WHY ARE MORNINGS THE WORST

I AM ON A BARBITURATE TAPERING PROGRAM AND THE MORNINGS ARE DISASTERS.  MY MOOD SWINGS ARE WORSE, I CRY, I CAN'T COPE BUT AS THE DAY GOES ON I AM A LITTLE BETTER.  I HAVE THREE MORE WEEKS OF THIS AND I FEEL LIKE I AM NUTS.

[vicki595]

Hi~

I have A TON of experience with this drug.  I just now saw your post and I'd be happy to help in any way I can.

How are you doing now? What dose have you been able to taper to per day?

Mornings are bad,I know so very well...but it passes. I might have suggestions for that.

Vicki   xo

[Jan737]

You are a godsend.  I started taking them last April.  I started out slow then the presures of life hit.  About August it esculated to the point I was taking 12-16 per day.  I have gotten it down to 9-10 a day but I am having a rough time.  I have called all kinds of doctors to include psychiatrists and not one will touch me.  Please give my all information you can.  How fact can I cut them with out having seizures, Etc.

Thank you

[vicki595]

Hi Sweetie~

You are on track because you want to stop and have cut your dose by 3-5 per day.How long have you been at that dose? How quickly did you do that?  If you're having a hard time at that dose it's likely you cut too quickly.  Fioricet CANNOT be tapered quickly. The seizure threat is great although everyones' seizure threshold is different.  Also,you just won't feel normal AT ALL even though you've got plenty on board.  Now,here is where I must say that a Dr. should really be working you through this.  He/she could offer a workable taper plan and prescribe anti anxiety meds for a short time.  But,I see you've been pushed away by the professionals which makes me furious!!!         I'll share with you what I have done:

I was taking upwards of 20 Fioricet per day for a LONG time.   I loved them and they loved me back.  My best friend in my irrational,drug addicted mind.      Several months ago they became the"drug of no return" in that I was getting sick but continued to take them!!   God!!!    My tolerance had grown exponentially but the lethal dose is always the same so...I had some trouble.   That's when I went on the campaign to quit.   I did it very slowly,decreasing by one tab per WEEK until I got to 6 tabs per day.  By then,for me, I felt I could stop completely but I didn't because I had used this drug for over 25 yrs.  So,I continued to taper until I got to 2 per day. I'll say here that this was all a very sad process because every day I knew that soon my "best friend" would be gone forever.  The upside was that I didn't suffer physically but,of course,I wasn't really getting the effect that I so adored.  I stayed at 2 per day for a week and jumped from there.  I didn't know what would happen but I was closely watched by my husband who assured me if I began to have any difficulty he would personally go to get me more fioricet.   Well, I did just fine(physically LOL).  I began taking all the vitamins during this taper and I know they helped.  I ate better...VERY important!  Lots of fluids and exercise.   I took those last 2 Fioricet on Thanksgiving Day and hang on to that anniversary date whenever I get the slightest craving(which I do because our brains play nasty tricks on us).

Trust me,tapering is not an easy thing but with this drug it's a must and you need to be ruthless about sticking to the plan AND you need support!

The good news is that you've taken them for less than a year so perhaps you can imagine life without them and focus on all your other coping techniques that you employed in the past.     Have you shared this with anyone or has it been the big,ugly secret as it was with me?

This is enough for now,I think.  Post back with the answers to my questions and any other questions you have.   I promise to help as much as I can.  You are not alone anymore.    Also,here are two names of members you should look up: "Flob" and "Gottaquit".  Read their posts and journals.

You'll be fine...it's a bit of work but you can do it kid!

Vicki   xo

[vicki595]

I just want to mention,also,that I am by no means a"perfect role model". During one point in my self directed taper(I did not use an MD for reasons related to my profession) I went on a pretty good binge over a 4-5 day period. I about killed myself accidentally while in the midst of a little Fioricet party.  I have no memory of those days. They are just not there...awful feeling.   It was at that point I decided to quit all together.(You see,then I was only TAPERING in my brain not QUITTING!  DUMB DUMB DUMB )   That's when I found this forum AND told my husband I was in BIG TROUBLE.   It was a pitfall and a painful one.  I share this because,again,our brains play tricks and tell us "a few won't hurt" etc...watch out for that,stick to your plan. It's a horrible drug for those of us so warmed by it...


V.

[Jan737]

You said you decreased it by one table a week.  Was that a 5 or 7 day week?

[Jan737]

One more thing.  Did you do your taper on a 24 hour clock, meaning did you take so many every so many hours even if it meant setting an alarm to get up and take them or did you just take your alloted amount during your waking hours?
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[vicki595]

Jan~

I tapered every 7 days.  I took them during waking hours only.However,I was awake most of the time LOL!  The damn things never made me tired. I only slept 4-5 hrs. per night.

Very good questions...

I'll check in on you in the morning.  Try to sleep.  I take Melatonin;it works nicely.

V.   xo

[vicki595]

How are you this morning?

[Jan737]

I finally have some hope because of your advice.  

