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WENT TO AN ADDICTION SPECIALIST TODAY
I went to an addiction specialist today.  I am 6 days clean.  He wants me to start Sub and to do an outpatient program and also two days a week one on one sessions with him.  Do I need the Sub since I am 6 days clean.  The problem is I can get clean but not stay clean for any amount of time.  He said the sub will help keep me from using.  He said he has patients that have been on it for 2 years and some that only stay on it a few months.  Please give me advice.
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I was taking 7 of the 5mg percocet a day, I never took anymore than that.  And by the time I see this doctor on Monday I will be 10 days clean.  The counselor said that I need to take it because I keep getting clean and than using again, and he said the sub will stop me from doing that.  I dont see it that way.  I said to him....then ok if I am on sub and someone puts 5 percocet in front of me than I will not take them and he said no. I dont agree with that, maybe I am wrong, though.
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777686 tn?1235808014
10 days.
Man you are out of the woods by that point.
You fight will be mental at that point.
Sub will just cover up the problem.
You can do a quick search about sub online and you can read the stories.
If you think coming off 35mg of perc is bad.
Try coming off sub, when you have been on it for a year.
I have never done it, but I heard it ***** bad. really bad.
They are going to tell you what they want you to do...not necessarily what you should do.
I agree with everyone.
Doctors are devils who want your money.
You don't need it.
You need to talk to people like us everyday.
Joshua From Oregon
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199177 tn?1490502134
PLZ dont go on sub after 10 days clean from 35 mg a day.I cant believe they are even suggesting it .I understand that you have relapsed many times but you have not been getting any recovery care.Therapy, meetings .Sub won't keep you from using you will keep you from using .I so dont want you to go to this doctor I know normally I am very neutral but I just cant be this time this is going to end up harming you so much more then helping you .
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I feel really uncomfortable with this sub thing.  It is just a gut feeling that I have about the entire thing.  I have felt really good today.  Starting to see things more clearly and not in such a fog.  This time has really scared me.  My husband let everyone in my family know what was going on with me as far as using.  My dad even came to my house yesterday with my husband unexpected and he started crying.  I really didnt know my dad cared so much.  Maybe this time will be different with my extended family support, and my husband is not letting me out of the counseling.  We have an appointment together on Monday.  He has been seeing this counselor for a month now to learn how to deal with everything and I did not even know he was going to him.
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I  have always found that I should listen to gut instinct. I really agree with everyone and thats all I will add to that.

And you have a great husband and family. I would think with some clean time and counseling with NA/AA and medhelp and your family behind you - you should be able to make it. The sub will always be there immediately if you cant stay clean again. At least print some of the sub literature - pro's and con's - and let your Dad and Husband see them before your appointment. You dont need to be pressured into a sub program. Particularly by family that thinks its in your best interest, even though they know nothing about it. Tell the counselor to give you a chance. And good luck to you.........you know we want to hear from you whatever you decide.
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199177 tn?1490502134
You could also print off the experiences in the "health pages" about sub so they can read them ..
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495284 tn?1333897642
Follow your gut on this one.  Get to know you and use the tools you will learn to stay clean.........without the sub!!!
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I think that is what i am afarid of is "getting to know me".  It is time though...I need to face the music and learn to start dancing.  It's time....I can just feel it.
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222369 tn?1274478235
It just gauls me to see people on here saying you're 6 days out, you're so near, you're almost there, you don't need this, or that, or another. You know, quitting these things is easy, I've done it at least a hundred times now. The real problem I have is when people take their time to go to an addictionologist, a doctor who specializes in this stuff, and then goes into a room full of people with possible 10 college level health classes between us and decided here to make a decision to change their lives. We are here to give help and understanding, not to jive, disagree, or blatantly tell someone their doctor's advice was wrong (I'm sorry, for your type of cancer which my great aunt had..I wouldn't do the radiation and chemo. What that doctor is doing is criminal). We have a medical doctor community who answers such questions like these with medical facts, not innuendo and second hand gossip. This is a PERSONAL choice between this lady and her doctor. Scaring here with horror stories, or deluging here with your armchair medical license will not help. Provide her with documented facts if you have them, encourage her with all you have, but please leave the doctor-patient privileged where lit lies...between the doctor and patient.
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495284 tn?1333897642
You will like who you are!!!!  We all know what a great person you are.  Its time for you to see it too.
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well madsmom we dont know anything about sub but we wish you well and gods speed to get on the right road the road to RECOVERY wishing you well soon for you and your family the very best of luck to you   always thinking of you  J & K
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727151 tn?1231185117

"The Addiction Communities" are comprised of addicts in many stages of detox and recovery. We are from various ethnicities, countries, beliefs, and backgrounds. We ask that you be courteous and respectful of all of our members.

