Wake Up

I am sure most of you are not accustomed to receiving any negative energy on this site but I have some reflection from the other side of the fence regarding drug abuse. First, we all have incredible adversity and horrible events in our lives that sometime seem overwhelming. That being said, one must know that to choose, and it is a choice, to partake in drugs or alcohol irresponsibly and selfishly is just that- irresponsible and selfish. I won't bore any of you with my life story but I asure each of you that it is filled with more sorrow and pain than most would imagine. It is also filled with tremendous joy and for that I am thankful. I am grateful for every precious encounter I have with people I know and love and even complete strangers. I have witnessed many I have loved numb themselves with drugs and alcohol with no regard for anyone else's thoughts or emotions. I have heard them excuse deplorable behavior and choices, only to blame the substances themselves. What? Here I thought that drugs and alcohol were inanimate objects. Silly me. Please understand that no matter how you spin it, it is an outrageous act of indulgence. I have tried over the years to be compassionate and understanding and have ended up with absolutely nothing in return but more lies, deceit and dissapointment. For years, I have researched, played psychologist and DEA agent. I have shown love, patience, anger, threats, ultimatums but to no avail. Let us not be confused, the initial decision was a CHOICE. Nothing more, nothing less. Diagnosis still stands with me as an unexplainable selfishness that rivals narcissism.
Sorry to deflate the good times but I did say this was a wake up call...no?

[sadinmichigan]

You are absolutely correct. Thankyou

[bandnmom]

Well.....I dont think anyone here will disagree with you on the fact that it was a choice. Yes it was a choice to take that drink or pop those pills or do that line. Whatever, but i dont recall asking for your opinion on the matter either. We are here trying to better ourselves and support one another on something that yes we did to ourselves. It is a disease. Yes addiction is. So unless you are part of our community or have anything that is in the way of help or support i think you should take your comments elsewhere!! Yes everyone is entitled to there opinions but unless this is going to benefit anyone here i see this post as you being unhappy and trying to bring everyone down with you.
Thank you!!

[GoingToMakeIt]

I am not sure if you will get much of an argument here. What we try to do here is help each other get back onto the right road. The true wake-up call is when you realize that you are an addict and need to change you ways and habits. I don't see too much about good times here. This is about abuse and what it does to yourself and to those around you.

[girly44]

i agree with bandnmom. i think you need an al-non meeting. don't beat down people who are already beaten down. new comers don't need to hear this ****, they need support to get off and help themselves. it is a disease, and i have lived my whole life around this problem, and you wouldn't sat hear and say these things to a cancer patient, we are no different. it is a chemical imbalance in our brains, and we are trying to over come this. take your post to al-non and express it there. i think you will learn alot........

[FriaryGrad]

I think you've figured out something that some family members and friends never do: When it comes to our additions, all along the choice to use drugs or drink was OUR choice.  You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it. The official text of Alcoholics Anonymous makes the exact same point you make: Alcoholics and addicts are extremely selfish; they say it is "self-will run riot."  The book that becomes the Bible to recovering addicts repeatedly tells us how selfish we've been, how we've harmed so many people in our lives, and that we have to make amends to those people. Did you know that?  Those trying to recover are told to take a fearless and searching moral inventory, acknowledging everyone we have wronged, and being willing to make amends to those people. So while everything you wrote is totally true, what isn't true is that we haven't ever heard it before. We've not only heard it, if we want to get clean and sober and stay that way, we have to agree with it.  Forget tough things happening in life, an addict will use drugs because he's happy, or use drugs because he's upset. Or because it's raining, or because it's not raining.  These are excuses that we've all used, but that's all they are -- excuses.  Many of us need help to stop drinking or using drugs once we've flipped our addiction switch, because we've caused chemical changes in our brains, and need them rewired.  But yes, it was a choice at one time, not an addiction. Once we're addicted, we have the choice to get help or keep drinking or using drugs. I'm happy for you that you're not an addict or alcoholic; it isn't a fun thing to be.  But it is possible to recover from addiction, and lead a wonderful life. Which I hope you're doing........  :>)

[sadinmichigan]

oh by the way..don't be so sure your adversity is to be topped. That statement says alot but then again you don't want to hear where I have been either...I'm also not blaming my addiction because I was raped by an old man when i was 10, or beaten by a mother who hated children..and......whatever else..dead loved ones, suicide, sexual abuse by family...nah....it's not important..

[lady67]

It is a choice, but sometimes the consequences of this choice is not explained to us.  For example, the people like myself who became addicted after an accidents, surgery, etc.  I know for a fact that my doctor encourage me to take something for the pain and at every check up he continued to give me a script for more.  Not once did he tell me about the possibility of addiction from taking the meds.  At that time, I had NEVER taken pain meds and I didn't know anyone who was addicted to them to get advice from.  I followed doctors orders and before I knew it I was physically and mentally addicted.

