Well guys/girls I have made a decision (a week or so ago) to under go rapid detox, not any of the shady out patient clinic ones but the real deal Waismann Institute. I'm leaving at the end of the month to head out to california, appointment is on March 29th. 23-27 pecs a day and 4-6 Oxys a day will do this too you. I have a job that at 24 yrs old pays 70K, close to 80K with over time and the pay only goes up from here (Max out at 117K when i'm 28yr old). I have been wasting this pay on buying what I need to get by, my script of 180 Perc 10s every 16days and 60 40mg Oxys hasn't even been enough....sad I know. Anyways just wanted to up date those who have read my "Need Help badly" post...I will def. keep everyone posted on the days leading up to and the actually "surgery" should be rather interesting. If anyone has any questions of what it is feel free to ask or check out my last post in that thread. Later peoples.....
Trust me tray this is costing me $21,000...I have don't more research on this then I did any of my time in HS and any of my 4yrs in college.There are numerous rapid detox programs across the country but none besides the Waismann institute is preform in ICU (INTENSIVE CARE UNIT) matter of fact all others are done in an out patient manner being preformed in a clinic rather then a hospital with the patients being released the same day.
With the Waismann Institute the first day you are run through numerous assessments (Blood, EKG, Lung, Liver and others) based on these assessments a "personalized" detoxification is designed for the patient. The patient is hooked up to morphine during the first day/night in order to remain comfortable prior to the beginning of the process. Day 2 the process is administered which lasts between 45min-90mins (rapid detox) where the opiates are cleansed from the opiate receptors. When the patient wakes up he is no longer opiate dependent. He/she then spends the next 24-48 hrs in ICU (awake) being monitored for theirs safety. Once the DRs feel that the patients is ready to be released (somewhere within the 24-48 hrs) he/she can go home. The patient is given a RX for a drug that blocks the craving for anywhere from 6-12 months. Once this procedure is done the patient actually can never get "high" from opiated again. The miracle of this procedure is that it takes away the physical dependency. wow that was long winded haha.
Sorry if I sounds like a testimonial but I have done SO much research on this place that I feel like there isn't a question I couldn't answer haha. Also these other rapid detoxes run anywhere between $2000(cheapest)-$6000(most expensive i've found) and the Waismann is a little over $21,000 basically, you get what you pay for and when your talking your life well i'm not going to penny pinch.
What do they do so that you can never get high from opiates again? Now i'll have to do some research on it myself. I can not afford such treatment myself, but now you have sparked my curiosity, lol. I hope this works well for you and please let me know how this works out. Best of luck and God Bless..... Luv, Jacky
Go to Opiates.Com. Not 100% sure exactly what they do that stops a high but was talking to a nurse over the phone about it and this is what she advised me off. Also youtube "Waismann method" there are a few vedios...here i'll put links up here...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmVM69SFXlc copy past that there are 3 parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_aWIVctmfw 2 parts to thathttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL37IUc0BEU&feature=related 3 parts to that
These are some videos about people and their experiences with the Waismann Method. Videos are anywhere from 10-25mins long and show how they got addicted and up to the point of the surgery and when they returned home--Good videos. Its weird, if i would have seen these videos 18months ago, I would have been like "You gotta be kidding me, these people are pathetic" but now I understand EXACTLY what these people re going through.
They give you Revia (naltrexone) after the procedure, which is a longer acting opiate antagonist than the naloxone that you receive during the procedure. It blocks the opiate high. But, there's no guarantees that you "can't" get high. You just simply quit taking it.
The way the Nurse explained it to me over the phone is that because of the blocker you will no longer be able to get high off of any opiates with on the naltrexone because your respecters are being blocked.
Yes, that's true. I took it for a couple of months. The point I was making is that it's not a permanent thing. You take a pill in the morning and you can't get high that day. If you quit taking it..you can get high. Look, I have no problem with detoxing this way. If I had the money, I may have, too. But, unless you get aftercare afterward, you'll end up in the same place. Naltrexone isn't a long term solution. Recovery and aftercare is.
Heres the way I feel...and you may not believe me but I don't feel like i am mentally addicted but only physically. Let me explain...the only time that I really wanna use is 1. When I haven't used long enough that my body starts going through WDs. 2. And this is not as much anymore but if i'm about to go do something for the day, I just want to feel better, chill out and relax. Well the percs or oxys gives my body that feeling so I take them.
Theres no times besides those where I am thinking about using just to use. I feel that therapy or stuff like that is for people who are in bad situations when they break their physical dependancy. For example if your around others who use, or if you've been using for so many years that thats all you know. I can go on and give more examples but i just don't think I am mentally addicted. Again the only reason why I use now is because I fear the withdrawals and use because I begin to feel the withdrawals after 18hrs or so. Maybe i'm just being stupid and naive though....
Glad you are back Boskey.I often wondered how you were doing after you stopped posting.
I remember we all told you to stop before your use got too heavy because it is easier to quit in the early stages.Why did you increase your use so much?
You have a good job and so much to live for and do not need the opiates in your life.
You could take that $21,000 and probably other expenses and invest it wisely and end up just as well off by detoxing yourself like many others have done here.That seems rather expensive for the same results that you can get by yourself with determination and grit.
You have to have this determination and grit with aftercare anyways.
I think we would all like to be put to sleep and wake up with all our problems gone,but this does not happen in real life. for we still have to continue living in the real world.
Good luck in whatever you do ,but there is no quick fix regardless of what you have read or been told.
You are acknowledging some sort of dependency, thats good but i will tell you this, i felt the same way at one point too. I then allowed myself to fully detox and then i found out. I am a stubborn gal, as most of us are and i though if i could get through the physical aspect of coming down i would be homefree. Oh man, was i in for a big surprise, when i realized this entire addiction had really nothing to do with my physical self, but with my mind and my spirit. Now i know its possible for people to never develop and emotional dependency to these drugs, but most of those people wouldn't find themeselves on a site like this either, rather in their doctors office coming off their medications appropriately and moving on. I really do wish you the best on your journey and hope that you will be fair to yourself and give yourself a complete evaluation and get all the care you need physically, emotionally and spiritually, so that you can go on with the life you have looked forward to. Luv, Jacky
k i'm not arguing with anyone I just want to ask a ? what do you feel some signs of being mentally dependent? Like I said the only reasons why I feel like I am only physically dependent is because the times I use is when I start feeling my body tells me I need to use wether it be the on set of chills, sneezing, pain, aches, etc. I never really am sitting around and say I man i just want to use because my mind just tells me too. Don't get me wrong I used to do that just for the hell of it to relax but then it was starting to get expensive ($500 a week) so I stopped using for the reason of simply using to use. So what are some symptoms of mental dependency?
Pharm not to sound like a **** but yes $21,000 is expensive but I have a very well paying job and have invested since I started my career where was 4 yrs ago. I own 3 houses the I rent to local college kids (you wouldn't believe what they pay a month, mortgage on 1 house is 1200 a month, rent is 3,500. and on the other 2 mortgage is 1500 and rent is 4,200) which has made me a pretty penny on top of a awesome salary therefore the money isn't too much of an issue. The Waismann Method cures your physical dependency which is the hardest part for me, esp. with my schedule...meaning i can't afford to miss maybe a months worth of work because i am going through withdrawals. I work a 4 day on 4 day off schedule and with this method I can go through the physical withdrawal with only missing a day or 2 of work.
Hi~ Nice to see you back...I wondered what happened with you,as well.
Well,it sounds like your mind is made up. I'm familiar with this treatment and it does work well to withdraw you and aleviate the horrible withdrawals. BUT,it does nothing for mental cravings. Yes,you are naive if you think they won't creep up on you. So,I strongly suggest you put an aftercare plan in place,be it meetings or therapy. You'll need to do something,I can just tell. You say you've only taken them to avoid withdrawals but in the same sentence you say you take them,also,to chill out and relax(but not so much anymore). That's a concern. You're taking upward of 30 pills a day sooo you don't need much more to chill out! Think about it...many can attest to cravings for many months after detoxing and they can be very difficult to deal with.
Maybe you can call the clinic and ask about this.Also,ask them how many people have seizures during this procedure.
Hey good luck with all that expensive detox .I truely hope that it works for you. I almost did a similar method of detox several years ago.I made a effort and baled out last minute.It would have costed 6000 .Today I a greatful that I never went that route .I believe in old fashion C/T detox its not easy but it has has good reminders of how crappy this addiction can become.Aftercare like Ga said seams to be the best game in town.Good luck and I wish you a happy and sucesful recovery .
The reason you say you used..to relax and chill..are the EXACT reasons we're mentally addicted. Spending 15,000 dollars on drugs from the street is not dependent behavior...it's addictive behavior. I truly hope that you are just dependent...because, I can't call you an addict..only you can. But, I don't want to see you going in blind and loosing 20,000 dollars by thinking this will cure it all.
You have done well financially and with this type of determination and self control you will probably do well with your health.
Your life and health are certainly worth more than the $21000 you are spending and I see that you can afford it and with your determination it will be money well spent.
Just use this rapid detox as a first step to permanent healing and definitely have after care in place.
I wish you the best in your healing and go for it man.Any attempt is better than not doing anything.
Keep posting and keep us informed because we were worried about you when we did not hear from you and we all care for you.
