Vicodin detox

I am addicted to Vicodin. I am currently taking between 100 and 150 mg. per day. I started taking it about two years ago after it was prescribed by a dentist and was pretty much using it recreationally on the weekends. I noticed that all day on Monday after a weekend of taking it I was horribly depressed. Needless to say my use escalated and I found more ways to get more pills.

I have tried to stop a couple of times before. I went through all of the physical symptoms which were horrible. The longest that I managed to stay off of Vicodin was about 3 weeks. Even though much of the physical **** was gone, I was still very, very depressed - even after a few weeks. That was the main thing that made me start using again. I just didn't feel like I could continue on with a normal life without the pills.

I really want to get off of these things, but I am terrified of not only the physical withdrawal symptoms, but the severe depression I know will be there. I went to the chemical dependency clinic at my health care provider yesterday. They have a 2 week day program, or 8 week evening program and use Clonodine (sp?) to help with the withdrawals. I can't take two weeks away, but am terified of the depression which pretty much makes me unable to function, at times suicidal. Is there something that I can take in addition to the Clonodine which with help with the suicidal depression?

[skipper]

STC:

welcome to the forum. there will always be room for just one more junky in here, so come on in. clonidine will help wtih some of the
symptoms of w/d. i wouould suggest you also check out Thomas's detox recipe. i  my self use a varation of it and would be happy to
post it to you if you would like. i must stress you are among people exactly like you on this forum, so please keep posting as we
may be more help than you think....

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[STC]

Thank you for the response. I have to say that I immediately burst into tears after reading your reply. I think just having somebody actually say something about my problem gave me a huge feeling of relief, or connection, or something.

I would appreciate the information about this detox formula. I haven't stopped taking the pills yet, but just thinking about it I am already feeling depressed. I am so scared about doing this. I am totally confused about what to do.

Thank you again for the support. It is truly appreciated.

[bcoint2]

Whatever you do it won't be pleasant.  I have detoxed off vics before and I was doing as much if not more.  It was not nearly as bad this time detoxing off percs and oxycotin.

The only way I can get off these lil devils is cold turkey.  I have no willpower substituting other drugs-always leads me back.

If I can bite the bullet, anybody can.  I had suicidal thoughts in my first 3 days this time around, but I really want to beat it.  I made myself stronger than those F-ing things.  Think about it... you are depressed because you are not poisoning yourself anymore.  

I am stronger than a pill, you are too.  You need to tell yourself this and believe it.  Be strong.

[skipper]

STC:
alright here is a list of supplements...you may have to var your
dosage...
2-4 grams L-Tyrosine
75 mg. chelated zink
one vitamen b-50 capsule
10 mg chelated manganese
50 mg chelated magnesium
1000 iu vitamin a
2 mg. copper.

do this regiment once a day. if you can, start several days before detoxing. while detoxing use copious quantityus of imodium (immodium) for the runs. if you can get either valium or klonopin from a doctor (be careful as these can be addictive if used for too long). also bacloven (a neuro muscle relaxer) for leg cramps. (it will also help you sleep).

good luck and thankyou...i've been having troubles of my own. be-
fore i read your post, i was considering buying a pint of cabin still and a .40 glock, so i guess i owe you a thankyou.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[STC]

Thank you again. This information is great. It does seem odd, the thought of spending a lot of money on vitamins instead of Vicodin. Not my usual choice of pills. : )

I'm glad that we connected today. It sounds like your day is about as shitty as mine. If it helps any, I feel so much more confident about doing this. And so much more comforatble in the knowledge that there are other people like you who know what this is like.

[pon]

Good luck man, you can do it....I am 4 day into cold turkey for 80-100mg vike a day for a couple of months.  I've been pretty lucky that the physical side hasn't been too horrible and the depression is even begining to soften a bit...you can do it...like they said you are stronger than a pill and you are worth it

[a549056]

im on day 4 commin off years of oxycodone. im goin cold turkey also. ya know, a few years back, i started takin baclofen to get off oxy. it worked the very first dose. however, i got addicted to that too. tried to quit, got real sick. so--------take oxy again to get off baclofen. holy ****, what a vicious cycle. i know from the last time i quit(went 72 days) after a week, its a mind game. but the first week is a mutha fukker. good luck my friends---

tom

[JR.]

Hey man, how is it going?

I see skipper is still there for whomever makes thier way into our midst. Thanks Skipper for being there to listen and offer hope.

STC, I have not posted as regularly as I used to but still monitor the forum regularly. I was a vicodin/hydrocodone/Lortab/Tussionex addict for 12 years. It took a hard fall to get me set in the direction I needed to go in order to get help and break the addiction's grasp. One thing that I will warn you against is doctor shopping/hopping. Under federal statute, this constitutes DIVERSION, a felony by standard in any jurisdiction in the United States. It is also an adopted law in all state statutes as well. If you are seeing several doctors/dentists for the same ailments or claimed ailments and they are prescribing scheduled drugs such as hydrocodone (schedule III) then you are committing a felony. Vicodin addiction is pretty much epidemic and the feds as well as State and local authorities will take you to task for the offense of Diversion. If you are getting it from friends, supplier etc... then you are putting them at risk as well. If you are serious about quitting and only you know if you are ready or not, then please commit to doing exactly that, QUIT. The w/d's far outweigh the down side like jail, loss of everything/everyone, death. You get the picture.

