes I would throw in a cupla aspirin to thin the blood so the dope would kick in better/faster. Crazy as hell. God, lemme be successful this time. No excuses for an excuse. rwc~

[oxic]

You've got an awful lot to think about Bunches, but try not to overwhelm yourself.  You will see things dramatically differently in a few days, and will regain the control,that you probably didn't think was possible.  Again very difficult, but try not to think yourself into a corner.
We're going to be here before, during and after your detox,so please hang in there!!



rodewc: I have to tell you with that type of pill schedule, year after year, I DON'T EVER WANT TO COUNT OUT HOW MANY ******* PILLS ARE LEFT IN A BOTTLE!!!!   I
I DO NOT MISS THAT...........and makes me feel free almost by itself.  I hope you find the freedom that you deserve also.

percs

[oxic]

You know Lis, one thing i did do prior to my taper, was eliminate taking them when i needed/liked them the most(like first thing in the morning and immediately after work).
I just wanted to break the cycle before i actually got off them all together.......if that makes any sense.  I did that for almost 3 weeks before my August taper.

You have a great weekend also.....our weather is forecast to be the same as yours; so lookout house, here comes daddy and the two kid wreckin crew.

[demonfeeder]

I just starting reading the postings here.  It has been a big help to me to know that I'm not alone in my addiction.  I can't talk to my wife about this, she has no sympathy for addicts, and I can't say that I blame her.  I started talking my nightmare of "feeding the hungry demons" about 2 years ago with OTC cough syrup with codeine.  (It is legal in Wis. to buy 120ml of this without a prescription.)  Then I started taking 8mg w acetam. that I bought on-line.  I started to worry about the effects of the acetametiphen on my liver, so I started to strain the codiene out and drink the bitter mixure like that.  Then I was prescribed Vicodin for a minor back strain and BANG!!  I was in love!  I felt GREAT!  But then the bottle was empty and I headed back to the Dr. to get more.  No problem.  When that went empty, I started calling in prescriptions (my first wife is a pharmacist) and I worked part-time with her as a pharmacy tech so I learned how to read and write scripts.  I have not been caught doing this and nor do I want to get caught.  My 2nd wife would surely leave me if I got arrested for this.  I have been without any narcs. for 2 days now, and I can think of nothing else but how to get more Vicodins.
HELP ME!!

[percsnomas]

I don't have to tell you that you will get caught if you keep calling in the scripts to I?? Just a matter of time, then you'll be on wife #3(from what you've indicated)

As far as help, you've found a very good start with this forum.

I've copied a detox recipe for you to read through, which should be of real benefit to your recovery:

Thomas Detox Recipe

PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (immodium) (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium (immodium) aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.


You are probably somewhere around halfway to coming out the other side, so that is a very good start.  Although i'm sure it doesn't feel like it.  Try and keep yourself moving and your mind occupied!!!  Read through a bunch of threads, and find some inspiration/motivation/support, or whatever you are looking for.

Keep posting!!

[demonfeeder]

Thank You.  I will keep reading and maybe posting.  I don't have the luxury of time away from my job.  I am going to try the hot bath as soon as I get home though.  Though the physical withdrawl is tough, (my bones ache), the toughest part is the mental addiction.  I am so used to coming home from work and going right to the narcotics, that now when I get home, I pace, I try to watch TV, but nothing seems enjoyable anymore.  I hate that feeling.  I don't want to be in the office, I don't want to be at home, I don't want to DO anything.  How long does this symptom last?  Will it ever go away?

[percsnomas]

IT WILL GO AWAY!!!!

Hell i could recite my pill taking routine in my sleep.
Wake up at 4:45a.m. for work, take my first 2 percs to get into the shower.
By the time most of my fellow workers were arriving at work, i was ready for another 1.5(now all of 8:00 am) Another 1.5 at 10:30, and finally 1.5 more to go to lunch.  Then my massive will power kicked in, and i stretched it to 2 more just before going home at 4pm.  Then just to help be stay energized at least 2 or 3 more before dinner, so i could play with the lit'l ones.
Usually cut my dinner short so i could rush upstairs and grab a couple more, Since my damn food was diluting my pills.
2 or 3 more around 8:30(just about ready to put the lit'l ones to bed; after all i had to read them a couple stories, so i needed them right?) Ah, and then the night cap, 1 or 2 or 3 more to put myself to sleep.  Can't forget the 1 in the middle of the night either, waking up withdrawaling is no fun you know.