I'm sorry guys/gals re-reading my posts I think I may be coming off as a **** but I kinda feel like i'm being attacked a little bit. I just don't see how I have a mental addiction. The chill out thing was before when the high was stronger. At this point there isn't even much of a high its more of survival day to day and staving off withdrawal. Like I said I really feel like if I didn't go through withdrawal then I would be able to stop them. I have tried many times to go as long a I can without taking them but I alway cave in because of the pain, sweat, restlessness and all, if that wasn't there I know I could do it. Also when you have an endless supply (best friend has sickle cell and gets more then I do but never uses them so he sells them to me, brother has had 2 major back surgeries and has more as well and my friends mom get thems too but doesn't use many as sells them to me. Haha kinda ironic that I call them friends and they are aiding to my addiction) that you can stop the pain whenever you want.
Withdrawal is different for everyone, just outta curiosity what is everyones withdrawal like here? Symptoms? When they kick in? When its the worst and in your opinion what symptom is the worst for you? How long do they last?
Of course we all wish you the best with this. I'm glad you've done your research on the detox method. Perhaps it is time to research addiction with the same ferocity so that your hard earned money is not spent in vain.
Your use has increased substantially, you are taking them to "chill" and avoid wd. You are buying them from the street. You are risking your health and risking that career. It is all on the line Boskey and you are naive to believe this is over after your spa.
NA has a pamphlet entitled "Am I an addict?", perhaps you can find it online. Only you can make that call but it might provide the eye opener that will increase your chances of success with recovery.
Goodluck and Godspeed, we all want it to work out for you.
Just the way things are being said. First off wether people want to believe it or not there is a difference from being them off the street and from people they are close too. Off the street you don't know where they have been or even if they are fake. In my line of work you would be shocked to see a white football shaped pill that says M523 on one side and 10/325 on the other and think its real only to see it test as a fake. Also I understand addiction and I have not said that I wasn't addicted...I repeat I AM ADDICTED. I am not taking them to chill anymore unless your saying "Chill" is to make sure i'm not going thru withdrawal, if thats the case then yes I am.
"An endless supply"...See,that's one of the problems. The pills are all around you and you can't turn them down. That's mental!
What are you going to do after detox? Do you think you'll be able to say no? If you can,that's wonderful but not realistic. I really do wish you well but want you to be aware of the pitfalls. You'll need to cancel all of your refills. Tell your prescribing Dr. you are planning a detox and not to prescribe anymore,inform your friends not to offer ever again. After this,you cannot take pills anymore,ever. If you do,you'll be right back to where you are now.
I don't see anyone attaking you here. Maybe it's just not what you want to hear...
If you don't see where you might have a mental addiction then there's not much more to say. Physical and mental addiction go hand in hand but,perhaps,you are the
exception to the rule.
Boskey hun...we are not here to attack you.We are just being realistic.Detox is only the first step to a drug free life and the shortest step as well.
Most people are over the really difficult detox in 5 to 7 days and then the after care begins.That is the hardest part...maintaining sobriety.
When you chill out is it with other people or by yourself?
There are many ways to chill out and sport and exercise are the best because endorphins are released during exercise.
We wish you success in whatever method you choose because you have so much to live for and so much to lose if unsuccessful.
Sending love and luck your way.
I never said anyone offers them to me and never said that I can't say no. I think theres a big difference in physical and mental addiction. A mental addiction is someone sitting around and doing them just because or having a group around them and doing them because everyone else is doing them. A mental addiction would be having a compulsive urge to use. A Physical addiction would be your body having an urge to use. The reason why I use is because my body has an urge to use or else it will be in pain. I can sit around and my mind isn't wondering how i'm gonna get the pills or when I am gonna take my next dose. The only time I start to think about that is when my body start wondering where the narcotic is. Everyone is different, and addiction is different for everyone as well. i don't believe that just because you have a physical addition that you must have a mental addiction as well.
Hey dude hope your detox works out great for you sounds like you done your research
the only problem I got with it is you feel like shi# for a long time after you detox....
some people get the ''pink cloud'' effect for a month or so but some like me
feel like they got ran over by a truck after detox...I had no energy and I mean no energy it was debilitating couldn't sleep for months and anxiety that was thew the roof ....
today im 142 days clean and its just been over the last 30 or so days that things are starting to get back to normal...detox is the eazy part its what comes after thats the grind...it takes a wile for your brain to reset itself it dosent happen over night you dident become addicted over night so is nave to expect to be better over night...go to the health pages on the right of the screen and read about P.A.W..S you my be suprized by what it says ...I hope for your sake it works out but you have an awful
lot of people telling you it is different then you think its going to be good luck and God bless....Gnarly
I don't mean to attack you..but, I guess I am in a way. You see, you are just like me. I am a pharmaceutical dope fiend. I thought I was better than the heroin addict on the corner because my addiction was justified by prescriptions. The reason I'm hard on you is because I see myself..and I wish to hell I could yell at myself when I was thinking that way. I'll tell you a good way to tell if you're an addict. Go to ONE NA meeting. If you don't relate to anything the people are talking about FEELING...then you may have a point. You have to go in honest and not lie to yourself. Listen for similarities not differences. I bet that you will be astonished at how it will sound like people have been "reading your mail".
You're being naive. Trying to separate mental urges to use with physical ones is just silly. You even stated in one of your posts above that you use when you're going out or something and, "want to feel better, chill out and relax". Heck everyone takes opiates so that they can, " feel better, chill out and relax". We certainly don't take them to feel bad and be tense and nervous.
What the people above are trying so hard to tell you is that the urge to feel better chill out and relax will still be there after detox only the physical wds won't be there. Getting involved in some type of after care will greatly improve your chances of remaining clean.
On a separate subject, mentioning how much money you make and how you feel that you're only physically and not mentally addicted can make you sound fairly full of yourself. The physically vs mentally thing makes it seem like you think you're superior to the weak mentally addicted folk. Many of the people on here are much more experienced and more knowledgeable than you are with opiate addiction. If you would listen a little more rather that talk you'd be better off.
There is a very fine line between between physical and mental addiction and when you are in the midst of addiction, whether you believe it to be physical or mental, that line becomes very blurry. And lest we forget that at your level of using your thought processes are drastically altered than before you were using, so the best thing to do here is to go into this with a completely open mind, wait until you are through detoxing and see how you come out on the other side. Just be prepared for whatever may come and be willing to give whatever it is your all to ensure your recovery. This disease does not discriminate. It does not care how much money you have or make so you may as well leave that right out of it, it doesn't matter. It can help when you are considering treatment options but in the end this is on you, poor, wealthy or anywhere in between. Just keep yourself open to the possabilities so that you are not blindsides should anything emotional occur that you weren't prepared for, this will increase your chances for success tenfold. Best of luck and take care........
I've been reading all this and just wanted to say i wish i would have had soooo many caring people back in (1998 im old) i had rapid detox and it was not to bad BUT its not the BE ALL- END ALL. My disease of addiction like most of us is lifelong, there must be aftercare or you will spend all that money and risk some complications (God Forbid) and just maybe end up like me, in the forum asking for help AGAIN.. That being said if you have any unanswered questions let me know... best of luck to you and i will be thinking of you....wendy
Of course we don't mean to attack. Most of us that became addicted to opiates had the same beliefs about dependance and addiction that you have been espousing. That we are merely dependant and not addicted and that getting through DETOX was where the battle was won.
It is newbie thinking and has led to many of my own relapses. Frankly, I got sick of everyone beating the "aftercare" drum. It started getting old, however relapsing was getting much older.
The only folks that get significant clean time seem to be those that do aftercare.
Cleanmom put it best, at least have the open mind to recognize certain things we have all been warning you about. Be ready to step it up a notch if you have to.
These folks are just trying to look out for you. Many are very knowledgeable about addiction. Those that have spent considerable time here at MH have seen hundreds and thousands of posts. They have seen your story played out, they know the typical outcome for those not willing to adjust their way of thinking.
Nobody here wishes failure on anyone, we all love a good success story. Do what you need to do to create one.
You mentioned in one of your posts that there is a difference buying them off the street and buying them from people close to you. You said the difference is that you know what you are buying is the real deal and not fake. The thing is, that is still a addictive behavior. It doesn't matter who you buy them from. It doesn't matter if you take one that was prescribed to your own mother. It is still illegal so it makes no difference. I have never bought off the street but have gotten pills from two different doctors at once. Does that make me better than say a heroin addict just because I took them for chronic back pain? Not at ALL. A addict is a addict. We are all in this fight together no matter what we use, why we use it, or where we get them from. What I was doing was still illegal and it was also addictive behavior. I could never start my true recovery until I admitted that I was and am a addict. Anytime we go out of our way to get extra pills, take more than prescribed, and deny the fact that we mentally addicted, we have some problems that need to be addressed. I have been through withdrawals on my own more times than I wish to count. Do I wish I could have bypassed the physical pain? You betcha. It's not the physical part that I ever found to be all that bad. It was horrifically painful but I made it through. I've worked 80 hour weeks while withdrawing. I've cared for my young children while withdrawing. All of that was the easy part. What has always got me was not getting the aftercare and leaving the forum for support.