[GoingToMakeIt]

I am not sure if you have been really hurt by being close to an addict, but it sounds like maybe so. If you are still around this, I encourage you to stick around. There are others here because their friends or family are addicts, yet they are not. choice or not. Once someone is an addict or an alcoholic. Their body and brain chemistry are truly altered. It may take years or maybe never to get full restoration. so come on in and be a part of the solution.

[worried878]

or maybe u did not word it right....addiction is a disease with a choice  but many others are a disease with a choice as well..a diabetic who does ot follow guidellines and has icecream each night..bad cloice but she still made it and will suffer it the long rum for not having tight control on her disease process  ...liver disease and drinks vodka..heart condition but chooses to say in a stressful marriage that will kill her delicate heartl  or a business owner with a high blood pressure verging stroke but wont hand his responsbilities to his assistant and dies of a cerbrovascular accident in his sleep...not all addicts chose their pain problem...narcs helped,,so they are guilty of choosing to try and lessen pain and became addicted,,,not on purpose...havent seen anyone ot there hoping they can have a fusion to get messed up and get narcs.....it is afflicted upon us and is our burden to carry like diabetes or heart disease..we can choose to stop the pills and live in pain...and most here have done or are doing that,i never blamed it on my doc or my pills,,,i blamed it on my pain and myself

[addictedme]

Your eliminating those that started on the advice of a dr and ended up dependant and those that are prone to addiction from early life core issues or some even say it can be inherited. Its been proven that someone with a family history of substance abuse is more prone to become addicted. At some point it does become a choice just like smoking,overeating,gambling, etc. Its called the disease of addiction. We also have a choice to be or not to be judgemental,rude,cruel,etc and I"m sure theres alot of names for that to. You should have read more posts and you would see that very few people in here blame drugs for their actions as apparently your friends and family do. Maybe you should have spent those years learning about addiction rather then playing dea agent.

[dominosarah]

You sound very angry and for that i feel bad for you.  We are here working on our addiction, trying to get our lives back, to mend relationships we have destroyed and working on anger issues that keep us from achieving our goals.  Good times??  I hardly think so.  Before you judge any of us please do your homework and find out where we came from.  You wouldnt like walking in some of our shoes.               sara

[marcatj]

hun, i'm so sorry you've been hurt by addiction... no one should be.

yes, the initial choice to use is for sure our own.

but some - not others - but some have a chemical/psychological/physiological predisposition towards addiction.

as well, many have become addicted because of chronic pain. and were put on narcotics to alleviate that pain, and hence, became addicted.  not by choice.

so surely, you cannot judge that.

it IS an addicts responsibility to get help, once addicted.  especially if they are effecting the lives of others...

that said, it is always good not to judge your brother until you've walked a mile in their shoes.

this does not, in any way, absolve ANYONE from the damage they have caused. once they know they have a problem...

good luck to you. and i'm sorry for what you have been through.

be well,
mj

[marcatj]

btw - i do think some al anon meetings, from what i understand of them, may help you.

you can't really change anyone.  only yourself.  and at the end of the day, the feelings you are feeling can only be dealt with on your own.. and i imagine it would feel better to get past them at some point.

again - good luck to you...

[wannabefree330]

Well, I can say for myself that Its nice to hear the perspective of someone who has had their life changed by drugs.  Guess what?  You're not alone.  Our lives have changed too!  I'm sorry, but you sound like you enjoy playing the victim here.  If you would have done some research on the disease itself, how it totally changes all those involved, you would have realized that addiction is EXACTLY what you describe.  We know how it affects all around us.  When we are in the midst of our using, we go to any length to numb our guilt.  And we don't care who we hurt.  Its true, as you can see, everyone here agrees w/you.  The difference is, we don't allow ourselves to play the victim anymore.  We own the wrongs we have done, and in time we all make amends for those wrongs.

What you fail to mention is the fact that YOU have to own your side of this coin my friend.  That being the enabling you did to allow such things to continue-not for the person-for you.  Allowing these feelings and control to continue.  If the person in your life CHOSE not to quit, well then YOU CHOSE to stay.  You made a choice as well to 'play DEA agent', you chose to 'play psychologist', you chose to stick around and be compassionate, understanding, be hurt, be angry...see, these are all choices that YOU made.  You have no one to blame for that but yourself, just as we have no one to blame for using but ourselves.  Are you more angry at the person you love, or at yourself for failed attempts to control the outcome?  We take ownership of our wrongs, and don't play the victim of circumstances we created in our lives.  How long will you continue to play the victim and be miserable and angry, and hurt?  You need to forgive your loved one, yourself, and the disease.....not for anyone else,  BUT FOR YOU!!!  It will be a long, lonely, isolated road if you don't.  Try Alanon if you havent already.  Again, thank you for pointing out to us what we have known all along.
Give yourself permission to let go of what you cannot control.  Learn to change what you can....that is YOUR REACTION to your surroundings.