MY POINT FILLING ALL THIS SPACE UP WITH THAT, IS, THAT IF I CAN "UNWIND" THE PILLS FROM MY EVERYDAY ROUTINE, AND ENJOY LIFE AGAIN......SO CAN YOU.

You have to give yourself enough time between your last pill, and you will once again be "normal".  And, i strongly encourage you to not just sit back and say "well i got off the pills, now what".  Make it happen, fill your time, retrain yourself if you have to.  You know the old "Effort in === Reward out"

[lisabet]

Hey Percs - once again...an excellent post. Your usage mimics my heaviest usage almost to the minute!!!  I, like demonfeeder, have the most problems in the evening. Nothing is as much fun without the vicodins, a.i. relaxing in the evenings with TV, shopping, having dinner with friends.  This is the thing I'm trying to adjust to right now, actually trying to enjoy life without the pills.  It's the hardest thing, I tell ya.  Hope you enjoy your weekend; it's supposed to rain and be chilly here in West Virginia, "perfect" weather for this mangy dog to stay in the doghouse and snooze...smile.  From one M.D. to another, Love, Lisabet  :)

[lisabet]

You know, percs, that actually makes a lot of sense to me, about quitting the meds in the early am and evening, when we seem to need them the worse.  I'm actually doing it b-ass-ackwards...smile...taking my a.m. dose and evening dose without fail...maybe I'll "shake" it up a little bit; right now I'm taking 5-6-7 10/325's a day; one at 6-am (when my eyes pop open and my legs won't stay still)...for some reason I think of Dracula and those old movies when his eyes would pop open and he'd rise from his coffin, cause I always think "the hunger" when I get up this early to take a vicodin to "stave" off the W.D.'S.  Go back to sleep - back up again before 10 to take 2 more ...this soothes me until about 2:00 pm or when I happen to feel discomforted and take 2 more.  Then after dinner, about 6 or 7-pm, I'm feeling "antsy" again and take another one - then another about 9:00 before bedtime.  In the past I was chasing them with Jack Daniel, but thank God, I've pretty much gotten away from that habit.  I've tapered down from about 12 a day to this; but it seems like I'm stuck here and can't seem to do any better.  I KNOW I need to quit completely; this habit is depleting my energy; not to mention my bank account.   I appreciate the fact,that while you're still recovering, you're still here to help.  Your experiences and recovery and optimism means so much to me, and I'm sure, many people here. Don't want to get "mushy" but want you to know how much I appreciate ya!!!! Enjoy your little ones this weekend; they grow up before ya know it!  Love ya, percs....Lisabet

[Bunches]

Thank you so much again for the supportive word.  I know I need to keep it simple and take one day at a time, not getting too caught up in my head.  Now I'm battling eating like crazy!!  I'll probably gain 10 lbs. this weekend!! Ugh.

[mystere]

Ah yes! The mental olympics we go through! That my friend is your addiction talking and just like Percs said IT WILL GO AWAY!
I could not imagine life at all without my bottle of happy pills--HYDROCODONE 10/325--I was taking 12-14 of those little suckers per day and like all addicts I had my Pill Routine--My husband had no sympathy for drug addicts either until my addicition came crashing down on both of us a week ago!--To cut a long story short I got caught in a whopper of a lie about my pill taking and he was devestated!  I came very close to losing the man I love and adore due to those f$#@king pills! Sooo a decision had to be made--what was it going to be?  My wonderful life back or having those demons control every aspect of my day! (How many do I have/How to get more/What if the different pharmacies I used would find out what I was doing?  I'm sure you know the nightmare because you're in the middle of it!--I'm now on day six and coming out the other side and please believe me it does get better!  You can find wonderful support on this forum because just about everyone here has walked the mile you're walking now! 2 days is quite an accomplishment!  Please keep it up and the Thomas Recipe works!  And for God's sake please DO NOT CALL IN A SCRIPT--Just keep reading and posting that's what I did and the wonderful people here actually helped me from losing what i thought was my mind!
Oh by the way--My Husband is now the biggest supporter of my recovery and things are looking up on all fronts--I'm not saying its easy but PLEASE PLEASE believe it is so worth it!  You're in my prayers--Peace--Mystere/AKA N.O. Lady (office computer)

[mystere]