No one here is trying to attack you at all. There are just so many people here that have been dealing with addiction for many years and know what it takes.Most success stories are from the ones that realize it is a lifelong battle that never ends. With the Waismann Method you are only getting through the first and easy part of recovery which is withdrawals. The real battle begins after that. The Waismann Method website even talks about aftercare. It also says it has a 64% success rate. And I'm sure that percentage comes from the ones that realize it takes more than to just bypass the physical withdrawals.
So please take everyone's advice here and don't think anyone is attacking you. They are just looking out for your best interests and want to see you succeed.
Best of luck to you!
What do they do to help with the mental part? The physical part is one thing..the mental part is entirely different. You're still going to need aftercare, sorry but there's no ''easy'' way out of this. Sure they can make the physical part a cakewalk for you but the mental part, in my experience anyways, was the hardest. True recovery requires a lot of effort and no matter how much money you spend, you cannot buy yourself recovery. It is a process that you need to do. Working a good aftercare program would be really important in staying clean. I wish you all the best and I hope you've lined up some aftercare. NA and a counsellor who specializes in addictions are options you might want to consider. Good luck and keep us posted.
Dependency is the actual physical changes to your body which cause withdrawal. Addiction is the BEHAVIOR of taking the drugs to get high, not as prescribed, and when not needed for clinical reasons. It is the un-manageable behaviors associated with lack of control.
Which comes first... Dependence or addiction? Usually it's addiction, but it can be the other way, but the key issue which causes the progression of addiction are the behaviors.
People use dependency and addiction interchangeably and they are not the same thing.
Just wanted to clarify. You are mentally addicted and you are physically dependent- If you are considering yourself 'mentally dependent' what you mean to say is ADDICTED.
Hope you come back and continue posting especially after the detox. Also,I just want to say,we can all go round and round about physical vs mental addiction. It's really moot at this point because Dr. Waismann's treatment assures relief from physical withdrawal and mental cravings. So,that's good.
Sounds like u r SOLD! Not attempting to talk u outta it so I will not even try..but am gonna state what I know about this topic to encourage others not to do this unless u got bunches of money to spare///can be dangerous but do not know anyone who died from it///quoted cases of deaths tho in literature
There is no way a procedure can make u never crave opiates again nor get sick if u take them....perhaps removing the part of the brain responsible for behavior and decisions like a labotomy! Then u would have no personality left//This procedure is susposed to "run" u thru physical detox fast...altho those i have talked too, crashed hard when they got home...and suffered detox after they left the place...HARD detox when the meds they pumped u with wear off!
others were given sub after this detox procedure and sent home on sub////DUH! course they didnt crave nor feel wds cos they gave them a strong narcotic to take...u can go to a sub dr and skip wds for a heck of alot cheaper than 21,000 bux! Seems as if some send u home on sub and others send u home to crash and burn...depends on the facilty
There is no easy way out of addiction....Addicts are so afraid of wd they will pay this kind of money in hopes they will have no physical wds and the one thing a person who has not been there does not understand...its the Mental Wds that will do most peeps in//not the physical.. altho an addict fears the physical so bad it paralyzes them into making decisions they would not normally make
Cleandom comes from within...it is a feeling that can not be replaced...lots of work but sumpin money cant buy
I am wishing u all the luck in the world...and do not want to be negative...i just want to be sure no one else thinks physically the body can "wonder" where the next pill is coming from or when
the body is controlled by the brain..the body can not "wonder" anything at all...only the brain can..."wonder" is a mental term///a leg or an arm is not capable of "wondering" nor "anger" nor "sadness" nor feeling happiness
I you have not put down ur money in advance...I would do some more research..i am a skim reader and I went back and read ur posts just now...sweetie u r a sitting duck for these vultures....please listen to the posts and re-evaluate...again in all liklihood it will not hurt u to do this...and if u have the money to burn, there is a risk but these days the risk is small////thing is...it is clear u do not understand addiction at all....and ur research on this topic seems to be not scientifically based at all//which r the peeps these companies prey on..those who do not understand the physicological and chemical aspects of the brain...being in the health care profession they would skip over me in a heart beat and save the sales pitch for the next waiting victim...be smart...and be safe
I have a good friend who's wife became an oxycontin addict. He took her to the Waisman clinic in LA California.. The bill was about the same..
They did the procedure on her, it worked fine.. She was sick for about 50 hours, typical withdrawal stuff.. (after she woke up), but she was clean..
She took the Nalexarone. or whatever its called and stayed clean for 8 months.. Then she relapsed .. As of a month ago, she was taking about 70mg of Dilaudid a day.. Which is quite a bit..
She detoxed the hard way 2 weeks ago.. she is at an old fashioned rehab this time..
What has become clear was that she did no work afterwards to stay clean. The Waisman clinic worked wonders, but there was no big price to pay for sobriety..
So that you know.. The last time I saw her, she was as high as a kite.. her opiate receptors where working wonderfully.. that drug they give you will keep them blocked, so long as you take it .. and that is where the addict brain needs to be addressed..
I did a cold turkey detox myself. I could have gone to the Waisman clinic. .it was within my means, I chose to just shake it out in a room for a week..
You have to think of Waisman as detox.. nothing more.. its not treatment.. She still got PAWS, which is apparently the main cause of relapse.. I say all the power to the Waisman clinic.. but its only a small part of the process..
Anyway.. I got an email from her husband yesterday.. she is a mess.. she is going into a long term treatment place for therapy.. I wish her and everyone else fighting this terrible disease the best ..
Let me clarify what I meant by that post.. The Waisman clinic did exactly what they told her they would do.. she left clean.
She did wake up sick, but nothing like a Cold Turkey detox..
I think its a great system, so long as you don't think its over when you leave. You will be very capable of getting addicted again.. no problem.. the Nalexarone will block the receptors while your taking it .. but without the constant effort to stay clean, you run the risk of actually stopping the medication..
In speaking to her husband.. she told him that she decided she didn't need it anymore.. that was at about month 8.. She suffered horrible depression for about 6 months after the treatment .. Her synapsis was a mess and her brain was not manufacturing the good feelings anymore..
She started to blame the Nalexarone for the depression.. Which makes no sense medically, but as an addict, I would suggest that any of us could twist that yarn and believe it ..
After she quit the Nalexarone .. she was using again in a few weeks.. Last check it was 2 x 8mg Dilaudid, 4-5 times a day.. For a 125lb lady.. that is a mother of a dose..
The other thing that happened to her was her tolerance grew huge again rapidly.. Not like her first time around..
Irregardless of if your " mentally addicted " .. your synapsis fluid and brain are a mess from the drugs.. that will take time to get on track again.. and you will suffer PAWS.. and those are the triggers that start the dance all over again.. The only barrier you have is that Nalexarone.. which you can easily just stop taking..
Anyway... as a tool to detox.. it works well.. but the is zero chance of waking up healthy and happy.. You have to do the work afterwards to protect that $21,000 investment..
No one is trying to tell you that this won't get you through the first part of the process. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing. It's not about the clinic or the price. Most here have gotten through the first step of the process which is the physical part on their own. It is no different than what you are doing, it just takes a week or so compared to 48 hours. Everyone here is talking about what follows the physical withdrawals. Addiction doesn't end once you start feeling better physically. It is a ongoing process. Everyone here cares and wants you to succeed. They just want you to know it is not a overnight fix.
i think Trying_Hard said it great above. Just heed the advice from everyone and protect that $21000 investment. It takes more than a weekends worth of work.
You don't always get what you pay for. It's the work that you put in that will decide the outcome of the future. Money cannot always get you everything, even sobriety.
I apologize if i made it seem like money was going to buy me whatever i wanted, not what i meant. Even though i have come to addiction I still feel like i'm a strong person mentally however I dunno...i just want to use a "short cut" when it comes to the physical part (W/Ds) I mean ****, i went through 1 day of W/Ds and they were so bad I wanted to jump out my window. Maybe I am weak and am taking the cowards way out.
You are not weak. You are not taking the coward's way out. You are using a service that is available to you. Nothing wrong with that at all! If you were a weak person you wouldn't be wanting to get better by getting off the pills.
People just want you to know that it takes so much more than just getting through the physical withdrawals. I've seen people post on here many times saying "getting clean is the easy part, staying clean is the hard part". And in no way do they mean that the physical withdrawals are easy. It's just a saying that points out how important aftercare truly is. People here care so much about their fellow addicts and just want you to succeed so bad. So many people think that once they are through the physical withdraws that they are home free. I use to think the exact same way. We all do at first. We have to give in to addiction and realize that we have to use every resource that is available to us to stay clean. That is all everyone is trying to say. We are just saying this from previous experiences. It has nothing to do with the technique we use to get past the first part. It has to do with long term recovery.
I wish you nothing but the best. I pray that it all works out for you buddy!
Congrats on wanting to get your life back!
You are young,healthy,successful and have a lot to live for.Your life will also improve when you are clean.Even your sex life will improve because all your senses come back even better.
You have an opportunity to detox quickly and take this opportunity and make it happen.
Have a plan in place for aftercare and everything will be fine.
I wish you the best in your recovery and am glad you have support of your family because it helps a lot.
The Waisman method is good for people who don't think they can handle the week or two of physical wd's but as some of the posts above have said it does very little to address the root causes of the addiction nor does it do much to keep the addict from relapsing. What it does do is allow the addict to get past the physical wd's without paying much of a price which doesn't seem like a great thing to me.
basically most of the people here have failed over and over to stay sober..so they are playing you off there fears.
