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Vicodin

Can you become addicted to Vicodin in one week? My doctor put me on it for pain. Because I am sensitive to medications I only take 1/2 in the morning and 1/2 at night. I take Tylenol inbetween. I had what I might call withdrawl even though I didn't stop taking it. Suffer from depression and would really like to put a stop to the medication if that is what caused it.  My heart felt like it was beating out of my chest, chest pain, body shaking and scared. It lasted about 10 minutes and I felt like I might die. Or , was this a panic attack?
Thanks for your help
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Avatar universal
......I'm sorry for what you've been going through.  Are you in remission now???  Cancer has plagued my family from one side to the other.  We just burried my grandmother 18months ago, and my 31 year old friend w/ 2 small children 2 years ago.  I watched my grandmother suffer, and asked for her time to come.  SHe couldn't take the pain, and there was nothing that could be done for her cancer.  I live in a place where chemicals take up our breathing space as though it was air.  We have high cancer rates here, and often wonder,"am I next?"  You sound very hopeful, and almost like your doing ok now.....  This is wonderful if you've beaten this horrible thing...I wish you all the best.
I have degenerative arthritis, and bone spurs from many many broken bones in an auto accident.  I was told for years that I would have arthritis, but went on w/ my life...because, hey..I'm young right?  Well almost 10 years later,and this dreadful disease is everywhere w/ spurs to boot.  I have been on my medication since January, and still have never taken more than 3 or 4 of anything in any given day.  I know my pain will progress, and nothing can be done about it.  I've come to terms w/ that, and the difference between me and a cancer patient is: I won't die from my disease, just suffer for the rest of my life, and I'm still somewhat young. There is one ray of hope (aside of my faith, that has carried me thus far), is pain medication.....this has given me some hope, and I know this has deytroyed many lives, but there are 2 sides to every story, and hopefully we will revise our current standards, and give people suffering from addiction better choices in treatments, and pain patients the medication they need to have some dignity, and some quality of life.....hey and we all win, don't we.  God bless you, and take care!
Love,Angelica
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Avatar universal
As far as drug addiction goes.....I have cancer so I have been on most of all pain killers that are one the market. They all work great but they also have many many side affects....which suck!!!!! I was on Vicodin, Oxycontin, Muscle Relaxers (of all sorts, smoked some weed ......all to dull the pain. They all worked, but little did I know I got addicted to all of them. The good thing is that you can get off of them.....I did and I still have day to day pain. Cancer really sucks the big one. To everyone that is addicted to this ****......you can get off....just walk away from them....I did! It is hard but I figured...do I want to die fighting for my life or do I want to die the easy way out.....OVERDOSE!!!! I AM taking my chances and fighting for my life! Thanks ya'll for listening!!!!!
Peace!!!
Femme
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Avatar universal
As far as drug addiction goes.....I have cancer so I have been on most of all pain killers that are one the market. They all work great but they also have many many side affects....which suck!!!!! I was on Vicodin, Oxycontin, Muscle Relaxers (of all sorts, smoked some weed ......all to dull the pain. They all worked, but little did I know I got addicted to all of them. The good thing is that you can get off of them.....I did and I still have day to day pain. Cancer really sucks the big one. To everyone that is addicted to this ****......you can get off....just walk away from them....I did! It is hard but I figured...do I want to die fighting for my life or do I want to die the easy way out.....OVERDOSE!!!! I AM taking my chances and fighting for my life! Thanks ya'll for listening!!!!!
Peace!!!
Femme
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Avatar universal
......There is a name for those minefield explosives:
"napalmdoctorfindingatomiclifedeystroyingkillerbombs"
and those little devils are planted from North to South in my state......DOC, Beware!
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Avatar universal
like everyone and everything, pain specialists are not all created equal. Buy a diploma from Jamaica and,presto, you're a pain specialist. Obvously, pain speciaist should be a calling, like being a priest. You're desire to relieve suffering should be what drives you and gives your life meaning. Thank god there are such doctors. But it's a minefield, sorry to say.
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Avatar universal
I'll keep it in my email address book.  Thanks a bunch.  We'll chat soon.