Sry it gauls you. Im sure you have your reasons? This however is NOT, nor do we claim to be the MEDICAL DOCTOR COMMUNITY. There's a section in this site if one choose's to go there. But she came HERE and ASKED US for advise. With addicts come horror stories. 6 or 10 days clean is a milestone for some of us. I personally just want whats best for her, you and everyone else. If there's something you can add to HELP her and us understand more about recovery plz do share. But to be told were more or less a non educated ya-hoo  armchair whatcha-ma-callits isnt helping?  Now i have to worry about Gauling people if i try to help? Im sorry i guess. Ill look for my privileged spots and start acting like the non addicted upstanding pupil im not..... Craig
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199177 tn?1490502134
I am sorry but I would have to question any doctor that would consider putting a patient on long term sub maintenance for a 35mg habit a day .
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452063 tn?1324078516
Hon. I don't know much about Sub but my gut says it's not a good idea. It will only postpone the inevitable. I've relapsed over a dozen times and I am still sorting alot out.It takes months to really start to feel better mentally. To feel like there is not something missing every single day. You really have to take a leap of faith and believe that the same will happen to you as has happened to everyone who made it long enough to find out. It's a hard stretch of time that goes slow and is full of tempting thoughts and cravings but you will get stronger the more you fight it. Think of it as a garden. If you water the flowers they grow strong and beautiful....but if you water the weeds they will eventually overpower the flowers. You have to stop watering the weeds and you will bloom:o) I'm here for you no matter what. GBU, Corey
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495284 tn?1333897642
You took the words right out of my mouth!!!!
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777686 tn?1235808014
Yes man!

We are just giving some friendly advice.
Subox for 35 mg a day?
Come on.
If the devil ever walked the earth, he would wear a white jacket.

Joshua FRom Oregon
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Hello!!
   I see that this has been a VERY popular post.  You may read this, then again you may not - since there are so many here again of me. But I'll take the chance.
   Sweetie, I was on one thing after another for over 8 years - first vicodin, then percocet, I took eight at a time, 5mgs. I believe. Even after several years of that behavior I was fortunate that I could put it aside without any physical problems. But I blew out my back and I was put on morphine and oxycotin. The past 6+ years it was 180mg. of oxy a day.
   I went into detox this past August. They gave me suboxone. I was completely out of it for nearly a week ... I just slept. If they told me what I was taking, then I have no memory of it whatsoever. When I found out I was confused as to why they would use narcotics to get someone off narcotics. I had no clue how everything worked. It wasn't a good place ... but I didn't pick it.  I came home after eight days and became very sick - I was continuing to detox ... but I didn't understand that.
   Long story short, I checked into another detox place and they put me back to sub.  I stayed with it because of my back .... the Doc's made it sound like it wasn't a bad drug at all. After five months or so, I found this site and read up about sub.  That's when I decided to wean myself down and get off the stuff.  That was eight days ago.
   Madison, if I had only known!!  Kicking oxy was simple compared to this lousey garbage!! It is HELL ... and I would literally NEVER touch this stuff again. The Doc's I've seen speak about sub as though it's better for you (and for pain) than the other narcotic's ... they also told me that getting off of it was, I quote:  "no worse than a mild case of the flu.."  OH HOW WRONG!!!  The pharmacutical company(s) are giving them incorrect, partial or aschewed information... but that IS what they do afterall. Most of us wouldn't take half the poisons they are rushing through drug trials (as well as) padding wallets somewhere in order to get their garbage to the market a.s.a.p.!!
   I pray that you can resist any pressure to put you on another narcotic - no matter how they tell you that it's 'different' than others. Yeah, it's different ... it is nothing short of sheer torture to come off of it!! Best not to start in the first place! ... All the above posts are excellent ... the people here are the BEST!  They know what they are talking about .. trust them!  But, as always, in the end, the CHOICE is yours.  I hope and pray that will so much support here, you will make the best choice!  I figured out WHY I wanted to use drugs to 'escape' living, using my pain as an excuse. We all have to hold ourselves accountable at some point -- and reach deep down to find our own separate reasons for why we do what we do.