I can tell you that no matter what I do in my life..I will never CT again...I am currently tapering...and it is working and after surgery I will taper of get on Subs...it's funny because most of the folks here have CT and failed over and over.
So I am not exactly sure what that is about.....personally I am finding much strength in tapering...I haven't slipped up one time.... not once...I just go about my business and find power in control...
anyways..good luck...going to be A HUGE RELIEF to not have to take all those pills to make it to the next moment in life.
Why do you feel that its bad that if someone can they can get through the WDs comfortably? People who quit smoking, do you feel they should have a heart attack to realize what they were doing to themselves? No, so why if possible shouldn't someone get through WDs as comfortably as possible?
Also I finally set everything in stone, meaning I made the down payment. I found out that after the procedure they actually send you to a detox retreat which is the domus retreat...www.domusretreat.com. It actually looks really nice and although its only for 5 days its still going to be a step in the right direction. After that I will come back to the east coast, go back to work and then figure out what the next step in my recovery will be.
Most of us need to remember the horrible withdrawals in order to stay clean. Believe it or not, as horrible as those withdrawals you had were, your addiction would have made you forget them in a matter of weeks.
I'm just not a believer in people having to suffer to realize that they are doing something wrong. I mean while they are going thru their addiction they are going thru so much as it is. For example, people tend to lose friends, family, money, self respect because of their addiction now your telling me they need to go thru the physical pain as well? Sometimes i could imagine that could be a tipping point and people may go over the edge because of it. If everyone had a chance to go thru the physical WDs without pain and within an hour instead of weeks I can see anyone saying no to it, but maybe its just me.
I have no problem with people having an easy detox. I'll be completely honest with you, I'd go through a detox once a week every 3 months if I didn't have the mental crap the rest of the time. In other words, those who have any significant clean time at all will tell you that the detox is by far the easiest part.
First off, we are not playing him off of our fears. We are stating our opinions based on personal experience in an effort to HELP.
Secondly, and the sooner you understand this, the better off even you will be, is that it is NOT the method of detox we choose that determines our risk for relapse. If detox alone was the only obstacle for any of us to overcome our addictions, this would be an empty, and even non-existent forum. If we are going to relapse it will most often be because we didn't take proper measures to take care of our emotional states of mind after detoxing.
Frivolousz has a lot of gall to make such a blanket statement about the folks on the forum playing out their fears on you! Ouch! Maybe when she's totally clean she'll change her opinion of the rest of us...
It's good that you're going to their rehab for 5 days post detox. I really wish the best for you.You're young and have so much going for you. At this point,I think it's great that you just want to get off the pills,no matter what the method is,and that your family and GF are so supportive. Keep posting to us;obviously we care about you!
As a kind of fellow newbie (43 days) I would like to add something. When I was about to detox, I was terrified. I kept thinking if I could just get through those four or five days, I woudl be OK. It was only on day 5 or 6 that the depression really set in. I realized what all these people were talking about. The mental part. I thought I was stronger and that the physical part was the worst, then I embarked on that 25 day stretch that proved me wrong. If there is one thing that will help me stay sober, it is not the detox. That is like being really sick. I just treated myself like I was sick with a bad flu. It was the mental part. I watch Dr. Drew on Celebrirty Rehab all the time. There was a bass guitarist on there coming off of methadone. He was asking Dr. Drew why the days were so hard. After all, he was way past the physical part. Dr. Drew told him that the methadone was leaving his brain, and that in a sense, his brain was detoxing, but it took a longer time. This made total sense to me. So, I think what people are telling you is that even though you will not have physical withdrawals, the meantal part will still be there, so be prepared. Not to not do it. By all means, do what is best for you. There is not wrong way to get off pills so long as you get off them. Just be prepared for things to not get better right away. But make no mistake about it..... They WILL get better. You are also getting a head start with speeding the detox, so more power to you! Just stay the course and get some aftercare and you will do great. Good luck! Also, there was an episode of E Invesigates: addicted to pills. It had a woman on there undergo this treatment on camera and I think at that clinic. Interesting. She is still clean.
Boskey..all negative warnings aside ...I am sooo glad you came back and posted.I was actually concerned for you when we did not hear from you altho you did tell Us you would wait till after Christmas to do anything.
You are extremely brave to come back and to listen to all of our comments both good and bad..and I also posted some "not so positive" warnings.
But you came right back and took it like a man.
You will also go through your detox and post detox like the man you are and show all of us the stuff you are made of.
You have my permission to prove me wrong in some of my dire warnings.
Hugs and more hugs to you.
If Rapid Detox was available everywhere and was 50 bucks..the tune would be sung much different.That's all I am saying.....there wouldn't be many folks here who wouldnt' of gone that route other then CT when they first went to detox....how many of us stayed on the pills only because of the WD's?
I have to agree with frivolousz to an extent. I tend to think that people are almost looking down on me because i'm using my wallet to get thru part of the process. I could just be reading everything wrong but thats the way it seems to an extent. Not saying that ya'll dont care because I can see that you do its just that there seems to be a stigma with paying to get thru a hard part.
Hi BF... No stigma attached on my part. Personally,I couldn't have done this anyway because I was not an opiate abuser. My love affair was with barbiturates.
I can't speak for the others but...I don't think so. I think that everyone is concerned for you long term as far as mental cravings are concerned and aftercare. But we'll see how they respond. I view your situation as a fortunate one. You have an illness and can afford the best treatment avaiable. Who would begrudge you that? It would be the same if you had(God forbid) diabetes or cancer. You could get the best of care at the best facilities in the country. It's only my opinion here but I really don't think folks are looking down on you for using your wallet to get through the" hard part".
It's just that many of us know what the hard part truly is...
I never thought you were bragging.In fact it was me who brought up finances and suggested you should invest the$21000 wisely.
You pointed out that you already have investments.
You should rightly be proud of your accomplishments
Anyways,that $21000 is a good investment in your healing and recovery and will repay you much more than even your other ones..
It really doesn't matter if the cost of this treatment is 21,000.00 or 21.00. I dont think anyone was really concerned with the cost of this as much as what you will do to take care of yourself after. Again i agree with whatever method of detox a person chooses as long as they keep an open mind going into it so that they are not blindsided by unexpected emotions after. You will be in my prayers and i will pray for the best outcome for you. Stay determined and you will be fine. Luv, Jacky
i apologize if I came off rude..I was not trying to lump anyone together...I may of choose my words wrong...I just think anyone here posting period needs 100 percent support...and some reality..but the reality is..this guy is going to get clean....and he gets to miss the terribly WDs...good for him..I hope he comes back here as soon as he is home and can post and feels great.
Sometimes the written word comes across much harsher than the spoken word and things are interpreted as rude when that was not the intention.
None of us are here to be rude for who can sling arrows...but we are here to help and be helped.
I just want to point out that getting clean and getting into recovery are much different things. I got clean literally a hundred times. I've been in recovery once. Recovery means long term sobriety. Just getting clean without recovery will just lead to relapse.
Well my girlfriend bailed on me. She came over today all upset and crying her eyes out. Since I have let the addiction get the best of me, well me and her haven't had the best relationship. I have been really distant with her and just not who I was in the beginning of the relationship. She has stuck it out with me the whole time, being there for me for my 18 hr Withdrawals (yeah i know its sad that I can't handle 18 hr withdrawals, been stabbed during work and was fine w that but WDs get the best of me) and with me when i'm bitching and moaning about the addiction. Well today she said she wasn't going to SoCal with me because she said that she feared that if she came with me then I should make a commitment to working on our relationship when SoCal is over n done with. I told her that, and its gonna sound selfish, that I need to work on me before i can even think about working on us. I told her I dunno how i'm going to be after the procedure. I mean i said to her that i felt that once i began to kick this then EVERYTHING in my life would improve but she wanted more of a promise to focus on our relationship first and foremost. For some reason I felt that that was unfair to me because I should be focused on recovery more then anything else. It ***** because i know she doesn't deserve how I have been treating her but to kinda lose faith (not faith like god but faith in me) now didn't seem right. But her final decision is not to come.
PS Anyone want a free plane ticket to come out w me....prerequisite: between 21-30, good job, and cute...haha
Sorry to hear about your girlfriend buddy. You have to remember that someone who has never dealt with addiction has no idea whatsoever how difficult it can. I commend you for being honest with her. Most of the time us addicts just say anything to get past the moment to smooth things out. What you did and said to her was the truth and I think you said exactly what you should have. You are completely right about having to work on "you" first and foremost. Without first fixing ourself we cannot fix anything else. You are right about your life improving after the procedure. Once we are clean and away from the pills everything in life will get back on track and workout. It is so hard for a non addict to realize this. Hell, half the time addicts don't realize this. You did good boss even if it does hurt right now. For now just work on you. Once you are clean maybe she will understand if you and her decide to try and work things out. I know it doesn't seem fair to you and I agree. But like I said before, someone who is not a addict has no idea what we have to deal with. But also, we have no idea what our significant other has to deal with. I hate what I did in the past to my wife, family, and friends. But that is in the past and we cannot dwell on it. All we can do is fix what can be fixed. But for now, you don't worry about that. You worry about you and it will all work out.