Love,
Annie
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Avatar universal
I send you prayers and healing energy... am going to be off the forum a little bit... ***@**** if you are in any need. Love, Brighty
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Avatar universal
Thank you so much for your prayers and interests.  I was told when this mva occurred that I would have arthritis, but being young and invensible.....I didn't buy one bit of it.  I went on w/ my life for years, built two houses, had another child, and just kept going and going like the energizer bunny.  THen it happend.  I started having serious problems.  Partly due to the hardware, and Yep, I now have degenerative arthritis, in areas that are far beyond reach.  This is like a cancer that eats away at your joint tissue.  Considering over 20 broken bones.....I will develope many problems.  So from a physicans stand point, I will continue to get worse (maybe end up in a wheelchair) riddled w/ pain.  The x-rays show this happening now.  I had to finally come out of the clouds and down into reality.  I am finally coming to terms w/ it.  I will have to be under doctors care from here on out.  But what doctor????  Still looking.  WIsh me luck.  

Love ya!
Annie
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Avatar universal
Thank you for an enlightening post that EVERYONE should see... but it's so far down on the board now that I doubt if many scroll this far down when they log in !!!

Your daily courage is inspirational... and I am appalled at what you have to go through. I would not tell you to not go to the streets except that you could become a criminal and then every attempt to do this will be subject to another violation... this is why people end up in jail ... and NO judge or proscecutor will every buy a line that you could not get what you wanted from  a pain management specialty practice even though you know the truth. They have you by the short hairs.

I hope you do not call yourself an addict since you are dependent on this drug to be functional.... there is a difference... and I can only offer my prayers that you will be healed. Do the medicine men believe there is hope of healing from a medical stand point ??

Love, Brighty
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Avatar universal
....You asked if there was anyway to test for pain: a tool or test of some sort.  Not really.  I can tell you this...I couldn't be released from the hospital after surgery, because my vitals were out of wack due to the pain.  They had to titrate the medication......and finally gave me morphine.  I suffered for 6 hours till this was given.  Then I got nauseaus from the morphine...go figure. lol  I was able to get up out of bed and get dressed.  Then able to go home.  Then the real nightmare hit.  Pain, very severe for 3 days.  I was only given 5mg. of hydrocodone.  It felt like someone was hammering nails into my leg from hip to knee.  "I shall survive" in the words of Donna Summer, and I did.  lol  
I hope this offered some understanding, although I have to tell you I still remain somewhat divided, at times, on this issue.  I feel the way you do.  Addiction IS a horrible thing to endure, but so is pain.

