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Weaning off Percocet after 3+ yrs of daily use

Day 9  (Sat)
Well, made it thru another day without cheating and also taking vicodins too!  I slept last night without a sleep aid.  My pain level is doable (5-6) this AM.  I intend to stick with the new plan…

Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:34 AM
Subject: RE: HEY HOW YOU DOING????

To be honest, the 6 hour intervals waiting between pills was making me absolutely nuts (it was all I thought about)...  So, a couple of days ago I jumped ahead to what the doc intends to do next week anyway, and have been cutting the pills in half, but taking them more often...  In other words, I'm only taking 5 mg, 4-5 times a day, so still only taking the 30 mg per day as he prescribed...  < May not have been the best the idea, but I didn't know what else to do...  (So, I take a 5 mg at 9AM, 5 mg at Noon, 5 mg at 3PM, 5 mg at 6PM, and 10 mg at 9PM).  The mental habit is the worse part of this!  Of course, it's not helping the pain as much only taking 5 mg, but eventually I wont have any pills, so I'd better get use to it.  

It's scary thinking about what I'll be like when that day comes without pills...  Not sure what/how to handle the psychological addiction part that I didn't think I'd have, but apparently do... Rehab is not an option, no Insurance + I cannot leave the dog for weeks even IF there was some facility that is gov assisted, nor do I want to go to one of those places for heroin addicts or whatever...  I'm hoping that as the doc cuts backs the amount of pills per day, that it will get easier - the mental addiction, because it will be gradual...  Not sure how I can have an addiction to something I don't even knowingly get a buzz off of??  Very scary & depressing.  
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Avatar universal
Today is day 4 for me,( cold turkey) after talking about 170-200 Perks and or Vik's a month 120 were giving to me from my DR. last niight was the  first night I sleep some about 5 hrs.Ive been taking 200 mg of vit. c and 500 mg of vit,e anlong with a multi vit.I also been drinking porten drinks (boost) This morning I work up wiyh some energy feeling pretty good,As far as my pain I feel its easer to deal with that then the worry and lies I had to tell to get what i needed off the st.I dont know if Anyone should do this this way but just wanted to share
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1831920 tn?1320857757
A spreadsheet with your pill intake?  You are definitely type A.  Glad to hear you are doing well.  No longer taking air.  I stopped that a while ago.  Not sure what is going on but my anxiety is off the charts today.
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Avatar universal
Day 13  (Wed)

Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:40:27 -0500
Did you get any spasms last night??

Nope, but I'm starting to grow boobs from all the meds...

Do you remember when I was staying with you in CT?  Kinda moved in for a while, and got a job at the super market...  You guys all worked, and the kids were in school, and I got let go after only like a week or two; apparently the person who I replaced wanted their job back, so I was let go to accommodate that person...  So, I hung out in the house all day bored, and you had a gigantic Tupperware container full of pills...  I had some pain issue, so you gave me a darvocet one night, which Les took for her periods or something (she was 12 y/o)...  Well, I found myself a big old cookie jar apparently, and use to sneak a 'fun' pill occasionally outta boredom...  You somehow figured-out that I had been going into the Tupperware container, and you told me "Scott, you better be careful with which pills you're taking because you may take my hormone pills and start growing boobs"..........


   That must've been when I first discovered that some prescription drugs could make you feel gooood.....  15-16  y/o?

So is it my fault now??  I don't know what you took??  

You can't be growing boobs??

I might not survive this....

Of course it's NOT your fault, absolutely NOT!!!

It's not that I got addicted to anything back then, not at all.  My doctors addicted me, when I was an older adult, starting before the back surgery...  IF I really am even addicted.

PS
LOL, I am not growing boobs, I was joking......    