[scaredmom330]

Sorry I have to agree with Bandmom, no I am not an addict but my son is and I came here for help and friendship which both I have received, I learned through my friends here, that I am a victim of my son's addict and I have to let him hit bottom and ask for help. You don't know the load this took off my heart and shoulders, don't get me wrong I love my son and would give my life for him but HERE I have learned to accept this is his problem and until he truly needs my help I can't do anything but pray for him and be supportive. I stay here because I try to help others and I can't take any negativity ether, I don't think this is the place for it...just my thoughts. and love to all my friends and future friends here.

[D30]

I am not exactly sure on why you decided to post what you have. We all know exactly, 100% what you are saying that is why we are here. Basically you have told everyone that this is a loosing battle when you say you have acted only to see lies. This is your own words. "Please understand that no matter how you spin it, it is an outrageous act of indulgence. I have tried over the years to be compassionate and understanding and have ended up with absolutely nothing in return but more lies, deceit and disappointment. For years, I have researched, played psychologist and DEA agent. I have shown love, patience, anger, threats, and ultimatums but to no avail"

I am not giving up because you fill lied to. I hope no-one else does either who has relapsed and is trying to help themselves.

I bet your stories of sorrow that you have are no where near what some of us have witnessed and been a part of. I can't speak for everyone, but I witnessed abuse of my mother, drug use alcohol abuse ect..I had my TV thrown out windows because my father was beating my mom and I threatened to whip his *** if he didn't stop. There are so many instances like this in my childhood. DID I HAVE A CHOICE??? I AM NOT SURE.

It was later in life I witnessed both my parents overdose on prescription drugs. Is it really my choice or is it all I have known????

[sadinmichigan]

as i stated in your other post..I am thinking it is your approach that isn't working for you.Ultimatums almost never work,idle threats and the like...You CHOSE to surround yourself with this..you had a CHOICE to walk away and let those addicts in your life come to terms with their addiction on their own and seek help for themselves, which is what is necessary to succeed..good luck to you

[10356]

The frustration and anger are evident in your post... Everybody above has spoken well for themselves. I would just like too add Get help for your anger issues so that you can move on with your life.. You have played so many rolls when was the last time you were just yourself.. I carried anger for a very long time all it does is destroy everything it comes in contact with.. I wish you well in that you find happiness and peace..  lesa

[joann1975]

Well...here is my 2 cents... this person/woman just came on here to vent and beat us down w/o knowing ANYTHING about us truly b/c we are all here for help and we are mostly all getting clean or already clean and maintaining or want to be clean and trying to achieve it....this isn't a party website where we are all loaded & having fun. No, need in comparing tragedies...everyone has them...to each of us they are horrible.

So what I want to say....is we don't NEED or WANT your negative energy...we are trying healing right now or trying to...I certainly hope you don't approach your boyfriend this way b/c you will just either drive him deeper into his addiction or run him off totally.

[cgmomma]

What I don't understand is how YOU can come here, to us ADDICTS, and ask for help and support, but then try to beat us all down??  If you want help, this is the place to be, if you want to do nothing but tell us how horrible YOU have it and try to make all of us feel bad about ourselves, then get the hell off the forum.  You are not the only one here, believe me, that has had a life full of misery and sorrow.  You want to talk about being selfish, your life has been "so bad", so your going to come here and tell everyone about it and tell us that WE ARE selfish and then ask for help.  YOU ARE the selfish one.  You need to open your eyes, and like joanne said, I wouldn't talk to your boyfriend like you are to us because I guarantee that you won't have one afterwards.

[Soon2BMrsTurner]

I can understand  being mad at an addict and feeling that they are selfish. WE ARE SELFISH but not because we want to hurt the ones that we love and love us . We become selfish because  the drugs whatever they may be make us that way. People change when on any substance. Coming here and beating us down doesnt help you or anyone else, Just beats a dead horse so to speak because we live with the aftermath everyday of how we changed and treated the ones around us so bad. Please remember that it is a Disease and not always so much of a oh I just dont care about anyone im going to hurt them. Some people grow up in a life where thats all that they know . My father drank my mother took pills and as bad as it is that was normal to me. So sometimes maybe you need to know the person before you treat them like a junkie because thats not always true . Please find some way to let that anger out . Mettings, or someone that you do trust, its not healthy to be an addict and its not helathy to live in such anger either. Good luck to you but i have a big fight ahead of me and I cant do it being beaten down along the way. Im sorry that your life is bad right now and hope that you find something that can help you.