Annie
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Avatar universal
There are some new pain killers out there,but now w/ all the negative media and abuse...they won't be prescribed for long.  These meds were developed to be longer acting and safer on the liver.  Still highly addictive.  This is really all we have, now.  NSAIDS, are not pain-killers.  I was given that line of bullcrap too.  I know people have died on that stuff.  Tears your insides up to shreds.  NSAIDS are not the best choice for long term therapy.  Doctor's are killing some of their patients, when giving this stuff out like candy.
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Avatar universal
Thank you for your interest.  The sad part I have discovered is Pain mngmt, (where I live) is a joke.  I have gone to 2 clinics and have traveled as for as 80miles to one of them.  The first clinic was a joke.  The doctor came in and was quick to open my gown.  No other doctor had to do this, not even my ortho.  That's what x-rays are for.  Anyway, he wanted to do an injection while under x-ray in the SI joint.  I dropped him and never had it done, only to discover recently that this is to dangerous and won't work in my case.  The SI is very hard to reach in my situation.  My ortho told me this.  So God must be watching out for me.  OK, then there is "Doctor No it all" 80 miles away.  Told me NO NO to narcotics, and dammed anyone who would give them to me.  He made me spend money on braces, gadgets, and gizmos.  LOL  What a joke.  I haven't seen him in one year.  I've recently checked my provider directory and found 2 anesthesiologist (they are the ones that usually go into the Pain field), only to discover they have pulled out because their poor patients were becoming so dependant.  And they act like they feel for these patients, my ass.  They are worried about scrutiny from the DEA.  
Any way my pcp has prescribe some Vicodin, but I am made to feel like a criminal.  I have my Drivers license photocopied and I have to go through two nurses, and sometimes he makes me come in to see him.  Then I get all the "looks."  Never mind the fact that I shouldn't be driving when I am in pain. He never "calls" in a script.  They have to be picked up, so your DL can be photocopied.
Then there is my Orthopedist.  He has been treating me for pain the last few months, because I am post surgery.  I tell you I am tempted to go to the streets.  This is a mess.  I know there are many worse off than me, but what is being done.  The gov't is saying ok...it's time to stop ignoring chronic pain and treat it like a vital sign......but on the other hand they are hauling doctors in like criminals.  Doctor's have to report every script to the DEA.  They are scared to death.  All this talk about doctor feel good prescribing to be rich is a joke.  Any doctor that has the guts to prescribe a narcotic pain-killer is taking big risks, and doesn't get rich off of it.  That's a joke in itself.  The paperwork is enough to deter them.  
I have found a Rheumatologis on a chronic pain site.  His ofc. is in the next town.  I left a detailed msg.  w/ his nurse (recorded), asking if they treat degenerative arthritis also.  That was 3 days ago.....I guess the Post multiple trauma and degenerative arthritis part scared them off.  WOW....It sure felt good to get this off my chest...I hope I haven't bored you to death, lol.  Did I cover everything. lol  Thanks for your concern, it really helps.

Love, annie

PS...Pain specialist are supposed to be the educated ones on how to prescribe, what to prescribe, who to prescribe to, and how to wean off when necessary.  This has not been my experience here.
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Avatar universal
Sorry I didn't see this post right away !! It was a thought provoking expose' on how the government has it's fingers in every pie to negatively affect the lives of people like yourself and those who can and should be able to provide quality care to improve your life.

I agree totally!!!!
]
You make an interesting point in your comment about my concern for my daughter. That she does not have chronic pain and was not a narcotic pill addict ( benzo's yes... different drug and use altogether) would not relate to heroin use except that a legitimate script for severe and prolonged pain could re-awaken addiction. I think that just comes with the territory and there is no easy way to predict where truth and integrity of the recovery process will be diminished by the desire to continue with meds when they may no longer be needed. No doctor can police this accurately. Pain is a horrible insidious thing.... only the person with it can know what they need.

This may sound dumb... but it seems that since narcotics certainly do create involuntary addiction and cause major life problems... and that pain is also a major problem ... that there should be a way to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I thought that pain management clinics were the places that could determine via medical understanding of the causes of pain how to treat those people with serious intractable pain for as long as needed.... are they also sending people out the door and dismissing them as med seeking ???  There is a big pain management clinic in my town. I have no clue though what other areas offer. I figured that patients such as those in Dr. Hurwitz practice could find relief from places such as this. ( ?????????) And I figured that they would have more elbow room to prescribe without fear of DEA actions. I am speaking of doctors who are trained as pain management specialists. ???????????????????? Maybe they have lot's of restraints put on them.... I really do not know so maybe you can tell me.

So basically, does a person with serious chronic pain have more success at a specialty practice and do specialty practices for pain have more privilege in long term prescribing and dosages than an non pain specialist ??

Is there any machine or test that can "see" pain and it's intensity which can be used as a diagnostic tool to learn if there is pain and how intense ???