When you started cutting them down, what were your symptoms.  Were you weak and nervous and crying all the time.  Were you having mood swings? This is all happening to me.  Did you sweat at night and get hot and not be able to cool off?  I feel like, at times, I am going bonkers.

Thank you so much.  You are a Godsend.

Jan

[vicki595]

Hi~    First,you are not going crazy. Everything you feel is normal. As I said last night, I think you tapered to your current dose too quickly.  How long have you been on your current dose? Tell me that...it's important.

When I started tapering, I did okay because it was SLOW at first.  You need to give your body time to adjust to the dosage change.  This is one badass drug and difficult to adjust and quit!    We're all different so listen to your body...

I did not feel weak. I had usual mood swings. I was anxious at times.  I felt hot and sweaty at night...still do actually so that's probably just me.

So...how much are you taking now and for how long at that dose?


V.  xo

[Jan737]

I am at 8 now and have been for two days.  I feel as week and shakey (shaky) as a noodle. I am going to stay at that for 7 days or should I stay at that longer since my dosage was decreased so quickley.  I came down from 12 to 8 in about 12 days.  

[vicki595]

Also, does anyone know what you're going through?

[vicki595]

Okay...on 8 per day for two days... Here is what I would do:  Take 2 tabs at a time every 6 hours AROUND THE CLOCK. This will avoid the peaks and valleys.  In 5 days assess how you feel. If you're still shakey (shaky) etc...don't decrease yet. Wait until you feel more stable and decrease by one tab at a time.  I'll be around here to try and help you
along.  I know it's a bear but it's doable.  You feel this way because you decreased too quickly and you can't do that with this incidious drug.  Hang on...you'll be fine. The fear of the unknown may be contributing to your anxiety.   Keep posting !!

V.  xo

[Jan737]

Ok, I will do the two tabs around the clock until I feel more stable.

As far as anybody knowing what I am going through I will try to put it in a nut shell.  Back when I was taking 12-14 a day I told my husband that I had a problem and asked him to take the pills and keep them away from me and to help me reduce them slowly.  He thinks a person can just stop and go cold turkey.  My daughter (who is grown) took the pills from my husband and is the one that has helped me reduce them.  My brother who knows everything about everything told me last Thursday that I needed to just "Suck it up and quit acting like a brat and stop" and that that was my excuse for just not wanting to deal with life.  I haven't gone to a support group because I feel so crappy.  That is how and why I found this website.  The irony of it all.  I was raised by an alcoholic father and my mother was a prescription addict and I am in school majoring in socialogy/psychology with emphasis on substance abuse and I don't feel like I can help myself.  I feel like I am doing the best that I can and I feel like that with my daughters help I have done good in decreasing them just too fast but we didn't know what we were doing.  I know I can beat this with help.

jan

[Jan737]

One more question.  Did you ever worry that your liver was going to give out or fail before you could get off of them.  I know anxiety is playing a bit part in this.

[sweatinit]

I dont mean to butt in here, but I can not tell you just how mad i am! (Oh bfore i go, congrats to both of you!) I was taking fiorocet, along with percs and vics for a long time, but fiorocet was always my DOC. Have had headaches since i was a kid. Anyway, i never knew the w/d were this dangerous! I just quit along with every thing else. I was not taking that many (Maybe liek 4 a day). but was combo it with the others. My dr never told me and just gave them to me whenever.
I am 16 days clean today and tomorrow is teh day i can get a refill. My husband said get them and I will hold them and only give you when you need it. I really do suffer with headaches too, which stinks becasue nothing else really seems to work. All day i have been fretting over this becasue i know i would have no control.
Thnak you for this post and your honesty! It has helped me to make my decision and that would be a big fat no.
Do you have any suggestions what can be used for bad aches instead? thanks to both of you!

[vicki595]

Okay~  I see the picture here and I'm sorry for your lack of support.  Non addicts just don't get it and that's perfectly understandable. But, to tell you to just stop was very,very wrong. Thank God you're smart and sought help and info on your own!  Your daughter is an angel to be helping you like this.  It's important to have some one to dole out the pills and offer love and support   :)        I only told one person. My husband.  It was terribly hard but he was wonderful about it (to my great relief) and has been my #1 supporter. No one else knows of my addiction.  

It's actually no accident you became addicted to this drug...it tends to run in families;the propensity toward addiction and addictive personality. Don't beat yourself up over that!!

I have a few questions:  Is the fioricet prescribed by a Dr.?  If so,have you talked to him/her?   Are you in good health?  Do you take any other meds?   I'm not trying to pry at all.  Only answer if you feel comfortable.   It's just that this is such a tough drug and as much as I believe you'll do well, I'd feel a whole lot better if you were working with a Dr.,for your sake.  I can help you with that,okay?

Vicki      xo

[vicki595]

Jan~  I was concerned about my liver but ALWAYS had normal liver function test results.  I have lab work done twice per year.  Go figure,huh??   But,that's the reason I asked about your doctor. These are things that need to be checked,that you should have checked.  Tell me about your Dr.

V.  xo

[vicki595]

To Sweatinit~

OHHHH!   Good for you!  Two weeks!  WOW!      Glad we helped you in your decision to refuse that refill!   Good girl!  (Obviously I'm excited for you).