Don't get so down on yourself about "18 hour withdrawals" and not being able to handle them. I did two tours in Iraq while serving in the Marine Corps Infantry and I would rather do 10 more tours than to have to deal with withdrawals again! While in war I never thought I would think this way. But I'm on 18 days I think and still pushing. I'm past the physical it's just trying to live life without the pills. It is also tough because I have to deal with chronic back pain from a injury I received while in Iraq. I know that I cannot take them as prescribed again so it's all or nothing. I'm learning to deal with my back pain with otc, physical therapy, and exercise. The emotional pain from the pills is so much worse than the physical of my back injury.
Just a quick comment about the mention of the money. I don't think anyone is trying to judge you on that. I think everyone is happy for you for being able to go that route. I too have the means to do the Waismann method if I choose. But for me it's not the physical part of withdrawals that get me. It is the mental part thinking I can control my use. You may be stronger mentally than me so hopefully that won't be a issue for you. Everyone is different when it comes to withdrawals. But I feel one thing we all have in common is that it is a lifelong battle to stay clean and we have to do the work. Everyone here is just trying to stress about the importance of the mental aspect of addiction after we are past the physical part. I once had a year clean and never thought I'd go back to them. If I would have realized how much these pills effect our lives even months or years down the road, I would have done more.
You have to remember that everyone here is stating their opinion. Many have been battling addiction for a long time and just trying to help. Just because someone types something doesn't mean you have to listen to it. Just as I'm trying to give advice, I don't expect you to use it if you don't feel my advice is right for you. It's just my opinion on everything. I'm not saying anything I have said or am saying is right. It's just the way I look at it.
I wish you nothing but the best in your battle and in life in general. Everything will work out the way it's suppose to. As of now, try not to worry about your girl. You worry about you getting better. Addiction is a disease and although there is no permanent cure, you can put it in remission. We are all here for you to help you put it in remission.
Never give up buddy. You can do this!
hey bro sounds like me i nvr read ur full story just a quick drift an sounds exact same as me im 26 yrs old and i was up to 60 norcos a day but stopped tht than went to oxies bout 3-4 day sniffn an smokn em so im very very curious as to what this rapid detox consists of if u can explain it an if u wouldnt mind givn me a ballpark figure of the price if u wouldnt mind cuz ive tried a buncha diff ways myself so id be intrested to learn about this if u could fill me in a lil thnks alot bud an good luck
I completely agree with everything that you said. Actually maybe its not that big of a deal that shes not going. The way its set up i'm there for 7days/6nights and my family is only allowed to see me on days 1 (dropping me off) and day 3 (just after the procedure) besides that i'm pretty much on my own. Where I go to the retreat i read that they have wireless internet so i'm def bringing my ibook and posting my experience here. If you or anyone has time go to their website domusretreat.com the place looks amazing, almost better then a resort, should be a great place to spend 4days in after the procedure. From what I hear the staff caters to you every wish/need 24/7.
ok my bad i only read ur first post i got all the answers i needed thnks well let me kno how it goes aftrerward, and i did have one commenbt for ya an thts if u dont thnk ur addicted an i dnt kno u mite not be BUT if ur sayn u take 30-40 pills puls 5-6 oxies all in one day an thts just to not feel the withdrawls well dude thts a little over kill man i mean if all ur taking these pills are to not feel the w/d's than i wuld thnk tht u could get by on alot less than what u take a on daily use cuz thts alota pills to take to just take the withdrawls i mean buddy i take alota pills well i should say i use to an i kno dam well i took em to feel normal i didnt get high either BUT i took that many to try feel good an for many other reason i mean im addicted and im not sayn u are but just think about it dude ur taking that many pills in a 24 hr period to just get by idk man tht just seems lil off to me. but u gota do u. either way when u get done from ur clinic plz let me kno all the details of what it was truly all about an good luck ta ya an dont take this as attacking u im just truly stating what me an im sure others r thnkin
I never said I wasn't addicted, i most certainly am. I just don't think i'm as mentally addicted as many people think I am. I think its purely a physical addiction more then anything. Like i said I don't sit around and think "i can't wait to take more" "when am i gonna have my next dose" It only really comes on when my body starts to feel the physical need which starts to occur about every 5hrs or so. with 24 hrs in a day and 6-8 per dose that comes out to...low balling 6 per dose comes out to 24 a day- 7 per dose comes out to 21 a day and high side 8 per dose comes out to 32. The oxys i really dont take unless i'm out of the percs or running low, i actually prefer the percs over oxys ten fold.
Using to avoid and feel normal is pretty much the last 5 years of my story.. I think most addicts would say that their primary concern was trying to feel normal.
The "getting high" part really fades after a while.. The high is never really as good anymore.. I spent all day taking just enough to feel normal but I would hit it hard to get to sleep..
I think its awesome that your going to detox.. I really hope you post here after the procedure. This place is encouraging to you and too the people who read your posts.
'I chose Cold Turkey, it was a self hate decision and I saw it through.. I felt that I really deserved it.. every day, I told myself that if I gave up, I would have to start from scratch again.. after day 2, I felt so invested that I couldn't give up ..
When you wake up at Waismann, your gonna feel rough.. I was told that the staff at Waismann are fantastic.. some of the best in the world.. Your in a safe place and you have to just give yourself over to them..
The thing that really helped me was taking an attitude of curiosity.. I had to prepare for it before hand, but it really helped.. Rather than freak out, I just said (outloud) .. " this is really amazing " or " this is really impressive " ..
Detox is very physical.. if you can simply observe what is happening to yourself, even after the procedure, and keep in mind that your body is cleaning itself and healing.. well, it might help you keep a winning attitude..
I am sorry you have to deal with this as well as your detox..It is another emotional hurdle but with strength and determination you will overcome it and come out a new and improved Boskey.
Keep plugging and things will turn out.They always do if you make them.
Here is my perspective. You sound like a nice guy, who is determined. I think you can do this with the Waisman or without. I think what everyone is trying to say is this:
When I first became addicted and found this site, I was looking for a way to get through my w.d. I truly believed that if I could just get through it, I would be ok. I wouldn't have to worry about w.d making me want to use. I had tried so many times to quit and to no avail because of the hardcore w.d's. I was coming off of about 10-15 oxy 80's a day. I am all of 125 lbs..lol. Well, this was 4 years ago, but hey...still 125lbs. I swear..
Back to the point, when I stopped I felt great. I went through a MONTH of hell. Then another month of being so weak and tired, but my energy came back as did my being happy. About 3 months went by and I started to think that hey...I am clean, why not get an 80 and take a quarter, or half. It was a Friday, I ain't had crap to do, lol, and I didn't think it would be a big deal. Once it hit me, it all came back. I took the rest of that pill that night and got more the next day. I went right back into full blown addiction. Fast forward 4 years, I am now between 8-9 months clean. After that relapse, I got myself clean again, and lasted 2 years...and everyone here that knows me knows I was devastated at my previous relapse. I had started out in aftercare counseling and meetings but quit them. I relapsed when given percs from my dr. I stopped again immediately because I knew I was going to call my old dealer and get more 80's. I truly didn't want to go back to where I was. I lost everything because of my addiction.
Now, I am not saying you have to stay in meeting the rest of your life. But aftercare, in any form, should be on your agenda. Even if its coming here.
I am also NOT saying you are definitely mentally addicted, but..earlier you said you like to take them to chill..but just think about it..if you never took a pill before in your life, you would need a pill to relax and chill on the couch. You would just go sit down and watch tv and not think anything of it. Its your brain telling you you need those pills to relax. Because if you tried to do it without taking a pill, within minutes you would be saying to yourself "Man, this would be so much better with some pills" and off you would go to get them. So, its not your fault. None of us can stop what happens to our minds from these pills. It really is ashame.
Anyway, good luck and I am rooting for you for sure!!
I read a little more of this thread here. I don't think people are attacking. Just so you know Brosky, GaGuy is a long time member here and he knows what he is talking about, he really isn't being mean. He is just trying to help you.
One more thing to add, what this whole thread comes down to is this, if you weren't mentally addicted, then why didn't you stop before you became physically addicted? I know you got them from your dr, but you weren't taking what he prescribed to you. Furthermore, this will be the first time you are going to be clean in a while. You have no clue how you are going to feel and adjust. You might really believe you are not mentally addicted and we can only tell you what we have been through and what we know, as a collective whole, to be true as addicts. Once you no longer have opiates in your system your brain is going to want to know how to reproduce endorphins and serotonin again on its own. You are going to be depressed. Depression leads to relapse.
But like I said, I think you can do it and I hope you do. good luck. Let us know how it goes...
Excuse me, but is there a reason you came on this thread and started talking about all of the other people here. Lol, what have you been here all of a few months??? Don't talk about all of us as though you know everyone here. You have no clue what everyone here went through. Don't address us as everyone and don't speak about everyone's addicted and method of getting clean as if you personally know.
The people in this forum care about one another. Most of us that HAVE been here for years are all good friends. We help each other and are there for each other. Even the newer members. All we were trying to do was help him. To make him understand that the getting clean part is one thing, and he can choose to do that however he wants, its staying clean that is the hard part. I don't care if he rubbed peanut butter on his head and jumped up and down for 4-7 days to get clean. As long as he gets there. he is on the right track. He just needs to acknowledge that whether he knows it or not, the mental addiction is there. Its just dormant because he is still physically addicted.