You can see, Annie, that I am very clueless about this type of thing and maybe we can educate people like myself who would want to give unrestrained treatment to those who really need it and reduce the problem of non-medical addicts trying to perpetrate an opiate need for a pain need. (And that in itself is another issue that I also am sensitive to... true addiction.)

Love, Brighty



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Avatar universal
....Don't get me started on them, JB.  I get in arguments on the phone w/ those incompetent A-holes....lol  My dad owns his business....and my mom fussed at me for telling them off. lmao
We own our business also.  I have to send everything certified receipt.....Cause they say "we didnt get it.", it never arrived. lol.....yeah right.

Love ya

Annie
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Avatar universal
Don't forget about the allmighty above-the-law Internal Revenue Service.  They've been on my tail since 1982.  Maybe we need another Revolutionary War?  J.B.
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Avatar universal
The support you give me in my beliefs of the whole ordeal...gives me courage.  I am glad that You(Tom), Spook, Brighty, Cindi, JB, Dee Dee, Kerri, Pelle, Hope...Gee I could go on and on......have supported me here on this "addiction" forum.  I suspected that there was a serious problem in our legal system years ago.  It wasn't till I came here, that I realized my assumptions were accurate...an addiction forum, of all places.  
Eventhough you all have been through a living hell w/ drugs and have every right to nock 'em down.....you have supported my beliefs where they are concerned.  I am angry, sad, and totally dismayed by what I have found out via the internet, about "the war on drugs."  I've only had my computer for 8 months...so I had no access to these stories beforehand.  Isn't it ironic that when I needed the pain medication the most, we had decided to get a computer for our business.  The events unfolded in such a timely manner.  Then I discoverd you all.  Wow, a place that I could come to, and speak my heart and mind.  Would have never believed it.  Thank you for you support, Tom/Pat.  I really need it.
Love ya!

Annie
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Avatar universal
Your Dr. Hurwitz story is heartrending and infuriating. To be honest, I hate the DEA. I don't believe they've ever done anyone any good, ever. They're effort in the "war on drugs" is a sad joke. The dealers remain untouched while the easy victims, the law-abiding pain patients among us get crucified. Why? Because it's easy to prosecute law abiding citizens. Professional criminals are much harder to prosecute. It's common knowledge that most DEA field agents are practicing drugs addicts themselves, either out of necessity in order to make drug deals without getting a bullet in the head, or simply because they have access and unlimited freedom to use. Down with the DEA, I say. Send them all to a special rehab for assholes.
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Avatar universal
I'm going to answer your prior question on this thread.  I didn't post the whole testimony up there, because I didn't want to use up to much space in the Hedhurtz thread.  
As far as I know, Dr. Hurwitz was exonerated on all 6 counts, eventhough; they still gave him trouble....What ever happend to "innocent after found not guilty??"  There was another doctor accused: Dr. Solomon.  He was not so lucky.
Here is the rest of the testimony:
When my patients came to see me, they were terrified that I too would reject them, or subject them to more tests, more procedures, more expense and delay.  But my approach was different.  I asked them what had worked in the past, and that was my starting point.  I let their response to medication guide my treatment.  If one medication didn't work, or made them sick, we - the patient and I - tried another.  If a medication became less effective, we increased the dose.  Sooner or later, we found what worked best for each patient.

The response to pain relief was dramatic.  People who hadn't worked in years went back to work.  People who could barely get out of bed began to move, even to dance.  Some no longer needed crutches or a cane.  Almost everyone reported that their lives were better.  Many said that I had given them their lives back.

When word went out that my license had been suspended, there was panic as patients contemplated what it would mean for the pain to return.  Lives that had been rebuilt on the basis of pain control had lost their foundations.