What kind of aches and pains?  Motrin 800mg is what I take for aches etc...For headaches/migraines, I take 2 Excedrin Migraine and if that doesn't work I have Imitrex which is an rx,non narcotic and works great. Check these out with your doctor because not everyone is able to take them depending on medical history etc...

I must say that the combo of meds you were on had A LOT of Tylenol. I'm very glad you're off that train!!

Vicki   xo

[sweatinit]

Thanks so much! I really can't tell you how much you guys ahve helped me int he past 2 weeks.
I have a few things going on...although i read where soemone said that your pain incraeses for a bit after you stop using. Anyway I get wicked bad headeachs and have mouth pain. No one can figure out the mouth thng, which is how i got started on the other pills. They finally had me go to go a neurologist and he wanted to put me on physch meds. and i said no. That was it..no more drs for me. I decided to slef medicate. So here i am a year later and from the neck up, i am a mess, but clean :)

[sweatinit]

I forgot to mention that i have been taking naprosyn and it does help a little but not much.

[vicki595]

To Sweatinit~  This forum is really great,I know.  I get a lot of inspiration reading others' posts.

Psych meds huh?  LOL   Well, to be fair, some drs. go that route offering antidepressants because some have a secondary gain of managing chronic pain. But,I don't know what they were trying to give you. Anyway, Naprosyn is just okay,I agree.  But,here's the good news: After we're off pain meds for a while, our pain seems to DECREASE and is much more treatable with otc's. I'm sure you'll find this to be true.

Take good care~    Vicki

[avisg]

sweat did they check to see if u have TMJ

[Jan737]

The doctor that wrote the script won't even see me.  I have called maybe 10-15 other docs and gone to see a few and they tell me to go back to the one that wrote the script.  I have called shrinks and been told they don't know enough about it to comfortably treat me.  I called an addiction specialist that was listed in my insurance book and he said that he could help me but that he didn't accept insurance and that it would be 400.00 cash. The he started talking about giving me a benzo taper on an out patient basis and I don't know what it was but I felt so uncomfortable that I didn't go see him.  I have given up with one exception, I have an appointment Feb. 3 with a shrink but I hear he is a total ***.  I don't know what else to do.  I have not been to a shrink before and am a little scared.  I am 52 and had my physical in April and all blood work came back great.  The reason I asked about the liver is that I have read so much about the dangers of Tylenol.  When I tried to talk to the doctor that wrote the script he gave me another script for Klonapin 1mg and said "that should take the edge off your nerves".  I took one one night when I got them quite some time ago and couldn't wake up for two days.  Other than that the only other medication I am on is Hctz and elavil 25 mgs at bedtime for sleep, like it works.  I am and always have been an extremely anxious person.  I feel that the fear of the outcome is causing a lot of the problem.  Vicki, any help you can give I appreciate.

Jan

[sweatinit]

thanks to all for your help! i am going to make an appt tomorrow to get that checked out. it makes perfect sense! Jan, Good luck to you. keep us posted.

[vicki595]

Hi Jan~   Well, you've done it all as far as drs. are concerned.  I'm surprised the dr. who originally prescibed this won't see you.  That's really wrong and borders on abandonment which is illegal to do to a patient.  I do think the addiction specialist may have worked for you.  The drug he gave you is often used for withdrawals from opiates not barbs but I won't argue that with him.  Most often,folks are tapered either with the barbiturate, as you are doing,or with phenobarbitol.   I would try one more time to get an appt. with the Dr. who prescribed the meds IF you're comfortable with that(which I'm sure you're not).  So...stick with your plan/taper for now. Tapering with the point of quitting is a good thing. See the psychiatrist and hear what he has to say. Tell him everything. Don't be nervous...he's just a person.  If you don't like him,don't go back. In the meantime,you're still tapering. It's win win.    

I agree, I think you're fearful and not getting a lot of support from your husband and brother,which doesn't help.  Hang tough Jan. You've got your sweet daughter and when you're ready you can get a lot of support at meetings like NA and,of course,right here.      I really think that once you get on a stable taper you'll feel a lot better.    Have you checked your b/p recently?  It should be okay but check it. Right now,you are your own doctor!   As far as your liver goes...glad it's okay. I would expect that. You haven't been on the fioricet for that long.  

So,bottom line, try to relax. Be proud of yourself for weaning down this far. Just stay there for a bit. You should feel a lot better soon.   Please, don't worry.  Also,don't drink too much coffee. One cup per day max, if at all.

I'll be around~

Your friend, Vicki

[Jan737]

Thank you for all of your encouragement.  I am pretty certain that the reason that the doctor that wrote the script won't see me is because when he wrote the script he told me that the drug was not addictive because it was not "controlled" and I could take as much as I needed.  When I went back to him to ask for help I told him that I had been researching it and that I had found fiorinal and it was controlled and that the only difference between the two were aspirin and tylenol but the addictive property were the same.  Now I did not say that to him until he had told me several times that I couldn't be having problems with it because it wasn't controlled.  Things went down hill fast after I told him about the research I had been doing.  He has not sent me a letter saying he won't see me, the office just won't make an appointment for me.