Day 14 (Thur)

Saw the doc today.  Reminded him that I am Type-A personality, he sad “really, how Type-A are you” (jokingly) whereas I was handing him spreadsheets, that I composed on MS Excel, regarding how I’ve been taking the percs for the past 2 weeks, and how I intend to take them for the following 2 weeks…  He was okay that I weaned down quicker than anticipated or planned, but also told me to slow down…  He said whereas I couldn’t do the 6 hr intervals – there’s definitely psychological addiction…  So, 25 mg per day, 5 mg per dose, 5 times a day for the next 2 weeks.  (I’m still only gonna do 20 mg just as I have been doing for well over a week now)…

On the upside, he did tell me that his nurse was wicked wrong about the Gabapentin, we can go way past 1200 mgs per day – he told me to bump it up from 900mg per day to 1200mg (I told him that the 600 mg per day wasn’t doing squat, so I bumped it up to 900), and if necessary to take 600 mg at a whack… But, we can go way higher if warranted… And, he does believe that once we get up to the appropriate amount per dose, and per day, that it will help some of my pain…  < The nerve pain…  But, he did remind me that I have other issues that cause additional pain (i.e. degenerative arthritis all around my spine, bone spurs all over my spine, stenosis, herniated disk, blah blah)….

People on the blogs told me to ask him for Clonidine, though its blood-pressure medication; it has been also used for 20 yrs per my doc, for opiate withdrawal as well.  He said that I shouldn’t take it if my blood pressure is normal because it will lower my blood pressure…  However, when he checked my blood pressure (then his own, LOL) mine was very high:  160/120+, so he said he’d prefer that I go to my Internist to get the clonidine… He said my elevated blood pressure is the norm because my body is suffering from withdrawal, from the lesser amount of daily opiates…  But, that it is wicked high, too high, but not stroke-levels… (I’ll make an appt w/my Internist)… That’s about all she wrote…

Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:57:17 -0500
Jesus I am concerned about your blood pressure, I know he said that comes with withdrawal from opiates but it can provoke a serious problem.

Make sure you see primary asap....

I am beginning to think that a type A personality is a pain in the ***....

Signed,
The PITA (you are absolutely correct)

He reminded me today how I drove him nuts for almost 1 yr prior to my surgery:  researching everything online, etc - coming in with lists of questions, made him hook me up with one of his patients who had similar surgery, got 2 other surgeon's opinions, etc...  Then kept rescheduling the surgery for one reason or another, then I was NOT a very good patient in the Hospital neither....

Subject: Type-A personality
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:13:18 -0500
Since researchers started studying Type A personality over 50 years ago, it’s become a household term. Most people now know that Type A personality characteristics have something to do with being competitive and work-obsessed, and can bring an increased risk of health problems, but it’s not always understood exactly what traits constitute “Type A Behavior”, or exactly how these traits impact health and well-being. This article explains more about “Type A”, how it affects people, and how to deal with stress if you have a “Type A Personality”, or if you work closely with someone who does!
Traits of Type A Behavior
Key Characteristics:

While the term “Type A” is thrown around often, it’s not always fully known what specific characteristics make up “Type A” personality, even among experts. For example, some people, the term applies to rude and impatient people. Others see workaholics as “Type A”. Many see competitiveness as the main characteristic. According to research, the following characteristics are the hallmark characteristics of Type A Behavior (TAB):

· Time Urgency and Impatience, as demonstrated by people who, among other things, get frustrated while waiting in line, interrupt others often, walk or talk at a rapid pace, and are always painfully aware of the time and how little of it they have to spare.
· Free-Floating Hostility or Aggressiveness, which shows up as impatience, rudeness, being easily upset over small things, or ‘having a short fuse’, for example.

Additionally, Type A behavior often includes:
· Competitiveness
· Strong Achievement-Orientation
· Certain Physical Characteristics That Result From Stress and Type A Behavior Over Years
Just made an Appt w/my Internist for Monday, for the high blood-pressure issue…
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Avatar universal
Actually a lot better since starting the gabapentin, I don't think that it's really helping the pain tho.  I'm still taking 20 mg of percs tho. However, the doc inteded to wean me down to 25 mg starting Friday, and I'm already down to 20.  The cravings are not bad at all anymore, but I'm still taking 4, 5 mg per day...  Time will tell when I'm down to 2 pills per day, or no pills per day, but I suppose the doc knows what he's doing and weaning slowly like this prob assists a lot with the habit?  How are you doing?  Still taking 1/4 mg of air...  LOL
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1831920 tn?1320857757
How are you doing?
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Avatar universal
Day 11  (Mon)
The devil pills definitely do not work as well as they did when I first started taking them, but they still dull the pain...  The pain level has been stable actually, 5-6 typically, sometimes elevates as it normally does:  1st thing in the AM, later in the day, and of course it spikes when I do anything too aggressive: like painting...  I started taking the gabapentin last night, only have taken 2 so far - last night and this morning, so by Thur when I see the doc I should have an idea whether they're helping or not... I am soooooo sick of thinking & talking about the stupid percs as I'm sure you're sick of hearing about them!  I cannot wait until this is done once & for all!