[bandnmom]

its nice to see i am not the only one that this offended. After i commented i thought to myself..i hope i didnt take it the wrong way cuz im having a terrible night. But as i read, i know i was right. What got me p****d is that i have so much negativity in my life right now, so when i came to one of the only places that i dont feel judged and then see that..thats what did it to me. then she posts this and never even comes back to defend herself! whatever..she obviously read and knew that she was the one in the wrong!
I think our little family did great here. we all stuck up for ourselves but most
importantly..one another. I am glad i have all of you on my side.    :)

[10356]

Please when referring to a Junkie we are no worse then anybody else We just live with a bigger Stigma I would hope we are not looked at as the scum of the forum...lesa

[122 Tactical Fighter Group]

I would be most curious to hear what you perceive to be a life of adversity - you ever buried an infant son? How about going to a real shooting war where people die around you daily - and you are never safe? And how about three years in a Federal Prison that was worse than the war? Thats what happens when people "play" DEA agent. Throw in several incidents from car, boat, and parachute crashes that totally trash a persons back and spine. Add a years chemo therapy and a failing liver. Maybe you need some time in the reality of the whole world and not some protected corner of it where you can safely judge others ineffectively......go back to school if you have been there.

[FriaryGrad]

Please don't go away; stay here and join us and we can learn from each other. I would truly like to hear back from you, and wonder if you might have any questions we could answer.  You wouldn't get a homogeneous reaction but you'd get a range of opinion that might show you that your friend's and family's take on the use of drugs (including alcohol) is only one viewpoint.  Stay in touch, and I wish you the best..

[lady67]

Guys,
Have you noticed this person has not responded to any of our replies to the post he/she made?  This is what I call a "hit and run" post.  I don't know if they made the post and are scared to come back or what.  They may have made the post just to see if they could get a rise out of us.  Either way, I think we need to resume our friendly, family forum and let this person tend to their own problems.

[NautyOne]

I think it was a lovely post--perspective from the other side, and the person has a right to be angry and vent just as we do.  I don't know if I buy just yet that addiction is a legit disease, but I don't discount it either.  I didn't see anything to get one's panties in a ruffle.  I think the post was pretty well sugarcoated and could have been a lot more direct, negative, and, or abrasive......I think it was well said, and should be taken as a welcome along with any other post.

Thank you, Poster.  you must have done something right to strike so many nerves.  And, thank you for the perspective on the other side.  That is what the addict does.  If in fact it is a disease......Narcissism plays a primary role......like it or not guys.......

luv,
Nauty............

[lady67]

I understand the point the poster was trying to make, but silly me, I thought this forum was to offer support.....Not tear people down.  I accept fully the horrible things I put my family through, but how in the world can people move ahead when others are pouring salt in an open wound?  The very statement at the beginning of this page states:

     "This community is a place to share information and support with others who are trying to stop using drugs, prescription drugs, alcohol, tobacco or other addictive substances. Discuss with others, the symptoms of addiction, addiction recovery, ways to quit".

I am sure I am going to get slammed by some of the members here, but hey if they can post their opinion, I CAN TOO!!!

[addict3]

Quite possibly a Friday nite some kid was crusing the net and ran across this site, and thought it might be funny to screw around with folks Trying to get a rise out of some of us.
I do beleive that for whatever reason it did make some of us stop and think (me included).
Turn Lemons into lemonaide.
And if we do get a legit response back maybe it worked the other way around.
JMO

[puranx]

gotta agree 100% then again i never hurt anyone but myself thankfully

[GoingToMakeIt]

I am proud of how all here have handled this post. Good Job!

[NautyOne]

Thank you , hun......My prayers are with you as they are for everyone EvERyDay ..<3

Luv,
Nauty...........

[ochooked]

Wow!!! this post really generated some comments on both sides.  My take is that Sab is using this site as a platform to preach down to those who have admitted they have a problem - -not the same one or ones who hurt him/her.   However, for the most part - it seems to me that he/she did not generate the hostility one would expect from such a condescending attitude.  Also seems that Sab still has a long way to go learning to forgive those who have done hurt to him/her.  Hope he finds what he needs.

[neverb4addicted]

Well now that was interesting reading I must say..come on cuz of a bad day and read all that..wow....
To the poster..It is quite apparent you have been hurt by an addict in your life..the excuses and the hurt that an addict does I am learning is all part of the disease..what you need to realize is you are beating the ones down that have already realized that this is what they do... People on this site are well aware of who they hurt, where they stole from, and how their problem started.. there are two side to this fence..the ones that realize the problem and are trying to fix it and the ones that are still using and wont admit there is even a problem..is this the right side of the fence to beat down so they jump back to the other side and use ... You would look wouldnt you if you just caused somebody already at the lowest spot in their life to go back to using cuz it isnt changing anybodys oppinion of them..these people are here to help..I realize its very hard on an addicts family ect..no doubt in my mind..but we are going through hell trying to fix it so we dont hurt our families and loved ones anymore..
Just my thoughts on the whole thing..
Neverb4
I do feel bad as I can tell the original poster has been wronged and is very angry at an addict of some sort.. addiction takes control and takes our choices away..it isnt as easy as just choices once your truly an addict..trust me I am one...!!!!!!!!