We are here for you. Keep us posted. There is a wealth of information here from which to learn. There is also compassion to help you in the down times. We have all pretty much been there. Life is sweet after vicodin or whatever your demon may be.

In His Love, JR.

[bmac]

Any withdrawals from opiates will cause physical withdrawals.
If you can find a doctor that will detox you it would be the best way to get off drugs.If you are like me ,I decided to do it myself.It cost me about 10 extra days but it worked.If your insurance lets you,you should contact your primary care doc.
He should know how to detox opiates.Don't cold turkey except as a no other choice thing.It really hurts when you decide it's
all over this time.The mindgames you will play will go away with the vitamins and having the balls to stop.I know,it came down to me either stopping or being a slave to a pill.Headgames!
            Let me know what happens!Hang tuff!
                        bmac

[pon]

I agree about going to your primary care Doc and opening up...they can help a lot...Cold turkey is hard, but if you have to it is still worth it and better than the pills...

Does your employer have an EAP (Employee Assistance Proggram)lots of companies do and the employees don't always know...you should check.  If they do, they will generally help you confidentially and your boss never has to be a part of it and nothing goes in your records....they just help facilitate you getting the other help you need by taking away the work worry.

My company has it...when I quit booze 15 years ago I used it and they never said a word...I was an entry level employee then, now I am a VP....you can trust them, what they do helps the company too, so its a good deal all around.

Stick with it man, you can do it.  It is different for everyone but always hard...but you can make it and it is worth it

good luck

[STC]

Here's an ironic story for you.

I work for a small company, a clock manufacturer, about 65 employees. I started out as an office manager and basically handled all "office" work, including human resources. About two years ago when the business was booming and the ecomony was great we hired an HR manager and I was able to move up. Well things have taken a downturn (not as bad for us as for some others, thankfully). We just let our HR manager go and I have been asked to hire and manage an office manager (at a much lower salary) to take over the basic HR duties. I accepted the role since it meant a raise for me. I am not going to be able to get anyone in very quickly so it seems I will be back to handling HR once again.

I guess I can focus my re-training on the EAP thing since we do have it. I suppose there is some comfort in knowing the level of confidentiality in doing whatever admin work is related on my own.

A question: With EAP, does someone step in and contact your workplace about your situation for you? If so, what do they tell them? My company is fairly close and I am friendly on a personal level with my boss, but I know he would not understand this problem. It would definitely affect his attitude towards me in the future.

Hey - thanks for the words. I am amazed at the support and wisdom I've gotten in a single day on this site.

[pon]

the EAP we have is outsourced...the company I work for is large, 30,000+ employees...but the issue is still really the same, your boss is your boss and they wonder what is going on.

When I did it, it was my understanding that the EAP people worked exclusively through the HR department on a completeley confidential basis.  I was out for 13 days...HR contacted my boss and told her that I was ill and was being put on a "temporary and indeterminate term disability" ...that is all they told her.

My experience is that the boss can usuallly tell when it is an EAP situation disability...I have over 300 people on my team and had two last year, post 911, "temporary and indeterminate term disability" employees that HR informed us of.  That is usually the key that let's us know it is EAP rather than a traditional medical problem...people usdually talk to their boss about those.  I have found over the years that a number of my folks who took the EAP route talked to me, after it was all over, about what had happened to them that caused them to do it...the reasons have varried from everything to work over stress, divorce, death of loved ones, post traumatic stress from 911, to substance abuse...you name it  The key here is to understand that your boss isn't going to automatically assume it is a substance abuse problem  just because it is EAP...does he know you have one?  If not, why should he assume it?  If he does, he may be glad you're going to get help...sounds like you're a valued employee.

Look, it sounds as if you do pretty well at your job, they value you and have retained you through tough economic times...they have promoted you...you must be doing some good for them right?  Explore the EAP route, use your HR position to your advantage.

Remember, you've helped the company succeed and survive...they owe you the same.  Use the EAP if you can to help...it is not a gift from the company it is part of your compensation that you earn for doing your job...a job you seem to well from the sound of things.

Check it out, it could work...taking the work stress away could be a big help at succeeding in getting the drugs out of your life and that is what matters most.

Good Luck man, stick with it and hang in, you can do it and you are worth it.  Isn't easy, but it is worth it.

[STC]

After reading the multitude of posts (this site has been a goldmine of information) I went out and bought all of the recommended vitamins and supplements. It sounds like it is a good idea to start taking these prior to quitting (?).