Thank you for all of your help.  You are an inspiration.

[Jan737]

I have been so self absorbed that I have not taken the time to congratulate you on your accomplishment.  So congrats. and the same goes for sweatinit.

Jan

[vicki595]

Hey~   That doctor is an IDIOT.  Time to find a new one for your other meds and general healthcare needs.   Good Lord!!  AND...not giving you an appt. is still abandonment especially when you're having a problem.  In the meantime, pharmacists are a great resource so if you are friendly with one you might ask some questions.  Also,if you're EVER feeling really bad...go to an ER. I hold ER drs. in very high esteem.  That said,I think you'll be just fine.  Do you have enough pills/refills for this taper plan?

Big hug!

Vicki

[Jan737]

Yes, the idiot gave me a prn script.  I am going to find another doctor but I feel kind of fearful telling my story given the reaction I have gotten.
I checked my BP and it is actually a little low for me.  120/69 but that is ok.

Big hug back and thanks so much.

[Fen871]

Hi hang in there you can do this.

[Jan737]

Thank you!!  I know I can.  I feel a little more with it and stable today.  

[vicki595]

Hi~  Nice to read you're feeling more stable and "with it" today.  Good  Good  Good !

Vicki   xo

[Fen871]

s

[my_mayberry]

first i should admit i haven't read the entire thread....sorry if i'm missing any info...

but i don't understand why ANY doctor would EVER say this drug isn't addicting because it isn't controlled. TRAMADOL isn't controlled either, nor is phenobarbital/belladona...heroin came in the form of childrens cough syrup at one time, for gods sake......so not being controlled means nothing. there are 3 types of barbs...short acting(seconal), intermediate acting (amytal), and long acting (phenobarb)......there's also ultra short acting, but those aren't ever rx'd. those are only used in hospitals. the most abused have ALWAYS been short-intermediate acting barbs, which is why they are all C-II drugs, EXCEPT for this drug. this drug is in the same class as nembutal and seconal....2 of the most abused drugs of all time......and yet he thinks it's not addicting? he has no right to be a doctor. phrenilin  (butalbital/apap) isn't controlled either, but the manufacture packaging SAY'S it's addicting. what an idiot.

and i'm very surprised you're finding it so hard to find a doc to help you w/d from these. i told you i didn't read everything thats been said so again, forgive me if i missed anything....but i have never found it difficult to find a doctor who understands the dangers of this drug. it isn't controlled, but it needs to be. it's actually illegal in some countries.

there are huge numbers of people who get severely addicted to this drug and it all starts because some idiot doctor swears up and down that it's not addicting. it's exactly what happend to me when i was 8....my mom listened to the doc who said 'it's not addicting' and i didn't even know what addiction was.......all i knew was that if i faked a headache, i could take a pill and feel REALLY good. any doctor who says this drug isn't addicting should no longer be a doctor.

[Jan737]

Hi Vicki:

I have cut down to 7 a day and now I feel like I am losing my best friend.  Any advice.  

[vicki595]

Yes, I know it FEELS like you're losing your best friend...slowly,painfully everyday. Tapering was a sad time for me,as well.  But, it's got to be done.  So, the best thing to do is change your thinking.  This is not your best friend.  This is a murderous enemy that WILL kill you;so you need to kill it first and you're doing that.  I had to really be strong during this process so I just escaped from the thought of it,wouldn't think about the taper,kept very busy and just took the tapering down pills with my vitamins. I did not keep them in a rx bottle. Much of this was mind over matter.  I was sooo happy when the taper was over and very proud.  Personally,Jan, I'm still happy. I was so close to killing myself with the next rx(acidentally) and I KNOW it!!

So, try to stay strong.  You're doing great!   Are you having any physical w/d?

Vicki   xo

[Jan737]

Vicki:
I don’t have a desire to go back but I feel like I am grieving over the loss of something.  I know I can and will do it.  Thank you for your support.  Just to know that someone has made it throug it helps.  I am proud of you and I don't even know you.  

Jan

[Jan737]

I am only having anxiety and sometimes some muscle cramps.  I feel week a lot but I have been so sedentary that any exercise makes me feel like jello but I am trying to walk on the treadmill and move around more.

[vicki595]

Hi Jan!!   Yes...more exercise;you'll feel better.  It does really get better everyday but you do have to push!  As I've said, much of this is mind over matter.

One thing that really helped me greatly was taking vitamins. Vit C,the B vitamins and Ca with Mag.  I take a large amt. of Vit C(4x the rec. dose) but that's a personal thing with me...I believe we all need much more.  The Mag helps with leg cramps.

You're doing great Jan...I'm proud of you,too!!

Vicki    xo

[sweatinit]

Hey Jan and Vicki,

I ahve been followign this post and Jan, I am so proud of you. It's so hard; both physically and mentally! You're doing terrific!

I am going to the University of Penn today for an appt with a TMJ specicalist. I am hoping that he can diagnose me! Wish me luck...