[addictedme]

If it makes the poster feel any better theres a saying in na " in our addiction we hurt many people but most of all we hurt ourselves"

[NautyOne]

We all need to vent sometimes and that's the beauty of this forum.....its just a little foreign to us to read the other side of addiction....the hurt.  We are all trying to heal as does she.  Maybe this platform and all the responses here will help her in the healing process.  I think this post was a needed welcome call to this forum, and as GTMI said.....It could have got out-of-hand, but it didn't because she really expressed herself pretty well, I didn't see anything condescending at all......she is a victim, and many of have left that same trail.  So don't be so easy to judge the OTher Side Of AddiCtion.

I wish you the best Sab80.  I don't know your story, but I hope you find PEACE and HEALING thru the HURT.

God Bless,
Nauty........

PS......If you ever need to talk.....Message Me ANYTIME !!

[D30]

hey i don't know about you guys I am happy I am 3 days clean right now.

[FriaryGrad]

I think I heard in rehab that addiction (drugs and alcohol are all the same, to our brains) fits the "disease model" in its onset, progression, and treatment.  It's sort of a distinction without a difference whether or not it "is" a disease.  Someone else that went to rehab, help me out here....isn't that how they explain it?  Can we put that issue to rest now??

[cattalina]

When I first read that post my inital reaction probably made me look the incredible hulk.  (RaRR!! Gurrr!!)  When I read it the second time, I thought of how my mother probably felt all those years I couldn't get clean. I don't think the poster was intentionally trying to be mean or look down on us.  The venom in that post born from hurt and diappointment - not righteouness.  It strikes a cord in us because of what we have gone through.  We don't have to agree with someone else's hurt, just like they don't have to agree with ours.  Redirect your anger into something positive: Reading that post has inspired me to call the people I love and tell them how much they mean to me.  Hopefully it will for others too.  :))  
Be proud of where you are today and don't let anyone take that away from you!!  
-sending hugs to everyone  :)

[cattalina]

Addiction is a neurologically based disease. For many years recovery specialists have compared alcoholism or addictions to a physical disease: like diabetes.  In reality addictions are more closely related to a neurological disorder like Tourette's Syndrome* than they are to diabetes.

If the problems you suffer stem from severe alcoholism or addiction, you must accept that these problems are not primarily mental or free will issues. Addictions are not about will power. The problems facing addicts, alcoholics, and their families are miserable, disgusting, and infuriating. They are often hopelessly discouraging. But to imagine that an addict "could change if he wanted to" is a serious misunderstanding of the long term dynamic of addictive disorder. The fact is precisely that an addict cannot change in the long run even if he wants to! That is the definition of addiction: "the loss of control over the use of a substance." It is important to understand that this loss of control is manifested not in terms of days or weeks, but in longer term behaviors: terms of months and years.

The reason addicts have lost control is because they have suffered permanent physical neurological changes based in their brains and nervous systems. The disorder manifests in long term obsessive-compulsive behaviors outside the realm of the addicts own control. It is true enough that the use of chemicals begins with chosen behavior. But if alcoholism or addiction develops, the problem has moved outside the realm of free choice. It has developed into a long term mental and physical neurological disorder. All the emotional 'feelings' involved in drug or alcohol seeking are based in neurology. Addiction is based in physical dependency created by altered neurotransmitter balances, and driven by millions upon millions of new living, functioning active neurological pathways which have been established to sustain the condition in the addicts brain. The new neurological pathways are permanently established, and they will not just disappear. The primary neurological disorder is only complicated by physical dependence on the substances. The physical dependence on the substances is secondary!  Physical drug withdrawal does not change the underlying neurological addictive disorder. After drug withdrawal, long term overpowering cravings are predictable. These cravings are, in reality, spontaneous nerve impulses. Even in the longer term, overwhelming cravings are outside the addicts control.

I don't know if that helps with the "addiction is not a disease" issue....