Does the peanut butter thing work?I guess it will if one wants it to because it is all within ourselves and our determination to succeed.
Everything else is just a tool to help us along,but the final thing that makes or breaks our healing is the mind.
LOL, well...not sure, but hey...as long as I don't have to ever try it.
I agree with you 100% Pharma. I believe Brosky will be ok. I forget who said it above and don't want to go back and read that thread again, but someone said the point is that he doesn't want to be on the pills anymore and he is doing something about it. I am not at all opposed to a quick/easy detox. Man, I looked into it too, just couldn't afford it. I just want him to be prepared for what's to come. If he goes through this process and he find and doesn't need anything to help him to not relapse, then we were all wrong. I will definitely apologize. But my point is, if he wasn't mentally addicted then he won't need the Nalexone when he is done. Because he just wants to get through the w.d.
Brosky, again, I believe in you. i am not trying to be mean or tell you anything. You are the only one that knows you and knows exactly what you are doing. So go get it done and just be careful and promise us if you think you will relapse you will come here and talk to us. That's all..
I think I started all this..and, for some reason everyone started to fixate on the detox. I honestly don't care how anyone gets clean. Geez, in the grand scope of things..it's really irrelevant. It seems like the end of time when you're doing it...but, it's your disease talking to you during that time along with the physical withdrawals. I've said it many times, and I'm going to post it here one last time..Getting clean and being in recovery are dramatically different things. If you are a true addict and think that just detoxing and getting clean will keep you clean, then you're heading for relapse already. Recovery includes aftercare..and it it vital for long term clean time.
Remember the old saying that if it is too good to be true.... Now, this could just be for me, as I don't react well to things.
There are other places that do hospital rapid detox.
I researched well, myself, or so I thought. Hard to research when you can't really get the whole story.
At any rate, if you think this is going to be easy as far as detox goes you may find that you just spent 21k for being dropped into immediate withdrawal and all that comes with that. And you no doubt are much stronger a person than me as you are young and no doubt in good psychical shape.
Naltrexone can be implanted or taken by pill form. Some do not do well and get infections from the implant form.
I just didn't get along with the Naltrexone.
Plan a bit more time if you have to fly back. You might not be as good as they say. If you fly that can make for a really dicey flight.
Have you actually been able to talk with a number of patients and I mean real patients?
I wish you luck and to have a much easier time than I had and no I didn't go the same place you are going to but it was in a hospital.
I was on a total of about 110 mg ocy. daily. That was 40mg oxycontin ( 2 15 mg and 10mg spaced out. I took one every 8 hours) and the rest percocet.
I would write more but I am sick and need to lay down.
Best thing I took with besides my best friend was depends.
Hey guys sorry i havent been on here in a min, its been a rough day or 2. I walked into work at 5pm on fri and was confronted by my Sgt. (makes it even tougher i've known him my whole life, good family friend) saying that the Lt. of Internal Affairs needed to see me. Well I walked into the office, he asks me to have a seat and the first things he says is, "I'm going to need your gun" well this hit me so hard I could barely move, the Sgt. had to take the gun outta me holster bc I was so shocked about him even saying that. I was advised that someone told the Lt. that I have a problem with Percocets. He went on to interview me about my whole situation, harping on the fact that i had to be completely honest and if I was then I wouldn't lose my job. Just a little background, when something like this happens they have to options they can forward the case to the prosecutors office (criminal charges) or handle it in house. The Lt. told me that it wasn't being forwarded to the prosecutors officer, although that still did nothing for my nerves. Long story short is i had to be honest about everything. At once point he ask if I ever got it from anyone at work, adding "be truthful, i cant stress that enough" and i did. Another officer had the same rx as i did therefore bc i couldn't get to my dr i asked him if i could have his rx bc i know he didn't use it anymore. Well i'm assuming he will now be in in trouble like me. I never looked at it as a big deal bc we had the same rx and i didnt offer to buy them off him, nor did he ask for money. And when he gave them to me I even showed him my rx so he knew that i actually had the same rx. Its killing me because i'm not a rat or snitch but when you have no clue who told the IA Lt. about my situation then you don't know what they know. And when he stresses honesty will preserve my job then i'm between a rock and a hard place. Anyways I am now suspended indefinitely w/ pay. I gotta think it (if not because its true but because i need to be ositive) that if they wanted to fire me they would have forwarded it up to the prosecutors office and suspended me w/o pay. Also several times he said that i'll be ok n he released me to my brother (who is a Sgt. for 19yrs w the same department) and told my brother that i was gonna be ok n would lose my job. i don't know what to believe at this point. they know i'm getting help, matter a fact because of all this i got my apt. moved up a week earlier.
Nervous and Fearful of losing my love...my career.
Oh my....there is no question now,you have to stop.Perhaps you can even cut down drastically while you are waiting for your detox.Test yourself and taper.You really really have to quit to save your job.
You are one tough cop...you can do it.
We were all afraid that it might come to this and your job would be at risk.
Just make it happen.You can do it.
You are being given an opportunity to save your job and you have to do it
Good luck and our prayers are with you.
It looks like your use is out in the open now..no hiding it.
Your best bet is to start quitting right now.
Perhaps if they know you are registered in a detox program they can not fire you
Consider this as an intervention and take advantage of it to quit.
Once you have gone through detox you will be an even better person and cop because you will understand others pain and suffering.
I am sooo rooting for you
Since you did not buy on the streets and have a real Rx perhaps they can not fire you..
Very sorry to hear about your work troubles. Thankfully it looks like you won't lose the job you love.
Hopefully it will be the wake up call you need to see that your addiction runs a little deeper than mere physical dependence.
You've now also managed to implicate a non-addicted friend in your shenanigans. I'm assuming the IA dept did not agree with your assertion that getting pills from someone you know and getting them off the street are not the same.
This latest job thing is but ONE of the predictions made above. If you keep playing the game you will see many more come true.
Unlike what someone said, we are NOT playing you off of our fears, we are playing you off of our experiences and we are warning you of OUR realities. Absolutely most of us have relapsed many times DUH!!!! Why do you think it makes us perfect to give advice to warn you of the troubles we see YOU heading for.
We do NOT want you to lose your livelihood. Within several days you have lost your woman and come very close to losing your job. We ARE all hoping it is the jolt of reality you need to get all the help you can including help once leaving the clinic.
It's very commendable that you've come back here to explain what happened to you, especially with all the stuff we've posted. It takes a big man to come here and take it on the chin and keep coming back for more and that is admirable.
We DO care about your outcome. Hopefully now that your secret is out, you will be made accountable to stay clean.
Hang in there Boskey, this CAN be done.
Wishing you a positive outcome and a long career,
Just wanted to let you know that there are only 3 official "rapid detox places that are legit. One of them are right here in New Orleans,LA and it'd the Kaye method. I personally know the famous doctor. I know that before you do this, you have to be weaned down before if you are on a long life pain medicine. You usually have to go down on another lower pain pill to wean off. For example if your on methadome, suboxone, fentanyl, they give you lower dose and short half life pain pill for 3 weeks before the rapid detox under general anesthesia! YOU NEED TO KNOW....that right after you have this done you are still going to feel pretty bad b/c you body will still be craving the drug like crazy. Your going to feel like you have the flu for about a week after! The rapid detox just gets the pain drug out of your system, it doesn't stop the withdrawals that your body is craving. There is no way of getting out of that! Its just plain common sense. Unless they keep you under for a week, which is not possible of course! I thought before it gets rid of that. The rapid detox just gets rid of the drug in a matter of hours and can shorten the withdrawals. They are also supposed to keep you in ICU for a day and night. They give you something to help you sleep and, 800 motrin for withdrawal pain, immodium AD for the diarreah, Naltrexate to help with opiate cravings. When you get the rapid detox you have to be put on Naltrexate b/c it prevents from opiate cravings and will make you sick if you take any pain medicine and keeps you away from wanting a pain pill. I hope it goes okay! Just be prepared and make sure you ask a bunch of questions. Everything I said is true! Make sure their telling you the truth!!! Dr. Kaye has a website and I believe its like www.kayemethod.com Its something like that. You can just goole Dr. Alan Kaye. Good info on his site!
Hey Boskey...Sorry to read about this...I think it's a bump in the road though. You have two things in your favor: You recognized your problem BEFORE it caught up with you and you have a plan in place to straighten it out. Plus,you were honest.
To me,it seems likely that the ofc. who gave you some pills is the one who went to the Sgt. You were asked that question and it was very specific...I guess you'll never really know,though. Just curious...why did you have to be "released" to another ofc./Sgt.,your brother? Is that policy? Like being escorted out of the building?
Hang tough...this will pass and you WILL be okay...just takes time...
I'm also sorry to hear about your situation. Like so many say, we usually have to hit our rock bottom in order to realize we have a problem. But, you noticed this even before all of this happened so you were ahead of the game. It's just unfortunate all of this caught up to you before you could start your detox. But like Bob said above, this just shows what abusing pills can do to us. I know you realized this beforehand and that's why you were in the process of getting help. I respect you for posting all of this. I think it will really help people here that just joined the forum to realize where addiction can take us and what it can do to our lives.