I am still trying to figure out the logistics of quitting. Do I go through the chemical dependency program offered by my HMO (which sounds like it doesn't really address the physical aspects of withdrawal, quite honestly)? Should I try to contact a doctor directly and discuss the problem with him or her to see about getting more specific help? And then there's the problem of work. I have so many projects going on right now that it is just the worst possible time to be away.

Sorry for the rambling. Just needed to get these thoughts out into the open. Thanks to all for the posts.

[PING]

HEY GUYS. I START TAPERING OFF OXYCODONE TODAY, HAD BEEN TAKING
PERCOCET FOR FOR ABOUT 5 YRS, STARTED ON OXY 3 MONTHS AGO, CUTTING 1/2 PER DAY, ONLY 40 MG, IS THIS TOO FAST? I HAVE BEEN READING THIS FORM FOR A FEW MONTHS, YOU GUY'S SEEM LIKE A NICE BUNCH OF PEOPLE. HAVE A NICE DAY.
                            LEE.

[pon]

Good luck man...we are here for you...you can do this...stick with it and hang in there...work the EAP stuff, get to your Dr...

YOU CAN DO IT...and it is worth it.  Keep in touch, people will help as they can

good luck, you can do it

[pon]

thanx...great post

[Sisack]

Wow!  I posted in another area called "addiction medicine" but found this area and can call it home.  I'm 54 yrs old, always an addict (a periodic addict) and I go to NA mtgs which I highly recommend to all of you, which most of you know and do.  I stopped a 15 month run of 8-10 vics per day 5 weeks ago.  It was very hard and still is.  I think for those of you who have depression, find out about anti-depression meds to counteract the brains lack of chemicals that have malfunctioned due to the triggering of the narcotic that made us "normal."  I will speak for myself, but I've been chasing some form of narcotic for decades to normalize.  I've been diagnosed with Bi-polar and I always ask the age-old question.  Was this chemical imbalance caused by drugs, or did I take drugs to balance the bi-polar disorder.  The biochemistry of the brain is fascinating.  We have many drugs out there to help fend off depression, anxiety and stress that are not addicting.  I still get very tired, irritable, fatigue, depression and aches and pains.  I do take Neurotin which is for bi-polar but is also used by many detox centers for pain mgmt and brain balance.  I too think it is best to stop any narcotic.  The tylenol is the toxic element here and is bad for both kidneys and liver.  There are too many risks that was aptly mentioned by another about jails, institutions, sickness, harm to others or death.  We all will feel much better not taking anything and working on free-will and soul-searching what is really important.  I know it sounds simplistic, but it's not.  Just remember how we feel four hours after each narcotic-pill dose--then remember how really shitty we feel at every night before we sleep.  Hang in there.  If this 54 yr old broad can detox, hang in there, anybody can.  Yes, it's hard to eat, yes, we have loose stool, yes, we have extreme fatigue and drained out hours, but it gets a bit better each day.  There were days I could not eat to save my life--then a cycle begins and without nourishment, we think **** it, this ain't worth it and I'm going back to pain pills.  Finally (for me) I'm ready to eat right (many veges and protein with vitamins) and exercise.  Exercise is extremely important to get your endorphines going and balance your life.  Do yoga, walk, run or weights.  We will never be "normies" and always be addicts--but the payoff is greater if we stop. What is the payoff by remaining an addict in distress--we get something from that and need to find out why we like misery if we remain addicted.  Finally, I will repeat, if you are depressed, there are non-addictive meds that I think can help--I don't think vitamin/mineral or diet is enough--it helps greatly, but that depression is a killer.  Peace.

[daydream]

wow.  Sitting here at 1:40 in the morning reading these post has been the most emotional experience I have had since my son was born.  I am a vicodin es addict.  I am afraid to tell you that I take many more than anyone has said so far.  Today I took 22 pills. It has taken only 2 and a half months to get this bad agin.  I detoxed my self once back in April when I was taking about 15 a day.  It was the most horrifying experience I have ever had and I know I can not do it again.  What's worse is I have a 18 months old son, a husband, and a career ahead of me after I graduate college.  But, I feel I can't even get out of bed in the mornig with out the assurance that I have 3 pills waiting for me on the bedside table.  Pretty dumb, huh?  I want to end this nightmare so badly.  I want to go into a detox rehab whatever right now but how can I leave my life?  School, motherhood, a family who is deeply rooted in religion and would be sooo dissappointed to learn of this addiction.  ( not my husband,he has some idea, but not the amount I take)I feel helpless   alone   scared   sick of myself and this drug.  I do have the pills to ween my self down one pill a day if I only had the will power.  But you know the lies we tell our selves  "I had a bad day, only one more"  or " my head really does hurt so I'll just take an extra on" etc. etc. until I've gone over that daily limit 3-4 pills.  If someone can relate, which I know you can, please please give me some advice.  I can't live and die this way.  I have no insurance.  When I tried to detox in April my husband and I called many mental health facilities in the area and I found a dead end if IU had no insurance.  My only option was an emergency room or the salvation army detox clinic which one counselor told me was really rough, especially for a girl in her twenties like me. Where can I go?  Is there really a doctor who will help me through this and not say it's all my fault and I need to go to the E.R.  The last time my husband called my doctor, who was the one who'd prescribed me to the pills for 5 years and he told him I was sick .. He told him my symptoms-watery eyes, diarhea (diarrhea), naseau, EXTREME EXTREME aches/pains/restlesness and the doc said "SO?" he didn't want to help me.  This had been my family doctor.  I am sooo sorry I rambled so much- it's just that your my only hope..  I would never kill my self or any thing,I really do love my self and my family.  I am just so tired of living this way.  I need help.

