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Vicodin safety?
by wiggum, May 16, 2003 12:00AM
Hi,
Below is a quote from the doctor on this forum:
"Forum-Ph.D.-ATH
(27-Feb-03) squirrel1970 Opiates in general are not especially damaging to us, not as much as alcohol is. The factors associated with use, such as dirty needles or malnutrition, tend to be bigger problems. More than that I couldn't say about your situation. Your baby may have a withdrawal syndrome at birth. I'm not aware of any other significant issues."
This may be true but isnt there a huge risk of liver and kidney damage that comes with the high doeses of acetaminophen that is usually included in vicodan/percocet? Escpescially with alcohol. Is there a relatively safe or at least tolerable amount of both that you can take simultaneously (recreationally) and not have damage or problems with liver/kidneys?
Below is a quote from the doctor on this forum:
"Forum-Ph.D.-ATH
(27-Feb-03) squirrel1970 Opiates in general are not especially damaging to us, not as much as alcohol is. The factors associated with use, such as dirty needles or malnutrition, tend to be bigger problems. More than that I couldn't say about your situation. Your baby may have a withdrawal syndrome at birth. I'm not aware of any other significant issues."
This may be true but isnt there a huge risk of liver and kidney damage that comes with the high doeses of acetaminophen that is usually included in vicodan/percocet? Escpescially with alcohol. Is there a relatively safe or at least tolerable amount of both that you can take simultaneously (recreationally) and not have damage or problems with liver/kidneys?
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I don't think I said that All that I said was to not mix acetaminophen and alcohol. Nothing was said as to the safety of the opiates. They and alcohol do not mix well since they hit the same receptors with variations.
We all know what the doc means. And if you don't, go get your GED.
This can be argued for hours on both sides of the fence.
Now lets move on and stop wasting his time.
Chezz
Has anyone heard of physical numbness assoc. with heavy Oxy usage? I'm writing on behalf of a dear, 20 y/o who admits she uses a lot & snorts it, or does a line? She gets it from her doc & also through friends. The numbness she describes is that it's her skin in the upper extremities, incl. the face. She also also uses xanax & effexor but in my research & pers. knowledge, I don't *think* this could be the cause. And the Oxys are what she uses - heavily. I recall a few x she's told me the amt. she snorted that nt. was equiv. to 40 percs...? I remember being on 8 percs a day a few yrs. ago & wow...that was a LOT for this junkie.
She posts over at DA (Devil's Advocate ;-) & wants help but isn't quite ready yet. I'm concerned about this numbness & wondered if anyone had even heard of it assoc. with heavy Oxy/snorting usage.
Thanks everyone!
Best,
Dancin'
I used to "recreationally" drink 1 or 2 liters of vodka per day. I see no problem with using any drug to excess (improperly; and not as prescribed) as long as you know that it will kill you eventually. Sometimes sooner, sometimes later. Say what you want, but "Recreationally" usually leads to hidden habituation- Habituation to Addiction, and addiction to death... But who am I to judge?
If I were you, Wiggum, I'd find some "Safer" fun.... Like jumping out of airplanes, or racing on the interstate at 100 MPH-- It's MUCH safer than playing with the dragon.
Jess
That numbness that your friend describes is probably the first signs of neuropathy. Neuropathy is simply the result of nerve damage caused by habitual use of great quantities of narcotics and/or alcohol over a long period of time. Our bodies were not made to take a daily onslaught of dope and booze. Over time, that numbness will turn into a constant burning pain that will never go away. Nerve damage is not something that can be "Healed"-- It can be "Covered", but never restored. I KNOW this because I live with it. All I can say is that I hope your friend seeks help before she gets to the point where I am.
Jess
Thank you so much for your reply. Wow...that just chilled me. I'd never heard of that before & I'd abused codeine...big time. Not quite 4 mos. clean now but I had no idea.
I am SO sorry you must deal with this yourself. I can't imagine what it must be like to live with. You must have a tremendous amt. of inner strength. I'm assuming your condition was a result of opiate abuse?
Would you mind if I cut'n pasted this at DA, with your name as credit of course? I want it up there for her other friends to see & until I hear back from you, I'll just send it to her at home with your name of course.
Until your reply, I'd looked on the internet for ages & really couldn't find anything about this as there wasn't much about excessive use side effects.
Thank you so much for sharing, Jess & hang in there!
Best,
Judy
Take care-
Jess
But yea, I think the moral is that our bodies sometimes try to tell us when we are doing something wrong. And it prob is a good idea not to ignore it.