5:00 PM, only have taken 5 mg twice so far:  9AM & 3 PM, no real cravings to speak of yet…  The Gabapentin is not really helping the pain as I originally thought, but there’s room to double the strength if warranted up to 1200 mg per day… Not sure if this feeling I have is from the gabapentin or withdrawal, but it’s doable…  Just wish the pain would subside a little.

I found a ‘story’ (fiction) today while rifling thru my puter, buried in the wrong file folder.  I either started writing it when I was housebound after the back surgery or during the chemo…  I think that I’ll pick up my writer’s pen again, sort of speak, and see where my story leads…  Will assist with keeping my mind busy as well!!

I've gotta say that I am proud of myself so far today, only taking a total of 10 mg oxy all day!  woo-hoo
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Avatar universal
Mitch,  kudos getting off that kind of dependacy (240 mg a day)?!  Whoa!!
I actually only started the gabapentin last night and another this AM, and I gotta say it does seem to help!  It's helping the pain some *unless I'm just having a good day), gives me energy, and seems to have taken away the percs craving....  Maybe it's all in my mind because of what you wrote, time will tell, but thanks!   Scott
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1831920 tn?1320857757
Percs are devil pills!
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Avatar universal
The devil pills definitely do not work as well as they did when I first started taking them, but they still dull the pain...  The pain level has been stable actually, 5-6 typically, sometimes elevates as it normally does:  1st thing in the AM, later in the day, and of course it spikes when I do anything too aggressive: like painting...  I started taking the gabapentin last night, only have taken 2 so far - last night and this morning, so by Thur when I see the doc I should have an idea whether they're helping or not... I am soooooo sick of thinking & talking about the stupid percs as I'm sure you're sick of hearing about them!  I cannot wait until this is done once & for all!
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Avatar universal
Where R Ü ???
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Avatar universal
You guys are awesome!  Margaret, thanks so much for your kind words and support.  I could NOT live on what Disability would pay + I can work... My doc did give me a script, which I've had filled, for Gabapentin.  I just haven't started taking it yet because I figured how will I know if it's working, if I'm still taking 30 mg of oxy...  I will ask him about Clonidine too.  No, they never take my vitals at the surgeons office, only my urine...  ô¿ô

Day 10  (Sun)
I got thru another day with NO vicodins!  I did take 3.5 pills yesterday though… It’s when I drink, when I’m bored, that I can justify taking a little extra, and I believe that’s when the buzz comes into play – when mixed with the booze…  I slept real well last night without a sleep aid.  I thought I had taken a xanax before bed, but it was still sitting on the dresser this AM, so I forgot to take it and still slept fine!!  Only got up to pee twice.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 06:44:53 –0500
I was kidding when I said you are taking to many pills.  I understand what you are doing and why.  You are in a hurry to get it done and over with.  I would be the same way.   LUV YA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, in a hurry, but not the main reason I jumped ahead to next week's plans early...  I could not stand the waiting to only take a pill every 6 hrs, especially the hours I chose (9AM, 3PM, 9PM)... I chose those hours to make it convenient for Claire & me whereas I have to schlep over to her house 3 times a day or whatever... So, yes I'm already doing what will happen anyway this coming end of week via the doc (effect Friday), but it was more because I was missing the frequency of taking a pill big time...  I don't understand how my body apparently is addicted to a drug that my mind doesn't knowingly get buzzed on... Unless it's ALL mental and not physical, or both...

So, now I have no problem only waiting the 3 hr in between taking a 1/2 pill...  Anyway, I'll need to prob bump back the frequency of taking them from every 3 hr to every 4-5 hr next...  That's when I'll know where I'm at, and I'll start taking the Gabapentin too for the pain.  I'll see what the doc thinks when I see him on Thur.  