[Paige]

You are definately not alone.  I have just recently taken 280 vicophen in 10 days, that was suppose to be my detox supply.ly.  I don't know where or how you get your meds, but if you can switch from vicodin (which has acedimediphen in it) to viocophen, (which has Ibuprophen in it), you would be doing your liver a favor.  At such a high dose, you can really damage your liver as could we all with all the **** we ingest.  As for tapering, it is damn near impossibe at times but doable.  I have four kids, my 18 month old is eating wipes right now, not good.  When my second was 21 months I went into detox, almost knocked my husband on his ass, he had no idea at all.  I only went in to detox, not for a 28 day stay.  As for the rest of the family, those who found out I was in the hospital we told them I had had post-partum, delayed, and was having an anixiety attack.  I was better not to see me at this time.  It worked and helped a lot.  Unfortunitly I relapesed after my daughter was born.  She is now 18 months and yes, up at 4am.  It was that damn Morphine, that shot that **** in me and the cravings started all over again only stronger.  I just can not seem to beat this one.  Read some of the post about the Thomas receipe thing.  I have not tried it but it seems a lot of people say it works.  Right now my drug of choice is Darvon those damn *@$&^$^@&^@&^$#(*##!!!THINGS....They got me good, anyway, when I do get clean for any amount of time, I use Ambien for the restless legs and to sleep, Librax (docs perscribe it for spastic colon or irretible bowl synbrome, tell them you used it before and it is the only thing that works for you.  Irritable Bowel runs in cycles so you don't have it all the time and they useualy just prescribe it), long explanation sorry, the Librax has an anti-spasematic in it for your stomach cramps as well as librium which detox centers all use.  I wouldn't go cold turkey.  Just my opinion, I'm not a doctor, just a drug addict, trying yet once again to get it together.  I am a good mom and I want to right my these kids.

[Paige]

You are definately not alone.  I have just recently taken 280 vicophen in 10 days, that was suppose to be my detox supply.ly.  I don't know where or how you get your meds, but if you can switch from vicodin (which has acedimediphen in it) to viocophen, (which has Ibuprophen in it), you would be doing your liver a favor.  At such a high dose, you can really damage your liver as could we all with all the **** we ingest.  As for tapering, it is damn near impossibe at times but doable.  I have four kids, my 18 month old is eating wipes right now, not good.  When my second was 21 months I went into detox, almost knocked my husband on his ass, he had no idea at all.  I only went in to detox, not for a 28 day stay.  As for the rest of the family, those who found out I was in the hospital we told them I had had post-partum, delayed, and was having an anixiety attack.  I was better not to see me at this time.  It worked and helped a lot.  Unfortunitly I relapesed after my daughter was born.  She is now 18 months and yes, up at 4am.  It was that damn Morphine, that shot that **** in me and the cravings started all over again only stronger.  I just can not seem to beat this one.  Read some of the post about the Thomas receipe thing.  I have not tried it but it seems a lot of people say it works.  Right now my drug of choice is Darvon those damn *@$&^$^@&^@&^$#(*##!!!THINGS....They got me good, anyway, when I do get clean for any amount of time, I use Ambien for the restless legs and to sleep, Librax (docs perscribe it for spastic colon or irretible bowl synbrome, tell them you used it before and it is the only thing that works for you.  Irritable Bowel runs in cycles so you don't have it all the time and they useualy just prescribe it), long explanation sorry, the Librax has an anti-spasematic in it for your stomach cramps as well as librium which detox centers all use.  I wouldn't go cold turkey.  Just my opinion, I'm not a doctor, just a drug addict, trying yet once again to get it together.  I am a good mom and I want to right my these kids.

[Sean5110]

I just read that you have 4 kids. So do I, and one on the way (we just saw the ultra-sound yesterday and all is well (two miscarriages in the last year)). Today is my first day on a tapering schedule I've cut my average dosage in more than half and am starting feeling that blank, disconnected feeling. But I want to stay strong. It amazes me, all of my thoughts driving to work were trying to convince me that now's not the best time and that I should wait for another month, blah blah blah. It is so much the mental part of the whole getting clean process that sabotages me!

I want to be not just a good Dad but one that truly puts my family first, especially above my selfish desire to detach through drugs.

I know that today is the first in a longer battle and I am going to really need to use this forum.

I pray that you can muster the resolve to follow through on whatever plan you have to get back to living a full life as a responsible mom. There's nothing like being able to look yourself in the eye at the end of a long day spent in the service of others.