God Bless Sweetie ... Hang tough & don't give in!! Lot's of Hugs!!
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WonderWhat ... I think you made wonderfully valid points ... afterall, what else are we here for??  What good would we be doing if we begain second guessing and censoring each thing we posted here ... Thanks for your spot-on comments!

Intothedark ... Devil in a white coat! Absolutely perfect ... atleast regarding my experiences. Thanks for YOUR post .. and for making me laugh outloud for the first time in a week!  

Thanks, ever so much to you both~~
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I did read your post...I will read everyone that comes across, and I do appreciate all of your advice as well as everyone that has taken the time to help me.  Thank you and what you have said does make a lot sense.  I am going to see this doctor on Monday...that doesnt mean that I will take the sub...I am curious what he has to say and I have a lot of questions for him.too.  I will post on here as soon as I get home to let everyone know my decision.  Thank you ALL again.
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giving you the heads up, since you are new to the site, research the people you take serious, read a few of their post, bio. and the doctors usually have links to their practice so you can learn more about them, read them!!!

when i was on suboxone i thought it was the best thing until it took me down and i went through sub wd
perceptions change when we are on the other side of something, does not mean anyone on this forum  is a bad person, or that the others are bad people, we are just at different stages of recovery, with  a little research things will make sense
if you need more experience with people who have been on sub. and have detoxed successfully OFF the drug
goto opiatedetoxrecovery.com, there is an entire section, just for this drug, only people who have experiece with it are allowed to post, its a good RECOVERY site

you are playing with fire going to that appointment,
like i said, i do the intake for a detox, (plus more) i have watched patients go from being totally willing to get %100 clean, and then meet with our doctor (just one of them,not the others) and next thing you know, i am literally giving them a suboxone pill