Thomas050
The numbness associated with the face can be attributed to just the overuse of oxy and not a long term thing if she can get a grip on it now.
From the sounds of it, this person is in deep. Zanax, Oxy, and whatever else they are using the the #1 on my list of addictive substances with a TERRIBLE detox period as well as withdrawal.
I hope the best for your friend and that she realizes sooner than later...
THERE WILL BE AN END.
Chezz
My worry is she snorts it, has it prescribed by her doc & buys it from friends. I know she often talks about snorting (2) 80's which from what I've read is a LOT. She's only 20 & my heart just breaks because, as is typical of that age, she doesn't see the danger she is already in, not to mention where she is headed.
Thank you for the info. I hope it's OK if I cut'n paste the info. & attribute to you of course. If not, let me know!!!
Many thanks again & best always,
Judy
I forgot to mention something. She now has numbness head to toe, that she describes as on her skin. "It doesn't feel the same when I touch it." Yesterday she said the numbness returned after she did a line...
Could the overall numbness be the abuse of the Oxy's?
Thanks. You're a sweetie!
Judes
In my opinion - The numbness she is experiencing is DETOX. She is taking so much Oxycontin, as well as who knows what else, that she is actually detoxing in-between doses which is going to give your body an overwhelming sense of out-of-sorts. Something that can't be described, yet only felt when you are taking that many drugs.
That would be my best assesssment. Her body is not "feeling" right, or out-of-sorts until she gets that first dose into her.
She is well over the edge and sounds like she would definetely need a medically supervised detox to make it out of this right.
A MAJOR question is how much Zanax is she on per day, on a regular schedule. As high as her level of opiates is, she can die from that, contrary to popular belief. But the Zanax is SURE to kill if not sustained.
Judes...she needs help, and she needs it soon.
Chezz
Peace and hope they get some help quick. With my addiction if i have access i use period no matter how much i dont want to!
Prayers go out to you...
Suzie
I am so sorry for your loss! Since i do not know your pain..all i can say is that i will pray for you and believe your God will help you to find peace with your loss and yourself in this despair you must feel.
Love,
Suzie
The coalation you speak of is probably not there. I doubt PERSONALLY FROM MY KNOWLEDGE that you can sustain nerve damage through opiate use.
This is in my own opinion from the knowledge I have on the subject.
(Speaking of NORMAL use of course, not shooting up or anything like that)
Give the question to a lawyer on the list fighter to stop the production of oxycontin and you may get a VERY different answer.
Chezz
BEAR22
Your best bet at this point would be to read through some of the lower threads. There has been a plethora of information, as well as URL's to go to to find out more on it.
In short, it is an opiate agonist/antagonist that works to help people taper off of their opiate of choice without producing the "high" of the normal opiate. Although it does have its own sort of "feeling of well-being" associated with it.
It is pretty complex in nature to describe in laymans for me. That is why I suggest reading as much as you can here and then reading up on the URL's people have posted.
There is no magic bullet to make withdrawals easy, nor pleasant. Nor should there be, otherwise we would all be on a high fest with no reason to stop.
Good luck and happy reading. Ask away if you have any other questions. Between the, lets say 50, or so posters that post often, have more knowledge on addiction and recovery than a 1000 regular doctors, in my opinion.
Especially Michael, whom you asked about medication. He has self-educated himself via the net on medications and has selflessly helped an innumerable amount of people here with his knowledge. My hats off to him, and the others here that come her to do no other than to help others...
Chezz
Bear
Bear
Thanks Bear22
Micheal covered all the bases buddy. He was spot on with the ensure, or slimfast. Great way to get some nutrients and vitamins when it is hard to eat.
On the hooked on weed issue, I wouldn't worry about that. Pretty hard to get hooked on it, from my knowledge.
As for the cravings, if you can get some wellbutrin or zyban (same med, different names for different usages). Wellbutrin is marketed for depression, Zyban is marketed to assist with quiting smoking. I have heard it works pretty good with cutting down on the cravings for narcotics. Its worth a try. Or another anti-depressant like effexor.
Michael might have some suggestions on meds that will help with the cravings as well.
Good luck. You are almost over the hump. Day 4 is usually one of the harder days. After day 5, I usually feel a LOT better and pretty much home free.
Try walking and getting out as much as possible at this point. IT really helps to get some exercise, even if it is just cruising the neighborhood.
Chezz