(Note: In this photo at right patients laid on the floor in agony as the Medical Board couldn't care less about their pain. That, and with what they did to ME, made me mad enough to stop working and help the patients, starting years of therapy that I'm still in. Several others committed suicide which I barely escaped, and one died of shock after his meds were taken away overnight by police. Dr. Hurwitz is not my doctor yet I could not avoid helping his patients. At one point Jim Klimek, above with no legs, drove 3000 miles for just two refills as I rode along. Another atrocity, but done by a pharmacist who "gouged" him by $2000 thanks to those uncaring Board Members. That kind of "Medical Board" must be done away with forever. Skip).

After I lost my license, the fear was palpable:  pharmacists afraid to fill my prescriptions, doctors afraid to take my patients, and patients desperate for continuity and certainty.  Added to the stigma of taking morphine, methadone, or Dilaudid, was the stigma of being one of "Dr. Hurwitz's" patients.

There were a few happy stories.  A few physicians who had known my patients before they came to me and saw their improvement while under my care were willing to continue the treatment.  Pain specialists at some of the academic centers and a few brave doctors in private practice were willing to take my patients.  Some of my patients, those who had saved a reserve supply, were able to obtain a modicum of pain relief and avoid the symptoms of abrupt withdrawal.

Some stories were not so happy.  A few patients went through horrible withdrawals - a number who availed themselves of medical help were admitted to psych units and detoxed cold turkey.  Some found doctors who were willing to treat them, but were unwilling to continue what had been successful medication regimens.  Some were exploited by doctors who imposed expensive and risky procedures as a condition for receiving pain medication.  And some just gave up, exhausted by insurmountable obstacles.

There were two suicides directly attributable to the prospect of inadequate pain control.

How Does The Police-State of Medicine Affect Medical Care?

The quasi-criminal liability imposed on physicians distorts clinical information and medical judgment, impedes the development of clinical expertise, undermines the ethical commitments necessary to medical practice, and leads to the abandonment, wasted lives, and deaths of patients with intractable pain. Holding physicians liable for the misbehavior or dishonesty of their patients turns physicians into policemen and is, in principle, incompatible with effective medical care.

In what other context do we sit in judgment of a patient's moral worth to determine his eligibility for treatment?  Is a former addict with AIDS less entitled to medical care than the victim of a contaminated transfusion?  Or less entitled to pain relief with opioid medications?

To me, the unequivocal answer is no.  We are not society's policemen, nor should we be.  I am not arguing that we should be indifferent to the use to which our prescriptions are put.  I am arguing that patients deserve the benefit of the doubt, that a Draconian response to the occasional, but inevitable physician error in providing medication to the dishonest patient who may be misusing or diverting medication has the inevitable consequence of denying pain relief and perhaps condemning to death the honest one.

Effective medical care requires trust in both directions.  A patient must trust that his physician is acting in the patient's medical interest.  But how is this possible when the physician's career is threatened by doing so?  A physician must trust that his patient is reporting his circumstances and symptoms accurately.  How is this possible when the  patient is afraid that the truth will look suspicious, and that merely looking suspicious will prompt abandonment?

Under current regulatory policies, distrust governs the treatment of pain and subverts the usual clinical calculus of risk and benefit.  Patients are subjected to a modern version of trial by ordeal, where their credibility as patients is measured by the pain and indignity they are willing to endure and the expense they are willing to incur.  And physicians who are unwilling to impose these indignities as a condition for pain treatment are punished with the destruction of career, reputation, and livelihood.

In the end, the only important clinical question should be:  What is best for the patient?  As physicians, we treat individuals for the simple reason that they are fellow human beings, and our treatment must respect their humanity.  Respect requires that patients be afforded the dignity of choice - the freedom to choose or refuse treatments based on their calculus of risk and benefit and cost.  The current regulatory regime effectively denies most patients the dignity and respect that simple humanity requires.

What Can We Do About It?

The stakes in this battle are too great to leave its outcome to the valiant efforts of the dedicated few.  We need reinforcements in the form of legal help, publicity, and financial support to help make boards of medicine and the DEA legally and politically accountable for the misery they engender.  Intractable pain acts are not enough.  And if boards of medicine were, as a practical matter, legally, ethically and politically accountable, such statutes would  not be necessary.