Sean

[Chezz]

Aspen,
First off, yes tapering can make the w/d's easier. Some people can taper which is pretty hard unless you have the will power. Cold turkey is another option. With CT I would use the "recipe" that you will find in the archives to help make the symtoms (symptoms) of withdrawl (withdrawal) easier.
You have 3 months. Where is your daily usage now and what type of med? How many do you have left? And do you currently have a Doctor that you are seeing?
With this info it is easier to see what will work.

Dirtbag - 1st change your screen name. We are all addicts here. But we still are all people with dignity. Including yourself regardless of how you got here. Stop beating yourself up and hang in there. How you got here doesn't matter a bit, IT IS THAT YOU MAKE IT OUT THAT MATTERS...hang in there, you can do it.
That Quote is one from Pon, another addict on this site.

The same question above need to be answered so we know where you are at.


There are alot of people here to help. Just let us know where you are at.

Chezz

[DIRTBAG]

I'M PRETTY HOOKED 10-20 PILLS A DAY, EVERYDAY I SAY I'M STOPPING NO ONE KNOWS I AM IN SUCH TROUBLE RIGHT NOW I HAVE 5 PILLS LEFT AND I CAN'T QUIT THINKING ABOUT WHERE I AM GOING TO GET MORE I HAVE DETOXED BEFORE AND COLD TURKEY BEFORE BOTH HURT. I WROTE DOWN THE VITIMIN COCKTAIL AND I AM GOING TO GET THESE NOW BUT WHATS KLONOPIN AND CLODINE AND HOW LONG DO THE SYMPTOMS LAST?  I GO TO CHURCH AND TO AA BUT I STILL USE.  IT A DIRTY SECRET AND I OFTEN WONDER IF I CAN EVER BE FREE AGAIN.  HELP ME QUIT WITHOUT HURTING BECAUSE IF I GET SICK MY FAMILY AND JOB WILL NOT SUPPORT ME.  THANKYOU

[Chezz]

I am here for you if you need to just get it out. I know your situation requires secrecy. I couldn't imagine having to do it that way.
I know you can do it. Just keep up that positive attitude!!!

I know the mental games are the hardest sometimes. But the more you post and let it out, the easier it will be.

I feel for you man. I know it has to be extremely hard to have cut your dosage that much.

All I can recommend is to start taking the "recipe" ASAP. I have had some pretty bad withdrawls in the past, from an 8-10 a day percocet habit. The recipe made me feel like their weren't any noticable physical withdrawls.
I would start taking the recipe ASAP. This will help you be able to wait longer for the next dose.  
The hardest part like you said was the mental ****.
I am taking wellbutrin for the depression and it has been a godsend.
I am here all day, all the time if you just need to chat. I don't work.
I want to help as much as I can. I know your situation makes it a hard one to do alone.
Chezz

[Aspen24]

Hello everyone!  I have been reading about all of your stories,  and it makes me feel a little less alone in my addiction to vicodin, and percocet.  I know I need to get help.  My fiance has no idea that I am addicted.  We are getting married in 3 months and I want to be off drugs by then.  Is there any way that lowering my dose from 10 pills a day to 7 pills a day to 4 pills,  and so on .....?  Will this make the withdraw symptoms less intense? Has anyone here tried this,  and succeeded at doing so? I know I need help! Thank you for reading!

[pon]

Have to call it a night here on the east coast...will check in in the morning...send me a post and I'll send you one to wake up to...have a good night chezz, you deserve it AND you've earned it...hang in there....we need you

pon

[Chezz]

That would be great to chat this evening. Things are going okay today, still not feeling too great though.

Where are you located by the way.
I live near Santa Barbara, CA.
For privacy reasons, you state would be alright. I always wonder if there is somebody living around here.

Looking forward to chatting later. I almost forgot it is Friday night too.

My wife and I usually stay in though.
Chezz

[DIRTBAG]

i'M SORRY EVERYONE TOOK OFFENSE TO MY NICKNAME DIRTBAG,  ITS KIND OF A PERSONAL NAME BECAUSE OF THE BUISNESS I'M IN NOT JUST ABOUT THAT  I HAVE MY DIRTY LITTLE SECRET OR THAT I'M A DIRTBAG BECAUSE I HAVE MY ADDICTION GOING.  EVERYTHING IN MY LIFE HAS DIRT TO DO WITH IT.  SOUNDS SILLY TO YOU BUT CAN I KEEP MY NAME AND THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING SO QUICKLY.  I'M GOING TO A MEETING TONITE I TOOK 7 PILLS TODAY AND I BOUGHT THE VITAMINS AND TOOK THOSE TOMORROW I HAVE 3 LEFT IF I CAN HOLD ON TO THEM UNTIL THEN. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW LONG IT TAKES TO FEEL NORMAL PHYSICALLY.  PEACE

[pon]

keep your name if you like...names don't matter really, but you probably will get a lot of folks asking you about....might be easier to switch...how about EARTHMOVER?  We are here for you good luck with your meeting....hang in there

[pon]

Chezz, didn't get the e-mail yet so I thought i'd go here...no secrets in this group

glad to hear from you...I think you are sounding better too.  Chezz, I have to tell you that I was really scared for you when I read your earlier posts.  I know how you feel about falling back...I was there many times myself back in 87 when i quit drinking....I may be there again tomorrow...any of us could be.