[js222]

Well, I thought I had posted an appropriate defense of the members here in response to sab805's negativity, but I see it's been removed.  I do apologize to the moderators if my tone was perceived to be harsh, but I did not use profanity or inappropriate language, and was imply trying to show support to other members.  I simply feel sab805's post was aboslutely inappropriate for the positive environment being fostered here.
js

[js222]

I am sure most of you are not accustomed to receiving any negative energy on this site but I have some reflection from the other side of the fence regarding drug abuse. First, we all have incredible adversity and horrible events in our lives that sometime seem overwhelming. That being said, one must know that to choose, and it is a choice, to partake in drugs or alcohol irresponsibly and selfishly is just that- irresponsible and selfish. I won't bore any of you with my life story but I asure each of you that it is filled with more sorrow and pain than most would imagine. It is also filled with tremendous joy and for that I am thankful. I am grateful for every precious encounter I have with people I know and love and even complete strangers. I have witnessed many I have loved numb themselves with drugs and alcohol with no regard for anyone else's thoughts or emotions. I have heard them excuse deplorable behavior and choices, only to blame the substances themselves. What? Here I thought that drugs and alcohol were inanimate objects. Silly me. Please understand that no matter how you spin it, it is an outrageous act of indulgence. I have tried over the years to be compassionate and understanding and have ended up with absolutely nothing in return but more lies, deceit and dissapointment. For years, I have researched, played psychologist and DEA agent. I have shown love, patience, anger, threats, ultimatums but to no avail. Let us not be confused, the initial decision was a CHOICE. Nothing more, nothing less. Diagnosis still stands with me as an unexplainable selfishness that rivals narcissism.
Sorry to deflate the good times but I did say this was a wake up call...no?


To sab805, I think the main contention I have with your original post is your attempt to simplify a very complex issue.  I'm fairly sure I would be correct in presuming that you are 'speaking' from the perspective of an observer (non-user) who, perhaps, cannot understand, first hand, the myriad of reasons and motivations that dictate a user's drift into abuse and addiction.  I think "cattalina" explains very well certain aspects that I would recommend be read by you before you attempt to make the unfortunate reality of abuse something that is as simple as saying 'yes' or 'no' when it comes to using.  All people struggle with issues in their life, and most often this struggle regards doing the right thing, and what that right thing is.  While using and/or abusing drugs or alcohol may seem to some to be nothing more than an irresponsible choice, made in a selfish manner, in fact the choice to use is most often motivated by extremely negative experiences which drive a person to, in essence, reach for what they perceive to be happiness.  Perhaps an extensive search into all sides of an addicts motivation would be appropriate before simplifying these motivations as an irresponsible, easily avoidable choice?  And, the only advice I would give regarding the disappointment you have experienced in the past when attempting to show patience and love, is this -- Keep it up.  If your motivation remains true, and comes from the heart, continuing this patience and love remains the only pure act within a surely difficult situation.  God bless -js

[GoingToMakeIt]

sab805 has another post where her boyfriend is maybe relapsed. I am pretty sure she is confused by all of this. I sure would like us to see what we can do to help her cope and understand addiction. If you think about it, addiction is extremely hard to understand if you haven't gone down that road yourself. Lets not read too much into her post here. Just as she isn't walking in our shoes, we are not walking in hers.

    sab805 if you need to chat and don't feel comfortable doing it here. Please send me a PM (private message)

[Coolio Hernendez]

Get it out.....Say what you have to....You are correct....It helped a little to read that.....

But to you i say....Good day sir........I said GOOD DAY.......

[got2bfree]

To Sab

Please stick around and you may finally become educated on the realites of hte addicteds life....the first, second, third or maybe even twentieth time it was a choice after that subtle changes are happening, both mentally and physically as the soil was being prepared  to snag the person into full blown addicition.....The choice soon gives over to need....a need so powerful that we do things, say things anything to get that drug, not so much to even get high, but to ward off withdrawal.....yes the casaulties are high....we are aware of this, but for a long time months, years, each is different but and unfortunately many have to hit bottom, we are helpless to change...if it was a choice why do only 5% recover....do you think 95% would choose death......no ....stick around and maybe you can turn that anger, into useful energy to really help.

To SoonTBMrsTurner
I hope what you said "treat us like junkies" was just a slip, a non thought out statement....if not that is bringing in the caste system.....We are all in this disease together,,,no matter the drug, dose, method, time,......we are all the same, deep down inside....we needed that drug/drink....I think it would be great to thow that name right out the window....None of us are junk.....just sick people, wanting more than anything to find our means of getting well, and a bunch of support from a great group of loving, like minded people....I think your post could have hurt some people.....and I don't think that was your intention.

To NautyOne
I can honestly say I was startled by your comment....doubting the authenticity of addiciton being a bonafide illness is like saying depresssion is just in your mind.....I'm so glad that society is being educated,  and we have finally reached a good measure of  understanding.  The fact that when a person crosses that line between justified use with prescription meds or use of street drugs, into addiction, real, though subtle at first, changes are happeing in the mind, chemical imbalances are forming, brain receptors are increasing, a very real scientifically proven change has taken place, and to turn back becomes an almost impossible task......I'm grateful to the field of medicine that they don't hold that view, or research dollars into new treatments, though still on the cutting edge, may not be available.....  Perhaps you were just poking at coals, trying to spark a fire.....but I think all of us here who openly admit to being caught by addiction, are getting a wee bit tired of having to defend the position of it being an illness.....I am ill....simple, and I need good treatment,,,and love and support from others.....

this is a great place!  I am grateful to be getting to know the brave souls here, and I look forward to my recovery and that of others, and to share the joy of those who are well on their way to a brand new life..... I know my plan now, thanks to many here, and science for developing a treatment that could very well work for me, and many others.....