No more fiorocet for me...29 days clean.

Kathy

[Jan737]

Kathy

Good for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Stick with it.  I am.  It is so hard.

Jan

[sharzi]

Hello all of you!

Im so glad I read this thread.  Here is my story in a nut shell:  I started taking fioricet at the age of 19 for migrane (migraine) headaches.  I did not know it was an addictive drug for the first 7 years.   I also drank on a regular basis at that age.   Eventually.. I ended up in a treatment center for alcohol and fioricet addiction at the age of 26   I quit drinking all together..but could not give up my "best friend" fioricet.  Truly, this is the "devil's drug" as it's been put before.   Fioricet put such a mind-bending hold on me and my thoughts -- I have been it's prisoner, literally, for 30 years.  

Soooo.. Should I give up and cave to this evil addiction?  I almost did.  But today I say Hell no!!! I am now a 48 yro. with 21/2 months of clean time from this drug!!  I have hope today!!  I have found (this is just me personally)  that I need a MIRACLE every single day.  There is no human power that can relieve me of this bondage and obsession.  Fioricet become my God, my best friend, and my only way of coping with life for 30 years.  

So, how am I clean and sober today?  Well.. the only way I have found to stay clean is by attending AA or NA meetings every day.  Is that alot?  Well.. I found a way to get drugs every day.   I found that I can not do this alone.  The fact is:  Addiction kicked my *** and won!  My only choice is to surrender to a better way!  Thru surrender I have found great hope and help that I did not believe was possible.  One day at a time .. I can do this.  But only with alot of help and love from my new friends in AA.  Every day that I wake up clean is a day that I have been blessed by another miracle.  With God's grace, I will spend tomorrow clean as well.  

If you want to talk to me more, please feel free to send me a post.  I feel for you so much.. and hope and pray that you will find peace and healing.  

[my_mayberry]

it's REALLY hard to read what some of you are writing. i've read a LOT of stories from addicts and how they feel about their drug of choice....but most of them were related to opiates and i never really could connect with what they were saying. i can't say this drug is more powerfully addictive than any other, but i can certianly say that it seems that those addicted to fioricet really do feel as though it's their best friend and as though it truly is god-like. i've written lots of poetry about this drug and in everything i write, i can't help but compare it to a god because when i take it, it's like god is inside me. it's the only time i'm free. but the problem is that no matter how high i get (and i've been really high).....i always want to get higher. without self restraint i feel certain i would eventually kill myself with this drug.


for whatever it's worth....at my worst i was taking about 15-20 a day ( i was only 15) and had been taking that many for a few years. i had a VERY stupid doctor, obviously. anyway......i was able to taper from that over the course of a year or so and eventually the drug was removed......i was FORCED into sobriety  and i hated it. i did very terrible things.....said very terrible things but eventually after a couple years went by, my mind cleared some and i realized what had happend and how close to death i truly was. there were a few times during this period from around 15 to 18 where i seriously considered suicide.....because as stated, i truly DID feel like i lost my only friend...my god. i cut myself a lot because somehow that pain dulled the ache for the drug. but eventually i turned 18 and now i could go to any doctor i wanted and at 19 i moved out and i could get my drugs again and my mom couldn't stop me.......but i didn't. by this time i was in control of my life again and though i truly missed my drug, it was like missing an old friend who'd died years ago. you ached for them, but it doesn't consume you, and it's not always on your mind anymore. so i thought i'd share this for anyone who wants to know what the next few years will be like being clean....if you don't already know. eventually you DO get to a point where the drug doesn't own you anymore. the problem? even after nearly 10 years of saying no to the urge and having that drug be a distant memory.....just one slip and it's all over. i slipped and i've been on a 3 year binge. all it took was one prescription and one day where i thought "wouldn't it be nice...." and i did it. i ended all i'd worked so hard for. now i have to start all over and i hate myself for it. sometimes i'd much rather take the whole bottle and just let it have me instead of fighting. sometimes i'm very attracted to the idea of letting this drug kill me.....of seeing just how high i can fly before i reach the limit. so the only reason i'm even replying.....if anyone reads this at all......is because if any of you are able to quit even for a few weeks.......or months.....or even years....the worst thing you can ever do is to even just take 1 because when you do it's all over. there is no 'just one' with this drug.....it really does end it all. even after 10 years clean it ended it for me and i hate myself for it. perhaps if i'd been able to read a story like the one i'm writing now, i never would have 'slipped' in the first place. i'll never know.

[vicki595]

Sharzi and Mayberry~

Both your posts are eloquent.  This is truly the "drug of no return".  Yes, it does take a miracle every day!   I DREAM about Fioicet;last night and the night before!!  In last nights' dream...I found a bottle of Fioricet in a drawer and just started taking it like "No problem here,ah huh...ah huh".   Good Lord!!!   This tells me that,although I have clean time built up,the addiction is VERY close to the surface and may be forever!!   YUCK!!!      So...one day at a time,everday,always x infinity...