The thing is Chezz, it really doesn't matter that you fell...and I think you know that inside yourself.  If you read through the posts you write to help others you will find the key to why it doesn't matter.  It doesn't matter that you fell because you WANT to stop.  Our bodies and minds are enslaved and altered by these drugs to the point that they frequently control our very actions.  Think of it....think of reaching for that bottle...is it you reaching or is it the drug grabbing you.  I may be wrong chezz, but I believe it is the drug grabbing you.  When I opened the bottle of vikes lastr night, it wasn't me wanting to, it was my addiction taking advantage of my hurting at that moment.  I accept responsibility for my addiction, it is my fault, no one made me get here....I did it, but all that said, there comes a point when the addiction takes control.  Our fight is to regain control of ourselves, our lives, our spirits and our freedom.  That is not an easy fight to win with a deamon like addiction.

YOU want to stop...you will.  You are facing an incredibly difficult situation between the physical pain you must endure with your back and the physical and mental anguish (especially at days 3 & 4) of withdrawl (withdrawal).  Chezz, I am proud of you for how far you have gotten already.  That you fell doesn't lessen that pride I feel for you...in fact, your determination to make it through your fall and fight again makes me more proud of you.

Chezz, you will make it...I really believe you will.  reading your posts gives me an image of a person who will give everything they have to beat this.  Don't let this dishearten you.  Accept it for what it is...the reality that you may need to get further along in resolving your back pain before you can do this.  THAT IS OK.  You can only expect so much of yourself, your mind and body.  You have to get there through the right path for YOU, not necessarily the same path as for someone else here.

Fact is Chezz, you have mostly won the battle.  You determination to be free of the drugs will get you there when your body will allow it...when you back is more resolved.  HOLD ONTO THAT DETERMINATION...it will get you there when it is your time.

I'm going to post this now...I will write you some more later after I get my girls to bed...I still haven't gotten the e-mail yet, but please do write to me or to jeff.

By the way I am in PA.  I have a wife and 2 daughters with a third on the way...back soon

pon

[pon]

Are you out there?

[pon]

Chezz is right...change you're nickname...unless you're a dirtbag for some other reason, you're NOT one because you have ended up here.  Lots of good people, strong people, caring people like Chezz have ended up here too..I'm here...

the folks on this chat will hel-p you.  What you are going to face is hard, very hard....but lots of people have done it...you can too.

Post the info Chezz listed and people will try to help you.

Chezz, how are you doing?  I'll be on more later tonight...have to take my daughter to swim class now...talk to you then?

pon

[Aspen24]

First off I want to say thank you for writing me back!  It just feels good to tell someone about this.  I started using Percocet and vicodin,  when I had kidney stones.  Once the pain was over I realized how addicted I had become!  My doctor gave me 60 vicodins,  and 4 refills.  Also she gave me percocet when I told her the vicodin wasn't working for me anymore.  She knew about my passed drug problem,  but continued to refill my prescription.  So I am now taking about 10 to 12 vicodin a day, sometimes more!  I want to go cold turkey,   but I am so afraid of the pain I will be in!  I honestly want to QUIT this HELL!  I am 24 years old, and this is a huge secret! I want to stop today,  but without feeling like I am going to die.  Thank you for reading.   I admire everyone in here for there strength! I know I can all overcome this,   I just need some advice I guess! What is the recipe?

[DIRTBAG]

HEY IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU AND ME ARE IN ABOUT THE SAME BOAT I AM TRYING TO TAPER AND I KEEP GETTING REALLY SICK AND MINE IS A HUGE SECRET TOO AND IF I GET TO SICK I WILL BE BUSTED. JUST TRY AND GO SLOW THERE IS SO MUCH I DON'T KNOW ABOUT ALL THIS. THAT DOCTOR IS GIVING YOU A LOT OF PILLS, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO STOP WITH A FREE RIDE LIKE THAT.  WILL IT EVER RUN OUT?

[Chezz]

Aspen,

First off, don't listen to Dirtbag. There are no free rides. And another statement that is used alot for us addicts is:
One pill is too much and a thousand(ten) is never enough.
You can do this.
You just have to get the strength from within.
You have already started this process to recovery. One of the hardest parts is admitting it. Second is reaching out for help. And personally I find this forum to be the best outlet for help and inspiration.
So where are you at as far as meds go? Do you have more refills?
Another hard thing to answer is can you taper. I personally think if you can get your usage down to about 6-8 aday, you can then go cold turkey with minimal discomfort if you can get help from your doc. With meds that will help ease the "pain" from the w/d's. You also should use the "recipe". Mainly the L-Tyrosine. The "recipe" is all over this forum. Just search the archives. I would suggest reading alot of the archives. Just spend some time reading the threads on this site and it will answer 90% of your questions.
We are here to help, and have all been in someone elses shoes at one time or another.
You can get clean. It just takes the WILL to do so.
Regards,
Chezz

[pon]

Chezz is right...you have taken the hardest step already and you have a whole group of people here who are like you and understand...