Our strategy should be to raise the cost to the regulators of their regulatory tyranny and to lower the cost to physicians, pharmacists, and patients of defending their rights.  We need to destroy the public's naive presumption of the regulators disinterested good faith, to debunk the myth that medicine is being regulated in the public interest, and to reveal the abuse of power for what it is. Only then will we empower physicians to help their patients, and patients to control their pain.

THIS IS MY PROBLEM W/ THE DEA.  THIS DOCTOR WAS BRAVE, AND DIDN'T HAVE THE HEART TO TURN HIS PATIENTS AWAY.  LOOK HOW THEY USED HIM IN THEIR PLATFORM OF THE "WAR ON DRUGS."  I KNOW YOUR CONCERNS ARE FOR YOUR DAUGHTER'S ADDICTION, BUT WHEN WE "POLICE DOCTORS AND MEDICINE" THE WAY WE HAVE, IT EFFECTS ALL FACETS OF TREATMENT AND MEDICINE;THEREFORE EFFECTING ALL OF US.

LOVE,
ANNIE
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Avatar universal
Please, where are you ?????????????????????????

I was not one of the ones smart enough to find your e-mail address encrypted somewhere...... otherwise I'd e-mail you!!!

I tried to go back and find it but those posts were deleted long ago.  Please get in touch. Love, Brighty
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Avatar universal
This is where good kitty's come for aftercare... to lick their paws, stretch out in a sunny window and purrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !!! There's lots of stroking and some kitty fights too !!! :-))

Hope you stay here and purr for the most part.

Spook is off licking his wounds and dealing with the stuff of life also. He is a really smart person  .... and I think a really good person. You probably missed his posts on the pain of hitting his bottom and finding God who offered him healing.

Not to worry... without knowing that, stepping in on these posts was probably very confusing... well that's the best word I have :-)) Love, Brighty
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Avatar universal
I am laughing so hard this am... a good way to start the day. You are hysterical.... Booooooo hoooooooo hoooooo..... here kitty kitty !!!!! LOL !!!!!! You are both delightful !!! Love, Brighty
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Avatar universal
HERE KITTY, KITTY, KITTY,
Well,it's good to see that things are looking better for you, I guess we all have our "hairy" days. I don't think ol spook is the kind of guy that would wish really bad things on people, maybe a furball or two at the most, nothing a little prune juice can't fix.  I think what upset him the most was the chuck manson thing, but maybe spook will come back and you two can maybe start over?  I hope things continue to get better for you  Oh yeah, the firecracker thing?  I was having a bad day myself    cindi
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Avatar universal
I keep doing that.......I KNOW how to spell Hear....I notice others do it too.  Here we go....hear, hear, hear........lol
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Avatar universal
Hey.....we joke around a sometimes here.  We do.  All of us have problems.  Look, I'll be the first to tell you, When Spook first started posting here....My antennas went up, and I was totally against the grain..so to speak.  I thought that he put himself above others here, and his philosophy was somewhat
"New age"...and here I am a Bible toting christian...and yeah I have problems too.  Ater Spook and I were able to get into it over our beliefs (our forum friends stepped aside diplomaticly) His true spirit was revealed.  Ya see he has problems too, and my heart goes out to him.  I have decided not to get into lengthy doctrinal postings....and he and I get along ok now.  He's human, and has taken a bashing here.  I only hope he comes back.  We have no idea what is going on, truly in someones life,and our words may push them over the edge.  Gosh, I'd hate for that to happen, wouldn't you????  
Sorry for the problems you've had to endure, and if your assumptions were right, and you were only seeking to be protective, then my hat's off to you, but everyone deserves time to be known.  There true inner self will be revealed sooner or later.  

Love ya!
annie

Ps.....I here cola is good for those furballs....lmao  Disolves those babys right up.
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