For those who do not know, Carlieridofboy is my daughter. I have spent the past 7 weeks with her, helping her detox, and attempting to love her through the desperate position that she has created for herself. She posted an interesting topic a few days back regarding mental withdrawal. I debated for several days about whether I should comment to it or not. I didn't want to chase her away from this forum, and yet, I knew that she was blowing smoke up your rear-ends.
We finally had a confrontation today, as she returned to my home after two days of being MIA, and obviously under the influence. And, she has opted to continue her addicted life. I say "opted" because I do feel that it's a choice. Carlieridofboy had every opportunity to stay clean at my home. She just doesn't want to. She wants that high. She wants her user boyfriend. She wants to strip and use and take advantage of the family who loves her so desperately.
So, she packed up what she could fit in a few black trash bags, and off she went. And here I sit, praying to GOD that somehow, she will survive herself.
My response to her latest post on mental withdrawal.....
Here are the facts... She did NOT lose her job. She couldn't work because she was detoxing and too sick. She had the opportunity to talk to her step dad about going back to work but opted not to. To this day, she is still on the payroll and the company insurance. Her step dad did NOT tell everyone about her addiction. He told a few family members because she was living in HIS house detoxing, and he was attempting to keep them away and give her some space. Her co-workers already figured out that she was on something, because believe it or not, people who are not using can certainly tell when someone is ****ed up. And yes, she DID "snatch" money from the company. But since she MEANT to put it back, I guess it's not considered stealing????
Why do addicts lie??
Does she truly want advice on whether to strip or not? No, she does not. She is already doing it and her "cover" is this message board.
Why do addicts lie??
Within days of going back to her choice of work, she began using again. Or at least her boyfriend text messaged her that he would get her a "bag"... and "when are you bringing my bag??" How would I know this? Because she continues to have use of the cell phone that her step father provided as an employee (and I am privy to the records).
Why do addicts lie??
I HUGELY love my daughter. But I will not be an enabler. And I think if there is one thing that every addict needs to hear, it's the freakin' TRUTH. I know, I know... no addict wants to be faced with an ultimatum. They just want the people who love them to keep loving them, and nevermind the damage they are doing to themselves and the rest of their family.
Well Carlieridofboy, you would have been miles ahead by being honest, and by really being "rid of boy". Instead, you post nonsense so you can get feedback that makes you feel entitled to doing what you're doing.
Why do addicts lie??
I so wanted to help my daughter. And now I find that there is absolutely nothing that I can do. And my heart is broken. I pray that she survives... the drug use, the controlling boyfriend, the sexual perverts who are feeding their own sick addictions.... I pray that her baby boy survives the mother who injects herself with drugs and stays up all night to entertain men with her body. I will pray for them both - every day of my life. But I will NOT ENABLE.
When I first came to this message board, I got some wonderful advice from lots of folks on how to get my daughter thru her detox. Several of you literally held me up in my deepest despair. I thank you again for that. I'm just not sure that there's any place on this message board for me now... but before I leave, I just wanted to clarify what the REAL story is... and to ask just one more time....
Oh my goodness. You have so been on my mind. I did not see her post.
Addicts lie because they are addicts. I don't know how else to say it. My heart breaks for you because I know what you have put into this. I know how you have been there for her.
I remember I kept edging you to get her into rehab. Because of her drug of choice, it is near impossible for her to stay clean without professional help. There is more to it than just the drug itself.
You can still be there for her Di, but she has to find her own way. I pray she makes it back. One thing I will say.....getting clean is going to mess with her getting high from now on. Simple as that sounds, it is the truth. It may be that she will come back sooner than you think.
I think you are doing the right thing by not enabling her. All that will do is keep her using longer..you know that. When she comes around, tell her that you will help her only if she goes into rehab. that may wake her up.
I also mentioned aftercare to you, on more than one occassion. This is why I stressed it.
Again, my heart is heavy right now when I saw this message. Please stick around and talk....scream....cry..vent..whatever you need. You know you will find good support here from caring people.
