What specifically causes fatigue in opiate withdrawal?

[bkwrm679]

I saw somebody post on an old related thread a second ago, but figured I would ask something more specific. What I can't understand is this. One day I'm working out, running miles, etc. on opiates, and after detoxing I'm struggling to walk miles, energy is low - just feels like I'm walking in jello or something. I know this is normal, but I was wondering if anyone knew exactly why this occurs.

One reason I'm asking is that I'm going on a new anti-depressant that affects both serotonin levels and dopeminergic pathways. Think this will help? Anyone know any good technical sites on receptor level stuff that goes into specifics on energy levels after opiate detox?

Thanks for any suggestions.

[solebing]

You might want to have your liver enzymes tested.  Over taking synthetic opoids for long periods of time causes irreversible damage to the liver.  This is actually the cause of alot of overdoses in long term users because the liver becomes unresponsive to medication so the addict increases their dose.  When the liver tries to take on its other more important functions the liver becomes compensated and a lower dose will now be toxic to the body.  Why I mention this is because you cannot feel distress in the liver until it is too late and cirrhosis is present.  And still you might only feel a brief sharp pain in your side as if you were running and had a side cramp. Or after awhile you might notice other symptoms of liver damage like swollen ankles or straighting of your achilles heel, ascetis, or juandice coloring.  These are the signs of end stage liver disease and if you make it that far and don't have a heart attack first, usually that happens first, it is too late and a transplant is around the corner.  One of our first indications this process has begun is fatigue or what is really alarming, is the opiods not working ANYMORE and not because of some stupid logic regarding "tolerance" or I'm not taking enough.  I have seen this happen to many times and usaully people ignore these first signs until it is too late. If they don't O.D. they end up regreting the damage they haft to live with forever or at best might take them years to reverse.  Some scientist say the liver is more complex than the brain because of all the necessary things it has to do for you to enjoy and live life.  Unlike the brain it is designed to take a punch and keep on kicking (actually resiliency is one of its amazing abilities!!), but like the brain when it is permnantly damaged you lose significant qualities of life.  Without either one you cannot live very long! With brain damage death comes swiftly and you are not aware of your suffering, but with liver damage death comes slowly and you suffer great loss of the quality of your life while you wait.  One pill doesn't kill people, how people use them kills people!!!  Knowledge is power, without it is like taking a sharp turn with no warning.        

[Emsily]

I don't even know how long it's really been since I've gotten a good high. I've been low on funds, and when I do manage to get my hands on something its a very low dose. Have been buying subutex from a dealer when I can afford it. But I feel like I'm prolonging the withdrawals at this point. I stopped taking opiates regularly early in July and now its almost September. I'm continuously exhausted, and unmotivated. I went to the doctor to make sure hormone levels and everything was normal, and they are. So... I know now that the reason for this chronic fatigue is because of withdrawal. I don't know that I can push through and make it to sobriety. I'm at the point where I'd do anything to feel better. The older posts helped some. Just wanted to share. Glad to know I'm not alone in this.

[nymng]

I feel your pain! I have 2  little boys that when  "m on pills I play like a 6 year old and now im on day 5 and I cant even play trains with them This wants me cry that I've done this to my little boys. Im going to fight through this thing just like you should. we are not alone out there.

[Mikesin]

I am 34 yrs old and I'm trying so hard to get off of these pills and I can't. Once I go through withdrawl I do anything and everything to find some money to get some. I got hooked on them only 4 years ago after my parents passed.  I was hooked for a year and a half and went to jail in 2011 for 9 months and the withdrawls was the worst but I was only on about 50mg perks a day. After I came home after a week my back went out and I relapsed on a 15mg perk and after I took that one I was dozing off like crazy. Guess brought  back the feeling and it's been over a year now and I'm up to taking over a 100-150mg a day. I came home and was living good right away. Everything seemed to fall in place now I lost my home and my fiancé and almost everything else. I have a 3 yr old I take care of every other week and I have her now but I'm going through withdrawls and it's so hard to take care of her going through this and she don't deserve this. I don't know what to do.

[VeganBoston]

I hope things are better for you. That was a heartbreaking read.

[VeganBoston]

I hope things are better for you. That was a heartbreaking read.

[Friendlyfascism]

Ugh. The liver thing made me wonder, but having been in rehab, EVERYONE gets fatigue.  That's why they'd push us so much.  You just have to literally take it task by task and replenish your natural enzymes. I used to clean like crazy because it felt so good afterward. If you can't walk outside, dance, do push ups, clean one area at a time in your home, and MAKE yourself take a shower every morning for circulation.  That was a huge thing for me.  Of course this is after the acute wds go away. If you smoke, fine, coffee, fine, but please balance it with a good schedule that includes taking care of yourself (which mentally makes you feel much better and goes a long way) you have to readjust your reward center. That means do the work, then the reward.  Your body is sitting there waiting for the reward, that's what it's used to. Unfortunately you must be strong. There is a mind over matter element at some point. Your fine motor skills will be a little weird but this is also an excellent way to return them quicker. My writing was terrible for weeks and I'd doze off during lectures. I'd say the third week (roughly 21 days to retrain your brain to a new way of doing something) and I was stronger mentally and physically.  I wanted to do the things I was used to. Stretching is a good beginning step. You will get on your feet much more quickly, just be proud of yourself and tell yourself you are ******* unstopple, repeat it in your head.  It does get better. I swear to you.  The harder you work at this, the sooner the recovery. And I know it is not easy, you have my sympathy. It's hard to be your own drill sergeant. Try to get a friend to exercise and clean with you. Those endorphins feel really good and is time to start making your own. You are very courageous and I wish you the best. Sorry for the rushed post.