It is gorgeous here today, going to be in the low 80s, sunny, very low humidity!  I intend to paint today at Michael's, after I go thru the want ads, but there's not much in there per usual... A job would REALLY help me with this!!  I'd be busy then and would not have time to think about a stupid pill...

Have a great day ALL!
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Avatar universal
Hi, Scott, I'm Margaret--pleased to meet you! You are a very good writer and can be a very funny one, too. But I can also feel that black emotional undercurrent in your writing as well. I know that things are hard for you, and I admire you so much for doing this. Do they take your vital signs at the surgeon's office? If your blood pressure's high, or even if it's normal, you are a good candidate for clonidine, the B/P med that helps with withdrawal, too. I'd be amazed if your doctor wouldn't give you some. I believe it is not too expensive, either, as it is an older drug. Have you also looked into disability benefits? I hope you will not be offended at the question; after everything you've gone through, you would certainly be justified if you wanted to go that route. You seem very smart and creative; maybe there coud be a way you could use the barter system for things like acupuncture, shiatsu, etc. like take care of their foo foo dogs or walk 'em, or some other kind of goods or service. That's what mankind did before money, and does to this day!
I wish you a blessed, comfortable night. Keep us posted!
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1831920 tn?1320857757
I know that place in Malibu - it looks awesome.  I think you should go on the TV show Intervention.  They sent someone there!
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Avatar universal
Subject: RE: Xmas gift idea
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 21:44:32 -0500

I'm still only technically taking the 3 pills per day that doc told me to wean down to for the next 2 weeks...  Total 30 mg per day, but instead of taking 10 mg every 6 hr or so (< that's the schedule I chose, not the doc - her never said - just said 'take only 3 a day at the same time every day, but different times than I had been'.  Instead, I'm already doing what he intends to start Next week anyway = I'm doing 4 X a day (5 mg, every 3 hr or so = 20 mg between 9AM thru 6PM) then I am taking my final pill at 9PM (as I explained thoroughly earlier) a whole 10 mg pill = TOTAL for day 30 mg (doc's orders for first 2 weeks)...  Next week, he said something like I'll go down to 5 mg dosages (I already am doing that effective a couple of days ago), but 5 times a day to equal 25 mg per day, for the following 2 weeks...  Apparently we'll go down 5 mg per day every 2 weeks.  This is obviously Why it takes 2 months t do this properly...  LYMI

Subject: Re: Xmas gift idea
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 19:51:33 –0500

How many pills did you take today??  I think it is too many.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 6:59 PM
Subject: RE: Xmas gift idea

Come with me, and you can get off the IB while I'm getting off the booze & pills, and we can work on our tans too...  LOL


Subject: RE: Xmas gift idea
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 18:58:15 -0500

LOL ~ I know, but I think it may help...  Tennis, massages, acupuncture, etc, etc,....  No??

Subject: Re: Xmas gift idea
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 18:54:19 -0500

That is a vacation...

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 12:23 PM
Subject: Xmas gift idea

For Christmas, I think that you should send me here::: http://www.passagesmalibu.com/  
Check it out and look at all the pics of the facility (home page) it changes by itself, or should...

It's probably $10,000 per day!

Helpful - 0
1831920 tn?1320857757
I took Neurontin too on a previous detox not the last one.  Not sure why the Clonidine works but believe me it does.  I have a book on addiction by a well known addiction specialist and the first thing he does for opiate addiction is give high doses of vitamin C and prescribe Clonidine.  Ask your doc for .3 mg so that you can break it in half if necessary and it will save you money.  I took it at night because it made me sleepy.

LOL - 1/4 of a vic is like taking air!  I think I am lucky.  I was very careful about my use.  I was afraid to take more than 4 a day.  Towards the end I only took about 2 - 3 a day.
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Avatar universal
Ask your doc about Gabapentin (Neurontin), it helped me get off of a 240mg/day Oxycodone addiction in 4 days (still had minor withdrawals symptoms but it was easily manageable)... The great thing about that stuff is that it's very cheap and it works well if taken right, so it won't be a huge expense for you.