Love to all~

Vicki

[my_mayberry]

close to the surface for now....but it won't always be. there was a time when i was clean where i could go months without even thinking about it. the problem was that the urge becomes harder to resist when it does hit you.....because you no longer feel like an addict and because of that you really do convince yourself just taking 1 wouldn't hurt anything and you could really keep it under control.

the most interesting thing of any sober time i've ever had is that when i DO return to the drug, it's SOOOOO disappointing because the high isn't what i remember it to be. i believe this is because the half life of the butalbital means taking it daily builds it up to a level where the 'high' is much better than from just a one time dose. i don't know for sure. i think similar things happen when a person returns to an opiate for the first time after a long clean time. they feel some relief but mostly wonder 'why was i ever addicted in the first place....'

but given a couple more doses, and you're right back in hell, believe me.

so far my clean time the first time was close to 10 years........more recently, i have spent about 3 of the past 6 months sober (though not all in order)......2 weeks here and 2 weeks there......i'm TRYING so hard to kick this drug and i feel that EVENTUALLY i will be able to. my max dose is 2 per day and NEVER any more....though i always want to take more. i hope to kick this once and for all eventually...and i'm at a level now where cold turkey shouldn't cause any problems....but it's that final leap thats so hard to do and nearly impossible to sustain even when you DO do it. but it needs to be done...because don't you all ever just get tired of ALWAYS wanting to get higher and always worrying about if you run out and if your doctor denies your refills or if you're going to be able to sneak away at a party and take your pill.......don't you ever just get tired of being owned by a drug? of course i'm not alone in feeling this way, so it's a stupid question to ask......but it really feels like just the life style of being an addict has aged me 20 years over my real age. i truly despise the doctor who ever introduced me to this hell......but part of beating addiction i think is letting go of the past. to be totally honest, writing this probably isn't healthy while i'm trying to quit. it really just makes me want to take a whole handful right now. but how on earth would it be fair for me, and you all too, to experience such hell with this drug and not share the warning with others who could easily fall into the same trap? because truly....there are doctors who think it isn't even addicting......they NEVER even warn patients that it's severely addicting...but it is. i mean everyone knows what an opiate is.... opiate = addicting......so you're more careful when you take them, just because you know you could potentially get addicted. with this drug, most people don't even know how to spell barbiturate or say butalbital.....so there's no way they'd understand the risk of the drug. barbs are dead drugs....they simply aren't used anymore....so society doesn't remember the damage they can do.

[my_mayberry]

i should correct myself.....i could go months without a real difficult urge for the drug.....though i still did think about it. i would be lying if i tried to pretend you can get rid of the thoughts completely. i guess it's not a matter of trying to get rid of them, but rather dealing with them in a healthy way.

[sharzi]

I hear you my-mayberry .. the urges to just take that one pill are so bad sometimes.  And the denial that I will take just one..or two (enough to just feel it) and then stop is incredible.  I know damn well I won't stop at one pill or one perscription.. instead what happens is I end up so depressed I want to die.  Thats where fioricet leads me -- to complete dispare.  Im so tired of letting that drug rule my life!  Thank God for the miracle of being sober today.

You know may-berry .. you had 10 years and thats incrediable!  If you could do it before.. you can do it again.  You have the desire to find a healthy way..and I think you are going to do it.  

Thank you for you response vicki .. and Jan {{HUGS)) I hope you are doing well.  Let me know how you guys are doing.  It very very hard in the beginning.. but it does get ALOT better!!  Hang in there!

[Jan737]

Is depression part of the w/d.  I have been waking up at three in the morning the last three days and I am so depressed.  Is that all part of the drug from hell revenge?

[vicki595]

Hi Jan~~

Yes,depression CAN be part of stopping this drug.  But,sometimes,there has been an underlying depression for a long time that was only masked by the effects of the drug.

You may be experiencing that "certain sadness" that comes with leaving the drug behind.  Get taking all the vitamins recommended.  You may be sad but not depressed.  Give it two weeks.  If you're not feeling better or getting worse you may need to talk to your Dr. about treatment.

I've been through this.  It turns out I was self medicating for years to feel better when,in fact,I was depressed.  Who knew???   I could have avoided a lot of heartache and withdrawal but I never really "felt" depressed.  The Fioricet over rode it for years!!


Anyway...keep a daily journal of how you're feeling for two weeks. You'll find some answers there.   I really think that this is,for you,part of the w/d process and that you're missing your friend.

It gets better.  Today is 70 days for me and I feel good and I'm sleeping fine(except for "those" dreams).

Love~~Vicki

[Jan737]

Congratulations on your 70 days. That is awesome.  You are truly an inspiration.  

I think you may have hit the nail on the head about the depression.  I think it has over ridden losing my mom.  I have started the vitamins but as of now can't tell any difference.  I believe your earlier statement about not feeling normal until you are off of them is the gospel truth.  I think that this drug masks a lot of things.  

Thank you for your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jan

[Jan737]

Vicki:

Can I taper these any closer than every 7 days without having seizures?

Thank you,

Jan

[vicki595]

Jan~  So sorry.  I missed your post here,for some reason.  Remind me again of how many you're taking per day now.