It sounds like your officer is going to help you through this. Most people realize that people get thrown in to addiction before they realize it. I know it was hard being honest with him especially about having to tell him that you took some pills from a coworker. But being honest will take you so far when trying to get clean. Secrets can swallow us whole when we are addicts. It sounds as if as long as you get your life back on track, your job will still be there for you. Prove to yourself and to them that you are doing everything possible to get past this part of your life. I know you were worried about going to NA meetings because you were afraid of seeing someone you know. But now you don't have to worry about that. Your department may even make you go to them. But instead of waiting to see, I would start going tomorrow. When there get a signed sheet saying you attended and take it to your officer in charge. I think the meetings would be huge because I'm sure people at your police department know that judges usually make NA meetings mandatory for people that get arrested. Because of this they might automatically assume that it is something you need to do. They might just think that without meetings, you are not serious about getting clean. I know this is not the case, but do they? You know what I mean? Just my opinion and hope you know where I'm coming from. Not that I'm placing you in a particular group but people who are not addicts just don't seem to understand anything about addiction. This will also help prove how serious you are about getting help. The more proactive you are in your recovery, the easier it will be to earn back the trust of your officer and fellow workers. This may have been exactly what you needed to get over this bump in the road. I wish it would have never happened this way especially because you were and are in the process of getting clean. I hate how addiction can just totally mess up everything around us at the drop of a dime. All we can do is learn from situations like this and do all we can to push through to the other side.
Don't dwell on all of this too much. I'm sure it's hard not too but stressing about it won't help. What will help is getting all the help you can get while you are not working. Maybe check in to a addiction therapist also. Anything that you can show to your department to prove to them that you want off these pills is going to help you so much. You now have all the time in the world to get the help you need to prove to them that you are stronger than these pills. And I know you are much stronger than this addiction.
Just hang in there buddy. It will all work out. If they were going to push the issue, they would have done it right away. It may not take much for them to push the issue and they are probably just waiting to see what route you take. We all know the route you are taking but we are fellow addicts and understand this more than what they do and believe in you. It's hard saying what they are thinking especially since they don't truly understand addiction. So in my opinion you should start the meetings, get a addiction therapist, and start bringing paperwork to your officer showing him that you are taking the steps right away to get through this. They will also respect and realize that you want to get and stay clean.
I have faith in you Boskey and know you were already taking the steps to get your life back. Now that it is out you may just have to take a few more steps. Just keep pushing forward and you will get through this just fine. We are here to help in any way possible. Once you get through the Waismann Method, I would check in to the amino acid protocol. It really does help.
So when do you head out to Cali to start the detox?
wow, took me an hour to read this whole thread, but i just got back here after bein gone for about a year or more...I just want to wish you all the luck and the best and hope and pray for you that this method works for you...
Sorry to hear about the job, hopefully this will work out for the best...
anyway, will be praying that it works for you, keep posting, am interested in all success stories...fellow addict (mental & physical..) Keep smiling!!
Jstn I would appriciate if you, from now on just read the thread and not post. I'm sorry if this sounds rude but some of your feed back isn't needed for instance "You've now also managed to implicate a non-addicted friend in your shenanigans." Do you think I wanted to do that? Yeah you may know how addiction feels but do you know how it feels to have you gun taken away from you? Do you know how it feels to have to be honest and tell IA about a friend who thought he was helping me with back pain? Someone who wanted to see a script to make sure i had one, which i did. Have your superior officer look me straight in my eye and say "BE 110% honest or else you will lose your job, what am I going to do now? Do I sit there and lie to him about everything? You have never been in those shoes to comment on something in such a disrespectful and with such a "matter a fact" type comment. That was the hardest part of the whole process...knowing that i may have gotten someone else in trouble, but what else was I to do? Please from the get go you made another comment "naive to believe this is over after your spa." Spa? far from it. Sorry man you've posted 3 times and other have posted many more so you should be fine only reading from now on. Theres just something about your posts that i find arrogant and rude, maybe its just me.
To everyone else thanx for your replies. I dunno if its department policy or not, i mean the Lt. is another friend of the family, its a small town (84 officer department) and i have 2 older brothers and a older sister. Most of the officers are from the town therefore went to school with at least one of my siblings , meaning he may have just been looking out for me and wanting to explain what was going on to my brother.
I am set to leave a week earlier then I was already scheduled to go. I called up the following morning as advised them of what happened at work and they moved the date up. Procedure starts on the 21st leaving on the 20th. I actually spoke with Dr. Bernstein on the phone (the medical assistance gave me her person cell phone for any question i had 24/7...everyones been very thoughtful and easy to talk to) and asked him about the implant. He told me the reason why they don't use that is because it isn't FDA approved and they only go by the book.
As far as my Lt. knowing about me starting the process he saw that i had put in for the time off and i advised him why I put in for the time during the interview so he saw I was making plans before everything hit the fan. I will know a hell of a lot more as this work week is upon us.
I am sorry folks have been rude to you about what your trying to do..I think you are awesome....your service to our communities is greatly appreciated.and everyone knows you never mean't for your friend and fellow officer to get in trouble..I know you are going to go get cleaned up, recover well and become an even better cop and man. You have the power to do great things...do not let the present ruin your future..no matter what happens, job or not, gf or not...you have to do this for you..so you can be a better you...I hope you never relapses and you get what you are looking for..I hope you don't have to come back here...
o my god u have no idea how much i feel for u more than probably anyone else on here could ever imagine oh my god i truly am so so so sorry for u i kno how u must be feeling my jaw literally dropped to the floor an i was just so terriably taken back reading what had happaned to u an i really am here for u brother if u need ANYTHING plz let me kno i wana let u kno that i hope that it works out for u sht this suxs dam i hate these fkn pills. so did they tell u if there was gona be a hearing or anythn to let i kno whats going on. and did u say there gona handle it in hopuse rite? how long have u been on the job for? man i truly am so sorry an i dont pray as often as i should but i will DEF say a prayer for u tonite buddy an i wish u all the best of luck now get clean an work on getn ur on ur two feet an hopefully be back at the job u clearly luv to do. man an im dead serious anythng u need at all DO NOT hesitate no bs just ask. u can pm me or anythng u need
Hey Bosky - check your messages. I have been in your shoes. Your thread has caused quite the controversy - there is no easy way around it - whether you go through rapid or just plain old withdrawal - they both have pros and cons.
Boskey....of course you are hurting ,but don't let anyone discourage you.Keep posting.We are ALL anxious for you and want so badly for you to succeed.
My stomach dropped when I read your post because I so did not want that to happen.
You will keep your job and be the better person because of your experience.
Did you mention that you were stabbed in the line of duty(or did I imagine that)
You are a good person and will overcome this hurdle.
I was watching some of the paralympics on TV and look at those people overcoming their injuries and difficulties
You can do it Boskey and we are all cheering you on
Friv21 - There hasn't been one person in this forum or on this thread that has been "rude" to him. What everyone has been trying to do is help him. Help him to understand that his addiction may not be exactly what he thinks it is. No one can tell him things for certain. What everyone said was based on their own personal experiences and their knowledge of addiction. They were warning him, giving him advice. Not being rude. Its because we all care. If we didn't care, no one would have even read this thread. You seem to be really rude. If you don't like the people here so much and you think we are all rude, my question is...why are you still here? Lol. I mean, you are telling him that you hope he doesn't have to come back here??? Why on earth would he not come back? We all care and will be worried about him. I am sure many people here want to know how things work out for him. This forum also works as aftercare. He absolutely should come back here. You seem to just be agreeing with anything he says. If you want to talk about all the people in this forum, then send him messages privately.
Brosky, I hope you can understand that the only reason we all said what we did was to help you. I am so sorry you are dealing with this in work. I don't know what I would do. My addiction was recently outed. Well, about 9 months ago. It was horrible. But, I got through it and am doing great. You will be fine. I didn't want to make you any more upset the other day when I was posting on this thread, but I also heard (heard being the operative word) that after you are finished with this method, your body still goes through w.d. If you read up about w.d, and people's experiences, you will read that mostly everyone will say the worst of w.d usually occurs around the 3-4th day mark. This is because at this point, the opiates have completely left the body. So the brain is trying to find anything to make the body feel better and there is nothing left. That's when it gets bad, but also is a turning point because the physical w.d will start to subside with each passing day.
Once they get the opiates out, there isn't anything they can do about the mental part. So good luck. We ARE here for you and we DO CARE about you. This will all pass...work, w.d...everything and it will be up to you to never go back down this road. Trust me, the other side is wonderful and once you get there things will get better and better. Good luck.
Dunno if i really made it known how thankful i am to everyone here who has posted in this thread and has shown their concern. Not counting today i'm 4 days away from going to the airport and 5 more days from going into the hospital. Getting closer and closer....can't wait!
Consider this as a positive experience in the book of life.Learn as much as you can from it and bring those positive and negative experiences to your new life away from drugs.
You will love yourself better and so will everyone else for you will radiate the good energy.
Perhaps you could fill your free time learning new skills,eg cooking courses,photography,team sports,etc.
There are many good things you can do when you get back and on your feet again.
You could be a big brother and help less fortunate people.Helping others takes the mind off our own problems and helps us heal.