Good luck!
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Avatar universal
LOL, not a baby elephant just yet - now that I am taking the percs more often, though lesser mg, my appetite has calmed down for the time being...

I misuderstood about that drug, if it's for blood pressure, I wonder why it assists with opiate w/d.  I'll look it up... I thought it was a drug like suboxone, so my doc cannot prescribe that stuff.

Financially, I cannot afford accupuncture.  I've been told you have to every 2 weeks and it's $90 per session...  I agree that it must be legit, but haven't looke dinto any state funding for that.  I live in FL, and this state is a couple thousand years behind the times.

BTW, glad you're done with the vicodins!  I cannot even imagine tkaing a 1/4 of a 5mg anything...  That would be like taking air to me.  A 10 mg vicodin does nothing for my pain. But, that's me.  Thanks for chatting!
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1831920 tn?1320857757
Are you a baby elephant now?
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1831920 tn?1320857757
Clonidine is a blood pressure med so I dont know why your dr wouldn't be willing to prescribe it.  sounds like he wants to make your w/d as painless as possible.  one good thing.  sounds like you sleep like a rock!  I am jealous.

a lot of men just suck it up when it comes to depression.  i dont know what your money situation is but acupuncture could help you with your pain as well.  I thought it was great.  a lot of county drug rehab places where I live pay for it with state taxes so you know that there has to be some proof that is works.  no one would allow tax dollars to go to such a program unless it worked.  it was helpful to me.

Have you looked up the Thomas recipe?  bottom right hand corner of the page under Most Viewed health pages?  there may be some over the counter items to help you when you total stop the opiates.
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Avatar universal
As of a little over a week ago I had been taking 40 - 50 mg of oxycodone (percocet) per day as prescribed + ocassional hydrocodone in between...  I guess that I can ask the doc about Clonidine, but he doesn't seem too keen on prescribing those types of drugs...  No problem for him apparently prescribing the addicitve meds tho...  I'm not blaming him, he knew I needed help and I needed pain pills to function.  I tried everything else too:  months of PT, deep tissue massage, ESIs (not fun), etc and thee only thing that assisted was the pain meds... that's my next predicament surviving the daily pain without pain meds...  When I asked what the doc suggested I got over-the-counter to assist - he said "there's nothing over-the-counter that will help with your kind of nerve pain.  He did prescribe some nerve pill (Gabapentin), but I decided not to even try it until I have less percs in me, otherwise how will I know IF they're even working or not...

No, re: the depression issues.  I went that route approx 15 yr ago: anti depressants, anti anxiety meds, counceling, etc - it all was a bunch of crap in my opinion and the meds were just as crazy... So, no I keep it to myself tho a couple of my closest friends do know that I struggle with depression...

Yes, when I lost my job I started my own biz, so I care for foo-foo dogs both at their homes and my own own (I have a large fenced-in yard, so it's easy peasy). I am a dog lover too!
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1831920 tn?1320857757
Since you have a supportive dr can you ask him about prescribing Clonidine?  It helps with opiate withdrawal.They prescribe it in drug rehab  centers.  I also get up frequently at night to go to the bathroom it drives me crazy.  I have been clean since Oct. 8.  I weaned down to 1/4 of a 5 mg. vicodin pill.  But I did it really fast.

Are you still eating everything in sight?  Your analogy about being a fat elephant was really funny.

I am worried about your depression.  Do you do anything for it - counseling, yoga, acupuncture, read books, supportive friends and family?