I'll be around here for a bit~

Vicki  xo

[Fen871]

To any one that reads this that responded to fiorcet hand in there I know the effects of coming off of this drug. You have to come off very slow evey by just a half. It takes a long time to come back to normal take your vitamins and excerise as much as you can. The best of luck to all!!!

[Jan737]

I had just had my first day of 6 about ten days ago.  My daughter (which keeps the pills at her office) got sick and brought them home with her.  She had the flu and so I had myself a five day fioricet party.  You warned me.  The most I took in the five days was 10 a day but I feel like crap.  Vicki, I don't even want them until I take the first one of a morning.  I feel like I could go without them if I never took one but I can't do that.  I did go to see a psychiatrist on the 10th and I might have well flushed my money down the toilet.  He kept talking about being addicted to an opiate.  I finally said, I'm sorry but what I am taking is a barbiturate.  He just stared at me like I was nuts.  He sent me home with zyprexa.  I told him I wasn't a schizophrenic, I was a barbiturate addict.  I am kind of beginning to feel like giving up.  It seems like no doctor in this state knows what fioricet is or wants to help.  You are the only one that has offered sound advice, that is why I wanted to find out if I could taper them faster and to ask you how far back I set myself with the pill party I had.

Jan

[sweatinit]

Jan,

I am so sorry you're struggling. Vicki is a godsend for sure and I know that she can help you through. If there is anything I can do, please PM me. I am a good listener. I am sorry I cant lend you advice becasue I am so new at the tapering/clean thing, but what I can offer you is my ear. Hang in there and know that you'll get to the place you need to be.

Kathy

[vicki595]

Oh boy...does that sound familiar to me.  I'm so sorry Jan;sorry this happened to you. It's one of the pitfalls...  
Now,I still can't tell where you're at TODAY.How many have you taken today and yesterday. The info will help me. Also,how many do have left?
You know why you feel like crap.  Too much Tylenol and you had been tapering and then just shocked you body with that load of butabiltal.
So get back to me. I'll keep my computer on so I can watch for your post Okay?

Vicki  xo

[Jan737]

Yesterday I had 10, today I have had 6.  I have begun to feel better this afternoon but a little on the nervous side.  The doctor wrote me a prn script which will expire on Tuesday, I thought it expired in April, anyway, My daughter has 58 in her possession and then I can get my refill this Friday and that is it.

ADVICE?????????????????????????????HELP???????????????????????

Thank you!

[Jan737]

Thank you for your post.  I am so mad at myself.  I was so proud of the accomplishments that I had made and was beginning to feel so good and then...I don't know what happened.  Oh I do know, I was seduced by this drug and thought I could handle it.  I was wrong.  I appreciate everyones support.  I am finding it hard to believe this nightmare will ever end.

How are you doing?

Jan

[Jan737]

Vicki:

I am sorry I forgot to put that the refill on Friday will be for 90 so I have 148.

jan

[vicki595]

Okay...got it.    Time to get tough here...

Cancel that refill for Friday.  I mean it Jan!  You don't need it and it's hard enough without THAT hanging in your head.

You've had 6 today. NO MORE. 6 is the max anyway. You're just hurting your self.

Tomorrow (wednesday) take only 5 per day until Feb. 28. That's 5 days.
Then drop to 4 per day for four days. Then 3 per day for three days.
Then 2 per day for two days.
Then 1 per day for  four days.
Break the 1 tab in half those last four days if you have to.
Stick to this. It's a total of 58 pills so no need for the refill.


You should jump from this without any problem. It's exactly what I would do and have done. So,in the absence of a doctor who can help you, this is what I can suggest.

But,you have to make a concerted effort Jan. I know it's hard...it will always be there. It just gets less and less.

You said the mornings are the most difficult.  I had the same problem. Woke up,felt crappy so took 2 just to get out of bed.  I changed that routine.  Now, I just GET UP and don't think. I make the coffee mmmm. Then I take all my vitamins right away along with excedrin and sudafed because I'm usually headachey.  I wash it down with a ton of water.  It can satisfy that pill taking routine in the am.  It works for me.  

I still have thoughts but no cravings. You just have to get off that "train of no return".

Let me know how this sounds. I think it's a good taper for you.  I wish you had a good doctor though.  Keep looking in the meantime okay?

All the best~

Vicki
. You'll end up sicker than you can imagine.

[Jan737]

Sounds fantastic to me but what did you mean by you'll end up sicker than you can imagine.  Did you mean after I quit taking them?  I am trying to revamp my routine and not take them in the am and I was doing good until I feel off the train.  I am going to do exactly as you suggested and I am not going to get the refill and when it expires then I won't have the option of getting more hanging over my head.  I am looking for a new doctor and I don't think I will have a problem finding one after I am off of these.  

Thank you so much.  How are you doing?

[vicki595]

Sorry...that statement was misplaced.  It should have said:...get off that "train of no return",you'll end up sicker than you can imagine.

Okay...Good girl!  Cancel the refill...great!!!  You'll feel empowered...