I hope you are not bingeing this week,but showing yourself some self control
Start preparing yourself for your new adventure with lots of viramins and nutrients.,
what a great thread this has been. it reminded of the old days, with witchy woman, hippy, et al.
good luck to you. you've received some really good input from others here. i had to learn to consider everyone's experience without feeling defensive and without justifying myself. one of the most important things i learned in recovery was to say "thank you" when I wanted to say "f--k you," especially when it seemed i was more than justified in saying the latter.
the most amazing thing i read was about you getting popped at work. i'm sure that seemed like the worst kind of luck at the moment, and probably doesn't seem great now, but it sounded like divine intervention to me. it's really a fantastic thing for your odds of reaching sustained recovery. it's our secrets that keep us sick and, as was aptly noted, you're secret's out now.
the best advice i received about getting clean was that meetings would be essential to my recovery. "they" told me to go to ninety meetings in ninety days, to get a sponsor and to work the Steps. i didn't think i really "needed to go that far" after my first rehab, but i was finally open to the idea in and after my second rehab. turns out that "they" were right
i haven't been a drinker for a long time, and all of my recent problems were with opiates and cocaine, but all of my meetings are AA -- in my mind, and to most people i know in recovery, it's all the same disease. I can see where going to NA might be a problem for someone in your profession, but not so for AA.
try to be Honest, Open and Willing . . . that's HOW we find and stay in recovery.
Look..If its going to work, go for it..There is no reason why you should suffer..The truth is the suffering of withdrawal doesnt stop most people from relapsing. If I had the money, I would do it too..But alas, I don't have all the money coming in that you so graciously pointed out to us several times specifically, lol..Who cares if its an "easy way out" ? We are people that like prefer the "easy way" thats why we are all addicted to instant gratification, and there isnt a damn thing wrong with that..Its acting on the impulse that gets us in trouble. You can do it and it will work. :)
According to my math, Boskey goes into the clinic tomorrow.. I wish him the best.
We all come from different backgrounds and live different lives. Money and talking about money can upset some people, I try to avoid the subject because of that. I know that it a problem of there own, but realize that we all have problems.. some which are important to others are not important to us, but they are still real.
Anyway.. I am looking forward to hearing form Boskey... Clean and sober .. with a fresh new look at life..
Well guys, I had the procedure on tuesday at like 730am or around about there. Lets just say I didn't remember much of Dr. Lowenstein talking to me before the procedure, just remember him asking about a town 45mins away from where I live then lights out. Ok from the beginning.
Arrived in Santa Ana on Saturday and did all the normal stuff sat/sun. Got picked up from the hotel and taken to the hospital at 830am on monday morning. At the hospital I had my last dose of percs and then they were taken away from me at which time I was put on a morphine drip to stay comfortable/stave off withdrawal. This worked 100% no w/d symptoms and the nurses were unbelievable, at your every whim no matter what your needed (hopefully names isn't a big deal but Christie and Lisa were the greatest, most caring people I ever met). I met with Dr. Lowenstein before around 8pm and he spoke with me about the procedure and any questions i had of him. It was kinda star stuck being that I have seen so many videos of these ppl. Kinda wanna go back and watch the videos now that i got a better understanding of the process.
I was then taken off the morphine drip at 4am on tuesday and was taken to the ICU (There was another patient that was doing this all with me however bc of patient rights i never met him until our first night at domus). A drug (cant think of the name) was administered to block the central nervous system which stops w/ds. At approx. 730am I was awoken by Dr. Lowensteins voice and he began to administer the Anastasia thru iv. Next thing i remember I woke up with nurse Tim who would be by my bedside for the remaindered of stay in the ICU, approx. 20hrs. These 20 Hrs were the worst, in and out of sleep and being bother by the nurse trying to take your blood pressure every hr. I know this was necessary but just seemed annoying. The worse w/d during this day was just having trouble sleeping and sneezing. No aches, no pains, no vomiting, no nausea, nothing of that short.
I was then transferred outta the ICU at approx. 4am on wed. I was told this would be the worst day, having it described as having your body being hit my a mack truck however i was also told that it could very well be a find day. All day long i was just anxious to get the iv's outta my arm and go relax at domus, a light headache was the only thing I had against me all day and its gone now. I haven't taken a percocet in 3 going on 4 days and haven't even thought about one. This has been one of the best experiences of my life and would recommend it to anyone.
Walking out of my hospital room i was met with another member of domus (shawn) who has went thru even worse and another guy (kim) whos road to recovery all went thru waisman. All have talked to me about their problems and all are free from their addiction. Shawn actually took the spot of that guy Corey something or over dosed a few weeks ago. And domus retreat, whole ****...they have everything at your finger tips.
To end this, until now I haven't thought about a Percocet in 3/4 days and i could never say that before in the last year and the only w/d was the slight headache which is gone and sneezing which i'll take any day of the week. Any questions feel free i know there has to be some.
Hey Kiddo~~Big hugs to you!! So glad you posted!! It sounds like everything went really well for you so far...
So,how do you feel generally? Tired? Fuzzy? Alert? Good appetite? Strong?
Just really curious and,of course,care about you. Sounds like you'd do it all again...
although you won't ever have to!!
I have to tell you: I admire you for sharing all of this part of your life. It may help many others in the future as they get on the forum and read old posts. But...have you been helped by posting on the forum? I hope so! You have friends here...
Keep posting as time goes on,okay? It's early in your process and I'm sure there'll be much to talk about. In the meantime,it sounds like you're in capable hands.
I've been wondering about you!! Glad to hear everything went well, I thought that would be so. Im so glad you had good dr. and nurses to help you through this. I hope this has been a great experience for you, and that you will continue to improve over the next days, weeks, etc...I missed you!
Please keep us posted. Im curious as to how you are feeling also. I hope great!!
Congratulations Boskey!! Glad to have you back :)
This is going to be a very person post, its an email i sent to my girlfriend back at home, however I feel like some of you are a distant family so i'm just going to copy n paste. Feel free to skim thru it bc it is long but describes a lot. Any questions feel free but let me start off buy saying 5 days going on 6 without opiates and I feel better then ever. I hope this read isn't too emotional but its from the heart.
Hey baby just wanted to send you a message to say that I have been thinking about you a lot, not just today but the past 5 days. Figured it was time to make you my friend on facebook just for the simple fact that you are sooo much more then a friend...your my best friend, my one and my only. I had so many emotions run through my mind today about you, me and the future and us being in that future. The past few months I have been so selfish with my dependency with the opiates, its really all I cared about and I realize it put a strain on every relationship that i have had in my life, ours especially. However I feel like this is my opportunity to correct all the wrongs that i have done with you and us in general. I need you to do me a favor....go to this link before you read on, it a song that made me think of you today and of us in general...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30dSB2HSlRw
Anyways baby i'm doing good, 5 days without anything and i seriously feel rejuvenated, if you put a percocet in front of me right now I would smash it with a hammer and walk away from it. It just feels so good to be the me that i really am. Everyone here from the other guys (Shawn aka Mooch) is a California kid who works for the government (40yoa) coming off of 20 80mg Oxys, and the Fentinal patch that he would put in his mouth and suck on it every 4 hrs, hes been on anything else you can think of for over 9 years as well. He just has a bright optimistic positive outlook on everything. He did a bedside detox, the exact opposite from what I did and I can even tell you how strong he had to be to do that, more credit to him. I love that he doesn't look at me any different because of the course he took and the one i took, i hear that stories of him in his bed in the hospital projectile vomiting, ripping out his IVs and even seeing things that weren't there and i just see him as such a strong person. I am learning a lot from him, hes like my big bro out here.
Ken is the 21 yr old who had a little problems just being down and not feeling good after the procedure, hes coming off of methadone, morphine and anything else you can think off since he was 14. A hell of a smart kid, he could seriously be a Dr. or Chemist if he wanted to, he has the wrold ahead of him if he takes everything seriously, i have a little doubt that hes going to make it after he goes home but he'll def have a support group in myself, shawn and kim.
Kim is around 50 yrs old coming off of 10 80mg oxycotin a day for the past 9years. He has the rapid detox like me, felt like **** the first day or 2 but is getting better as the days go by. Hes the father figure of the ground but still young at heart.
Its just so amazing that every walk of life can get addicted or dependent to opiates and its they look at it out here as more of a disease that is curable with medicine, and i'll tell you what i'm believing it every single day. I wake up at 8am not reaching for anything but instead jumping out of the bed to the day ahead of me, I love it, I'm myself again. No thoughts or craving for the drug at all, AT ALL. My mind is top notice as well. All my endorphins that were suppressed are starting to come back slowly but surly.
Talked to a therapist to he brought out some emotions that I didn't know that i had, from the death of my dad 2 years ago. To my grandfather, aunt and uncle all in the past 8 months. It was good to talk about things with him. I know its not the same as seeing him face to face but i have 6 phone sessions with him over the course of the next 6 weeks, first scheduled for Thusday, think thats going to help. He sees that I have a strong support ground around me at home, and even thinks that i would be fit for duty, he doesn't think I have a mental addiction but only the nervousness that if i didn't take the opiate i would withdrawal.
Anyways I miss you so much and wish I could talk to you, see you, kiss you and hold you. I love you baby...I will see you sooner then you think, monday isn't far away. Listen to that song again....Love always and forever....