as far as suboxone being related to chemo, i can honestly say i have been through suboxone treatment and chemo, i have a hard time finding a connection to the two
but everyone here has a right to an opinion, and everyone here has a right to respond
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Thank you for the information...I will do some more reading tonight on the sub.  So..are you saying that if I go to the appointment to only get information about the sub and discuss it with the doctor that he could possibly talk me into taking the sub?
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340590 tn?1290955741
i am not mtgoat..lol..but i am gonna give ya my opinion on that question anyway...of course they are going to do their best to make it look like it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  he will try to convince you the ppl with bad experiences didnt follow the instructions for getting off the sub...thats what they do and they are good at it...kinda like a used car salesman...lol
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199177 tn?1490502134
That is totally my concern is he is going to talk you into taking them .They will tell you all of the positives and how if you taper you will have mild wd ect ect and people with negative stories most have not done it properly.Many have been told this and found out the hard way it did not always work that way .I am very afraid between the pressure from the doctor and your family that you are going to walk out of there on them or with a script I really hope that's not what happens
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536882 tn?1225516459
Regardless of what dose she was on, she has successfully quit on her own only to return back over and over.  She has had the supportive husband/family with her each and every time and STILL goes back.  I have seen many times on this site "if nothing changes, nothing changes".  How true?  No doubt the counseling and one on one will be a HUGE help, but we all remember what fog our brains were in when we were 7, 10 and even 20 days sober......not what it is months from that point.
I have quit twice CT off of opiates, and the last time had to go to detox.  Yes, I am on sub.  No it isn't a miracle drug.  If you really want to get clean, you use it as a stepping stone when you can't otherwise make that step on your own.  What it doesn't do for you is the recovery.  That is YOUR responsibility.  That is why it is important to go to groups, meetings, and counseling....figure out WHY you do what you do.  Sub does not make me high, I have NO desire to use, I don't crave....the sub OR opiates.....I don't want to get high....and I don't abuse my sub.  I am dedicated to my recovery and go to 2 meetings a week, and an aftercare once a week.  THATs where the true healing takes place.  The sub allows me to do it with a clear mind.  I didn't have to wait 72 hours to take it, and I did have some withdrawl when I started it.....but it was tolerable.  Absolutely NOTHING like going CT.  7, even 10 days is a huge accomplishment, but we all know thats just the physical part.  It seems Madisonjsmom is having difficulty once the emotional/psychological part hits her and thats when she returns.  I see no problem with taking a short course of sub to get you through that time.  Just as many on here are trying to talk her "out of" taking them, true that she may be swayed into trying it.  Regardless, it is her decision.
Just want you to know there are two sides to every coin.  But, don't go into this assuming Sub is a miracle drug  it isn't, as with any drug it has side effects and if stopped abruptly, can give you nasty withdrawl.  It won't be easy to face your demons, even with sub, but from my experience it does help.  You are doing the best thing you can, and that is talking about it, and sticking around even through the relapses.  We will support whatever decision you make.  But once you decide, commit to it 100%.
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401095 tn?1351395370
long post...maybe counseling would be enuf for u girl..that is a low dose to start sub...do what u gotta do tho...glad u r trying once again..sometimes things arent right in our lives..we quit the drugs but our lives r still not right..so we use again...take this time to get ur life straight and if u are happy with ur life..maybe u can stay clean..best of luck to u
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I didnt read everyones posts on here but DO NOT get on the subuxone.  If you have 10 days clean its all mental at that point.  I was on methadone and went back to using heroin after completing the program.  Now Im on Subuxone.  I started at 12mg and worked my way down to 1mg.  All of those drops were tolerable but trying to go from 1 to 0 or even 1 to a 1/2mg has been a nightmare.  I havent been able to do it and dont know what to do.  Anytime I drop to 1/2 I wind up puking and feeling completely sick again.  Enough to the point where I want to use again.  If I were you I would stay FAR away from Subuxone.  Everyone pitches it as a wonder drug and it is but if you do your research (which I did too late) most people say its a lot harder to get off than methadone.  You should be looking into an opiate blocker similar to Naltrexone.  Im not sure of the addictive effects of the drug although I am not sure it has any.  Good luck.  
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to wanttobefree from mtgoat911 who is free, ofcoarse i am on here to talk people into not taking drugs, that is my primary purpose here on this addictions forum
"""""Just as many on here are trying to talk her "out of" taking them, true that she may be swayed into trying it.""""

"""I am dedicated to my recovery and go to 2 meetings a week, and an aftercare once a week.  THATs where the true healing takes place.  The sub allows me to do it with a clear mind."""
ummmmmm????????a brain on opiates is a brain on opiates