I hope this works for you Jan...I just hate to see anyone struggling with this.  It's a bear but it can be stopped!

I'm doing great. I have my moments but they're fleeting now...Tomorrow is 90 days for me.  I never thought I'd live to say that...seriously.

Vicki  xo

[sweatinit]

Hello Ladies,
Things are going well for me and I am on my taper as planned. Thank God. I flushed all of the remaining pls which i thought would be extraordinarily difficult, but just idid it w/o thought. it actully felt good. I have NEVER done that before. I also decied to put the tabs in a envelope for each day so that I woulnt be as tempted to take more then planned.
I had a headache today and my legs are a little crampy. Just took some vitamins and restful leg. Im going to drink sme club soda before bed.
Mentally I am ready to do this. More than i have ever been. Tomorrow I am going to attend my first meeting. Dont know if its for me, but I am going to give it a try.
Jan, i know what you're feeling and once you get through being pee oed, you'll gain the strength. Jump back on and let's fight this together.
Vicki, You have been the biggest blessing to me! Cograts on 90 girlfriend! I look forward to the day when Jan and I can say the same.
Much love to you both! Kathy

[vicki595]

Jan~  How is it going so far this morning?

V.  xo

[alliea]

Am I in the right spot/or can someone guide me to the right spot for fioricet addiction and withdrawal support?
I know I cannot go off cold turkey, I dread the withdrawal symptoms, but I really want to get off it.

I've been taking it since 1995, and have been up to 12-16 or so a day for the last 4 or 5 years now.

I did go off for about 8 months around 2001 per my doctor, but the tension in my neck was never relieved by physical therapy (all kinds), massage, or anything else.

I just felt better on it, so I told my doctor that and he agreed to 6 a day, but when I moved, I got a new doc who only gives me 100 per month so I have been getting the remainder, via online scripts for the past 4 or 5 yrs..

I have obviously increased from the 4-6 a day up to 12-16 a day over the years but I've been holding steady at this dose for some time.

Migraines run in my family, I have them the same frequency now as I did before I even heard of Fioricet so I'm 90% sure I'm not getting rebound headaches, and I can only get so many Imitrex per month through my insurance.

They seem to work for me but I don't want to take them anymore, and I know and can admit I'm going to make up any excuse I can to say I need to stay on them.

I just went and took 2 just to write this. I know that is not a good sign.
Should I even try right now to taper? I want to but I am scared as xxxx.

Thank you in advance.

[vicki595]

To:Alliea~~

Can I suggest you post a question/comment on your own thread?  You can start your own by going back to the forum page and clicking on the green,post a question button to the left.  You'll get more responses that way.

In the meantime,read this thread again. Decide if really want to stop. You know you have to taper and it takes time and effort.

Vicki

[Jan737]

Alliea:

Vicki is absolutely right, you have to want to get off of them.  It is not easy but this is the devil's drug and it will destroy you.  We are here for you and you can do it if you want to.

jan

[alliea]

thank you SO much for taking the time to respond! =)
I have talked to my friend, only he and my BF know.

I think my friend will be a good support along with this forum. I will post where you suggested Vicki..

I also like the tracker I found on this site, as I am very visual and "seeing" how much I take per day (even though I only take 12 out of the bottle per day) will greatly help.

It's embarrassing and it helps to know I'm not the only one and that a lot of you have kicked it.. It gives me inspiration.
Thank you again so much.

[sweatinit]

Hi Welcome! I am a fellow F-cet user too :). Am tapering with my last day on Sunday. I will offer as much support to you as I can. This is very doable, but hard. Stay plugged in here and it will help us to be successful! xxoo

[belfast]

My mum was addiicted to these durgs  all my life she died in her sleep when I was 17yrs I am now 49yrs and I will never forget finding her.She took way over the normal dose.forgot and took another I think.These are the hardest drugs to come off ,even over xanax norco etc.,My mum would have terrible sizures,she smelt something and then no matter were, fall right back on her head. My 12yr old sister had to learn to put her on her side and put something in her mouth to stop her biting her toung off.she tryed to get help but in those days and living in Ireland it was hard she knew all the chemists /pharmasists even used to work for one.  There are much more treatments now.I can even remember emptying out the medicine capsules and putting them back together. She got more! Get HELP.If 1 dr cant help go to another and another. I would not want any one to find their mum or dad  dead beside their husband or wife .I was bringing them some tea and toast in bed .Its always a photograph in my head.

[worried878]

I am sorry that u found ur mom like that...it must be a hard thing to live with everyday...just wanted to say that cos I just can not imagine finding my mom like that

[belfast]

Thank you for comment .Its funny how you begin to live it,but you never forget,even so many years later.Believe it or not there was alot substance abuse in N Ireland during the troubles.People dont always think of the things people had to live with. I am thinking of writing a book about it.Just writing this has stirred up many memories.I was a prodestant and and married a catholic,alot of my reletives did not come to my wedding.I am well out it now I live in san diego ca. I could tell so many stories.But that just the Irish in me.I do know what alot of people are going through I am 2 mounths off 9 norco a day.Feeling better every day.The people on this site are such nice kind people.