WE ARE WARRIORS

Deb

[Coolio Hernendez]

Great post Got2be free....

[GoingToMakeIt]

sab I just read your apology on your other post. Please stick around. Things will settle down when others realize that you are struggling to understand too.

[GoingToMakeIt]

I sent you a message. Look in the upper corner for Inbox and click on it.

[LateAugust]

For me, the mother of an addict, I find the original  post full of anger, and quite honestly my first reaction was to respond directly with how inapproriate I found the self righteous diatribe.   I guess out of defense of my daughter, maybe because of the connections I have be so very blessed here to make and to protect them.   To protect,the "addicts" that are fighting a daily battle, yet take the time to offer me words of encouragement, truly an act of kindness and selfless consideration.

And then I realized how different we all are, how addictions impact the user, the loved ones, so many lives,  and everyone responds to this , what I consider to be a life and death situation  in very different ways.  

I read anger in your post.  I feel sorrow,  anger at the oxy, but the heartache is much stronger for the pain and devastation it has caused  first and foremost, to my beautiful child.   I guess as a parent our needs wants  or feelings are always secondary to our children.   And tho she may be an addict, as any mother, I put her life above mine.  Because it is instinct,  because I want to.

Just as you, I am different.  Yes, I attend al-anon,  but no, I won't let her hit "rock bottom",   enabling or is it love,  the continuing saga,  yet a very personal  decision.  I will do everything in my power not to lose my daughter to drugs, and as much as I absolutely hate the drug, for me and for her, I don't have room in my mind or my soul for another destructive emotion,  and for me, anger is non-productive. But, that is me, and I respect that is not how another will or may respond to addiction.    Just as I ask others not to judge me or my life.


I wish for you in  your pain, some solace, and only you know where you can find enough, just to get thru one more day.

[GoingToMakeIt]

Thanks for those words. I don't think she is lashing out at addicts. She is confused and frustrated by all of this, and yes, angry. I want us to reach out to her so she can get the answers and help she desires. This has got to be one hard thing to deal with and to understand, not being there herself.
We all need to give her encouragement and help her to have the insight she needs to help her boyfriend.

[LateAugust]

I'm sorry, my intent was only to say we are all different, we all respond differently, and the need for all of us, addict or not,  is to respect those differences.   I apologize if my primary theme was lost, by my writing.      I write from my heart, and share in complete thoughts, sometimes my message is lost in too many words written.  

Sab, I hope you didn't take my posting as judgemental, more of an initial reaction when I first read your post and then,  logic made me realize  how much we are alike  in our differences.  Oxymoron?  No, I think you know what I mean.   If you ever want to talk   please message me.

[GoingToMakeIt]

My other part of the post was to all of us. I thought you spoke quite well.

[cattalina]

We should absolutely reach out to ANYONE who needs help.  This is a lesson in patience and tolerance for all of us...  Patience to not pass judgement on others as we do not want it done to us; and tolerance for hearing what we may not agree with, but need to hear.  There are many sides to addiction and what she's going through is a reality for her - just as ours was and is for us.  Everyone experiences many different emotions when dealing with addiction...  

[122 Tactical Fighter Group]

Apparently sab pushed a button on me that went right off. I am glad to see that sab has posted again and seems to be making a genuine attempt to understand.....you folks that kept it together to answer intelligently are a credit to the forum (& addicts!) ...way to go!!

[cathy5841]

what a heartfelt response you offered.  very good post.

[joann1975]

I do hope you stick around...I hope I did not offend you in any way...I know as an addict I personally tend to be on the defense...I forget what the spouse/family/friend feels... b/c it does affect everyone!

This place is great and full of support....hopefully you will come to see that soon!

Everyone...I do agree w/GTMI...she is dealing w/emotions just as we were when many of us found this place in the process of being in wds or hitting our own rock bottom... we have all said things that have been taken out of context... I think we should all reach out to her and help her heal as well!

JoAnn

[NautyOne]

Well call me Ignorant, but just because a drug changes the brain chemistry, what in that constitutes a disease?.....I'm working on it, and apparently I am not a educated as you, but I just don't know or I question it......i don't trust the medical profession.  I don't ever remember growing up and seeing the heroin or coke addict ....being told they had a disease.....they were junkies and druggies, frowned upon by society, and pushed aside and looked the other way......