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WOW..I could not read through all the post..Look how many people here love and care about you...you are one of the sweetest girls i have ever met...I can't beleive a doctor would consider doing this to anyone, with that amount of DOC you take, or with the clean days you have...This makes me soooo mad...Listen, you already know that you need some kind of aftercare, some kind of counsouling with hubby, support from family...PLEASE try that , before sub....I hope you don't go to this appt...But i know the choice has to be yours..I am here whenever you need...
hugs my friend
r2r
sorry i have not been around, just have been so busy....PM me anytime!!
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what happened? waiting for a report!
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OK Yall...Loved,Loved,Loved this doctor...He is amazing!  No Sub for me...First I saw the nurse who evaluated me and got all my information.  She was confused as to why the counselor would send me there for sub because I was not in withdrawls and my habit was small..and my urine was clean.  She kept asking my husband and I is there anything else that I should know...she kept saying this is it?  You are here for a 35mg a day habit?  Anyway after that I saw the doctor...He asked me many questions...He spent an hour and fifteen minutes with us. He asked me about my background and how I started taking pain meds...I told him that I feel in love from the first one that I ever took. He asked me  if i was buying my pills off of the street, and i told him that I doctor shopped and got them from friends.  he said that is usually how it starts.  He said that he has to very careful who he prescribes them to, because he said you never know who is going to be addicted after that first pill.  He said that three in ten people who get their first perscription from a doctor become addicted to them. Gosh there were so many details that he went into as far as how the brain and neurotransmitors function while on them and then when comming off of them.  He said that sub was a very personal choice and he did not want me to make a decision today, in fact he said he wants me to wait until he sees me again in two weeks.  He said the only way that he would put me on sub is if there is no way that I can quit and that would be after going to aa or na meetings.  He said that is a must for me!  I asked him if we was to put me on sub, what mg would he start me at and he said 4mg once a day.  I kept asking him questions about the sub and he answerd them, then he said lets not even talk about the sub anymore right now.  He wanted to talk about depression.  He thinks that is why I self medicate and he sees it everyday he said it is so common.  He said that he has attorneys, judges, football players, college kids(mostly oxycotin), mothers, nurses, he said I would be amazed at the people who are on sub.  He has one patient who was shooting I think he said 4 bags of herion a day when she first came to him.  He said you would not believe the difference in her then and now.  He put her on sub, then she got a job, got her kids back, and is going to college to be a nurse....she was on the street when she came to him..He said sub does have its place for people like her and others, and it can change there life dramatically.  He also said that you do have withdrawls from sub and you have to be medically supervised while comming off of it.  Sorry I am all over the place here...I am just excited...Anyway the outcome is that he put me on an antideprassant and wants me to go to meetings and try it like that and he will see me back in 2 weeks.  He did say that if something happens from now and two weeks, if I relapse and need him to call and he would meet with me anytime.  He said he would think things differently if I was taking 30 pills a day and jumping out of windows to get my pills.  I told him that i have not jumped out of windows latley...lol  Sorry about all of the "He Saids".  I also want to thank all of yall for being here for me and supporting me, I love each and every one of you and I could not of made it this far without everyones help.  I will never leave med help, it is wonderful!  Another thing....my poor hubby...I feel so sorry for him.  I have put him through hell and he is so drained...I can see it on his face.  And on more thing this doctor is an Internal Medicine doctor, what does that mean?
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340590 tn?1290955741
i am so glad to see your update.  AND you sound so much better.  of course, you could have just taken my advice it was FREE...LOLOLOL...you know i love ya.
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452063 tn?1324078516
Good to know that your OK. You sound great.You can do this, I know that you can.Glad you didn't chose the Sub yet. Love, Corey
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Wow awesome. I am glad that he thinks 35mg a day is a small habit b/c mine was only 40mg at 5 mg doses. Maybe its not going to be as tough as we think. I believe I am over the bulk of physicals just the mental battle now!
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199177 tn?1490502134
I am gald they seemed to be looking at your best interest not just making money .You can get so much postive out of this all you have to be is open to it and honest with yourself.
avis
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390416 tn?1275188687
Internal medicine is the branch of medicine concerned with the study of the physiology and pathology of the internal  organs and with the medical diagnosis and treatment of disorders of these organs.

I'm glad to hear things are looking up for you!!
Congrats on your clean time!!
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617347 tn?1331296681
Ohhhhhhh, yesss, this sounds the very right way and even the most intelligent way to do things for you, olé for the doctor and  great for you :)

im really happy for you, it was so good reading this post and your explanations, you seem full of hope and strenght now. go for it, nena !
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306867 tn?1299253309
He sounds like a great doctor !  Although, I truly believe Sub has saved lives and has it's place in addiction recovery, I am glad you didn't go that route.  Your habit was small, but big or small addiction is difficult. It's your determination to get through this without sub that's impressive. Your doing all the right things, NA, counseling.  I just know your going to be a success story.   So happy for you !   Keep it up girl !
Hugs, Mary
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so good to hear from you!!! sorry i am just now reading this, i was at the beach last week
happy to hear abotu this doctor, he is actually treating your addiction, depression and telling you to attend meetings, so wonderful
i am surprised he said that one of his patients got custody back on suboxone, the judge i went through told me that i could not be on sub., maybe its different where you live
congradulations on everything, let me know what you think about meetings, people usually love or hate their first meeting
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1349676 tn?1277916049
Well I feel awful with a 80mg-100mg daily habit :-\ and reading all this horror about sub, makes me scared to use it now...dang it. >_<  I wonder if it would be ok SHORT term. My habit is about 200  10/325 Norco every 34 days. :(