Keep posting, come here for support and help...people will

you CAN do this if you want to...it will be hard, but you can do it and you are worth it.

good luck, keep posting people will be here for you.

pon

[Aspen24]

I had a really hard day today,  but I made it through!  My doctor is no longer going to give me pain medicine because I told her about my addiction, even though she already knew,  but I feel it might have been a mistake,  because she is not helping me taper off of this medicine,  she is just stoping the refills,  which is good of course,  but bad for the withdrawls!  I KNOW I CAN DO THIS,  WE ALL HAVE THE POWER IN US WE JUST NEED TO WANT IT BAD ENOUGH!!  Sometimes I think the pain is not worth it!  But in the end I know it will be.  If you only knew how much your comments have helped me.  It feels so great to tell someone about this who knows what I am going through because you are going through the same thing!  I am no longer alone because of this site. Just coming to this site is a big step for anyone struggling!  Chezz,  Pon,  thank you for your encouragment!!! If I can be of any help, please let me know!  I am going to try the recipe~!

[Aspen24]

Thanks for the input!  If you need help, let me know.  I am going through the same thing you are. We all are!  When it is a dark secret it is hard to get through alone.  But you are not alone here. Try not to get discouraged!

[pon]

Good for you!  You have done it...taken that big first step...lots more in front of you, hard ones, painful ones...but ones that will bring you through to a life of your own...not a life enslaved to a pill,

Do you have info on what to expect from the physical side of w/d?  If not here is some basic:

Usually starts within 24 hours of your last meds...will be bad the first day, worse the second and the worst 3 & 4 and then generally get better aftre day 4...tapering off to end in 7-10 days.  The emotional/mental side is different and varies for everyone.

These are not hard and fast...but generally they seem to be what most folks face...if you read through the threads you will find more detail...if you don't have the cahnce, post back and I will try to post you back tomorrow with more detail...or anyone else here can too...

hang in there....you can do it...you are worth doing it.  Good luck

pon

[DIRTBAG]

i KEEP OFFENDING EVERYONE AND I AM SORRY IT JUST SEEMS THAT A PERSON WOULD KEEP USING IF THEY COULD EASILY GET THEM I'M SORRY ASPEN IT WASN'T A PUT DOWN. I'LL PRAY FOR YOU THAT WITHDRAWAL IS NOT SO VIOLENT LIKE MINE SEEMS TO BE.  SLEEP WELL EVERY ONE

[ultimate high]

well you are right.  More often than not, tapering is not possible.  There are rare instances like some you'll read here but it's definitley not for me.  I have to run out of the meds completely if I have any intention of getting clean.  It's like a devil in a bottle instead of a message in a bottle.  Ha Ha.  I don't think you're offending anyone but for sure you havne't offended me.  :-)

[ultimate high]

well i have a barb addiction instead of opiates so the withdrawals weren't really bad i don't think.  i say i don't think because when i stopped them cold turkey i was also getting a sinus infection so it was hard to tell what was the sinus problem and what were the withdrawals.  I am one that cannot wean myself.  Tried it and can't do it as long as I have the pills in the house.  I even gave them to my husband to hold and then searched the entire house for them.  He didn't hide them well at all.  Dummy.  ha ha.  But anyway the major withdrawal from the fiurocet that I take is rebound headaches which I had and I was very irritable and anxious and after 12 days I saw no improvement with life or my surroundings or the way I was feeling.  It's sad to say but I was happier, more energetic, more sociable, more upbeat when I was using.  I ended up getting my prescription filled because my step-children were coming for the weekend and I wanted to be in a good mood for them.  I know that sounds completely horrible and stupid but I love my step-children and want to be able to do things with them and have fun and when I'm not on the medicine I feel like I'm a lifeless horrible *****.  So I guess that's just addiction talking there. I have read though on this message board on how people stop the opiates and then after day four they see life in a brand new way.  They say that things seem clearer and great.  I wish it was like that for me when I stop the barbs.  I've had opiates before for surgeries and I luckily never liked them at all.  Nothing but barbs.

[DIRTBAG]

I know rehab would be a vacation, but guess what its not gonna happen see you

[DIRTBAG]

Thanks for the kind words.  Its Tuesday I guess you know that and I am on day six of a self precribed taper I am getting very sick in between and yesterday I was really losing it and thinking doctor visit.  Made it through that and today I have one and I want to be done by tomorrow but I'm not sure if I will really make it.  It's so cool to talk about this to anybody I found myself in my sleepless sweats last night wondering about chezz and if you scored or where you were at with starting over and if your wife is behind you and pon how wonderful that you still share with so many days clean and you the little guy aspen so young and already so strung out I think you are in a great space to already know your in trouble with pills, for the longest time I thought they were okay because the doctor gave them to me.  You are way ahead of the game and virginia girl what part of the insanity are you living today? Peace I love this web site.