My goodness, I read your post and I literally have no words to make you feel better nor can I relate to your situation, but I hope that she soon realizes what she's doing, I relate this to my cousin who is 15, and how protective I am of her, and Carlier being your daughter I know it's tough, but IBKleen, and others are filled with information, they are open books and happy to help out wherever needed. DiEvano, you and yours will be in my thoughts, and please post again, if there's anything you want us to research, email, anything short of flying out there we're happy to help you out. Much love, Ba
I"ve been an addict all my life and for the past 7 years have been in a program where I hear storys like yours on a daily basis. Your reaction( your post) and your decisions as to what your going to do is what you should do. Addicts lie because there is no way to live an honest life when it literally revolves around games,manipulation,and alot of lies. Lies about the addiction,money,promises to stop,you name it.You cant make the decision for her to change but you wouldnt give her a gun to continue robbing banks either. I believe the hardest thing for a loved one to do is stop enabling but how would you feel if you bought the drugs that killed her or put her in jail. If we believe that drugs end in jail institutions or DEATH then its really a form of assisted suicide. I hate being harsh but you sound pass the point of just wanting advice and understanding and you"ve certainly been lied to enough already. You have hard decisions to make but you sound like your making the right ones. Never stop encouraging her to seek help but make sure shes absolutely aware of your feelings and that you"ll always be there should she choose recovery,,,gl
I'm sorry it's not working out. Why do addicts lie (more than most...?)
I suppose it's a due to a personal conflict. There's an image of who we want to be, and what we really are. They lie because they aren't happy or satisfied with what they are/ are becoming.
The lies are a statement of intent. Intent that they WANT to be a good person. But they're doing bad things and thus try to convince all (including themselves) that their doing the right thing is a possibility.
Or...they're just doing it because they could care less about being a good person, and are just telling others whatever they want to hear to get what they want from them.
"she has opted to continue her addicted life. I say "opted" because I do feel that it's a choice. Carlieridofboy had every opportunity to stay clean at my home. She just doesn't want to. She wants that high."
I'd have to disagree with you on that point.
From my perspective there wasn't a whole lot of choice about addiction. It was a thing that happened to me, not something I chose. By the time I figured out that I might be in a little danger, it was way too late - I was already in HUGE danger. I thought my toes were just skimming the water, but I was in way over.
It's very difficult to understand the call of addiction unless you've been subject to it. I sometimes liken it to the call of the Sirens in Homer's Odyssey: "First you will come to the Sirens who enchant all who come near them. If any one unwarily draws in too close and hears the singing of the Sirens, his wife and children will never welcome him home again, for they sit in a green field and warble him to death with the sweetness of their song. There is a great heap of dead men's bones lying all around, with the flesh still rotting off them. Therefore pass these Sirens by, and stop your men's ears with wax that none of them may hear."
I had to have someone drag me away and keep me away for long enough for my mind to heal. Perhaps you feel that 7 weeks should have been long enough - that it she went back after 7 weeks it was her choice, made with a sober mind. That is not my experience.
There is no doubt in my mind that I would be dead now if I had left my last rehab after 7 weeks. I was there just over 17 weeks and it was still tough when I left that safe place and hit the real world again. I *might* have made it after 13 weeks, but no sooner. At 13 weeks, or about 90 days, I became intensely aware of a dramatic shift in my thinking . . . in the way I was a part of the world . . . in how I perceived EVERYTHING. I can't really explain this . . . it was almost as if I was going along doing whatever I was doing and the next I realized that I had just woken up, that I had only been dreaming that I was engaged in normal life (to the extent life is normal in long-term rehab anyway). That's not quite right, but it gives a flavor of the difference.
I will never forget the moment I became aware of it - I was sitting on the porch swing at Drayton House and suddenly I it hit me like a ton of bricks: "Oh my God, THIS is how I need to be if I want to stay clean!!" I wish I could explain exactly what "THIS" was . . . it's like that was the first moment of full mental operation outside the grip of my addiction. It was like up until that moment I had been just pretending to be engaged in Recovery, but I didn't know I was pretending I thought it was real . . . and then suddenly it WAS real and I could only then see the charade for what it was.
Whatever it was, it was in keeping with a good article I read many months later in Time, which at one point noteed the apparent 90-day reset that seems to occur in the brain: "One important discovery: evidence is building to support the 90-day rehabilitation model, which was stumbled upon by AA (new members are advised to attend a meeting a day for the first 90 days) and is the duration of a typical stint in a drug-treatment program. It turns out that this is just about how long it takes for the brain to reset itself and shake off the immediate influence of a drug."
My experience tells me that until that reset happens, every addict is in danger of relapse no matter how bad they want it. The deeper the underlying addiction, the greater the danger. Shooting H generally leads to a deep addiction quickly.
If it was one of my four kids, I would do exactly what my wife did for me when I was in the grips of something way bigger than me: She kicked me out of the house, turned me over to God, but made arrangements for me to go to rehab "for as long as it takes."