Well, now we are in the day of Prescription drug Era......So, how does the Medical Profession get there A$$es out of this one, smelling like a rose?  They managed to do it quite well......All of a sudden--the drug companies are making a killing--no pun intended--and the Doctors and their Kick-backs getting people strung out.....OH, what do we do to cover our butts.......yes....call it a disease.  Much prettier than than a dope head, or junkie......its now  addiction=addict....doesn't that look a whole lot nicer for them.

Sorry, I am just not ready to accept that.  I stated that I don't discount it either.  I respect your opinion,  if you choose to disagree, i agree.

Gracias,
nauty.............

[Soon2BMrsTurner]

When I was growing up I was told that people who are under a bridge that care nothing about life or anything in it were junkies. I am an addict also and I think that I also stated that wasnt the case here . Some people look as addicts as people under a bridge who care about nothing but drugs and thats not the case. Im sorry if it came out wrong but I never called anyone here a junkie and if thats the way it was taken then maybe some need to read it again or learn to get down the guard a little . Once again im sorry I do know however that I dont want to come to a place where I have to step on eggshells

[GoingToMakeIt]

I think today has been a bit 'edgy' here. some days are like that. It wasn't you.

[Soon2BMrsTurner]

Thank you ,
Im sure that everyone has days like that sometimes. We all get angry and on edge. Thank you for the kids words

[NautyOne]

Oh, boy....me and my Verbal Bull in a China Shop.  If you think I was referring to you.  I was not.  I was making a statement thats all.  Buuuuuuuttt now that you brought it up, My statement was kinda directed towards Got2beFree.....


Disclaimer:
*the statements made by nautyone and her verbal disasters are not a reflection of med-help or its users...**

[avisg]

First off sab good post .Sometimes the things we need to hear the most  are the hardest to hear .

I am not going to debate whether addiction is a diseases or not . I will say this it is very easy if you are not careful to use the "ohhhhh its a disease " as a cop out .I chose to put all of the  pills in my mouth. I have chosen to get clean but I can tell you my usage hurt a lot of people .
Avis

[scaredmom330]

maybe I should say I am sorry for my response, I guess I immediately went on the defense here. I am also a parent of an addicted child, it's hard but you take one day at a time and pray for them daily...if you need to talk, I am here for you...you are definitely hurting and need to talk.

God Bless
Karen

[Soon2BMrsTurner]

I was also replying to G2BF when I posted I saw where you had my name up and it wasnt anything that you said or did it wasnt directed to you at all . I made a post and used a word that I guess I shouldnt have no matter how you use it and was trying to explain that is all =)

[GoingToMakeIt]

     AS hard as it is to not answer posts emotionally. We really need to consider the person who is posting. What are they feeling? What are they really trying to say? What would I do in this situation? I know we are all guilty of answering way too quickly. I have all too many times.
    I still say we have the best group of members here, with hearts of gold. All of us here want to help anyone in need of help, addict or not.

[got2bfree]

Disease.....is anything that runs contrary to the normal healthy functioning of the body, or mind.  Just because society called them druggies or whatever, because they didn't know the cause of what made them take harmful substances into their bodies, is keeping it pretty narrow in my mind....thank goodness there is more understanding now, so the problem can be treated....diseases always present symptoms before they are understood and named....

The Field of Medicine runs far greater than the pharmaceutical companies....and that is what I said.....You bet I've got a beef with the  doctor pill pushers....thats how I landed with a 5 year now, addiction to prescription morphine.   When I took my first several bottles of these pills following surgery due to an injury did i know what I as headed into NO....then one day it went from taking the pill for pain of hte injury to taking the pill because I could not stop myself... I know if I stop it suddenly my body will contort with sickness, now if that is not   dis-ease     I don't know what is......that I have to put a pill in my mouth to stop it, is for that to stop it, or prevent it ......I'm screwed...but thankfully those good folk in the Field of Medicine who understand brain chemistry don't look down on the addicat as an unworthy cause, are studying the cause and effect and  are begining to present real viable options to treat this illness and bring a person back to health.....for that I am grateful.

Deb

[md1johnson]

We all are people with feelings no matter what our vices are. And we all have one or two if you think you don't you're fooling yourself. What the people that are responding in a negative way need to understand is there is a way to help people and there is a way to make matters worse. This is a help forum and not a place to preach. Also there are people who don't start taking "pills" by choice. If you have ever been a victim of a traumatic accident you can find yourself addicted before you know it. My point is there are many reasons but we all need understanding to get on the road of being pill are even alcohol free. And understanding does not mean you agree with what they are doing to themself but, that you have it in you to listen and be here when people need to talk. And I'm sure your comments didn't help anyone but maybe yourself.