I also forgot to tell you--Your addiction will say--"God I feel so bad right now I'll just get one more bottle and then I'll taper and get off of them for good"--ALWAYS TOMORROW--For me it was always tomorrow until the choice had to be made! I could never taper those little demons called my name 24/7.  I also worked during the brunt of the withdrawal and you wonder how you got through it--But the fact is that you DO!--You have a chance to STOP this speeding train to destruction and believe me its headed straight for your door if you continue. This forum saved my sanity and everyone here is willing to help!  God knows we've all been there!--Peace & Prayers--Mystere/ AKA New Orleans Lady

[Perri]

Hi Everyone. I've been reading this board for awhile, but this is my first post. I was taking 10-12 percocet or 5 mg oxycodones per day. I was getting them from my boyfriend. I was having back pain, and my doc perscribed vioxx and muscle relaxers. it worked, but it made me sleepy.I am a single mom with 3 kids and I work 2 jobs, so I didn't want to take something that would knock me out. My boyfriend is paralized from the waist down. He needs me to take care of him also. One day he gave me a percocet for my back pain, and I found out the darn pill gave me energy as well as reliving the pain. It's taken me a year to work up to about 12 pills a day. I was stealing them from him and he knew it. I have weaned myself down to 4 a day in the past 3 days, so I am feeling the WD symptoms. I really want to stop!! I want my life back!! This board has been very helpful in helping me to stop. Thanks for listening.

[gracie97]

Good Morning everyone:

Well, it has now been 45 hours and 18 minutes-NO TABS, getting better every hour. Yesterday my energy lasted for about 7 hours, starting at 5 am. Hope today will make it to 9 hours, I have to go back to work Monday 4/28 and it will probably be an 11 hour day since I have been gone a week. I am so afraid someone will notice something different about me, because I never called the office this vacation like I usually do. After reading all the posts, I feel lucky, my normal habit was 5 no. 10/500 mg per day, 8 on weekends. I don't know what it would be like if we hadn't tapered them back. But we did do something on our first "free" day, we flushed our left over pieces down the toilet! YEAH! YES, man it felt like someone took 2 bricks off my shoulders and I was proud. (won't deny the initial urge to reach down in that toilet bowl and grab one of the pieces though-GOD I AM SICK) LOL Oh well. maybe someone out here can laugh with me on that one......

Thanks again everyone, for the Thomas receipe and all the info. It does get easier minute by minute, hour by hour.

[mystere]

Good Morning! Congrats on 14 hrs 17 probably at least 18 minutes by now--I too had to count the minutes-hours since my last pill and what's wonderful is that the hours do actually turn into pill free days-Amazing isn't! I'm on day six and things are looking wonderful--except for not sleeping through the night I'm amazed at how well our bodies can recover after so much abuse! It looks like its going to be a nice day here in the Crescent City except for being a little hot and muggy--Oh yea I have friends that had surgical procedures took a few of their pain pills as prescribed and then I watched them throw practically a whole bottle away--Used to break my heart! (Even considered going through their trash to retrive but thankfully I never did)Keep of the good work! Gracie-- As you know we are all in this together! Peace and Prayers--Mystere AKA New Orleans Lady

[vicoaddict]

I have been a vicodine addict for 4 years now. Vicodine doesn't react the same for me as it does for others.  I get energy, confidence and feel I can do anything.  I felt it helped me to work harder and fster and gave the confidence to be in ant situation.  I did things I would never normally do. The are days I can't even remeber.  I started to steal my vicodine from phramacies and faked systems with many doctors to support my habit. I have been in recovery for 1 year with 4 relapses in that year. My withdrawals get worse each relapse. I know I took the vicoine/hydrocodone to excape feeling life. I relapse when the feelings get to intense. I was up to taking 6 vicodine/hydrocodone every 4 hours and I would chew them for a greater faster effect. I knew I was in trouble when I graduated to oxycoton. The withdrawals were more than I could handle on my own and I had to get help. I know now I am lucky to still be alive. But I dream about vicodine/hydrocodone and still crave it everyday. But no more taking the easy way out of life. Good luck to everyone. Good to know I am not alone.

[gracie97]

Just wanted to says thanks to everyone for sharing all the great info. Today is the beginning of day 4. I am finally starting to count days instead of hours. I am still being very lazy, start to do some cleaning and only manage to get it half done...Scared what it will be like back at work tomorrow morning, especially after being gone for a week, you know the saying you need a vacation after you come back from vacation.... I am not really feeling "sleepy, just lazy" I am taking the vitamins, gatorade and walking the dogs. I am no longer running to the bathroom every half hour. BUT, man I do think about that "whoosh" from the tabs, I still miss it, how long do the mental cravings last?