Many people, including my mom and my brother, told her she was wasting her time "unless he really wants it." I really didn't want it. Quite frankly, I knew that I was beyond hope, that I was going to die in the near term, and I simply wanted to keep doing my stuff without anyone bothering me until that happened. I am now very grateful that my wife's response was: "he doesn't have the mental or emotional capacity at this point to know what he wants! He's desperately sick - he needs help."
At 7 weeks an H user is still covered with gas in a world full of lit matches. They have to be kept in a safe place.
I will sign off her with my favorite Recovery passage from the Bible, which is Psalm 107:17-20:
Some became fools through their rebellious ways
and suffered affliction because of their iniquities.
They loathed all food
and drew near the gates of death.
Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble,
and he saved them from their distress.
He sent forth his word and healed them;
he rescued them from the grave.
i DO know how you feel sweetie...been there, done that...many times over.
i wish i had the magic words to make everything all right...but i'm still searching for those myself.
as strange as this may sound...whenever one of my boys would relapse...it was like they just spit in my face. ya know what i mean? how could they do this to ME? I am their mother...I gave them life...I have stood by them...I nursed them back to health while trying to get sober...I spent a ton of time and money...I invested every emotion i had into them. and what did they do? they basically just spit in my face...saying f*ck you in so many words (or actions). how dare them do this to ME...dont they love me enough...dont they appreciate me...dont they respect me enough??? why...why...why? who gave THEM the right to destroy the life that I gave them?
it took me many years to figure out that it had nothing to do with me. it was addiction at its best...or should i say worst. do they make that decision to use again? sure they do...but it is your daughter, the addict, that is doing the thinking. one thing i have found through the years...is that an addict HAS to learn to live clean and sober. all the things that made her use in the past...everything that she has tried to hide from...they are still there. an addict has to learn a new way of coping with these things...and unless they do this, there will always be a "reason" to use again.
i am so sorry that your daughter has disappointed you and made you feel that your efforts were a waste of time...been there. just make sure that she knows that your door is always open...your arms are always outstretched...your heart is reaching out to her...BUT that when she walks through that door...you will support her recovery and not her addiction.
Thank you for your comments, your concern, your prayers, and especially for your HONESTY!!
I will never lock the door on my daughter's recovery. I just can't continue to enable her. And I can't knowingly allow her 6 year old child to get caught up in her lifestyle. So for now, I've made sure that he's safe with his father, and offered to help out however I can. There's a part of me that feels like a "fink" in as much as telling the dad what's going on. But how much worse I would feel if anything happened to my grandson!! I can't bear to imagine...!
I "get" what you're all telling me. And Savas -- your answer to my question was so right-on that I actually figured out about a half dozen other questions just reading it!! Thanks :)
So, can anyone tell me where I go from here? She no longer has a cell phone so I can't contact her. I have no idea of where she's staying. I do know what club she's working at, but doubt it would be smart for me to go there....
Do I just do nothing but pray and hope that she contacts me and wants help again??
I don't know where you will go from here, but I can say that your post has re-inforced my own decision not to tell my own parents. God help them if they tried to take away my girls from me. My father accused my husband and I of "being on meth"... We wern't, but we were taking prescriptions and I have/ had brain shearing that caused short-term memory loss. Due to the combo of both I guess it must have exhibited behavior similiar to one taking meth. My father works at a women's prison and he would constantly tell me that he'd "reserve a bottom bunk for me"... I offered time and again for him to go to my docs to "get" my diagnosis. He refused. so, I moved...
I don't know if I was a raging addict before I moved, or if I was still legitimatily "in pain"- regardless, had my dad taken a different tactic to approaching me, one that 'fit' my personality, and treated me with that "unconditional love" that parents are suppose to have for thier children, maybe I wouldn't have moved. Maybe if i hadn't "run-away" from my dad's insults I might have recognized sooner that I was addicted. Maybe- all this is is pure conjecture..
I do know that when my parents placed the welfare of their grandchildren above the needs of their daughter, I became resentful and for a time refused to even speak with them, let alone allow them to see thier grandchildren. Why can't parents do both? why can't parents recognize that their child has a problem and needs their love and support, that it might mean "relapse", but that it doesn't mean I am a bad person? Why can't an addict (trying to recover) be a good parent? I know that I did a great many physical feats "on Lortab" with my kids, playing, that I couldn't have done while recovering after my injury that started MY habit...
Oh, and my Mom isn't much better with Dad sputtering all that **** in her head- if I confide in mom and dad discovers, it's a fight for mom and dad because he accuses us girls (mom, sis and I) of "playing" sororiety...