[ultimate high]

Hey dirt.  Well I was 12 days clean and started using again so I now have 15 pills left and then I will be starting over again.  Yes it's definitely insanity.  I could stop now and flush the pills but I had a terrible tension headache yesterday and woke up with it again today so I'm afraid I will need the pills.  Yeah story of my life.   Needing that high.  You sound like you are doing well and on the right track.  Please hang in there.  I posted the link to a great website this morning for us addicts.  Check it out when you have time.  Peace.

[DIRTBAG]

12 days were you done being sick?  My bones hurt today and my body is a twitching out of control, its like my skin is crawling its freaky.  I am so tempted to run out and fix it but I stayed home today and although my office is only in the back yard and my boss is my husband and he doesn't know a thing about my life even though we have lived together for 23 years, I feel like I have a little space to myself. What about tomorrow and the next day life sucks like this and when I start getting clean and feeling all these feelings and the rage and the anger man I just want to cover it up.  How about you what did you do with all your feelings over that 12 day period?  Did you yell scream hit something or just try and maintain the nothing bothers me attitude.  Write soon I'll be living on line today.

[DIRTBAG]

I to always need to be on, I mean at work, home, school, mothering, being a spouse...  I get so sick of it but its like I've made this life for all these people and they count on me and in reality I usually hate everything I am doing well resent it anyway and do it anyway and just try and stay numb. Step kids are a huge responsibility I know I was one. I really understand why you feel the need to be upbeat when they are around.  I don't know what barbs are?  Are they reds and don't they make you sleepy?  Does you family know of your battle? Mine is a secret forever a secret. Peace lady friend

[DIRTBAG]

I to always need to be on, I mean at work, home, school, mothering, being a spouse...  I get so sick of it but its like I've made this life for all these people and they count on me and in reality I usually hate everything I am doing well resent it anyway and do it anyway and just try and stay numb. Step kids are a huge responsibility I know I was one. I really understand why you feel the need to be upbeat when they are around.  I don't know what barbs are?  Are they reds and don't they make you sleepy?  Does you family know of your battle? Mine is a secret forever a secret. Peace lady friend

[ultimate high]

no these barbs are 500 mg. tylenol, 40 mg. of butalbital and caffeine.  They are white caplets that dissolve really quick.  They are a fast acting barb.  It's hard for me to even find anything on the internet about them.  Most people who abuse barbs use ones called seconal and I don't know anything about those.  The ones I use are just supposed to be good for migraine or mainly tension headaches.  I want to thank you for corresponding with me.  It seems that not many people talk to me since I don't have an opiate addiction but I feel that addiction is addiction no matter what the drug.  Wonder if I post a message that says "Hey I've tried opiates before" that people will talk to me then.  ha ha.  Good luck in your quest to be clean.  It's a never ending battle.  We can talk anytime.  I understand your demands of everyday life.  I guess if we could just spend a month in the bed without worrying about work or family then it would be easier to get clean but unfortunately life refuses to stop for us.  Take care.

[Aspen24]

Dirtbag-
Please don't apologize! I have not used today,  and it has been the worst HELL,  but I know it will go away!  You have taken the first step by writing in here! You are on the right track.  Thank you for praying for me,  and I will pray for you that you can get through this!  You are worth having a happy life.  Everyone cares about you in here because we are all going through the same thing!  Take care!

Pon,
I am so scared that I am going to fall back into the pills!  This hurts,  but I know I can do this.  Honestly, 7, 8, 10...or more days of hell will be well worth it in the end. What about you?  Are you doing o.k.?  How long have you been sober,  or are you trying right now?  You really have helped me a lot!  You seem like a wonderful person,  and I am lucky to have found this support group.  Thanks for all your encouragment!

[RANDY321]

IM 54 YEARS OLD ADDICITED TO VICS AND ULTRAMS TAKE 120 MG ADAY KILLING MYSELF NO INS WHAT CAN I DO TRYED THE COLD TURKEY ROUTE DIDNT WORK NOW TRYING TO TAPPERING ROUTE RUNNING OUT OF MEDS AND STORIES FOR DOCTERS REALLY NEED HELP FOUND THIS SITE TODAY CAN ANYONE TELL ME DOES THE VITAMINS HELP WITH THE HEAVY W/DS IF SO WOULD LOVE TO START IT SICK OF THE LIES AND STORIES WE ALL MAKE UP MORE THAN READY TO STOP ALREADY PLEASE ADVISE IF ANYONE CAN TELL ME BEEN ON THIS PATH OVER 10 LOOONG!!!! yearYEARS                                                                                                                                                                                                                

[road2recovery]

This is a very old thread...Go to top of page, in green where it say post a question, start a new thread..WE are all here to help you
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