[Friendlyfascism]

Excuse me, by enzymes I meant endorphins.

[Emsily]

I don't even know how long it's really been since I've gotten a good high. I've been low on funds, and when I do manage to get my hands on something its a very low dose. Have been buying subutex from a dealer when I can afford it. But I feel like I'm prolonging the withdrawals at this point. I stopped taking opiates regularly early in July and now its almost September. I'm continuously exhausted, and unmotivated. I went to the doctor to make sure hormone levels and everything was normal, and they are. So... I know now that the reason for this chronic fatigue is because of withdrawal. I don't know that I can push through and make it to sobriety. I'm at the point where I'd do anything to feel better. The older posts helped some. Just wanted to share. Glad to know I'm not alone in this.

[littlebit667]

It is a great forum, but you are posting on old thread.  Go up to orange button-ask a question and copy and paste this to start a new thread. Good luck, I hope you get the help you need!!!

[Filmboomer]

Don't know if this forum is best...it's been a year and-a-half since precious post. But here goes:

I was on up to 300mg of oxycodone till VA put me on Bupenorphine (suboxone). I take 16mg a day and I am SO TIRED! Had my testosterone checked...it was fine.
Don't know if this forum is best...it's been a year and-a-half since precious post. But here goes:

I was on up to 300mg of oxycodone till VA put me on Bupenorphine (suboxone). I take 16mg a day and I am SO TIRED! Had my testosterone checked...it was fine.

I was taking the Bupenorphine in AM but switched to PM thinking the bupe's possible side effect of fatigue would happen at night, but no.

I'm still overly fatigued...NO energy AT ALL.
Energy drinks don't work.

Next step is to address the probable over-stimulation of adrenals.

Thoughts?
Anyone?
Before 2012?
Thomas


I was taking the Bupenorphine in AM but switched to PM thinking the bupe's possible side effect of fatigue would happen at night, but no.

I'm still overly fatigued...NO energy AT ALL.
Energy drinks don't work.

Next step is to address the probable over-stimulation of adrenals.

Thoughts?
Anyone?
Before 2012?
Thomas

[jersey_d]

there is also a couple of things i been taking to boost my energy levels as well. Thats my only problem too, is the energy thing. Ive done kicked the pills and all the withdrawals. One thing i been taking is Tyrosine. It helps your body want to produce L-Dopa. Another one is Phenylalanine. It helps do the same thing. L-Dopa is what makes your body produce dopamine.  And of course dopamine is what gives you motivation, adrenaline etc. And somthing else i just started taking a day ago is called DopaBean. It uses the seed extract from the velvet bean(Mucuna pruriens). It has %15 L-Dopa in it and they say L-Dopa is the only thing that can pass through the blood brain barrier in your brain that makes your body produce dopamine. Im on day 11, and I think im starting to get my energy back a little. I also take a multi-vitamin and some of the B-vitamins your body needs for energy. Hope this helps people a little bit. Trust me, I know what your going through. I was up to taking about 300 mg of oxycodone a day.

[whitie]

thanks worried. in a round about way, I think it sums it up. the human body is amazing how it adapts to its current environment or intake. when we look at how long we have tortured our minds and bodies.........its no wonder it takes a while to return to its correct state  and if it takes longer,than its all the more proof of the mistake of overinduldging,hence all the more reason to stay pill free.

[worried878]

Whites post above is very scientifically backed...the body will quit producing things that it receives from an outside source//the body is a fine tuned mechanism..it senses this...hence tapering off a steroid pack etc....the body needs time to kick in and realize those outside endorpins r no longer available..can take up to 3 mths to catch up..exercise produces tons of endorphins so often a person in wd will feel great after and during exercise...lots of otherways to increase them as well..there is info on in the health pages on dopamine and withdrawals...lots of good info there...time is the key..gotta give it some time

[whitie]

I read before that the body actually produces natural endorphins that are as strong as moriphine, in effect. when one takes opiates and or opioids(which sub is) for long periods of time ,the body quits naturally supplying the receptors, and other receptors are created and or used to handle the new supply that is huge for the system. when one quits the entire body and mind, cannot naturally handle the receptors current demand level, and it does take long, sometimes many months(depending on drug amount and length of use) to get your normal energy level back. its the last thing to get back to normal, as one can see in all the old threads. and its the only thing I have been waiting for to return back to normal, after 78 days or so.

[bkwrm679]

Got some good info on this from a Dr. - basically the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis is screwed up by drug use, and one thing that helps with this is an adrenal supplement. He recommended AdrenalPlus - my health food store didn't have it. I ended up picking up some Adrenal Optimizer. I took that, L-Glutamine, and L-Methionine and almost immediately it either helped (I've been terribly fatigued today - it's like I'm going backwards) or I got a placebo effect. Either way - worked for me :). Sipping on some Emergen-C now.

[bkwrm679]

Also meant to mention - I've detoxed off of suboxone before and didn't have this issue. I know buprenorphine is a partial-opiate agonist so I'm wondering if that was why - the opiate receptors just weren't used to as much stimulation - opiate receptor stimulation affects motivation, energy, etc. Maybe I'm going in the right direction here.