Do you mind if I ask what you do with puppies?  Is that a job that you have?  I love puppies.
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Avatar universal
Day 8  (Fri)
Slept fine last night, except woke up sev times to urinate… Pain level is tolerable (5+) this AM even with this frigid cold weather that came in last night, and considering how much agony I was in yesterday after all that painting!  My house was freezing when I woke up!!  New doggies here (2 brother shiatsus).  Well, it may not be how the doc prescribed this to happen, but it wasn’t working for me his way and I was sneaking approx 2 / 7.5 vicodins a day, in between the percs, since Day 1 of this weaning – even tho some days I only took 2 percs VS the 3 prescribed 10 mg (2 percs 10 mg + 2 vicodin 7.5)… So, yesterday I took 5-6 times, ½ pills though (5 mg), so it’s basically where the doc intends to put me next week: 5 pills per day, but 5 mg, same strength as I’m already doing effective yesterday (1 wk early).  The one thing I am super proud of, as sick as this would sound to someone else – I did NOT take any vicodin yesterday – 1st day since I started to wean.  The 6 hr intervals between the pills as doc prescribed was killing me, and I was in agony…  Lets see what today will bring… Going out for the day, so that will assist with keeping me busy.
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Avatar universal
Day 7  (Thur)
I slept okay last night without the assist of a sleep aid, but I was up 10 times peeing… Not sure if this is from the pills as stated above, or something else like old age and a enlarged prostate, though my prostate exam came back fine less than 1 yr ago… I am hoping that I wean off, my habitual peeing will get back to normal…

Okay, lets start this game over again TODAY whereas I’ve wasted the first week by effing up.  I did not take my 9 PM pill last night, but I took plenty enough painkillers yesterday & last evening.  My real problem is that I am unmotivated to keep busy, and I MUST keep busy constantly.  Struggling with my depression issues and now more guilt and denial and “tomorrow is another day” attitude, and fibbing to my confidants certainly is complicating trying to wean properly, and is killing me… Not sure where/how I lost the drive that I initially had regarding quitting this correctly…  I am a sneak and a liar (the 2 traits I most despise in a person), I’ve been telling most everyone that all is A-ok…  RIGHT!!  No, it is NOT!!

I woke up around 8:00, but stayed in bed until 8:30.  I took only ½ a perc this AM around 9:00.  My goal is to stick to the 3 percs (30 mg) a day as prescribed NOW (no more vicodin too), but I will split up the perc dosages in half and take them more often, so that I do not have as long of intervals without (6 hr in-between without a pill was making me nuts)…  Probably NOT a good idea to do it this way, but we shall see… My pain level has been tolerable the past couple of days, but why wouldn’t it be with all the pain meds I’m taking.  I’ve got to keep busy today!  Got to get my butt over to Michael’s house today and do some more painting at least… Maybe take the pup for a walk too.  2 new dog clients coming this evening, so that will assist too with keeping me busy for the weekend. I should also have this computer permanently removed from the building as well, I spend way too much time sitting in fornt of this thing, while watching TV and avoiding life, and avoiding reality... I need to make a life for myself opiate-free, and find a way to deal with my chronic pain… I had / have good intentions, but can’t seem to get outta my own way and make it happen...

3:30 PM, well at least I had a somewhat productive day: spent 4+ hr at Michael’s today: painting one accent wall due to all the prep work and tiny spaces that I had to get to, around the multiple windows and a slider…  I think it looks awesome, will see what he thinks when he gets home from work.  Was suppose to have a 2nd & 3rd treatment, but I think the outcome would have been way overkill (copper metallic)…  I am in effin agony though; my back is killing me, pain level::: back 8, hips 8, buttocks and backs of legs 8… < UGH – However, I have stuck to my 2 pills technically AND NO vicodin…  I took ½ a 10 mg perc around 9:00 (so, 5 mg), ½ around 12:30 (5 mg), ½ around 3:00 (5 mg), and just took another ½ (5 mg) totaling only 2 for the day (20 mg), which is exactly where I’m suppose to be regarding the mgs, tho I messed with the amount of doses by cutting the mg in 1/2… Whatever it takes at this point, I say… But, NO vicodin too!!
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Avatar universal
Day 6  (Wed)
Beating myself up isn’t helping neither.  I cannot seem to get the balls to also turnover to Claire the Vicodin bottle I have in the house.  Originally, I thought, it would just be there in case I need them some day – well, like a druggy that I apparently am, I cannot stay away from the bottle in between my percs dosages…  The newest thing is Claire now gives me my last pill for the day, and the morning pill, at night.  What I have been doing is saving the night pill for morning, and then splitting up the morning pill late morning/early afternoon to hold me over until the 3:00 dosage.  I am also adding to the mix with (7.5 mg X 1 or 2 a day) of hydrocodone… I felt the need to drug-up for dinner out at Bone Fish…  I feel like such a fraud, and I feel extremely guilty for all the deception!
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