[vicoaddict]

The mental cravings last a while.  But the physical ones go away.  I still take vicodine in my dreams and then wake up craving it.  It gets easier though and there are medications you can take to curve the cravings.  I take naltroxene.  Good luck you doing good the tough part is over.  It gets easier around the fourth day.  And you will start to notice your energy level increasing.  Don't forget to take vitamins to help your body heal.

[gracie97]

I typed too soon this morning. Things are worse again, the more I try to move around the more I am running to the bathroom. I NEVER EVER want to go through this again!

[vicoaddict]

The reason you keep running to the bathroom is that pain killers cause constipation now that you are not taking them your whole system has to adjust.  It takes a little time to get your body back in order, but you are doing good don't give up.  Try taking immodium AD and pepto bismol and 2 tylenol till your body starts to even back out.  Also for enery there is a multi purpose vitamin called one a day energy it has ginseng in it and helps you get more energy and helps your body to keep nack to normal more quickly.

[demonfeeder]

Well, I'm still clean.  I wish I could say it was because of my strong will and character, but unfortunately it is only because I didn't have access to any narcotics.  I live in a pretty rural place so it makes it tough to "score".  I am having the most trouble right now, I don't know why.  It's probably because it's the first Sunday night without any drugs in a couple of years.  I sure am glad this forum is here.

THANK YOU!!

[vicoaddict]

Well despite al the groups and support I have around me and this website.  I screwed up today.  I went to the dentist and he handed me a perscribtion for vicodin and I took five about an hour ago.  I only have 12 so maybe I will be ok.  The cravings were real bad today because my husband and I were arguing.  We are getting divorced and it is really emotionally draining.  So when the dentist offered me the vicodine I was weak.  Its a every day battle and sometimes I lose the fight.  As long as I win the war.  I don't want to depend on this stuff just to avoid hard feelings.  I just really don't like dealing with my emotions so I take pills to kill feeling.  I go to PA (pills anaymous.  I think maybe I should go to a meeting tomorrow.  No bodies perfect but I don't want to die for it.

[gracie97]

Do you have the strength or desire to flush the rest? That is what we did when we tapered our schedule, it was hard, I almost reached into the "clean" pot just to get them back and swallow them all, not any whole ones- pieces, but damn it was hard. And pretty sick...Oh well, if you don't, just try and try again. As long as we are trying we can't be too bad. :>) Tomorrow is another day and a new start.......

[vicoaddict]

Yes I have the desire to throw the rest away but it easier said than done.  I know what you mean about going after them even though there in the toilet.  I have to crush them with a hammer and flush them just so I won't.  I was once so desperate that I licked the residue of of a table once after I flushed the powder.  I had my mom flush them..  Addiction is such an overwhelming thing. Do you ever star4t to itch because you took to much.  It's a side affect.  I know I am better than this.  The worst part is know when can even tell when I am high because I have been taking them for so long.  Before today I had been clean for three months.  Time to start over.  I called the dentist and told him that I forgot I was allergic to vicodine so next time he won't give me any.

[nycgrl]

I only found this board today - thanks so much for all the comments and support. I don't know why (I think it may have been an HBO "America Undercover" documentary if you can believe it), but all of a sudden the gravity of my situation with Vicodin hit me this weekend, and I decided to quit.
I was at like 10-12 per day of ES - like so many others here, I would take 2-3 before I left for work. NOBODY knew about this, not even my husband, who is now being as supportive as only someone who was in rehab 10 years ago can be. He can be a bit "programmy" at times, but he means so well. I also decided to tell my three best friends, on the theory that the more people who know, the more people I'll be lying to if I go back to the vikes. It's a theory, anyway.
So I've been without them for 2 days now, and I feel like hell on toast. I know it will get worse before it gets better, especially given the amount I was taking. I am going to try the Thomas detox, although I will have to go to work while I'm doing it.
Is cold turkey okay, or do I need to wean down first because of the amount I was taking? Any thoughts?
My biggest problem is that I have SUCH easy access to Vicodin (and basically every other pharmaceutical - which is where I am planning to get the valium for the detox). I have a connection, I don't have to scam doctors. I don't know how on earth I am going to keep from going to see this guy - I guess all I can do is worry about one day at a time. I didn't go today. I will try not to go tomorrow. You guys are all great, and I hope to visit this board often for support. I just don't think I can do meetings at this point, and if I go to rehab, I will be fired, no question.
xoxoxoxoxo