I will close by saying I am sorry, Di, for your loss, it sounds like you are busy now greiving the loss of your daughter to her tortured hell. I wish you could celebrate the fact that 'relapse' is part of some people's recovery.
I left you a post on the message she left. I have your daughter in my friend's list as her drug of cjioce is also mine. Please have a look. It dosn't answer all you want to no. Only she can do that. But you may get a herion addict's view.
I'm dissapointed, Why tell use she's clean, She could still post & tell use she'z using & trying. But to lie to feel better sound's life she hasn't been to hell yet. Only then will she truly want out. As for the boyfreind well. My fella used herion aswell we've beeen together 13 year's. But alot stay together coz of the hadbit. It's just erasyer to say with an addict when you are 1
I hope & pray for YOU. take care nat xx
I really am not taking her son away from her. I just want to ensure his safety. The difference is, my daughter is living the life of a junkie. She has no home. She's working at a strip club all night. And she has a six year old son who is at the mercy of whoever she chooses to leave him with. I'm not saying she isn't a loving mother... she adores her son. She isn't making good choices. She's a heroin addict and involved with some pretty shady people. I know this because she told me a lot of things during those few wonderful weeks when she was truly clean. I would do the same for a child I didn't even know... because that's my responsibility as a human being. And here we're talking about my grandson... I couldn't possibly sit by and do nothing.
I understand the possibility of relapse. I simply can not deal with a liar. How am I to help my daughter when she won't even speak the truth?? How can I trust her in my home when deception is part of her game plan??
Unconditional love does not mean standing by idly, doing nothing. I will love her forever. I will help her whenever she is willing to accept my help. But I will not enable her to continue this lifestyle. And if that's being a poor parent, then so be it.
I understand your pain as well Uvlvrebel. It must be hell to find yourself estranged from the people who love you the most. I hold you and your parents in my prayers.
First, I want to be clear: I never stated that you were taking away her child, merely got me to thinking about my own parents and the fact that I would never allow them to take mine away. your second paragraph is interesting because your first two sentences seem to contraindicate: "I understand the possibility of relapse. I simply cannot deal with a liar." Another great thing about this forum is its ability to open my eyes to things i never considered before so that i now might be ahead of the game should my children need me for something similar in magnitude to addiction and/or relapse. I think that my girls would lie to me if they thought they would dissapoint me.
If my parents had not shown me with thier words how much they were dissapointed in me for the "choices" I have made AND been such a hypocrite about it since the choices I made did produce the two humans they hold most dear in the world. Gosh did they forget that I made a choice to get pregnant, and carry a baby to term? They see the world through their "fuzzy" rose colored glasses and it appears black and white. I don't know what unconditional love means for anyone other than myself. I know the effects of MY parents "unconditional love" drove me away. They also did not want to sit idly by and watch their grandbabies grow up in a "meth house" (which was not true). But, if they could not handle that idea, and believed that the best course of action was to show us "tough-love" threaten to take our children away, and have us simply acquiesce... ****BREAK.****
Di, you are different from my parents, and I am not the same as your daughter. But I only hope that my perspective helps in some measure- that is all i am attempting to do. I majored in English and Linguistics, I love to write, I want to help, and I want to receive help to combat my own demons. I don't want to incite a riot between mother and daughter, but you placed yourself out here and in doing so asked for others' opinions. Just be careful, what you "read betwen the lines" might just be YOU, and not intended by me. (E.g. Freudian slip?). I identified with your post because it seemed to parrallel my own parent struggle, so I offered up- that's all. I really don't know what stripping has to do with it, I know and knew a good many women/ girls who had been strippers and they were happy with it, no drugs involved. It was just good money and it made them feel good. I don't know where you live, but the laws in the state I grew up in did not allow any touching. Stripping was probably safer than a lot of dates, and it was what my friends WANTED TO DO. Who was I to condemn their choice?
Deception is a dangerous game for a child to play with their parents. I was a very deceitful child, and my mother would always curse the heavens that i would be "blessed with a daughter worse than myself". I always thought she just never "got" me. I do have a daughter now who seems to be a "mini-me". I find humor in it. But, I feel, that because of the inherrent distrust, my mother has a difficult time listening to what I say without trying to break it apart for some NEED to find the LIE within. It is kinda sad and I hope never to do the same to "mini-me". The cycle has to be broken somewhere.
I do know that for the past 2 years or so I felt that "if I were to die", I would do so KNOWING my parents do NOT love me. I actually told my mom this last time we talked, only I stated, "knowing my dad did not love me". She told me, it's not true. She said that he talks about me everyday and often cries. I was really taken aback, and angry- "why doesn't he tell me", I thought.