PS so happy for you, Madison!
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1331115 tn?1401672466
Hopeful---This is a really old thread you should start a new one if you have questions as there are many people who can give you answers. So go back to the forum and click on the button that says "Post A Question"
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I went on sub hoping 2 to b on only temporarily after I'd been clean (4 cravings) and now wish the drs. Truly knew what they were doing. Instead of tapering they start such high dose w no plan 2 ever take ne off. I detoxed on My own it wAs pure hell! Just like coming off oxys & my shrink tried to tell me there wasn't any withdrawal from subs 16 mg a day down to 0 the next day. I almost jumped over her desk and strangled her stupid self!



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Not sure where you all are, but in my state, a sub doc has to write the script.
He/she can only have 100 pt on the roll at once.  You can not get it from a doc who had not completed the addiction training.  Interested in hearing how it works for all you.
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Back for one more opinion, when you go back in 2 weeks you will be through WD. Do not take the subs.  Now would be when you need them.  IF you get out of hell now, do not let them give you a one way ticket back.
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1711184 tn?1308354397
So I have been on opana for about 8-9 months about 40-80 mil aday up the nose is it possible for me to go ct if I had a week or so before I have to go back to work. This drug is ruining my life I can't function properly if I don't have it within a hour or so after I get up. The anxiety and rls and no sleep kills me what can I do. I was two days clean and it's just so everywhere ppl calling me asking me if I need it. What do I do Jrockn502 please respond and let me know if anyone can give me any advice thanks
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1711184 tn?1308354397
So I have been on opana for about 8-9 months about 40-80 mil aday up the nose is it possible for me to go ct if I had a week or so before I have to go back to work. This drug is ruining my life I can't function properly if I don't have it within a hour or so after I get up. The anxiety and rls and no sleep kills me what can I do. I was two days clean and it's just so everywhere ppl calling me asking me if I need it. What do I do Jrockn502 please respond and let me know if anyone can give me any advice thanks
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1711184 tn?1308354397
So I have been on opana for about 8-9 months about 40-80 mil aday up the nose is it possible for me to go ct if I had a week or so before I have to go back to work. This drug is ruining my life I can't function properly if I don't have it within a hour or so after I get up. The anxiety and rls and no sleep kills me what can I do. I was two days clean and it's just so everywhere ppl calling me asking me if I need it. What do I do Jrockn502 please respond and let me know if anyone can give me any advice thanks
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From a very personal experience, I can tell you very honestly that due to chronic female pain for 2 years, I was on 750 mg. of Vicodin.  After my surgery to relieve the pain, I was finding that I craved the Vicodin.  At the suggestion of a friend, I went to a doctor who "specialiizes" in opiate-dependency.  I was thrilled to have been given Suboxone (8mg/daily) initially.  After 3 years, my husband almost left me, I lost friends that I once had very close, fun relationtionships with, and cared about very little; although I did have energy.  After my husband shared his concerns, I decided that day to quit--cold turkey.  I am on day 10 and it's been hell.  I believe coming off the Vicoldin was much easier.  To anyone that is considering taking Suboxone, please think again.  It is a cop-out and a very, very addictive drug.  Weaning would not have been a choice for me; I would find it too easy to cheat and relapse.  I am d-o-n-e with it all.  I can't sleep at night, I'm unmotivated, have chills, am restless, etc.  It's hell on earth.  I will get through this though.  I only wonder how long it will take to "fully recover".  My biggest regret in life is ever getting on it.
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im trying to get off subs and im down to a 1/4 a day but it still hard to get off. Can anyone tell me how hard it will be to get off a 1/4 a day?..I,ve been taking a 1/4 a day for more than a week.
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1827057 tn?1397523877
Hi Gardav,you would do way better if you post a new question on the forum.This thread is over 3 years old.Idk why the above ppl are anwering her question as if it were yesterday.I don't have experience with subs.Sorry I cant help.Go to  med help and post a new question in the addiction forum and alot of people will be there to help you
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Been off subtex seven days arfter nine years ov being on twelve mill deal down when do enagy cume bk  will it get better soon
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