Let me preface this next part by stating, the following is a WISHLIST only (and an unreasonable one at that, to be sure):
You posed an interesting question that really made me think, "How can I trust her in my home when deception is part of her game plan??" It would be hard, no doubt. I wish (if my mom was as concerned as you are) that she would come to my house and help me. Or if that was not possible, that we rent a home and then she could help me, stand by me and my girls, help see me through this thing, and tell me everyday, "I love you, I DON'T know what you're going through, but please know that I am here to pick up the slack for you with the girls because I know that you would do the same for me." I would say, "Mom, you are right, I would do the same for you, thanks for telling me that. I felt guilty for imposing. I don't know up from down right now and can only pray that I don't dissapont you again." Then, mom again, "you don't dissapoint me, all roads eventually lead to the same place, you are struggling, I'm here to help, that's what mom's do, (my name), don't you know that I would go to hell and back for you? I love you without boundaries. nothing will ever change that- my love for you is without remorse or regret. It is unwavering and undieing. No one will ever come between us and I promise never to place another soul above you, equal to, but not above."
PS. I never even alluded to the fact that you were a poor parent.
We too have a daughter who is an addict. Recently, we discovered she is an IV user - because she is now losing three fingers to a bad injection.
What hurts is we were advocating like crazy to help her with the "cover up condition" she said that caused her fingers to die. And the fact that she told three different hospital physicians that we couldn't be contacted because we are "mentally ill and alcoholics." The truth is we are neither. The truth is we would have informed the doctors what drugs we already knew she was addicted to and she shouldn't be getting prescriptions to.
What a drag and a heartbreak it is to love an addict.
My daughter is in a crisis center, she tried to kill herself, she keeps calling me and leaving me abusive messages, saying its all my fault, she lies all the time. she is leaving next week to go back to her boyfriend. She denies using.
Whenever i talk to her she will press my buttons, and we will argue, any advice, I have tried everything. I enabled her for 10 years.
Hi...this would be a great new topic and Im sure you'd get a ton of responses if you post a new thread. This thread is really old so a lot of people will overlook it AND most of the original posters aren't here anymore (but some are)
But to answer your question of "any advice"...I think your next step is stopping communication. I mean...if she is doing all those things and your enabling her...you may write her a letter and just tell her you cant be in her life while shes using. Support her recovery...when she finds it...but dont try to find it for her as she will just continue to run game. She has to find it on her own.
Wow, I have been lied to so much, I will never know what the truth is from minute to minute. Addicts are so adept at this that they need to give lessons to captive terrorists. I currently don't have the funds to place my son in a rehab
program, found a program that would not require some live in situation, that he would flee regardless, the minute anyone turned his or her back, but don't even have the funds for that. Complicated at best, in the last week I think he has put about ten years on both of our lives. I no longer respond to, "I am praying for you!" Yes, prayers are nice, but it's pretty much lip service to my ears right now. The parents of addicts have to play a cover up game as well. If I hear one more time, how did he get on this drug, my God, I will seriously run screaming. I called a doctor's office this week, my son's
personal doctor, and the nurse did not know what opiates were. Do not get me started talking about Kaiser insurance either. Do I think rehab would work for my son or anyone else's son or daughter, not sure. We need to march on Washington, parents unite!
Your helpless. Cold hard truth is you gotta let him go. He'll get clean if he has had enough. Maybe he will never get clean. Maybe he will get clean tomorrow. Forget doctors, forget trying to put him in rehab, don't help him at all. Don't waste your time trying to change him. When my Mom finally let me go, kicked me out, and wouldn't talk to me it became extremely difficult to keep my heroin addiction going and still live a somewhat decent existence. Now, I didn't get clean but I stopped the crazy daily run of heroin. Opiate addicts spend a lot of money to feed the habit. If the supply of money runs out, than the addiction is harder to manage. Thus making recovery seem a little more appealing. If the addiction is easy to manage, why stop
I need help my girlfriend recently confessed to using heroin after we dated for a year it hurt but I assumed it. Now she is living back with her mom and is showing 360 attitude changes and two nights ago she sent a nude pic and I saw my worst fear appeared to be like four bruises on her inner elbow am I keep trying to convince myself it not that and she got blood drawn 2 days ago cause all of a sudden she came down with pneumonia weird but I've been doing rearch and I found that its common for people who do heroin I'm so upset and lost what can I do??? Please help me I'm losing my mind cause I have never loved a woman like I do it scares me everyone says forget her my heart won't walk away! I really need advice thanks Ryan
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